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Malaysia: Muslims against Sharia punishments branded “deviants”

May 4, 2014 8:50 am By Robert Spencer

Islamic Renaissance FrontHudud refers in Islamic law to the Sharia punishments on zina (various acts of sexual immorality — stoning for adultery, execution for homosexuality, lashes for various other offenses), theft (amputation of the hand), apostasy (execution), and the drinking of alcohol (lashes). Muslims in the West routinely affirm that they do not believe in these punishments and do not want to see them implemented in the West. They are, in other words, those legendary “moderate Muslims,” in whom so much hope is invested and upon whom so much public policy is based.

However, in Malaysia, the Islamic Renaissance Front has branded such Muslims “deviants.” No doubt the Imam Rauf, Ahmed Rehab, and Reza Aslan are jetting to Kuala Lumpur right now to explain to Ahmad Farouk Musa how he is drastically misunderstanding Islam.

“Muslims against hudud branded ‘deviants,’” by K Pragalath, FMT News, May 3, 2014 (thanks to The Religion of Peace):

KUALA LUMPUR: In its effort to push for the implementation of hudud on the basis of Islam, PAS was accused of silencing Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

“While promoting hudud, PAS is also silencing Muslims opposed to its plans by calling them deviants. They are also telling non-Muslims that it had got nothing to do with them.

“That’s PAS rationale. They claim to hold on to the divine when it is not divine,” said Islamic Renaissance Front (IRF) director Ahmad Farouk Musa.

Ahmad Farouk said this to a a packed hall during a forum entitled Hudud in Malaysia which was held at the Kuala Lumpur Selangor Chinese Assembly Hall last night.

The forum is the first which saw PAS being taken on by various other interest groups on the subject of hudud.

Public interest over hudud increased following the announcement by Kelantan Menteri Besar Ahmad Yakob that Kelantan is prepared to implement hudud.

Two private member bills will be tabled at the Parliament in June in relation to this.

A national level committee too has been set up by the federal government to study the implementation of hudud.

Hudud provides punishment for four serious crimes ranging from chopping of an arm to whipping and stoning an individual to death. The four serious crimes are adultery, apostasy, alcohol consumption and theft.

“There are no punishment for apostasy and adultery in the Quran. They claim that it is divine but it is the interpretation of people,” explained Ahmad Farouk.

The only punishment clearly stated in the Quran is the chopping of an arm for theft.

The other crimes and punishments are based on hadith. It is the recorded tradition based on the deeds and sayings of Prophet Muhammad.

Ahmad Farouk also pointed out that divinity is also misused by corrupt leaders to ensure the legitimacy of their governments.

He also revealed that a study conducted by an American university showed that the top countries that scored the highest points in the ratings for Islamic values were Western countries.

Saudi Arabia was ranked at number 131 and the number one nation is New Zealand. Similar positions also mirrored in the ranking for the safest country.

On that note, Ahmad Farouk dared PAS to tell the Malay Rulers that the royalty too would be subject to hudud instead of attempting to convince the Chinese community to support their move.

Responding to the accusations, Sepang MP Hanipa Maidin denied that PAS was silencing dissenting voices.

“We are willing to listen and we allow DAP and PKR to make noise,” he said.

He also disagreed with Ahmad Farouk’s assertion that PAS was using divinity in seeking support.

Hanipa who is also PAS legal advisor said that Muslims believe in the Quran and the hadith and Ahmad Farouk was wrong in understanding the source of hudud.

“You must argue using the science of Quran. There is a precedent and in it Prophet Muhammad allowed, for instance, stoning to death,” said Hanipa.

To this Ahmad Farouk responded: ”What is the hadith compared to the Quran? The Quran is indisputable whereas the hadith is disputable.”

Last night’s session was moderated by Zaid Kamaruddin who is Ikram Malaysia’s honorary secretary.

Other panelists were civil liberties lawyer Syahredzan Johan, and Save Sarawak River’s legal advisor Abun Sui Anyit.

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Filed Under: Malaysia, Moderate Muslims Tagged With: featured


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Comments

  1. umbra says

    May 4, 2014 at 9:16 am

    PAS, part of anwar ibrahim’s coalition against the ruling umno party. The alternative to the present umno led government has (strong and large) elements within it that supports hudud, as formalised into law in neighbouring brunei.

    malaysia, a choice between a deeply kleptocratic (present) or an islamic (any coalition with PAS) government. A lose-lose situation for many.

  2. mortimer says

    May 4, 2014 at 9:16 am

    Those legendary “moderate Muslims” are actually “deviants”.

    That’s the bottom line. In other words, reforming Islam or liberalizing Islam is impossible. The jihadists have the right to murder the reformers.

    • mortimer says

      May 4, 2014 at 9:20 am

      Regarding “Islamic Renaissance Front (IRF)” in the picture above the group of speakers…

      … a hadith says Islam will be ‘revived’ every 100 years…the ‘revival’ mentioned is that of military jihad.

      The word ‘front’ is normally associated with a militant, intolerant organization in a hurry to change society, i.e. ‘radicals’.

      • TJ Singh says

        May 4, 2014 at 11:57 am

        “Allah shall raise for this Ummah at the head of every century a man who shall renew (or revive) for it its religion.” – Sunan Abu Dawood. The person who “revives” or “renews” Islam back to its “pristine” form is called a mujaddid. Not sure if this refers to military revival or theological revival. There have been many claimants to the title of mujaddid over the centuries. My question is who decides who is a mujaddid and who is not?

        • Salah says

          May 4, 2014 at 1:58 pm

          “My question is who decides who is a mujaddid and who is not?”

          The one with the gun!

        • Jay Boo says

          May 4, 2014 at 2:01 pm

          “The person who “revives” or “renews” Islam back to its “pristine” form is called a mujaddid.Not sure if this refers to military revival or theological revival.
          ……. (My question is who decides who is a mujaddid and who is not?)”
          ==============
          I can’t answer the last question either but I agree with your use of double quotes especially around the word “pristine” If Muslims seek to “revive” or “renew” Islam back to its “pristine” form they must be planning a comedy revival.

  3. Bradamante says

    May 4, 2014 at 9:34 am

    Frightening to see what’s happening in Malaysia. But one small correction: I believe the original article is saying that Ahmad Farouk and this IRF are *against* the move by this political party the PAS to institute hudud, so they’re among the ones being called deviants.

    • Jay Boo says

      May 4, 2014 at 10:13 am

      Why should anyone expect a rose to grow from the seed of a weed?

      The so-called moderate Malaysia seems to be reverting back to the true nature of Islam much like the repackaged ‘new and improved moderate ‘ version of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt attempted to do when it had the chance.

      • umbra says

        May 4, 2014 at 10:47 am

        Malaysia is not a moderate islamic country, it is a somewhat islamic-lazy country. Islamic-lazy in that is does not fully enact or enforce sharia.

        The ruling clique is more corrupt than islamic. For them, money talks and islam sometimes (but very rarely) walks. This is because they know that excessive islam is bad for the economy. And whatever is bad for the economy is bad for their bottom line. Their bottom line is what they could squeeze from the economy through the people, treasury, foreign investments and pretty much anything of value (metaphorically speaking).

        • shrugger says

          May 4, 2014 at 12:18 pm

          So, normative Islam then. Whether lazy or not.

        • umbra says

          May 5, 2014 at 1:59 am

          @shrugger

          Yes.

          There is only islam, either it is or it is not – the sunni and shia are working that out amongst themselves at the moment. There are no moderate, extremist, conservative or liberal versions of islam. However, there are moderate, extremist, conservative or liberal followers of islam. One’s observation thus far is that the more precise adjective for ROP adherents is not drawn from the four adjectives mentioned above, but given in the binary form of “lazy” and “non-lazy” – following of their religion.

  4. Jay Boo says

    May 4, 2014 at 10:03 am

    What one seeks is what one finds.

    Islam is based on finding ‘the sin’ in others.
    A devout Muslim takes pride in spying on fellow Muslims.
    Angry Allah can never be appeased.
    Allah is merely the stage-prop for Islam’s religion.

  5. duh_swami says

    May 4, 2014 at 10:40 am

    Deviants huh. Islam itself is a deviation, every pious Mahoundian is a deviant. It would seem that some deviants are a little more deviant than other deviants, wait…I’m getting confused…Who’s the deviant again? I keep forgetting.

    • John Spielman says

      May 4, 2014 at 11:15 am

      Muhammad was the chief deviant. He was a demon possessed mass murderer thief liar misogynist and pedophile and because of this, Islam sanctifies the above behaviors .

    • shrugger says

      May 4, 2014 at 12:20 pm

      Just start at the beginning with Mo. I’m certain you’ll work it out.

  6. Sarash Bhatoolaul says

    May 4, 2014 at 11:08 am

    The view that Hadith is ‘disputable’ in Islam is itself disputable. Why the deeds , beliefs and traditions of the Holy Prophet (mpbuh) can be in question? A short answer seems to be the Prophet simply forgot to jot them down or he ran out of paper! This cannot be a credible answer for underrating the status of his deeds and personal beliefs. Therefore, I would argue the Hadith are as divine as the science of the Holy Qu’ran which is timeless,perfect and the ultimate truth. All rulers of Muslim lands must fully abide by the noble Qu’ran and the Hadith otherwise they are making a mockery of Islam, i.e., using Islam as a smokescreen to control and subjugate the infrastructure and concomitantly protect the power elites. Hudud or Sharia punishment is part and parcel of maintaining law and order in Islamic countries. The government of some countries like Turkey and Tunisia do not follow the teachings of Islam and indeed, the wearing of bourka , hijab and nicab are banned in public places including universities. These so called secular countries are therefore disobeying the commands of Allah but at least are not fooling the people they rule below. The more dangerous countries are virtually all those countries which are ‘Darul Islam’ but failing to practise full Sharia law as they should. Such countries must not use and abuse the term ‘Islamic’ whether in their flag, passport , international representation or at the UN as a window-dressing.

    • john spielman says

      May 4, 2014 at 2:04 pm

      You are completely deceived by Allah/Satan the “god” of this world. Islam is a doctrine of Satan as it falsely portrays God a capricious unjust impotent deity . The doctrine that you can counter your sins by good works is a lie from your god Satan. IT IS NOT TRUE IN THIS WORLD’S JUSTICE, NOR IN GOD’S JUSTICE. The Bible says that” the soul that sins will die”(eternal death /separation from God in Hell! The Bible Bible also says that it only through the “shedding of blood is there forgiveness of sin”-either a innocent animal in the Old Testament time or the blood sacrifice of Jesus who is God incarnate, the only lamb of God, in our time.

    • Salah says

      May 4, 2014 at 2:05 pm

      “If not for these stories and sayings, Muslims would have no coherent picture of Muhammad and the Quran would be incomprehensible gibberish.”

      Exactly, without the hadith and the sira the Qur’an is useless. If the hadith and the sira fall the whole islamic farce will follow.

      http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2010/07/fall-of-islam-la-chute-de-lislam.html

    • John C. Barile says

      May 4, 2014 at 10:06 pm

      So, then, you want a perfect Islamic state like Talibani Afghanistan or Pakistan’s Tribal Territories–the realm of abysmal ignorance, recurrent pestilence, endless vendettas by and against one and all, entrenched squalor, misery, injustice, and death. What insanity! And you seek open-ended war against all those who do not submit to this Hell, and call it your highest good?

      You poor, pathetic lunatic!

  7. Champ says

    May 4, 2014 at 12:11 pm

    Malaysia: Muslims against Sharia punishments branded “deviants”

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    LOL! We have a double standard backwards alert! …jeez muslims FOR sharia are deviants. My the double standards never seem to end …

    Devout muslim = deviant muslim

  8. eib says

    May 4, 2014 at 12:35 pm

    Mohammed is a fallen, false prophet.
    Only Jesus Christ rose.
    And only Europe went through a Renaissance.

    • Jay Boo says

      May 4, 2014 at 2:11 pm

      Jesus (IS) Jesus (LIVES)
      Muslims insist on writing Mohammed (SAW) yet that attribution must be spelled backward because low-life (has-been) false prophet Mohammed (WAS).
      Mohammed is dead just like his murderous ideology of Islam.

      • Jay Boo says

        May 4, 2014 at 2:21 pm

        More specifically Islam is spiritually dead like a beheaded Serpent of Satan it wriggles about even if you behead it and pretends to be alive even as it rots from the inside.

  9. dlbrand says

    May 4, 2014 at 2:22 pm

    Well of course they are deviants.

    Seems, again, Muslims want to pretend there are no “sacred Texts” that clearly establish the guidance for those in the fold of Islam.

    Anyone who has spent respectable time studying Islam knows, the learned in Islam, those with knowledge assert, part of the revelation Muhammad received from Allah is in the Qur’an, the rest, in hadith. In brief.

    Hence this:

    “O you who believe! Make not (a decision) in advance before Allah and His Messenger,” meaning, do not rush in making decisions before him, rather, follow his lead in all matters. Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that ibn Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, commented; “Make not (a decision) in advance before Allah and His Messenger,” [means], “Do not say anything that contradicts the Qur’an and the Sunnah.”

    (Tafsir, Ibn Kathir, on Surah 49: 1-3; Vol. 9, p. 185.)

    Hence this Muhammad-provided “revelation”:

    Narrated Anas bin Malik, Allah’s Messenger said, “You should listen to and obey your Imam (Muslim ruler) even if he was an Ethiopian (black) slave whose head looks like a raisin.”

    Narrated Ibn Abbas, “…whoever disunite [sic] from Al-Jama ‘ah (the Muslim group) [i.e. becomes separate from the Muslim group] even for a span and then dies, he will die as those who died in the Pre-Islamic Period of Ignorance (as rebellious sinners).” (Fath Al-Bari]

    (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Translated by: Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan, Darussalam, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 1997, Vol. 9, The Book of Al-Ahkam (Judgments) p. 162, #7142, 7143.)

    And this:

    The Prophet said: “And I command you with five that Allah commanded me: Listening and obeying, Jihad, Hijrah, and the Jama ‘ah. For indeed whoever parts from the Jama ‘ah the measure of a hand-span, then he has cast off the yoke of Islam from his neck, unless he returns.” (Sahih.)

    (Jami At-Tirmidhi, Compiled by: Imam Hafiz Abu ‘Eisa Mohammad Ibn ‘Eisa At-
    Tirmidhi, Translated by: Abu Khaliyl (USA), Ahadith edited and referenced by” Hafiz Abu Tahir Zubair ‘Ali Za’i, Final Review by: Islamic Research Section, Darussalam, First Edition, 2007. Ol. 5, The Chapter on Parables, #2863.)

    And this rendition of the hadith, narrated by Abu Dharr, stating, “The Messenger of Allah said, ‘Whoever separates the distance of a hand-span from the Jama ‘ah (main body of Muslims), he has removed the yoke of Islam from his neck.” (Hasan)

    (Sunan Abu Dawud, Compiled by: Imam Hafiz Abu Dawud Sulaiman ibn Ash ‘ath, Ahadith edited and referenced by: Hafiz Abu Tahir Zubair ‘Ali Za’i, Translated by: Nasiruddin al-Khattab (Canada), Final Review by: Abu Khaliyl (USA); First Edition, Darussalam, 2008; Vol. 5, Book of the Sunnah, 245, # 4758.)

    Hence this clear assertion from the multi-times-awarded-recipient of an ijaza (“a certification” asserting one is qualified to teach others on a particular subject, in this case, Islam), “Imam of his time in hadith and its sciences….. scholar of tafsir and its sciences … faqih in usul “(in brief, an expert in Islamic legal theory, methodology, and in the application of Shariah), Qadi Iyad:

    When someone intentionally calls the Prophet a liar in what he said or brought or denies and rejects his prophethood or his message and its existence or disbelieves in it, he has, by saying this, moved to a different deen.

    The consensus is that that person is an unbeliever and must be killed.
    ………….

    Muhammad ibn Sahnun said, “Anyone who doubts a single letter which Muhammad, may Allah bless and grant him peace, brought, is a denying unbeliever.

    He said that the judgment against anyone who rejects the Prophet is that he is killed.

    (Muhammad Messenger of Allah, Ash-Shifa of Qadi ‘Iyad Ibn Musa al-Yasubi, , Aisha Abdarrahman Bewley translation, Medinah Press, Cape Town, South Africa, Seventh print, 2008, 1429H, Glossary of Arabic Words, p. 386, 387.)

    If they reject the guidance provided by the prophet of Islam, they clearly reject Islam; should thus assert so, declaring themselves no longer Muslims but apostates , now free from the yoke of Islam.

  10. bill says

    May 5, 2014 at 9:01 am

    “You must argue using the science of Quran. There is a precedent and in it Prophet Muhammad allowed, for instance, stoning to death,” said Hanipa.

    The point Mr Hanipa (who is a lawyer I expect) is that there is no science in the
    Quran. Madmo making a decision about something is not science. Madmo was not a scientist!

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