Matea and Hind Makki and any other Muslim woman will face insurmountable opposition if they try to get women allowed to pray in the same space as men in mosques. This is because several hadiths have Muhammad saying that if a woman is infront of a man as he is praying, his prayer is invalidated:
“Abu Dharr reported: The Messenger of ‘Allah (may peace be upon him) said: When any one of you stands for prayer and there is a thing before him equal to the back of the saddle that covers him and in case there is not before him (a thing) equal to the back of the saddle, his prayer would be cut off by (passing of an) ass, woman, and black dog. I said: O Abu Dharr, what feature is there in a black dog which distinguish it from the red dog and the yellow dog? He said: O, son of my brother, I asked the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) as you are asking me, and he said: The black dog is a devil.” (Sahih Muslim 1032)
“Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: A woman, an ass and a dog disrupt the prayer, but something like the back of a saddle guards against that.” (Sahih Muslim 1034)
“‘Urwa b. Zubair reported: ‘A’isha asked: What disrupts the prayer? We said: The woman and the ass. Upon this she remarked: Is the woman an ugly animal? I lay in front of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) like the bier of a corpse and he said prayer.” (Sahih Muslim 1037)
“Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: Qatadah said: I heard Jabir ibn Zayd who reported on the authority of Ibn Abbas; and Shu’bah reported the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) as saying: A menstruating woman and a dog cut off the prayer. (Sunan Abu Dawud 703)
“Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: Ikrimah reported on the authority of Ibn Abbas, saying: I think the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: When one of you prays without a sutrah, a dog, an ass, a pig, a Jew, a Magian, and a woman cut off his prayer, but it will suffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stone’s throw.” (Sunan Abu Dawud 704)
“Mosques Relegate Women’s Prayers to the Basement,” by Hajer Naili for WeNews, April 3 (thanks to Halal Pork Shop):
NEW YORK (WOMENSENEWS)–When Matea converted to Islam in December 2013 she looked forward to joining the life of her local mosques here. Today Matea, like many Muslim women, is disillusioned.
“When I first converted I wanted to be part of the mosque environment. But I went to mosques and what I found was sort of an unwelcome environment for women,” she told Women’s eNews during a discussion organized last week by Women in Islam, a New York-based organization working to empower Muslim women through knowledge and practice of Islam.
Matea didn’t want her full name published.
“The spaces are separated, there are different rooms and sometimes it was even in the basement,” Matea continued. “And as a convert, it feels very strange to you. I used to go to church and everybody is part of the same community. You can see the preacher. You can hear the sermon very well.”
Momentum is building to improve Muslim women’s prayer spaces inside mosques. Last year, Hind Makki, a resident of Chicago who describes herself as an interfaith educator and community activist, launched the Side Entrance project on Tumblr and Facebook, inviting people from around the world to share photos of the mosques they attend and show the differences between male and female prayer areas.
“We show the beautiful, the adequate and the pathetic,” says the Side Entrance’s introduction on Tumblr.
Makki hopes the Side Entrance website will help more Muslim men realize the terrible state of Muslim women’s prayer spaces and encourage them to join the women’s call for action and change.
In an email interview, Makki said the key to improving women’s treatment at mosques is to hold a broad discussion that includes religious leaders, mosque architects and lay Muslims.
“Every time I visit a mosque, I assume that I must enter through a side or back door, if I’m allowed in at all,” Makki said. “I assume that my prayer space is not the one that men use and that I must look for signs directing me to a basement or a mezzanine floor. This has been the case in nearly every mosque I’ve visited in the U.S., Canada and Western Europe.”
Less Segregation
Not all mosques segregate women to a basement or a narrow, poorly maintained prayer area.
African American mosques from the Imam Warith Deen Muhammad community and mosques of Bosnian-origin congregations are described as offering more women-friendly environments, said Makki.
“My default is to assume that immigrant-origin Middle Eastern and South Asian Sunni mosques are not going to be welcoming to women,” she added.
Due to their different understanding of Islamic texts, African American mosques following Imam W.D. Muhammad are the least likely to use dividers (10 percent) compared to other African American mosques (68 percent), according to the report No. 3 the American Mosque 2011 Survey, which focuses on women in mosques in the United States. However, about 70 percent of Arab mosques, mixed South Asians and others have curtains to separate women from men.
Another factor listed in the report is whether the imam is born in or outside the United States. Mosques whose imam is American-born are much less likely to use a divider (38 percent) compared to mosques with imams born outside the United States (78 percent).
Makki realized the importance of the issue during the month of Ramadan in 2012 when one of her friends was kicked out of a mosque for praying in the second men’s prayer hall. Since the women’s prayer space, which was located in the basement, smelled of mildew and the air conditioner wasn’t working, her friend, and a few other women, decided to pray in the last rows of the men’s second prayer hall.
“She wasn’t even praying in a mixed-gender line,” said Makki in the email interview. “That didn’t go over so well. The imam threatened to call the police on them if they didn’t leave the premises.”
Community Divided
Muslims are divided about the need for sex separation during prayers. Some argue women have no place at the mosque and should stay home, or at least be physically separated from the main prayer area. Others argue that women are welcome in the same space.
“There should be no enforced barrier,” said Cyrus McGoldrick, executive director at Majlis ash-Shura of Metropolitan New York, also known as the Islamic Leadership Council.
McGoldrick points to the prayer room of the Islamic Center of New York University in Manhattan, where women pray behind the men in the same space. A small divider is installed for the women who prefer to be hidden.
McGoldrick said the Prophet Muhammad made no requirement to have women physically separated from the men’s area during prayers. “I think when you authenticate what the practice of the prophet was and his community, you see that we are very far from it.”
That echoes the U.S. Mosque Survey 2011. “During the time of the Prophet Muhammad, women prayed in the same area as men, in rows behind the male assembly,” the report says.
Yet, many mosques in the United States continue to physically separate women from the main prayer area, according to the U.S. Mosque Survey 2011, which was distributed at the March 28 event.
“Between 1994 and 2000, the percentage of mosques that used curtains or dividers to distinguish women’s spaces increased from 52 percent to 66 percent,” says the document. In 2011, the figure didn’t change: 66 percent of mosques were still using a divider.
Aisha Al-Adawiya, one of the authors of the third report of the U.S. Mosque Survey 2011 and founder of Women in Islam, is highly concerned because she says women are losing motivation and that is bad for the religion. “There is a downwind trend within the Muslim community where women have simply stopped going to the mosque and as a result their children are not going to the mosque.”
Unwelcome Fridays
Women are particularly discouraged from going to mosques on Fridays, the day for the congregational Muslim prayer when space is limited and arguments against women’s participation are used to prevent crowding, authors of the report found. And when women feel unwelcome they may prefer to stay home to pray.
Farida Kabir, who lives in Brooklyn, only started going to mosques two years ago. Before that, her family members, who are from Bangladesh, told her that women don’t go to mosques.
“They always told me to stay at home, especially my dad,” Kabir told Women’s eNews on the side of last week’s discussion. “He was telling me that women don’t go to masjid (mosque). You stay and pray at home and that’s how it should be. That’s how I grew up.”
When she finally went to a mosque two years ago after she was married she felt unwelcome. “A man told me this is not the place to be, come back another time!”
Mosques are always open during prayer times but some stay open all day so Muslims can pray at any time of the day. The general understanding in Islam is to never turn a worshipper away.
The American Mosque Report 2011 found that mosques with women on their boards are less likely to use dividers between the sexes during prayer and have higher female attendance; 20 percent versus 13 percent at mosques that do not allow women on the board.
The problem of providing women with good prayer space is sometimes explained as a budgetary issue but Makki said it’s more a matter of attitude.
“If a community is ideologically opposed to providing women access to sacred space, it doesn’t matter how big their budget is–women will not have equitable facilities,” Makki said. “If a community believes it is the prophetic tradition to provide women access to sacred space, even if their budget is tight, they will find a way to equitably accommodate female congregants.”
umbra says
Self inflicted wound.
mortimer says
http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2014/03/15/comment/coucil-of-islamic-ideology-declares-womens-existence-anti-islamic/
Council of Islamic Ideology declares women’s existence anti-Islamic
“After declaring women to be un-Islamic, Shirani explained that there were actually two kinds of women – haraam and makrooh. “We can divide all women in the world into two distinct categories: those who are haraam and those who are makrooh. Now the difference between haraam and makrooh is that the former is categorically forbidden while the latter is really really disliked,” Shirani said.
He further went on to explain how the women around the world can ensure that they get promoted to being makrooh, from just being downright haraam. “Any woman that exercises her will is haraam, absolutely haraam, and is conspiring against Islam and the Ummah, whereas those women who are totally subservient can reach the status of being makrooh. Such is the generosity of our ideology and such is the endeavour of Muslim men like us who are the true torchbearers of gender equality,” the CII chairman added.”
Ha!
gravenimage says
Mortimer cited:
Such is the generosity of our ideology and such is the endeavour of Muslim men like us who are the true torchbearers of gender equality…
……………………………..
Grimly hilarious, Mortimer. This is what “gender equality” looks like under Islam—if a woman is properly slavishly subservient, she can aspire to be merely “really, really disliked”.
God, I hate Islam.
Jay Boo says
You have to give Islam credit for one thing though.
Nobody dutifully FLAUNTS their (Humility) better than Muslims.
Guy Macher says
Who allowed to her have an opinion?
Jay Boo says
she had better be careful.
If she speaks up she might ‘lose’ her headscarf and be called a slut.
C. Mccoy says
She may lose her head along with that head scarf!!! She better be double careful!!! Why would anyone convert to islam especially a woman????? I have to worry about her mental state.
Kathy Brown says
Hahahahaha! Here’s my take: If you’re sufficiently psychotic to like Islam, it stands to reason you’d be dumb enough to be surprised by its essential nature. OK?
Tradewinds says
Only mentally-challenged people, both male and female, convert to Islam.
Kalliope says
Not really.
People convert for several reasons: ignorance or rebelliousness against Christianity, marriage, taqīyah persuasion coupled with a cursory knowledge about ʾIslām, the exotica factor, the superficial morals, the rampant misogyny/pedophilia, and self-preservation.
Harry Flashman says
…in other words…MORONS, just like Tradewinds said.
Jay Boo says
It all begins with reciting the Islamic “Profession of Hate”
laura r says
as much as i respect mr. spencer, i dont think this is a valid artical. meaning that its a stretch. everyone knows that mosques separate men& women. rather than using this silly woman as an example, why not just do a report on women in NYC mosques? how the issue affects newer members. it’s as if you make her out to be a victim of islam. some years back i went into an orthodox jewish sephardic temple in NYC. the men & women were separate. i asked if i was dressed properly, as i was wearing jeans w/a long jacket. they said fine, no problem. maybe a hasid temple may have turned me away. so? that is tradition, there are reasons for that. there are rules in ancient religions. maybe later the NY mosques may have a more liberal policy for converts (to bring them in). as i read, i see there is one place in NYC that has coed prayer, w/a curtain for those who want to be hidden. the mosque situation is a beign one. its a NON issue mr spencer! you have bigger fish to fry.
Guest says
The point is that converts used to all-embracing Christian communities and gender equality are shocked by islam’s sexism. Articles like this help wake western liberals up about their beloved ‘multiculturalism’.
I particularly liked this item: “Aisha Al-Adawiya, … is highly concerned because she says women are losing motivation and that is bad for the religion.” Yay.
laura r says
how does one convert to a religion w/out knowing the basics? somehow i dont belive this artical. just an ‘un’needed excuse. plus its not sexist to seperate the sexes for prayer or school, orhodox jews do it all the time. sorry im not buying. spencer is better than this.
Jay Boo says
Let’s get all Islam’s inner workings out in the open.
Muslims love to have a cult-like insular culture to hide things like honor killings with a claim of Inshallah.
gravenimage says
laura r wrote:
how does one convert to a religion w/out knowing the basics? somehow i dont belive this artical (sic).
………………………….
This happens all the time. I had an otherwise intelligent friend in college was got involved with several different religions within the space of just a year or two.
She seldom learned much about the creed before jumping in, becoming briefly enthusiastic, then becoming terribly disillusioned and leaving when she discovered something she didn’t like.
Of course, with most faiths, this had no very serious consequences.
Still, I and her other friends were always worried that she was going to run off and join the Moonies or the next People’s Temple or something.
I’m afraid there are a lot of people like this, especially in the flaky liberal West.
Islam was not much on our radar back then. Now, I would be worried that she would recite the Shehada and run out and buy a prayer rug and a bunch of colorful head scarves, and only later would she realize just what it was that she had converted *to*.
Jay Boo says
@laura r
Sorry
But I have to respectfully disagree.
Earlier today Yahoo ran a story about the plight of Mormon women seeking priesthood.
While the MSM love to go after Mormons (since Romney), when is the last time they did a similar story about Islam and women’s role in the mosque (if ever)
The yahoo link is extremely long so here is a related shorter link on the topic of Mormon women and priesthood for reference if interested.
http://ordainwomen.org/
DosCuervos says
Yes, orthodox synagogues are gender-segregated usually – for the actual service. Often, the women’s section is subpar – in a mezzanine or something. There is a growing dislike of this among many women, and men for that matter, and this is becoming a topic of discussion and change. (Something we would not see in Islam.)
However, most synagogues also either take down the mechitza (divider) after the service or have a room where everyone interacts freely during non-prayer times, such as after breaking the Yom Kippur fast.
Segregation is to let people focus on the prayer/reading rather than ogling one another – not because women are ‘bad.’
Unfortunately, it’s often hard to hear/see/participate from the women’s section because all too often women have been there to socialize, not to worship. They also often have the younger children there.
And as for being ‘makrooh’ –
Rabbi Tanhum stated in the name of Rabbi Hanilai: “Any man who has no wife lives without joy, without blessing, and without goodness.”
dumbledoresarmy says
I like that quote from Rabbi Hanilai.
It reminded me of a little plaque my paternal grandparents had on the wall of their kitchen/ dining room, above the big kitchen table. It read: “All other gifts by fortune’s hand are given/ A wife is the peculiar gift of Heaven”.
Jay Boo says
You won’t see this story in the mainstream media unless it is titled as …
“Recent convert accused of Islamophobia”
cbmillr says
Jay Boo, You officially ‘win the internet’ for today. lol
Raf says
Would it make a different if they made a bette place inside the mosque for women’s, the prophet of Allah (pigs b upon him) clearly indicated that a women is equalled 2 a black dog (Satan) and both disrupt the prayer.Moha used 2 screw womens and then insult them.
john spielman says
Too bad for her, she has left the light and life of Christ for the darkness and death of Muhammed, the demon possessed mass murderer, rapist, liar, thief, misogynist and pedophile pseudo prophet of Islam .
eib says
+1
The perfect once again murders the good.
duh_swami says
‘Convert without a cause’…Also called, not looking before you leap. She signed up for swimming lessons before noticing there was no water in the pool. Did she even bother to read Quran before jumping off the cliff? Now she has buyers remorse, but not enough to make her want to run away. Foolish.
john spielman says
not only hat , but she can no longer handle bananas and cucumbers. remember the fatwa against handling “male phallic” vegies and fruits.
Islam: not only deadly to your soul and spirit but silly to the mind!
citycat says
A menstruating woman and a dog cut off the prayer.
They were on psychoactive vegetables, hence the lack of an inner life.
Prayer does not go through air.
An interfaith educator sounds like a dangerous ignoramus.
“we show the beautiful, the adequate and the pathetic,”
but not the murdered or the truth.
It’s another scam to promote Islam. Islam is infecting the human psyche.
“American Mosque”
Those words do not go together well.
As for the equality of women in Islam, it is more attention, energy towards Islam, instead of towards solving the problem of the animalistic tyrant, which would be better for everyone.
There is nothing more to anything they say than the spreading of Islam.
eib says
Like “Western Muslim,” “American mosque” is a contradiction in terms.
Fred says
I only wish it was
Salah says
“A menstruating woman and a dog cut off the prayer.”
And yet, Muhammad used to read the Qur’an on Aisha’s lap while she was in menses!!!
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.ca/2010/04/muhammad-and-menses-mahomet-et-les.html
Steffen Larsen says
Irshad Manji has this to say in “The trouble with islam today” on the Richmond madressa:
“Inside …you got stern Islam through and through. Men and women entered the mosque by different doors and planted themselves on the correct sides of an immovable wall that cut the building in half, quarantining the sexes during worship. Set in this wall was a door that connected the men’s and women’s sides. This came in handy after services, when men would demand more food from the communal kitchen by thrusting their bowls through the door, banging on the wall and waiting mere seconds for a woman’s arm to thrust back the replenished bowls. …men never had to see women and women never had to be seen …wherever classes congragated portable partitions separated the girls from the boys .
And when 11 year old Irshad Manji wanted access to the library, naturally on the men’s side of the mosque: “assuming I got the green light , all the men had to clear the library before I could ascend the stairs.”
Defcon 4 says
Wow and to think this happened in Richmond, VA. Can you imagine what a mosque is like in Soddy Barbaria? Somalia? Pakistain? Bangladesh?
And she’s STILL a muslime.
Guest says
And didn’t this twit still remain a muslim?
eib says
Quote:
“If a community is ideologically opposed to providing women access to sacred space, it doesn’t matter how big their budget is–women will not have equitable facilities,” Makki said.
end
Then, by their very nature, women are considered profane in Islam. Like dogs.
DH says
Interestingly, Orthodox Jews also segregate the sexes during prayer. However, they regard women as intrinsically holier than men! And the separation is so that the beauty or attractiveness of the opposite sex not distract one from prayer.
Orthodox women, however, do not read from the Torah or lead prayer. They have important religious obligations, but they are different from the men’s. (Primarily family-centered)
But Reform, Conservative, Reconstructionist and Jewish Renewal congregations are committed to sexual equality; have female Rabbis and Cantors; invite women to say blessings or read from the Torah; and usually seat women and men together.
By contrast, there is no Reform movement in Islam; any attempt to reform is considered blasphemous.
laura r says
i am sure they will have this liberalism soon. as you can read, there is a mosque where they do pray together w/a curtain between the girls who want to be hidden. there are muslims who are americanized & want to lift the rules. that will happen, as it happend for jews. still, islam is a threat to the US. the radicals are worthless & dangerous. the sleath are working to distroy the US from within. personally i dont give a damn about the mosques, what they do when they pray. i have no critisizm of men & women being seperate for prayer. its none of our busybody american business. lets concentrate on violence, islamization of the US, & our freedoms being taken away.
gravenimage says
laura r wrote:
i am sure they will have this liberalism soon. as you can read, there is a mosque where they do pray together w/a curtain between the girls who want to be hidden. there are muslims who are americanized & want to lift the rules. that will happen
……………………………..
laura r, I’m afraid there is no ‘liberal’ or ‘moderate’ “American Islam”. If Muslims are *marginally* less aggressive in the US it is because they are—so far—not even one percent of the population, *not* because their Islam is somehow different from Islam in general.
More:
the radicals are worthless & dangerous. the sleath are working to distroy the US from within. personally i dont give a damn about the mosque
……………………………..
laura r, where do you think Muslims are learning to be “radicals”? In most cases this is down at the local Mosque—the very same ones you believe to be “beign”.
Angemon says
“Woman converts to Islam, shocked to discover she’s now considered inferior to men”
Other shocking news that are leaving the scientific community all around the world stumped and perplexed: the sky is blue and water is wet.
nacazo says
On a feminist publication no less, Is it possible that a religion is misogynist????
Say it ain’t so skippy!!!
Some multiculturalist heads are about to explode….
joeb says
Like western women who marry muslims, and then find their children – surprise surprise – are taken by the husband to middle east retard-ville, never to return, I have no sympathy for this moron.
Defcon 4 says
I seem to remember a story about a Jewish woman who married a scuzzlum in Fwance. When the inevitable divorce rolled around and she got custody of the kids she mysteriously “jumped” out of her 10th story apartment window. A news story I think I read about on Atlas Shrugs some 6 years ago.
DVult says
It is a terrible thing to discard the truth in order to embrace falsehood.
Varg i Veum says
Wouldn’t it be appropriate to first learn what Islam actually is before converting? Not very smart woman imo…
Jay Boo says
An obvious misunderstanding of Islam
Muslim women seem to have forgotten that …
The main purpose of the mosque is not to PRAY
It is to DISPLAY
Jay Boo says
Sermon on the men’s side — “beat your wives if they misbehave”
Sermon on the women’s side — “submit and serve your husbands “
gravenimage says
Jay Boo, they don’t even bother to give them separate “sermons” (Kutbahs).
From what I understand, Muslimahs often cannot even hear the Imam from their section in the basement or under the stairs or down the hall by the bathrooms.
Of course, given the ugly *content* of most Kutbahs, that is probably a saving grace…
Jay Boo says
gravenimage
It sound like they bring theirs wives along and put them in storage with the their other property such as coats and shoes.
The Islamic worship in a mosque is just a vanity display to mask the sermon’s bloodlust hatefulness dripping from the rotting corpse of Islamic ideology.
gravenimage says
Sounds about right, Jay Boo. *Ugh*.
Anushirvan says
Stuck on stupid, like most of these neo-hippie “spiritual” seekers.
Stick to what you know !
Jay Boo says
off topic MUHAMMAD’s BIRTHDAY ???
When was Muhammad born in reference to the western calendar?
I have located three dates
Was it Today April 6
or April 20 (coincidentally also Hitler’s birthday)
or was it in June or some other date?
Wellington says
Most appropriate, Jay Boo, if April 20th. So, I’m rooting for that date.
Jay Boo says
True, it would seem most likely.
DH says
You mean it’s not April Fool’s Day?
nan says
April 7th and 20th would make sense to me as the two dates occur on the same day as Apr 7 on the Julian calendar is Apr 20 on the Gregorian and I believe the Muslim fraud was born before calendar reform.
Beth says
“New York: Woman converts to Islam, shocked to discover she’s now considered inferior to men”
Now that’s funny. I’m sorry – but…… lols
street vendor says
Show’s how much ‘research’ she put into it before converting. Kinda like moving into a swamp full of crocodiles without checking it out first.
Guest says
Yes, the one word that comes to mind is “DUH!”
American Male says
Well now you’ve done it, muzzies! I hope this woman gets a congressional hearing like Mz. fluke and all the feminazi’s and hags bring a world of hurt down on you! All the “Allah Snackbar” isn’t going to help you now.
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
A’isha asked: What disrupts the prayer? We said: The woman and the ass. Upon this she remarked: Is the woman an ugly animal?
That’s a good question, the answer to which depends wholly on perspective. Moslem men have a special view of things.
When I first converted I wanted to be part of the mosque environment. But I went to mosques and what I found was sort of an unwelcome environment for women,” she told Women’s eNews during…
Hey, before you consign your life over to it, read the damned book.
Women in Islam, a New York-based organization working to empower Muslim women through knowledge and practice of Islam.
So the deal is where women join a religion in order to gut it out into a husk of its former self in order to make it desirable.
No wonder Moslem men denigrate women. Apparently they’re not trustworthy.
EYESOPEN says
Kinda reminds me of Nancy Pelosi’s ignorant and incompetent remark about the so-called “Affordable Care Act”: “You have to pass it to find out what’s in it.” Well, you have to commit your life – and your soul – to islam to find out what’s in it…
Guest says
So, do I hope they manage to de-fang islam, making it tame and less dangerous, or do I hope they fail and keep being beaten down, until enough muslim women say ‘bugger this’ and leave?
Kate says
Woman thought stoning was part of a Muslim sauna event. Woman joins Islam to discover historical basis of “you can never leave – alive”. Woman joins Islam and discovers the American Constitution is, in fact, a Sacred Document. Woman joins Islam and discovers she is actually less valuable than the neighborhood goat. Muslim Brotherhood developing American political party…women are encouraged to vote as their Muslim husbands dictate, or else. Women joins Islam and her high school diploma is revoked.
Ayatrollah says
And now she can’t leave Islam because it is the one true religion.
Christian A. Beltram says
If Matea had read the books by Asra Nomani, particularly her book titled Standing Alone in Meccaa which was published in hardcover over ten years ago and republished in paperback in 2006 under the title Standing Alone, she would have not been surprised by the bad treatment that she is receiving when she enters mosques.
Hopefully, if enough Muslim women in the United States who feel as Matea does stop taking their children to mosques, this will slow down the spread of Islam in our nation for at least a little while.
Those musques that do have women on their board of directors probably learned about what feminists have achieved in our nation’s Jewish community with regard to second-class status being afforded to them within some quarters of that community, particularly within the Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox Jewish sects.
Additionally, the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and the Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church segregate men and women during their church services, just like Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox Jews. I wonder if female members of those churches in the United States will launch their own movement to give women equal treatment with regards to worship as well. If so, the experience of our nation’s Jewish community would be a good model for them to follow too.
voegelinian says
“Additionally, the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and the Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church segregate men and women during their church services, just like Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox Jews. I wonder if female members of those churches in the United States will launch their own movement to give women equal treatment with regards to worship as well. ”
I don’t give a flying fudge about what those churches do, since their members are not exploding and beheading nor co-dependently enabling co-religionists who are exploding and beheading around the world and threatening our societies with violent expansionist supremacism.
Jay Boo says
But don’t we want Muslims to LIKE US MORE?
Two women convert after 911
mortimer says
Islam assumes men are asses who can NEVER control themselves.
Guest says
Indeed, the important concept of controlling one’s urges and using one’s strength for good and not evil doesn’t seem to exist.
Jay Boo says
This is what happens when a pedophile thief argues with an imaginary ‘talking’ donkey only to lose every argument.
The three Jinn spirits enticed Muhammad to RECITE
but the angel Gabriel sent Muhammad to a dark cave to REPENT
John Magee says
CAVEAT EMPTOR !
Jay Boo says
Veil for Sale
This AS-IS vehicle is GUARANTEED to drive you straight to hell.
Built on a poorly designed (reversed engineered) platform that blames its defects on “infidels.”
Its is FUELED by vanity disguised as “honor” and well lubricated with slick lies.
No side-by-side comparisons are allowed with this WRECK. Dare you asked why?
Medina’s best salesman will try to entice, intimidate then obligate you to take a test drive.
He wants you to run over Christians without a trace of shame while calling out God’s name.
He will try to justify his reckless road-rage behind the pretense of “honor.”
Murder, kidnap, and rape of Christians is what he calls faith.
His “SALES MANUAL”will promise you sex with 72 virgins.
He will jealously burn down all other dealerships in his neighborhood if given the chance.
His “fastest growing dealership” is growing on a fragile CRIMINAL base. (quantity not quality)
Apostates with BUYER’S REMORSE will (literally “die”) for wanting to drive something better.
Buyers, you must escape this vehicle of vanity and hate.
Truth will soon send this junk to its scrap heap of fate.
BUYER BEWARE whenever…
Blasphemy (name drops) “God is great” then sleazes in with a
“Oh and by the way this is what “I” say in God’s name.”
IT IS TIME FOR A TRADE-IN,
Behind Muhammad’s long beard and Sharia’s disgrace,
Muslims who attack Christians veil their shameful face.
God knows that sin is not faith. More honor has the atheist,
than Muslims who murder in God’s name. Repent and be free. It is time for a change.
Satan expects obligation but is owed nothing.He speaks from his “seat.” His dogma is a diaper.
“WHEN THE DIAPER GETS FULL IT IS TIME FOR A CHANGE.”
Jay Boo says
OOPS
My salesman analogy was originally written in reference to Muslims persecuting Christians
All infidels are included
Guest says
LOL
gravenimage says
New York: Woman converts to Islam, shocked to discover she’s now considered inferior to men
………………………………
How could someone *convert to a religion* and not have learned this elementary fact about Islam?
And the thing about menstruation—this is why girls at Muslim prayer assembly at a middle school in Toronto were seated behind the boys, and why girls on their period were humiliated and singled out by being segregated even behind the main girls’ group.
As for things being especially difficult on Fridays, the Islamic “sabbath”—can you imagine any Christian church discouraging women from attending on Sundays? Of course not.
This idiot even mentions that you do not find this situation at Christian churches. Will she realize the significance of that? I doubt it…
And the logistics of Mosque attendance and prayer are, of course, just the tip of the iceberg.
Women are considered inferior in Islam *in every way*—regarded as “deficient in intelligence and religion”, they are second-class citizens in Islamic courts, in inheritance, in divorce, in child custody—and even in the afterlife.
As the “Prophet” Muhammed said, women are “the main inhabitants of hell”, because they are ungrateful to their wife-beating husbands.
What will this witless convert do when she realizes all of this? One can only hope that she will walk away from her ugly new creed—but given the fact that Islam has the death penalty for apostates, this may not be as easy as she would wish, even in the West…
Namename says
Given that women are the main facilitators of the Islamization of the west by pushing the liberal culture we now have, that refuses to recognize threats to our existence, maybe they have a point. Its women who tell men we can’t be men, its women (and feminized gays) who tell us we can’t have our western identity or protect our heritage or future – or else we are ‘bigots.’
Jay Boo says
Go drink a glass of wine with that whine
gravenimage says
Namename wrote:
Given that women are the main facilitators of the Islamization of the west by pushing the liberal culture we now have, that refuses to recognize threats to our existence
………………………….
There are at least as many men pushing this suicidal insanity as there are women—John Kerry, David Cameron, François Hollande, Rowan Williams…
The list goes on and on.
This is *not* a gender issue, but one of ignorance and ideology.
Champ ✿ says
Given that women are the main facilitators of the Islamization of the west by pushing the liberal culture we now have, that refuses to recognize threats to our existence, maybe they have a point. Its women who tell men we can’t be men, its women (and feminized gays) who tell us we can’t have our western identity or protect our heritage or future – or else we are ‘bigots.’
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh please. What nonsense, Namename! …and sorry to break it to you, but you ARE a “bigot”. Don’t want to be called a bigot, then quit making such bigoted and ridiculous remarks as exampled above.
Jay Boo says
As the “Prophet” Muhammed said, women are “the main inhabitants of hell”, because they are ungrateful to their wife-beating husbands.
———–
Muhammad is now saying “It sure is hot in here” and “Hey where are all the women that I said were down here”
Defcon 4 says
If women are the main inhabitants in hell then how do scuzzlums account for the 72 virgins to every man? A 72 to 1 ratio to me would imply women were the clearly dominant majority in allah’s heavenly whorehouse.
Jay Boo says
If the 72 virgins are in the land of paradise they are not in hell.
Regardless of where the virgins are, it is obvious that Muhammad and his homicidal followers are being poked by pitchforks and roasting extra crispy.
Pappadave says
Wouldn’t YOU prefer to have at least ONE houri serving you in heaven that had the least idea about what she was doing???
Uranos says
It shows how little this women knew of Islam before converting when they talk about “sacred space,” Islam has no concept of “sacred” apart from the Quran, most definitely not “sacred space.” To attribute sacredness to anything like a plot of land, or building, is idolatry in Islam. It is the reason that Islamic countries feel they are not only entitled to but it is an obligation to destroy historical sites that may attract admiration, they even destroy the graves of their own ancestors to prevent what they perceive as ‘idolatry.’
voegelinian says
You’re correct, but it’s more complicated, in that Islam in this regard (and in most every other regard) is incoherently self-contradictory. Thus, while Islam inculcates an obsessively fanatical aversion to idolatry, they practice a massively idolatrous reverence to Mecca and its Ka’aba.
gravenimage says
Remember *this* hideous story, where an Imam beats a little six-year-old girl black and blue for accidentally stepping on his prayer rug while he is prostrating himself to Allah?
http://italiancatholic.blogspot.com/2006/05/imam-beats-six-year-old-girl-for.html
Have I mentioned how much I hate Islam?
Jack Andrews says
Does anyone know what she converted from and why she converted? What was she searching for by becoming a moslem?
dumbledoresarmy says
S & M, B & D???
After all, slavery is perhaps *the* fundamental paradigm in Islam (starting with the conception of infernal allah as the ultimate capricious conscienceless Slave Boss, and working its way outward from there).
Sometimes it strikes me that the Dar al Islam resembles one giant S & M brothel…the illegal murderous underground kind into which victims for the use and abuse of the clientele are dragged by force or lured by deceit, and out of which mutilated corpses are regularly dumped.
Certain kinds of damaged souls are *attracted* to it of their own will: both those who get off on dominating others all the way to the point of total destruction, as well as those who unhealthily hanker to be abused and degraded.
Andy says
Now you can taste the real satanic verses!
duh_swami says
According to Tabari, Allah created women stupid for what Eve did in the Garden.
But we know this does not hold up across the board, because many women are obviously intelligent. however converting to Islam without knowing much of anything about it, is not especially intelligent. She sounds like a ‘seeker’ with stars in her eyes. Well theirs nothing like Islam to bring reality to starry eyed converts, especially females.
Defcon 4 says
I think living in an islamic state would really open her eyes — if she survived the ordeal.
Guest says
Haha, so ‘especially women’ get stupid with stars in their eyes, but you mis-spell “Well theirs nothing”. Good one…
Jay Boo says
What is the correct spelling for mis-spell
with or without hyphen?
Guest says
Haha, touché. There’s certainly a mistake there.
Alan S says
Hmm, the word “Dumb” comes to mind, would you not do some research, especially to day with “Google”, shows how brainless most of these converts are.
Kepha says
Too bad for Matea. Now, perhaps she will convert out of Islam?
Methinks we’ve got a typical half-ejjikated Western liberal who thinks she’s doing God and the Ummah a huge favor by joining; until she’s shocked to find that they’re not out to help her find herself, unless she finds herself exactly where they expect her to be (the back of the bus).
It’s Eve being the first deceived by the Old Deluder all over again. Might not be good geology, but it’s very profound psychology.
PRCS says
Kepha,
“Too bad for Matea. Now, perhaps she will convert out of Islam?”
I’ve wondered, now and then, how many “reverts” become dissolusioned enough to reverse course and leave “the faith”.
I imagine that white, male converts are generally not truly accepted into the flock. Worse even for white females I’d bet.
How much second class citizenship can they handle?
Kepha says
@PRCS: I’ve heard that the average lifespan of a Western convert to Islam is about 5 years–after which they drift away. Maybe someone like Saleem Smith would know more.
My guess is that this Matea was a liberal trying to be broad-minded and generously supportive of a client group, and is now learning the hard way that Islam and modern liberalism are about as mutually opposed as you can get.
dumbledoresarmy says
Don’t forget “Istanbul Chick”.
Haven’t seen her posting here for awhile, but I well remember her account of how *she* came to convert to Islam, in Turkey (and it wasn’t as a result of “marriage jihad”, it was more sheer cluelessness)…and how it was that she eventually came to her senses, figured out what she’d *really* gotten into… and turned round and hightailed it back outta there as fast as she could.
It just goes to show that otherwise quite intelligent, sensible and moral people *can* be deceived…but *also* shows that not everyone *stays* deceived, a surprising number of people *do* wake up.
Mirren10 says
I’m glad you said that, Wellington; I was beginning to wonder if I was the only person who found his posts utterly boring, pointless, tedious and generally incomprehensible.
Hope you’re well, Wellington.
Mirren10 says
Hi graven.
I know what you mean, I posted a comment in reply to Wellington’s comment ref ‘Stephen Poole’; it’s appeared far above Wellington’s original comment.
I Wonder where this comment to you, will end up !
Very odd.
gravenimage says
Mirren10 wrote:
Hi graven.
I know what you mean, I posted a comment in reply to Wellington’s comment ref ‘Stephen Poole’; it’s appeared far above Wellington’s original comment.
I Wonder where this comment to you, will end up !
…………………………….
Well, Mirren, it wound up above my comment, as well!
It’s been my experience that this new reply system works pretty well, except for two situations: firstly, if the comment is posted during a moment where the connection is lost, then the post just appears at the end of the thread.
The other situation is when a thread gets pretty long—like this one—then comments tend to become “unmoored” from the posts they are replying to. But even this is inconsistent.
That’s why I try to be especially careful that it is clear who I am replying to. Still, it can make for a confusing thread.
Who knows where *this* comment will end up…
Still, the new system is pretty good. Certainly, we’ve had much more troublesome issues than this one over the years.
Fr. Basil says
She converted to mahometanism without first visiting a mosque?
This makes no sense.