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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

US Muslim groups won’t move to excommunicate Boko Haram

May 13, 2014 3:10 am By Robert Spencer

Shekau2Notice that the Daily Caller’s Neil Munro repeatedly asks Muslim leaders in the U.S. to offer Islamic counter-arguments to Boko Haram’s claims for Islamic justification for its actions, and they refuse to do so. This is, as I am quoted as saying in this piece, because they can’t.

“US Muslim groups won’t move to excommunicate Boko Haram,” by Neil Munro, Daily Caller, May 12, 2014:

U.S. Islamic leaders won’t try to formally excommunicate the Islamist Boko Haram group unless they can meet with its leadership to debate the religious legitimacy of its actions, a spokesman for a leading mosque told The Daily Caller.

“There is a great reluctance to excommunicate someone by extension. … It would be like convicting someone in absentia,” said Imam Johari Abdul-Malik, the spokesman for the “Home of the Migrants” mosque, or Dar Al Hijrah mosque, in Falls Church Va. If crimes have been committed, the Nigerian government should punish the individuals, he added.

On May 7, Abdul Malik led a group of Muslim advocates at a press conference at the National Press Club, where they denied that Islamic strictures are shaping Boko Haram’s years-long campaign of killing and kidnapping Christians.

“Islam is not the problem,” said Ahmed Bedier, a Florida-based Islamic advocate. “We’re tired of people coming on television and asking where does this ideology come from,” Bedier said. “Well, this ideology comes from nowhere,” he insisted….

At his May 7 event, Abdul-Malik urged Boko Haram to change its view of Islam, even as he declined to challenge its religious claims. “Groups like Boko Haram desire to take us back to a medieval … world where kidnapping of women and girls and enslavement and rape are acceptable,” he said.

“The world has changed … [and] in particular we are saying as modern day Muslims that we now reject all of these acts and that they are contrary to our faith,” he said.

However, Abdul-Malik didn’t promise any religious or political action by U.S. Islamic groups. When pressed May 9 by TheDC to cite Islamic texts that contradict Boko Haram’s Islamist arguments, Abdul-Malik quickly ended the phone call….

In a February video, Shekau justified his murder of Christians by quoting the Quran. The verse cited by Shekau, “We have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever, unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone,” is found in the fourth verse of the Quran’s 60th chapter.

“We wish to reiterate that our [jihad] is not for personal gain; it is meant to ensure the establishment of an Islamic state by liberating all Muslims from the excesses of the infidels,” the group’s spokesman, Abu Qaqa, said in 2012, according to study of the group. “We don’t kill innocent Muslims. The fact is the bottom line of our struggle is to set the Muslims free from enslavement. We only kill the unbelievers,” he said.

The Muslim groups aren’t excommunicating Shekau’s group because his Islamic claims are based on iconic Islamic texts, said Robert Spencer, the author of several best-sellers on Islamic law and traditions.

Slavery is endorsed in several sections of the Koran, where is described as “those whom your right [sword] hands possess,” he said.

The Quran is said by Muslims to be a direct transcription by Muhammad of statements by their god, Allah.

Close. Muhammad didn’t make transcriptions, according to Islamic tradition; his followers did. But in any case the Qur’an is considered to be a perfect transcription of the perfect and eternal book.

So “it is perfectly legitimate for a Muslim to capture a Christian woman and use her for sex,” Spencer said. “This is something that Mohammad did himself,” according to Islamic traditions, Spencer said.

The acid test of opposition to Shekau’s Islamic claims is whether the U.S. Islamic groups will declare that Shekau’s groups and ideas are heretical, said Spencer. But Islamic debates are very legalistic, so any attempted excommunication would require Islamic groups to cite Islamic texts before pronouncing “takfir” on Shekau and his movement, Spencer said.

TheDC asked Abdul-Malik if Americans Muslim groups would pronounce “takfir” on Boko Haram. “There is a great reluctance to excommunicate someone by extension. … It would be like convicting someone in absentia,” he replied.

The groups won’t take that step, Spencer said, because “they know Boko Haram has a perfectly good case based on the Koran … [and] they know that Muslims in their community … would be indignant towards them if they pronounce ‘takfir’ on a group that is following the Koran.”

Numerous U.S. Islamic groups contacted by TheDC declined to offer Islamic counter-arguments against Boko Haram. Instead, they merely said its actions are “unjust” and “un-Islamic.”

Shekau was trained as a Muslim cleric, according to a report by the International Crisis Group. He includes an Islamic title — imam — in his war-name, which is “Imam Abu Mohammen Abubakar bin Muhammad Shekau.” The name is also a salute to one of Islam’s earliest caliphs, Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr….

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Comments

  1. Salah says

    May 13, 2014 at 3:36 am

    “The world has changed … [and] in particular we are saying as modern day Muslims that we now reject all of these acts and that they are contrary to our faith,” he said.

    By “rejecting all these acts” they are rejecting the Qur’an itself, a book made for ALL people, for ALL time. It could be taqiyya, it could be shame, but he’s right: The world HAS changed.

    Muslim friend, keep your head down, the world has read your books and history. There’s no place for fairy tales or lies!

    http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2010/12/perfect-man-of-islam.html

    • No Fear says

      May 13, 2014 at 4:20 am

      Excellent post.

      • jihad3tracker says

        May 13, 2014 at 6:03 am

        Neil Munro is one of our rare media allies in a search for truth about Islam, and he is a courageous reporter when the president tries to duck “inconvenient” questions.

        I am sending an email of thanks to him at the Daily Caller for this article — perhaps JW readers here can also find a minute or two to do so…

    • Geordie says

      May 13, 2014 at 5:43 am

      Well said Salah. Unfortunately belief in fairy-tales is widespread and our species is determined to keep freedom to believe in them as a human right. Regardless how dangerous or disruptive they turn out to be.
      So much for self applied label Homo sapiens “wise man.”

      • Eels says

        May 13, 2014 at 6:49 am

        What have fairy tales got to do with it?
        Islam is no fairy tale.

        • eib says

          May 13, 2014 at 7:27 am

          The profanity Muslims have embraced is as illusory as a fairy tale, with none of the redeeming features.

        • Geordie says

          May 13, 2014 at 7:55 am

          Eels, I was replying to Salah. That said, of course it’s a fairy tale. A very dangerous plagiarised, X-rated fairy tale for blood thirsty adults. Think about it for a moment, sky god allah; flying monsters/Azazel; Ifrit and numerous subclasses of jinni; fairy god mothers called Qareen; not forgetting Awar, Dasim, Sut, and Tir. The hobgoblins from hell. WTF next, ugly trolls and three billy goats?
          A creep-fest to give James Herbert nightmares.

          What else would you call it, harmless religious mythology?

        • Eels says

          May 13, 2014 at 10:39 am

          Fairy tales in my culture are benign. Akin to folklore, known to be untrue and usually containing some moral or meaning. I would define them as harmless, maybe instructive, examples would include Sleeping Beauty and Little Red Riding Hood. I resent, and accept this may be personal, the equivication of a part of my childhood with something as dark and controlling as Islam.
          I see no suicide bombers motivated by any of the three Billy Goats Gruff and no one ever flew a plane into a building in the name of Pinocchio.

        • voegelinian says

          May 13, 2014 at 1:42 pm

          Classic fairy tales from Western tradition weren’t all that benign — those collected by the Brothers Grimm were often quite grim. In one respect, it’s good we have progressed past the Middle Ages; in another respect, however, it’s not so good — when our Modernity carries the baggage of a fashionably Enlightened worldview that cannot rouse itself to the Reason and Ire necessary to condemn and appropriately combat a global medieval cult, Islam.

        • Geordie says

          May 13, 2014 at 4:54 pm

          voegelinian wrote: “when our Modernity carries the baggage of a fashionably Enlightened worldview that cannot rouse itself to the Reason and Ire necessary to condemn and appropriately combat a global medieval cult, Islam.”

          So you are saying the very things that make us better than islamists are also why we have problems combating them. I’m pleased the penny has dropped. It cuts both ways.

        • voegelinian says

          May 13, 2014 at 1:45 pm

          And speaking of classic fairy tales, the Clueless West has been re-enacting Little Red Riding Hood for years now, cooing over how kindly and moderate the Muslim wolf looks in his grandmotherly garb while his moderate smiles and wiles barely conceals the fangs his moderate smile is baring.

        • voegelinian says

          May 13, 2014 at 5:07 pm

          “So you are saying the very things that make us better than islamists are also why we have problems combating them. I’m pleased the penny has dropped. It cuts both ways.”

          Yes. I analyzed this deceptively simple formula at great length in my essay Montaigne: Godfather of PC MC? about the great 16th century essayist, philosopher and statesman Michel de Montaigne:

          http://hesperado.blogspot.com/2009/02/montaigne-godfather-of-pc-mc.html

          My conclusion (which must be supplemented by the detailed analysis that leads to it) was that, according to Montaigne’s understanding:

          We are worse because we are better!

          It’s a curiously perverse formula, but all too real and influential in our era. It wouldn’t be so bad if there weren’t a Noble Savage threatening to mass murder millions of us in the war they are waging against us now.

        • Salah says

          May 13, 2014 at 7:00 pm

          “We are worse because we are better!”

          There’s only one way to reverse this trend…

          “Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatsoever else you do, do all to the glory of God. Be without offence to the Jews, and to the Gentiles, and to the church of God: As I also in all things please all men, not seeking that which is profitable to myself, but to many, that may be saved.”
          Corinthians 10:31-33

        • Geordie says

          May 14, 2014 at 2:04 am

          Salah wrote: ” Blah blah … do all to the glory of God. Blah blah …”

          You sound like a fanatical muslim.

        • Salah says

          May 14, 2014 at 2:57 am

          @Geordie

          You wrote:
          Salah wrote: ” Blah blah … do all to the glory of God. Blah blah …”

          You sound like a fanatical muslim.

          ——————

          Fanatical Muslims don’t write “Blah blah…” on the net, they write it with blood, our blood.

        • Geordie says

          May 14, 2014 at 3:12 am

          Salah wrote: “Fanatical Muslims don’t write “Blah blah…” on the net, they write it with blood, our blood.”

          Then they justify the spilling of blood by reciting quotes from their magic book and invoking their sky god friend. That’s why you sound like them! It’s a slippery slope.

        • PJG says

          May 14, 2014 at 6:05 am

          Stop it, Geordie.

        • Geordie says

          May 14, 2014 at 8:44 am

          PJG wrote: “Stop it, Geordie.”

          As tempting as that sounds, I didn’t start it.

          Perhaps I should add quotes from Biggles Flies North to my posts. Just as useful as magic books!

        • gravenimage says

          May 14, 2014 at 5:04 pm

          Geordie wrote:

          So you are saying the very things that make us better than islamists are also why we have problems combating them.
          …………………………

          Geordie, I don’t believe we have to *embrace* barbarism—but we have to be able to *recognize it*.

          I believe that many Westerners are at this point willfully unable to recognize evil when they see it. And you can’t oppose what you can’t acknowledge as existing.

        • Geordie says

          May 15, 2014 at 4:38 am

          gravenimage wrote: “I believe that many Westerners are at this point wilfully unable to recognize evil when they see it. And you can’t oppose what you can’t acknowledge as existing.”

          Very good point and thanks for the civil none preaching reply.
          I would suggest that people turn a blind eye to anything labelled “religion” due to some unwritten rule that has crept into our society. Even if that religion is completely antagonistic to the general good and based on unsubstantiated mythology. Bad things should not be able to hide in the sanctuary of religion.

    • mortimer says

      May 13, 2014 at 8:43 am

      No. The world hasn’t changed for the Muslim: the ‘perfect’ world exists in their delusional minds and the present year is AD 632.

      Rape, beheading, enslavement and robbery, lying to the enemy tribe, treating women like chattels…these are all normative Islam, rather than an aberration.

    • Brian Hoff says

      May 14, 2014 at 5:04 pm

      I see the bigot is back. The moderm muslim isnot going against the Koran or the sunna of the founder of Islam, we are definely what the Koran and what is sunna. Not verything the founder of Islam did is sunna, like when old did he shit in his clothes so does that mean we must shit in our clothes no it does not. So muslim are free to change what is sunna when time change. You would be hard press in our mosque to find any muslim who support Boro Haram.

      • Foolster says

        May 14, 2014 at 5:26 pm

        “I see the bigot is back.”
        Who are you talking about?

        So, it’s bigotry to point out muslims by large (Hamas, Boko Harum, Iran, Al Quida, etc. etc.) do not see the Koran and Sura are changing to fit modern times? If that is the definition of “bigotry”, then we are all bigots here.

        “The moderm muslim isnot going against the Koran or the sunna of the founder of Islam”
        Ah, so modern peaceful Islam isn’t against Islam! Maybe you should make it a priority to tell that to your co-religionists who are misunderstanding thier religion rather than us, who are pointing this out?

        That’s nice that people in your mosque don’t support boko Harum. The problem though is many many muslims refuse to denounce terrorist groups like BH and Hamas etc.

  2. Georges says

    May 13, 2014 at 3:52 am

    Why should they move? This has been the muslims tactics since the inception of their cult. Spread Fear and force conversion.

    • john spielman says

      May 13, 2014 at 7:54 am

      for mulsims to deny that Boko Haram ‘s behavior is a violation of Islamic tenets is to deny Muhammed, since Muhammed himself was DEMON POSSESSED MASS MURDERER THIEF LIAR AND PEDOPHILE!

      • mortimer says

        May 13, 2014 at 8:44 am

        Exactly. The sunna of a 7th century amoral robin hood.

  3. EYESOPEN says

    May 13, 2014 at 4:37 am

    Excellent work Robert. But I advise you to grow eyes in the back of your head. If your logical arguments and revelations about izlam are heeded by more and more people – as they seem to be – some of these SOBs might decide that you are too powerful an enemy. God bless you (and I know your Guardian Angel is with you).

  4. bill says

    May 13, 2014 at 4:54 am

    ‘the bottom line of our struggle is to set the Muslims free from enslavement’
    Substitute Germany for Muslims and you have Hitler’s basic message. Everybody was out to destroy Germany (especially the world Jewish conspiracy) so whatever measures the Nazis took to protect Germany (Islam) were justified.

    • eib says

      May 13, 2014 at 10:59 am

      Enslavement?
      That claim is worthy of loud, continuous laughter.

    • thomas_h says

      May 13, 2014 at 11:39 am

      “Substitute Germany for Muslims and you have Hitler’s basic message. “

      The “word substitution” “bill” is proposing is in fact a “meaning substitution”: absurd and mendacious.

      However if you substitute “false bill” for “bill” the swap is both self-explanatory, and esthetically pleasing.

      • gravenimage says

        May 14, 2014 at 5:13 pm

        Thomas, Bill is not talking about Germany *today*. He is saying that Hitler justified his savagery early on by pretending that Germany was threatened, just as Boko Haram is now raping and killing to “defend” Muslims.

        This *is* what tyrannical creeds like Fascism and Islam do while gaining power—play the victim while horribly victimizing others.

  5. bill says

    May 13, 2014 at 5:01 am

    Bedier said. “Well, this ideology comes from nowhere,”
    The basic state of denial for Muslims and Islamic apologists. Jihad has nothing to do with Islam it comes from nowhere. Nothing ever comes from nowhwere

  6. duh_swami says

    May 13, 2014 at 5:48 am

    FOX should have Robert on to explain the facts of life to Kelly, Hannity and Bill O, who all talk out of both sides of their mouth at the same time about Islam..
    All three think ‘radical’ Islam is the problem. Hannity claims Boko hijacked the religion. Bill thinks Islamic country’s should police themselves on terrorism, and Pakistan should send troops to Nigeria. FOX is acting like a propaganda outlet for CAIR. ‘Yes there is a problem with radicals, and sharia law, but Islam has nothing to do with it’…Just ask any one of them. PHHHT.

    • ben t says

      May 13, 2014 at 6:29 am

      Fox, especially O’Reilly, more and more cross over the line and DO talk out of both sides of their mouths. Their IS no “fair and balanced” way to deal with an obvious EVIL such as Islam. Unless they go through the dramatic change we call “the Enlightenment” all faithful mohammedans are evil.

    • PRCS says

      May 13, 2014 at 7:51 am

      It’s even worse during the day on “The Five”; five people who have either never bothered to do their homework or are prohibited from calling it what it is.

      Listening to each of them emphasize–as if fact–“radical” Islam , radicalized Muslims, Muslim radicals, Muslim “extremists”, etc.

      And none of them ever explains what they think those terms mean.

    • Wellington says

      May 13, 2014 at 8:57 am

      Laura Ingraham too, duh_swami, along with those you mentioned. I was particularly perturbed over a year ago when both Charles Krauthammer, whom I generally admire, and Bill Kristol dismissed Geert Wilders as a bigot and invoked that indefensible distinction between Islam and Islamism. I have to wonder if any of these very bright people at Fox really know deep inside the truth about Islam. I suspect they at least suspect the worst. Well, as long as terms like “radical Islam” and “Islamism” are used, at Fox or anywhere, I know you know we still have a long way to go.

    • bill says

      May 13, 2014 at 10:22 am

      BO thinks Pakistan should send troops to Nigeria. I have always thought him a fool now I know I was right. He is an ignorant fool. Pakistan cannot control its own Islamists never mind send troops to another country, one in fact where they would be completely out of place.

  7. tpellow says

    May 13, 2014 at 7:19 am

    ‘Telegraph’ (£)-

    “If Boko Haram don’t ‘bring back our girls’, what are we going to do about it?”

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100271092/if-boko-haram-dont-bring-back-our-girls-what-are-we-gong-to-do-about-it/

  8. eib says

    May 13, 2014 at 7:49 am

    In Islam, no one can “excommunicate” anyone.
    Excommunication is a Christian term and concept relating to the reception of the Eucharist. It has nothing to do with Islam.
    Islam has no structure for reception and excommunication, it is a chaotic religion and community claiming to have order.
    I do not accept Muslim claims on my religion, my history, myself, my property, and my culture.

    • Alarmed Pig Farmer says

      May 13, 2014 at 12:06 pm

      In Islam, no one can “excommunicate” anyone.

      Yeah, I had the same thought. But then I realized the sarcasm in Spencer’s use of the term. He was making a fair but unflattering implicit comparison between Islam and Catholicism.

      They don’t have excommunication, but the *do* have a strong tradition of execution. They execute the process of de-blasphemization, so to speak.

    • voegelinian says

      May 13, 2014 at 1:53 pm

      Islam does have its own version of excommunication. It’s called Takfir.

      Muslims also refused to pronounce Takfir upon Osama bin Laden, btw.

      • gravenimage says

        May 14, 2014 at 6:36 pm

        Very true. As I note below, Muslims are *much* more likely to declare Takfir on the “insufficiently Islamic” than on violent Jihadists.

    • Brian Hoff says

      May 14, 2014 at 5:22 pm

      Islam can remove sect that are unIslamist by than large grathing of Islamist scholar without the Caliphate it would take 90% plus vote out of 100,000 scholar.With the Caliphate he need only 50% plus one to do so. That why I wrote to my congressman to have the USA support the return of the Caliphate.

      • Foolster says

        May 14, 2014 at 5:31 pm

        Yes, this is what’s happening to some extent – violent Musims are declaring peaceful ones non-Muslim!

        I mean, there’s no way a caliphate, most likely from a country that is vastly favorable to strict Islamic law such as Saudia Arabia, Iran,Iraq or Syria would vote against a peacefrul brand of Islam! Nope! Can’t see that happening at Aaallll!

      • gravenimage says

        May 14, 2014 at 6:54 pm

        “Brian Hoff” wrote:

        Islam can remove sect (sic) that are unIslamist (sic) by than (sic) large grathing (sic) of Islamist scholar (sic) without the Caliphate it would take 90% plus vote out of 100,000 scholar (sic).With the Caliphate he (sic) need (sic) only 50% plus one to do so.
        ………………………………

        A lot going on from old “DefenderofIslam” here.

        Firstly, he never mentions where he got these figures—but hey, let’s go with them.

        Notice he doesn’t say why it would be difficult to get 90% of “Islamist scholar” to declare Boko Haram “unIslamist”. Surely, this should not be difficult—it’s not as though what Boko Haram is doing is in accord with Islam and the Qur’an…oh…wait…

        The fact is, as I’ve noted, that Muslims are *far* more likely to declare “moderates” unIslamic than they are pious Jihadists like Boko Haram, al -Shebaab, or the Taliban.

        More Taqiyya:

        That (sic) why I wrote to my congressman to have the USA support the return of the Caliphate.
        ………………………………

        What *absolute crap*. The idea that “DefenderofIslam” wants to see the return of the Caliphate so that violent Jihadists can be “excommunicated” is bs.

        What DoI won’t tell you is that where there is a Caliphate Muslims don’t even have to pretend that they are acting defensively—instead, they can wage violent offensive Jihad against the “filthy Kuffar” with utter impunity.

        And part of that offensive Jihad? Why, the taking of Infidel sex slaves, just as Boko Haram is doing.

        Try again, creep.

  9. Prinz Eugen says

    May 13, 2014 at 7:59 am

    Islam does not excommunicate — it beheads, shoots, mutilates, stones or demands OBEDIENCE from moslems and in-fiddles alike.

    The “harem bozos” are following the holy commands of pedophile Mo and his moon god, allah. Along with the Taliban, Al Qaida and MB, they are among the current super stars of islam! We can expect Muillah Barry to say “Rspect them!”

  10. Guy Macher says

    May 13, 2014 at 8:11 am

    “The world has changed … [and] in particular we are saying as modern day Muslims that we now reject all of these acts and that they are contrary to our faith,” he said.

    Too bad no one asked him directly if this kidnapping was contrary to Mohameddanism.

    • PJG says

      May 13, 2014 at 10:11 pm

      He is contradicting himself. But many will swallow it. T
      “Modern day Muslims” is a nice phrase which is bound to appeal.

    • Brian Hoff says

      May 14, 2014 at 5:28 pm

      Muslim donot workship Mohameddan.

      • gravenimage says

        May 14, 2014 at 7:28 pm

        No—but they consider the foul “Prophet” Muhammed—a war lord, rapist, slave trader, pedophile, caravan raider, and mass-murderer to be the “ideal man”, and his vile behavior a model for all time.

        But what does “DefenderofIslam” care about this? He just doesn’t want the “filthy Kuffar” to get the technicality of Mohammedans not “workshipping” him wrong.

  11. nacazo says

    May 13, 2014 at 8:18 am

    journalists covering boko haram (officially, the congregation of people for islamic living, proselitism and jihad) routinely tell us how nigeria is a country with a lot of corruption and income disparity. yet in the mostly christian south with the same corruption and disparity you dont see a group of christians quoting the bible to enslave teenage girls.

  12. citycat says

    May 13, 2014 at 8:49 am

    About the girls on radio 4, 5pm, yesterday

    “forced conversion is not an Islamic tradition”
    what?
    There is NO CHOICE for most converts
    and
    “it is a terrorist group”
    Not part of Islam?
    And
    “it is abuse of religion”
    yeah, Islam is abused by boko haram, all through the Koran

    one guy said that this rape tenet of Islam needs addressing,
    he was quieted straight away by the interviewer, who, i’m not sure, seemed to say,
    “shhhhhh”

    • eib says

      May 13, 2014 at 11:02 am

      A close look at Muslim history and “seeing Islam as others saw it” by way of Robert Hoyland belie the claim that there was “no compulsion in religion.”
      Most conversion in Islam was due to invasion, violence, compulsion in every sense of the word.

  13. Jaladhi says

    May 13, 2014 at 9:06 am

    A Muslim will never ever criticize , ostracize another Muslim group, no matter how horrendous their actions are. US Muslims never criticized “unconditionally” 9/11 attackers – all they said was these guys are not Muslims because Islam never teaches such things – what a lie . So you think US Muslims are going to criticize Boko Haramis – don’t hold your breath. A Muslim is a Muslim first, whether he lives in US or on North Pole – his allegiance is to his Muslim ummah and not to US or to any country or to human beings. Such is Islam – it should be exposed for its atrocious teachings and behavior!

    • PJG says

      May 13, 2014 at 10:18 pm

      Jaladhi: what Muslims WILL do, however, is criticise other Muslims on the basis of nationality. They blame the other country’s “culture” and say those are not true Muslims in whatever country it is.

  14. William says

    May 13, 2014 at 10:19 am

    “There is a great reluctance to excommunicate someone by extension. … It would be like convicting someone in absentia,” said Imam Johari Abdul-Malik, the spokesman for the “Home of the Migrants” mosque, or Dar Al Hijrah mosque, in Falls Church Va.

    There is a great reluctance to excommunicate someone by extension? Then, how about those that you have branded and will continue to brand as apostates? Was that done by extension? I don’t think so. This is more double talk by the fork-tongued Mohammedans.

  15. Lisa England says

    May 13, 2014 at 10:25 am

    Every single Muslim – even the most ‘moderate’ Muslims – I’ve seen or heard, on any medium, all desire a Caliphate.

    The ‘moderate’ ones say: “Well, we can’t really have Sharia (or Caliphate), yet, because we’re not living in a Muslim country. And we oppose people carrying out violent acts to achieve a Caliphate; we are trying to push and urge Muslims into using the democratic process to get the changes they wish in society”.

    Al-Qaeda, the Taliban and Boko Haram are the Muslims version of an Armed Forces; every grievance they state is shared, to some degree, by every single Muslim. They say the exact same things, except that Muslims in our nations have learnt to say them in ‘acceptable’ ways.

    Almost 90% of Muslims either strongly support, or sympathise, with their Islamic Armed Forces.

    Note the Islamic campaign against Michelle Obama’s placard. And especially note the Islamic campaign against the #BringOurGirlsBack Hastag: Apart from the fact those girls are not ‘our’ girls (they’re African/foreign), the Muslims are showing their absolute hatred of White people ‘daring’ to ‘ hijack’ the cause.

    • Alarmed Pig Farmer says

      May 13, 2014 at 12:01 pm

      The ‘moderate’ ones say: “Well, we can’t really have Sharia (or Caliphate)… And we oppose people carrying out violent acts to achieve a Caliphate; we are trying to push and urge Muslims into using the democratic process to get the changes they wish in society.”

      How dare these Unicorns oppose carrying out violent acts? They are commanded by Allah to do just that. I think these Unicorns, purposefully or not, failed to tag on the word “yet” to the statement.

  16. bill says

    May 13, 2014 at 10:28 am

    Why was my comment removed without acknowledgement? That is very bad practice as well as being impolite

  17. gts58 says

    May 13, 2014 at 1:10 pm

    Proof positive there are very few, in any moderate Muslims. Islamic clerics in America preach mostly radical interpretation of the Quran. There is little, if any attempt to reform Islam or to bring it into mainstream civilization. The fact that the “cult of head cutters” has remained silent over this latest kidnapping of 300 girls says a lot! Civilization is headed towards a new Crusade – a crusade that must be fought for the survival of the world as these people are fanatics. In their world, there is “NO ROOM” for any other belief other than their own warped lunatic view of the world.

  18. Walter Sieruk says

    May 13, 2014 at 1:38 pm

    These Islamic terrorists who are members of Boko Haram have commited a great sin bythe kidnappeing of those girls. So much so that the Bible teaches that such men as these jihadists should be put to death for it. For it is written “Whoever steals someone to sell them as a slave or to keep them for their own slave must be killed.” Exodus 21:16. [ERV]

    • Geordie says

      May 13, 2014 at 4:06 pm

      Walter Sieruk the argument that a story in one magic book trumps a story in another, has nothing at all to do with it. Abducting girls for sale as sex slaves is wrong by all civilised standards. Anyone who feels the need to seek guidance on that point from a magic book should be ashamed.

  19. lebel says

    May 13, 2014 at 3:31 pm

    Why don’t Muslims use the taqqiya and simply lie? why not just lie and say that they takfir boko haram? thats what taqqiya is for, lying to the infidels.

    Its strange that Muslims who are ordered to lie to infidels, choose not to en masse.

    I always found it funny that this site tells us that Muslims are taught to lie to infidels and then turns around and tells us that some Muslims refuses to condemn terrorism etc (never thinking to explain why that Muslim refuses to lie)

    • Geordie says

      May 13, 2014 at 5:08 pm

      “Its strange that Muslims who are ordered to lie to infidels, choose not to en masse.”

      It’s a symptom of our western societies that these muslims feel protected from us by our own laws, therefor they have nothing to gain. They call for sharia but happily hide behind western laws when threatened. Now THAT is taqiyya, as described. It’s not so much the lie that’s important, it’s the advancement of their cause by deception that counts.

    • gravenimage says

      May 14, 2014 at 7:52 pm

      More crap from lebel—this is something he does on a regular basis here.

      Muslims use out-and-out bald-faced Taqiyya only when they have to—when they can get by using Kitman, half truths, obfuscation and sleight-of-hand they do so; which is, in fact, most of the time.

      His idea that if Muslims ever tell the truth that everything here at Jihad Watch must be false is simply grotesque.

      As a point of fact, what lebel is doing here is *in itself* a type of Taqiyya—which shows that its use can be quite subtle. *Ugh*.

  20. Beth says

    May 13, 2014 at 5:02 pm

    Wow. What else can be said?

    Who is not appalled at the commands of beheadings? Crucifixions? Gang Rape?

    Who is not appalled at those teachings/commands???

    Where in the h*ll is hillary? … Where in the h*ll are the rest of the leaders and media?… that those teachings are acceptable to them? Denying the fact that their koran ordains and commands such acts – makes it no less real.

    The leaders of this world – sicken me – to put it bluntley. They’re supposed to be smarter than the rest of us – BECAUSE – they’re the leaders.

    Well – I decided a long time ago – they’re not my leaders.

    I’ve also come to realize – they’re not elected – they’re selected – by the very same ones who see nothing wrong with the act of crucifitions or beheadings.

    Sheeze!!!!!!!!!! wake up people. These folks are what has infiltrated powerful positions – and they (so far) stand un-opposed.

    As for the ones who not only support gang rape and beheadings – I have no name for them – other than stanger. An enemy – I know. But strangers? -who do such things? I don’t know them – and never want to. I’d rather die in this life.

    And to you leaders – What right do you have to sell that which was not yours to sell in the first place? Well, there is a saying “Eat, drink, and be merry” – with those who smile in your face and sound wise (to the fools) but their inage has clearly been exposed for all to see: They see nothing wrong with beheadings and gang rape.

    If any muslim comes forth to deny? O boy – do I have a few words for you!

    Let us begin with the ‘scripts’ of your own koran that command you to lie to the ‘infidels’. And, Infidels, they are – of the ‘left’ – because they believe you – as they shout “We be the humanitarians of the world”.

    pfffffffft

    Do not lie
    Do not steal
    Do not cheat
    Do no murder
    Do not covet

    FIVE golden rules – for Peace for all.

    Is that so hard to understand for the voices of this world?

    Is it?

    Where in the h*ll have they come from? that they see no wrong in such teachings/commands?

    I have come to the conclusion that they know exactly what those laws are and what they mean. The problem is….they’re just evil….and need to be removed from positions that they do not deserve – and take their media with their with them when the do.

    • voegelinian says

      May 13, 2014 at 5:11 pm

      The problem is not whether various influential Westerners are appalled by these atrocities; the problem is that they persist in refusing to connect the dots that lead from these atrocities to mainstream Islam (and from there, the dots that lead to all Muslims).

    • Beth says

      May 13, 2014 at 5:21 pm

      “Where in the h*ll have they come from? that they see no wrong in such teachings/commands?”

      Seriously – is this what this nation has come to?..that the leaders see no wrong in the following???

      Koran (chapter and verse given for proof)

      047.004 – Beheadings

      033.052 – Gang Rape of female ‘infidels’

      005.033 – Crucifixions

      008.067 – Treason

      033.061 – Genocide “without mercy”

      005.041 – Racism….

      005.041 O Messenger! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: whether it be among those who say “We believe” with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie [[This is Racism – It is hate speech]]

      Shame on you – leaders (of the US) if this is what you support (and you do)

      Shame on you EU (self-appointed) if this is what you support (and you do)

      Shame on you London if this is what you support (and you do)

      If you support rapists, murderers, liars and thieves – then what that is what you are. You don’t have to carry out said deeds. All you have to do – in such a position – is support those monsters. And you could only do so – because you do those deeds yourselves.

      The leaders (who have set themselves) are not my enemies. They’re all strangers – because not even my enemies would support such wickedness.

    • Clare says

      May 13, 2014 at 10:58 pm

      “…the natural law can be blotted out from the human heart, either by evil persuasions,…; or by vicious customs and corrupt habits, as among some men, theft, and even unnatural vices…” St. Thomas Aquinas

  21. Beth says

    May 13, 2014 at 5:42 pm

    voegelinian

    Keep up the good fight. Never stop.

    Call out the liars – and put them on ‘the spot’ – always.

    I hope the Lord that I know – will bless the voice of Robert – in that it is heard – and considered – wisely.

  22. Alarmed Pig Farmer says

    May 13, 2014 at 5:42 pm

    Whatever happens with the world’s fate at the hands of Moslem aggression, I gotta say that I dig this Shekau guy. He’s got pizazz. The man is upbeat and jaunty, yet at the same time serious and foreboding.

    I see a future in rap music for this great innovator.

  23. Beth says

    May 13, 2014 at 6:47 pm

    Robert…I don’t know how important the following is to you…

    But I do know…that it is very important to the Lord….

    and the thugs who also know of it. So, heads up:

    Hebrew Lexicon….

    Pelishtiy: Translation = Philistine

    Pelesheth: Translation = Palestine

    I don’t know how important this info will be to you…

    I hope that it is very important – because it is.

    Just know these facts – ok? I mean….if you want to be ahead of the ‘cutting edge’ – well, this will put you there. But it will cause you to loose friends – a thing that I don’t believe concerns you – not when it comes to the Truth.

    Just know these things -ok? And I hope everyone else will take note also.

  24. Wellington says

    May 13, 2014 at 7:42 pm

    Jinn Entonik: Sorry, but your last post is not really persuasive at all. The vast majority of times that Krauthammer opines he has something very sensible to say. Going back to a dinner ten years ago as described by Fukuyama (who definitely was too optimistic about what the end of the Cold War meant) just doesn’t cut it.

    For what it’s worth, I would advise against sweeping statements. They are rarely correct and very often wrong.

    Krauthammer got Wilders wrong. He has gotten other things wrong too but overwhelmingly he gets things right. If you want to dismiss him as insane and delusional, that is your right but I shall shun such hyperbole, if for no other reason (and there are many) than if Krauthammer and his ilk are insane and delusional, then what descrpitives, pray tell, would you use to describe, let’s see, Hamas, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda and Boko Haram?

  25. Angemon says

    May 13, 2014 at 7:59 pm

    ““There is a great reluctance to excommunicate someone by extension. … It would be like convicting someone in absentia,” said Imam Johari Abdul-Malik, the spokesman for the “Home of the Migrants” mosque, or Dar Al Hijrah mosque, in Falls Church Va.”

    Actually, it isn’t. Conducting a trial in absentia deprives the accused of telling his version of the events, which can prevent him of having a fair trial. For example, if someone says i broke a window then me not being at the trial can prevent me of saying “wait a minute, i can prove that at the date and time the window was broken i was hundreds of miles away”. On the other hand, if i hand over a videotape where i say i broke the window and the reasons that lead me to break the window than my presence at the court is irrelevant. Boko Haram gave islamic texts as justification for their actions (and i’m not just talking about the kidnapping of girls), so we can look into said texts and see if they support BH’s actions. Well, in theory. There’s not a central governing body is islam, there’s no equivalent to the Vatican or the Pope, and, as such, there are several interpretations of the same texts. Tthat’s the best case scenario, the worst case scenario is that there’s no interpretation of any islamic text that goes against BH’s interpretation. That’s the reason why US muslim groups refuse to condemn BH. Falsely declaring someone a kafir makes one a kafir.

    ““Islam is not the problem,” said Ahmed Bedier, a Florida-based Islamic advocate. “We’re tired of people coming on television and asking where does this ideology come from,” Bedier said. “Well, this ideology comes from nowhere,” he insisted….”

    Makes me wonder why all the muslim groups committing atrocities get the idea that islamic texts justify those atrocities out of nowhere. Must be something in the water. Or maybe it’s the CIA and Mossad working together to cause anti-muslim hate. Face it, those islamic ideologies come from islamic preachers, and if muslims can’t police themselves well enough to prevent jihadi groups appearing like mushrooms after rain then maybe it’s time to call for help.

    “At his May 7 event, Abdul-Malik urged Boko Haram to change its view of Islam, even as he declined to challenge its religious claims.”

    So, Malik’s plan of action consists in asking them to change their views without giving them a reason to do so. There’s no way that sounded better in his mind.

    ““Groups like Boko Haram desire to take us back to a medieval … world where kidnapping of women and girls and enslavement and rape are acceptable,” he said.

    “The world has changed … [and] in particular we are saying as modern day Muslims that we now reject all of these acts and that they are contrary to our faith,” he said.”

    Too bad nothing in the quran/hadith states so. It’s also too bad that the time for interpretation of islamic sources ended what, 1000 years ago?

    “However, Abdul-Malik didn’t promise any religious or political action by U.S. Islamic groups. When pressed May 9 by TheDC to cite Islamic texts that contradict Boko Haram’s Islamist arguments, Abdul-Malik quickly ended the phone call….”

    “Yes, what BH is doing is wrong and it goes against the tenets of islam. What, you want to explain how it goes against the tenets of islam? Whoa, i was never asked that before, that’s the part where the good dhimmis usually stop asking questions. Let me think for a bit *hangs up phone* YES!!! TOTAL VICTORY! TAKBIR!!!!”

    “So “it is perfectly legitimate for a Muslim to capture a Christian woman and use her for sex,” Spencer said. “This is something that Mohammad did himself,” according to Islamic traditions, Spencer said.”

    It’s not that “Spencer said”, it’s that “Spencer said what islamic texts and traditions state”.

    “Numerous U.S. Islamic groups contacted by TheDC declined to offer Islamic counter-arguments against Boko Haram. Instead, they merely said its actions are “unjust” and “un-Islamic.””

    “We condemn ___________________________ that took place on ____________________ in the date of _______________ as being un-islamic”. Just fill the blanks (BH’s actions, Nigeria, 2014), deliver it to the dhimmi press and hang up the phone if someone starts asking questions. Problem solved!

    • Angemon says

      May 13, 2014 at 8:03 pm

      Ugh, after posting i noticed i used “than” instead of “then”. Damn SwiftKey corrector needs moar (yes, moar) training…

  26. Clare says

    May 13, 2014 at 11:27 pm

    They won’t because they can’t and so they give this reason to defer:
    “U.S. Islamic leaders won’t try to formally excommunicate the Islamist Boko Haram group unless they can meet with its leadership to debate the religious legitimacy of its actions, a spokesman for a leading mosque told The Daily Caller.”
    It’s a catch 22. How convenient. We can’t make a determination until we meet with you, but you are too dangerous to meet with. The fake rule of ‘debating the religious legitimacy of its actions’ proves that they can’t; jihad is non-negotiable. Robert commented on the ‘spokesperson’ that we all saw on the video; the expectation that they could have a ‘debate’ with these men is a joke. The big whopper is that there are ‘modern’ Mahometans now as opposed to that Islam that keeps the slaves of allah in the dark ages.

  27. MacUalraig says

    May 14, 2014 at 1:21 am

    #BringBackOurBalls

    – Mark Steyn

    Brilliant.

  28. Laura says

    May 14, 2014 at 2:14 am

    Meanwhile, over at the Alex Jones channel, apparently, Boko Haram is run by the CIA and/or Hillary Rodham Clinton

    And his band of followers are all claiming this is without doubt a “false flag” operation.

    • gravenimage says

      May 14, 2014 at 8:11 pm

      Thanks for the information, Laura. I already know the moronic Jones was a 9/11 “Truther”.

      And this is perhaps even more insane—is all of Boko Haram an American plot?

      I suppose all 22,947 acts of Jihad terror all over the world were actually done by the CIA (and maybe Mossad) to “make Islam look bad”. Madness.

  29. Foolster says

    May 14, 2014 at 3:15 am

    Geordie said: “You sound like a fanatical muslim. ”

    Yes trying to please all men sounds just like fanatical Muslim!! (Sarc) What? Are you being serious? Really?

    You sound like a fanatical neo-liberal progressive anti-religious bigot. Exactly the same sort of neo-liberal progressive anti-religious bigot who hinders discussion about Islam because they tend to throw in how Christianity is “just as bad” or “almost as bad”. No and no, they are nothing alike. You are a fool, and a fool who endangers us all.

    • Champ says

      May 14, 2014 at 3:29 am

      No and no, they are nothing alike. You are a fool, and a fool who endangers us all.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Really great point, Foolster …

      And Geordie ought to consider reading one of Robert Spencer’s books and stat:

      “Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is And Islam Isn’t”

      Christianity or Islam: which is the real “religion of peace”?
      Almost any liberal pundit will tell you that there’s a religion bent on destroying our Constitution, stripping us of our liberties, and imposing religious rule on the U.S. And that religion is . . .Christianity! About Islam, however, the Left is silent–except to claim a moral equivalence between the two: if Islam has terrorists today, that’s nothing compared to the Crusades, inquisitions, and religious wars in Christianity’s past.

      But is this true? Are conservative Christians really more of a threat to free societies than Islamic jihadists? Is the Bible really “just as violent” as the Qur’an? Is Christianity’s history really as bloodstained as Islam’s? In Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn’t, New York Times bestselling author Robert Spencer not only refutes such charges, but also explains why Americans and Europeans must regain an appreciation of our Christian heritage if we ever hope to defeat Islamic supremacism. In this eye opening work, Spencer reveals:

      * The fundamental differences between Islamic and Christian teachings about warfare against other religions: “Love your enemies” vs. “Be ruthless to the unbelievers”

      * The myth of Western immorality and Islamic puritanism and why the Islamic world is less moral than the West

      * Why the Islamic world has never developed the distinction between religious and secular law that is inherent in Christianity

      * Why Christianity has always embraced reason–and Islam has always rejected it

      * Why the most determined enemies of Western civilization may not be the jihadists at all, but the leftists who fear their churchgoing neighbors more than Islamic terrorists

      * Why Jews, Christians, and peoples of other faiths (or no faith) are equally at risk from militant Islam

      Spencer writes not to proselytize, but to state a fact: Christianity is a true “religion of peace,” and on it Western civilization stands. If we are not to perish under Islam’s religion of the sword–with its more than 100 million active jihadists seeking to impose sharia law–we had better defend our own civilization.

      http://www.amazon.com/Religion-Peace-Christianity-Islam-Isnt/dp/1596985151

      • Geordie says

        May 14, 2014 at 5:31 am

        Champ. When people stop preaching their own brand of religion, I’ll stop telling them they sound like fanatical muslims, who only see the world trough the blinkers of dogma.

        When non-muslims religionists start bombing each other and waging holy war, then and only then will I accuse them of behaving like barbaric blood thirsty muslims. That said, if you have a guilty conscience about your own motivations. Please continue seeing accusations where none exist. It infers much more about you than I did.

    • Geordie says

      May 14, 2014 at 5:18 am

      So you really don’t see that people quoting mumbo jumbo from magic books, sounds like muslims justifying the spilling of blood by reciting quotes from their magic book and invoking their sky god friend.

      Perhaps you should try seeing it from the point of view of an atheist, who thinks all religions are stupid. Unless of course you are a closed minded bigot.

      Note, you said. “Christianity is “just as bad” or “almost as bad”. No and no, they are nothing alike.”
      I didn’t say that. What’s wrong, are you paranoid?

      • Foolster says

        May 14, 2014 at 6:16 am

        Geordie:
        par·a·noi·a
        Noun
        “2.suspicion and mistrust of people or their actions without evidence or justification.”

        • duh_swami says

          May 14, 2014 at 8:52 am

          Not always…Drug dealers for instane have good reason to be hyper paranoid…Paranoid psychosis is a different5 matter, and is closer to what you posted.

    • thomas_h says

      May 14, 2014 at 9:43 am

      @foolster

      ”You are a fool, and a fool who endangers us all.”

      He is a ranting fool, of course. A conceited ignoramus and, as flakmusic elegantly declared a few threads ago, “an intellectual amoeba and obnoxious punk”. But “endangering us all”?
      In what way?

      • Geordie says

        May 14, 2014 at 11:00 am

        thomas_h The stinking hypocritical sack of shit has raised it’s delusional head out of the sewer again! No bible babble quote this time but still with the petty prepubescent, Sunday club insults.

        Did I ruffle you that much?
        One good turn deserves another. Get over it bitch.

        • thomas_h says

          May 14, 2014 at 1:30 pm

          Ladies and Gentlemen,

          I claim that “geordie” is an intellectual amoeba, obnoxious punk and a walking-talking latrine.

          I am submitting my proof below:

          “thomas_h The stinking hypocritical sack of shit has raised it’s delusional head out of the sewer again! No bible babble quote this time but still with the petty prepubescent, Sunday club insults.
          Did I ruffle you that much? One good turn deserves another. Get over it bitch.”

          Quod Erat Demonstrandum

        • gravenimage says

          May 14, 2014 at 8:18 pm

          Geordie wrote:

          thomas_h The stinking hypocritical sack of shit has raised it’s (sic) delusional head out of the sewer again!
          ………………….

          Thomas H is a respected poster here, Geordie—I’m not sure I can say the same for yourself—especially if you continue to treat differences of opinion with invective, slurs, and profanity.

        • Geordie says

          May 15, 2014 at 5:11 am

          graven wrote: Thomas H is a respected poster here, … treat differences of opinion with invective, slurs, and profanity.”

          I reserve the right to retaliate in kind, when subjected to invective slurs and profanity. Regardless if the original insults are simply an attempt to distract readers from the untenable position of Thomas_h, Boaz and others. As I have already said. One good turn deserves another. If they attack me with amusing childish insults, they can expect the same in return, with a dash of sarcastic piss taking.

          Freedom of speech not only covers irrelevant inane preaching but also criticism of it, as inappropriate for this forum. Which incidentally, was all I objected to before responding to all the insults.

      • Foolster says

        May 14, 2014 at 8:53 pm

        The rhetoric of his ilk that lumps all religions, or at least Chrisitanity with Islam muddle the message of the dangers of Islam, and makes any sort of movement to educate on Islam that much more difficult. His is the same crowd that when the dangers of Islam is pointed out they cry about the crusades, Hitler and the Inquisition, it is the kind of far-leftist progressive poison that has endangered England and much of Europe.

        • thomas_h says

          May 15, 2014 at 9:53 am

          @Foolster,
          I gather this is a reply to my asking in what way is “geordie” endangering us all.
          I see your point now neatly summarized with: “muddle the message of the dangers of Islam, and makes any sort of movement to educate on Islam that much more difficult.”
          Very true, Foolster. It should have been apparent to me. To my defence I will say that as I think of “geordie” as nothing more than pathetic, occasionally annoying, fool so it didn’t occur to me to consider how detrimental to our cause is his using the site for dissemination of his wacky Christianophobia.

  30. Foolster says

    May 14, 2014 at 6:12 am

    “Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatsoever else you do, do all to the glory of God. Be without offence to the Jews, and to the Gentiles, and to the church of God: As I also in all things please all men, not seeking that which is profitable to myself, but to many, that may be saved.”
    Corinthians 10:31-33

    Perhaps you can explain how this “sounds like muslims justifying the spilling of blood by reciting quotes from their magic book and invoking their sky god friend.” Of course it doesn’t. As I said, Christianity and Islam are nothing alike. You havn’t shown at all how they are.

    “Perhaps you should try seeing it from the point of view of an atheist, who thinks all religions are stupid. Unless of course you are a closed minded bigot.”
    Ah, I object to you comparing a peaceful quote from scripture to radical violent muslims, but [b]I[/b] might be the bigot! Also, Hypocracy fail since you don’t seem to bother to see it form the point of view of a Christian who might not appreciate being compared to radical Muslims!

    “Note, you said. “Christianity is “just as bad” or “almost as bad”. No and no, they are nothing alike.”
    I didn’t say that. What’s wrong, are you paranoid?”
    Notice the full context. I said you sound like the types who would say such a thing.

    “Champ. When people stop preaching their own brand of religion, I’ll stop telling them they sound like fanatical muslims, who only see the world trough the blinkers of dogma.

    When non-muslims religionists start bombing each other and waging holy war, then and only then will I accuse them of behaving like barbaric blood thirsty muslims. That said, if you have a guilty conscience about your own motivations. Please continue seeing accusations where none exist. It infers much more about you than I did.”
    Your first statement contradicts the second. You said as long as there are people who believe in things you don’t (my, that sounds tolerant!) you will compare them to muslims, but then you says that you will only compare them to muslims if they start bombing each other? Which is it?

    • Foolster says

      May 14, 2014 at 6:17 am

      (Above is a reply to Geordie)

    • Geordie says

      May 14, 2014 at 8:21 am

      Foolster: “Your first statement contradicts the second. You said as long as there are people who believe in things you don’t (my, that sounds tolerant!) you will compare them to muslims, but then you says that you will only compare them to muslims if they start bombing each other? Which is it?”

      Come off it, fool. You know the difference between sounding like a preaching muslim, endlessly pulling quotes from some magic book or other and behaving like a terrorist. If you don’t …. perhaps that explains things.

      • duh_swami says

        May 14, 2014 at 8:58 am

        Some religious scripture quoting is sometimes appropriate, but too much of it becomes preaching. I may or, may not agree with the preacher, but I don’t come to JW to be preached to. There is a church down the road I can go to for that. Fortunately most JW religious people don’t cross the imaginary line in the sand.

        • Geordie says

          May 14, 2014 at 9:30 am

          duh_swami wrote: “Some religious scripture quoting is sometimes appropriate, but too much of it becomes preaching. I may or, may not agree with the preacher, but I don’t come to JW to be preached to. There is a church down the road I can go to for that. Fortunately most JW religious people don’t cross the imaginary line in the sand.”

          My point exactly. Most religionists on JW manage quite well without constant preaching. So, to those who insist on subjecting everyone to jibber jabber. Enough is enough. It is tedious and not necessary, take it to Sunday club.

  31. Foolster says

    May 14, 2014 at 2:22 pm

    Gerodie: I realized I missed that you used the terms “behaved like” and “sound like” in each paragraph. Point taken, however. saying the quoted scripture above even sounds like radical Muslims is ridiculous equilibrium between Islam and Chritianity which are nothing alike in Chracter.

    “My point exactly. Most religionists on JW manage quite well without constant preaching.”

    No. If this was your point, I would have no problem. The problem is, when someone quoted scripture about pleasing all people you said they sound like murderous terrorists.

    • Geordie says

      May 15, 2014 at 4:25 am

      Foolster wrote: ““My point exactly. Most religionists on JW manage quite well without constant preaching.”

      And: “No. If this was your point, I would have no problem. The problem is, when someone quoted scripture about pleasing all people you said they sound like murderous terrorists.”
      ============================

      It was my point and still is. The content of the quote is quite irrelevant. The very fact it is a quote from a magic book means it is preaching. Same as the muslims, again, regardless of content.

      I’m not going to get into a discussion over which magic book trumps the other. I simply find all such quotations to be offensive and uncalled for in this forum.

      The mentality of those people is there to be seen in their personal insulting comments! I reserve the right to respond accordingly in self defence.

      • Foolster says

        May 15, 2014 at 3:48 pm

        Of course Geordie is not being entirely honest. This was not his point at all. he didn’t simply say “stop preaching” but compared a quoted peaceful verse from the bible to “radical Muslims”. The content is relevant, because that is exactly what *he* made an issue of in the first place. This issue too is one he hasn’t been able to back with facts (how does that verse make the quoter sound like a Muslim? Is “pleasing all men” a bad thing?)

        big·ot·ry
        ˈbigətrē/Submit
        noun
        noun: bigotry; plural noun: bigotries
        bigoted attitudes; intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

  32. Foolster says

    May 14, 2014 at 2:24 pm

    “Not always…Drug dealers for instane have good reason to be hyper paranoid…Paranoid psychosis is a different5 matter, and is closer to what you posted.”

    Are you saying what I posted is paranoid? In what way? Do you think it’s “paranoid” to object when someone unjustly compares your beliefs to sounding like radical muslims? (i.e. terrorism), especially when that belief is to “please all men”?

    • Foolster says

      May 14, 2014 at 8:54 pm

      (Above is to Duh_Swami)

  33. Champ says

    May 14, 2014 at 2:33 pm

    Geordie is intent on dictating and micromanaging what others write around here; especially what Christians write, hmm …

    So lets leave the micromanaging to mohammedans who HATE freedom of speech. Those claiming to be freedom fighters should not be guilty of such charges and need to focus on the real enemy: islam and company.

    Remember, Christianity is the true religion of peace …

    And Jihad Watch would benefit greatly if people like Geordie read Robert’s book:

    “Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is And Islam Isn’t”

    Time he educated himself and stat.

    • Champ says

      May 14, 2014 at 2:36 pm

      And Georgie serves as exhibit A as to why the moral equivalency narrative, between islam and Christianity, is so false.

    • thomas_h says

      May 14, 2014 at 6:23 pm

      “And Jihad Watch would benefit greatly if people like Geordie read Robert’s book”

      With all respect, Champ, in what way would Jihad Watch benefit from “geordie” doing that, or doing anything at all?

      “Time he educated himself…”

      His ignorance is not caused by not having an access to “right books”, but grotesquely inflated ego, ludicrous smugness and infantile narcissism. This together with his puny reasoning powers makes him perfectly unteachable.

      • Champ says

        May 14, 2014 at 6:58 pm

        You’re quite right, Thomas_h! …I humbly stand corrected 🙂

      • Geordie says

        May 15, 2014 at 4:50 am

        Oh dear, more insults. Is that the best you can do?
        No attempts to justify all your preaching, just childish personal attacks. Water off a ducks back.
        Keep going, you are already in the gutter. Lets see how low you can go.

    • Geordie says

      May 15, 2014 at 4:28 am

      The mentality of the religionists is there to be seen in their personal insulting comments! I reserve the right to respond accordingly in self defence.

  34. gravenimage says

    May 14, 2014 at 4:27 pm

    US Muslim groups won’t move to excommunicate Boko Haram
    ………………………………

    Of course they won’t—and how could they? Boko Haram’s appalling atrocities are perfectly islamic.

    More:

    Notice that the Daily Caller’s Neil Munro repeatedly asks Muslim leaders in the U.S. to offer Islamic counter-arguments to Boko Haram’s claims for Islamic justification for its actions, and they refuse to do so. This is, as I am quoted as saying in this piece, because they can’t.
    ………………………………

    Bravo to Neil Monro and the Daily Caller for even pursuing this story—this is something most Westerners don’t even consider.

    Kudos, as well, for his not just raising the issue, but not letting the slippery “Muslim leaders” just change the subject, as they so often do.

    More:

    U.S. Islamic leaders won’t try to formally excommunicate the Islamist Boko Haram group unless they can meet with its leadership to debate the religious legitimacy of its actions, a spokesman for a leading mosque told The Daily Caller.

    “There is a great reluctance to excommunicate someone by extension. … It would be like convicting someone in absentia,” said Imam Johari Abdul-Malik…
    ………………………………

    What *absolute crap*. Through the Islamic doctrine of “Takfir”, pious Muslims declare other Muslims “apostates” or “Infidels” all the time. But this is when said Muslims are considered “insufficiently Islamic”, and Imam Abdul-Malik knows that Boko Haram is anything but.

    It’s not as though Boko Haram is some obscure bunch of Jihadists. Their crimes are well known—at this point, even to many Western Infidels—and any Imam could tell you whether their actions are Islamic or not.

    But this obfuscation, of course, is to snow the credulous Kuffar.

    And aside, but a salient one—this cleric is Imam at the “Home of the Migrants” mosque, or Dar Al Hijrah Mosque, in Falls Church, Virginia. The “Hijira” was when the “Prophet” Muhammed decamped to Medina. Within a short period, he was running the place; exiling Jewish tribes, executing apostates and “traitors”, and pressing the populace into fighting his wars and living off their labor.

    This is *exactly* what they have in store for the West, as well—they look at immigration into places like the US not as immigration, but as “Hijira”. Few Infidels recognize the significance of such a name, though.

    More:

    If crimes have been committed, the Nigerian government should punish the individuals, he added.
    ………………………………

    “If”? This Imam will not come out and say that burning churches, bombing bus stops, and abducting and raping school girls then selling them as sex slaves is wrong.

    It is also deflection, because it shifts the focus from the crimes of Boko Haram, and onto whether or not the hapless and comprised Nigerian government is capable of taking Boko Haram to task or not.

    More:

    On May 7, Abdul Malik led a group of Muslim advocates at a press conference at the National Press Club, where they denied that Islamic strictures are shaping Boko Haram’s years-long campaign of killing and kidnapping Christians.

    “Islam is not the problem,” said Ahmed Bedier, a Florida-based Islamic advocate. “We’re tired of people coming on television and asking where does this ideology come from,” Bedier said. “Well, this ideology comes from nowhere,” he insisted….
    ………………………………

    What bald-faced Taqiyya. Everything Boko Haram has done comes straight out of the texts of Islam and the model of the baleful “Prophet”.

    And notice—they are not offended by Boko Haram, but by Infidels who won’t stop asking where this ideology comes from. Bad Infidels…

    Here’s s more on the meretricious Ahmed Bedier:

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/joe-kaufman/ahmed-bediers-al-qaeda-family-stain-removal/

    More:

    At his May 7 event, Abdul-Malik urged Boko Haram to change its view of Islam, even as he declined to challenge its religious claims. “Groups like Boko Haram desire to take us back to a medieval … world where kidnapping of women and girls and enslavement and rape are acceptable,” he said.

    “The world has changed … [and] in particular we are saying as modern day Muslims that we now reject all of these acts and that they are contrary to our faith,” he said.
    ………………………………

    Really? On what basis? More lies. Notice that he never actually says that abduction and rape are against Islam as presented in the Qur’an and the model of the “Prophet”.

    More

    However, Abdul-Malik didn’t promise any religious or political action by U.S. Islamic groups. When pressed May 9 by TheDC to cite Islamic texts that contradict Boko Haram’s Islamist arguments, Abdul-Malik quickly ended the phone call….
    ………………………………

    Of course he did—because there *aren’t any*.

    More:

    “We wish to reiterate that our [jihad] is not for personal gain; it is meant to ensure the establishment of an Islamic state by liberating all Muslims from the excesses of the infidels…”
    ………………………………

    If Muslims are not “free” to kidnap, rape, enslave, and slaughter Infidels, then they are “oppressed” by them. We would do will to remember this…

    More:

    the group’s spokesman, Abu Qaqa, said in 2012, according to study of the group. “We don’t kill innocent Muslims. The fact is the bottom line of our struggle is to set the Muslims free from enslavement. We only kill the unbelievers,” he said.
    ………………………………

    Note the reference to their not killing “innocent” Muslims. Any Muslim who works against them or for the Nigerian government is not regarded as “innocent”, and may be murdered with impunity, since he is regarded as a virtual “apostate”.

    More:
    More:

    TheDC asked Abdul-Malik if Americans Muslim groups would pronounce “takfir” on Boko Haram.
    ………………………………

    Of course, Boko Haram itself has no problem pronouncing Takfir. But then, it’s actions are completely Halal. Abdul-Malik will not tell you this, though….

    • thomas_h says

      May 15, 2014 at 11:41 am

      Thank you Graven for putting a good word in my defence.

      Be assured that despite Geordie’s hypocritical whimpering and waving his phony “victim card” it was he/her who totally unprovoked barged into my exchange with other person with the idiotically pompous and increasingly incongruous:

      ”As an atheist, I see your obvious dislike of Ayaan Hirsi Ali as the product of your own delusional religious mind-set and nothing at all to do with rational reasoning. Similarly your grasp of the complex real-world political landscape, owes much to your American two party state. Combined with an overly simplistic linear …blah…blah…blah”

      The presumptuous twit didn’t engage my arguments, but couldn’t wait to deliver his absurd and unsolicited “diagnosis” about the state of my mind. How did he decide my mind is religious, or that I am an American is a mystery. Neither he see that parroting tarnished bromides about “complex real-world political landscape…blah…blah..” will only expose his comical phoniness making impression only on a very naïve.

      Anyway, I shrugged my shoulders thinking “conceited idiot” and forgot all about it. I never occurred to me to answer.

      Next time Geordie decided he has something to say to me was again when by interrupting my exchange with a third person delivered the following mad rant:

      ”Your ignorance and bigotry know no bounds. I would not be surprised if you are a racist, homophobic anti-Semite too! Someone who would see everyone with different beliefs gassed.”
      (Strangely, he never considered the possibility I may be a global warming denier).

      THAT was his reaction to my matter of fact, calm remarking that Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were not Christian, Confucian or Buddhist and that this pack of socialist/communist vampires have murdered well over 100 million people. Nothing more.

      That paroxysm of rage and stream of hateful absurdities made me finally respond. Still I’ve never used the language comparable to geordie’s vulgar gross outpours. That geordie now accuses me of attacking him/her is a blatant and brazen lie worthy of a cornered moslem. Whatever I said to, or about, him/her was always initiated by Geordie.

      Well, Graven. If you, or anyone here, would like to check the veracity of my account I present below: the links to what expire between me and Geordie.

      http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/ayaan-hirsi-ali-they-simply-wanted-me-to-be-silenced

      http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/reza-aslan-the-idea-of-resurrection-absolutely-has-no-basis-in-five-thousand-years-of-jewish-history-scripture-or-thought

      I also think it is quite amusing to see the very short exchange between “flakmusic” and “Geordie” where Geordie has his posterior presented to him in a most entertaining way and where “flakmusic” observes astutely that Geordie is an “intellectual amoeba” and “obnoxious punk” and obtuse enough to think that the latter may conceal the former.

      Here goes: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/hades-is-angered-it-is-angered

      • Champ ✿ says

        May 15, 2014 at 5:26 pm

        Thomas_h …

        Geordie is not here for honest debate, but to disrupt each and every thread he’s on.

        Check-out this thread–where Geordie is engaging in lunatic dialogue with several other posters:

        http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/05/uk-muslim-leader-muslims-should-humiliate-christians-so-theyll-convert-to-islam/comment-page-1#comment-1059755

        Here’s one lunatic comment, left by Geordie, that clearly demonstrates his dishonesty:

        “Geordie
        May 12, 2014 at 8:56 am
        Enough of your preaching before I puke. Keep this up and you’ll be flying planes into buildings before you know it.”

        Everyone knows (or they should know) that Christians are truly peaceful, but not Geordie! This guy thinks that Christians are just as dangerous. This nonsense makes Geordie dangerous!

        And Geordie also posts as George, and I mistook him for my old friend George from Colorado; but this guy is not the same George, so I accidentally said Hello to the *wrong* George.

        Anyway, check-out that other thread and you will see that you aren’t the only one that he’s attacking like a nasty pit-bull.

        • thomas_h says

          May 15, 2014 at 5:48 pm

          Champ,
          I followed the link you sent. Good grief, I have no doubt now that the man is mentally unbalanced. His pride and the nagging suspicion of his own mediocrity breeds his impotent rage.
          But he is not so much a “nasty pit-bull” as you say, rather he is a raging fly. Quite easy to swat.

  35. Geordie says

    May 15, 2014 at 5:41 am

    Ladies and gentlemen of this forum.

    It seems that Thomas_h and his followers have taken a dislike to my criticism of their continual preaching and quoting from the bible. The fact that I find such thing repulsive is lost on them. They have resorted to name calling and clogging up the forum with ad hominem attacks and childish insults.

    As amusing as this can be, it detracts from the aims of the forum, which I always assumed to be highlighting the jihad committed by muslims and ways to combat it.

    It is now quite clear that these christian religionists have no wish to co-operate with non-christians who share the same enemy. I leave it to you, the members of this forum to pass judgement.

    • Foolster says

      May 15, 2014 at 4:02 pm

      Yes, Geordie insults specific Christians and Christianity in general by saying a peaceful verse sounds like a radical muslim (i.e. terrorist), pulling this off-topic, and then complains about how he’s being attacked and how others are pulling the topic off-topic when those Christian forcefully object! What a *hypocrite*.

      “It is now quite clear that these christian religionists have no wish to co-operate with non-christians who share the same enemy. I leave it to you, the members of this forum to pass judgement.”

      Of course Geordie has already passed judgement on Christians, and he claims that because they object to his insults (comparing them to radical muslims) that must mean they don’t want to co-coperate with non-Christians! Of course, what he revealed is the opposite, that *he* doesn’t want to co-operate with Christians against a common enemy, since he is the one who first insulted Christians and not the other way around.

      How sad, Geordie stirred a hornet’s nest and got stung.

      • Champ says

        May 15, 2014 at 4:46 pm

        Of course, what he revealed is the opposite, that *he* doesn’t want to co-operate with Christians against a common enemy, since he is the one who first insulted Christians and not the other way around.

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        Yes, that’s precisely what I’ve observed from Geordie, Foolster. He’s playing the narcissistic blame game and attempts to shift the blame onto others–but we ain’t buyin’!

        • voegelinian says

          May 24, 2014 at 2:48 pm

          Yes Champ, that’s the crux of the whole Geordie Problem (and there have been other commenters over the years who have this problem).

          The unilateral nature of the problem may be clarified by considering: If a secularist commenter posted a comment that in one way or another preached the values of their non-religious worldview, would we ever see any JW Christian bristle and get all prickly and offended and upset enough to lash back like Geordie does? No of course not. But numerous times we have seen the reverse happen, causing flurries of distracting and hostile nonsense in JW comments fields.

          Speaking for myself, a person who values modern secularism, when I see JW Christian commenters occasionally posting long comments which may be seen as “preaching” I don’t have this curious reflex reaction of spastic hostility that Geordie and his ilk have resembling a vampire confronting a crucifix. If I don’t want to read it, I scroll on by; and frankly I appreciate it for its demonstrable good will and peaceable and loving nature — CONTRASTED with Islam. That Geordie sees Christian love as the same as Mohammedan hate demonstrates, ipso facto, that he doesn’t merely have a screw loose — we would be hard put to find any screws in his head fastened where they should be.

        • Champ says

          May 24, 2014 at 3:24 pm

          Hi Voegelinian …great observations! Yes, his position is completely nonsensical and seems driven more by hate–for Christians–than reason and honest debate. And I haven’t seen “geordie” aka “george” since this exchange.

      • thomas_h says

        May 15, 2014 at 5:22 pm

        “How sad, Geordie stirred a hornet’s nest and got stung.”

        Not sad at all. In fact quite droll and well deserved.

        How silly of geordie to expect something else. Geordie fancies himself the Star Of The Forum and his delusion makes him unable to consider the possibility that for the majority here he may be just a noisy, tactless and conceited fool. His latest pathetic appeal to the “Ladies and Gentlemen of the Forum” with eggs still dripping from his face is a testimony to his infantile narcissism.

        • Champ ッ says

          May 15, 2014 at 6:09 pm

          …and Geordie asked for our input:

          “I leave it to you, the members of this forum to pass judgement.”

          Hey I bet he’s waiting for someone to come along and defend his inane comments. Yeah he’s in for a veeeery long wait, lol!

        • Foolster says

          May 16, 2014 at 2:25 am

          Well, I was being sarcastic about the sad part. Though sad as in pathetic though would be appropriate.

    • Mirren10 says

      May 15, 2014 at 6:40 pm

      ”I leave it to you, the members of this forum to pass judgement”

      OK. My judgement is it was you who started all this. Your aggressive atheism is far more repulsive than a few quotes from the Bible.

      Your first aggressive comment to Salah:

      ”Salah wrote: ” Blah blah … do all to the glory of God. Blah blah …”

      You sound like a fanatical muslim.”

      You didn’t have the honesty to copy the whole of the quote:

      “Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatsoever else you do, do all to the glory of God. Be without offence to the Jews, and to the Gentiles, and to the church of God: As I also in all things please all men, not seeking that which is profitable to myself, but to many, that may be saved.”
      Corinthians 10:31-33”

      Doesn’t sound **at all** like something a fanatical muslim would say !

      Next, you said, again in reply to Salah:

      ”Salah wrote: “Fanatical Muslims don’t write “Blah blah…” on the net, they write it with blood, our blood.”

      Then they justify the spilling of blood by reciting quotes from their magic book and invoking their sky god friend. That’s why you sound like them! It’s a slippery slope.”

      mohammedans certainly justify their atrocities by quoting from the koran, and shrieking ‘allahu akbar’, but I have yet to hear Christians do so, since of course they don’t actually commit any atrocities whilst quoting from the Bible and invoking God or Christ. So your comment is untrue, as well as spiteful and silly.

      In reply to PJG, who said ”stop it Geordie”, you said:

      ”As tempting as that sounds, I didn’t start it.”

      I think I’ve just shown you did.

      I could go through all the rest of your aggressively vituperative and sneering remarks, but I can’t be bothered.

      If you are going to attack Christian commenters in this way, you can hardly be astonished and hurt that they reply in kind.

      I am agnostic, but I feel no need to attack the faith of others, when it is not hurting me. If you don’t like reading quotes from the Bible, scroll past those comments; it’s quite easy to do .

      I’ve never understood why some atheists, like you, treat their unbelief exactly like fanatical mohammedans do; as a faith ! ( this is what you are accusing the Christians on this forum of doing), and froth at the mouth when confronted with those who *do* have faith in Christianity. Why are you so angry with them for believing in God and Christ ? They don’t attack your atheism, unless you attack them first.

      By the way, any comment on religious mohammedans refusing to condemn Boko Haram ?

      Do you think Christians would refuse to condemn a group who called themselves ” Atheists Bad”, and kidnapped atheist girls for sex slaves ?

      • Salah says

        May 16, 2014 at 12:33 am

        Well said, Mirren 10. Thank you.

      • thomas_h says

        May 16, 2014 at 6:41 am

        A smart comment, Mirren10.

      • voegelinian says

        May 24, 2014 at 2:53 pm

        “Why are you so angry with them for believing in God and Christ ? They don’t attack your atheism, unless you attack them first.”

        I’ve seen this behavior in many atheists over the years, not just Geordie. What Geordie is manifesting here is a pathology similar to what we see in Mohammedans: the mere existence and free expression of Christianity by itself constitutes an affront and attack on Geordie; and so given that psycho-logic that controls him, he has no choice but to attack back.

        Thus, when we see Geordie slandering Christians for being the same as Muslims, we see that he is, in fact, projecting: it is he who bears a disquieting resemblance to the Mohammedan.

        • Mirren10 says

          May 24, 2014 at 3:20 pm

          Excellent points, voegelinian.

          Hope you are well !

        • Champ says

          May 24, 2014 at 3:28 pm

          Great comment, Voegelinian! 🙂

          “Thus, when we see Geordie slandering Christians for being the same as Muslims, we see that he is, in fact, projecting: it is he who bears a disquieting resemblance to the Mohammedan.”

          Preciiiisely!

    • bettina says

      May 24, 2014 at 4:27 pm

      Well, Geordie, as a Jew, I’ve felt very comforted here by these Christians’ affection and admiration for Israel. Whereas I was raised in Morocco where French (Catholic) anti-Semitism was an open fact of life, here, I’m being befriended by Christian fundamentalists and I LOVE IT!
      (I’m not bashing Catholics here; don’t get me wrong.)

      I still retain some of my liberal views, but about the curse of islam and muzzies in general, we’re all on the same page. No need to attack Christians for their beliefs or their occasional proselytizing. These things don’t matter in the here and now. Israelis view them as most loyal friends, amid the political quagmire that Mobama and his American Leftists would drown us in.

  36. fla says

    May 15, 2014 at 11:52 am

    I always knew you are a fool.
    Does it make me a follower of thomas_h?

    • thomas_h says

      May 16, 2014 at 6:36 am

      “I always knew you are a fool. Does it make me a follower of thomas_h?”

      LOL.

      Only someone as stupid and stuck-up as geordie couldn’t see in advance that ranting about “thomas_h followers” would inevitably invite such sneer.
      All trolls vex and irritate. Some do it with considerable intelligence and wit and sometimes could be entertaining. Some are just dumb, vulgar and boring. Poor georgie can’t accept he is in the latter category.

      Oh well, enough about that dunce…

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