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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Doug Saunders of The Globe and Mail: all the journalistic integrity of Josef Goebbels

Jun 9, 2014 3:29 pm By Robert Spencer

I am used to mainstream media reporters being dishonest, but it still never ceases to amaze me how little regard they have for truth or accuracy, and how eagerly they carry water for global terrorism and libel those whom they hate, knowing that their targets almost certainly do not have the time or resources to bring them to court. In this case, Doug Saunders and I had an acrimonious Twitter exchange several weeks ago, in which he made this same claim and I challenged him to quote me actually endorsing Putin’s approach toward Muslim minorities. He did not do so, because he couldn’t: watch the whole show to which he refers (video above), and you will see that never once do I discuss Putin’s approach to Muslim minorities, or anything close to it. But that didn’t stop Saunders from repeating this outright falsehood in Saturday’s Globe and Mail — in a story appropriately datelined Berlin:

“Vladimir Putin’s fifth column in the West,” by Doug Saunders, The Globe and Mail, June 7, 2014:

American anti-Muslim activist Robert Spencer made a point of appearing on the Russia Today network (shortly after most of its American staff had quit and denounced it as a Kremlin propaganda outlet) to attack the United States and endorse Mr. Putin’s approach toward Muslim minorities. “Barack Obama is somebody who has been embarrassed on the world stage by Vladimir Putin more than once,” Mr. Spencer said.

Note also another appearance of the “anti-Muslim” smear. Would Saunders have called opponents of the Nazis “anti-German”? (Probably.)

I have sent Saunders a note on Twitter requesting a public retraction. But I won’t be holding my breath. When you’re brazen enough to print the Big Lie, why retract it?

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Comments

  1. Champ says

    Jun 9, 2014 at 3:44 pm

    People like Doug Saunders make me sooo mad, since they make things more *dangerous* for the rest of us.

    Robert Spencer, thank you for being a truth warrior!

    …the same cannot be stated about Doug.

    • umbra says

      Jun 9, 2014 at 4:06 pm

      … a hack …
      … that ignores facts …
      … produces stories full of cracks …

      These hacks are a dime a dozen these days.

  2. RaymondofCanada says

    Jun 9, 2014 at 4:44 pm

    I know very little about Doug and not a whole lot about the Globe and Mail lately, but when Robert Spencer speaks, I’m with Robert.

  3. RCCA says

    Jun 9, 2014 at 4:54 pm

    It’s easy to oppose jihad and clearly most Muslims do not feel obligated to engage in violent acts. But what of the Muslims who choose to practice other traditions? Is opposition to their choice to violate US law and as a community engage in polygamy for instance, anti Islam or anti Muslim or both?

    Some Muslims in U.S. Quietly Engage in Polygamy
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90857818
    Philly’s Black Muslims Increasingly Turn to Polygamy
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90886407

  4. IQ al Rassooli says

    Jun 9, 2014 at 5:15 pm

    Dear Mr Spencer

    I was really shocked at the total stupidity of this Russian interviewer

    I cannot grace her by calling her ignorant since she had not read Muhammad’s Quran to make any informed judgement

    She is also most definitely very biased (understandably) against the USA & Israel although as a reporter she should set her personal feelings aside and commit herself to the FACTS

    Most people who go against you had NOT read Quran (let alone Hadiths also) but are nonetheless opinionated

    I admire your patience and resilience when confronted with such utterly insufferable people

    She refused to accept that Islam is the SOURCE of Islam’s misery, hate and anger and has absolutely nothing to do with US or Western imperialism

    Islam & Muslims HATE all those who are Infidels/Kuffar because Allah instructs them to do so. They hate us because we EXIST & not because we are subjugating them

    This very simple fact is beyond the comprehension of generally well meaning but Quran ignoramus people

    I am so glad you stood your ground and told her off whenever needed

    Respectfully

    IQ al Rassooli
    Kafir &Proud!

    • JIMJFOX says

      Jun 10, 2014 at 6:54 am

      IQ, your assessment is correct but she, after all has to follow a pre-arranged script which may or may not reflect her opinions. Also, confrontation and even goading is de rigeur in news articles these days. Russian baiting of American policy is to be expected.

      I felt she spoke excellent English and I noticed her nodding in agreement in places.
      No, she is NOT any sort of authority on Islam like yourself or Robert but can she be expected to have the depth of knowledge of you two? No, of course not.

      I have studied the subject for 3 years and still don’t have the ability to recall the relevant verses to support my arguments with so many leftist dhimmis I meet.

  5. Tradewinds says

    Jun 9, 2014 at 5:54 pm

    I’d be interested in seeing the tweets.

    After reading his article seems like Saunders of his Canadian newspaper needs a reality check. I think he’s also jealous of Geert’s hair!

    • IQ al Rassooli says

      Jun 10, 2014 at 7:19 am

      Thank you Jim for commenting

      I have a serious issue with TV hosts who are addressing a serious subject without having studied even superficially

      After all one needs only TWO brain cells of logic to realise after reading Muhammad’s Quran that it is: Hate mongering Warmongering Misogynist Intolerant Racist Duplicitous Disloyal Vile and hence utterly Ungodly

      Maybe someone who disagrees with me will put their thoughts with back ups!

      IQ al Rassooli
      Kafir & Proud!

      • JIMJFOX says

        Jun 10, 2014 at 9:24 am

        Yes, I admit any interviewer should have at least a cursory knowledge of the subject; she is obviously in the ‘quite ignorant’ category, or worse, a denialist.
        A [former] friend whose opinion I used to respect accused me of extremism and intolerance for reading the Daily Mail, and when I questioned his statement that–

        “Boko Haram is as Islamic as the captured girls are Christians” —
        a truly staggering piece of sophistry.

        We have a very long battle ahead. Our hope is that the eyes and minds of such people are forcibly opened by ever-increasing Islamic terror…
        often I wonder what Cameron’s (or Obama’s) opinions would be if their families were its victims.

  6. PJG says

    Jun 9, 2014 at 8:33 pm

    Robert’s patience with that woman as he answered her crazy questions was remarkable. I have similar arguments with people – without being as learned or patient as Robert, unfortunately – and get nowhere. It doesn’t matter how many facts and how much evidence one gives to people, one gets attacked for bigotry or being “ill-informed”, or one’s opponent tells smugly of his “lovely Muslim friends” whose loveliness apparently negates all the jihad terror throughout the world, throughout history, and throughout the Islamic texts.

    • RHW says

      Jun 9, 2014 at 10:09 pm

      @PJG

      Re the “lovely little muslim friends” argument – my own children throw this one at me. The monumental lack of the ability to reason just leaves me speechless. Is it such a higher order function to be able to distinguish between the visible attributes of one of a sample, and the observed attributes of a population?

      This ‘reasoning’ in which a few personal acquaintances – who are most definitely not a random sample – are taken to be representative of a wider group to which they all belong seems to be far too common these days.

      I think training in general critical reasoning must have been dropped from our education systems.

    • JIMJFOX says

      Jun 10, 2014 at 6:59 am

      PJG- me, too. How I wish my abilities were somewhere near the level of IQ or Robert. I find that when discussing Islam, it is effective to stop the instant the other party mentions ‘Muslims’ and remind them it’s NOT about Muslims but their belief system. It helps to remind them that the vast majority of Islam’s victims are Muslims!

      • Julian says

        Jun 10, 2014 at 9:28 am

        It’s just impossible to debate Robert Spencer using facts and not hyperbole. He has such a depth of knowledge and expresses this knowledge in such an easily understandable manner, that he just skewers his opponents leaving them as blubbering fools.
        Thank you Mr. Spencer for your incredible courage.

  7. citycat says

    Jun 9, 2014 at 9:13 pm

    If Islam can get a lie accepted, in any way at all, then it is one up for the bully-coward, especially from the point of view of the gang/mob members who grin at the prospect of infidels being fooled by a lie, especially a deliberate lie, which is then regarded as an aspect of dominance that then boosts the confidence of the mob. Islam is a bully coward. Just heard the bully’s have abducted 20 more girls. It is all terror, fear, lies, twisted truth, the truth is being attacked. Fight back.

  8. SAM says

    Jun 9, 2014 at 10:39 pm

    Robert,

    You are a true hero for freedom. I admire you that you can go through these idiots namely, Muslims, liberals and enemies of USA like this Russian reporter. I can not even handle my liberal family members and friends without getting my blood pressure high to the max. All I can say is THANK YOU

  9. Sweetness says

    Jun 10, 2014 at 12:56 am

    Thank you, Robert, for re-posting that tv interview. She has not had a lashing like that since never. And you were smiling the whole time. Is your secret to staying cool is that you do not gesticulate? Bravo, sir! Bravo!

  10. alyn21 says

    Jun 10, 2014 at 12:59 am

    Doug Saunders wrote a book claiming that muslim immigration to Canada poses no threat to us. He even tried to debate a muslim living in Canada who admitted that muslim immigration was a big problem.
    This man is an absolute moron and an embarrassment to any Canadian with half a brain in his head.
    Mind you, he sounds like an absolute genius compared to the Russian lady that tried to take down Robert Spencer in an interview on Russian TV. I have watched two such interviews and am amazed that she had the nerve to take on Spencer more then once.
    Keep up the good work Robert. We need your clarity in a world that appears to be sinking into a sludge of ignorance and stupidity.

  11. occupant 9 says

    Jun 10, 2014 at 1:43 am

    Doug Saunders has a career in opposing common sense and logic. Worse, his denial of the Mohammedan’s own intent via their own words can only elevate his worth in a worthless society, and that’s what the Left dreams of. So, Doug Saunders is a hero to the Left, since his efforts are aimed at convincing us to not believe our own lying eyes, a highly regarded Leftist attribute.

    When ideology trump reality, such as we see with Islam and the Left, we get a future full of murder.

  12. imnokuffar says

    Jun 10, 2014 at 2:26 am

    All Robert does is to tell the truth in a lucid way.

    The true stupidity of some of those who interview him shines through each time they open their mouths to defend of justify Islam.

    They know nothing and understand even less.

  13. Alarmed Pig Farmer says

    Jun 10, 2014 at 7:55 am

    Personal safety is of paramount importance when it comes to Moslems. It’s no coincidence that what Doug Sanders did does not put him or his close ones in danger of being stabbed, shot or blown up by an IED. And, in the tradition of turnspeak, he gets the credit for showing the independence and bravery of exposing a liar. He never explains exactly *how* Spencer is a liar, but the accusation is big enough to float on its own.

  14. alyn21 says

    Jun 10, 2014 at 12:16 pm

    One of the most common arguments supporting muslims is that not all of them are violent.
    This is true, however does not mean that they do not support the violence that is done by others in the name of Islam??
    I am very supportive of our police forces and our army. However I do not chase bad guys and do not go to Afghanistan to fight. Does that mean I cannot support the people that do? Why can’t muslims be in support of jihad without actively taking part in it?
    I have seen polls taken regarding the implementation of sharia law, as well as the law against apostacy and it seems that every poll taken shows a majority of muslims in support of these ideas. I am sure that the people who vote in these polls are not all radicals.
    So this would suggest that just because a muslim is not actively involved in committing jihad violence does not mean he or she does not support it.
    As far as I am concerned that makes them part of the problem.

    • dumbledoresarmy says

      Jun 12, 2014 at 4:03 am

      You wrote.

      “I am very supportive of our police forces and our army. However I do not chase bad guys and do not go to Afghanistan to fight.

      “Does that mean I cannot support the people that do?

      “Why can’t muslims be in support of jihad without actively taking part in it?”

      EXACTLY.

      Perfect analogy.

      Those who engage in full-on “hot” jihad – combat jihad – or engage in “sharia patrols” are just the pointy end of the Ummah (or allah Gang, or Mohammedan Mob) stick. They’re the ‘soldiers’ and ‘police’ – the Enforcers of the Mohammedan Mob. The rest are – so to speak – “camp followers”, engaging in logistical and “moral” support, propaganda, provisioning, etc.

      To deploy a different analogy: the mohammedan Mob, or Ummah, is the sheltering and nurturing sea within which the jihadis swim and from which, ceaselessly, they emerge.

      Wherever there are Muslims there will be – sooner or later – Jihad.

  15. Jay says

    Jun 10, 2014 at 2:30 pm

    If you sue the Globe for slander and libel would that not get the point across to Saunders of the consequences of lying as a news reporter?

  16. sidney penny says

    Jun 11, 2014 at 9:40 am

    Just look at what words Doug Saunders uses:

    elected politicians, who cheer

    Putin-admiring and Putin-emulating parties

    anti-immigrant,

    outright racist and anti-Semitic

    Geert Wilders, the mop-haired head of the Freedom Party in the Netherlands

    North American right-wing

    anti-immigration activists,

    the right fringe of Canada’s Conservatives,

    American anti-Muslim activist Robert Spencer

    Ezra Levant, the right-wing pundit with Canada’s Sun Media,

    cheered France’s National Front, Britain’s UKIP and the other Putin-backing parties

    embrace of Putinist ideas

  17. sidney penny says

    Jun 11, 2014 at 10:01 am

    He is what I call the old Robert Spencer.
    or Robert Spencer the First

    Although he talks about the history of India, the contents apply to everywhere.

    http://voiceofdharma.org/books/htemples2/app4.htm

    Everyone should read this chapter (if not the whole book) (free online) to see:

    how you can lie,

    how you can twist the facts,

    how you can lie and get away with it,

    how you do not respond and get away with it ,

    how you can argue from authority,

    how not to justify your position of your school, or organization,

    how you can be selective with facts,

    how to claim your work is scholarly when it is not,

    how to strike a pose of superiority,

    how you can float fiction,

    how you can be an apologist for Islamic imperialism,

    how you can to deny Islamic theology,

    how not draw fair conclusions regarding the character and role of two religions,

    how to select facts and floating fictions ,

    how to be silent when the other party is looking forward to a fruitful dialogue,

    how not to see things in a proper perspective,

    how to exaggerate in order to whitewash or counter-balance the record of Islamic intolerance,

    how to ignore fourteen centuries of Islam crowded with religious crimes of all sorts,

    how to ignore instances inspired by Islamic theology, a theology of intolerance,

    how to ignore the fact that Islam has hailed as heroes only those characters who excelled in intolerance, compared with other religions,

    how not to give proper knowledge or perspective because of your platform,

    The article also shows how honest people can become victims of hostile propaganda.

  18. sidney penny says

    Jun 11, 2014 at 10:08 am

    What is wrong with journalism now days?

    There is:

    spin,
    bias,
    lack of ethics (forget about media ethics),
    outright lies,
    opinions rather than journalism,
    distortions of positions and facts (sometimes willfully),
    hypocrisy,
    lack of accuracy,
    dishonesty,
    personal attacks,
    opinions rather than facts,
    little regard for truth,
    missing out of vital parts of the story in a report (omission of facts),
    poor investigation,
    political leanings rather than journalist neutrality
    lack of representing both sides of the debate /story

    They cannot refute so they name-call and smear:

    “Geert Wilders, the mop-haired head of the Freedom Party in the Netherlands”

    What is the point about talking about his hair rather than his arguments?

    “American anti-Muslim “

    What about anti Islam?

    They cannot debate so they destroy your good name.

    Yes Robert you may be well be advised to take out defamation proceedings against him to teach him and others not to destroy your good name.

    All of Robert Spencer’s books, articles and posts are factual, well researched, well reasoned and logical. Keep up the good work Robert.

  19. RodSerling says

    Jun 11, 2014 at 4:23 pm

    Let’s go through it:

    Saunders: “American anti-Muslim activist Robert Spencer”

    He makes use of the smear that Spencer’s opposition to the jihad and sharia, which violate human rights and equality, is “anti-Muslim”. Yet Saunders–like all the rest who use it–can’t seem to produce any actual quotes of Spencer saying anything anti-Muslim (unless you think opposing sharia and jihad is inherently anti-Muslim–an assumption that Spencer does not make, e.g., see below). To show how far Saunders departs from reality in making the smear, here is a quote from Spencer, from the Russia Today interview which Saunders cites:

    Robert Spencer: “Of course. People are people everywhere, human nature is everywhere the same. Millions of Muslims, probably tens and hundreds of millions, they don’t want to live under Islamic law, they rejected it in Egypt when the Muslim Brotherhood tried to impose it, and millions of Muslims took to the streets to topple the Muslim Brotherhood regime there just last summer. Islamic law is something that is, denies equality of rights to women, denies equality of rights to non-Muslims, equality of rights to gays, and denies the freedom of speech, mandates the death penalty for those who leave Islam and many Muslims don’t want to live that way.The reality is that people are people everywhere. The teaching of Islam is one thing and every individual believer is quite another; they may have a very close relationship with Islamic teaching and want to follow it out or they may not pay attention to it or they may not like parts of it; and so, to point to Muslims and say, “you see, so many of them are nice guys, that must mean Islam doesn’t have a problem” is merely to stick your head in the sand and to deny that Islam does have these doctrines of violence and supremacy and is in dire need of reform, by these Muslims of goodwill.”

    Saunders: “[Spencer] made a point of appearing on the Russia Today network (shortly after most of its American staff had quit and denounced it as a Kremlin propaganda outlet)”

    Saunders’ Logic: If Spencer appears on a news network, he supports the news network–especially in just the ways Saunders wants.

    Saunders: “…to attack the United States”

    Saunders’ Logic: Spencer criticizing Obama’s and the FBI’s failures that allowed a terrorist attack on American civilians is “attack[ing] the United States.”

    Saunders: “…and endorse Mr. Putin’s approach toward Muslim minorities.”

    Nowhere in the RT interview or anywhere else has Spencer supported Putin’s approach to Muslim minorities. Yet Saunders claims, in his piece, that Spencer’s “admiration” of Putin is “outspoken.”

    Saunders: ““Barack Obama is somebody who has been embarrassed on the world stage by Vladimir Putin more than once,” Mr. Spencer said.”

    Saunders’ Logic: When a speaker says that X was embarrassed by Y, that necessarily or strongly implies that the speaker is supporting Y in any and all respects (especially in just those that Saunders wants), no matter the context.

    Here is some of the context for the “embarrassed” quote:

    RS: “Yes, well certainly of course there’s the whole history of the Cold War, but Barack Obama is no Cold warrior. Barack Obama is somebody who has been embarrassed on the world stage by Vladimir Putin more than once, and he’s certainly not going to want to, in that, in that light do the Russians any favours or portray them in a good light. What he’s trying to do with the Boston bombing is deflect attention away from the manifest failure of the FBI and the failure of the FBI resulting from its wilful ignorance of the jihadi threat; and so the Russians are an easy and convenient scapegoat for him to blame in their place since, ironically enough, because of the fact that the Russians gave the FBI the initial intelligence about the Tsarnaev brothers, but then declined to give the FBI more information.They didn’t need to give the FBI more information, they, the Russians, have no responsibility to do the Americans’ intelligence work for them, and the idea that they’re responsible for the failures of American intelligence is patently absurd. But, uh, it’s, it was a very easy thing for him to do. Barack Obama has a history of trying to deflect responsibility away from all of his many failures and to blame everyone but himself for the fact that his administration is one long train-wreck.”

    Here’s how Saunders characterizes his mischaracterization of Spencer:

    https://twitter.com/DougSaunders/status/476334722092507136
    “1) Write about a US figure’s embarrassing moment on Russia Today (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/vladimir-putins-fifth-column-in-the-west/article19021604/#dashboard/follows/ …) 2) Get likened to guess who”

    Yes, you see, poor innocent and duly diligent Doug Saunders was just “writing” about it.

  20. gravenimage says

    Jun 12, 2014 at 11:16 pm

    Sickening lack of journalistic integrity.

    But then, while this is more common now, it is hardly new—there were journalistic apologists for both the brutal Soviet Union and for the Fascists, who did not just laud tyranny but often smeared the defenders of freedom.

    Here’s more crap from “journalist” Doug Saunders:

    “10 Myths About Muslim Immigrants in the West”

    http://dougsaunders.net/2013/09/10-myths-about-muslim-immigrants-in-the-west/

    Where he sneers at the idea of the flood of baleful Mohammedan immigrants being a threat.

    But then in seeming contradiction he writes this:

    “What Turns Some Western Muslims Into Terrorists? The Causes of Extremism”

    http://dougsaunders.net/2013/04/muslim-immigrants-terrorists-jihad-terrorism/

    Here he sneers at Anti-Jihadists Mark Steyn and Daniel Pipes, and declares that terrorism really has nothing to do with religion—even though, of course, all of these terrorists are for some reason—well—all Muslim.

    He then blames Islamic terrorism on the “true” perpetrators:

    “Jihadist terrorism became a phenomenon in the West starting in the early 1990s as an extreme political response to the presence of Western soldiers in Islamic lands.”

    In other words, it’s all the fault of the West.

    Of course, none of this explains Jihad in the Middle East, in Russia, in Asia, or in sub-Saharan Africa—but Doug Saunders, no doubt, hopes we won’t notice.

    He than laughably makes this claim:

    “Indeed, fundamentalists and religious Islamists are often the most effective forces among Muslim immigrants in opposing terrorist movements”—in other words, we should import more Islamist fundamentalists, and toot sweet! Good God…

    He also implausibly claims that islamic terrorism in the West is declining, and that the real threat is the “right wing”. I’m sure the victims of the Boston Marathon Bombing would be happy to hear that…

    He then makes the all-too-predictable conflation—that Muslim terrorists have the same world view as the “Muslim tide activists” (Saunders’ odd term for Anti-Jihadists).

    One could, of course, say the same for Anti-Fascists—that Hitler had the “same world view” as Winston Churchill—i.e., that both thought Fascists could be a threat to their neighbors.

    Of course, this is the same fallacy in both cases—recognizing and warning against a threat is not the same thing as *causing* the threat. Morally, in fact, it is *just the opposite*.

    Saunder’s great “opus” is “The Myth of the Muslim Tide”.

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