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UK: Straw says Muslim schools should hold to “Christian based” values, but Cameron under fire for saying UK a “Christian country”

Apr 22, 2014 5:42 pm By Robert Spencer

CameronBritain is finished; it is a nation of the walking dead, unless it affects a drastic change in its leadership and prevailing political culture, and soon. (Of course, the same could be said of the U.S.) Here Jack Straw, of all people, asserts that there is a British culture that Muslims must accept, and dares to criticize the imposition of Sharia into British public schools that were the focus of the now-notorious Muslim “Trojan Horse” plot. Straw even ventures to say, no doubt with trembling, timid voice, that some of those values were “Christian based.” But when David Cameron says that Britain is a “Christian country,” non-Muslims (not Muslims) complain; those non-Muslims will make sure that nothing effective is ever done to stop the assertion of Sharia in British schools and elsewhere.

“Muslim schools ‘must respect British values’ says Jack Straw as Birmingham MP admits there is a ‘Trojan Horse’ plot by extremists,” by Laura Clark and Chris Pleasance, Daily Mail, April 21:

Schools with large numbers of Muslim pupils must respect British values, former home secretary Jack Straw said yesterday.

He spoke as a Muslim MP said a radical ‘Trojan Horse’ plot to take over state schools was operating in Birmingham.

Khalid Mahmood, Labour MP for Birmingham Perry Barr, claimed a ‘small group of individuals’ was trying to change the ethos of schools by stealth.

It was also claimed that roving ‘morality squads’ have been instituted at the affected schools, and would censor talk of non-Muslim festivals and smash pupils’ Easter eggs.

Mr Straw said more and more schools were mostly or entirely comprised of Muslim pupils, adding: ‘We have to accept and the schools with a majority of Muslim parents have to accept – as they do if they are Hindu, Sikh, Jewish or Christian – that we also live within the United Kingdom.

‘Alongside values which are religiously based, there has to understanding that this is the UK and there is a set of values – some of which I would say are Christian based – which permeate our sense of citizenship.’…

Talha Ahmad, of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: ‘[Mr Straw] talks about accepting that Britain has a set of values. I don’t know of any decent Muslim who would disagree with that.’

Maybe not, but plenty of non-Muslims do:

“Cameron accused of fuelling division with Christian talk,” Reuters, April 21:

LONDON (Reuters) – A group of scientists, academics and prominent writers accused Prime Minister David Cameron on Monday of stoking sectarian divisions through his repeated description of Britain as a “Christian country”.

The public figures, including authors Philip Pullman and Terry Pratchett, said they respected the Conservative leader’s own religious beliefs, which he has addressed in a series of statements.

But they took issue with his characterisation of Britain saying, in a letter to the Daily Telegraph, the country was actually a “plural society” of largely “non-religious” people.

“To constantly claim otherwise fosters alienation and division in our society,” said the 55 members of the group that also included Nobel prize winning scientist John Sulston.

“It needlessly fuels enervating sectarian debates that are by and large absent from the lives of most British people, who do not want religions or religious identities to be actively prioritised by their elected government,” the letter added.

The 2011 census showed Christianity was the largest religion in England and Wales but the number of people who described themselves as Christian had fallen from almost 72 percent in 2001 to just over 59 percent, or 33.2 million people.

About 14 million people said they had no religion.

Cameron told an Easter reception this month he was “proud to be a Christian myself and to have my children at a church school”.

In an article in the Church Times last week, he described himself as “a member of the Church of England, and, I suspect, a rather classic one: not that regular in attendance, and a bit vague on some of the more difficult parts of the faith”.

Britain, he added, should be more confident about its status as a Christian country and more evangelical.

Cameron’s comments follow a period of tension between the Church of England and the Conservative party, the major partner in Britain’s coalition government that faces a parliamentary election next year.

Church leaders have joined forces to criticise welfare reforms and the rising use of free food banks across Britain.

Cameron also angered some Christians – and caused deep splits in the Conservative party – as he drove new legislation through parliament to allow same-sex marriages in Britain.

A spokeswoman for Cameron said the prime minister’s view that Britain should not be afraid to call itself a Christian country did not mean he felt it was wrong to have another faith, or no faith.

“He has said on many occasions that he is incredibly proud that Britain is home to many different faith communities, who do so much to make the UK a stronger country,” she said.

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Comments

  1. Slobbering Fits says

    Apr 22, 2014 at 6:28 pm

    The UK has made it illegal to address the problem or even discuss the possibility of there being a problem . At least the Constitution is not a suicide pact .

    • Brian Hoff says

      Apr 22, 2014 at 8:53 pm

      The constitution can be change when there is enought muslim spead out in america than muslim are patient.

    • Brian Hoff says

      Apr 22, 2014 at 9:01 pm

      Here is than video on Hitler raise to power. If the jew have treated Hitler better the world will have turn out better. Than funny thing 150,000 jew and half jew servive in the Germany military in WWII.

      • Brian Hoff says

        Apr 22, 2014 at 9:02 pm

        Here is the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSjkpaXlXIE&feature=related

        • Brian Hoff says

          Apr 22, 2014 at 9:07 pm

          Here is than video link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU_GQ91qDPY.

      • kikorikid says

        Apr 23, 2014 at 11:29 pm

        ESL is a real Bear,huh.

      • gravenimage says

        Apr 24, 2014 at 8:58 pm

        The sickening “Brian Hoff” wrote:

        The constitution can be change (sic) when there is enought (sic) muslim spead (sic) out in america (sic) than (sic) muslim are patient.
        …………………………………

        What “DefenderofIslam” is referring to here is the abolition of the American Constitution and the imposition of savage *Shari’ah law*—he sees barbaric Mohammedans taking over America.

        More:

        Here is than (sic) video on Hitler raise (sic) to power. If the jew (sic) have (sic) treated Hitler better the world will have turn out (sic) better.
        …………………………………

        Here is this vicious Mohammedan, claiming that Jews were deserving of genocide because they didn’t “treated Hitler better”. Notice that he has no actual criticism of the Holocaust whatsoever—and why would he? Pious Muslims are as homicidally antisemtic as Fascists.

        In light of this, what do you suppose he envisions as the fate of all of us Infidel in the US once his vicious coreligionists—as he hopes—take over? I think we can well guess from his gloating reference to the Holocaust…*ugh*.

  2. tpellow says

    Apr 22, 2014 at 6:56 pm

    I always associated Labour Party politician Mr Straw as an MP who played a leading role in turning his constituency of Blackburn, which he has represented for 36 years, into an Islamized town.

    • Sekigahara says

      Apr 23, 2014 at 7:03 am

      Wasn’t it Jack Straw who stated “that the English race do not deserve to survive”

      • sheik yer'mami says

        Apr 23, 2014 at 11:29 am

        Yes. Its was him.

        And he will make a backflip, again. Like he always does.

      • gravenimage says

        Apr 24, 2014 at 9:02 pm

        Wasn’t it Jack Straw who stated “that the English race do not deserve to survive”
        ………………………….

        And how can someone continue as a British “public servant” after this? We have a great number of idiots in office in the US, but it would be hard to imagine someone saying something like this about Americans and getting reelected for anything.

  3. Joeb says

    Apr 22, 2014 at 7:10 pm

    I understand Jack Straw is to stand down at the next election in ’15. So he won’t be seeking the votes of his largely Muslim constituents again. That’s the only reason he’s saying this now. This man, as the Labour Party Home Secretary, presided over the open door immigration policy for Muslims, in order to “rub the right’s nose in diversity” as Labour Party adviser Andrew Neather said.

    As for all those leftist public figures insisting that the UK is not a Christian country, it seemed to escape their attention that as they were announcing this, the country was almost entirely shut down for four days to celebrate Easter. I was in central London on Good Friday, and apart from some tourists, it was like a ghost town, with many premises shuttered.

  4. Wellington says

    Apr 22, 2014 at 7:22 pm

    The Straws and Camerons of Britain are little people—–very little in the larger scheme of things. They’re certainly more of the problem than of any solution.

    Oh man, is the UK messed up or what? And almost all of this rot has been self-inflicted. Ah, the slow death by suicide of a once great nation is a very painful thing to witness.

    Deeply sad. Deeply tragic. Totally useless.

    • mortimer says

      Apr 22, 2014 at 9:22 pm

      A prime minister is normally a virtual dictator for four years. Cameron is in the choke-hold of the Lib-Dems. Without a clear conservative majority, the Leftards are still ruling England.

  5. Lisa England says

    Apr 22, 2014 at 7:43 pm

    The repulsive, foreign city of London is openly destroying what’s left of England.

    The cancer is London. Its now a foreign majority city, and it holds all political/media power. It is a cancerous, parasitical nation-state.

    We live in poverty and suffering, intentionally cut-off from all political power in our own nation.

    And we’re forced, by totalitarian law, to watch on helplessly.

    We’re dead.

    • Coastliner says

      Apr 23, 2014 at 10:05 am

      Sadly, Lisa, I fear you are right. I am grateful to have enjoyed the best that Britain had to offer for most of my life. A good education, a job which provided a comfortable standard of living, life in an area with relatively low crime rates and the luxury of being surrounded by my own countrymen as opposed to individuals with totally alien values etc… I am so sad as I enter the last section of my life to see the country I grew up in degenerate rapidly before my eyes. As a child of the 60s/70s, yes we had our problems as a country, but never never like this. Although all governments of the last 60 years must take their share of the blame, without a doubt those who sealed the fate of Britain are the despicable traitors of the Labour Party. I will not see the final end of my country, thankfully, but God bless and protect all those who will have to deal with the horror that is waiting for them in the not too distant future. And may the blackest curse visit itself upon those who brought us to this state.

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 24, 2014 at 9:13 pm

      And it’s not just London, Lisa—large swaths of Birmingham and other cities are being Islamized, as well.

      My mother was English, and she and my aunt joined the army during WWII. Working at the Ministry of Information as a Teletype operator, she was one of the few people to see the now famous “Keep Calm and Carry On” posters that were to go up on the hordings if Britain had been invaded by the Nazis.

      I’d like to see a return of that spirit today—I do believe it can be done.

      Don’t despair, Lisa—your country needs you. This is all the more important given the appeasing fools in power there now.

      But this sort of thing *has* happened before—Chamberlain’s appeasement, and a man poised to become king of England who supported the Fascists.

      I know the specifics are different now—but then, the specifics always are. You have a proud heritage, and can still pull though.

  6. PJG says

    Apr 22, 2014 at 8:17 pm

    “…Britain is home to many different faith communities, who do so much to make the UK a stronger country…”

    How many hundreds of times have we been told that diversity is good for us and makes us “strong”. It’s not making us strong, it’s making us weak. It’s bankrupting us financially and socially and morally, the whole “multicultural” lie. Am I imagining things or do we see more “celebrations of diversity” all the time? Barely a weekend goes by without masses in the streets celebrating some nonsense. It’s a circus out there.

    • mortimer says

      Apr 22, 2014 at 9:25 pm

      Agree. Multiculti is the circus. The real show is up on the 50th floor in the office towers.

  7. mortimer says

    Apr 22, 2014 at 9:19 pm

    Yes, Prime Minister, England has an established church and is therefore legally committed to a religion…of course, with tolerance for registered faiths of all kinds, including Islam.

  8. CogitoErgoSum says

    Apr 23, 2014 at 12:01 am

    It seems very pretty,’ she said when she had finished it, ‘but it’s rather hard to understand!’ (You see she didn’t like to confess, even to herself, that she couldn’t make it out at all.) ‘Somehow it seems to fill my head with ideas — only I don’t exactly know what they are! However, somebody killed something: that’s clear, at any rate —’ from “Through the Looking Glass” by Lewis Carroll

    Yes, somebody had killed something
    But who was who and what was what?
    Had she been reading from a book by a Jinn
    Or was she under the sway of the Jabberwock?

  9. Jay Boo says

    Apr 23, 2014 at 1:15 am

    COEXIST
    We can’t allow the UK to declare itself a Christian country.
    If we do then Saudi Arabia will want to be a Muslim only country and might become a psycho Islamic theocracy. Soon Arab Spring Sharia butcher knife Muslims will go berserk and throw tantrums until leftists make up things to apologize for. Ayatollahs will then leave their asylums and rule Iran.
    We must be willing to bow until we no longer EXIST

  10. Robert Gay says

    Apr 23, 2014 at 1:31 am

    Mmm sounds like the English politicians currently in power have forgotten who are there masters. Mmm I think I can see another bombing from people who don’t know the true meaning of Islam ( quote from Cameron). Then after more hand wringing and denial of any problem, the ruling British elite will continue down the road of complete destruction of there culture for the replacement of an Islamic demonic dark age.

  11. Kim Bruce says

    Apr 23, 2014 at 5:28 am

    Who would have thought that the final battle, between good and evil, would actually be fought right in our own backyards? And that our generations would witness it?

    • Geordie says

      Apr 23, 2014 at 11:55 am

      What makes you think there will be a battle?
      Why between good and evil?
      What makes you think it will be last?

      Serious important questions. Give the answers some thought and lets talk them through.

  12. Geordie says

    Apr 23, 2014 at 6:48 am

    You will find that a majority of British people consider religion of all kinds to be irrelevant. The 2011 census and polls conducted at the time, reveal that 25% have no religion and 59% ticked christian. Of those who claim to be Christian less than 35% believe in a risen zombie deity.
    Christianity is on the way out in this country. We must hope that other religions will go the same way.

    The Telegraph posted: (in full)

    The drop in those ticking the Christian box, from 71.7 per cent in 2001 to 59.3 per cent in 2011, is highly significant. Even more dramatic is the rise in numbers professing “No religion”, from 14.8 per cent to 25.1 per cent.The two together represent a genuine shift of opinion, away from Christianity and towards unbelief. This is quite different from the increase in Muslims, which surely is due to demographics only: nobody could seriously suggest that any significant number of people in this country would actually convert to Islam. And, unlike Christianity, converting away from Islam carries certain penalties calculated to deter.

    The exhilaratingly high figure of 25 per cent for non-believers – far more than any group except Christians – would be even higher if the census question on religion had been more intelligently framed. If they had asked “Do you have a religion?” instead of “What is your religion?”, polling data from the British Social Attitudes Survey confirms commonsense: the numbers of nonbelievers would have been massively higher. Non-belief is not a religion, and it is insulting to frame a question that presumes that everyone has a religion, in the same way as they have an age and a sex.

    But in any case, do the 59 per cent who ticked the Christian box really believe in Christianity? Of course they are free to fasten any label they like to whatever it is they believe. But though they may call it Christianity, are bishops, priests and Christian lobbyists entitled to draw support from the 59 per cent? That depends on what the 59 per cent really do believe. To discover exactly that, the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science (UK) commissioned an Ipsos MORI poll in the very week after the census. We asked only those who ticked the Christian box a series of supplementary questions. The results should be devastating to anybody who wants to claim that this is still a Christian country, which should be run in accordance with Christian values.

    Only 32 per cent of the census “Christians” believe in the resurrection of Jesus. Only 35 per cent could pick out the correct answer to “What is the first book of the New Testament?” when given a 4-way choice of Matthew, Genesis, Acts, Psalms. When asked why they had ticked the Christian box, only 28 per cent of those who did so said it was because they believe the teachings of Christianity. The most popular answer to that question was, “I like to think of myself as a good person.” What? You ticked the Christian box because you like to think of yourself as a good person? Are you serious? Do you think atheists, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists don’t think of themselves as good people?

    Yet, when these “Census Christians” were asked where they turned when faced with a moral dilemma, only ten per cent said they turned to their religion. The majority turned to relatives or to their own inner moral sense, which of course is what good atheists do. So much for the cliché that you need God to be good. And those who think that our laws and governance should follow Christian values should be disconcerted by the following. Seventy four per cent of the Census Christians are secular in that they think religion should have no special influence on public policy.

    After the 2001 census, politicians and clerics used the 72 per cent Christian figure as a weapon to argue for Christian influence in public life. This time, despite the poor wording of the religion question, they will not be able to pull the same trick. Not only has the official figure dropped to 59 per cent. The percentage of those self-identifying Christians who either believe in the central tenets of Christianity, or who think Christianity should be given special status in our national policy, is now very low indeed. Christianity is on the way out in this country. We must hope that other religions will go the same way.

    • stevo k says

      Apr 23, 2014 at 10:10 am

      geordie, one of the main reasons your nation in heading down the sewer is because of people like you. christianity was a very effective buffer against islam for over 1400 years. and then people like you came along, mostly over the last century and the result is the shit you are suffering now, and will continue to suffer.
      why do i think christianity, hinduism, judaism etc. are a better defence against islam than athiesm?
      they are prepared to die for peace and for faith. but athiests in general have a fear of becoming “worm food”.
      you want islam defeated, look to the past and at those that have defeated it before, and it has been defeated before.
      but not an athiest in sight

      • Geordie says

        Apr 23, 2014 at 11:40 am

        stevo k:

        Not surprisingly I see it a different way. The current rise of Islam is due to people treating it as just another harmless religion that is on the decline and if left alone will die out like thousands of others have.

        Islam is not just a religion. It is an all encompassing ideology that finds it’s motivation/justification in delusional faith. Something akin to fascism or rabid Trotsky communism with the added thrill of 72 virgins waiting for martyrs in paradise.

        As I said previously. All religions are dangerous because they encourage blind faith and discourage critical thought. But Islam is by far the worst of the current crop. It is inherently barbaric, sexist, homophobic, rabidly anti-Semitic and as near totalitarian fascist as makes no difference.

        Obviously you think I am the problem and to be honest, I think all religions and religionists are part of the problem. Simply replacing one with another is not progress, just the lesser of evils. Not that the lesser of evils is an unacceptable temporary measure. I see nothing wrong with standing shoulder to shoulder with the enemy of my enemy.

        As a former army senior NCO and combat veteran, I contest your assertion that I am afraid to lay down my life for Queen and Country. I just refuse to do it for an imaginary friend! Those who now find themselves feeding worms because they challenged me on that point, knew better just before their lights went out, permanently. Things I am not proud of but see no reason to be ashamed either.

        While we are at it and I’m in the mood. I support Israel and have great admiration for the IDF. Despite it being openly a religious state it has my patronage because it is a parliamentary democratic republic with universal suffrage. Incidentally, the majority of the Israelis I am honoured to call friends are atheist too.

        Do you stand with me or against me?

        • Western Canadian says

          Apr 23, 2014 at 9:18 pm

          I don’t stand with any ignorant lout and bigot.

          “All religions are dangerous because they encourage blind faith and discourage critical thought”
          The ignorance in that comment is staggering. Frankly, you are no better than a muslim.

        • Geordie says

          Apr 24, 2014 at 3:23 am

          <>

          The hypocrisy is quite amusing. Your refusal to “stand with me” against a common threat makes you a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing opinion. A bigot!

          Furthermore your comment indicates a complete lack of understanding of what it takes to fervently believe in something that cannot be validated. i.e. faith. Anyone who values critical thought would have difficulty believing mythology from the bronze age, without some supporting evidence for the claims and assertions central to the belief system.

          Despite all the above, I am still willing to make the magnanimous gesture of wishing you well, in the hope of kindling a change in attitude.

        • Will Doohan says

          Apr 24, 2014 at 2:33 am

          You’re right. Atheists, Agnostics, Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc, etc. need to stand together in this fight against totalitarian Islam. Those who think that it can only be fought off with Christianity are almost as deluded as the Muslims. …. But at least they aren’t as violent. (usually)

        • Geordie says

          Apr 24, 2014 at 3:34 am

          Will Doohan <>

          Thank you Will. I’m pleased that there are others who are willing to put differences aside to combat a common threat. It can be difficult on here sometimes due to the openly religious preaching that goes on. Totally disregarding the opinions and feelings of some members. Muslim behaviour.

  13. Geordie says

    Apr 23, 2014 at 7:12 am

    From http://old.richarddawkins.net/articles/644941

    Not only has the number of UK adults calling themselves Christian dropped dramatically since the 2001 Census – our research suggests that it is now only 54% – even those who still think of themselves as Christian show very low levels of religious commitment:

    • Only about a third of what we shall call ‘Census-Christians’ cited religious beliefs as the reason they had ticked the Christian box in the 2011 Census

    • 37% of them have never or almost never prayed outside a church service

    • Asked where they seek most guidance in questions of right and wrong, only 10% of Census-Christians said it was from religious teachings or beliefs

    • Just a third (32%) believe Jesus was physically resurrected; half (49%) do not think of him as the Son of God

    • And when given 4 books of the Bible to select from and asked which was the first book of the New Testament, only 35% could identify Matthew as the correct answer.

    And there’s much, much more!

    Remember: these percentages do not refer to the population as a whole, but to those who self-identified as Christian in the 2011 Census (or who would have done so, had they answered the question). So: only 54% of the population say they are Christian, and of these, only 35% could correctly identify the first book of the New Testament.

    Even more significantly, our research revealed overwhelming opposition to religious influence in public life – but we cover that in Press Release 2, which is being posted in a separate thread.
    ===================================

    Against this back drop, it’s easy to see the problem facing islam. Crazy muslims have woken the peacefully slumbering majority of easy going UK citizens. Once that happens, nature will take it’s course. Hopefully without bloodshed. Public opinion is the engine room of democracy.

  14. Jay Boo says

    Apr 23, 2014 at 12:18 pm

    The leftist wish to open all doors and reinvent Christianity into a multicultural new age appeasement vehicle to Islam while buying into Reza Aslan’s attempt to remake Jesus in Muhammad’s name.

  15. Colin Whiteoak says

    Apr 23, 2014 at 3:45 pm

    There is a good article about this by Alexander Boot at http://www.libertygb.org.uk
    ‘Horace must have had Anglo-American lefties in mind.’

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