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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Muslim cleric: Muslims in West should “demand their rights” to practice polygamy

Apr 12, 2014 6:49 pm By Robert Spencer

polygamyWe have seen the principle reinforced again and again: wherever Islamic law and Western law conflict, it is Western law that has to give way. And so here, despite claims from Islamic groups in the West that they have no interest in bringing Sharia to the West, we see a Muslim sheikh in Germany call for Muslims to demand the legalization of polygamy in the West.

The Canadian Muslim scholar Jamal Badawi adds a second answer, in which he makes clear that he also hopes the West will legalize polygamy. Dr. Jamal Badawi was several years ago a leading “moderate Muslim.” His “moderate” credentials were a bit tarnished, however, when he was named an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation Hamas terror funding case. Oh, and also, Jamal Badawi owes me a million dollars: several years ago, he offered a cool mil to anyone who could find a single verse in the Qur’an that condoned “religious war, or jihad.” I found plenty, but oddly enough, the good doctor never has paid up!

“Having a Second Wife in Western Countries,” from OnIslam, March 28 (thanks to Halal Pork Shop):

Name of Questioner: Safanah

Reply date: 2014/03/28

Question: It is known that polygamy—more correctly, polygyny—is allowed in Islam. I would like to know the point of view of Islam if a Muslim living in a Western country, where polygamy is regarded unlawful, has to have a second wife due to some reasons.

consultant: Dr.Jamal Badawi

Answer

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear questioner! Thank you for your question and the confidence you place in our service and we pray to Allah to enable us render this service purely for His Sake.Islam is a way of life consonant with nature, providing human solutions to complex situations and avoiding extremes. This characteristic of Islam can be observed most clearly in its stand concerning the taking of more than one wife. Islam permits the Muslim to marry more than one woman in order to resolve some very pressing human problems, individual as well as social.

The prominent Muslim scholar, Sheikh Ahmad Hulail, imam of Tariq ibn Ziad Mosque in Frankfort, Germany, states,

Polygamy is a thorny issue, particularly in the Western countries. The West claims that many of women’s rights in the Muslim countries are violated and regard polygamy as one of the signs of this violation.

It is true that polygamy is allowed in Islam, but it is to be borne in mind that there are many juristic points to be regarded in that respect. But let’s concentrate on the point raised in the question, i.e., what the Muslim man who resides in a Western country should do if he has to have a second wife. The European countries incriminate the man who has a second wife, yet, alas, they allow him to have free sexual relationships with a woman other than his wife.

With regard to the Muslim man who has a second wife, I believe—and Almighty Allah knows best—that he has to follow the channels of law in order to legalize his second marriage in the country he lives in. There are some Muslim brothers who did so through the legitimate channels. They submitted documents to the European countries they reside in to the effect that they have second wives according to the Islamic Law and that the first wives agree to that; they also asserted that they would not give a privilege to one of the wives at the expense of the other. I know a Jordanian Muslim who managed to get residence for his two wives in a European country.

If the attempts to legalize the second marriage fail, the person could document his (second) marriage in one of the Islamic centers, yet, his marriage then would not be regarded legitimate under the law of the country concerned. The problem he might face in the future is regarding getting birth certificates for the children from his second wife. But I think there are some flexible European laws concerning registering names of the children born even from illegitimate relationships.

I advise the Muslims who live in the Western countries to demand their rights in that regard. Foreign non-Muslim minorities who live in the West managed to get approval to exercise their rights pursuant to their religious rituals, such as rights concerning slaughtering animals and burying their dead. Muslims can follow in the same footsteps to get legitimate approvals from the Western countries to exercise the rituals of their religion freely.

Focusing more on this issue, the prominent Muslim scholar Dr. Jamal Badawi, professor at Saint Mary’s University in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada and member of the Fiqh Council of North America, adds,

Polygamy is an example where there is a difference between what is legitimate in Islamic Shari`ah and what is considered illegitimate in secular societies. I am not discussing the problem of polygamy; or whether polygamy or monogamy is the norm in Islam; or whether, as many people mistakenly think, Islam really introduced polygamy; or that it is the only Abrahamic religion that limited the number and put conditions. There is no mention of limiting the number of wives either in the Old Testimony or the New Testimony; there are some Christians, like Martin Luther, who said that there is no Biblical evidence to the prohibition of polygamy.

I must say, in the first place, why would a particular person want to have a second wife, even though it might be acceptable or legitimate under the Islamic Shari`ah? Because there is also a spirit of why polygamy has been permitted even though it has not been codified in the Qur’an.

Secondly, a Muslim living in a non-Muslim society is obligated to follow the laws. We cannot say that their laws are contrary to the Shari`ah, so we have to follow the Shari`ah. Taking a second wife is not a necessary requirement; there is no mandatory duty on the Muslim to have a second wife.

If a person has become a resident or a citizen in a European country, it is a condition for him to abide by its laws. When a Muslim man in a European country sticks to not having a second wife, it is like giving up a particular right according to his own Shari`ah. The person who has a second wife could be subject to criminal punishment.

If, however, in the future the non-Muslim societies give Muslims the same right to their personal law that Islam gives to its minorities, that is a different issue. It is known that historically and, in principle, Islam does allow religious minorities to have their own personal law regarding marriage, divorce, division of the estate, and custody of the children according to their own religious teachings. The Christians in Egypt enjoy such a right though they are only a tiny portion of the population. If the Western world reciprocated to Muslims in the West the same kind of tolerance and acceptance of autonomy in issues pertinent to religious practice, including marriage, I think polygamy would be quiet legitimate, and there would be no contradiction between what is permissible under the Islamic Shari`ah and what is permissible under the Western laws.

However, there are strange and contradictory situations in the West. For example, in Canada it has become quite legal for people to get married homosexually with all their rights, including pension, taxes, etc., reserved. I think there is also a pressure in the United States to have something similar. Adultery and fornication have also been permissible in the West for a long period of time. It sounds rather strange that when all these are permitted and some become legal, marrying a second wife is not permitted and is regarded as a criminal act.

To allow homosexuality in the name of liberalism and freedom is a kind of diversion from the innate or fitrah nature in which Almighty Allah created humankind. In terms of our perspectives as Muslims and in terms of the moral standards, this is a setback and decline in the world today.

Allah Almighty knows best.

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Filed Under: Islamic supremacism, Sharia, women's rights in Islam Tagged With: featured


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Comments

  1. gerard says

    Apr 12, 2014 at 7:18 pm

    Pigamy.

    • john spielman says

      Apr 12, 2014 at 9:21 pm

      That’s exactly what I was thinking!

      • mortimer says

        Apr 12, 2014 at 9:51 pm

        Monogamy is one the greatest blessings to women and a great equalizer that raises the status of women.

        Polygamy combined with wife-beating and the facile Islamic divorce procedure favoring men turns women into true slaves.

        For those reasons, no civilized country may tolerate Islamic polygamy to defend women’s equal human rights and dignity.

    • Jay Boo says

      Apr 12, 2014 at 10:30 pm

      Only four wives are allowed.

      Strange how he seemed to put on a lot of weight around the time his fifth wife disappeared.

      • E. Barak says

        Apr 13, 2014 at 12:13 am

        4 wives at any one time. That is why a man can divorce any of his wives at will and marry again when he buys himself a hottie.

      • Defcon 4 says

        Apr 13, 2014 at 2:41 am

        My friends used to know a Saudi family. At one point there were rumors the mother had looked into a divorce. The mother supposedly “visited” Saudi Arabia and was never seen again. When asked why his mother never came back and was never heard from again (i.e. by her friends in the US) one of the sons said she had died of an aspirin overdose while in Soddy Barbaria.

    • harbidoll says

      Apr 13, 2014 at 4:37 am

      have they found the 1 polygamist who (apparently) isn’t into little girls?

      • Islamisdeath says

        Apr 13, 2014 at 2:20 pm

        They were probably little girls when he bought them.

      • gravenimage says

        Apr 13, 2014 at 8:49 pm

        harbidoll, I love your username!

      • bluenoser says

        Apr 14, 2014 at 1:19 pm

        Not yet, kind of elusive like the holy grail…

  2. richard Sherman says

    Apr 12, 2014 at 7:25 pm

    They should demand their right to practice self- jihad….all one billion of them.

  3. Wellington says

    Apr 12, 2014 at 7:41 pm

    Two points: 1) What rights? Muslims demanding rights in the West virtually ALWAYS smacks of hypocrisy, ignorance and parasitism. After all, what rights, real rights, true rights, have non-Muslims ever had in Muslim lands?; 2) Is it just me or are the vast majority of Muslim women when presented in visual form, as here in this photo, truly anything but butt ugly? I mean copulating with these poor excuses for the female gender in order for the human species to survive would itself be a huge sacrifice and not a pleasure—–and should, in any case, not be done so if all it produced was more clueless Mohammedans.

    Ah, Islam can’t get anything right. Not freedom, not equality under the law, not tolerance, not any meaningful progress, not a true Golden Rule for all, certainly not the capacity for admitting wrongdoing——-Holy Hell, not even its women, respecting which deficiency, I will here observe, is due in large part, not entirely but in large part, to the even greater deficiency of Islam’s men.

    • gerard says

      Apr 12, 2014 at 7:55 pm

      “Muslim women… butt ugly”
      Especially the one with the beard!

      • Angemon says

        Apr 12, 2014 at 8:15 pm

        Hey, cut her some slack, she’s clearly expecting a baby. I mean, twins. Triplets. Or quadruplets.

    • Reality Check says

      Apr 13, 2014 at 4:57 am

      Wellington, you made my day! And yes, based on my observations, most Muslim women are indeed butt ugly. A good looking Muslim woman is normally one without appalling deformities, and what’s more, most of them are so unpolished. No true manners. No true gentleness and refinement. They are essentially rough creatures.

      • Wellington says

        Apr 13, 2014 at 12:48 pm

        Thank you, Reality Check. I occasionally see a good looking Muslima but for years now I’ve noticed that most of them are mediocre looking or worse. Family and friends of mine have noticed this too.

        • Reality Check says

          Apr 13, 2014 at 2:26 pm

          Hmm, I do suspect that the rare good-looking Muslims are actually American and European by birth. Who knows? I do know, however, that I’ve seen and heard about many clueless non-Muslim women who choose to marry Muslims because the latter managed to sweep them off their feet with a language taken straight from the Harlequin novels. Trust me, those animals know how to speak – that must be God’s or Devil’s compensation for the fact that they were deprived of true morals and true intellect.

  4. Tradewinds says

    Apr 12, 2014 at 7:52 pm

    Muslims do not get to out-breed everyone else. The entire non-Muslim world should stand united against islamic polygamy. Talk about Demographic Jihad. It should be outlawed.

    • Jay Boo says

      Apr 12, 2014 at 8:53 pm

      At least the wives all appear to be old enough to have completed elementary school.
      Then again there is no telling of when they originally became his wives.

    • Defcon 4 says

      Apr 13, 2014 at 2:46 am

      @Tradewinds

      The end game for the islam0nazi is to have the najjis kaffir paying for
      the “right” of the poor islam0nazi to have a harem he could not otherwise afford.

  5. gerard says

    Apr 12, 2014 at 8:02 pm

    “Islam is a way of life consonant with nature, providing human solutions to complex situations and avoiding extremes.”
    That would be funny if not for the murder, mayhem and destruction inflicted daily on a clueless world by these barbarians.

  6. gerard says

    Apr 12, 2014 at 8:11 pm

    “I advise the Muslims who live in the Western countries to demand their rights in that regard. ”
    I advise Western countries to kick these pigs out of their countries!

    • Defcon 4 says

      Apr 13, 2014 at 2:48 am

      You’ll have to consider what to do w/the traitors and collaborators in your government first.

      • kikorikid says

        Apr 13, 2014 at 2:01 pm

        D4, There you go again, talkin common sense again!

  7. Angemon says

    Apr 12, 2014 at 8:13 pm

    “many people mistakenly think, Islam really introduced polygamy; or that it is the only Abrahamic religion that limited the number and put conditions. There is no mention of limiting the number of wives either in the Old Testimony or the New Testimony; there are some Christians, like Martin Luther, who said that there is no Biblical evidence to the prohibition of polygamy.”

    The guy claims that many people mistakenly think Islam is the only Abrahamic religion (and for the sake of the argument let’s pretend islam is an Abrahamic religion) that limited the number and put conditions and then proceeds to say that here is no mention of limiting the number of wives either in the Old Testimony[sic] or the New Testimony[sic]. Well, if there is no mention of limiting the number of wives in the OT or NT, and if islam forbids marrying more than 4 wives simultaneously, then those people mistakenly think Islam is the only Abrahamic religion that limited the number and put conditions are not doing so mistakingly. Islam does set numbers and conditions. Muhammad had a non-specified number of wives while all other muslims can only have 4. Also, if he’s using the OT and NT to back his claim about islam, then he’s conceding that the OT and NT are not corrupt. But islam contradicts them, so it can’t be the final revelation of God. In fact, there’s plenty of evidence to back the argument that islam is man-made, so it should stop receiving religion benefits from all governments in the world.

    • bill says

      Apr 13, 2014 at 6:49 am

      ALL religions are man made. The Egyptian pantheon, the Greek pantheon, the Viking pantheon, the Hindu Pantheon etc. etc. A tribe in Africa believes mankind was created from the excrement of ants! No religions should have any special consideration. Stop pretending that Christianity is uniquely from’god’ that is the whole problem with Islam.

      • Jay Boo says

        Apr 13, 2014 at 10:43 am

        @bill
        Why did you bother with off topic (ALL religions are man made.)
        just to end with …
        “Stop pretending that Christianity is uniquely from’god’ that is the whole problem with Islam”
        =============

        So you believe that “Christianity is the whole problem with Islam”

        • Jay Boo says

          Apr 13, 2014 at 10:47 am

          @ bill
          You attack Christianity
          but you defend the well-known troll Ismail Mohamed.

      • Angemon says

        Apr 13, 2014 at 10:45 am

        Oh, hush and turn your brain on for a change, ignorant one. What you just did was a textbook example of a strawman – a misrepresentation of my argument. Either criticize what i actually post or stick to creative writing under Reza Aslan.

      • Chilee says

        Apr 13, 2014 at 12:09 pm

        Excrement of ant? Haah.
        Now all fall into place. Picture explain.

      • thomas_h says

        Apr 13, 2014 at 3:59 pm

        “Stop pretending that Christianity is uniquely from’god’ that is the whole problem with Islam.”

        …uh, what…?

      • thomas_h says

        Apr 13, 2014 at 4:07 pm

        “Stop pretending that Christianity is uniquely from’god’ that is the whole problem with Islam.”

        For someone to pretend “Christianity is uniquely from God” would require pretending he is a Christian.

    • Jay Boo says

      Apr 13, 2014 at 10:36 am

      “Muhammad had a non-specified number of wives while all other muslims can only have 4.”

      Thanks for bringing that up Angemon

      It appears that the satanic verse voices told Muhammad exactly what he wanted to hear.
      Either that or Muhammad made it all up while hiding from the law in a dark cave.

    • cranky.white.woman says

      Apr 13, 2014 at 4:49 pm

      If he bothered to read the Bible with any sort of comprehension, he would know that monogamy is promoted in it.

      In the OT, Genesis 2:24 tells us “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” (It says wife, not wives.)

      In the NT, Matthew 19:26 says “So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” (It says “they are no longer two, but one flesh,” not they are no longer five, but a melting pot.)

      And Paul told the church leaders to have only one wife.

  8. John Magee says

    Apr 12, 2014 at 8:17 pm

    If liberals are consistent they should support polygamy in the name of “marriage equality”. I can’t wait to see the left squirm out of this one when Muslims start to howl discrimination (and they would be correct). This is going to be fun to watch.

    • PJG says

      Apr 12, 2014 at 8:46 pm

      No, it’s not going to be fun.
      My neighbour seriously belives in polygamy, or polyamory as she calls it, she not being a big fan of marriage. To her the Muslim practice of polygamy is entirely consistent with her tolerance of polyamory. She doesn’t undestand what it will mean to our civilisation as to her mind is just on being cool and progressive and tolerant (of everything weird, that is).
      There are many like her. They are cool about gay marriage and cool about Islam and Islamic polygamy and don’t see the contradiction. They won’t read articles like this; they just talk together and affirm each other and don’t read.
      I don’t find that funny. it’s scary.

      • John Magee says

        Apr 13, 2014 at 12:51 am

        Watching liberals distance themselves as far away from Muslims demanding “marriage equality” rights by making polygamy legal will be “fun” to watch. It will show what hypocrites liberals really are. They are the ones who opened Pandora’s Box when they pushed for gay “marriage” under the guise of “marriage equality”. Let’s see if liberals are consistent and demand marriage equality for Muslims in the form of polygamy as they were for gay “marriage”. This had to happen sooner or later.

      • gravenimage says

        Apr 13, 2014 at 11:16 pm

        PJG wrote:

        No, it’s not going to be fun.
        My neighbour seriously belives in polygamy, or polyamory as she calls it, she not being a big fan of marriage. To her the Muslim practice of polygamy is entirely consistent with her tolerance of polyamory. She doesn’t undestand what it will mean to our civilisation as to her mind is just on being cool and progressive and tolerant (of everything weird, that is).
        There are many like her…
        I don’t find that funny. it’s scary.
        …………………………..

        I couldn’t agree more, PJG.

        I know quite a few people like your neighbor. While I am not personally much of a fan of “polyamory”, I know that none of these people intend to force anyone into such a situation—it is entirely voluntary, and if it proves not to anyone’s taste, comfort zone, or morals, they can freely leave.

        So, many of these well-meaning but flaky people assume that *it is just the same with Islam*.

        *Nothing* could be further from the truth—forced marriages; Muslims marrying second, third, and fourth wives without even bothering to tell their current wife(s); and summary divorce (the “Triple Talaq”) when a man decides he wants to add further to his stable by discarding some of the older ones—*none* of this is anything “polyamory” types can conceive of.

        Like you, I see *nothing* “fun” about the specter of naïve free-love neo-hippies inadvertently enabling oppressive, soul-crushing Islam.

        Sure, if you’re feeling sadistic, it might be “fun” to see the expression on their faces when they learn what Islamic polygamy really is—but at what cost of suffering for them and everyone else in our society?

        Personally, I’m not so nihilistic to *ever* relish the coming of that day. Instead, I—and, I hope, everyone here with the stated exception of John Magee—will do everything they can to forestall polygamy and Shari’ah law here.

        • PJG says

          Apr 14, 2014 at 9:23 am

          Gravenimage: I think that people like John Magee are just TRYING to think it is all rather fun. As my sister says, polyamory/polygamy might “work” on an individual basis but the big problem is when it becomes institutionalised.
          Then everyone is sucked into the vortex…that is the culture everyone has to deal with.
          I remember a man in Sudan telling me proudly “I have only one wife!” He loved her. But it was so weird to hear him say that as a defensive proclamation.
          But I have so many memories of Sudan, and so many are to do with this very issue. First wife…second wife…female circumcision and the “need” for a second, uncircumcised wife…unhappy kids…junior wife raising the kids of first wife who left in despair…and so on.

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 14, 2014 at 3:55 pm

          Agreed, PJG. Institutionalized polygamy is terribly destructive, especially to women and children.

          I’m glad to hear about the one man you met in Sudan with the one wife he loved—but I know it very far from the norm there and in many other parts of the Muslim world.

  9. jewdog says

    Apr 12, 2014 at 8:19 pm

    The state should have nothing to do with marriage, which should strictly be a private contract between consenting adults. One should be able to have as many wives or husbands as one wants.
    Where the state needs to get involved is in the matter of welfare benefits. Citizens will balk at providing benefits in polygamous households because of the added costs.
    Allowing polygamy could hasten demands for restrictions on Muslim immigration out of economic concerns.

    • Wellington says

      Apr 12, 2014 at 8:51 pm

      Disagree, jewdog. Without the state involved at all in marriage, a man could leave his wife and children and not have to provide any alimony or child support (this goes to the contractual element of marriage and the state has to be involved with the enforcement of contracts). Without government involvement in marriage, per your recommendation, a woman, married to a man, could determine she wants to also be married to another man as well. Without any state supervision, a man could, a la Islam, declare that he is henceforth divorced from his wife per Islam’s doctrine. Without state supervision, no married person would be obligated in the least to their spouse when making out their will. And I could go on and on with such examples. They would be legion in number.

      In short, if the state has nothing at all to do with the fundamental social building block of society, it will have turned its back on a very huge part of the reason why it exists in the first place. Reconsider, because the state not involved at all in marriage is a short route to social chaos for any society, all the while posing as something enlightened which it most definitely is not. Indeed, it’s super dumb.

      • jewdog says

        Apr 12, 2014 at 9:29 pm

        Wellington,
        You are correct in stating that the state needs to regulate contracts which could be formed as a result of marriages, such as obligations to children or other dependents, but the nature of the marriage itself should not enter.

        • Wellington says

          Apr 12, 2014 at 9:53 pm

          Oh yes it should otherwise two women could marry one man or two men could marry one woman or two men could marry three women or a man could marry another man (or two men or three) or a woman another woman along with a man or…, or…, or…. Per you approach, there is no way to forbid virtually any arrangement as long as you have consenting adults. Is this want you want? Consent, and love too, are not enough. Form is critical also lest marital chaos ensue.

          The state has to set the parameters of marriage, for instance the way it did back in the 1890s with Utah Territory wanting to become the 45th state. If it hadn’t, Mormon polygamy would not just be marginal today but extensive and polygamy is an absolute guarantee that women can never be equal to men. The implications for a polity not setting marital requirements are virtually all downhill.

        • harbidoll says

          Apr 13, 2014 at 5:04 am

          the boys grow up hating & competing with men (including their fathers) as they watch them scoop up all the girls leaving a shortage of wives for them!! the men then have to think of ways to rid the love-starved boys from town, usually by starting a war! (please think above your waist). to get a wife for ones many sons, a father has to “secure or order” betroth a girl soon after her birth , thru bribes or cash from her father. then move her into the boys house as soon as is exceptable . the girl HAS NO SAY!!!! about the most important thing in a girls life,marrage. this hasn’t saved 1 “old maid”. get real!

    • PJG says

      Apr 12, 2014 at 8:51 pm

      “Tolerant”, multiculti types don’t think about money. They think the government is sitting on piles of unlimited cash, much of which should be lavished on “asylum seekers” and horrible art.
      It’s funny how the gay marriage advocates are desperate FOR government recognition of their relationships. Yet they are often the most strident of anti-government activists.

      • jewdog says

        Apr 12, 2014 at 9:32 pm

        What you say is true about those overly generous multiculti types, but then we have cheap bastards like you to counterbalance them.

    • Defcon 4 says

      Apr 13, 2014 at 2:55 am

      Welfare for pisslamic polygamy? It’s already going on in the UK.

    • John Magee says

      Apr 13, 2014 at 11:26 am

      JD. If you are consistent about the state not having anything to do with the definition of marriage I hope you are open for all possibilities of individuals or groups defining “marriage” as they see fit including a child marrying a parent or a brother or sister (incest laws will have to be changed to suit the demands of “equal marriage”), human animal marriages (bestiality laws will also have to be changed), a person marrying a tree and another other serious or ridiculous definition of marriage people may demand in the name of “marriage equality”. If you don’t remember the story from Greek mythology about Pandora’s Box please Google it. Its become true today.

  10. Angemon says

    Apr 12, 2014 at 8:25 pm

    “Oh, and also, Jamal Badawi owes me a million dollars: several years ago, he offered a cool mil to anyone who could find a single verse in the Qur’an that condoned “religious war, or jihad.” I found plenty, but oddly enough, the good doctor never has paid up!”

    Al-Rasooli described muhammad as a lecherous thieving child-molesting highway-robbing misogynistic false prophet sociopath, backed his statements with quotes from the quran, hadiths and classic muslim commentators and said he’d pay a large amount of money to anyone who managed to disprove what he has verified. Not surprisingly, until today no one managed to claim that prize.

  11. somehistory says

    Apr 12, 2014 at 8:37 pm

    The New Testament, Jesus said: God made them male and female, and the “two would become one flesh, so they are no longer two.” So, the guy knows not of what he speaks when saying there is nothing written in the NT against having more than one wife. Maybe his problem comes in part from not knowing that one and one equals two, not one and three equals two, or one and four equals two. Or maybe it comes in whole from reading and believing the lies of islam.

    There is no logic with these people. They hate women, women are the lowest of the low and yet, they want more than one to occupy their homes and are more than willing to make waves to get approval.
    I am so thankful that I can see what nonsense islam is, what evil it is. And that Robert Spencer and others see it for what it is.

  12. Jay Boo says

    Apr 12, 2014 at 8:48 pm

    Is this Muslim cleric saying that a non-Muslim man can have up to four Muslim wives?

    • PJG says

      Apr 12, 2014 at 8:55 pm

      it would appear he does; but I don’t think he would appreciate the competition! The great thing about Islamic polygamy is that they have the “right” to pilfer the women of other religions.

      • enwhitenment says

        Apr 13, 2014 at 2:57 am

        PJG
        pilfer ?
        In present time we call such acts kidnapping, child stealing, slavery.
        Such acts foreshadow sexual assault , rape & bondage.
        No one has the “right” to commit such acts.

        Disappointing to me is that females have a greater capacity to reason right from wrong so as to protect their offspring.
        Yet you & Dismail believe that by assuming a different gender & posting false posts that you can deceive & lie believing you have the “right” to such acts.
        Considering that the community in general has treated you well, why do you spread the unacceptable practices that you are most likely to suffer from at some point.
        Free yourself while you can

        • PJG says

          Apr 13, 2014 at 3:52 am

          Enwhitenment: I’m not a Muslim, and pilfer means steal in small quantities. A frivolous word, I guess, for what happens but generally in this age and this culture I see them picking off non-Muslim women one by one. They tell us they are “allowed” to marry non-Muslims, and I have seen plenty of that both here and overseas when they choose as a second wife a n0n-Muslim woman in straitened circumstances. To them it is their “right” because that is the way they think, as we see above in the article.
          You must be new here if you don’t know my stance on all this!

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 13, 2014 at 11:42 pm

          enwhitenment wrote, replying to PJG:

          Yet you & Dismail believe that by assuming a different gender & posting false posts that you can deceive & lie believing you have the “right” to such acts.
          ……………….

          Enwhitenment, I’m not sure *where* you got the idea that PJG is some sort of Muslim apologist.

          She is a long time poster at Jihad Watch, and one of the most stalwart Anti-Jihadists here.

          She also does a great deal to oppose Jihad in her “real” life, as well—*far more* than most people here, including myself.

          I’m in touch with her outside this forum, and she is a source of inspiration to me.

          I’m not sure how you so misread her.

      • Defcon 4 says

        Apr 13, 2014 at 3:00 am

        Pilfer is a understatement. Muslimes are kidnapping and forcibly converting women of other faiths to pisslam. It’s called Love Jihad in Pakistain, and I’m certain it’s not the only scuzzlum state where it’s practiced.

        • Islamisdeath says

          Apr 13, 2014 at 2:31 pm

          I have read, i think in an article here, that 1000 Pakistani Christian women are kidnapped and forcibly converted and married off to pigs like the one in the picture above this article, every year.

          White female sex slaves are what they are being promised for waging jihad in the west. Farrikhan gains followers by telling them they will get white slaves.

      • harbidoll says

        Apr 13, 2014 at 5:14 am

        nature doesNot increase the supply of babygirls to balance out the shortage . some boys will have to go without!! that causes wife-jihad!! duh!!

        • Islamisdeath says

          Apr 13, 2014 at 2:33 pm

          Thats why the need for constant war. So they can take the women as slaves.

      • enwhitenment says

        Apr 14, 2014 at 1:38 am

        My apologies PJG I mistook you for someone else.
        Crystal ball gets a little foggy sometimes.
        I am kind of new here but I am confident I have arrived at the right time.
        Sorry for putting your name beside a troll.
        Ps: If you buy a cheap lottery ticket on 24th of April you will likely find reason to smile.

  13. Jerry says

    Apr 12, 2014 at 8:52 pm

    Don’t forget the “right” to marry them when they are six
    and have sex with them when they are nine, like the
    perfect example given by the arch-padophile Plunderer for Profit – PBUH (P… BE UPON HIM)

  14. dh_swami says

    Apr 12, 2014 at 9:19 pm

    they allow him to have free sexual relationships with a woman other than his wife.

    Really? Free? Where is this paradise on Earth? I thought you had to go to Jannah to get that.

  15. Islamisdeath says

    Apr 12, 2014 at 9:42 pm

    That diatribe against the west and more subtly women was exceedingly hard to read. Absolutely disgusting bunch of pigs, butt ugly pigs I might add. Any bets as to how soon polygamy becomes legal in Western Europe?

    They are all so repulsively ugly!!

    • mortimer says

      Apr 13, 2014 at 7:34 am

      Germany has recognized plural marriage.

  16. gerard says

    Apr 12, 2014 at 10:29 pm

    1 man, 4 wives. Seems to me that would leave a lot of fellas without wives. 1 man has 4 wives and 3 men have no wife. Not a charitable situation. But charitable considerations are hen’s teeth in the societal sewer this Muslim cleric inhabits.

  17. Fr. Basil says

    Apr 13, 2014 at 12:06 am

    And Christians in mahometania should demand their rights to practice their faith undisturbed, to hold outdoor processions, to build new churches and repair old ones, and to evangelize.

    • Jay Boo says

      Apr 13, 2014 at 1:07 am

      Amen

  18. logdon says

    Apr 13, 2014 at 1:31 am

    He is making the arrogant assumption that Islamic rights, as the teachings ordain, trump those of the disbeliever.

    That is applicable wherever they settle.

    It’s as simple as that and this is precisely where the multicultural pandering has lead.

    However in Europe which is the playground of this grand experiment things are shaping up for serious resistance.

    Marin Le Pen has just scored great victories in local elections and has, amongst other things, reinstated pork in school and civic lunches.

    You could of course say, so what, but if anything Islam is deeply symbolic and the disappearance of pork from municipal cafe’s was yet another inroad into the dismantling of western culture and norms. It is now reversed.

    This is only the beginning as European populaces wake up to the creeping acceptance politicians of the establishment stripe cynically goad us into in order to gain votes from the Muslim bloc.

    The divide is growing as here in Britain UKIP gains in ascendency and Geert Wilders continues his fight in the Netherlands. No doubt similar results will emerge in Italy, Spain and Greece where Muslim immigration is felt the most.

    So the more the merrier. In a way this breaking of cover is exactly what we need.

    Just as CAIR’s Ibrahim Hooper showed the snarling true face of Islam in the recent Megan Kelly duel these people are semaphoring their total contempt for the societies they choose to live in and at last people are taking note.

    • Defcon 4 says

      Apr 13, 2014 at 3:02 am

      I see a lot more evidence that the entire civilized world is losing ground to islam0nazism than turning the tide.

      • logdon says

        Apr 13, 2014 at 8:22 am

        Au contraire. The volume of resistance is rising.

        My examples would have been unheard of only a few years ago. Now as Muslims assume that it’s game over, they’re upping the ante and kuffar pushback is proceeding apace.

        Are you suggesting that we merely roll over as if all of this is a fait accompli?

        It looks like Cameron has forced the MB out of Britain and here’s the reaction.

        https://twitter.com/themuslimissue/statuses/455171566364807168

        https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/10836-jordans-muslim-brotherhood-calls-on-the-uk-to-end-its-investigation-into-the-groups-activities

        • Defcon 4 says

          Apr 14, 2014 at 1:38 pm

          So what? Is the MB the only problem w/islam? If the MB disappeared tomorrow would the islamic world suddenly become cuddly and sweet?
          Or do you subscribe to the theory muslimes aren’t the problem, islam is?

  19. Salah says

    Apr 13, 2014 at 1:54 am

    The prophet of Islam had many wives, and many, many concubines, yet, from all his women (66 in all), Muhammad did not have any children except from his first wife Khadijah ???

    Muhammad’s Sexual Impotence
    http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2011/01/prophetess-of-islam.html

  20. Charli Main says

    Apr 13, 2014 at 4:00 am

    ” Western” countries are Islam´s Golden Goose.
    They are all desperate for a new life in Europe and elsewhere, because they have discovered that they actually get paid to breed like rats.
    More wives= more rats=more money.

  21. Marwan says

    Apr 13, 2014 at 5:10 am

    Don’t worry Cleric, “In Sha’ Allah’ in Britain we will do it.

  22. bill says

    Apr 13, 2014 at 5:20 am

    “European countries incriminate the man who has a second wife, yet, alas, they allow him to have free sexual relationships with a woman other than his wife.”
    This an example of how Muslims argue. Infidelity in a marriage is regarded widely as not a good thing and frequently results in divorce. What he means is that it is not legally a crime as in Sharia
    What he does not mention is that prostitution, though illegal in Islam is sanctioned by ‘temporary marriage’ also that a victim of rape is often convicted of se outside marriage. The hypocrisy of these religious authorities is egregious. It is also the rule in Islam that all polygamous wives are treated with absolute equality but in fact that is rarely the case.
    There is only one reason why Muslims want more wives, that is to breed more children. The same reason in fact that the RC church forbids contraception.
    As for “Almighty Allah knows best”. Basing the government of a country on Allah is a fallacy as Allah does not exist except in the fevered brains of Muslims.

    • Shushi Banana says

      Apr 13, 2014 at 7:59 am

      bill, the Catholics don’t have so many kids anymore, Spain, Italy, Ireland. The people who score so many kids now are Somalis, Bangladesh and the west should educate the women they need to teach contraception. Some of this immigrants are scoring 8 or 12 children and this is why the Western population is growing fast. Who is going to feed all this children? Who is going to house them when there is no enough land to build housing Estates? I don’t know.

    • Jay Boo says

      Apr 13, 2014 at 12:42 pm

      @bill said
      “There is only one reason why Muslims want more wives, that is to breed more children.”
      [The only purpose I see for the above simplistic statement is to use as a SEGWAY into your next]
      ” The same reason in fact that the RC church forbids contraception.”

      Atheists who hide behind false equivalence (liberal elitists) will be the first to bow to Islam.
      When in the presence of Muslims they will grovel and say wait, wait it is really Christianity that I hate” like salamanders shedding their wiggly tails to escape.

      • Defcon 4 says

        Apr 14, 2014 at 1:42 pm

        The atheists of Bangladesh have been criticising islam and being incarcerated and murdered for doing so.

    • Jay Boo says

      Apr 13, 2014 at 12:46 pm

      bill also said
      (in a preceding comment on this thread)
      “Christianity is the whole problem with Islam”

      • Aardvark says

        Apr 14, 2014 at 6:10 am

        What he actually said was:
        “Stop pretending that Christianity is uniquely from’god’ that is the whole problem with Islam.”

        I believe (and I suspect that you do too) that what he meant is that the whole problem with Islam is that the mohammedans believe Islam is uniquely from god.

        Although you could make a good case for the argument that if Christianity had not been there for Mo to copy, there would be no Islam!

        All of which is somewhat off topic. The thread is about Islamic polygamy in the civilised West, and the problem with that is partly that mohammedans treat women as a cross between sex-slaves and beasts of burden, and partly that the kuffar are expected to pay for their multiple wives and teeming offspring. Both of these things are execrable, and should be banned in civilised countries.

  23. bill says

    Apr 13, 2014 at 5:31 am

    The origin of men being permitted multiple wives is from the time of Mohammad’s wars.
    The justification was that the wives of the slain warriors (and captive wives of slain enemies) would have no means of support, so it was for the care of the widowed that the practice began. There is no justification for it to be practiced in the modern world. Muslims do not usually want to marry a widow but like to get a younger woman when their first wife is getting older.

    • Reality Check says

      Apr 13, 2014 at 2:47 pm

      Wooo, how noble! Trust a Muslim to find a good-looking excuse for the inexcusable or to admit it’s inexcusable when there’s no way to deny the undeniable. I wonder what excuses they have for those of their Mohammedan warriors who raped captive women in front of their still-alive husbands.

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 14, 2014 at 4:16 pm

      bill wrote:

      The origin of men being permitted multiple wives is from the time of Mohammad’s wars.
      The justification was that the wives of the slain warriors (and captive wives of slain enemies) would have no means of support, so it was for the care of the widowed that the practice began
      ………………………..

      I’m sorry, Bill—I don’t believe that. I believe this was a later *justification*, and nothing more.

      Early Islam was a conquering creed, and being able to seize multiple wives and sex slaves reflected that.

      This was all about grabbing women, dominating them, and humiliating their families.

      Further, I believe the only reason the “Prophet” restricted the number of wives his followers could have to four was only so that none of them could show him up by taking more women than he had.

      Ultimately. I don’t believe any of this male aggression and supremacism had anything to do with concern over the “care of widows”—many of whom Muhammed and his thug “companions” widowed to begin with…

  24. bill says

    Apr 13, 2014 at 5:34 am

    Whether one agrees with same sex marriage or not, there is not equivalence between same sex marriage and polygamous marriage. I have never heard of Islam advocating polyandrous marriage!

  25. duh_swami says

    Apr 13, 2014 at 6:21 am

    Polygamy in the US may be a gift from Allah, but along with that gift comes the of scary prospect of ‘Family Court’, especially if children are involved.
    What actually happens is that you are married to the court forever (or until your children are grown). It is the 5th wife who is really running the show.
    You not only have to appear in court numerous times, but you also have to go twice to ‘orientation’ where you are given lectures and watch video’s on how to be a good parent. Then you must report several times to ‘mediation’; meetings.
    If all four of your wives are divorcing you, and all have children, your goose is cooked in ‘family court’, it’s women and children first. You are going to take up residence in the courts hallway.
    And when it’s all over, your going to pay, and pay a lot.

    • Islamisdeath says

      Apr 13, 2014 at 2:40 pm

      Duh swami
      Do you actually believe they will use our court system? They will. Use clandestine sharia courts until we capitulate and sharia courts are forced upon us all with all of their barbarity

      • Defcon 4 says

        Apr 14, 2014 at 1:48 pm

        No kidding. Does Duh swami really believe women are the winners in divorce cases in islam0nazi states? Or even treated equally w/men?

  26. voegelinian says

    Apr 13, 2014 at 10:05 am

    Interesting historical fact I learned the other day, in reading the detailed Forward by WW2 historian Gerhard Weinberg to the Hitler Table Talk book. It seems that Hitler passed a law legalizing polygamy. While Weinberg implies that Hitler did this when faced with the problem of so many German men having been killed during the war, when one considers his profound admiration for Islam, and his collaboration with Muslims, one wonders if something else informed his decision.

  27. Tamara says

    Apr 13, 2014 at 11:28 am

    The Illegal MUSLIM President in Our White House is the Reason the Abomination is Allowed. That piece of Garbage Invented the Term (Political Correctness) Translation: “You will allow these Murderous, Pedophiles Ruin the Country Our Forefathers Gave there Lives to Protect” Islam & Muslims will be “THE” cause of the Next American Revolution. I will NEVER allow these Sadistic Freaks to Change My Way of Life or My Christian Traditions I hold Most Dear. They want to Die for Allah, I’ll be happy to arrange there meeting.,

  28. Walter Sieruk says

    Apr 13, 2014 at 12:03 pm

    On the subject of polygamy it’s worth noting the God gave Adam one wife. Furthermore in the New Testament Jesus taught “For this cause shall a men leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife…” Matthew 19:5. [K.J.V.] Jesus said “wife.” Not wives. Nevertheless, there are still some people who will act as apologists for polygamy by saying that King David and then King Solomon did practice it. Such people aren’t taking into account that the only reason that God did tolerate this tradition was not because it was right or that He approved of it. It was because this practice of having many wives was such an entrenched custom in the ancient Middle East at that time God allowed it for the above mentioned Kings of Israel. This that this this custom was right or that is was to keep on going in time.

  29. TJ says

    Apr 13, 2014 at 1:30 pm

    I need only one quick look at this revolting whale to understand why Muslim women are more than happy to pass the bucket to someone else…

    • Islamisdeath says

      Apr 13, 2014 at 2:45 pm

      Could not agree more! Can you even imagine having a pig like that come at you? Makes my skin crawl!

      • Defcon 4 says

        Apr 14, 2014 at 1:55 pm

        Can you imagine having a pig like that come at you and having no choice in the matter? Or being beaten by the pig like an old carpet and having no legal recourse to stop it? Or being thrown out in the street by the pig w/just the clothes on your back and having no legal recourse? Welcome to islam.

  30. TJ says

    Apr 13, 2014 at 1:31 pm

    Robert, you really should file a lawsuit to claim that million dollars promised to you.

  31. Jan says

    Apr 13, 2014 at 7:46 pm

    Jabba the Hutt. Ugh.

  32. wipe them out says

    Apr 14, 2014 at 1:27 pm

    Enough with demands.Time those little pedonazicultists start to beg.Beg for mercy…

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 14, 2014 at 4:49 pm

      “wipe them out” is almost certainly an agent provocateur. Real, principled Anti-Jihadists don’t sound like this, and Robert Spencer does not condone such comments.

  33. PJG says

    Apr 14, 2014 at 7:10 pm

    Of course, he’s in it for the food. He has his own little “My Kitchen Rules” set-up going and each of those charmers he married serves him up something special every night.
    A Muslim man told me, when I was oohing and ahing over kitchen objects at a fair with him, that his mother said to choose a woman for her interest in kitchen matters. Accordingly, he thought my fascination with samosa cutters or whatever they are showed good character!
    No, reader, I didn’t marry him…

  34. dumbledoresarmy says

    Apr 17, 2014 at 9:17 am

    A classic article on the train wreck – social, economic, psychological, political – that is polygyny, versus the benefits of monogamy.

    As discovered by some earnest and thorough Canadian sociological researchers, not so long ago.

    They looked at the broad social indicators of societies that permitted polygyny and societies that did not, both contemporary and historic, and also at the changes that had taken place in societies that had formerly permitted polygyny but had then banned it and enforced the ban (one can see the transition, for example, in China: just read Jung Chang’s Wild Swans; if China had continued to permit polygyny the result of their self-inflicted ‘girl drought’ would be ten times worse than it already is).

    Conclusion: broadly speaking, if you want long-term social stability, relative peace and wellbeing – especially of women and children – monogamy is the gold standard.

    http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/40214
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/9041460/Monogamy-safer-than-polygamy.html
    Wednesday, 25 January 2012
From The Philosophical Transactions Of The Royal Society
    Monogamy reduces major social problems of polygamist cultures
University of British Columbia | January 25, 2012

    Summary: “In cultures that permit men to take multiple wives, the intra-sexual competition that occurs causes greater levels of crime, violence, poverty and gender inequality than in societies that institutionalize and practice monogamous marriage.”…

    “Considered the most comprehensive study of polygamy and the institution of marriage, the study finds significantly higher levels of rape, kidnapping, murder, assault, robbery and fraud in polygynous cultures.
    “According to Henrich and his research team, which included Profs. Robert Boyd (UCLA) and Peter Richerson (UC Davis), these crimes are caused primarily by pools of unmarried men, which result when other men take multiple wives.
    “The scarcity of marriageable women in polygamous cultures increases competition among men for the remaining unmarried women,” says Henrich, adding that polygamy was outlawed in 1963 in Nepal, 1955 in India (partially), 1953 in China and 1880 in Japan.
    T’he greater competition increases the likelihood men in polygamous communities will resort to criminal behavior to gain resources and women, he says…’.
    And by way of contrast:

    “Monogamous marriage… results in significant improvements in child welfare, including lower rates of child neglect, abuse, accidental death, homicide and intra-household conflict, the study finds.
    “These benefits result from greater levels of parental investment, smaller households and increased direct “blood relatedness” in monogamous family households, says Henrich, who served as an expert witness for British Columbia’s Supreme Court case involving the polygamous community of Bountiful, B.C.’

    Here’s the abstract:

    http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/367/1589/657.abstract

    But there *is* a way you can read the whole thing.

    Go to this link:

    http://www.publicaffairs.ubc.ca/2012/01/23/monogamy-reduces-major-social-problems-of-polygamist-cultures/

    When it opens, scroll down to the bottom where it says:
    “View the study, ‘the puzzle of monogamous marriage, at…”.
    and click on the link there provided
    which will allow you to view the *whole* thing in its original scholarly form, footnotes and all.
    I would advise you, if you’re interested, to print it off/ make a pdf copy; perhaps several copies, and keep up your sleeve, as it may come in handy.

    I made a pdf of it and keep it safely tucked away on my hard disk, to share with others as required.

    Post scriptum.
    I don’t think the researchers go into one further problem with polygyny, if a society practises it longterm. It would have to lead to a reduction in genetic diversity, because over time, more and more of the male genetic lines would fail to be perpetuated (because in each generation 3 out of every 4 men are unable to find a mate). The only way to stave this off is to keep on thieving women from the neighbours, to introduce fresh genetic material.

    If the Ummah were quarantined, prevented from stealing non-Muslim women, and forced to live with the consequences of its self-inflicted “woman drought” (made worse not just by polygyny, but by combining polygyny with practices such as “honor” murders, FGM and child marriage, that cause the deaths of many nubile women), it would rapidly become even more inbred than in many places it already is.

  35. Lubna says

    Jun 21, 2014 at 10:23 am

    Please if you want to live in the West, you have to respect our laws, otherwise pack your bags and go home.

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