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Jihad Watch

Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

China-Vietnam border: Seven dead as Muslims seize guns from Vietnamese border guards and shoot at them

Apr 22, 2014 7:02 pm By Robert Spencer

ChinaVietnamborderThese were Uighurs from Xinjiang, who seized the guns and started shooting when they were refused entry into Vietnam. Were they enraged over not being allowed to escape oppression in China? One would think that if that were true, they might have found more positive ways to express their anger. Were they Islamic jihadis who were overcome with a case of Sudden Jihad Syndrome when they were refused entry? We may never know, since there is no international media outlet that is disposed to tell such stories fully and honestly.

“Seven killed in China-Vietnam border shootout,” by Stephen McDonell, Australia Network News, April 19 (thanks to The Religion of Peace):

A deadly gun battle along the China-Vietnam border has left seven people dead, including five Chinese migrants and two Vietnamese border guards.

According to local officials, a shootout erupted when Vietnamese border guards tried to turn back a group of Chinese citizens entering their country illegally.

In a statement, the Quang Ninh provincial government in Vietnam said a total of 16 Chinese nationals, including 10 men, four women and two children were detained after attempting to enter Vietnam.

While Vietnamese authorities were attempting to repatriate them, “some Chinese men in this group seized guns from Vietnamese border guards and shot at them”, the statement said.

The statement also said the firefight erupted despite efforts to calm the situation.

Details of the bloody clash remain scarce and it is unclear if the dead included Chinese women and children.

Vietnamese media has reported that the Chinese citizens were from the far Western Muslim Province of Xinjiang where human rights groups say there is persecution of local ethnic Uighurs.

The area has reported human trafficking and people smuggling cases, including the kidnapping of Vietnamese women forced to marry Chinese men and young boys being kidnapped for sale to rich childless Chinese couples.

Irregular migration from the Chinese side is unusual, with more Vietnamese migrants wanting to travel north to find work in large Chinese cities.

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Comments

  1. Peter Buckley says

    Apr 22, 2014 at 7:12 pm

    The Uighurs won’t be very happy about this:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10776023/China-on-course-to-become-worlds-most-Christian-nation-within-15-years.html

    • Mazo says

      Apr 22, 2014 at 9:00 pm

      I guarantee you that Uyghurs do not give a damn what the religion of the Han people is.

      Neither do Hui, in fact for the past 1,000 years, most Hui never proeslytize their religion to Han, most of the time conversion is only done for marriage.

      You should also understand, that China is not like the west. Many in the countryside are uneducated and do not understand logic and science. It would not be unbecoming for cult leaders like Hong Xiuquan to rise and create perversions of Christianity which could gain popularity.

      • Kepha says

        Apr 22, 2014 at 9:33 pm

        Mazo, as son-in-law to a Taiwanese 乡下姑娘 (country girl) and having had contact with country people across Asia, I frankly resent your statement that the “uneducated” country folk in China don’t understand logic and science at all. There’s a fair amount of science in knowing when to get your crops planted and harvested, how to care for a piece of hillside land, and how to raise poultry and animals. Maybe it isn’t learned from a university, and transmitted in dialect rather than in an official language, but there’s a lot of inherited wisdom about what can and cannot be done. Frankly, having seen how an Asian peasantry left to its own devices plants hillsides with fruit trees, tea, and suchlike rather than grain up to the watershed, I suspect that had Old Mao truly cared about and listened to the peasant masses in his country rather than having the blinkered Bourgeois intellectual’s point of view, you might have spared yourselves some of the famines of the ’50’s and ’60’s.

        • Mazo says

          Apr 22, 2014 at 9:43 pm

          Well you know how rural people from the interior are viewed by urban dwellers in Chinese culture, this is the same all over the world.

          I also know about those shaman in rural Taiwan who claim to be able to communicate with spirits, and many people seek their services, do people believe in that in the European countryside?

        • Terry says

          Apr 23, 2014 at 5:43 pm

          Well said.

      • Rod Nurthen says

        Apr 23, 2014 at 9:03 am

        Rod Nurthen I have got to know country Chinese. To call my friends uneducated shows ignorance. My Fiance’s parents may be so but as survivors of the long march and cultural revolutions they ensured their children would be better off.

      • gravenimage says

        Apr 24, 2014 at 10:10 pm

        Mazo wrote:

        I guarantee you that Uyghurs do not give a damn what the religion of the Han people is.
        ………………………….

        Well, this is true—these violent Mohammedans will consider them “filthy Kuffar” regardless..

        • Mazo says

          Apr 25, 2014 at 2:36 pm

          Using your rhetoric – the pious British Protestants consider Irish Catholic to be “filthy infidels”, so they oppressed the Irish and settled millions of Protestant British in Northern Ireland.

          The pious Catholic Spanish, who though the Basque to be “insufficiently Catholic” have engage in oppresion and murder of the Basque.

          See what happens when you put false labels on ethnic conflicts?

  2. Angemon says

    Apr 22, 2014 at 7:13 pm

    Inb4 Mazo jumps the gun and accuses JW of lying.

    • dumbledoresarmy says

      Apr 25, 2014 at 5:34 am

      And in so doing, the boggart – or should I call it a dementor? – projects.

      Its business here is to confuse, to obfuscate, to delay, to demoralise.

      And also, very often, in all sorts of sly ways, to try to divide or to play upon what it perceives or assumes to be existing divisions, to split the camp of the infidels.

      To get a sense of the sort of games this boggart may be trying to play with us, see here:

      http://defendthemodernworld.wordpress.com/2014/04/22/violence-jealousy-and-ignorance-more-tales-from-university/

      What the author there puts down to mere social ineptitude or ‘immaturity’, *I* see as something else much more sinister. The acting out of a programmed “will to destroy”.

      • Mazo says

        Apr 25, 2014 at 5:56 pm

        More off topic spam from Voldemort’s Army which has nothing to do with China or Vietnam.

        • Angemon says

          Apr 25, 2014 at 6:10 pm

          Lol @ Mazo accusing someone else of spamming off-topic content.

          Seems dumbledoresarmy was right on the money – “the boggart – or should I call it a dementor? – projects”

          Hey Mazo, do you condemn Indonesia’s invasion of East TImor and the atrocities committed by the Indonesian against the East Timorese? Yes or No question kid, no strings attached.

        • Mazo says

          Apr 25, 2014 at 6:16 pm

          Everyone should look at this sick, word twisting slander by Angemon.

          I have been making countless posts talking about pro-western Javanese-Indonesian war crimes and massacres against West Papuans, Acehnese, East Timorese, Communists, Islamists, and Chinese.

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/us-envoy-samantha-power-decries-religiously-motivated-violence-in-africa-doesnt-mention-jihad-in-nigeria/comment-page-1#comment-1033937

          Now he is humiliated because he falsely accused me of being Semeru (who is pro-Indonesia), so in order to cover his tracks, he pretends that I’m pro-Indonesia.

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/malaysia-obama-to-honor-islam-by-visiting-triumphal-mosque-built-on-site-of-church/comment-page-1#comment-1041639

        • Angemon says

          Apr 25, 2014 at 7:08 pm

          Mazo posted, with tears running down his face:

          “Everyone should look at this sick, word twisting slander by Angemon.”

          Awww, poor little Mazo pretends to be offended to avoid answering my question regarding if he condemns Indonesia’s invasion of East Timor and the atrocities committed against the East Timorese. Listen kid, where did i say you and Semeru are one and the same? I sometimes used your name interchangeably because you both spout the same nonsense, but that’s not saying you’re the same, is it? Because if it is then you accused everyone on this site of being the same person when you said that “ that all of you post steamloads of garbage trying to blame Islam for everything.”

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/malaysia-obama-to-honor-islam-by-visiting-triumphal-mosque-built-on-site-of-church/comment-page-1#comment-1041639

          A question: am i accusing you of being semeru on this topic? If i’m not, why are you bringing it up here? Suspicious, very suspicious…

          “Now he is humiliated because he falsely accused me of being Semeru (who is pro-Indonesia), so in order to cover his tracks, he pretends that I’m pro-Indonesia.”

          LOL! Where did i accused you of being Semeru? Here’s the thing: this is the second topic i’ve seen you lying by saying i accused you of being Semeru. This is the second topic where i search for “Mazo/Semeru” and “Semeru/Mazo” and i get 0 matches, meaning this is the second topic where you lie about something that’s not even taking place there.

          But here’s a question for you: You claim your POV is different from Semeru (who according to you is pro-Indonesia), so why are you quoting him to answer a question regarding Indonesia?

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/malaysia-obama-to-honor-islam-by-visiting-triumphal-mosque-built-on-site-of-church/comment-page-1#comment-1041578

          Here’s the question i’ve made you and Semeru several times. It’s a simple Yes or No question: do you condemn Indonesia’s invasion of East Timor and the attempted genocide of the East Timorese by the Indonesians? I still haven’t got an answer from any of you.

        • Mazo says

          Apr 25, 2014 at 7:47 pm

          The lies from Angemon just keep piling on.

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/interfaith-outreach-in-malaysia-judge-says-huge-hindu-buddhist-statues-an-affront-to-islam/comment-page-1#comment-1037526

          Angemon
          April 17, 2014 at 2:41 pm
          I’m not the one making the claim, Semeru/Mazo [b]is.[/b] I’m just calling [b]him[/b] out on that.

          Reply

          I didn’t know you could refer to two people in the singular third person.

          And quoting a factual statement by Semeru doesn’t mean we have the same POV on Indonesia’s invasion. Semeru said that to show that Indonesia is a multi religious country with Christians in its top military ranks, and I pointed out that is has nothing to with Islam.

        • Angemon says

          Apr 25, 2014 at 8:40 pm

          The lying Mazo posted:

          “The lies from Angemon just keep piling on.

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/interfaith-outreach-in-malaysia-judge-says-huge-hindu-buddhist-statues-an-affront-to-islam/comment-page-1#comment-1037526

          Angemon
          April 17, 2014 at 2:41 pm
          I’m not the one making the claim, Semeru/Mazo [b]is.[/b] I’m just calling [b]him[/b] out on that.

          Reply

          I didn’t know you could refer to two people in the singular third person.”

          Really? That’s the whole basis for your “WHAMMM! WHAMMM” ANGEMON IS BEING A BIG MEANY TO ME!!” attempt to play victim? I wasn’t sure which one of you posted what i was replying to and i didn’t bother to go check, since both of you spout the same nonsense. Hence, “I’m not the one making the claim, Semeru/Mazo is. I’m just calling him out on that”. Now, if i had said “I’m not the one making the claim, the user hiding behind two different accounts, Semeru and Mazo, is. I’m just calling him out on that” you might have had a point. But the way things are, you just sound like a paranoid mad man, a poor man’s version of John Nash.

          “And quoting a factual statement by Semeru doesn’t mean we have the same POV on Indonesia’s invasion. Semeru said that to show that Indonesia is a multi religious country with Christians in its top military ranks, and I pointed out that is has nothing to with Islam.”

          More lies from Mazo. What a surprise. Semeru was quite clear on what he said: he tried to pin all the responsibility of the Indonesian invasion of East Timor on christians, just like he does when he says that the atrocities against the East Timorese were committed by East Timorese Christian militias. And you’re saying that’s a factual statement. And despite that, you claim your POV has nothing to do with Semeru’s POV, and you whine because i used your names interchangeably on a handful of occasions.

          Anyway, my question still stands. It’s a simple Yes or No question: do you condemn Indonesia’s invasion of East Timor and the attempted genocide of the East Timorese by the Indonesians? Or do you prefer to lie and pretend i’m going around saying that you and semeru are one and the same? Because i’ve asked both of you this simple Yes or No question and none of you answered. Both preferred to lie and accuse me of things i never did. Which tells a lot about your characters, really.

        • Angemon says

          Apr 25, 2014 at 8:47 pm

          Lol, Mazo’s despair to avoid my question would be hilarious if it weren’t so pathetic.

          “I didn’t know you could refer to two people in the singular third person.”

          You moron, if only one of you said that why should i have used the plural?

          My question still stands. It’s a simple Yes or No question: do you condemn Indonesia’s invasion of East Timor and the attempted genocide of the East Timorese by the Indonesians? Or do you prefer to lie and pretend i’m going around saying that you and semeru are one and the same? Because i’ve asked both of you this simple Yes or No question and none of you answered. Both preferred to lie and accuse me of things i never did. Which tells a lot about your characters, really.

        • Angemon says

          Apr 25, 2014 at 9:15 pm

          Notice the obfuscation and dishonesty emanating from Mazo. I’ve asked him several times the following Yes or No question: Do you condemn the Indonesian invasion of East Timor and the atrocities committed against the East Timorese? Not only Mazo refused to answer, he also stated i’m somehow trying to blame everything on islam, even though islam wasn’t mentioned directly or indirectly on the question. Not only that, he needed to twist my words in order to keep pretending i said “Mazo and Semeru are two accounts from the same user”. Like i said, Mazo and Semeru have given me very similar responses on the Indonesian invasion of East Timor subject, so i sometimes used their names interchangeably, or even lumped them together on a couple of occasions, which is not the same as saying “Mazo and Semeru are two accounts from the same user”.

          But according to Mazo logic, saying that one of them said one thing is the same as saying “Mazo and Semeru are two accounts from the same user”, even though only one of them said said thing and therefore i’d be lying if i used the plural to say both said it. Seems like honesty is to Mazo waht sunlight is to vampires.

          And even if i was saying “Mazo and Semeru are two accounts from the same user” that was irrelevant to the fact at hand: Mazo never replied to this simple Yes or No question: Do you, Mazo, condemn the Indonesian invasion of East Timor and the atrocities committed against the East Timorese?

          Now watch as Mazo once again dodges the question and accuses me of lying, like he’s been doing for quite some time.

        • Angemon says

          Apr 25, 2014 at 9:27 pm

          Just a quick P.S. to my last comment. The comment that Mazo claims to be me saying that Mazo and Semeru are one and the same? That’s over a week old, and he never had any problems with it until i started asking him if he condemned Indonesia’s invasion of East Timor and the atrocities committed against the East Timorese. Curious timing, wouldn’t you agree?

      • Angemon says

        Apr 25, 2014 at 8:46 pm

        Lol, Mazo’s despair to avoid my question would be hilarious if it weren’t so pathetic.

        “I didn’t know you could refer to two people in the singular third person.”

        You moron, if only one of you said that why should i have used the plural?

        My question still stands. It’s a simple Yes or No question: do you condemn Indonesia’s invasion of East Timor and the attempted genocide of the East Timorese by the Indonesians? Or do you prefer to lie and pretend i’m going around saying that you and semeru are one and the same? Because i’ve asked both of you this simple Yes or No question and none of you answered. Both preferred to lie and accuse me of things i never did. Which tells a lot about your characters, really.

        • Mazo says

          Apr 26, 2014 at 1:23 am

          I made my views about Indonesian atrocities in East Timor very clear, I don’t accept diktats from you. Go ask other people who actually understand the English language, like Kepha, what he thinks my views on Indonesia in East Timor are.

          You are a liar, you claimed that you didn’t link Islam to East Timor, which you did here.

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/03/philippines-muslims-celebrate-milfs-peace-with-government-christians-at-site-of-jihad-massacre-less-excited/comment-page-1#comment-1031382

          Angemon
          April 2, 2014 at 10:14 am
          Mazo needs to pick a story and stick with it. First the invasion of East-Timor and the genocide of its inhabitants was the work of a single christian general, then the US were behind it. There’s a common element on his fantasy stories: the islamic government of Indonesia had no responsibility whatsoever in the invasion of East-Timor and the genocide of its native people, according to him.

          Mazo
          April 2, 2014 at 3:04 pm
          And here comes angemon, deliberately ignoring the fact that Indonesia is a Javanese dominated country, not an Islamic state.

          Acehnese MUSLIMS fought alongside East Timorese and Papuans against Javanese Indonesian colonists. The Moro Muslims were also allied to them through Gaddafi’s Mathaba.

          The Javanese used the transmigration program to benefit themselves and closely culturally and ethnically related peoples to Javanese like Balinese Hindus. They discrimnated against ALL non-Javanese, whether Muslim or not.

          America backed Suharto’s dictatorship in Indonesia and allowed the Indonesians to take East Timor and West Papua because of their anti-communism, while it was Gaddafi, Islamist Acehnese, and Communist insurgents from the Phiippines who supported East Timorese and West Papaun rebels.

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/03/philippines-muslims-celebrate-milfs-peace-with-government-christians-at-site-of-jihad-massacre-less-excited/comment-page-1#comment-1031297

          Mazo
          April 2, 2014 at 4:19 am
          Massive liar DDA ignores the fact that Muslim Acehnese and Muslim Arab Libyans supported East Timor against Indonesia, and the Muslim Moros in the MNLF were also allied to the Acehnese and Timorese in Gaddafi’s Al-Mathaba organization.

          In fact the Muslim Moro mnlf website, displays a book by Noam Chomsky on Indonesian atrocities against East Timroese which the west was ignoring since Indonesia was their ally, in their list of recommended reading books.

          Also DDA ignores the fact that Muslim Arab East Timorese leader Mari Alkatiri objected to Australia’s theft of their natural gas, and oriented East Timor towards China (another people you hate besides Muslims).

          And the Javanese ruling class of Indonesia settled Hindu Balinese and Catholic Javanese on East Timorese land, in addition to settling Muslim Javanese on Muslim Acehnese land and Muslim Madurese on Muslim Malay land, causing both the Acehnese and Malays to lash out in anger at the settlers.

          Many Muslims in China have also been followers of Confucius to this day.

          I challenge you to drop all of the religious BS just for one second, and look at these conflicts drom a neutral perspective.

          You might just realize that you held the wrong opinions for decades but it would be worth coming to terms with the truth.

          I already debunked your blatant lies about Thailand annexing Pattani during a war with Burma, Burma was under British rule in 1909 when Thailand annexed Pattani

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/02/indonesia-armed-muslim-mob-blocks-construction-of-church/comment-page-1#comment-1013083

          Although from what I see here, some of you are in such self denial that you will continue to repeat such lies after they get debunked right in your face.

        • Angemon says

          Apr 26, 2014 at 5:13 am

          Lol! More lies from Mazo!

          Here’s how i finished my last post:

          “Now watch as Mazo once again dodges the question and accuses me of lying, like he’s been doing for quite some time.”

          What’s on Mazo’s second paragraph?

          “You are a liar”
          XD!

          His MO is pathetically simple. It’s not working, but kudos for trying.

          “I made my views about Indonesian atrocities in East Timor very clear, I don’t accept diktats from you.”

          No, you didn’t. I asked you several times a very easy to answer question: Do you condemn Indonesia’s invasion of East Timor and the atrocities committed against the East Timorese? Not only you refuse to answer that, you’ve been constantly lying about what i did and said. Why? Well, to draw attention away from what i’ve asked you. It’s obvious that you can’t bring yourself to condemn Indonesia’s actions in East Timor because Indonesia is a muslim majority country. I’ve already exposed your religious bigotry:

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/indonesia-thousands-at-anti-shia-alliance-event-call-for-jihad-against-shiites/comment-page-1#comment-1040507

          “Once again, a good example of Mazo’s dishonesty. When i said “Indonesia invaded East Timor” Mazo replied i was “ lying when trying to link Islam to the conflict“, even though i only said that Indonesia invaded East Timor, which is, well, a fact. But when he tried to defend Indonesia, he pointed out that some of the generals involved were Christians, therefore trying to link a religion to the conflict.

          As if that wasn’t bad enough, twice he mentions the “Javanese oppressors”, going as far as mentioning “their brothers the Balinese Hindus” and how the “Muslim Achenese“suffered under them. But what religion were the Javanese? Well, most Javanese are muslims, a fact that Mazo choose not to mention, even though he mentioned that the Balinese were Hindus. So, by Mazo standards, when muslims are the oppressors religion doesn’t matter, but when muslims are being oppressed, even if by other muslims, religion matters.”

          “Go ask other people who actually understand the English language, like Kepha, what he thinks my views on Indonesia in East Timor are.”

          I’m not asking Kepha what Kepha thinks your views are, i’m asking you what your views are. I want to hear it from the horse’s mouth, not 3rd-party interpretations. Do you condemn Indonesia’s invasion of East TImor and the atrocities committed against the East Timorese? Yes or no kid, we’re all waiting for your reply.

          “You are a liar, you claimed that you didn’t link Islam to East Timor, which you did here.”

          LOL! I see the jumuah left you invigorated and eager to lie and lie and lie, like you’re some sort of Enegizer bunny of lying. Anyway, Mazo claims i don’t understand english then he goes to misunderstand what any 3-year-old child would get right. Here’s what i said:

          “Mazo needs to pick a story and stick with it. First the invasion of East-Timor and the genocide of its inhabitants was the work of a single christian general, then the US were behind it. There’s a common element on his fantasy stories: the islamic government of Indonesia had no responsibility whatsoever in the invasion of East-Timor and the genocide of its native people, according to him.”

          You moron, i’m saying you’re refusing to link the Indonesian government to the invasion of East Timor because Indonesia’s government is islamic. I’m linking your absurd defense of Indonesia with the majority religion of Indonesia, just like i did a couple of paragraphs above, when i exposed your religious bigotry again. If i was saying “the Indonesian invasion of East Timor was jihad” you might have had a point there. But how things stand you’re looking more and more sad, pathetic and desperate. Is my little Yes or No question driving you deeper into madness? Tough luck, i’m going to keep asking until i get a reply.

          Also notice, i made that statement almost a month ago. Once again, like with my previous statement he tried to twist, he only had problems with it after i started asking him if he condemned Indonesia’s invasion of East Timor and the atrocities committed against the East Timorese. Once again, curious timing, wouldn’t you agree?

          There you have it folks, now that i cleared up Mazo’s purposeful misunderstanding where i claimed i said “Mazo and Semeru are one and the same” Mazo comes and makes another idiotic assumption, trying to twist my words to fit a new lie. And yet, he accuses me of not understanding English. Typical projection. The more i ask him if he condemns what Indonesia did in East Timor the more he lies and makes unfounded personal attacks at me. Truth is to Mazo what sunlight is to vampires, so he needs to hide himself behind a dark curtain of lies and deceptions.

          Mazo, my question remains unanswered: Do you condemn Indonesia’s invasion of East TImor and the atrocities committed against the East Timorese? Yes or no kid, we’re all waiting for your reply.

        • Mazo says

          Apr 26, 2014 at 5:53 am

          I’m not going to answer a question from a liar who pretends that I didn’t make my views already clear.

          I listed the crimes of Indonesia’s pro-western dictatorship.

          Mazo
          April 26, 2014 at 5:44 am
          LMAO, vogon does not know what he is talking about, Dictator Suharto had an entire cohort of top ranking Christian Generals who implemented anti-Islamist policies, naming political Islam as a threat to Indonesia. One of these Generals, Syafei, said that a pious Muslim should never rule Indonesia, and he even went on anti-Islamist political tours, openly insulting Islam and the Qur’an and Syafei committed many massacres in East Timor.

          the top Christian General who invaded East Timor, General Moerdani, openly attacked Islamists and cracked down on pious Muslims in the military.

          Indonesia under Suharto was a pro-western, anti-Islamist, and anti-Communist country dominated by ethnic Javanese.

          Suharto’s regime butchered hundreds of thousands of Muslim Acehnese, East Timorese, West Papuans, Chinese, Darul Islam Islamists, and Communists, with the support of the West. The west supported his dictatorship and massacres.

          Australia and America supported Indonesia’s invasion and occupation of East Timor, labeling the East Timorese FRETILIN
          as “Communist”. The anti-Indonesian resistance FRETILIN had an Arab Muslim leader, Mari Alkatiri, who was close to China.

          It was Muammar Gaddafi of Libya who armed and trained
          Islamist Acehnese, animist and Christian East Timorese, and West Papuan separatists to fight the pro western Indonesian government.

          Mazo
          April 26, 2014 at 5:51 am
          Indonesia used non-Muslim Batak (animist or Christian) troops to fight Islamist Acehnese insurgents in Sumatra.

        • Angemon says

          Apr 26, 2014 at 6:06 am

          The infuriated Mazo posted

          “I’m not going to answer a question from a liar who pretends that I didn’t make my views already clear.”

          Thing is, i haven’t lied and you have yet to condemn the Indonesian invasion of East Timor.

          Once again, it’s a simple Yes or No question: do you condemn Indonesia’s invasion of East Timor and the attempted genocide of the East Timorese by the Indonesians?

        • Angemon says

          Apr 26, 2014 at 6:10 am

          The deceiver posted:

          “I listed the crimes of Indonesia’s pro-western dictatorship.”

          You posted that a few minutes ago. I’ve been asking you for says if you condemn the Indonesian invasion of East Timor and the atrocities committed against the East Timorese for days, so don’t try to pretend you answered my question (which you didn’t) a long time ago by pointing an unrelated post from a few minutes ago. More deception from Mazo – what a shocker!

          What’s it going to be Mazo: do you condemn Indonesia’s invasion of East Timor and the atrocities committed against the East Timorese? Yes or no?

        • Angemon says

          Apr 26, 2014 at 8:39 am

          I feel that Mazo and Semeru’s recent behaviour is intolerable, even going by their usual standards. While it’s one thing to refuse to condemn the actions of Indonesia in East Timor, trying to rewrite history by blaming christians alone (when someone brings up Indonesia and East Timor we get the same copy/pasted wall of text they use over and over and links to their own posts where they only point the finger at christians) and resorting to lies and personal attacks against other JWers to distract from said attempt of rewriting history is on another level.

          Not only Mazo and Semeru have brought nothing new or truthful to the discussion, but they also try to demonize anyone who disagrees with them, either by claiming that anyone who mentions Indonesia and East Timor is claming it was an act of jihad or by scrounging old posts from other users, purposefully twisting them and trying to play the victim, like Mazo did to me. He called me a liar on several occasions and refused to retract, even after being explained why he was wrong. Notice he failed to provide any sort of evidence to counter my rebuttal to the accusations he made about me claiming he and Semeru are one and the same and about me trying to claim Indonesia invaded East Timor because of islam, but he never retracted and/or apologized for them. Does that sound like the attitude of someone who’s willing to engage on a civilized discussion or the attitude of someone who’s willing to stoop as low as he can to silence a dissent opinion?

        • Mazo says

          Apr 27, 2014 at 11:19 pm

          My first comment ever on this issue was an attack on Indonesian war crimes

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/02/indonesia-armed-muslim-mob-blocks-construction-of-church/comment-page-1#comment-1012374

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/02/indonesia-armed-muslim-mob-blocks-construction-of-church/comment-page-1#comment-1012723

          Mazo
          February 23, 2014 at 2:54 pm
          The only sand thrower here is you. Libyan Arab Muslims and Acehnese Muslims supported West Papuan pagans and East Timorese Christians against the Javanese dominated Indonesian government. Indonesian repression of West Papuans and East Timorese and Acehnese has to do with Javanese supremacism, not Islam.

          Acehnese are native to Aceh, they are not immigrants there, and they want to rule it by their own rules. They have not invaded other people’s lands like the Dutch did when they invaded Aceh and annexed it into Indonesia.

          I listed Indonesian crimes numerous times and described them as repugnant.

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/us-envoy-samantha-power-decries-religiously-motivated-violence-in-africa-doesnt-mention-jihad-in-nigeria/comment-page-1#comment-1032866

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/us-envoy-samantha-power-decries-religiously-motivated-violence-in-africa-doesnt-mention-jihad-in-nigeria/comment-page-1#comment-1033277

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/us-envoy-samantha-power-decries-religiously-motivated-violence-in-africa-doesnt-mention-jihad-in-nigeria/comment-page-1#comment-1034055

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/03/philippines-muslims-celebrate-milfs-peace-with-government-christians-at-site-of-jihad-massacre-less-excited/comment-page-1#comment-1029281

          Mazo
          March 28, 2014 at 4:49 pm
          I’ve talked about this crap before, Indonesia and the Philippines were both backed by colonialist western countries against the Muslim Moros, Muslim Achenese, Animist and Christian East Timorese, Moluccans, and West Papuans, and these people all banded together with Gaddafi’s support to fight against Philippines and Indonesia.

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/02/indonesia-armed-muslim-mob-blocks-construction-of-church

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/02/philippines-frees-jihad-leader-to-make-peace-with-milf

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/03/philippines-muslims-celebrate-milfs-peace-with-government-christians-at-site-of-jihad-massacre-less-excited/comment-page-1#comment-1029689

          Mazo
          March 29, 2014 at 11:12 am
          Again, you express suprise that your western governments support dictatorial regimes like Suharto? America approved of Indonesia’s invasion of East Timor and annexation of Papua because Indonesia was strongly anti-communist during the Cold War.

          Gaddafi set up the World Mathaba Organization to coordinate weapons supplies to the Free Aceh Movement, East Timor FRETILIN, Free Papua Movement, and South Moluccan seperatists.

          The Secretary General of East Timor FRETILIN was an Arab Muslim, Mari Alkatiri, While the Indonesian General Leonardus Benjamin Moerdani, who invaded East Timor, was a Roman Catholic.

          Gaddafi appointed Hassan di Tiro, leader of the Muslim Free Aceh Movement, as head of Al-Mathaba. He coordinated weapons supplies to the Animists and Christians in Papua and Timor and rallied against what he called “Javanese colonialism”.

          Indonesia is dominated by the Javanese ethnic group. The Javanese settled their own people in Aceh, Papua, and Timor as part of the Transmigration program. The Javanese also allowed closely related peoples like the Balinese Hindus to benefit from the program, settling several thousand Balinese Hindus in East Timorese land.

          The Muslim Acehnese said they wouldn’t take any crap from the Javanese just because they were both Muslim, and Hassan di Tiro made it clear that it was not a religious, but a racial conflict with Javanese colonialists oppresing Acehnese Muslims, and East Timorese and West Papuan Christians and animists.

          In the transmigration program, Muslim Madurese were also settled in other parts of Indonesia like Borneo. This angered both Muslims Malays and Animist Dayaks in Borneo, so that in 1999, the Muslim Malays and Animist Dayaks joined together to massacre several thousand Muslim Madurese.

          Indonesian conflicts are overwhelmingly racial and not religious.

          While voicing pro-Moro and anti-Philippine POV, I noted that Indonesia supported the Philippines

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/02/philippines-frees-jihad-leader-to-make-peace-with-milf/comment-page-1#comment-1016083

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/02/philippines-frees-jihad-leader-to-make-peace-with-milf/comment-page-1#comment-1014210

          Mazo
          February 26, 2014 at 8:34 pm

          Indonesia is not an Islamic state. It is a Javanese dominated state. In the transmigration program, Javanese, Madurese, and Balinese benefited at the expense of Malay Muslims, Dayak animists, Moluccan and West Papuan animists and Christians. Malay Muslims and Dayaks both lashed out jointly against Madurese Muslim immigrants.

          Many of the Indonesian settlers on East Timor, were Balinese Hindus and Javanese Catholics. While the East Timorese FRETILIN separatists were led by Arab Muslim Mari Alkatiri.

        • Angemon says

          Apr 28, 2014 at 7:37 am

          Mazo posted:

          “My first comment ever on this issue was an attack on Indonesian war crimes. Right from the start I marked out my position against Indonesian atrocities.”

          If that were really the case, you should have no problem answering my question and condemning Indonesia for the invasion of East Timor and the atrocities committed against the East Timorese. Truth is, the core of your position (supposedly) against Indonesia is this:

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/us-envoy-samantha-power-decries-religiously-motivated-violence-in-africa-doesnt-mention-jihad-in-nigeria/comment-page-1#comment-1032866

          “The American government supported the Marcos dictatorship in the Philippines and Suharto dictatorship in Indonesia”

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/us-envoy-samantha-power-decries-religiously-motivated-violence-in-africa-doesnt-mention-jihad-in-nigeria/comment-page-1#comment-1033277

          “I love how gravenimage blatantly ignores the fact that the 2006 riots were incited by Australia to unseat Alkatiri because Alkatiri opposed Australia’s grab of East Timor’s gas field, and because Alkatiri was close to China.”

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/03/philippines-muslims-celebrate-milfs-peace-with-government-christians-at-site-of-jihad-massacre-less-excited/comment-page-1#comment-1029281

          “Indonesia and the Philippines were both backed by colonialist western countries”

          I see plenty of blame throwing on Western nations, but little about condemning Indonesia for its action in East Timor. C’mon, you really thought i wouldn’t check your links given your track record here? You lie, lie, and lie more so it’s no wonder your position regarding Indonesian atrocities is “westerns are responsible”.

          “I listed Indonesian crimes numerous times and described them as repugnant.”

          But you failed to condemn them when i asked you about it, and you engaged in personal attacks and the bringing of unrelated issues to dodge the question. It’s a simple Yes or No question: do you condemn Indonesia’s invasion of East Timor and the attempted genocide of the East Timorese by the Indonesians?

  3. Reality Check says

    Apr 22, 2014 at 7:17 pm

    “Vietnamese media has reported that the Chinese citizens were from the far Western Muslim Province of Xinjiang where human rights groups say there is persecution of local ethnic Uighurs.”

    Whenever Muslims are given a taste of their own medicine or just told to respect the law of the land, they claim religious persecution. Typical Muslim tactic. The real problem is the world is full of useful idiots who buy into their stories.

  4. Marco Polo says

    Apr 22, 2014 at 7:46 pm

    In a statement, the Quang Ninh provincial government in Vietnam said a total of 16 Chinese nationals, including 10 men, four women and two children were detained after attempting to enter Vietnam.

    …

    The [Southern China-Vietnam border] area has reported human trafficking and people smuggling cases, including the kidnapping of Vietnamese women forced to marry Chinese men and young boys being kidnapped for sale to rich childless Chinese couples.

    The KIDNAPPING of brides and children for sale in other parts of China has long been big business. Given that Islam was throughout its history closely associated with the slave trade, it would not be surprising if Uighurs and other Muslim groups from China were getting involved in slave raids.

    Local Notes: (1) Vietnam is about 2,500 miles from the Uighurs’ homeland in Vietnam. (2) The report notes that there were 10 adult men but only 4 women in the Uighur group.

    • Marco Polo says

      Apr 23, 2014 at 3:48 am

      CORRECTION

      Vietnam is about 2,500 miles from the Uighurs’ homeland in Xinjiang.

      COMMENT

      It is true – as noisily proclaimed below – that Uighurs or other Muslims might not relish Vietnamese cuisine with its heavy reliance on pork.

      However, Uighurs are famously persistent and shrewd as street vendors and business men. (Remember their forebears set up and ran the Silk Road as a multinational business venture more than 2000 years ago.)

      Kidnapped and enslaved women could certainly be used for sexual gratification, domestic and farm labor, industrial work, and, of course, sale as brides. China is a country with a massive shortage of women due to selective abortion and infanticide.

  5. Mazo says

    Apr 22, 2014 at 8:56 pm

    Many Uyghurs are involved in criminal activities, since they belong to an impovershied ethnic minority. And?

    This is normal in many countries, including the USA, where impovershed Mexicans (an ethnic minority) many who cannot speak English, engage in violent crimes like human trafficking, drug smuggling, extortion, murder and the usual.

    Their crime bosses of course can speak English but their henchmen are recruited from the lower class.

    I see no relevance of their religion to the Uyghur criminals actions.

    Secondly this has nothing to do with criminal activties anyway, these people were illegal immigrants who tried to jump the border into Vietnam, probably trying to migrate to a richer western country .

    Many Uyghurs commonly try to go to western countries via through southeast asian countries like Laos, they don’t go the shorter way (via central asia) because they will get caught easily by Chinese or Kazakh border guards.

    Uyghurs also do NOT buy Vietnamese women. Their culture and religion is too different and they probably view their food as disgusting. Its greedy Vietnamese men themselves who kidnap their own women and sell them to Han in China.

    • Marco Polo says

      Apr 23, 2014 at 4:13 am

      NICE TRY. However, “impoverished Mexicans” who “cannot speak English” are not an ethnic minority in the United States. Individuals matching this careful definition are illegal aliens who neither consider themselves American nor wish to be viewed as American.

      BACK TO CHINA: China has some 55 officially recognized non-Han “minority” populations most of whom are poor and socially disadvantaged. Indeed, non-Han minorities make up about one third of the population of Yunnan and Guangxi, the two provinces bordering Vietnam. Yet, mysteriously, it was Muslim Uighurs who traveled 2,500 miles from Xinjiang to perpetrate this atrocity, rather than the much more numerous local Yi, Zhuang, Bai, Miao etc. who happen to be non-Muslim.

      ABSOLUTELY NO CONNECTION TO ISLAM (OF COURSE): Sex slavery would by definition be un-Islamic and a betrayal of the fundamental principles of the Religion of Peace set out in the Holy Qur’an 4:24 as explained here: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/07/james-m-arlandson-slavery-in-the-quran-traditions-and-classical-law

      • Kepha says

        Apr 23, 2014 at 5:44 am

        @Marco:

        Mazo is right about Viet and Han men being the major culprits in trafficking in women and children–even if he has said some pretty unfair things about China’s rural population. There’s also a traffic in a new kind of indentured servitude operating from the Fuzhou area and feeding illegal immigration to the USA. These are all issues I dealt with while working with the US State Department.

        As for the motive in the assault on the Viet border guards, I leave the question open about whether it’s related to jihad or something migration-related or a mixture of the two.

        • Marco Polo says

          Apr 23, 2014 at 12:36 pm

          It is certainly true that “Viet and Han men [are] the major culprits in trafficking in women and children” in and between their respective countries. BTW, women also play a crucial supporting role in the kidnapping business.

          This, however, does not detract from the remarkable phenomenon of a group of Muslims (mostly men) from Xinjiang traveling 2,500 miles and causing a high-risk border incident.

          Equally, Mazo’s laborious misdirection cannot obscure the fact that Xinjiang’s Uighur’s have become significantly infected with supremacist Islam. A contributing factor is that U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell withdrew U.S. support for a modicum of independence for Xinjiang in the wake of 9/11. Previously, Uighurs were (and many still are) relaxed, beer-drinking Muslims, like their cousins in Ionian Turkey.

        • Mazo says

          Apr 23, 2014 at 2:34 pm

          Notice how Marco Polo paints a picture of deception, insinuating that less religious people are somehow more peaceful.

          Marco Polo also sheds zero light with his obsfucation, concentrating on the fact that Xinjiang is far away from southeast asia.

          1. The less religious Uyghurs are not drinking beer, they are shooting up heroin into themselves and selling their children to criminal gangs. Being less religious, they engage in self destructive behavior.

          The reason Uyghurs in northern Xinjiang are less religious, is because their ancestors were transplants who were relocated by the Qing government from the heavily religious southern Xinjiang and esestablished in the non-Muslim Dzungaria where there was no established Ulama and institutions.

          The Uyghurs in Northern Xinjiang were also influenced by the Soviets, some gave their children Russian names, and in 1944-1946, the Soviet Union supported these secularist Uyghur rebels in Northern Xinjiang to establish the Second East Turkestan Republic.

          These secularist Uyghur rebels then promptly committed ethnic cleansing and mass murder of the local Chinese population, with help from the Soviets. But that never gets mentioned because it isn’t conducive to their propaganda.

          In Turkey, many secularist of the “beer drinking” Turks as Marco Polo calls them from western Turkey are ultra nationalist racist bigots who hate Kurds and Armenians, I talked to people who met them in Europe.

          The Hui, Salar, and Dongxiang in Gansu, Ningxia and Qinghai are heavily religious, some are fanatical, they are all Muslims, and there is not a single terrorist form them nor any separatist violence from there.

          2. illegal human trafficking routes.

          The reason why ethnic minorities in provinces bordering Vietnam aren’t hopping the border is because #1 they can’t claim persecution, so western countries will not let them in, #2 the exact same minorities (Zhuang and Miao) also live in Vietnam as well, where they are known as Nung and Meo, so if the ones from China jump the border into Vietnam and start claiming persecution, one will wonder why the local Nung and Meo aren’t also trying to leave Vietnam if its such a nice place for them to live that their brothers from China are leaving to go there.

          Uyghurs cannot leave via central asia because the geography is too dangerous and security is tighter. They will either freeze to death while trying to hop the border into Central asia or get arrested or killed by Kazakh and Kyrgyz border guards. There was a shootout with Kyrgyz border guards and Uyghurs earlier this year.

          On the other hand, there is an established route of human trafficking and asylum seekrs in southeast asian countries which North Koreans also use to get to South Korea, after the North Koreans cross into China, they go down to Laos or Cambodia and apply for asylum in South Korea.

          Now Marco Polo is going to ask, why are those North Koreans crossing over directly to South Korea instead of going hundreds of miles to southeast asia?

      • Marco Polo says

        Apr 25, 2014 at 3:13 am

        The less religious [Uighurs] are not drinking beer, they are shooting up heroin into themselves and selling their children to criminal gangs.

        Wow – talk about generalizations.

        2. illegal human trafficking routes.

        The reason why ethnic minorities in [Chinese] provinces bordering Vietnam aren’t hopping the border is because #1 they can’t claim persecution, so western countries will not let them in …

        So in other words, Muslim Uighurs successfully scam their way into “western countries” via Vietnam by claiming “persecution” after traveling 2,500 miles inside China and then traveling through a string of Asian countries, whereas local minorities in Southern China do not engage in that practice much.

        (Mazo’s reason #2 for the relative absence of non-Muslim “persecution” scams is hard to fathom – it would be quite logical for Chinese Zhuang to flee to Vietnam and then tell the Vietnamese (and post-Christian Westerners) that they were maltreated by evil Chinese Han. The fact that there are fellow Zhuang in Vietnam (known there as Nung, per Mazo) does not logically imply that the Zhuang in China are NOT being persecuted.)

      • Marco Polo says

        Apr 25, 2014 at 3:13 am

        The less religious [Uighurs] are not drinking beer, they are shooting up heroin into themselves and selling their children to criminal gangs.

        Wow – talk about generalizations.

        2. illegal human trafficking routes.

        The reason why ethnic minorities in [Chinese] provinces bordering Vietnam aren’t hopping the border is because #1 they can’t claim persecution, so western countries will not let them in …

        So in other words, Muslim Uighurs successfully scam their way into “western countries” via Vietnam by claiming “persecution” after traveling 2,500 miles inside China and then traveling through a string of Asian countries, whereas local minorities in Southern China do not engage in that practice much.

        (Mazo’s reason #2 for the relative absence of non-Muslim “persecution” scams is hard to fathom – it would be quite logical for Chinese Zhuang to flee to Vietnam and then tell the Vietnamese (and post-Christian Westerners) that they were maltreated by evil Chinese Han. The fact that there are fellow Zhuang in Vietnam (known there as Nung, per Mazo) does not logically imply that the Zhuang in China are NOT being persecuted.)

        • Mazo says

          Apr 25, 2014 at 12:48 pm

          Again, there are tons of Hui people living in Yunnan, and smaller communities of Hui living in every single Chinese province including Guangxi. In fact the well known Hui General Bai Chongxi was from Guangxi.

          Guangxi and Guangdong both border Vietnam. Not a single Hui jumps the border and apply for asylum in western countries.

          Neither do Muslim Salar from Qinghai, and neither do Muslim Dongxiang from Gansu, and they are all MUCH MORE religious than Uyghurs.

          Of all Muslims in China ONLY Uyghurs are jumping borders and applying for asylum. Because they have established communities in western countries like Germany where they can immigrate too.

          And if “Nung” get along fine in Vietnam with no problems at all with the Vietnamese (and the Vietnamese gov has been settling ethnic Kinh Viets on minority land), then the Zhuang wouldn’t apply for asylum in western countries, they would simply settle down and live in Vietnam instead.

  6. Davegreybeard says

    Apr 22, 2014 at 10:12 pm

    Hmmm, grabbed their guns and shot em with em, did they?

    NVA has gotten soft and careless, since I was there…

    • exsgtbrown says

      Apr 24, 2014 at 11:14 am

      maybe they were ARVN vets,,,

  7. Kim Bruce says

    Apr 23, 2014 at 5:08 am

    The Uighurs of Xinjiang are Sunni Muslims, correct?

  8. Kepha says

    Apr 23, 2014 at 5:37 am

    @Mazo: You’re right about shamanism among Taiwan’s rural (and ex-rural) population. The European peasantry was historically ridden by lots of superstitions, such as belief in poltergeists in German-speaking countries and in trolls and the toemte in Scandinavia. But I still refuse to dismiss either eastern or western rural populations as devoid of logic or science.

    I will also argue that a lot of the modern “intelligentsia” is also ridden by various superstitions of its own, albeit these involve more sophisticated terms like dialectic, historical necessity, statistical studies, etc. Why, here in America, urban people who pride themselves on being scientific believe that surgeons and wardrobe specialists have the ability to turn a man into a woman, even though in every attempt to do so, every cell in the poor shlemiel’s body still screams “XY”!

  9. duh_swami says

    Apr 23, 2014 at 6:24 am

    It doesn’t say how many guns were seized and fired, but it’s interesting that these peaceful people can grab a gun and immediately know how to use it.

  10. duh_swami says

    Apr 23, 2014 at 6:32 am

    From post above…’I also know about those shaman in rural Taiwan who claim to be able to communicate with spirits…’

    How do you know it is only a claim? Maybe those ‘spirits’ are actually jinn.

  11. bill says

    Apr 23, 2014 at 9:27 am

    I wonder if the Uighar really wanted to migrate to Vietnam or whether they see it as a route to Australia. It is well known that migrants especially from Muslim countries are heading for Australia in ever increasing numbers. Odd how they never go to a Muslim country even though there is one on route namely Indonesia, which is quite extremist enough for them no doubt. No they would rather go to a non Muslim country and cause problems there

  12. RonaldB says

    Apr 23, 2014 at 9:58 am

    The Vietnamese won a war with the US and right afterwards, beat back an invasion from China. My suspicion is that the Vietnamese border guards were caught by surprise once by “civilian” would-be refugees, but it won’t happen again.

    Left to their own devices, the Vietnamese are perfectly capable of defending their own borders. In fact, I think the Vietnamese and the Chinese are least likely to be susceptible to pressures from world organizations, such as the UN and the European Court of Justice, in defending their borders and their cultures.

    I think the only times when what we consider “atrocities” should be tolerated is when a country is defending its borders, and when it is defending itself from direct attack, which amounts to the same thing. I can foresee Vietnam killing a number of civilian would-be refugees in the near future, including women and children. Israel did the same thing when the Muslims organized “peaceful” incursions over the Israeli borders. The Israelis mined the borders, shot some of the refugees, and the movement dried up, with a minimum loss of life.

    In my opinion, a country incurs no obligation for the safety of invaders who load themselves on unseaworthy boats and attempt to land in another country, or who throw away all their possessions and try to cross borders, banking on their helplessness to invoke refugee status.

    • Bradamante says

      Apr 23, 2014 at 1:37 pm

      I have to say, I’m heartened to think that both Vietnam and China can do a good job of defending their own borders. I’ve noticed something interesting about my own attitude as I’ve become less liberal and more centrist or even conservative, depending on definitions. Liberal dogma is that people who are proud to be Americans and proud to be part of Western Civilization are all xenophobes who hate other countries. Only PC liberals, who want to tear down borders, truly appreciate the wonderful diversity of humankind, etc. But actually, the more happy and proud I am to be an American and a Westerner, the more clear I am that I *don’t* want the whole world to melt into a gooey mess of not-quite-countries with mobs of nomads traipsing from place to place as they please. This is not to say that I agree with or approve of everything about China or Vietnam — needless to say! — but I want there to *be* a China and a Vietnam, and I’m glad to see them standing up for their borders.

  13. gravenimage says

    Apr 24, 2014 at 10:40 pm

    China-Vietnam border: Seven dead as Muslims seize guns from Vietnamese border guards and shoot at them
    …………………………..

    There is virtually no inhabited place on earth that is fully safe from the specter of violent Jihad…

    • Mazo says

      Apr 25, 2014 at 7:48 pm

      Like when Cham, Khmer, and Montagnards were not same from Vietnamese invasion?

    • Mazo says

      Apr 25, 2014 at 7:51 pm

      Like when Cham, Khmer and Montagnards weren’t safe from Vietnamese invasion?

  14. dumbledoresarmy says

    Apr 25, 2014 at 6:01 am

    Re Islam, Muslims and criminality.

    http://frontpagemag.com/2010/05/05/among-criminal-muslims/

    ‘Among Criminal Muslims’

    http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/27326
    Muslims and Westerners: The Psychological Differences
    by Nicolai Sennels (May 2010)

    And as for immigration…in the case of the Ummah, immigration *is* invasion, more often than not.

    As you will find if you read the following handy review – and summary – of Sam Solomon and Elias Maqdisi’s “Al Hijra: The Islamic Doctrine of Immigration”.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/the_hijra.html

    August 16, 2009
    The Hijra
    By Janet Levy

    Modern Day Trojan Horse: The Islamic Doctrine of Immigration
    By Sam Solomon and Elias Al Maqdisi
    ANM Publishers, 2009

    Read that article (better still, get and read the book) and you will understand exactly why it might be that Sennels discovered that “the one thing Muslim immigrants fear is being deported”.

    “While the prospect of imprisonment does not seem to scare immigrants from committing serious and dangerous crimes, it seems that losing the chance to live in our country is the only thing that really scares them.
    This is also my own experience from working with criminal Muslims: The one thing they fear is being deported.”

    Of *course* they fear it…because if enough of them were deported, their “hijra”, their immigration-invasion, would fail.

    • Mazo says

      Apr 25, 2014 at 2:22 pm

      Newsflash- Chinese people are not westerners.

      Many drug dealers in Guangdong in China are also Nigerians, many of whom are non-Muslim.

      http://www.danwei.org/front_page_of_the_day/nigerian_drug_dealer_was_sente.php

      Many criminals who engage in the human trafficking trade are Vietnamese who sell their own women and children. One Vietnamese woman even sold her own cousin into sex slavery.

      http://www.neurope.eu/article/vietnam-china-human-trafficking-growing-malady

      http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20110728000015&cid=1103

      Something else you may not know- preceding the Boxer Rebellion, France forced China to give extraterritorial rights to Priests and Chinese who converted to Catholicism, so many criminals in China converted in order to avoid arrest and prosecution. When these criminals were actually arrested and executed by the authorities, France claimed China was “persecuting” Christians.

      It was this kind of arrogant behavior that led to the Boxer Rebellion and Tibetan Lamas attacking the French priests.

      • dumbledoresarmy says

        Apr 26, 2014 at 3:19 am

        Nothing that you have just posted does anything to disprove what Sennels says about Muslim criminality as he has documented and analysed it (a criminality that is distinctively different – in nature and in sheer quantity – from that of native Europeans and of non-Muslim immigrants) nor does it do anything to disprove what Sam Solomon – an EX-MUSLIM, that is, a publicly-declared defector from the allah gang or mohammedan mob, who has chosen Life, Freedom and Truth – has to say about the hijra, the process – all laid out in various Islamic texts and their interpretations – by which Muslims deliberately set out to infiltrate, subvert and Islamise non-Muslim “host” or “targeted” societies. Sam Solomon’s book *makes sense*. It fits the observable facts.

        And in any case, Mohammedan, chinese slave of the Arab Imperial Cult: since I know that your Death Cult licenses you to bend the truth, to fantasise, to talk BS, and to LIE through your teeth in order to protect the Ummah or Mohammedan Mob, the Allah Gang, from critical scrutiny and /or further its megalomaniacal project aimed at achieving total world domination, I prefer to cut the gordian knot, and simply assume from the beginning, when I see your name at the head of a post, that I cannot trust a word you’re saying.

        • Mazo says

          Apr 26, 2014 at 5:12 am

          And what does this pile of drivel have to do with asia?

          Why is it that people who actually go to asia agree with me like Kepha while people like you who have never been there try to spread as much BS as you can about Islam in asia?

          You told us blatant lies, like the time you said Orthodox Christianity entered Siberia peacefully. I didn’t know Russians were native to Siberia.

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/approximately-11000-foreign-jihadis-in-syria-recruited-through-social-media-and-skype/comment-page-1#comment-1041665

          You support evil sectarianism and promoting hostility between different religions in asia.

  15. Mazo says

    Apr 25, 2014 at 1:01 pm

    Speaking of violent Jihad, the Vietnamese in fact violently invaded the Hindu and Muslim Champa Kingdom (modern day south Vietnam) and conquered the Cham people, migrating by the tens of millions into their land which is now flooded with Vietnamese.

    Now the remnants of the Cham kingdom are completely within south Vietnam and the Hindu and Muslim Cham only number in the hundreds of thousands.

    Chinese records from the Ming dynasty record the bloody Vietnamese conquest against the Cham. The Cham asked China for help, and asked China to launch an attack on the Vietnamese to make them stop their assault. Champa was a protectorate and tributary to China.

    There are descendants of Muslim Cham refugees in Hainan island in China, where they are called Utsul. They fled the bloody conquest by Vietnam and were given asylum by China.

    Vietnam also conquered the Mekong Delta from the Buddhist Khmer Krom, and conquered the central highands from the native Montagnard (Degar) minority.

    During the Vietnam War, the Hindu and Muslim Cham, Buddhist Khmer Krom, and Christian Montagnards all teamed up and created the “United Front for the Liberation of Oppressed Races” (FULRO is the French acronym).

    This FULRO organization fought against both the South and the North Vietnamese until 1992. The Vietnamese slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Montagnards, and sent millions of ethnic Vietanmese Kinh settlers to take over Montagnard land in the central Highlands, and Hindu and Muslim Cham land in former Champa, and into Khmer Krom land in the Mekong.

    The Hindu and Muslim Cham continue to live in poverty and face discrimination by Vietnamese, and the Christian Montagnards continue to be persecuted by the Vietnamese, and the Khmer Krom are also discriminated against.

    These conquered peoples now live as small minorities in a flood of tens of millions of Vietnamese.

    Note that both the South Vietnamese and the current Vietnamese government both persecuted and fought these minorities. The South Vietnamese under Christian leader Ngo Dinh Diem, persecuted the Christian Montagnards, settling Christian Vietnamese refugees from North Vietnam onto Montagnard land. The curent Vietnamese government just copied his policies.

    This is why the FULRO Cham, Khmer, and Montagnard fighters fought both North and South Vietnam in the Vietnam War. FULRO was at times aided by Anerica, at other times it was supported by China, especially during the late 1970s and 1980s.

  16. dumbledoresarmy says

    May 11, 2014 at 9:09 am

    Above, the Mohammedan said, “You told us blatant lies, like the time you said Orthodox Christianity entered Siberia peacefully. ”

    I never said that. No posting of mine on this site has ever contained a sentence that read as follows: “Orthodox Christianity entered Siberia peacefully”.

    In any case, how Christianity entered Siberia is not the subject.

    I carry no candle for *any* form of imperialism: whether it be Russian imperialism, Han Chinese imperialism, Vietnamese imperialism…or MUSLIM imperialism, which is basically Arab imperialism, Arab supremacism, deludedly embraced and perpetuated and inflicted on others by assorted non-Arab peoples who have internalised and are busy perpetuating a system invented originally by an evil Arab. And who in so doing, nullify their own pre-Islamic identities and cultures. The more Islamic they become, the less they have left of anything else that they were. John Quincy Adams in 1829 summed up the “fruits” of Islam as “desolation and delusion” and I think that, generally speaking, he was right.

    I view the de facto Empire of Islam as probably the worst, the cruellest, the most murderous and the most desolating of all the empires that have burdened the earth.

    Tu quoque is one of the oldest dodges and evasions used by mohammedan spin-doctors and sand-throwers.

    The subject is Islam: Islam the religion of blood and war, Islam which rejects and does not practise the “Golden Rule”, Islam which promotes suspicion and aggression and endless deceits. Islam in whose canonical texts (saturated with violent intemperate and hateful language, full of curses) one finds an open and open-ended declaration of war against all who are not Muslim and who wish neither to become Muslim nor to be ruled by Muslims.

    Here is Jacques Ellul, French sociologist, on the subject of Jihad.

    http://www.dhimmi.org/Foreword.html

    “…Jihad is generally translated as “holy war” (this term is not satisfactory): and this suggests both that this war is provoked by strong religious feeling, and then that its first object is not so much to conquer land as to Islamize the populations.

    “This war is a religious duty.
    “It will probably be said that every religion in its expanding phase carries the risks of war, that history records hundreds of religious wars and it is now a commonplace to make this connection.
    “Hence, religious passion is thus sometimes expressed in this manner. But it is, in fact, “passion” – it concerns mainly a fact which it would be easy to demonstrate does not correspond to the fundamental message of the religion. This disjuncture is obvious for Christianity.

    “In Islam, on the contrary, jihad is a religious obligation. It forms part of the duties that the believer must fulfil; it is Islam’s normal path to expansion. And this is found repeatedly dozens of times in the Koran.

    “Therefore, the believer is not denying the religious message. Quite the reverse, jihad is the way he best obeys it.

    ” And the facts which are recorded meticulously and analyzed clearly show that the jihad is not a “spiritual war” but a real military war of conquest. It expresses the agreement between the “fundamental book” and the believers’ practical strivings.

    “But Bat Ye’or [in “The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam”] shows that things are not so simple. Since the jihad is not solely an external war, it can break out within the Muslim world itself – and wars among Muslims have been numerous, but always with the same features.

    “Hence, the second important specific characteristic is that the jihad is an institution and not an event, that is to say it is part of the normal functioning of the Muslim world..”.

    “…the jihad is an institution in itself; that is to say, an organic piece of Muslim society. As a religious duty, it fits into the religious organization, like pilgrimages, and so on.

    “However, this is not the essential factor, which derives from the division of the world in the (religious) thought of Islam.

    “The world, as Bat Ye’or brilliantly shows, is divided into two regions: the dar al-Islam and the dar al-harb, in other words: the “domain of Islam” and “the domain of war”.

    “The world is no longer divided into nations, peoples, tribes. Rather, they are all located en bloc in the world of war, where war is the only possible relationship with the outside world.

    “The earth belongs to Allah and all its inhabitants must acknowledge this reality; to achieve this goal there is but one method: war.

    “War, then, is clearly an institution, not just an incidental or fortuitous institution, but a constituent part of the thought, the organization and the structures of this world.
    “Peace with this world of war is impossible. Of course, it is sometimes necessary to call a halt; there are circumstances where it is better not to make war. The Koran makes provision for this. But this changes nothing: war remains an institution, which means that it must resume as soon as circumstances permit.

    “I have greatly stressed the characteristics of this war, because there is so much talk nowadays of the tolerance and fundamental pacifism of Islam that it is necessary to recall its nature, which is fundamentally warlike! “…

    Thus Jacques Ellul, scholar, sociologist, toward the end of a long and brilliant career, summmarising the account of Islam and Jihad which emerges from Bat Yeor’s massive investigations of the imposition of Islam in many countries and the phenomenon of dhimmitude.

    No matter where Islam is, it forms the attitudes and goals of its adherents. No matter where they are, they all read the same Quran, the same Sira; they honor and are supposed to imitate Mohammed the Warlord, Mohammed the slave-taker and slave-trader.

    No amount of sand-throwing can obscure those central facts.

    • Mazo says

      May 16, 2014 at 12:42 am

      I notice how western and Tibetan imperialism don’t feature on your list, like when British supported Tibet invaded Qinghai in 1932 and got thrashed by Hui Muslim General Ma Bufang.

    • Mazo says

      May 16, 2014 at 12:44 am

      I notice how Western and Tibetan Imperialism don’t feature on your list, like when the British backed Tibet invaded Qinghai in 1932 and got thrashed by Hui Muslim General Ma Bufang.

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