In the caption on a photo accompanying this article, the reliably dimwitted Daily Mail writes: “Nearly 200 Subway branches across the UK and Ireland have cut out ham and bacon, selling only halal meat, in response to demand from their multicultural customers.”
Their “multicultural customers”? And exactly what multiplicity of cultures demanded that Subway drop ham and bacon and sell only halal meat? Most likely that demand came from people of only one culture, and has rendered these 200 Subway restaurants less multicultural than before: now non-Muslims in Britain who would like to enjoy a Chicken and Bacon Ranch Melt or an Italian sub with pepperoni are out of luck: Muslims and Sharia-compliant dhimmis are the only ones who will be served.
The Islamization of Britain gallops on: “Subway removes ham and bacon from nearly 200 stores after ‘strong demand’ from Muslims who can only eat halal meat,” by Lizzie Parry, Daily Mail, April 30, 2014 (thanks to Gary):
Around 200 branches of Subway have cut ham and bacon from their menus, serving halal meat in response to calls from their Muslim customers.
The sandwich chain said ‘following a strong demand from our Muslim customers’, 185 stores in the UK and Ireland have introduced the meat, which is prepared under strict Islamic rules.
In Arabic the word halal means ‘permitted’ or ‘lawful’ and defines anything that is allowed or lawful according to the Qur’an.
It is often used to indicate food – particularly meat – has been prepared in accordance with Muslim principles and techniques.
Muslims are forbidden from eating any non-halal food and meat from pigs and Subway said customers can identify those stores selling halal food by the special ‘All meats are Halal’ sign, which must be displayed in participating branches.
In the halal-only branches ham and bacon has been substituted for turkey ham and rashers.
For many animal charities halal slaughter is condemned as being cruel to animals.
Traditionally in halal abattoirs the throats of the animals are cut while they are fully conscious – an act many campaigners say is inhumane and needlessly cruel.
In non-halal abattoirs, livestock are stunned before killing to prevent any unnecessary suffering.
Some halal butchers also practise pre-stunning, though it is not permitted by some Islamic scholars.
In Britain, killing an animal without prior stunning is illegal, but the law gives special exemption to Muslim and Jewish meat producers on the grounds of religion.
There are thought to be around 12 abattoirs dedicated to unstunned slaughter in the UK, while hundreds practise stunned halal slaughter.
A Subway spokeswoman told MailOnline all halal meat served in the participating branches is from animals who were stunned prior to slaughter.
She said: ‘The growing popularity of the Subway chain with the diverse multicultural population across the UK and Ireland means we have to balance the values of many religious communities with the overall aim of improving the health and welfare standards of animals.
‘We put a programme into place in 2007 to ensure that the population demographic is taken into account when new store openings are considered in order that we meet consumer demand in each location.
All ham and bacon is replaced by turkey ham and turkey rashers and all meat is prepared according to Islamic halal rules.
‘All our suppliers comply with EU animal welfare legislation as a minimum and we require suppliers of halal products to adopt the stunning of animals prior to their slaughter.
‘All halal meats are certified by the appropriate halal authorities.
‘All halal Subway stores have numerous signs stating that they serve halal food.
‘These are situated on the menu panels, nutritional information and in the front window of the store.’…
Angemon says
The solution: non-muslim british make a ruckus in the media and stop going to Subway. Not only no one likes to be on the spotlight for discrimination but also once their revenue falls down like a rock and they’re left to compete for customers against Ali’s Halal Kebab or Muhamad ibn Abdulah’s Zakat Compliant Maqluba Joint they’ll back down. Bad publicity is bad publicity, money talks, and bad publicity and lack of money scream and shout louder than “community cohesion”.
mortimer says
Boycott.
Jay Boo says
Agreed
I used to travel a lot (East coast of the US) and noticed that many Subway shops employed workers who appeared to be of Middle Eastern origin. Over the years especially after 911 that has changed but it is a curiosity that has never been explained.
umbra says
not just in the uk, but globally.
veggiedog says
Boycott indeed, in the USA as well for solidarity. We all know where this is going. Imagine Jews demanding only Kosher food be served, they would be ignored or made a spectacle of. This is truly despicable. Let a Muslim buy his own franchise and make it Halal. So tired of this PC game.
Yokel says
My guess is that it is pressure from Muslim franchisees that has caused this.
dodho@sdho.com says
Doh – Kosher Subways are already open in the US
gravenimage says
dodho@sdho.com wrote:
Doh – Kosher Subways are already open in the US
…………………………….
Ah…right. There were ten at one time; now there are just five remaining:
http://yeahthatskosher.com/2011/09/the-remaining-kosher-subway-restaurants-in-the-u-s/
That’s out of over 24,000 restaurants in the US.
Here’s the situation in the UK:
“Subway removes ham and bacon from nearly 200 stores and offers halal meat only after ‘strong demand’ from Muslims”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2616576/Subway-removes-ham-pork-nearly-200-stores-strong-demand-Muslims-eat-Halal-meat.html
That’s out of 1,423 shops in the UK, or almost one in eight. And Muslim norms proceed apace in Britain…
Alice says
I’m ready to boycott! This is nuts!
Jim in Summerfield says
This is likely a decision by the franchisee’s already. …if they aren’t selling anything with bacon why would they continue to offer it? … and if every customer asks for assurance that everything is halal then it probably saves time to post the sign. it would be bad business if the parent company didn’t allow its franchisee’s to tailor the menu somewhat to their local market demographics.
… are you going to boycott McDonald’s because there was no beef in the Quarter Pounder you ordered in Mumbai last week?
mich says
BEYOND RIDICULOUS!!!! They can eat somewhere else!! I am disappointed in the UK… really???
CogitoErgoSum says
Why take ham and bacon off the menu completely? If Muslims don’t like pork products, can’t they just NOT ORDER them? Why is taking away the rights of others to eat what they like justified in this case? If I ever see one of those halal stickers in the window of any restaurant, I am turning around and finding another place to eat. I do not want my money supporting such a way of thinking.
Jax Tolmen says
I used to work in the fast food industry, I was a maintenance manager at McDonald’s and a Store Manager for Subway.
McDonald’s restaurants that adopt that Halal moniker have different policies around the way that pork products are handled; however company policy dictates that they must continue to sell the full menu even if the store is Halal. The solution is that in Halal stores, the Bacon is microwaved and stored seperately to other meat. In non – Halal stores, the Bacon is grilled as usual. That being said, I have come across Muslim staff who refuse to handle Bacon, even though they are wearing gloves. They are a minority, but deeply frustrating none the less. Thankfully, the customer can’t really tell the difference – but a Halal store usually sees a jump in sales due to Muslims feeling they can eat there.
The issues with offering pork products seem to stem from a possibility of cross contamination, having run a non Halal subway I can say that it would be almost impossible to go avoid cross contamination between products. If a store is going to make the decision to go Halal, it makes sense both financially and logistically to simply eliminate the product entirely. This is extremely unfortunate; I personally despise the idea of pandering to religious minorities – but if it’s a financial incentive to go Halal, I can see why it’s started to happen.
Juliette says
Well,you will get very hungry on an afternoons shopping in the UK these days..Better pack sandwiches!
XYZ says
How offensive they only think about one religious group.. Jews were always a part of the Brit scene.. did subway ever think of changing the menu for Jews??
Angemon has got it right.. STOP VISITING SUBWAY for religious discrimination..
They don’t get the bigger picture.. the so called halal butchers are the only one to benefit from this.. typical muslim way of keeping money in the community.. ever hear a muslim donating for a just cause if its not muslim based????
wake up u people from the west the judo christian way of life is becoming a treat. the muslims are throwing you guys out of ur own country wake up before its too late.. and yes trust me it will happen.. India has been saved so long from the invasion cause they are scared of the Hindus.. wake up west.. Be like the Hindus in India who put the islam pigs in the right place
jihad3tracker says
Hello Angemon —
Yes, a ruckus and no more purchases — but let me expand that to suggest our JW readers here also drop in to their Subways (I have one just 2 minutes away).
Ask for the manager and politely inform her/him that you will never patronize Subway again because of the UK cowardice — and explain it slowly enough so that they understand. These persons are often overloaded with many things to do — and long hours just above or at minimum wage.
Best idea of all would be to send an email to Subway’s customer satisfaction/complaint path. But be aware that — since CAIR obsessively follows everything we write here on Spencer’s blog, it is likely having every one reachable flood that same Subway email address with propaganda and lies.
—— Business as usual for them…..
Alice says
I thought I’d do that, and tell them that the competing shop down the road will now get my business.
Jax Tolmen says
That won’t actually achieve anything – take it from me as a former restaurant manager. You are right on two fronts, the pay is not very good (below average salary) and the hours range from 50-100 per week, with very few days off.
Most managers will not understand what you are talking about, as every Subway is franchised and thus most have very little idea what is going on with the company as a whole. It also means that if they did take your statement on board, which they probably won’t unfortunately, it would stay in the store and never go up to the corporate level.
Contacting the corporate offices may cause a slight stir, but I doubt it will affect the franchisees who have chosen to go go Halal.
Angemon says
Forgot to add, if any Briton is thinking “oh, it’s a religious issue, we can’t say anything about it because it would make us bigoted racists” then you’re supporting animal cruelty and you’re against the right to choose:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAQJ-FZo1cA
It’s not like muslims will starve. The quran states that they’re allowed to eat non-halal meat.
2:173 – “He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], there is no sin upon him. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”
Remember, the issue is not that Subway sells halal meat, it’s that Subway ONLY sells halal meat, which means killing animals in a cruel, inhumane fashion.
Michael Copeland says
THERE IS NO SIN UPON HIM
Download that verse: it is part of Islamic law.
Print it out to make many small leaflets.
Carry them with you.
Give them or leave them in strategic places.
Spread the knowledge.
Let them see it is being spread.
Islamisdeath says
And it means Christians and others must eat meat sacrificed to demon allah. Most Christians dont know this but in Acts we are told never to eat flesh offered to idols, flase gods.
I will never darken the door of a Subway again as long as I live.
Tiera_black says
wow, you clearly have a warped, irrational view on life. I feel sorry for you.
Marty says
compared to what?
Angemon says
Tiera_black posted:
“wow, you clearly have a warped, irrational view on life. I feel sorry for you.”
Says the guy defending the cutting of throats of live, conscious animals and letting them bleed to death. What Islamisdeath says is the truth: the bible forbids christians from eating food sacrificed to other gods/idols. How is point that out having a “warped, irrational view on life”? If he’s a christian who won’t eat halal meat for religious reasons what gives you the right to criticise him when you’re trying to defend the introduction of halal meant at the expense of other meats because another religion mandates it?
Islamisdeath says “the food there is forbidden by my religion so i’m not going there anymore”. Why are you defending the people that say “my religion says i can eat this food but i want you to comply to the guidelines of my religion anyway, and that includes stomping on other people’s choices and religions”. That’s a textbook case of projection you welfare scrounging, sharia-enabler, religiously bigoted hypocrite.
Tiera_black says
Are you serious? yeah sure, convince yourself that that’s the issue. Because it’s clearly not, if the issue was that the animals are being killed in a cruel way, then why aren’t people against intensive farming? surely raising an animal in a cramped environment from birth and killing them in ways which result in them being partly alive (therefore having a slow death) is much more inhumane than raising an animal in normal conditions and quickly killing them.
Tommo says
People are against intensive farming and overcrowding that’s why vast changes have been made in the interests of animal welfare.
What people are against is the barbaric Islamic method of animal slaughter without stunning first ensuring a slow, painful death. After their throats are sliced and strung up by a leg, animals are seen writhing in agony until they become unconscious from the loss of blood. This suffering is inflicted so that Muslims can have their Halal certified meat which is also sold to unsuspecting non-Muslims because rarely is it labelled as Halal.
Angemon says
Tiera, you smoke-blowing idiot. Halal-compliant meat refers to the way in which the animals are killed, not how they’re raised so stop trying to pretend that halal-compliant butchers don’t get their animals from the same producers you’re complaining about.
Here’s a question for you: if you had to be executed would you prefer to have your throat slit without anesthesia while you’re fully awake or would you prefer being stunned prior to having the killing blow delivered to you?
BTW, are you a muslim or just an ignorant, uninformed browbeat leftist college graduate? If you really cared about animal rights then you’d turn vegan (the easy way out), raise your own livestock (not everyone can do it, you need land, willingness to kill animals and knowledge on how to gut and fix them) or tried to made sure that you only buy from companies that
Angemon says
companies that don’t practice intensive farming.
jihad3tracker says
Here is the customer contact path for Subway : http://www.subway.com/ContactUs/frmCustomerService.aspx
It is a long bunch of stuff to type… You might also include hotlinks to JW here, and two other super-educational sites about Islam: http://www.citizenwarrior.com / http://www.inquiryintoislam.com.
AND DON’T FORGET TO MENTION THAT STOOGES FOR CAIR — PRETENDING TO BE PLAIN OLE’ SWEET MUSLIMS — WILL BE THROWING “ISLAMOPHOBIA” CHARGES AROUND….
Martin Grimes says
I took your advice and just wrote this to customer service @ Subway.
‘I am disappointed that Subway is removing bacon and ham from the menu in Britain just to cater to Muslim demands. Subway could cater to Muslims with taking out pork products. Muslims do not have to ask for it as I do not have to ask for Halal meat (meat dedicated to their god).
As of today I will no longer spend my money at Subway. I will go and get my ‘ham and cheese’ or ‘bacon and salad’ and even a ‘Philly steak ‘ some where were they do not discriminate against non Muslims. I will inform family and friends of my decision’.
veggiedog says
I posted the automated reply i got yesterday. I do not eat meat and i find this offensive. I am in the US and will not give my money to Subway. Most people are and will continue to be oblivious to this, but worse what it means in the end. I only hope the world wakes up. Today Subway, tomorrow McDonald (who i believe will not cave), but the issue is that too many will and have caved to this pressure. The Muslim community has np pride, the have no respect for anything not Muslim. The world allows them this freedom. Shame on all who stand idly by.
Guy Macher says
Exactly! Stop by a Subway to tell why you are not coming back. Also, ask what they will do during the daylight hours of Ramadam-a-ding-dong.
veggiedog says
Too many will continue to patronize subway as they want only fast. Blame our fellow citizens as much as Muslims.
Bren says
you do know Subway is an American fast food outlet. Hopefully, not only will the white British population stop going there to gorge – but also the Pakistani/muslim-British will think about shoveling this shit down them and stop using Subway as well, and we can then work on McDonalds and KFC who also put animals through conditions that would make them wish for the ritual throat slitting of a Halal butcher. Fuck American-invasion, lets all come together and have healthy smelling shit.
Scott in PA says
“War = Peace”
“Multiculturalism = Islamic Supremicism”
From the land of George Orwell…
joeb says
My local branch of subway in london is halal, with that same sticker all over it like a cheap suit.
it also has a certificate on the wall from the halal association of ireland (you know, that formerly catholic country, now islamising at a rate that the muslims in the UK are rather jealous of) declaring it to be so.
duh_swami says
Well, I’m a vegan, except I cheat for ice cream. If meat eaters want to risk their health and longevity for a few lunches, that’s up to them.
Halal meat is even worse because it has the green tinge of taint on it.
If your meat looks a little green, don’t eat it, it’s probably halal.
veggiedog says
duh_swami, i am very close to vegan, i think it was an article Robert had here, but i may be mistaken where an Iman asked a kosher slaughter house if they would supply him meat due to the higher sanitary conditions. I know if I was eating meat i would want it from a place that follows the highest standards, and that is non halal.
Jay Boo says
The bread at Subway is absolutly horrible; it has a peculiar after-taste that I have never noticed elsewhere.
It must be made from Muhammad’s camel urine recipe.
tahraS says
wow what a racist, considering subway is an American franchise, don’t you think it would be made to the taste of Americans, also its funny how british people do not mind all the cultural foods that England is exposed to, and probably are oblivious to all the great food given by other cultures. Yet just because they introduce a certain type of meat, you use it as an excuse to target a whole religion.
Angemon says
Oh, drop the religious persecution act you red assed, grievance mongering baboon. No one here is complaining about the cultural foods England is exposed to. Just look at what says in the article: “Nearly 200 Subway branches across the UK and Ireland have cut out ham and bacon, selling only halal meat” and “ now non-Muslims in Britain who would like to enjoy a Chicken and Bacon Ranch Melt or an Italian sub with pepperoni are out of luck.“.
The issue is not with Subway introducing halal meat like you falsely tried to claim, you dishonest weasel, it’s with Subway introducing halal meat at the expenses of non-halal meat and therefore England is exposed to LESS cultural foods, so your argument is self-defeating.
Now that the “oh, people have issues with Subway introducing a certain type of meat” bit is debunked, let’s take care of the “you use it as an excuse to target a whole religion” non-sequitur. Who demanded halal meat?
“Around 200 branches of Subway have cut ham and bacon from their menus, serving halal meat in response to calls from their Muslim customers.
The sandwich chain said ‘following a strong demand from our Muslim customers’, 185 stores in the UK and Ireland have introduced the meat, which is prepared under strict Islamic rules.”
Muslims, that’s who. So, after you explain where Jay Boo’s comment he targets a whole religion, explain why people shouldn’t hold muslims accountable for the drop in cultural foods in 185 Subway stores in the UK. And once you’re done explaining that, explain why what Jay Boo said about how Subway’s terrible bread is racist, you ignorant buffoon.
Siera_AS says
If the fact that “Jay Boo” made an unnecessary mentioning of the prophet of the muslim religion doesn’t show religious persecution, then you are truly the baboon, and as a matter of fact, the comments do target the use of halal food specifically, for instance the comments about halal meat involving animals to be killed in an inhumane way. (when really, it is a lot more humane than intensive farming, yet no one is ranting about that are they?) Is that not indication that the people commenting have a specific issue with halal meat?
And the fact that all of you are defending such an irrational comment just shows you are supporting the irrational criticism of an aspect of the religion
Angemon says
Lol, Siera, you thin-skinned moron. Halal was introduced to cave in to the demands of mahomedans and muhammad told his followers to drink camel urine.
Sahih Bukhari 8:82:794
Narrated Anas:Some people from the tribe of ‘Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine).
Sahih Muslim 16:4130
Anas b. Malik reported that some people belonging (to the tribe) of ‘Uraina came to Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) at Medina, but they found its climate uncongenial. So Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to them: If you so like, you may go to the camels of Sadaqa and drink their milk and urine. They did so and were all right.
Of course the comments target halal meat, you paranoid parrot.
Here’s something from the quran:
9:29 – Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Now here’s something else from the quran:
2:173 – He has forbidden you only the Maytatah (dead animals), and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that which is slaughtered as a scrifice for others than Allah (or has been slaughtered for idols, etc., on which Allah’s Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering). But if one is forced by necessity without wilful disobedience nor transgressing due limits, then there is no sin on him. Truly, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
It was because of halal compliance (a religious demand, even though mohamedans can eat non-halal meat) that people in Subway can no longer enjoy, let’s say, a BLT. How is complaining about having less options and saying something that muhammad did “irrational criticism of a religion” you grievance mongering, privilege scrounging, sharia imposing, alfalfa eating, left loony ass?
And you consider halal killing to be”a lot more humane”? Tell me, how is this humane at all?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DP3YtCpS2A
If you consider humane to slit the throat of a conscious animal who is fully aware of what’s going on then you are a very sick, disturbed individual, and you should be on the psycho watch list because usually psychopaths escalate from killing animals to killing humans, and you proved to have no problems with inhumanely killing animals. Tell me, have you slit the throat of an animal yet? I feel sorry for you. You’ve been so hammered, bullied and browbeat with political correctness and self loathing that you’re trying to silence criticism by calling it “religious persecution”.
Tell me, you chainsaw juggling blind hamster, is saying that muhammad ordered the stoning of homosexuals a”irrational comment” and a “irrational criticism”?
“If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death.” (Abu Dawud 4448)
If you want to live under islamic law that desperatly move to Afghanistan and join the taliban you left-loony, jihadi pandering, psychologically broken browbeat sharia enabler.
Angemon says
Hey, Siera_ASS, the ones being religiously persecuted are christians. The Bible forbids christians from eating meat sacrificed to false gods/idols while the quran permits the eating of non-halal food. So we moved from having food that could be eaten both by christians and mahommedans to having food that christians are not allowed to eat since halal meat is offered to allah. Who’s being religiously persecuted you juhhaal (ignoramus)?
tahraS says
lol, by the way “Angemon” do you just sit around waiting to recite your load of crap to people just as ignorant as you? Maybe people will take you more seriously if you stop excessively name calling and adding stereotypical remarks into your comments, is this why you don’t actually go out into the real world and try make a difference?
Since you’re targeting every single person who is against your view, I’ll attempt to reply to the ones which stand out
Firstly, since your assuming things about people you don’t know at all (based on stereotypes), how about I actually state an accurate observation about you in which you are portraying: you’re defending people who make comments who just want to spew their islamaphobic comments, you clearly have no life if you wait behind your computer to answer to every single comment, promoting your views of self interest, yet you must feel like a pretty big person attacking people’s views behind your computer, you probably insult people to hide the truth about your own pathetic life, I mean, what is YOUR occupation? because before you claim I’m a terrorist, or a welfare scrounging whatever, let me tell you I am a student (so I am a person who is subject to the rise in tuition fees, the cutting off of EMA, also I am someone who is educated in the real issues in the world so I think instead of complaining about this, if people really care of the well being of animals, instead of focusing on halal meat, why don’t they firstly become an environmentalist and start by saving the habitat of animals who are on the verge of extinction, secondly, try ban intensive farming, or just become a vegan as you suggest), and clearly your taking this opportunity to spew all your stereotypical views, so, do you think all muslims claim welfare? let me address that by asking, do you criticise single mothers who continuously have more children to claim more benefits? do you criticise the children of “chavs” who don’t appreciate education and take it for granted and basically plan for a life of claiming welfare (which are not children of different races or religions because statistics show these are the children who obtain the highest grades, and this is because they are grateful to be fortunate to have an education here and in other western countries)? so do you criticise them or just wait for the opportunity to criticise individuals of another religion?
and if you do, well why don’t you also try criticising the wealthy 1% of the population who obtain almost half of the worlds wealth?
It’s clear that you are only exposed to all the exaggerated garbage from certain media sources and probably read newspapers such as the Sun and Daily Mail, who only report the exaggerated nonsense which causes people like you to focus their hatred on the foreigners, minorities, and people who claim welfare, whilst distracting you from the wealthy group of people who do not pay tax, or if they if do, pay less tax than their cleaners (but I guarantee you the wealthy 1% do not pay any tax), ah but according to ignorant people, all the welfare scroungers are getting the money
So yes, waste your life jumping to every issue which your brain washing media focuses your attention to, instead of focusing on reality (by the way even if the media does display a muslim doing something negative, it’s stupidly ignorant of you to label an entire religion as commonly doing the same thing, especially when the media commonly displays only bad news)
Hmm what else? Oh yes, you say Christians are the ones being persecuted? Well I have happened to have witnessed random Muslims getting questioned on the street about the subway being halal, and being sworn at and ridiculed for something they have no control over- as it seems people would rather abuse the nearest Muslim they can find instead of actually doing something about it themselves, I have witnessed other types of abuse towards Muslims, firstly they’re constantly criticised for what they wear, if not criticised then questioned, there have also been violent acts towards them as well, my friend told me a few weeks ago that she was punched in the stomach by an older woman who then called her a terrorist, I asked her why she did not rightfully speak in anger towards her and question her actions, and she replied that the woman seemed elderly and there was no point in screaming at random people, so don’t claim that Muslims are not persecuted (in fact nearly every religion or race has been persecuted at one point in history, yet it seems people still don’t learn).
Oh and lastly, when you accuse people of being liberal, do you mean that as an insult? Because in that case, let me recite a popular quotation:
“If by a “Liberal” they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a “Liberal”, then I’m proud to say I’m a “Liberal.”
(Oh I just hope you don’t reply with the same tired cycle of insults and stereotypes, but that seems unlikely)
Geordie says
As a well travelled and well educated gentleman. I have witnessed first hand the behaviour of muslims in majority islamic states and formed an opinion. It is an informed opinion and not very flattering. Additionally, I have witnessed the same behaviours in countries where muslim immigrants have congregated and attempted to establish their own religious ghettos.
Islam presents as barbaric and intolerant. Deeply sexist, homophobic and severely anti-Semitic in practice. It is antidemocratic and openly totalitarian in nature. Numerous well documented examples available.
Being of an inquisitive nature, I have asked muslims why they behave in such a strange manner. When clearly there are alternatives ways to live. The answer is always the same. “We are muslims, we follow the ways of the prophet as recorded in the koran, sunnah and hadiths.”
Muslims I have encountered seem to fall into two groups. Those who defend the adherent behaviour of their fellow muslims and those who claim islam to be peaceful and all loving. I have reason to doubt the sincerity of those who claim it is peaceful and loving. During the 1991 Gulf War a Saudi army officer explained the nature of taqiyya when employed against an enemy.
Being a critical thinker and someone who never takes anything on hearsay and especially not on faith. I started studying islam over many years, looking for justification of the unacceptable behaviours and practices of muslims. Never taking things for granted and always checking sources.
My assessment is simple. The barbaric, sexist, homophobic, anti-Semitic and paedophilic behaviour of muslims is justified by writings in the koran, sunnah and hadiths. In the same way as the murderers of Fusilier drummer L/Cpl Lee Rigby justified their actions.
I am not muslim I am an atheist humanitarian, some would say antitheist with some accuracy. As such I wish you well and want to thank you for commenting on this forum, your contributions are amusing and appreciated.
Angemon says
tahraS posted:
“lol, by the way “Angemon” do you just sit around waiting to recite your load of crap to people just as ignorant as you? Maybe people will take you more seriously if you stop excessively name calling and adding stereotypical remarks into your comments, is this why you don’t actually go out into the real world and try make a difference?”
Ah, yes, the typical “you’re just a dumb, no-life basement dweller” insult. Tell me, what’s the difference between “regular name calling” and “excessive name calling”? And what makes you think i don’t make a difference in the real world, you self-defeating idiot? I “recited” my “load of crap” to you, are you “as ignorant” as me?
“Since you’re targeting every single person who is against your view, I’ll attempt to reply to the ones which stand out”
No, i’m replying to the people who either have no idea what they’re talking about (best case) or are grievance mongering idiots (worst case).
“Firstly, since your [sic] assuming things about people you don’t know at all (based on stereotypes)”
Says the one who said ““Angemon” do you just sit around waiting to recite your load of crap to people just as ignorant as you? Maybe people will take you more seriously if you stop excessively name calling and adding stereotypical remarks into your comments, is this why you don’t actually go out into the real world and try make a difference?”. But projection seems to be the least of your flaws.
“how about I actually state an accurate observation about you in which you are portraying: you’re defending people who make comments who just want to spew their islamaphobic comments”
“Accurate observation”? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! What a load of crap! An accurate observation would be saying that you’re trying to silence people by calling them “islamophobes”.
“you clearly have no life if you wait behind your computer to answer to every single comment, promoting your views of self interest, yet you must feel like a pretty big person attacking people’s views behind your computer”
Who said something regarding “assuming things about people you don’t know at all (based on stereotypes)” and “excessive name calling”? Oh yeah, it was you, you hypocrite. Anyway, more of the “no-life” insults and you have yet to make an “accurate observation”. Even on the computer part. More often than not, I post from a smartphone or tablet, both of them bought with my hard-earned money. My phone plan, which includes limitless 3G traffic, is paid for me, with my hard-earned money. I pull my own weight and i choose to spend my time however i see fit. If you have a problem with that, tough titties.
“you probably insult people to hide the truth about your own pathetic life, I mean, what is YOUR occupation?”
This coming from the person who said, and i quote “you clearly have no life if you wait behind your computer to answer to every single comment, promoting your views of self interest, yet you must feel like a pretty big person attacking people’s views behind your computer” (there was also something about “excessive name calling”, IIRC). You might want to look yourself in the mirror before you start projecting.
Now, notice that i didn’t went as far as to make baseless personal assumptions about you, your personal life, your motivations, your psychology or your defense of islamic supremacism. I maybe unpleasant, and sometimes even borderline rude, but *I* have my limits. Something you seem to lack.
“because before you claim I’m a terrorist”
Liar. Big, fat, Pinocchio-nosed LIAR! Tell me where i claimed you are terrorist! What happened to the “accurate observation” you said you’d do? You can’t even get verifiable facts straight? Point out to where i claimed you are terrorist. Now. You can’t because i didn’t make such claim.
“I am someone who is educated in the real issues in the world”
So far, you haven’t came out as being educated at all. Psychological projection, lying about things easily verifiable… Tell me, what are the “real issues in the world”?
“so I think instead of complaining about this”
What are you thinking? Other than throwing more “you have no life” comments at me?
“if people really care of the well being of animals, instead of focusing on halal meat, why don’t they firstly become an environmentalist and start by saving the habitat of animals who are on the verge of extinction”
What does that have to do with the inhumane slaughtering of animals?!?!?!
“secondly, try ban intensive farming”
Ban intensive farming? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?!?!?! Who do you think would suffer the most if intensive farming were banned overnight and the price of food skyrocketed? Phase out intensive farming with, for example, sustainable farming, but outright banning it is sheer lunacy. Animals should be raised in a humane way, even though they’re raised to be killed and consumed. When i don’t get my produce from farmer’s markets i go to chain stores who don’t get their produce from producers with bad track records on animal rights. Every couple of months i get into touch with all the animal rights organizations i know and *ask them* for that info.
“and clearly your taking this opportunity to spew all your stereotypical views”
Such as what? What stereotypical views have i spewed?
“do you think all muslims claim welfare?”
Stop trying to ascribe me things i didn’t say. And you want to fight the “stereotypical” that all mohammedans claim welfare (not that i said that, mind you), you might want to go to the middle east and “educate” the people there:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpZ0kxA9BD0
“ let me address that by asking, do you criticise single mothers who continuously have more children to claim more benefits? do you criticise the children of “chavs” who don’t appreciate education and take it for granted and basically plan for a life of claiming welfare (which are not children of different races or religions because statistics show these are the children who obtain the highest grades, and this is because they are grateful to be fortunate to have an education here and in other western countries)? so do you criticise them or just wait for the opportunity to criticise individuals of another religion?
and if you do, well why don’t you also try criticising the wealthy 1% of the population who obtain almost half of the worlds wealth? ”
Nice try bub, but i’m not falling for your lame trick. I’ve dealt with you sidetracking just enough to rebut the false claims you made. Stick to Subway’s imposition of halal from now on.
“It’s clear that you are only exposed to all the exaggerated garbage from certain media sources and probably read newspapers such as the Sun and Daily Mail, who only report the exaggerated nonsense which causes people like you to focus their hatred on the foreigners, minorities, and people who claim welfare, whilst distracting you from the wealthy group of people who do not pay tax, or if they if do, pay less tax than their cleaners (but I guarantee you the wealthy 1% do not pay any tax), ah but according to ignorant people, all the welfare scroungers are getting the money
So yes, waste your life jumping to every issue which your brain washing media focuses your attention to, instead of focusing on reality (by the way even if the media does display a muslim doing something negative, it’s stupidly ignorant of you to label an entire religion as commonly doing the same thing, especially when the media commonly displays only bad news) ”
Blah, blah, blah. What you said is can be classified in one, or more, of the following categories:
a) baseless, wrong assumption,
b) outright lie
c) unrelated to the topic at hand
d) personal attacks
e) attempts to demonize me
Nothing in that garbled, twisted, IQ-draining mess of leftist memes is relevant to the topic at hand: Subway’s introduction of halal at the expenses of cultural diversity.
“Hmm what else? Oh yes, you say Christians are the ones being persecuted? Well I have happened to have witnessed random Muslims getting questioned on the street about the subway being halal, and being sworn at and ridiculed for something they have no control over”
That’s wrong, but that’s irrelevant to the topic at hand: Subway’s introduction of halal at the expenses of cultural diversity.
“as it seems people would rather abuse the nearest Muslim they can find instead of actually doing something about it themselves, I have witnessed other types of abuse towards Muslims, firstly they’re constantly criticised for what they wear, if not criticised then questioned, there have also been violent acts towards them as well, my friend told me a few weeks ago that she was punched in the stomach by an older woman who then called her a terrorist, I asked her why she did not rightfully speak in anger towards her and question her actions, and she replied that the woman seemed elderly and there was no point in screaming at random people, so don’t claim that Muslims are not persecuted (in fact nearly every religion or race has been persecuted at one point in history, yet it seems people still don’t learn).”
And that’s another garbled, twisted, IQ-draining mess completely irrelevant to the topic at hand: Subway’s introduction of halal at the expenses of cultural diversity.
“Oh and lastly, when you accuse people of being liberal, do you mean that as an insult? Because in that case, let me recite a popular quotation:
“If by a “Liberal” they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a “Liberal”, then I’m proud to say I’m a “Liberal.””
Ha HA HA!! What a joke! Firstly, tell me when i accused someone of being a liberal? I asked about graduating from a “liberal” college, and by than i mean a college where all opinions are welcome except those who they don’t agree with, in which case they do what you did here: personal attacks, attempted demonization, etc.
Tell me mr. proud Liberal, do you criticise single mothers who continuously have more children to claim more benefits? Do you criticise the children of “chavs” who don’t appreciate education and take it for granted and basically plan for a life of claiming welfare (which are not children of different races or religions because statistics show these are the children who obtain the highest grades, and this is because they are grateful to be fortunate to have an education here and in other western countries)? So, do you criticise them or just wait for the opportunity to vomit insults against those who call you out on your BS?
So, in the end, you didn’t add anything to the argument. You gave no explanation to why you disagree with my points, instead resorting to personal attacks and attempts to demonize me. How liberal of you! It seems you’re one of those people who the more you argue with and use facts to explain why they’re is wrong, the more they are convinced that whatever it is that they believes is right. *sigh*
Finally, something that’s been bugging me since i read it. Are you Tiera_black and Siera_AS? Because those were the only ones i referred to as “welfare scrounging”. And here’s what you said:
“you claim I’m a terrorist, or a welfare scrounging whatever”
So, are you Tiera_black and Siera_AS? Do you spend your days juggling between accounts, using one to defend another and patting yourself in the back after doing so? I hope at least you’re being *paid* to do so, otherwise it’s just a one-man circle-jerk, trying to pretend plenty of people share your opinion. And if that’s the case, i can’t make you look you any worse than you made your self.
Angemon says
Geordie posted:
“As a well travelled and well educated gentleman. I have witnessed first hand the behaviour of muslims in majority islamic states and formed an opinion.”
Mr. Geordie, it seems we have similar backgrounds. I too have been to muslim majority countries (mostly on work) only to swore them off forever. Two of the times (Bangladesh and Pakistan) i went with different colleagues who were 2nd and 3rd generation immigrant from those countries. Both of them knew the language and the customs, they had been there previously visiting their relatives and their opinion was that it was all peach and gravy, the people were poor but were honest and meant well. Well, things don’t go as well when they don’t have their family around. Suffice to say, on both cases our conclusion was “the bigger the beard, the bigger the liar”. According to my colleagues (who were muslims themselves) they were”hypocrites” and were going against the tenants of islam, but that’s not the idea i get from *reading* the islamic sources and *listening* to islamic preachers. For the locals, my colleagues were hanging around with non-muslims as if were were their equals, so them they were “one of us”, as per quran 5:51.
As for Tiera_black, or Siera_AS, or tahraS, or whatever he calls himself, a liberal he is not. A liberal would disagree with what i said but defend with his life my right to say it. I think proto-totalitarian is a more accurate description of his MO.
tahraS says
Okay, since you failed to infer this from my previous comment (which shows your complete lack in analytical skills), I was replying to your comment based on the other comments of which I saw were from you, to other people
and it’s weird how you quote what i say but do not take into account key words of what I say, for instance; “before you claim I’m a terrorist”
do you notice the BEFORE, which implies that you haven’t called me that yet (as I have seen that you have resorted to calling people words which are harsh in your other comments), I have also seen you calling people “welfare scroungers…” (which shows you making personal assumptions of peoples personal life, which is something you accused me off, therefore showing you as the hypocrite), hence why I said (and meant) BEFORE you start accusing me of being such absurd things, let me set you straight
(It seems like much of what I have to say in this comment is correct your misinterpretation of what I wrote, which really says something about your intelligence)
therefore if anything seems irrelevant, It is only because I am addressing things which you said to others.
So then, to the point, your main assumption is that these animals are killed inhumanely, well my point was, that there are many laws to the killing of animals in the UK which people are unaware of, which are barbaric, yet probably do not face the same criticism as faced in this article. For example, just the method of killing poultry, which involves them being hung by the legs and moved along a conveyor belt to which they are killed using electric water baths to which an electric current is passed through their head, now first of all, consider the pain experienced by them while they are hung by their legs waiting for their death, next the stunning of the animals can go wrong, for instance the shock may not be sufficient to ensure unconsciousness in the animal.
Now, besides that, what about the specific method involving a bolt to be shot into the animals brain, well scientific study shows that this causes more pain to the animal than it would if it was to slit in its throat (I’ll explain why, through two explanations). This is probably due to (in simple terms) the fact that the brain must process the pain in order for the animal to feel it, therefore if it is shot directly to the animals brain, there is a quicker reflex of feeling, whereas the slit to the throat results to a longer process of sensing the pain (as the skin must first sense it…basically a longer process of the brain detecting and responding to the pain). And if your somehow unwilling to accept that; also through studies involving EEG recordings, the recordings obtained zero readings, which indicate no pain.
“Who do you think would suffer the most if intensive farming were banned overnight and the price of food skyrocketed?”
And as you are generally considering the more economically friendly solution: as halal meat involves the draining of the blood, less blood means pound per pound you obtain more meat and therefore yield more of the finished product.
Also this decision in making subway meat halal in specific stores, is a result of they themselves wanting to save money, for instance their specific decision of which stores to turn halal, were based on their marketing statistics, as their decision was basically based on “what sells where”
Lastly, entertaining suggestion, but I don’t believe anyone has the time to manage multiple accounts to which they comment from every single one, also the “tiera” depending on how it’s pronounced, sounds like a boy’s name. (Whereas I’m a girl, which you falsely assumed otherwise, but that’s irrelevant anyway)
In regards to the comment left by “Geordie” it’s quite amusing to see your drastic change in approach compared to your other comments which included stereotypical remarks (“Perhaps less time spent learning how to clean an AK47”)
Nonetheless, in your more recent comment, I understand your findings, and it’s great that you try verify your research (I’m not being sarcastic by the way), however, I would just simply like to state this, I hope your assumption of what you found will not cloud your judgement about the religion, but instead, the way people practice it. By this I mean, the religion and it’s teachings very much display high morals and wisdom, misinterpretation of these teachings are the issues (as it is seen, misinterpretation is an issue in many aspects), for instance people will often misinterpret them and apply them in a way which is best suited to them. For instance I too have noticed severe sexism, (however I have noticed them mostly in Arab cultures). This is seen to be a misinterpretation, which isn’t a thing which happens only to muslim people, for example sexism is displayed in many things, for instance even in modern society (the fact that men are statistically shown to commonly earn more than women in the same profession), also even evolutionary explanations to things (such as gender development, gender roles, group displays of aggression etc.) are gender bias. And for example even how western societies many years ago displayed sexism, such as England, when the English were most typically protestant or catholic, yet still displayed a woman’s role as being a mother, yet this cannot be blamed on the religion, but the interpretation, and the society back then.
And as you provided accounts of your travels, I would like to include that I found areas of Pakistan which actually did display equality, for example (as you should know, there are many Christians who live in Pakistan), while I was there, I witnessed new churches being built, and young boys and girls being educated (newly built schools), also most interestingly, I spoke with a couple who moved to Kashmir from America, they were an inspiration, as during their time in Kashmir, they had built an orphanage. Their decision to live in that particular area was because it was seen that people had a more reasonable interpretation to the religion, and as they said, everyone seemed to live more in harmony (as cheesy as it may sound).
However in the village areas there were displays of the more unfavourable behaviour as you found. Therefore, I hope you will not judge the religion based on the few corrupt people which attempt to exercise it incorrectly.
Geordie says
tahraS wrote: “This is probably due to (in simple terms) the fact that the brain must process the pain in order for the animal to feel it, …”
You forget that the brain for the most part has no pain sensors and the bolt is aimed at the stem. Having the same effect as shooting a suicide bomber with a detonator switch, through the nose and hitting the brain stem. Do you follow?
Slitting the animals throat involves pain from the nerve endings in the skin and structures of the throat. Not forgetting the already high stress levels leading up to the bitter end. People who have their throats cut do not die painlessly, you should already know that. Take a look at the executions by muslims posted to various sites on the internet for confirmation.
You seem to be fixated on the slaughter process and miss the point why people are upset that a religious minority has taken the choice of meat away from the majority. I suggest you sit back, have a tasty bacon sandwich and consider the point very carefully before proceeding. Don’t ask for one at Subway. It’s too late!
Now to reply to your comments directed at me.
My “research into islamic barbarism spans several decades, both in and out of uniform. I have spent more time in islamic countries than is healthy for a civilised person.
I am by nature and training critical of everything other than first hand experience and observation. Based on that, I concur sexism is indeed a feature of arabic islam. Which is not surprising due to the fact that mohammed was an arab and behaved in a very sexist manner towards his wives (prepubescent or otherwise); towards his slave women and encouraged his followers to do the same with theirs. You may disagree but the arabs consider any other incarnation of THEIR religion as a misinterpretation. However, where sharia is adhered to by “fundamentalists” who take the literal meaning of the koran, sunnah and hadiths seriously. Sexism, homophobia, barbarism and rabid anti-Semitism soon follow, usually in the wake of “fundamentalist” imams from arabia.
As for the AK47 comment. Someone who allegedly has visited the tribal villages of Pakistan, should be well aware that weapons training comes second only to koran studies in the majority of madrassa. Would you like some reference data to corroborate that allegation. I only need to site one example to prove the point. http://ipcs.org/pdf_file/issue/2032153432IB11-SubaChandran-MadrassasInPak.pdf
Quote from page 3 section entitled, Prevent Military training and remove the weapons:
“The military government had initiated steps to prevent the madrassas from providing military training to its students, but it did not succeed owing to lack of will. The de-weaponization programme was mainly targeted against sectarian groups, especially the banned ones.
Unfortunately, it did not cover all the madrassas; hence, military training in madrassas continues even today and they possess sophisticated weapons including machine guns.
Lastly. Keep posting, your contribution is valued.
Angemon says
The pitiful tahraS posted:
“Okay, since you failed to infer this from my previous comment (which shows your complete lack in analytical skills)”
LOL! Says the guy who called someone a “racist” for mentioning camel urine, the drinking of which mohammad proscribed.
“I was replying to your comment based on the other comments of which I saw were from you, to other people”
You never replied to what i said about muhammad and camel urine
Sahih Bukhari 8:82:794
Narrated Anas:Some people from the tribe of ‘Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine).
Sahih Muslim 16:4130
Anas b. Malik reported that some people belonging (to the tribe) of ‘Uraina came to Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) at Medina, but they found its climate uncongenial. So Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to them: If you so like, you may go to the camels of Sadaqa and drink their milk and urine. They did so and were all right.
So stop pretending you’re “replying based on what i said”, especially when your comment was a long diatribe whining mostly about unrelated subjects, like the 1%,
“I have also seen you calling people “welfare scroungers…” (which shows you making personal assumptions of peoples personal life, which is something you accused me off, therefore showing you as the hypocrite)”
I don’t think you know the meaning of “personal life”… Anyway, even if you were right (and i used “welfare-scrounging” not as an assumption on anyone’s life but as a random insult, the same i used “chainsaw juggling blind hamster”, you chainsaw juggling blind hamster), that would make me also a hypocrite, not the hypocrite. You still accused me of “excessive name calling” and ““assuming things about people you don’t know at all (based on stereotypes)”. So yeah, you’re still a hypocrite, on more than one account.
“(It seems like much of what I have to say in this comment is correct your misinterpretation of what I wrote, which really says something about your intelligence)”
OH NO! The hypocrite is not only patting himself on the back but also name calling, even though he accused me of it. What a hypocrite! Also, you might want to double-check your grammar.
“therefore if anything seems irrelevant, It is only because I am addressing things which you said to others.”
Liar. I never brought up the wealthy 1%, chavs or baby-pumping single moms, just to name a few. Start taking responsibility for your words and actions, kid.
“So then, to the point, your main assumption is that these animals are killed inhumanely, well my point was, that there are many laws to the killing of animals in the UK which people are unaware of, which are barbaric, yet probably do not face the same criticism as faced in this article. For example, just the method of killing poultry, which involves them being hung by the legs and moved along a conveyor belt to which they are killed using electric water baths to which an electric current is passed through their head, now first of all, consider the pain experienced by them while they are hung by their legs waiting for their death, next the stunning of the animals can go wrong, for instance the shock may not be sufficient to ensure unconsciousness in the animal.”
Ah, so that’s why it took you so long to respond. You had no idea what you were talking about and you needed to research. And you still don’t, so go research a bit more if you think that is as painful as slashing open the throat of a conscious animal.
“Now, besides that, what about the specific method involving a bolt to be shot into the animals brain, well scientific study shows that this causes more pain to the animal than it would if it was to slit in its throat (I’ll explain why, through two explanations).”
What studies? Link to them, because there’s no way i’m taking your word for it.
“This is probably due to (in simple terms) the fact that the brain must process the pain in order for the animal to feel it, therefore if it is shot directly to the animals brain, there is a quicker reflex of feeling, whereas the slit to the throat results to a longer process of sensing the pain (as the skin must first sense it…basically a longer process of the brain detecting and responding to the pain). And if your somehow unwilling to accept that; also through studies involving EEG recordings, the recordings obtained zero readings, which indicate no pain.”
You moron. In simple terms, if the animal is unconscious then he can’t feel pain. If slashing open a a live animal’s throat was painless, as you claim, then animal right organization would be pressing for it and not against it.
“And as you are generally considering the more economically friendly solution: as halal meat involves the draining of the blood, less blood means pound per pound you obtain more meat and therefore yield more of the finished product.”
LOL! This comes from the same guy who accused me of “lack in analytical skills“! You dumb baboon, draining the blood won’t mean more produce. If anything it means less produce, since it’s sold by the weight and there’s no blood to add to the weight. Let me try to put it in a way even you can understand. If a cow can be chopped into, let’s say, 200 1lb packages then taking away all the blood would mean that the weight of the blood in each package would need to be replaced. And the replacement would be more meat, which wouldn’t appear magically out of thin air. I know that sometimes less is more, but not in this case. No blood = less weight = less meat packages = less produce. Not more, less.
“Also this decision in making subway meat halal in specific stores, is a result of they themselves wanting to save money”
Once again, wrong. Can’t you even read properly? Subway stores who became halal did so “following a strong demand from our[their] Muslim customers”
“Lastly, entertaining suggestion, but I don’t believe anyone has the time to manage multiple accounts to which they comment from every single one, also the “tiera” depending on how it’s pronounced, sounds like a boy’s name. (Whereas I’m a girl, which you falsely assumed otherwise, but that’s irrelevant anyway)”
Since you failed to provide an entertaining suggestion, or even a suggestion at all, let me give you a hand. You talked about the wealthy 1%, right? Then i take it you’re for the redistribution of riches among those who have less. Here’s what i suggest you do: you go out, pawn your cellphone and send the money to the starving children in Africa. Then you quit studding, give your tuition money to help the poor and starving, and apply as a non-paid volunteer in a NGO. I think it’s time to put your money where your mouth is, you wouldn’t want to look like a hypocrite, would you?
tahraS says
In regards to Angemon’s comment:
“…not as an assumption on anyone’s life but as a random insult”
that was what I was referring to, the fact that your name calling is random and meaningless, the terms on which I am referring to you as, are based on what you have typed and displayed your behaviour as, whereas you- as you said, are randomly spewing insults based on nothing, the fact that you can’t see anything stupid and utterly meaningless about that is laughable.
now about the 1%, that was intended to address your insult to someone as a “welfare scrounger” of course, firstly i was addressing the fact that you assume Muslims are welfare scroungers, then I referenced other groups of people who are also would be classed as “welfare scroungers” (but pointing out how you choose not to criticise them, but instead Muslims) and THEN I was suggesting that even if you did criticise all “welfare scroungers” it would be pointless to insinuate that they are taking all the money, because the true people who are withholding the vast majority of the worlds wealth is the 1%. There you go, sorry you couldn’t make that connection
now for someone who complained about irrelevancy, you sure are dwelling on the things which are not related to the topic, yet you address little (compared to everything else) about the topic in hand, you certainly contradict yourself.
Another irrelevant topic:
“You never replied to what i said about muhammad and camel urine”
This is completely irrelevant, and you state all your justification for the original comment, but do you really believe the commenter who referenced this was referencing this? Therefore my original intention in reply to that comment was to highlight its prejudice and the needlessness of the comment (fair enough I used an incorrect term but still, I didn’t require anyone to justify my comment), I mean after all he was commenting about the bread, seriously? Who cares if someone doesn’t like the bread or not, yet, you still justify a comment which is not yours, and in fact I addressed this “you’re defending people who make comments who just..” yet you didn’t specifically address this, so do you at least notice you have a bias to defending certain commentators, even though they do the same thing which you accuse me as doing, now I’m sure you quoted it, so you chose not to reply to it? yet you criticise me for not addressing every single thing you type.
“Start taking responsibility for your words and actions, kid.” well maybe you should take responsibility for your blatant prejudice and bias
and by the way, you patronize me by referring to me as a “kid” yet, this would insult you, because, then you would be spending your time answering to one
“What studies? Link to them, because there’s no way i’m taking your word for it.”
You can’t believe anything I say because you don’t like your ideals being challenged do you? Is this why you become defensive if anyone opposes what u say, and become a sycophant if anyone has the slightest common belief to you
But any way, i did not have a general source for that information, this is a study which is usually experimented on to see the effect (in universities, by scientists etc.), but here is one of those studies and the facts of it: http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/an/an_slaughter.htm
So really there is no one single source supporting the notion, I don’t know if you realised but the more resources available, the higher the reliability
So the information to which you replied this to: “Ah, so that’s why it took you so long to respond. You had no idea what you were talking about and you needed to research.” Is also general knowledge, in fact I’m sure it’s taught in high school, so no one would need to research that
So there you go, that was just a reference to basic education, plus I gave you a reference to scientific backing (sorry, I probably need to explain that otherwise you wouldn’t understand the validity of the point)
Oh and by the way; “Ah, so that’s why it took you so long to respond.” What a pathetic response, the fact that you previously criticised me for insinuating you have no life (for instantly adding feedback to every single comment) yet you give me another common accusation that I didn’t reply instantly, because you think I didn’t know what to reply, first of all, commenting in reply to you is definitely not a priority of mine, if anything it’s a way to pass time (considering I usually reply whilst to or from college), and trust me it’s no difficulty “commenting” considering any college student probably completes a minimum of 3 essays per week, so this is kind of like a warm up thanks
(but even this is a waste of time, commenting to someone who is so fixed on their own views and are in denial of their own behaviour)
By the way, since you’re so concerned about references to information, why don’t you just widen your research, because you’re clearly in need of it
(oh and, if you don’t believe in the 1% notion and since you need references to information, don’t worry I’ll provide one even though it’s something which is referenced in any economics class or politics class, here’s a video to explain http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJoHYr57Ccs )
To the next point:
“taking away all the blood would mean that the weight of the blood in each package would need to be replaced” the blood is taken away during the killing of the animal, so in order to meet the weight requirement they would obviously put in the weight of the meat that would meet the weight requirement, so if the meat requirement was say 1lb , well then they would put in the amount of meat to equal that much, if the meat had blood in it, then they would package the meat AND the blood which equals to that amount
“Can’t you even read properly? Subway stores who became halal did so “following a strong demand from our[their] Muslim customers”
So, do you often restrict your view to one source of information? They obviously wouldn’t switch to halal if it massively disadvantaged them in sales. Why do you think that no other chain restaurants are doing so? But even if that isn’t convincing, in all seriousness (since you are so concerned), why don’t you just contact Subway directly and simply ask them the reason for their decision?
“Then i take it you’re for the redistribution of riches among those who have less” instead of guessing, I will tell you that I am against the incorrect blaming of those who are not responsible for the corrupt distribution of wealth, and the false accusation that other groups are withholding the majority of the money
In regards to Geordie
“As for the AK47 comment. Someone who allegedly has visited the tribal villages of Pakistan, should be well aware that weapons training comes second only to koran studies in the majority of madrassa.” But that doesn’t explain you accusing a random person of being subjected to the same knowledge just because you are aware of this stereotype
“mohammed was an arab and behaved in a very sexist manner towards his wives (prepubescent or otherwise); towards his slave women and” I’m sorry but you stating this point you contradict the following point; “I am by nature and training critical of everything other than first hand experience and observation” since you weren’t their to witness that. But anyway, I don’t mean this in an angry or defensive way, but can you tell me where you heard this from, I have heard questionable things about the prophet, such as him having more than one wife (however I don’t question them because I feel that you can’t judge a person outside of their era, as many historical figures have committed acts which would be seen as absurd in the modern era, but acceptable at their time) , but not this.
“You seem to be fixated on the slaughter process and miss the point why people are upset that a religious minority has taken the choice of meat away from the majority” as I mentioned, it was beneficial to sales, not only a religious minority. And there are many other restaurants which sell the type of meat you acquire, and it’s not like they are converting an originally British franchise into a franchise which sells halal meat only (since Subway does originate from America)
“Not forgetting the already high stress levels leading up to the bitter end” I’m sure, being hung by shackles, moved across a conveyor belt would result in higher stress levels leading up to their death
“You forget that the brain for the most part has no pain sensors and the bolt is aimed at the stem” but if the usual process is that impulses from the pain go to the brain stem, if that source of pain is shot straight into the brain then that will mean the brain stem will receive the impulse straight away and therefore the pain, but even if that explanation is false, as is referenced above, the EEG readings indicate no pain whilst the animals are being slaughtered
Geordie says
tahraS wrote: “…. but here is one of those studies and the facts of it: http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/an/an_slaughter.htm” Also: “…. but even if that explanation is false, as is referenced above, the EEG readings indicate no pain whilst the animals are being slaughtered…”
There are no references here, no journal, no date, no peer review etc. Is it another taqiyya claim. Please provide the ref, I’m truly interested in the alleged research.
Just to qualify, it’s the bolt and not the pain impulse that passes through the brain stem, because the brain has no pain sensors for the bolt to stimulate on route. No brain no pain – pun.
Subways has not supported your claim that sales and profits are the issue, only alleged requests by islamofascist pressure groups. Show me the press releases to the contrary. Again, Put up or shut up.
Even if they did, add hala meat to the menu to increase sales. Removing pork would have the opposite effect! Nothing to do with sales just the intolerant prejudices of the religiously retarded muslims that have infested our once great Britain.
Angemon says
The increasingly hilarious tahraS posted:
“that was what I was referring to, the fact that your name calling is random and meaningless”
Then stop obsessing over it. Fact is, you took way too personally the “welfare scrounger” bit. Are you on welfare of some sort of state support?
“the terms on which I am referring to you as, are based on what you have typed and displayed your behaviour as, whereas you- as you said, are randomly spewing insults based on nothing, the fact that you can’t see anything stupid and utterly meaningless about that is laughable.”
Says the guy who considered “racist” talking about muhammad and camel urine. You wouldn’t know what racist means even if the KKK lynched you. Act like an idiot, get treated like an idiot, you welfare-scrounging baboon. What’s laughable is that you can’t seem to grasp such a simple concept. But tells us more about how mentioning muhammad advised drinking camel urine is “racist”. And then come back to Subway forcing halal at the expense of pork and non-halal, because that’s the topic at had.
“now about the 1%, that was intended to address your insult to someone as a “welfare scrounger” of course, firstly i was addressing the fact that you assume Muslims are welfare scroungers”
Liar. Where did i said muslims were welfare scroungers? In fact, here’s what i said when you asked “do you think all muslims claim welfare?”
“Stop trying to ascribe me things i didn’t say. And you want to fight the “stereotypical” that all mohammedans claim welfare (not that i said that, mind you), you might want to go to the middle east and “educate” the people there:
”
So, why are you pretending i said all muslims claim welfare? Are you that desperate that you need to imagine things to take the moral high ground? Do you need to make stuff up to avoid the issue of Subway forcing halal at the expense of pork and non-halal?
“then I referenced other groups of people who are also would be classed as “welfare scroungers” (but pointing out how you choose not to criticise them, but instead Muslims) ”
Really? More of your “you claimed all muslims are on welfare” made up crap? Are you taking a degree on creative writing? If so, ask for a refund because your creativity seems to be kinda lacking… Anyway, back to Subway forcing halal at the expense of pork and non-halal, because that’s the topic at had, in case you forgot about it.
“and THEN I was suggesting that even if you did criticise all “welfare scroungers” it would be pointless to insinuate that they are taking all the money, because the true people who are withholding the vast majority of the worlds wealth is the 1%. There you go, sorry you couldn’t make that connection”
You mean, you moved on to unrelated crap because you tried to stray away from the halal issue, like you’re doing now? Unless the 1% are on welfare like the groups you mentioned (mosleems, chavs and single mothers) it’s time to come back to Subway forcing halal at the expense of pork and non-halal. And if they are, Subway and halal is the topic at had, so let’s get back to it anyway.
“now for someone who complained about irrelevancy, you sure are dwelling on the things which are not related to the topic, yet you address little (compared to everything else) about the topic in hand, you certainly contradict yourself.”
LOL! Says the guy who lied on several posts (claiming i said all mohammedans are on welfare) and is going on and on about the 1%! But projection is the least of your sins here. So, how about that halal Subway is forcing on everyone?
“This is completely irrelevant, and you state all your justification for the original comment, but do you really believe the commenter who referenced this was referencing this?”
Are you saying he had no clue mo-ham-mad prescribed drinking camel urine and made a random comment who turned out to be right? Damn, i need to ask him for the lottery numbers… You obfuscating moron, it’s obvious he KNEW about the prescription to drink camel urine!
“ Therefore my original intention in reply to that comment was to highlight its prejudice and the needlessness of the comment”
By calling him a racist a racist? You think the best way of saying someone “that was uncalled for” is to claim that he/she considers different races to be ranked as inherently superior or inferior to each other based on inheritable traits? You think the best way of saying someone “that was uncalled for” is to imply that he/she defends that members of different races should be treated differently? No, you know exactly the negative connotations associated with the word “racist”, and you used it anyway. It’s people like you who that cause the semantic saturation of the word “racist”. Keep using it like that and sooner or later it will mean nothing. BTW, are you a mohammedan? Because that would explain your over the top reaction at the mere reference of the camel urine prescription.
“you still justify a comment which is not yours”
Public forum. Internet. Freedom of opinion and speech. Tell me where in the rules says i can’t address comments not directed at me. And then return to Subway shoving halal down their customer’s throats.
“yet you didn’t specifically address this, so do you at least notice you have a bias to defending certain commentators”
It’s called “different opinions”, moron. That’s how things work in the real world – two people have different opinions, a third person is free to listen to those opinions and agree with one or both, or give a third opinion. In fact, you admitted “racist” was the incorrect term to use, so why are you droning on about my so-called “bias”? You dun goofed, you said so, and yet you’re trying to spin it to make it look like i’m the one at fault. Are you a welfare scrounger? Because you seems to have the lack of shame found on the average welfare scrounger.
“well maybe you should take responsibility for your blatant prejudice and bias”
What prejudice and bias are you talking about? That i called you out for the wrong use of the term “racist”, which is something you acknowledged? Or are you making things up again so you don’t have to address Subway shoving halal down its customers throats?
“and by the way, you patronize me by referring to me as a “kid” yet, this would insult you, because, then you would be spending your time answering to one”
No, then it would mean i was educating you. I pointed out your usage of the term racist was wrong. You thought about it and you acknowledged that. Should i feel insulted because you acknowledged making a mistake? Also, “kid” is slang for “young adult”, so if you’re in college, like you claim, it’s a perfectly acceptable term.
“You can’t believe anything I say because you don’t like your ideals being challenged do you?”
No, i can’t believe anything you say because you’ve proved to be unreliable. If i were to believe everything you say i’d be believing that referencing something that happened (muhammad prescribing camel urine) is racist.
“ Is this why you become defensive if anyone opposes what u say, and become a sycophant if anyone has the slightest common belief to you”
Need i remind you? Racist? Wrong usage? Acknowledgment? Now, how about pointing the studies you mentioned instead of trying to demonize me, kid? Unless, of course, you were talking out of your ass.
“But any way, i did not have a general source for that information”
So you were talking out of your ass. What a surprise!
“here is one of those studies and the facts of it: http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/an/an_slaughter.htm”
A website dedicated to islam saying that halal slaughter is better? Now, that is where you should look for bias, not on me addressing your misuse of the word racist. Tell me, why should i believe something that doesn’t match the facts? Have you seen a halal slaughter? If the animals didn’t feel pain then they wouldn’t flounder and trash around after getting their throat slashed. Do you want to see YT clips?
“ So really there is no one single source supporting the notion, I don’t know if you realised but the more resources available, the higher the reliability”
Kid, you only gave one source, and it was a biased source.
“So there you go, that was just a reference to basic education, plus I gave you a reference to scientific backing (sorry, I probably need to explain that otherwise you wouldn’t understand the validity of the point)”
“Scientific backing”? You point to a small page on an islamic website and call it “scientific backing”? LOL!!! You clearly have no idea how scientific test are performed if you think the link you provided is “scientific”!
“What a pathetic response, the fact that you previously criticised me for insinuating you have no life (for instantly adding feedback to every single comment) yet you give me another common accusation that I didn’t reply instantly, because you think I didn’t know what to reply”
What does you not knowing what to reply have to do with you insinuating i have no life? Are you that desperate you need to dig up old insults?
“ and trust me it’s no difficulty “commenting” considering any college student probably completes a minimum of 3 essays per week”
So, do you complete a minimum of 3 essays per week?
“By the way, since you’re so concerned about references to information, why don’t you just widen your research, because you’re clearly in need of it”
I don’t think you know how things work in the academic world. Do tell your teachers to do their own research when they asked you about the sources you used in your essays? Things don’t work like that, kid. YOU said scientific studies show halal slaughter is painless, so i asked you to back your claim. Which you didn’t. I mean, you linked to a page on an islamic site saying so, but that’s like linking to a tobacco company saying smoking doesn’t cause cancer.
“(oh and, if you don’t believe in the 1% notion and since you need references to information, don’t worry I’ll provide one even though it’s something which is referenced in any economics class or politics class, here’s a video to explain http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJoHYr57Ccs )”
And the irrelevant 1% topic drones on… Shouldn’t you be coming back to Subway and halal?
“the blood is taken away during the killing of the animal, so in order to meet the weight requirement they would obviously put in the weight of the meat that would meet the weight requirement, so if the meat requirement was say 1lb , well then they would put in the amount of meat to equal that much”
And they’d end up with LESS 1lb packages, not MORE.
“So, do you often restrict your view to one source of information? ”
Says the guy who gave ONE (clearly biased) source for his “halal killing is painless” crackpot theory.
“They obviously wouldn’t switch to halal if it massively disadvantaged them in sales.”
Do you know what would disadvantage them in sales? Refusing to cave in to muslim demands and being labeled as a racist, islamophobic company.
“ Why do you think that no other chain restaurants are doing so?”
You mean, like Pizza Express has been using halal chicken? Remember what happened when John Blackwell said that killing animals by letting them bleed to death after slitting their throats causes unnecessary suffering?
“But even if that isn’t convincing, in all seriousness (since you are so concerned), why don’t you just contact Subway directly and simply ask them the reason for their decision?”
Are you a complete idiot? YOU are the one not buying Subway’s explanation, not me.
“I am against the incorrect blaming of those who are not responsible for the corrupt distribution of wealth, and the false accusation that other groups are withholding the majority of the money”
That doesn’t answer my question. Are you for or against the redistribution of riches among those who have less? Yes or no, kid. Yes or no. After answering that, you might want to return to the topic at hand – Subway and halal. Here, let me give you the abridged version: you claim that halal slaughtering is painless and you gave a biased islamic website to prove it, even though John Blackwell, president elect of the British Veterinary Association, claimed killing animals by letting them bleed to death after slitting their throats causes unnecessary suffering and called on muslims and jews to allow the livestock to be stunned unconscious before they are killed. You said i should ask Subway why they introduced halal at the expenses of pork and non-halal and i said i believed what they stated to the press – because of muslim DEMANDS.
Marty says
tahraS, with respect to your ‘certain type of meat’ in your response, what type of meat are you referring to? Also when JAY BOO insulted your prophet, you called him racist, to what race are you referring to?
tahraS says
By “certain type of meat” I mean halal meat, and by that point I mean, since Britain is exposed to so much cultural food, it would make sense if the foods which originate from other countries can be enjoyed by everyone, for example chicken tikka originates from an Islamic country, it would be nice if the people who descend from that country could enjoy it too. I just wanted to get that point across but it seems like the focus is on my mistake of the use “racist” when really i just didn’t want to use a word like islamaphobe.
sorry, it’s just aggravating seeing irrational comments like the one made by Jay Boo, and whats worse is, people are not criticizing the fact that he assumes bread can be made out of the urine of a prophet, but instead are criticizing my incorrect use of a word
Angemon says
Lol @ tahraS. I’ve told him how his “more cultural foods” argument is self defeating when what Subway did was to take out choices. While it’s good to see he doesn’t let a failure get him down, it’s worrying to see him repeating the same mistake again while expecting different results.
First of all, chicken tikka is an INDIAN dish, you ignorant baboon. Now tell me tahraS, how is removing pork from the menu the same as introducing chicken tikka? Couldn’t they keep pork and introduce chicken tikka?
Also, you seem to think halal meat is a new kind of sandwich. FYI, halal meat refers to the way in which the animals are killed. Their throat is slit while they’re alive and they bleed to death, which can take minutes with large animals, like cows.
Juliette says
Great comments @Angemon and JAY BOO
Geordie says
“wow what a racist, considering …”
Wow! What a delusional idiot, considering race and religion are completely different things. Don’t they teach English in madrassa. Perhaps less time spent learning how to clean an AK47 and more time with a dictionary would have been beneficial. Then again, if you are planning on doing jihad in Syria building cowardly IDE’s, perhaps not.
Pathetic Imshalla.
tahraS says
Clearly, you are the one who is disillusioned, if you believe those irrational stereotypes which you pay your attention so closely to
Geordie says
In reality few people care about the animals we eat. Our species is at the top of the food chain and that rank comes with privileges.
What concerns us here is the spread of a religious ideology that is inherently barbaric, sexist, homophobic and rabidly anti-Semitic. Also totalitarian and as near fascist as makes little difference. Disliking and actively working against it is not racist neither is it a phobia. Their is nothing at all irrational about opposing barbarism, sexism, homophobia and anti-Semitism! If you think there is, you clearly have some problems and nothing you can say will ever justify such things.
I wish you well nonetheless.
Angemon says
“Irrational stereotypes”?
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/feb/17/terrorism.religion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=318XCf75KD8
How is calling as he sees it “irrational”? Tell me, did you graduate from a “liberal” college? Your abused dog personality is very worrying.
Geordie says
Ang wrote: “How is calling as he sees it “irrational”? Tell me, did you graduate from a “liberal” college? Your abused dog personality is very worrying.
I think you were directing this at tahraS , not me.
Angemon says
Yeah, i was, sorry for not specifying it. I started to write my post before your “In reality few people care about the animals we eat. “comment was posted, got sidetracked by RL and when i finished and pressed the “post comment” button i didn’t notice i wasn’t posting right under tahraS’s idiotic “irrational stereotypes” comment.
Geordie says
No problem Angemon. I find the comments section difficult to follow too. Not the first time I’ve written a long scathing reply, just to discover at the last moment what had upset me was contextually wrong and aimed at someone else.
I wish you well.
MacUalraig says
I will never eat Subway again. Fuck Subway.
JamesonRocks says
Boycott it is!
vickie says
I’m in. Subway Boycott it is!!
pongidae rex says
‘Multiculturalism’ is the name given to the historical transition from one dominant culture, to the next dominant culture. The next dominant culture, by the way, is not multicultural. It is militantly and savagely mono-cultural. It really is ironic but I’m beyond caring at this point. Europe is on yet another death march. To hell with them. Sheep deserve to be led to slaughter.
PJG says
Yes, that’s what I say. Multiculturalism is an “Interregnum” period before the next mob takes over. People hate me for saying this!
(At least I THINK that’s why people hate me…)
General Pershing says
This will happen in Sweden too. We have a real “love for islam” and everything multiculti in this now very sick country.
Only our voices and boycott of Subway will change this plague going around.
Edward Cline says
I stopped patronizing Subway in this country when I learned that much of the meat they offer is “halal,” that is, meat blessed by an imam and produced under the most horrific conditions imaginable (that is, Muslim butchers bleed animals to death, instead of killing them outright). Also, I no longer patronize The Olive Garden, which is owned by the Darden Corp., whose meat is also “halal.” And I don’t purchase any turkey products from Butterball, either, for the same reasons. Perhaps Mr. Spencer could speculate on the connection between “halal” and what Islamist terrorists often like to do to their victims — that is, kill them in the most agonizing way possible. This might be a natural psychological obsession as opposed to a doctrinal one.
gravenimage says
Edward Cline wrote:
Perhaps Mr. Spencer could speculate on the connection between “halal” and what Islamist terrorists often like to do to their victims
…………………….
Robert Spencer has touched on this before, Edward—I believe that Halal slaughter is considered good training for throat-slitting and beheading. *Ugh*.
Edward Cline says
Thank you.
tahraS says
Its funny how people only start caring about the well being of an animal when it involves the persecution of Islam. Seen as you don’t have a problem with intensive farming, which involves an animal being brought up in horrific conditions, as they are in restricted cramped areas from birth, until they are killed which involves killing them by machinery which sometimes doesn’t quite do the job, and leaves them partially alive whilst slowly dieing in a possibly agonizing way, so you have no problem with all that, yet you have a problem with animals being raised in normal conditions, and quickly being killed.
I hope this comment makes you realise that instead of believing what you think is right, you should actually educate yourself and try verify your information.
Angemon says
“Persecution of islam”? Lol, you grievance mongering moron! Mahommadans imposed their barbaric religious-based idea of cruel animal butchering on other people and you complain about “persecution of islam”? Tell me, how is islam being persecuted when it’s imposing its habits on non-mahommedans?
And why are you copy/pasting from Tiera_black’s post? Are you Tiera_black?What i told him applies to you too:
“Tiera, you smoke-blowing idiot. Halal-compliant meat refers to the way in which the animals are killed, not how they’re raised so stop trying to pretend that halal-compliant butchers don’t get their animals from the same producers you’re complaining about.
Here’s a question for you: if you had to be executed would you prefer to have your throat slit without anesthesia while you’re fully awake or would you prefer being stunned prior to having the killing blow delivered to you?
BTW, are you a muslim or just an ignorant, uninformed browbeat leftist college graduate? If you really cared about animal rights then you’d turn vegan (the easy way out), raise your own livestock (not everyone can do it, you need land, willingness to kill animals and knowledge on how to gut and fix them) or tried to made sure that you only buy from companies that companies that don’t practice intensive farming.“
Champ says
halal only meat? …ok then change SUBWAY to SHARIAWAY!
Champ says
SUBWAY has sold-out to islam & company, so SHARIAWAY would be more *honest*.
Wellington says
What, no more BLTs? Now, it’s personal, Subway.
Mirren10 says
I agree with all the posts saying boycott.
Write them a stinging email at the link below, and if possible, follow it up with a proper letter to head office.
If enough people let their displeasure be known, they will pull back. There are still more of us than there are mohammedans. If they don’t pull back, I sincerely hope they go totally bust.
http://www.subway.com/Applications/CustService/frmCustomerService.aspx
logdon says
I’m not over fond of cockroaches but it seems that many of our Indian restaurants specialise in them.
Can I ask that they be taken off the menu? Or would that be racist?
veggiedog says
Thank you for contacting SUBWAY® Restaurants. Your feedback is important
to the SUBWAY® brand and your recent inquiry has been forwarded to the
appropriate areas for further review.
Sincerely,
The Customer Care Team
SUBWAY® Restaurants
325 Bic Drive
Milford, CT 06461 USA
http://www.subway.com
Ph:1.800.888.4848
Note: This e-mail message is automatically generated as part of our automated e-mail system. Please do not reply to this e-mail address as this mailbox account is not monitored.
Tiera_black says
what do Indian restaurants have to do with anything? It’s not like it has anything to do with the topics of halal meat or subway. Or are you unaware that Indians are not Muslim and therefore don’t necessarily sell halal meat.
Geordie says
Are you saying that there are no Indian muslims or that they don’t open restaurants?
You would be wrong on both accounts. There are 177 million muslims in India and countless numbers of them have opened restaurants in the UK. I always ask before ordering and walk out if it’s a muslim establishment. I suggest you start doing the same. Boycott them everywhere, not just Subways.
They have even infiltrated the fish and chip shops here in the UK. Also the pizza fast food outlets. Always ask!
Kenny says
There’s only one response to this, boycott Subway! Hit them where it hurts, let’s collectively grow a spine for once and enact passive resistance. You can’t be arrested for that (yet). While we’re at it, if more people attended church there would be no possibility if them being converted to mosques. Just think, give up an hour per week to help preserve our culture. After all, empty mosques are rare on a Friday. Play them at their own game!
Kenny says
PS be fair to the Daily Mail; the reference “multicultural”, customers is small print beneath a picture. The headline of the story, in bold print, clearly states this Subway dhimmitude is Muslim driven and this correct accreditation is continued throughout the text of the story. Indeed, the Daily Mail is the most honest British daily for exposing creeping Sharia. If you want to see real sucking up to Islam, try the Guardian!
Joel Johnson says
Just emailed Subway that I would no longer patronize them for my favorite foot long sandwich.
mike says
Subway are finished, if they want to prosper in the UK they must become British and halal is not British, they are appeasing something these islands do not need, and that is bowing to the needs of minorities against the cultural needs and wishes of the majority – they are to all intends being rascist, and rascist of the worst kind, for they are being cowardly in the face of an tolerant minority.
Edward Cline says
MIke: I agree and concur with your sentiments. However, when you wrote “they are being cowardly in the face of an tolerant minority,” I think you meant “intolerant minority.” And Muslims are nothing if not “intolerant.” It’s their calling card in any “multicultural, diversity-ridden” culture.
tpellow says
“Boycott Halal”
http://www.boycotthalal.com/
tpellow says
“HALAL: A TASTE OF TERROR”
(Aug 2013.)
http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/index.php/home/root/news-libertygb/5970-halal-a-taste-of-terror
tpellow says
“HALAL MEAT IS THE FIRST GIANT STEP OF OUR ISLAMISATION”
(July 2013)
Written by Enza Ferreri.
http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/index.php/home/root/news-libertygb/5775-halal-meat-is-the-first-giant-step-to-our-islamization
Islamisdeath says
I have gone almost entirely vegetarian as a result of this halal torture sacrifice to demon allah thing. Many meat products we buy are halal but not marked as such, or so I have heard. Tonite we are having vegetarian sloppy joes. I will not fund jihad or support the torture death of animals. Islam is satanic period.
gravenimage says
“Nearly 200 Subway branches across the UK and Ireland have cut out ham and bacon, selling only halal meat, in response to demand from their multicultural customers.”
………………………..
This from the Daily Mail could not be more clueless.
This isn’t “multiculturalism”—this is Muslim supremacy.
Moreover, they are not just asking that Halal be *made available*, but demanding that non-Halal meat be barred, and all pork products removed entirely.
This is the *opposite* of “multicultural”—this is the imposition of Islamic norms, even *on Infidels*. But these clueless ‘journalists’ cannot recognize this.
And shame on Subway for caving into these Muslim supremacist demands.
gravenimage says
In the article itself, though, the Daily Mail *does* note that these are Muslim demands.
Sugarboots says
Jimmy Johns is far superior to Subway.
Islamisdeath says
Certainly is and it has a vegetarian offering.
Zorro says
Not to mention it’s freaky fast!
Alice says
It has come to my attention that UK Subways are no longer providing pork, and all meat is halal. Halal meat is inhumanely slaughtered, as well as having been sacrificed to an idol (Allah).
Qur’an 2:173 states: “He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], there is no sin upon him. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”
1 Corinthians 10:28 states : “But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, both for the sake of the one who told you and for the sake of conscience.”
Therefore, your corporation is forcing UK non-Muslims to eat halal meat, when Qur’an clearly states that the Muslims may eat non-halal if there is no choice. This is against the conscience and belief of Christians and those of other religions, and, since you give only ONE choice–halal–you have ceased to be multi-cultural, which was your original intent.
I stand in solidarity with the non-Muslims of the UK, as well as here, and intend to frequent your local competition until such time as this matter has been settled for the freedom of the rest of the population.
onisac says
Isn’t it just like most immigrants, come to a new nation to live and raise a family. But then turn around and try your best to make your new home just like your old home….
St. Michael Defend Us says
Most people use “sarc” in their posts to prevent people from thinking they are serious! Or, if you prefer, a “ha-ha” or “lol”.
Tommo says
Animals waiting their turn to be slaughtered and those having their throats slit in the Islamic method are stressed to the point where massive levels of toxins are released into the blood which contaminates the meat. High concentrations of fight or flight hormones can reside in the animals bodies and are not all flushed out with the blood letting. If it can be proved that meat killed under the Halal method is unfit to eat because of these contaminates, then we have a case to have all Halal meat banned .
Mark says
I wonder if the poor animal also opens it’s bowels at the point of murder, therefore covering it in its own shit.
Geordie says
They usually do, halal or not
Daniel Shine says
Why do they (Muslims) not allow freedom of choice or freedom of speech.
Geordie says
This has caused a public outcry and a media shit storm!
Add your comments to the SUBWAY customer service centre.
They wrote: Thank you for contacting SUBWAY® Restaurants. Your feedback is important to the SUBWAY® brand and your recent inquiry has been forwarded to the appropriate areas for further review.
Sincerely,
The Customer Care Team
SUBWAY® Restaurants
325 Bic Drive
Milford, CT 06461 USA
http://www.subway.com
Ph:1.800.888.4848
Rob says
What happend to everyone getting along this is just hatred for the sake of hatred it ludicrous how many of us eat from subway anyway it’s horrible
Champ ✿ says
SUBWAY SUBMITS to islam and company, what cowards! …when they should have taken a stand and said that muslims don’t have to order a bacon or ham sandwich and to allow others a choice. I mean hello!
But islamic supremacists don’t believe in FREEDOM of choice, and neither does SUBMIT-WAY.
veggiedog says
I have seen Muslims eating just fine in Non Halal fastfood restaurants. They order what they can eat, they avoid pork. Let them eat tofu and avocado with veggies, screw them.
GEORDIE says
I wont be going to subway again screw you.
I hope every one walks past all your shops to eat else ware what bullshit this is.
veggiedog says
You have too much faith in the stupid.
Geordie says
Another Geordie. R U from Geordieland too?
Islofob IS-1 says
As Christians should avoid any meat that is killed in the name of satan (allah) , I thank Subway for letting us know . Now, we can avoid the offence by not buying their products.
Its all about choice.
Geordie says
It’s all about religious stupidity. Don’t be as bad as the muslims and quote mythical beings when choosing food. Next you will be eating fish on Fridays.
veggiedog says
It appears KFC has also buckled to the Islamic bullies in the UK.
Semeru says
In response to Jaboo
The bread at Subway is absolutly horrible; it has a peculiar after-taste that I have never noticed elsewhere.
It must be made from Muhammad’s camel urine recipe.
In reality it is far worse
The 9 grain wheat bread might look and smell freshly baked but it contains close to 50 ingredients including refined flours, dough conditioners, hidden MSG, refined sugars, etc. Could bread this processed ever be real food? Certainly not, when it includes a chemical ingredient called azodicarbonamide, which is banned as a food additive in the U.K., Europe, and Australia, and if you get caught using it in Singapore you can get up to 15 years in prison and be fined $450,000. Azodicarbonamide is more commonly used in the production of foamed plastics, however, it is allowed in the United States as a food additive, a flour bleaching agent, and a dough conditioner that improves elasticity of bread. The U.K. has recognized this ingredient as a potential cause of asthma if inhaled, and advises against its use in people who have sensitivity to food dye allergies and other common allergies in food, because azodicarbonamide can exacerbate the symptoms. Let’s not forget it only takes 4 or 5 simple ingredients to make REAL whole-wheat bread including flour, yeast, salt, water, and maybe honey.
Semeru says
Just wondering, how many of you enjoy eating crab or lobster
Luke says
for over 10 years i have been a loyal customer of Subway and spent thousands in this shop. Sadly the company i once admired in business case studies has betrayed Britain. I will no longer get my regular foot long Italian B.M.T at lunch time. I thought among all the foreign shops in London where i live, places like Subway was a sanctuary that i could rely on to get a standard sandwich. Among all the cheap chicken shops and halal butchers it was always somewhere i could go. Sadly this is no longer the case.
I don’t take this lightly, I will not sponsor a illegal method of killing animals which puts them through extreme pain. I will also not be part of the Islamification of a Northern European Christian Country. This country is being force fed literally a new style of living to suit the rich and disregard the poor. We all need to boycott Subway! and pray this won’t start a trend with other highsteet multinationals such as Pret, Eat, McDonald etc. If it does, I will be forced to become a vegetarian when i no longer have nowhere to go which isn’t halal.
hoteldave says
I heartily agree and I will not be supporting Subway with my order any more.
There is enough Halal take away shops without forcing businesses like Subway to only have Halal killed meats.
JUST WHO DO THESE FOREIGNERS THINK THEY ARE??
Subway have given in to easily and this decision will come back to haunt them.
This type of killing of animals should never have been allowed in this country anyway.
EVERYBODY SHOULD BOYCOTT “SUBWAY STORES” IMMEDIATELY.
Darren Cox says
This is the exact reason I hate religion, I am an anti-theist but am not about to go on an anti religious campaign, not yet anyway, I am happy to ignore religion as long as it does not affect my life, but this just damn right pisses me off, I mean come on when are we going to stop cowtowing to the minority? If you don’t want to eat pork then don’t fucking order it, don’t ruin it for everyone else.
Geordie says
Daren Cox wrote: “This is the exact reason I hate religion, I am an anti-theist but am not about to go on an anti religious campaign, not yet anyway, I am happy to ignore religion as long as it does not affect my life, but this just damn right pisses me off, I mean come on when are we going to stop cowtowing to the minority? If you don’t want to eat pork then don’t fucking order it, don’t ruin it for everyone else.”
100% agree. I salute you Bro. Please keep posting on this forum.
Arthur Dunga says
Is there a list of the branches that have withdrawn the pork products? I have read most of the arguments on this thread, what everybody has failed to see is that this is profit driven. I think you might find the areas with the products withdrawn, are areas in the UK heavily populated with Muslims. Which = Larger profit for the parent company in the U.S.
Jeff says
[Re Islam, can anyone find the key word in this recently viewed web piece?]
The Background Obama Can’t Cover Up !
Islam, part of the Living River of History, affected even the 2012 US election!
The “headwaters” of this River was Adam, according to Judaism, Christianity, Islam etc .
In the OT (Deut. 28), “tributaries” wanting to join the River will be blessed while “distributaries” who want to flow away from it will be cursed. Those wishing to totally separate from the fresh Living River will end up as polluted, dying “oxbow lakes.”
In the OT we see Israelites repeatedly flowing away from God, then repenting and returning to Him; we also see heathen “oxbow lakes” creating their own “gods” and being allowed by God to plunder and kill the erring Israelites.
Then, at the right time, the Living River took on new life with the arrival of the Promised One who offers “living water.”
In the 7th century Islam, drawing from both OT and NT, chose to be a distributary away from this River. Many scholars have viewed it as the final Antichrist: note “scourge” (Isa. 28), “Assyrian” (Mic. 5), “Euphrates” (Rev. 9) etc.
God will allow this “scourge” to temporarily persecute and even kill apostate Jews (JINOs) and Christians (CINOs). Jews, especially in “entertainment,” seem more expert in apostasy than Christians since Jews have been at it 2000 years longer than Christians have (Google “jewishfaces.com/porn.html”) – but Christians apparently want to catch up to the Jews!
It’s apparent that others will join Islam in its end-time inquisition; its great oil wealth can captivate many leaders and already we are seeing apostate American leaders being bribed into turning against true American patriots.
Those who ignore (or try to dilute or destroy) the God-ordained Living River of History will be swept down it to an ocean made by their own never-ending tears of agony and despair.
The good news is that American JINOs & CINOs can overcome the “scourge” discussed above. The secret is found by checking out “II Chronicles 7:14” & “John 3:16” on the web.
There’s still time – and freedom – to Google or MSN “Obama Promotes Public Sex,” “Obama a Black-Slavery Avenger?,” “Dangerous Radicals of the Religious Right,” “Pretrib Rapture Politics,” “Mikey Weinstein, Jesus-Basher,” “Christ’s return is NOT imminent,” “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty,” “Pretrib Rapture Secrets,” and (for dessert) “Pretrib Rapture Pride.”
In light of Matthew 7:2, if we tolerate Christian leaders who lie to us and steal from us, we shouldn’t be surprised if God allows us to have political leaders who lie to us and steal from us!
Geordie says
Jeff, the key word in this recently viewed web piece is god. If like me you think that it’s the product of a delusional mind. The whole stinking edifice crumbles under it’s own weight.
Picture a trailer load of manure being tipped on a vegetable patch.
veggiedog says
This does not change the fact that i will boycott US Subway stores, new information.
Subway reports they do not offer and have no plans for Halal specific menu in the United States or Canada.
Florida Family Association sent out an email alert at midnight on May 7, 2014 which reported Islamists pressure Subway to serve only Sharia approved Halal certified meats at 200 stores in the United Kingdom.
From Florida Family Association
Thousands of people sent emails to top Subway officials. These emails to Subway officials stated in part: Your no ham, no bacon, Halal only menu is offensive to me and would be unacceptable to millions of other American consumers even in communities with larger Muslim populations. Please remember that Freedom is the hallmark of the American way of life. Sharia compliant food for everyone is not Freedom.
Bimbo says
All these idiots getting their panties in a bunch over the business decision of a fast food franchise. You can blame muslims all you want, but in reality it was most likely a bunch of white British executives at headquarter who determined they could increase their profit margin by catering to a specific demographic (Muslims in this case).
Angemon says
Bimbo posted:
“You can blame muslims all you want, but in reality it was most likely a bunch of white British executives at headquarter who determined they could increase their profit margin by catering to a specific demographic (Muslims in this case).”
Straight from the article:
“Around 200 branches of Subway have cut ham and bacon from their menus, serving halal meat in response to calls from their Muslim customers.
The sandwich chain said ‘following a strong demand from our Muslim customers’, 185 stores in the UK and Ireland have introduced the meat, which is prepared under strict Islamic rules.“