Sharon Otterman of the New York Times asked me for comment on this story, as she did for one recently on the 9/11 Museum — and this time she actually quoted me in the story. She severely disfigures her piece here, however, in characteristic New York Times fashion, by dismissing opponents of the Ground Zero Mosque as “right-wing, anti-Muslim organizations,” and by describing me as someone who “runs an anti-Muslim blog, Jihad Watch.” Describing me and my work as “anti-Muslim,” as common as it may be, is a vicious slur: I am no more anti-Muslim than foes of the Nazis were anti-German. The idea that working to defend the freedom of speech and equality of rights for all people (including Muslims) is “anti-Muslim” says more about what Sharon Otterman thinks being Muslim consists of than it does about me.
Anyway, just for the record, here is my actual exchange with Sharon Otterman:
1. Otterman to Spencer:
Hi Robert,
Hope you’re well. I saw you reprinted our exchange on your website– I’m glad I spelled everything correctly.
I had another question for you– hopefully this answer will be included in the final piece!
Sharif El-Gamal, the developer of Park51, has just proposed a new plan for the former Burlington Coat Factory site near ground zero: a three story museum dedicated to exploring the faith of Islam and its arts and culture, that will include a sanctuary for prayer services and community programs.
Apparently he will keep the building to 3 stories instead of 15, and has commissioned a famous architect to do the design, and include a public green space. He proposes hosting academic and cultural events there.
I’m wondering what you think about the plan, in its broad outlines. If you want to pass this email along to Pam Geller, feel free, or I can reach out to her directly. Do you think it will cause a similar uproar to the last plan?
Best,
Sharon
2. Spencer to Otterman:
Sharon
You can reach Pamela Geller at xxxx@xxxxxx.com.
Sharif’s new plan sounds as if it will be dedicated to improving the image of Islam that was so tarnished by the 9/11 attacks. The structure as you describe it would be as grotesque as a three story museum dedicated to exploring the faith of Shintoism and emperor-worship, and its arts and culture, with a sanctuary for prayer services and community programs, at Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor would not be an appropriate place for such a museum, and it would indeed be legitimately seen as a tasteless attempt to exonerate the Japanese civil religion of responsibility for the attack and the war. Likewise this museum, if it is to be built at all, should be anywhere but at Ground Zero. Just as it is inappropriate, offensive and unnecessary for the 9/11 Museum to go out of its way to improve the image of Islam, so also it is inappropriate and offensive to build a museum/mosque dedicated to the glories of Islam at the site of a catastrophic attack that its perpetrators described as inspired by and motivated by Islamic texts and teachings.
This structure may (or may not) be so different from the previous 15-story plan that it will be less likely to be taken in the Islamic world as a triumphal mosque a la the Dome of the Rock, the Hagia Sophia and the Umayyad Mosque of Damascus, etc., but it is still a spectacularly inappropriate idea for that location. If Sharif wants to improve the image of Islam, a mosque celebrating its purported glories at Ground Zero will not do the trick; only a concerted effort to reform Islam and counter the jihadist narrative within Muslim communities will accomplish that.
I ran into Sharif not long ago in New York and he invited me to meet privately with him and an imam. I was willing to do so and gave him my email address, but he never followed up. You can pass along to him that I am still willing to do so, but that if he wants to convince people that Islam is a religion of peace, building Islamic museums and having talks with unbelievers won’t do it; only solid work to refute the jihadist understanding of Islam and convince young Muslims that it is wrong will accomplish that. What is Sharif doing toward that end?
Cordially
Robert Spencer
“Developer Scales Back Plans for Muslim Center Near Ground Zero,” by Sharon Otterman, New York Times, April 29, 2014:
The developer whose proposal to build a Muslim community center and mosque near the World Trade Center failed amid a national controversy three years ago said Tuesday that he now plans to construct a museum devoted to Islam in the same location.
Sharif El-Gamal, the developer, said through a spokesman that instead of a $100 million, 15-story community center and prayer space, he now planned a smaller, three-story museum “dedicated to exploring the faith of Islam and its arts and culture.” The building would also include a sanctuary for prayer services and community programs.
To make the plan more attractive to neighbors, he said in a statement, he had commissioned a French architect, Jean Nouvel, winner of the 2008 Pritzker Prize, to design the building at 45-51 Park Place, about two blocks from the former World Trade Center in Lower Manhattan, and had included plans for a public green space.
“This is a more tailored approach, both physically and programmatically,” said Hank Sheinkopf, a spokesman for Mr. El-Gamal. “It will prove to be an important addition to the neighborhood and to New York City’s arts and cultural community.”
The museum will be a 5,000-square-foot, three-story structure, Mr. Sheinkopf said, adding that the dimensions and design are still in development. He said Mr. El-Gamal’s signing of Mr. Nouvel “shows his serious commitment to realizing this project.”
Mr. Sheinkopf said Mr. El-Gamal is not anticipating an outcry like the one he faced in 2010, when the center was loudly opposed by right-wing, anti-Muslim organizations, some relatives of Sept. 11 victims, and others who contended it would be insensitive to build an Islamic institution so close to ground zero.
But he may be naïve about the depth of opposition. Robert Spencer, one of the loudest voices against the 2010 proposal and who runs an anti-Muslim blog, Jihad Watch, said this plan would be no better.
“The structure as you describe it,” he wrote in an email, “would be as grotesque as a three-story museum dedicated to exploring the faith of Shintoism and emperor-worship, and its arts and culture, with a sanctuary for prayer services and community programs, at Pearl Harbor.”
Left unclear by Mr. El-Gamal’s announcement was how realistic his plans are. When asked about financing, Mr. Sheinkopf said only that Mr. El-Gamal would initially finance the museum and sanctuary himself and that he hoped to find other benefactors.
Mr. El-Gamal has had trouble raising money in the past. And, in 2011, he was sued by Consolidated Edison Company, which owns part of the site, for $1.7 million in back rent. Mr. El-Gamal disputed the formulas used to calculate this figure and filed a lawsuit.
There was no timetable given for the museum. This month, however, Mr. El-Gamal filed plans with the Buildings Department to demolish the five-story 45 Park Place and four-story 51 Park Place to make way for the project, and Mr. Sheinkopf said demolition would begin in the coming months.
The nonprofit organization, Park51, that holds daily Islamic prayer services and cultural events at the site would temporarily relocate in the neighborhood, and the prayer services would resume in the new building, the spokesman said.
Daisy Khan, who along with her husband, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, was originally a partner with Mr. El-Gamal in the Park51 Community Center project, said that they had not been contacted or involved with these latest plans. “I am just as surprised as anyone else,” Ms. Khan said.
“It is definitely a scaled-down version, a minuscule version of the last project,” she said.
It did not seem that Mr. El-Gamal had reached out widely to the city’s Muslim community before this announcement. Ameena Meer, who worked on advertising and social media for the original project, said she had received an invitation to hear about Mr. El-Gamal’s new agenda this week.
Linda Sarsour, executive director of the Arab American Association of New York, said Mr. El-Gamal called on Tuesday morning to invite her to meet with a few community leaders to talk about the project this week….
That in itself is telling. Linda Sarsour is a rabidly anti-Semitic Islamic supremacist who has said that “nothing is creepier than Zionism” and equated it with “racism.” She is also a frequent visitor to the Obama White House, and has claimed that the jihad underwear bomber was a CIA agent — part of what she claims is a U.S. war against Islam. She is a practiced exploiter of the “hate” smear against foes of jihad terror and Islamic supremacism, and has never apologized for using the Islamic honor murder of Shaima Alawadi to spread lies about the prevalence of hate crimes against Muslims in America. Although she decries “hate,” she is venomously hateful herself — far more so than any foe of jihad has ever been.
Nicole Pesce of the New York Daily News also contacted me for comment on this.
1. Pesce to Spencer:
Good evening, Robert Spencer:
This is Nicole Pesce at the New York Daily News. I apologize for reaching out to you so late, but I’m writing a story for tomorrow’s paper about Sharif El-Gamal’s revised plan for a museum and sanctuary at Lower Manhattan, and would like to get your reaction. How did you hear about the revised plan? Is it an improvement over the previous one? Will this be better received by the public than his first plan?
I’m available directly by email or at (xxx) xxx-xxxx to discuss, and I am on deadline for tomorrow’s paper.
Thank you kindly,
Nicole Pesce
2. Spencer to Pesce:
I heard about it only when the NY Times asked me for comment.
Sharif’s new plan is not an improvement over the previous one. It just causes different kinds of offense. The three-story structure may (or may not) be so different from the previous 15-story plan that it will be less likely to be taken in the Islamic world as a triumphal mosque a la the Dome of the Rock, the Hagia Sophia and the Umayyad Mosque of Damascus, etc., but it is still a spectacularly inappropriate idea for that location. If Sharif wants to improve the image of Islam, a mosque celebrating its purported glories at Ground Zero will not do the trick; only a concerted effort to reform Islam and counter the jihadist narrative within Muslim communities will accomplish that.
It will likely be better received publicly than the first one, because the size of the structure makes it less obviously a triumphal mosque, and because for years now the public has been inundated with stories about how fine a man Sharif (despite his many financial irregularities) and all others involved with the Ground Zero Mosque project are, in an effort to break down resistance to the project.
And here is what they printed: “Developer behind ‘Ground Zero mosque’ plans Islam museum near World Trade Center by Nicole Lyn Pesce, New York Daily News, April 30, 2014:
The developer behind the scrapped “Ground Zero mosque” announced Tuesday that he plans to build a museum dedicated to Islam on the same controversial site.
Sharif El-Gamal wants to construct a three-story museum devoted to Muslim arts and culture at his 45-51Park Place property, just blocks from the World Trade Center. The site will also include a sanctuary for prayer services and community programs, he said.
“New York’s arts and cultural institutions have always been a great inspiration to me and I consider this opportunity to create a museum to be a true privilege,” said El-Gamal in a statement.
The new museum is much smaller than the 15-story, $100 million house of worship he proposed in 2010, which failed under opposition from vocal critics including some 9/11 families, who argued that a mosque in the shadow of the World Trade Center was insensitive. El-Gamal opened a modest prayer centerat the site in 2011 but earlier this month an application to tear it down was filed with the city.
The museum may still may spark criticism. “Sharif’s new plan is not an improvement over the previous one. It just causes different kinds of offense,” said Robert Spencer, who runs the blog Jihad Watch and was an outspoken opponent of El-Gamal’s original proposal.
He called it “still a spectacularly inappropriate idea for that location” but conceded that it would probably be better-received than the mosque proposal.
The proposed site will be designed by award-winning architect Jean Nouvel, who is masterminding an expansion of the Museum of Modern Art.
It was unclear how the museum would be financed. A spokesman for El-Gamal told The New York Times, which first reported the plan, that the developer would initially finance the project himself.
mariam rove says
Islamists and Jihadists are the most shameless bastards I have ever come across. M
Tradewinds says
And so are their leftist supporters like NYT reporter Sharon Otterman.
Anyone who thinks Muslims should build anything next to 9/11 Ground Zero is an absolute idiot. Yes – let’s have a Victory Mosk where Muslims mass-murdered 3,000 Americans on September 11, 2001! What in the heck is wrong with the NYT??
Sharif El-Gamal can move to Yemen and go screw himself.
john spielman says
I don’t think Americans will allow anything like El Gamal is proposing. First the American laboreres would refuse to build , second it would probably mysteriously burn down if construction would start because of such strong emotions it would generate in nonmuslims. I don’t think anyone would insure it.
I just can’t get over the supremacist attitude of el Gamal et al, that cannot resist poking their collective finger in the eyes of the American victims of Islamic Terror (which their theology not only sanctions but encourages)!
Angemon says
No need to burn anything down. If a couple of dozen of pig heads/carcasses and a copious amount of their blood were to find its way to the construction site the problem would solve itself.
Brother John says
I wish I had some evidence to justify your faith that Americans won’t permit such a “victory mosc” to be built. I don’t see any: the political class would enable it to thumb the eyes of average Americans, and there’s more than enough illegal labor of all types to make it happen. I think it will be built, and will be in order to goad someone to blow it up.
poseidon says
indeed they are! It`s a spit in the face of America! The very religion that inspired the offenders should become a museum on the very site of the offence?? What the hell happens?
Champ ✿ says
Islamists and Jihadists are the most shameless bastards I have ever come across. M
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I agree, Mariam! …and not only are they shameless, but I would add heartless and soulless, too.
Bradamante says
It goes beyond the fact that they’re on an agenda. There’s a pervasive insensitivity that seems to bespeak deep narcissism. I was just thinking of a Jihadwatch video from a couple of years back that I saw a few days ago. Robert Spencer comments on a video by British Muslims about what they’re going to do for peace. Step 1 is “Fight Islamophobia.” Right off the bat, there’s the attitude — they’re not going to clean their own house, they’re going to engage in emotional abuse of the kafirs who are rightly afraid (by telling those kafirs how wrong they are to be afraid of the people who want to kill them). And yet I believe they sincerely think that that’s a very reasonable way to proceed. The abusive, entitled attitude goes so deep to the bone that they have no idea how they come across.
Jay Boo says
This is Great news
Let them build their stinking “Islam play the victim Museum”
They are probing and itching for a fight.
Sharif El-Gamal BRING IT!
Let Islam come out in the open beyond the protection of the MSM PC veil.
Let’s also reveal the true face of Islam.
200 girls kidnapped in Nigeria as CAIR and Islamic nations stand complicit in the NAME OF ISLAM. Beastly honor killings genocide of non-Muslims. Let us get all of Islam’s filth on display.
Huck Folder says
Some points mr:
Three stories doesn’t say how tall the building will be. You could have a 100 foot tall ceiling or atrium, with similar supremacist architecture above. However, I suspect that cash is tight now. El-Gamal seems to come across as a sleazebag or conman, as well as an evil landlord. Maybe his financiers are wary, so he has had to scale back. Even the incestuous Soddy Barbarians have to watch their funds now, what with propping up Egypt, and ‘adventures’ in Syria.
“Do you think it will cause a similar uproar to the last plan?” [Irony?]
“The building would also include a sanctuary for prayer services [Duh! A mosque/barracks!] and community programs [IEDs 101? Taqiyya 101?].”
He said Mr. El-Gamal’s signing of Mr. Nouvel “shows his serious commitment to realizing this project.” [I hope M. Nouvel knows what he will do to his reputation. And seriously, he should get cash in advance.]
“The nonprofit organization, Park51, [IRS scam? Friend of Lois Lerner?] that holds daily Islamic prayer services [= mosque] and cultural events [Walking tours to spot targets for jihad, and security arrangements.] at the site would temporarily relocate in the neighborhood, and the prayer services would resume in the new building, the spokesman said.”
““New York’s arts and cultural institutions have always been a great inspiration to me [REALLY?*] and I consider this opportunity to create a museum to be a true privilege,” said [unctuated] El-Gamal in a statement.”
* Isn’t 99.9% of Western art horribly OFFENSIVE to mohammedans?
kikorikid says
Their arrogance far outweighs any sense of shame.
Their “Museum” will be like the “Arab-Americam Museum”
in Dearborn, Michigan. “Museum” on the front door,
the Dome of the Mosque on top.
ApolloSpeaks says
TOO EARLY TO POP TO CORK
Under the guise of a small muzzie-leum this snake could be building his victory mosque. We must watch its development like hawks.
http://www.apollospeaks.com
ApolloSpeaks says
POP THE CORK
Champ ✿ says
Robert Spencer excerpt:
“The structure as you describe it would be as grotesque as a three story museum dedicated to exploring the faith of Shintoism and emperor-worship, and its arts and culture, with a sanctuary for prayer services and community programs, at Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor would not be an appropriate place for such a museum, and it would indeed be legitimately seen as a tasteless attempt to exonerate the Japanese civil religion of responsibility for the attack and the war. Likewise this museum, if it is to be built at all, should be anywhere but at Ground Zero. ”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spot on, Robert!! Bravo! Brilliant!
Bamaguje says
““The structure as you describe it would be as grotesque as a three story museum dedicated to exploring the faith of Shintoism and emperor-worship” – Robert Spencer.
I’m not sure that the reference to Shintoism in this analogy is appropriate. To the best of my knowledge, Shintoism does to mandate its adherents to hate and war against non-Shintoists… as Islam does.
Japan’s war against America in WWII was not driven by religion, any more than Nazism was driven by Christianity.
Both warring tyrannies may have deployed religion to whip up support among their peoples and confer some sort of legitimacy for their racial supremacist aggression, but they were not primarily motivated by religion. Just old fashion greed for territory that drove other expansionist empires and kingdoms throughout history….
Champ ✿ says
Robert was illustrating an excellent point of how insensitive and tacky an islamic museum–so close to Ground Zero–would be, so don’t overlook his main objective here; and Robert is not claiming that the attack on Pearl Harbor was on par with islam’s religious motivations towards world conquest. You are *really* missing the main point.
duh_swami says
Japan’s war against America in WWII was not driven by religion, any more than Nazism was driven by Christianity.
Emperor worship makes it religious.
Michael Copeland says
The Burlington Hate Factory.
Champ ✿ says
Sharon Otterman of the New York Times asked me for comment on this story, as she did for one recently on the 9/11 Museum — and this time she actually quoted me in the story. She severely disfigures her piece here, however, in characteristic New York Times fashion, by dismissing opponents of the Ground Zero Mosque as “right-wing, anti-Muslim organizations,” and by describing me as someone who “runs an anti-Muslim blog, Jihad Watch.” Describing me and my work as “anti-Muslim,” as common as it may be, is a vicious slur: I am no more anti-Muslim than foes of the Nazis were anti-German. The idea that working to defend the freedom of speech and equality of rights for all people (including Muslims) is “anti-Muslim” says more about what Sharon Otterman thinks being Muslim consists of than it does about me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sharon Otterman is a Lazy journalist who doesn’t do her own research. If she did, then she would know that what Robert Spencer stated is True; then she needs to write a retraction to this vicious slur. Shame on you, Sharon.
Charli Main says
Just another symbol and permanent reminder of Islam´s triumph over the Kaffirs. Roman emperors built triumphal arches in conquered countries, to remind their water carriers of their power over them.
gravenimage says
Ground Zero Mosque developer now plans museum of Islam at Ground Zero
……………………………………
More sickening Muslim supremacism. I can just imagine the grotesque Taqiyya whitewashing of Islam that would be presented in this “museum”.
And it would *still be a Mosque*. It would have a “prayer room”. Even now, Mohammedans are praying their baleful prayers at the Burlington Coat Factory store ruins, even though the building should not be inhabited. Why isn’t NYC enforcing its own health and safety codes? That would be “Islamophobic”…sarc/off
And I’m sick of the Burlington Coat Factory store being described as ‘near Ground Zero’. One of the engines of one of the hijacked planes fell off and ripped through the building; had it not been for the sheer luck of the staff being in the basement for daily pre-opening inventory, there almost certainly would have been casualties there. Fifteen minutes earlier, staff; and fifteen minutes later, staff and customers.
This proposal is more Muslim supremacist gloating at the site of Muslim savagery. Robert Spencer’s analogy to a Shinto museum at Pearl Harbor is very apt.
There is, in fact, a very long and grim history of Muslims erecting Mosques and other Islamic supremacist structures at the sites of their greatest atrocities. We can’t let this happen in our greatest city!
mariam rove says
More sickening Muslim supremacism. I can just imagine the grotesque Taqiyya whitewashing of Islam that would be presented in this “museum”.
And yes. In plain sight…..m
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
Fifteen minutes earlier, staff; and fifteen minutes later, staff and customers.
This is an important point. Burlington *was* at Ground Zero. Don’t know what an airliner jet engine weighs, but it’s gotta be several thousand pounds.
Points like the one from Graven here are missed all the time. The IRS didn’t overreached, they committed felonies in order to help rig a presidential election.
More to the point here, if the two ex-SEALs working for the CIA at Benghazi had not disobeyed direct orders, the Infidel death toll there on 9/11 woulda been 35, not four.
Walter Sieruk says
As for the first Muslim idea of builkding a mosque at the site of Ground Zero. Some ofthe apologists for Islam have actually gone so far as to made the claim that this future mosque would actually be a “cross cultural center.” That claim was a false claim , a lie and a smokescreen to cover up that truth. For the construction of the building would really be a victory memorial mosque for the forces and powers of Islam. Furthermore, at lecture at a church on August 2010 about the subject of Islam. During the question ans answer part someone asked about the plained construction of the Grown Zero Mosque. One of the speakers was a Christian pastor, an Arab who lived in Syria for many years answered the the building of that mosque at Ground Zero would be taken as a message in the Islamic world as “”You see what we did here, we brought down the twin towers and built up a mosque.” The other speaker, Dr. Daniel Shayesth, who in times past was an Iranian citizen, a Muslim and a Hezbollah member but now a Christian and an American citizen also said that the construction of the mosque at Ground Zero will be taken as the message in the Muslim world as “”We have killed and have been victorious.” Moreover, in his book ISLAM: THE HOUSE I LEFT BEHIND on page 99 it reads “The mosque is vital for establishing Muslims as sovereign over non-Muslims in a non-Islamic society. Building a mosque in a non-Islamic society or country symbolizes Islam’s clam over that society or country, even one with a non-Muslim majority.”
Tradewinds says
“The mosque is vital for establishing Muslims as sovereign over non-Muslims in a non-Islamic society. Building a mosque in a non-Islamic society or country symbolizes Islam’s clam over that society or country, even one with a non-Muslim majority.”
It’s a Victory Mosk, Walter. Plain and simple. The Mohammedans can take their “Taqiyya” and shove it.
“War is deception” – Warlord Muhammed
RodSerling says
“Mr. Sheinkopf said Mr. El-Gamal is not anticipating an outcry like the one he faced in 2010, when the center was loudly opposed by right-wing, anti-Muslim organizations, some relatives of Sept. 11 victims, and others who contended it would be insensitive to build an Islamic institution so close to ground zero.” -Otterman/NY Times
Contrary to that viciously dishonest portrayal, the ground zero mosque was opposed not only by human rights activists such as Spencer and Geller, but also by the majority of people in the general public. There were numerous polls conducted on this issue at the time. Once again, the mainstream media (which is run primarily by radical leftist anti-Western propagandists) lies, in this case through omission. Once again, we see the discrepancy between the mainstream of the general public, versus the extremely twisted ideologues who run the so-called mainstream media. It’s not difficult to figure out what these anti-Western ideologues would want ideally in this case: The most massive Islamic building possible, as close to the pin-point center of ground zero as possible, with the maximum Islamic image management propaganda promoted from it.
RodSerling says
p.s. Remarkable how not once in her request for information/opinion from Spencer does she refer to him as “anti-Muslim.”
PJG says
Yes, she is a sneaky one. That friendly attitude, that cheerful exclamation mark…then she calls Robert, damningly, “anti-Muslim”.
I have had a similar experience with a journalist.
eib says
By their fruits ye shall know them.
Veracious_one says
“… that will include a sanctuary for prayer services “…..roh roh…a mosque….
Tradewinds says
Yes, they can pray to their Arabian moon god about mass-murdering the Infidels next to the site of 9/11. Lovely. Any islamic structure near the site of 9/11 is unconscionable.
kikorikid says
Also on the list of functions: Battalion
Mirren10 says
What Mr Spencer actually said:
”It will likely be better received publicly than the first one, because the size of the structure makes it less obviously a triumphal mosque, and because for years now the public has been inundated with stories about how fine a man Sharif (despite his many financial irregularities) and all others involved with the Ground Zero Mosque project are, in an effort to break down resistance to the project”
How Pesce tries to spin it:
”He called it “still a spectacularly inappropriate idea for that location” but **conceded that it would probably be better-received than the mosque proposal** ( my emphasis: Mirren)
She writes this, but omits, no doubt deliberately, the reasons Mr Spencer gave as to **why** ”it would probably be better received than the mosque proposal”.
And why would she do this ?
Because Mr Spencer clearly points out a) the proposal is **smaller**, and is therefore less likely to be perceived as a triumphal mosque, and b) ” … for years now the public has been inundated with stories about how fine a man Sharif (despite his many financial irregularities) and all others involved with the Ground Zero Mosque project are, in an effort to break down resistance to the project”
As a ‘journalist’ ( I use the term loosely), she is one of those responsible for all the despicable propaganda and whitewashing of scum like Gamal and Rauf, and Khan.
There **may** be a glimmer of shame here, and that’s why she spun it the way she did, but I doubt it. Far more likely she doesn’t want to underline the lies, omissions, bias and outright propaganda, that constitutes ‘journalism’ today.
On the bright side, that’s two mentions of Jihad Watch in the NYC msm, so no doubt there will be many who access this site in curiosity, but stay to read and learn.
inMAGICn says
Wasn’t it Sherman who said
“If a man is too lazy to work and too cowardly to steal, he becomes an editor?”
Sub “Otterman” for “a man,” “she” for “he,” and “journalist” for “editor” and voila.
mortimer says
Today’s cultural Marxists, such as Sharon Otterman are unacquainted with the doctrines of Islam, but are proud of that, rather than being ashamed of their lack of study regarding jihad, misogyny, cruel punishments and political supremacism. By being uninformed they will no doubt be able to claim ‘I did not know’, just as practically every German claimed ‘I did not know’ in 1945, including Albert Speer who most certainly did know.
Sharon Otterman looks the other way and pretends moral neutrality when Muslims are committing atrocities in most countries whilst quoting specific texts of the Koran and hadiths. These texts are understood by them according to the canonical commentaries of the consensus of Islam, but all that is way over Sharon Otterman’s head because she has done no study on the matter and so she be able to save herself from the accusation of intellectual sloth and moral turpitude by claiming ‘I did not know.’
While the atrocities are committed, defended and swept under the carpet, Sharon Otterman ‘did not know’.
voegelinian says
“Hi Robert,
…
Sharif El-Gamal, the developer of Park51, has just proposed a new plan for the former Burlington Coat Factory site near ground zero…
The Burlington Coat Factory, as Spencer has repeatedly pointed out before, is not “near” ground zero, but is at ground zero:
“I have been to the site, and can tell you: walk half a block down the street from the Burlington Coat Factory that is set to be the site of the mega-mosque, turn left, and you will see Ground Zero. Smith and Haberman have apparently never been to the site, as no one who has could characterize it as “a few blocks north.” It is actually just 600 feet away from Ground Zero.
“But also, and more importantly, the Burlington Coat Factory building is in a larger sense part of Ground Zero. The landing gear from one of the jetliners hijacked on September 11, 2001 flew into the building that the Islamic supremacists want to tear down to construct their mosque. That makes this building part of the 9/11 attack site, and will make the mosque — in the eyes of the Islamic world — exactly what the Dome of the Rock is: a mosque of victory built right on the site of the Muslim defeat of the Infidels. The Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque, built on the site of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, are declarations of the superiority of Islam over Judaism, and its victory over Judaism. The mosque at the Burlington Coat Factory site, built on the site — not near it, but on it, because of that landing gear — of the Islamic jihad attack on September 11, 2001, will be seen as a declaration of the superiority of Islam over the United States, and its victory over the American economic machine.
“The Burlington Coat Factory building, 45 Park Place, which was severely damaged by that part of one of the 9/11 planes, is Ground Zero, as is the former World Trade Center site.”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/08/where-will-the-ground-zero-mega-mosque-be-on-ground-zero
Bradamante says
Yes, I’ve heard reliable reports from people who’ve been there and timed it that you can walk from the WTC site to this mosque in well under a minute and a half. You can stand on one street corner and see both sites simply by turning your head. They’re much closer together than the apologists would like us to believe.
Michael Copeland says
“Mr. Sheinkopf said Mr. El-Gamal is not anticipating an outcry like the one he faced in 2010….”
Let him be greeted by an even greater one.
Bradamante says
I hope there will be one. I don’t know who organizes this kind of mass public protest and how to get on their mailing list. 🙂 The last time around, I was one of the clueless liberals who dismissed the opposition as “bigots.” This time, I would gladly take a trip to NYC to join the protest.
PJG says
Very good point. These people are not only proud of their ignorance but treat people who DO know as the enemy.
PJG says
I made a mistake. That comment was for Mortimer somewhere above. To Bradamante, wow: you were an “anti-bigot” type and then crossed over…a rare bird; usually people dig themselves in even deeper. Congratulations!
Angemon says
“To Bradamante, wow: you were an “anti-bigot” type and then crossed over…a rare bird; usually people dig themselves in even deeper. Congratulations!”
Sorry, but that reminded me of this:
dumbledoresarmy says
Contact Mr Spencer directly, or contact Pam Geller – it was Ms Geller who organised that last protest.
When the protest *is* held, those of us here who like me live in other countries can ask that our flags be displayed alongside the American flags, to indicate that this isn’t just about *Americans* protesting…because although, logically enough, the vast majority of those murdered were Americans (and those, if one looks at their surnames, were ancestrally from a pot-pourri of nations, the American “melting pot” right there in NYC), there were quite a lot of people from other countries, from among America’s historic allies and trading partners – and sparring partners – who were killed too: 67 UK citizens, 41 citizens of India (mostly Hindu, to judge from the names I’ve seen), 41 Dominicans, 28 South Koreans, 24 Canadians, 24 Japanese, 15 Mexicans, 15 Filipinos, 11 Australians, 11 Germans, 10 Italians, 5 Israelis, 5 Irish… that’s not the full list, but it’s enough to give an idea of the fact that the “World Trade Centre” really *was* the WORLD Trade Centre. When Osama Bin Laden struck at it, he was striking not only at the USA, but at the entire non-Muslim world. We are *all* represented amongst the dead, there in NYC. Indians, Americans, East Asians, Africans, English and Australian, Jewish and Christian and Hindu and Buddhist and secular/ atheist, our ashes were intermingled in that vast pyre.
And we can *all* get angry at the idea of Muslims gloating over that place where their cowardly strikers-from-ambush mass-murdered our kin.
citycat says
Reform Islam?
Try reforming cancer.
Islam is a war from the horror in the est to the pretentious chat about integration, which will change to Sharia once their numbers allow.
Islam is programmatically taking the michael
Tradewinds says
Islam cannot be reformed. Neither can Fascism and Nazism. The only way to reform Islam is to abolish it.
citycat says
Some forced to follow Islam would like that
Bradamante says
I think many of us here make that distinction, or one similar. There are MINOs (Muslim In Name Only) who don’t even know all that much about Islamic doctrine. There are a few people (like Zuhdi Jasser) who seem to be sincere about wanting reform. But we can’t rely on the MINOs and the handful of reformers to save us from the Qur’an-thumpers, and in fact their presence helps to provide cover for the True Believers, unfortunately. In any case, I think that this distinction is part of why almost nobody here is advocating going out on the street and harassing individual Muslims, who may well be MINOs anyway. The point, as I understand it, is to stand up against the *doctrine* and the powerful organizations that are pushing it. As Robert Spencer keeps saying, he’s anti-Islam, not anti-Muslim.
voegelinian says
The MINO is the new Moderate Muslim — repackaged but the same specious artificial category for which we do not have sufficiently reliable information — not when our concern is the safety of our societies, and when the potential dangers are as horrific as we reasonable suppose they are (and will continue to be).
You can play Muslim Roulette with MINOs with your own life, but not with my life and the lives of my loved ones and fellow citizens.
Mirren10 says
You say you have friends who call themselves muslims, but do not follow Islamic doctrine, and are therefore not true muslims.
Have you ever discussed islam and its doctrines with them ? Or the character of mohammed ?
A few questions about the paedophilic rape of Aisha, mohammed’s statement he was made victorious by terror, and what the Koran says about Jews and Christians, and the answers might surprise you, especially if you keep pushing.
PJG says
But watch out! The “surprise” might not be very pleasant…make sure you have an escape route planned!
voegelinian says
Sorry, that’s not even anywhere remotely in the vicinity of being near the outer edges of the ballpark of being sufficient information for me even to entertain possibly speculating about even beginning to consider playing Muslim Roulette with my life, the lives of my loved ones, and the lives of my fellow citizens.
That it apparently is much more clearly and solidly for you is dismaying and disturbing, if not suspicious.
mark says
New York city is ground zero for the USA eating itself into nothing from the inside out. How a city could elect a Muslim for president so soon after 9/11 happened is the proof of this. The sensible minority must withstand the leftists and the terrorist-types with all the noise, news, legal action, and prayers that they can dredge up.
Tradewinds says
I don’t think BHO is a Muslim, but he is a huge Muslim/Islam sympathizer. No doubt there.
How any sane and intelligent American could support a mosk around Ground Zero is beyond me. That we’re even permitting mosks in our country is like letting in the Trojan Horse. Beware of Muslims saying they’re peaceful.
D.C. Watson says
Swords, machetes, Molotov cocktails, explosives, rape and woman beating manuals, Islamic supremacist handbooks and a public address system piping in the Jihad supporters’ ongoing cries of Islamophobia.
Should all fit into one dusty, mouse-ridden broom closet.
At this point, building anything, be it a terrorist museum or a triumphal (cowardly sneak attack) mosque will look like nothing more than the Freedom Tower’s little outhouse.
Billy Bones says
No need to get all worked up about this because this scammer will never actually start work on the thing. But let’s say just for the sake of discussion that he actually is able to build it. One of its purposes is showcase Islamic art. Will there be any paintings of Mohammed? Will there be any music concerts? Will there be any dance performances?
Bezelel says
LOL, If it is to house all of islams contributions to humanity, they don’t need much space. All they have to show for themselves is sickening.
Angemon says
Has Manuel II Palaiologos, one of the last Christian rulers before the Fall of Constantinople to the Muslim Ottoman Empire, said:
Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.
A scimitar, a severed body part and shackles. That would accurately portrait what muhamm… i mean, islam, has to show for itself.
PJG says
We have an Islamic museum in my area and it has no pictures of Mohammed, of course, but it does have one huge portrait of the local silver-tongued Muslim Brotherhood operative/apologist who is adored by countless Australian dhimmis.
dumbledoresarmy says
Walid Aly?
PJG says
Yep (Waleed).
Jax Tolmen says
What museum specifically are you referring to? I would be very interested in seeing it out of curiosity – I would assume it is somewhere in the West of Sydney. Even a vague hint would be helpful. I’m not sure they would let me in, given my appearance though.
Muslim Imams preaching and recruiting on the streets steer very clear of me for some reason.
annieoakley says
Mr. Spencer,
You are so reasoned and diplomatic in your response to the aggression of Islam even when asked for an opinion. I really do not know how you do this. I read something like the above and want to scream and I will not be in NYC nor go anywhere near ground zero should I ever visit NYC, again. It is a crime that memorial in PA is so compromised. I think YOU are a Saint.
Rolf Wittwer says
AMERCA WAKE-UP ! P L E A S E !!!!
Wellington says
Tough call who’s more reprehensible——-Sharif El-Gamal or Sharon Otterman. Reasonable minds can differ respecting whether malevolence or covering for malevolence is the greater sin.
Personally, I favor the latter. If no cover, then evil can be dispatched with relative ease. Should history teach any lesson, it teaches this.
Transmaster says
I ask you who is Sharif El-Gamal going to get to build his museum the labor and construction unions in New York City won’t touch it. The unions of New York lost hundred of brothers and sisters in the 9/11 attack. and Sharif the slum lord sure isn’t going to be able to bring anyone in the build it They can Allah Akbar all they want but if a bunch of steel workers descends upon their bodies……………:D
Angemon says
Well, Saudi Arabia has lots and lots of sand, the Assyrians used concrete long before the arabs invaded them, there’s water all around, Malaysian plane pilots can hijack more planes to get metal for the support beams, and Somalia can provide cheap labour. All halal, and the US economy gets no benefit from it.
wildjew says
Museum to Allah and his messenger and what his disciples wrought on September 11, 2001.
jewdog says
Just think what a great thing a museum dedicated to Islam would be on the site of 9/11. It would finally give the public a realistic look at the people who perpetrated the attacks and their ideology. There could be exhibits featuring excerpts from Robert’s books with photos of people jumping to their deaths while passages of the Koran calling for the killing of infidels are played in the background.
It would be a sort of Yad Vashem for 9/11, an educational opportunity in which to absorb the hard lessons of inhumane ideology and the savages that propagate it. Go for it!
sidney penny says
The movie “Fitna” will be shown continuously in the main hall of the museum.
Here is a taste:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_(film)
sidney penny says
” If Sharif wants to improve the image of Islam, a mosque celebrating its purported glories at Ground Zero will not do the trick; only a concerted effort to reform Islam and counter the jihadist narrative within Muslim communities will accomplish that.”
“You can pass along to him that I am still willing to do so, but that if he wants to convince people that Islam is a religion of peace, building Islamic museums and having talks with unbelievers won’t do it; only solid work to refute the jihadist understanding of Islam and convince young Muslims that it is wrong will accomplish that. What is Sharif doing toward that end?”
How true Robert.How profound.
Having talks with unbelievers won’t do it ( or the “West”).Definitely won’t do it.
Especially unbelievers who have been educated by Robert Spencer or
Sita Ram Goel or
Koenraad Elst who has been criticized for saying that Islam is the problem.
Isn’t this similar to
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/01/dallas-muslim-group-to-hold-5k-walk-against-islamophobia
Walking does not help.
If Unleashed really wants to end “Islamophobia,” here is how they can accomplish it.
They can call upon Muslim individuals and groups to:
…………
By the way Robert you are not anti Muslim but are you “right wing”?
Whatever that means.
Kasey says
If that Islamic museum ever does get the nod, I wonder if, in the art section, they will display a selection from photographs which illustrate vividly, some of over 22000 Islamic terrorist attacks, from around the World since 9/11, to show how peaceful Islam is towards the West and to its own from the Sunni/Shi’a divide.
Kasey says
And when will The White House wake up to the fact that the USA is under attack from within from Islam, as well as threats from without?
Buraq says
Why not open an on-line ‘Museum of Islam’ and show the barbarity of these clowns over the centuries? Exhibits could be added easily – photos, videos, articles etc….
Then the RezaAslan would really hit the fan!
Jax Tolmen says
You could rename “The Religion of Peace” website to the “Unabridged Islamic Museum” and you would basically have what you’re asking for.
onisac says
How is it that a Muslim owns that property rather than a U.S. citizen or the City of New York? The United States should be made aware that properties own be Muslims will never again belong to civilized people. History will show no difference, than this article.
Robiekop says
The NYT is full of selfhating Jews. Ms Otterman is probably one of them.
ben t says
Robie -Kop there is a HUGE truth in what you say about self-hating Jews but they are all over the U.S. and in Israel itself! Just like ALL other American groups, protestants, catholics, et.al everybody has to clean out the American-haters in their ranks.
bill says
I think this is a great idea. Islam really does belong in a museum just like other old outdated things. All the other religions should be in a museum also. The best place for them, let us hope it will one day become the normal thing in a truly enlightened society which has put superstition behind it.
duh_swami says
This is the guy who said that beating people up was good for exercise and stress relief. Don’t stand to close to him Robert…I once did a search of his real estate dealings. He seemed to be a shady slumlord and owed all kinds of money, and was the subject of several lawsuits, or his company was. So I wonder how he keeps in enough cash to survive more less build this mosque in disguise.
Vluk says
I find it rather unfortunate that a great country like the US has to put up with reporters like this Sharon Otterman. I have never heard about her before this article, yet clearly I can see she does not care about her own country and people and is gladly doing what she can to betray them.
I wonder how she will respond on the day that a Muslim puts a knife to her throat and demands the she covers herself with a hijab?
RANDY DOUGLAS MILLER says
THEY’RE BLOOKING YOU AGAIN ON FACEBOOK
awake says
I met Gamal prior to the first mosque proposal. The photo is apt as I clearly saw the devil in his eyes.
The location of 51 Park is indeed very close to where the towers were situated. Mere blocks away.
Like others, it will be interesting to see what contractor will agree to erect this structure.
Sharon Otterman is indeed a world class ass-hat who apparently has no interest in even reading the mission statement of Jihad Watch, let alone representing it or Robert’s work in a fair or accurate manner.
kate brennan says
The history and ‘culture’ of Islam ought to be in a museum, where it rightly belongs alongside other artifacts of the 7th century. It has no right, or use in the 21st century alongside other civilized societies.
PatnCat says
I don’t approve at all of this insult to American people that were murdered under the name of Islam, the Koran and hate filled Muslims. Keep Ground Zero for the memory of murdered AMERICANS, not the murderer’s triumph on one terrible day. I don’t think any American will agree to this further insult and stupidity and when these people keep pushing and pushing and pushing at us, then why are they surprised when they get pushed right back? I lost many of my Army colleagues in the Pentagon attack, I think of them always. What a hateful political system Islam is. And I read the Koran – just last year – and I was appalled. It is not the religion of peace shoved on us by smiling imams and our politicians. FREE PEOPLE OF the USA and the WORLD hate Islam, the Koran is all a made up big mess that Charlie Manson could have written, Mohaha is no more a prophet than my neighbor’s dog.