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Jihad Watch

Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Islamic State to Christians: Convert to Islam, pay jizya, or die

Jul 18, 2014 4:13 pm By Robert Spencer

isil.siWill Muslim spokesmen denounce this call as un-Islamic, or remain silent about it? I’m betting the latter, in light of passages like these that make it clear that the Islamic State’s call is in complete accord with the Qur’an and Islamic law:

“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” (Qur’an 9:29).

Muhammad said: “Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war…When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them…. If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them. (Sahih Muslim 4294.)

“Convert, pay tax, or die, Islamic State warns Christians,” Reuters, July 18, 2014:

BAGHDAD (Reuters) – Islamist insurgents have issued an ultimatum to northern Iraq’s dwindling Christian population to either convert to Islam, pay a religious levy or face death, according to a statement distributed in the militant-controlled city of Mosul.

The statement issued by the Islamic State, the al Qaeda offshoot which led last month’s lightning assault to capture swathes of north Iraq, and seen by Reuters, said the ruling would come into effect on Saturday.

It said Christians who wanted to remain in the “caliphate” that the Islamic State declared this month in parts of Iraq and Syria must agree to abide by terms of a “dhimma” contract – a historic practice under which non-Muslims were protected in Muslim lands in return for a special levy known as “jizya”.

“We offer them three choices: Islam; the dhimma contract – involving payment of jizya; if they refuse this they will have nothing but the sword,” the announcement said.

A resident of Mosul said the statement, issued in the name of the Islamic State in Iraq’s northern province of Nineveh, had been distributed on Thursday and read out in mosques.

It said Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, which the group has now named Caliph Ibrahim, had set a Saturday deadline for Christians who did not want to stay and live under those terms to “leave the borders of the Islamic Caliphate”.

“After this date, there is nothing between us and them but the sword,” it said.

The Nineveh decree echoes one that the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant, the former name for the Islamic State, issued in the Syrian city of Raqqa in February, demanding that Christians pay the jizya levy in gold and curb displays of their faith in return for protection.

The concept of dhimma, governing non-Muslims living under Islamic rule, dates back to the early Islamic era in the seventh century, but was largely abolished during the Ottoman reforms of the mid-19th century.

Mosul, once home to diverse faiths, had a Christian population of around 100,000 a decade ago, but waves of attacks on Christians since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion to topple Saddam Hussein have seen those numbers collapse.

The resident of Mosul who saw the Islamic State announcement estimated the city’s Christian population before last month’s militant takeover at around 5,000. The vast bulk of those have since fled, leaving perhaps only 200 in the city, he said.

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Filed Under: dhimmitude, Islamic State (aka ISIS, ISIL, Daesh), Muslim persecution of Christians Tagged With: featured


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Comments

  1. Kepha says

    Jul 18, 2014 at 4:16 pm

    No wonder the O like the Syrian rebels! His own government and Party wants Christians in America to pay jizya to the religion of abortion, perversion, and sterility.

    • islamisdeath says

      Jul 18, 2014 at 5:25 pm

      Yep

    • John C. Barile says

      Jul 18, 2014 at 7:09 pm

      I know what you mean.

  2. Jaladhi says

    Jul 18, 2014 at 4:43 pm

    Muslims showing their true colors!! Moderate Muslims of USA agree with ISIS Muslims since CAIR or any other US Muslim organizations have said anything!! Liars and deceivers!!

    • Smokey says

      Jul 18, 2014 at 9:37 pm

      I so agree, now all we have to do is get the Liberals to understand what they are dealing with.

  3. Beagle says

    Jul 18, 2014 at 5:05 pm

    Remember when we were all crazy for talking about the Muslim dream of a caliphate and the dhimma?

    Good times.

  4. CogitoErgoSum says

    Jul 18, 2014 at 5:07 pm

    I thought the Caliph had been wounded and was under intensive care somewhere in Syria. Any more word on that? I thought perhaps God had other plans for him…. but maybe not. I’ll keep praying for him to have that life altering near-death experience though.

  5. Daniel Triplett says

    Jul 18, 2014 at 5:15 pm

    These guys are perfect Muslims, role models for the rest, just doing what their book tells them to do. The same book the so-called “moderate” Muslims worship.

    There are no moderate Muslims; only less-disciplined ones. None can be trusted. Any could become disciplined in a heartbeat.

    In the same way that I don’t attend Church every Sunday or pray before each meal, but I’m no less of a Christian than one who does: This doesn’t make me “moderate,” only less-disciplined. I believe in The Bible and The Lord’s Word every bit as much as any other Christian.

  6. Wellington says

    Jul 18, 2014 at 5:35 pm

    Always refreshing when Muslims state what Islam really calls for. Far prefer it. Everyone who cherishes liberty should want this.

    The obfuscation of Islamic doctrine by both Muslims and non-Muslims, knowingly or unknowingly, is the real problem since it gives cover to the spiritual fascism which is Islam. Everyone who cherishes liberty should know this.

    • Mirren10 says

      Jul 18, 2014 at 7:24 pm

      ”Always refreshing when Muslims state what Islam really calls for. Far prefer it. Everyone who cherishes liberty should want this.”

      Absolutely, Wellington.

      I think even the obfuscators, apologists, and useful idiots, are finding it somewhat difficult and embarrassing to explain away all this !

      • From Iceland says

        Jul 19, 2014 at 8:39 am

        Islam isn´t the only religion who praises violence, what about judaism and christianity you can see similar things in thei,re scripts and laws. To only look at islam is simplifying to much.

        Claims that monotheistic religions are inherently violent

        Some critics of religion such as Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer argue that all monotheistic religions are inherently violent. For example, Nelson-Pallmeyer writes that “Judaism, Christianity and Islam will continue to contribute to the destruction of the world until and unless each challenges violence in “sacred texts” and until each affirms nonviolent power of God”.[12]

        Bruce Feiler writes that “Jews and Christians who smugly console themselves that Islam is the only violent religion are willfully ignoring their past. Nowhere is the struggle between faith and violence described more vividly, and with more stomach-turning details of ruthlessness, than in the Hebrew Bible”.[13] Similarly, Burggraeve and Vervenne describe the Old Testament as full of violence and evidence of both a violent society and a violent god. They write that, “(i)n numerous Old Testament texts the power and glory of Israel’s God is described in the language of violence.” They assert that more than one thousand passages refer to YHWH as acting violently or supporting the violence of humans and that more than one hundred passages involve divine commands to kill humans.

        Here is something you will find in the jewish bible. They have there history of genocide in palestine, it´s not the first time they try to exterminate those who live there before they’re arrival. See for yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_violence

        Wars of extermination in the Tanakh
        See also: Herem (war or property)

        The Tanakh (Jewish Bible) contains commandments that require the Israelites to exterminate seven Canaanite nations, and describes several wars of extermination that annihilated entire cities or groups of peoples.

        Wars of extermination are of historical interest only, and do not serve as a model within Judaism.[20] A formal declaration that the “seven nations” are no longer identifiable was made by Joshua ben Hananiah, around the year 100 CE.[20]

        Extermination is described in several of Judaism’s biblical commandments, known as the 613 Mitzvot:[26]

        Not to keep alive any individual of the seven Canaanite nations (Deut. 20:16)
        To exterminate the seven Canaanite nations from the land of Israel (Deut. 20:17)
        Always to remember what Amalek did (Deut. 25:17)
        That the evil done to us by Amalek shall not be forgotten (Deut. 25:19)
        To destroy the seed of Amalek (Deut. 25:19)

        The extent of extermination is described in the commandment Deut 20:16-18 which orders the Israelites to “not leave alive anything that breathes… completely destroy them …”.[27] Several scholars have characterized the exterminations as genocide.[28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37]
        Victims

        The targets of the extermination commandments were the seven Canaanite nations explicitly identified by God as targets in Deut 7:1-2 and Deut 20:16-18.[38] These seven tribes are Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. Most of these descended from the biblical figure Canaan, as described in Gen 10:15-18. In addition, two others tribes were subject to wars of extermination: Amalekites (1 Samuel 15:1-20)[39] and Midianites (Numbers 31:1-18). The extermination of the Canaanite nations is described primarily in the Book of Joshua (especially Joshua 10:28-42) which includes the Battle of Jericho described in Joshua 6:15-21.

        The instruction God gives in Deut 20:16-18 is for Israelites to exterminate “everything that breathes”, but the precise extent of the killing varied:[40] The instruction was made with respect to the Amalekites 1 Samuel 15:1-20, Canaanites (Battle of Jericho) Joshua 6:15-21, Canaanite nations Joshua 10:28-42, and Midianites Numbers 31:1-18.[38]

        Some scholars such as Van Wees conclude that the biblical accounts of extermination are exaggerated, fictional, or metaphorical.[41] In the archaeological community, the Battle of Jericho is very thoroughly studied, and the consensus of modern scholars is that the story of battle and the associated extermination are a pious fiction and did not happen as described in the Book of Joshua.[42] For example, the Book of Joshua describes the extermination of the Canaanite tribes, yet at a later time, Judges 1:1-2:5 suggests that the extermination was not complete.[43]

        Likewise, it is not clear if the historical Amalekites were exterminated or not. 1 Samuel 15:7-8 implies (“He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword.”) that – after Agag was also killed – the Amalekites were extinct, but in a later story in the time of Hezekiah, the Simeonites annihilated some Amalekites on Mount Seir, and settled in their place: “And five hundred of these Simeonites, led by Pelatiah, Neariah, Rephaiah and Uzziel, the sons of Ishi, invaded the hill country of Seir. They killed the remaining Amalekites who had escaped, and they have lived there to this day.” (1 Chr 4:42-43).[citation needed]
        As genocide

        This site jihadnews is appalling as it is and should be looking at all the extreme beliefs in the world because islam isn´t the only one.

        And for those who want to know I am not a christian, jew or muslim. I have no religion other than i believe in life and the right for everyone to have a life. I believe religion, nationalism and of course greed are the biggest problems of the modern world. We are all just human beings.

        • herpderp says

          Jul 19, 2014 at 10:39 am

          what does anicent history have to do with how a religion acts in modern times?

        • From Iceland says

          Jul 19, 2014 at 11:29 am

          herpderp

          they are qoiting the Qu´ran in this article, did you read what I posted? It´s from the Hebrew bible! It´s not history! People turn to they´re religious books for affirmation that they´re evil doings are OK! For example Israelis and the Hamas. These aren´t really history books, the Bibles or the Qu´ran, It´s probably mostly fictonal, with some hirstorical facts. But people, especially extremists from all sides, use them for evil intensions, and because people can be so blind in they´re beliefs, act accordingly to it.

          All these religions (christians, islam, judaism) have vilence in there holy books, groosom violence that is justified by it is god´s will, there by taking all blame from those who commit those horrible crimes.

          Here is just one example: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler

        • CornHolio says

          Jul 19, 2014 at 1:56 pm

          “they are qoiting the Qu´ran in this article, did you read what I posted? It´s from the Hebrew bible! It´s not history!”
          ————-

          Well that is because ISIS is ACTING on these quotes from the Qur’an! Can’t you see the difference between Muslim groups quoting Qur’anic injunctions in 2104, and OT verses that nobody has EVER used as justification for murder or conquest, let alone in 2014?

          Tell you what, as soon as Jews and Christians start blowing up buses or wiping out entire populations while quoting from the Torah/Old Testament as justification, THEN I’ll agree with you that all religions are equally dangerous to world peace.

          But until that day (which will never come), kindly stop equating Al Qaeda’s bloody-handed barbarians, with the Amish’s barn-raisers.

        • Colleen Gallagher says

          Jul 19, 2014 at 5:22 pm

          Sorry, but you are wrong. In too many ways to count. Some peeps just enjoy being ignorant while boasting to be scholarly

        • From Iceland says

          Jul 21, 2014 at 10:45 am

          If you don´t get the idea that I am not trying to defence what is described in the article, than you are the ignorant ones, and if you really believe that jews and christians haven´t been blowing up busses and killing people in the name of religion in the past century and in the present than you have to start educating yourself. Just looking at one religion and take the few maniacs that are taking words direcly from they´re holy books, does not mean that the whole islamic population of the world is going to do the same, it is not hard to see that if almost 2 billion people (muslims) would practice the jihad you would not be writing this because you would be dead. If you really think that could happen, than you are a maniac. Almost all of muslims are the same as almost all of christians and people of all other religions, just normal people who have no desire of killing anyone.

          http://markhumphrys.com/left.right.violence.html

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_extremist_terrorism

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_religious_terrorism

          You can find alot of violence similar to the Qur’an in the bible. And if you think that none of those who act in the name of christ are not quoiting the bible than you are just in denial. Convert or die is in there to. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/nonchristians.html

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_violence

          http://www.christianity-revealed.com/cr/files/converttochristianityordie.html

          The bottomline is that all these religions come from the same source and have more incommon than not. All are based on writings that people made ages ago to control others, and the funny thing is that still today, in 2014, people all over the world believe in these stories like children believe in fairytails! Some people then use these childish believes of people to support they´re political agendas.

    • gravenimage says

      Jul 18, 2014 at 9:03 pm

      Wellington wrote:

      Always refreshing when Muslims state what Islam really calls for. Far prefer it. Everyone who cherishes liberty should want this.
      …………………………..

      As much as I loath Taqiyya, Wellington, its use is the back-handed Muslim acknowledgment of Infidel power.

      They know that if they reveal their ugly intentions to the Kuffar in the West, that they will resist.

      They only take off the mask and reveal the naked horror of Islam *when they feel emboldened*—when they don’t have to lie to Infidels, because they know that the threatened Infidels can do nothing but pay, or flee, or die.

  7. jewdog says

    Jul 18, 2014 at 6:07 pm

    Yup: Koran, Tribute, Sword. How about none of the above.

  8. mary_gonzales says

    Jul 18, 2014 at 6:24 pm

    I really hate US,UK,most Europe for their silent, they even support the terror to kill Christians in whole world…I thought the west is Christian but I am wrong..I was really respect of the west countries.

    • Mirren10 says

      Jul 18, 2014 at 7:04 pm

      ”I really hate US,UK,most Europe for their silent, they even support the terror to kill Christians in whole world”

      You should differentiate between the **governments** of the US, UK, and Europe, and the people. ( I hope you do ) Many, many people in the countries you name, loathe the mohammedan attacks on Christians and Jews, and do their utmost to make their voices known.

      Where are you from, Mary ? Is **your** country silent, or vocal ? And on which side ?

      • Wellington says

        Jul 18, 2014 at 7:46 pm

        The differentiation you noted, Mirren10, to mary_gonzales (whose first language I assume is Spanish and who is doing her best to convey her thoughts in English, never mind how I would butcher the Spanish language were I to attempt to convey anything in that great tongue) is key, is crucial. In fact, it’s an absolute.

        Few times before, if any, have the Western elites been more out of touch with the bulk of the people over whom they temporarily rule (like Cameron and Obama). This tragic disconnect only aids Islam and other ignorances. If I know anything from my half century study of history, I know this.

        Hope you and yours are doing well, Mirren10. Take good care my across-the-pond friend.

      • Mary_Gonzales says

        Jul 19, 2014 at 6:30 am

        I mean is the government of that country.. I am sorry for my bad grammar. I hope you understand what the point, I really rare using English. I am from Indonesia, and I think you know how my country acts for the international religion crime. We are the minority, but we still survive here.

    • gravenimage says

      Jul 18, 2014 at 10:12 pm

      Yes, Mary—the West has, with a few exceptions, largely ignored the terrible genocide of Christians in Dar-al-Islam.

      This is because endangered Christians, somehow, fail to fit the “politically correct” paradigm, where Christians are considered the powerful—and hence undeservedly suspect—majority.

      Western authorities have pointedly ignored these atrocities, and many ordinary, decent Westerners appear to be completely ignorant of them.

      Moreover, we should be concerned not just because these are Christians and we are Christian nations (or perhaps post-Christian nations)—we should be concerned because these are innocent people being victimized without provocation.

      I have the same concern for Hindus and Sikhs being victimized in Pakistan, and animists being victimized in Nigeria and Sudan, and the tiny remaining remnant of Jews being victimized in Yemen.

      That Christians being systematically victimized in Muslim countries is *not* a widespread cause of outrage in the West is one of the great moral failings of our time.

      • Mary_Gonzales says

        Jul 19, 2014 at 6:51 am

        thank you to understand my words. My point is the Christian, the Hindu, or any other group who support humanity, must unite to fight this animal, what ever they are. (I am sorry for my bad grammars).

        • Semeu says

          Jul 20, 2014 at 1:50 am

          Pay no notice to Jihadski, the guy is ” orang Gila”. My guess you are from the Maluku where many family names are derived from the Portuguese including da Lima, da Costa, Dias, da Freitas, Gonsalves, Mendoza, Rodrigues, and da Silva. This can be traced back to the time when Spain and Portugal where plundering the Banda Island for mace and nutmeg.

          Jihadski should have known this as he claims that he was married to a Philipinno,

        • Mazo says

          Jul 20, 2014 at 4:35 pm

          Tens of thousands of Chinese were martyred in a rebellion against the Spanish imperialists in Manila in 1663, which was the event which forced the Spanish colonialists to flee and abandon their colonies in Maluku (the moluccas), and Zamboanga Mindanao, as they withdrew their forces to Manila to confront the martyrs. That was why Spain lost the Moluccas and was set back on Mindanao by decades.

          Just like the thousands of Chinese martyred on Java in 1741 in the rebellion against the Dutch colonialists.

          We must not forget their martyrdom which forced the colonialists to curtail their greed for other people’s lands- Spanish greed for Muslim and Animist land in the Maluku and Mindanao islands.

        • Mazo says

          Jul 20, 2014 at 4:47 pm

          Weren’t some people mentioning something about non-Arab Muslims using Arabic names?

          How does their amoeba sized brains explain why Christians in Philippines, Latin America, and Moluccas, Angola, (and other former Spanish and Portuguese colonies) use Portuguese and Spanish names?

        • John Stefan Obeda says

          Jul 20, 2014 at 8:51 pm

          God the Holy Trinity bless you Mary and your family and protect you and all of God’s dear children in Indonesia and everywhere else. It is very upsetting to me that the true God who truly loves us – He sacrificed His own Son to redeem us from sin and eternal death – it bothers me that He is permitting so many of His followers to be persecuted and killed by His own enemies, the Islamists. Now we see through a glass darkly. God keep us all faithful no matter what.

  9. London Jim says

    Jul 18, 2014 at 7:03 pm

    Nineveh is quite a thought-provoking place.

    • Mirren10 says

      Jul 18, 2014 at 7:08 pm

      ”Quinquireme of Nineveh from distant Ophir,
      Rowing home to haven in sunny Palestine,
      With a cargo of ivory,
      And apes and peacocks,
      Sandalwood, cedarwood, and sweet white wine”

      Those were the days …

    • John C. Barile says

      Jul 18, 2014 at 7:16 pm

      You must have heard, LJ, how the Khalifah’s men took sledgehammers to smash the reputed Tomb of Jonah–and so they did.

      • gravenimage says

        Jul 18, 2014 at 10:24 pm

        Yes, John—this sickening story is here:

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2685923/Shocking-moment-ISIS-militants-sledgehammers-Mosul-tomb-Prophet-Jonah-50-blindfolded-bodies-massacred-south-Baghdad.html

  10. Richie says

    Jul 18, 2014 at 8:02 pm

    They remind me of the Mafia. Pay protection money- or else!

  11. gravenimage says

    Jul 18, 2014 at 8:41 pm

    Islamic State to Christians: Convert to Islam, pay jizya, or die
    …………………………..

    Classical Islam—as noted, this is in the Qur’an itself, and was instituted by the baleful “Prophet” Muhammed.

    Does anyone at Reuters understand that this is “protection” only in the sense of Mafia “protection money”?

    More:

    The concept of dhimma, governing non-Muslims living under Islamic rule, dates back to the early Islamic era in the seventh century, but was largely abolished during the Ottoman reforms of the mid-19th century.
    …………………………..

    Do they realize that those reforms were only instituted because of pressure from the civilized West?

    And do they further understand that when the Ottomans were unable to systematically exploit and abuse their Infidel minority, that they decided to murder and drive them out?

    And this hideous policy survived the Ottoman Empire itself, and was continued by the “Young Turks” and under Kemalism. It didn’t finally end until 1922, with the horrifying destruction of Smyrna.

    The Armenian Genocide—which also targeted Greek, Assyrian, and Levantine Christians, as well as Jews—killed well over a million innocent people. Today, there is just a tiny remnant of non-Muslim remaining in all of Turkey.

    By the way, what is now being touted as the new “Caliphate”—eastern Syria and western Iraq—was once part of the old one. The whole region was under Ottoman rule a century ago.

    Islamic savagery never really goes away—under pressure from the civilized world it may ease somewhat for a time, but that is all.

    God, I hate Islam.

    • Jan Fourowls says

      Jul 18, 2014 at 10:30 pm

      Thanks gravenimage for information I hadn’t known. From your info I found this about the Armenian genocide (after noting how many of the other top search-engine hits didn’t even clarify that those responsible were Muslims): http://www.armenian-“young Turks” genocide.org/Education.56/current_category.117/resourceguide_detail.html

      One takeaway from the link is not to live near railway access points in the U.S. that could be used for transport to killing zones by Muslims.

      It shows the strength of interlocking global taqiyya — starting back at the dawn of the technology (telegraph) age — that Armenian genocide denial became a common meme.

      I want to stand on a rooftop with a megaphone and shout about Islam’s evil to U.S. pro-Islam risk-deniers — but being carted off to a rubber room somewhere would not serve anybody but the enemy.

      • Davegreybeard says

        Jul 19, 2014 at 1:03 am

        @Jan Fourowls
        “One takeaway from the link is not to live near railway access points in the U.S. that could be used for transport to killing zones by Muslims.”

        There will not be any “Transport to killing zones” of masses of innocent populations happening in the U.S.

        The situation here is a bit different due to our Second Amendment. You know, that little provision in our Constitution, which many Europeans like to derisively sneer at as barbaric and uncivilized and antiquated. The one that declares we have a right to “keep and bear arms.”

        Fact is America is awash in stockpiles of ammunition and guns of excellent quality, and has a population that knows how to use them.

        So, THAT scenario just aint gonna happen HERE.

        • Jan Fourowls says

          Jul 19, 2014 at 10:47 pm

          There are huge swaths of America (cities especially) where many citizens do not own a gun, believe that not people but guns kill people (I know, I know) and would otherwise be sitting sheep to be corralled to the trains. Also many Americans I know keep their guns unloaded for the safety of children, and if boots on the ground started kicking in doors, they would be hard pressed to lock and load before the bad guy’s gun was at their temple.

          I find the notion that the Second Amendment will save all Americans untenable. Yes, a citizen with a loaded gun will stop at least the first few bad guys coming in the door. But Americans in general don’t live in walled enclaves of fellow gun owners who would rally like citizen soldiers in a common defense. I am sorry to say that I believe you’re indulging in a dangerous form of fantasy and denial to the detriment perhaps of your family and those you love.

          We need other and better solutions than guns. Plus, POTUS has access to a nuclear arsenal and the codes to use it. Do you?

    • Katkat Wuyep Madem says

      Jul 20, 2014 at 9:20 am

      Correct hatred Because islam was designed by satan and passed down to humanity by satan’s apostle or messenger – Mohammed. Only evil men and women can and should love such a religion which hypocritically preaches peace but practices violence.

  12. pumbar says

    Jul 18, 2014 at 10:09 pm

    Get Cameron over there to tell them “this has nothing to do with islam”.

  13. Art Mellon says

    Jul 19, 2014 at 12:06 am

    For most people; if it doesn’t happen to them, they could care let.

  14. Jan Fourowls says

    Jul 19, 2014 at 2:55 am

    Winston Churchill famously said (as JWers like to quote) and every JW post proves: “…Mohammedanism… is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog … raising fearless warriors at every step …” (The River War, First Edition.)

    Churchill also said: “The flame of Christian ethics is still our highest guide. To guard and cherish it is our first interest, both spiritually and materially. The fulfilment of Spiritual duty in our daily life is vital to our survival. Only by bringing it into perfect application can we hope to solve for ourselves the problems of this world and not of this world alone.” (March 31, 1949 Speech at the MIT Mid-Century Convocation.)

    We’re now living in the Oligarchic States of America. Most Americans cannot give up the democracy fantasy because we were weaned on the idea of a republic, pledged allegiance to it in public schools and once, it is true, the U.S. as founded operated as a beacon of freedom. Immigrants don’t flock here for no reason. Even now, imperiled as we are by Islam and other evils, America is still a dream many seek to find. And sometimes I like others write to my Senators and Congressman as a stop-gap measure, hoping they might do the right thing.

    Many regular commenters know all this. I write mainly for the newcomers to JW who may wonder how we’re planning to address the evils of Islam now that we see the dangers so clearly. And I can only speak for myself, and share where the process is unfolding as I see it.

    In our newly Oligarchic States, the democracy fantasy is right up there with the fantasy of joining the oligarchs by getting very rich which rarely happens anymore to anybody who won’t capitulate to the generic immorality of the oligarchy (which is pro-Islam because of all that big-oil and post-Ottoman Empire billionaire money now invested in media propaganda on both sides of the blue-red divide).

    There may be no overall long-range solution to the problem of Islam except to trust that God’s guidance (or for atheists, the greater good’s guidance) might be able to lead each of us to do our best, day by day, to invoke the reign not of terror but of good over evil. With billions of human agents exercising free will in the world day by day, an approach of being flexible and inviting daily guidance might be the only rational way our good efforts to oppose Islam could bear fruit.

    As much as I want to believe political solutions to the FUBAR of Islam are possible, my desire seems part of the fantasy. RINOs predominate along with dastardly Democrats in the (inaptly named) “Citizens United” unlimited (privileged oligarchic) corporate campaign funding milieu, not to mention the beltway tentacles around the incessant deal-making and political profiteering of those with the clout to become federal leaders in the first place.

    Americans: I love us, and I understand our quasi-addictive and pervasive denial of reality (having harbored typical American fantasies striven for myself in the past). But if as a nation’s people at least a majority of us don’t find the way to give up fantasies and face the reality of what America has become, we will never be free of Islam and its oligarchic sympathizers because what we cannot face we collectively will not change.

    In the earlier era of America’s hard-won freedom we were the largest safe harbor for globally persecuted Jews [the “apple of God’s eye,” (source, the Bible, Zechariah 2:8, Psalm 17:8)] and the biggest repository in the world of Bible-based reformed Christians who actually practiced Christianity and the attendant prayer life.

    Today, instead, an apparent majority of U.S. churches have:
    (i) Fallen away from the Bible’s faith-essential teachings (e.g., becoming basically creedless in seeker-friendliness or minimizing the power and importance of prayer and/or sidestepping Bible study for “more relevant” content mirroring secular society’s trendiness, i.e., (2) and (3) below),
    (ii) Overtly disavowed Israel (which also breaks Christian solidarity with the Jewish people), and/or
    (iii) Embraced Islam as an “interfaith” equivalent colloquially called “Chrislam” (although in taqiyya practice Muslims use it to convey Islam’s supremacy for propagandizing against the message of Christianity that Jesus the Son is uniquely the way to the Father, a position considered abomination by the Quran).

    Examples (and there are others) of (i), (ii) and/or (iii) are the Disciples of Christ, the Assemblies of God, the Episcopal Church, the Presbyterian Church USA and the Roman Catholic Church (whose present Pope enjoys being the side dish when he invites Imams to pray, Allahu Akbar, at the Vatican). There are many online links but I already tend to link excessively so not tonight!

    Megachurches free of overt denominational influences often fall in with Chrislam, engage in (i), (ii) and/or (iii) above and also dilute the gospel to embrace: (1) church-branded and updated versions of Dale Carnegie’s “How to Win Friends and Influence People,” (2) the devolution to postmodernist sexuality contrary to the Bible (by normalizing divorce, premarital and extramarital sex, BDSM and pornography for consenting adults, abortion and gay marriage), and (3) a focus on entertainment pizazz and moral relativism to override sin reformation and character building.

    As a country after the founding, we raised up Christians like Abraham Lincoln who, while not a church member “never denied the truth of the Scriptures,” and strong Jesus-followers like Harriet Tubman (“the Moses of her people”) and Sojourner Truth who did the miraculous as once enslaved African-American women before any civil rights laws protected them by race or sex.

    I don’t make a dime for writing this, I don’t proselytize for any earthly organization, but I do have to wonder — because I care! — if our efforts in the U.S. and elsewhere to end Islam’s tyranny would be more successful if more people would give Jesus Christ a shot at being not just their Savior but also the author and, more importantly, the finisher of the faith.

    From the Bible a good case can be made that since the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, the world has been in the “end times” on a progression beginning with the 1st century A.D. (C.E.). The “end times” would by this analysis last until whenever (maybe our era) God shuts the still open door against anybody else joining in at conclusion of terrible earthly tribulations (a testing period, too, in preparation for eternity with God or not), followed by a remade heaven and earth for those who want relationship with one another in loving goodness — and also who want eternal relationship with Father, Son and Holy Spirit Who is Ruach HaKodesh (in the Hebrew analogous to the Aramaic, which I like because we have no reason to believe Jesus read or spoke the Greek language in which most existing handwritten copies of the Bible’s New Testament was written).

    By this analysis, after several centuries of Constantinian convolutions away from Christian essentials, in the 7th century Islam arose as a vast and vile evil (demonic in its fury) against God’s people: Jews and Christians, and all who might come to know the God of the Bible through their witness.

    Islam (A) existed (although not in the U.S. to any degree when Christianity and the U.S. as refuge for Jews prevailed) throughout the world to torture and terrorize non-Muslims in varying degrees based on geopolitical circumstances until the end of the Ottoman Empire, (B) collaborated with WWII-era fascism and genocide against Jews, and also fought and killed among its adherents for bragging rights to which group was the most vicious, and (C) came blazing into the modern era with big oil money in Muslim hands as the West’s manufactured Arab countries began to spawn Islam rising again in all its hatefulness. Now we have IS the Caliphate, sworn to subjugate if not kill us.

    Because we are powerless humanly to stem the tide of Islamic terror into the U.S. (given that Obama has control of the military and security apparatus against us), unless we each as we see fit consider turning to Jesus — “Christus Victor” over the supernatural evil working through Islam, the Quran, the Imams, the Caliph, the Jihadists, the whosoevers and whatsoevers of this vile and human-hating abomination pretending to be a religion of peace — we may need God’s authentic assistance. (Many of us can already vouch for supernatural protection when to date we’ve encountered situations that we would not have survived but for the God of the Bible.) Thus I implore you to consider if it might be worth giving Jesus Christ a try, just to see how that might be, and also in hopes of victory over Islam.

    The message of the triune God is the antithesis of Islam, because Muhammad/Quran/Allah are Antichrist. [Source: Bible (1John 2:22).]

    Not the Muslim act of spilling a human enemy’s blood, but coming to Jesus whose blood was shed for all humanity is the message as stated by the hymn written by Charlotte Elliot in 1835:

    “Just as I am, without one plea, but that Thy blood was shed for me, and that Thou bidst me come to Thee, O Lamb of God, I come …”

    • Jan Fourowls says

      Jul 19, 2014 at 3:07 am

      Mea culpa, editing for clarity to above:

      “Because we are powerless humanly to stem the tide of Islamic terror into the U.S. … unless we each as we see fit consider turning to Jesus — “Christus Victor” … over the supernatural evil working through Islam… — we may not succeed in overcoming Islam because collectively as a nation we reject the need for God’s authentic assistance.

      Not a sound bite!

  15. Michael Copeland says

    Jul 19, 2014 at 3:28 am

    O for the day when more journalists inform themselves of Islam’s three-fold choice.
    See “Islam: the Learning Curve”
    http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/index.php/home/root/news-libertygb/4402-islam-the-learning-curve

  16. cheekturner says

    Jul 19, 2014 at 5:55 am

    Where oh where is pope Urban today?

  17. From Iceland says

    Jul 19, 2014 at 8:42 am

    Islam isn´t the only religion who praises violence, what about judaism and christianity you can see similar things in thei,re scripts and laws. To only look at islam is simplifying to much.

    Claims that monotheistic religions are inherently violent

    Some critics of religion such as Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer argue that all monotheistic religions are inherently violent. For example, Nelson-Pallmeyer writes that “Judaism, Christianity and Islam will continue to contribute to the destruction of the world until and unless each challenges violence in “sacred texts” and until each affirms nonviolent power of God”.[12]

    Bruce Feiler writes that “Jews and Christians who smugly console themselves that Islam is the only violent religion are willfully ignoring their past. Nowhere is the struggle between faith and violence described more vividly, and with more stomach-turning details of ruthlessness, than in the Hebrew Bible”.[13] Similarly, Burggraeve and Vervenne describe the Old Testament as full of violence and evidence of both a violent society and a violent god. They write that, “(i)n numerous Old Testament texts the power and glory of Israel’s God is described in the language of violence.” They assert that more than one thousand passages refer to YHWH as acting violently or supporting the violence of humans and that more than one hundred passages involve divine commands to kill humans.

    Here is something you will find in the jewish bible. They have there history of genocide in palestine, it´s not the first time they try to exterminate those who live there before they’re arrival. See for yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_violence

    Wars of extermination in the Tanakh
    See also: Herem (war or property)

    The Tanakh (Jewish Bible) contains commandments that require the Israelites to exterminate seven Canaanite nations, and describes several wars of extermination that annihilated entire cities or groups of peoples.

    Wars of extermination are of historical interest only, and do not serve as a model within Judaism.[20] A formal declaration that the “seven nations” are no longer identifiable was made by Joshua ben Hananiah, around the year 100 CE.[20]

    Extermination is described in several of Judaism’s biblical commandments, known as the 613 Mitzvot:[26]

    Not to keep alive any individual of the seven Canaanite nations (Deut. 20:16)
    To exterminate the seven Canaanite nations from the land of Israel (Deut. 20:17)
    Always to remember what Amalek did (Deut. 25:17)
    That the evil done to us by Amalek shall not be forgotten (Deut. 25:19)
    To destroy the seed of Amalek (Deut. 25:19)

    The extent of extermination is described in the commandment Deut 20:16-18 which orders the Israelites to “not leave alive anything that breathes… completely destroy them …”.[27] Several scholars have characterized the exterminations as genocide.[28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37]
    Victims

    The targets of the extermination commandments were the seven Canaanite nations explicitly identified by God as targets in Deut 7:1-2 and Deut 20:16-18.[38] These seven tribes are Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. Most of these descended from the biblical figure Canaan, as described in Gen 10:15-18. In addition, two others tribes were subject to wars of extermination: Amalekites (1 Samuel 15:1-20)[39] and Midianites (Numbers 31:1-18). The extermination of the Canaanite nations is described primarily in the Book of Joshua (especially Joshua 10:28-42) which includes the Battle of Jericho described in Joshua 6:15-21.

    The instruction God gives in Deut 20:16-18 is for Israelites to exterminate “everything that breathes”, but the precise extent of the killing varied:[40] The instruction was made with respect to the Amalekites 1 Samuel 15:1-20, Canaanites (Battle of Jericho) Joshua 6:15-21, Canaanite nations Joshua 10:28-42, and Midianites Numbers 31:1-18.[38]

    Some scholars such as Van Wees conclude that the biblical accounts of extermination are exaggerated, fictional, or metaphorical.[41] In the archaeological community, the Battle of Jericho is very thoroughly studied, and the consensus of modern scholars is that the story of battle and the associated extermination are a pious fiction and did not happen as described in the Book of Joshua.[42] For example, the Book of Joshua describes the extermination of the Canaanite tribes, yet at a later time, Judges 1:1-2:5 suggests that the extermination was not complete.[43]

    Likewise, it is not clear if the historical Amalekites were exterminated or not. 1 Samuel 15:7-8 implies (“He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword.”) that – after Agag was also killed – the Amalekites were extinct, but in a later story in the time of Hezekiah, the Simeonites annihilated some Amalekites on Mount Seir, and settled in their place: “And five hundred of these Simeonites, led by Pelatiah, Neariah, Rephaiah and Uzziel, the sons of Ishi, invaded the hill country of Seir. They killed the remaining Amalekites who had escaped, and they have lived there to this day.” (1 Chr 4:42-43).[citation needed]
    As genocide

    This site jihadnews is appalling as it is and should be looking at all the extreme beliefs in the world because islam isn´t the only one.

    And for those who want to know I am not a christian, jew or muslim. I have no religion other than i believe in life and the right for everyone to have a life. I believe religion, nationalism and of course greed are the biggest problems of the modern world. We are all just human beings.

    • dumbledoresarmy says

      Jul 19, 2014 at 9:43 am

      Whataboutery will get you nowhere.

      Pretending that Christianity and Judaism are indistinguishable from Islam, or “just as bad as Islam”, or that the problem is “monotheism”, is also stupid; because it’s actually wrong.

      Can you honestly say that Jesus is no different from Mohammed? No different at all? Taught nothing different? Did nothing different?

      Can you please read the Gospels, and then the Sira of Ibn Ishaq as translated either by Guillaume or by Muir, and then come back to us and still tell us that Jesus was *exactly the same* as Mohammed, and taught the same things, and that if someone set out to imitate and obey Jesus they would do exactly the same sorts of things as someone who set out to imitate and obey Mohammed?

      And if you are really from Iceland, can you really with a straight face tell us that your pre-Christian polytheist ancestors were pacifists, sweet and gentle and non-violent and tolerant?

      • John C. Barile says

        Jul 19, 2014 at 10:11 am

        DDA, you have made short work of this “From Iceland” poster’s foolishness.

        • Wellington says

          Jul 19, 2014 at 11:03 am

          Yes, John C., dda very much put this rube in his place. What a lot of extra silly tu quoque reasoning by “From Iceland.” Well, silly people are everywhere.

    • Mirren10 says

      Jul 19, 2014 at 11:44 am

      Dumbledoresarmy has already magnificently shot down in flames your silly and unthinking attempt at moral equivalence between Christianity and islam.

      However, I would like to add a few points.

      First, your quotes from the Old Testament. The Old Testament is in many ways a *history* of the Jewish people, and is far more often *descriptive*, rather than *prescriptive*, unlike the koran, which, according to mohammedans, is the unchanging word of ‘allah’, and its commands, such as “kill all the Jews and Christians, and all infidels, until the world is only for allah”, are *prescriptive*, for all mohammedans, in the past, the present, and the future.

      There is *nothing* in the New Testament that mandates the murder of non-Christians, or that they should be *coerced* into accepting Christianity at the point of the sword.

      islam is the *only* religion in the world today, that demands this, as you can clearly see, if you take the trouble to remove your self-imposed blindfold, and look around you.

      Then, if we accept your contention that you are not a mohammedan, (which I personally take with a **huge** pinch of salt) can you tell us why you have no comment to make on the vicious and vile acts of murder, rape, torture, destruction, stoning of women etc, carried out by mohammedans daily, and chronicled, not only on this website, but even in the msm ? Have you *no* moral compass, at all ?

      You say this website is ‘appalling’, because it chronicles the vicious acts of mohammedans, worldwide. Why ? Because you would prefer not to know, because such things upset your carefully blinkered view of the world ? Rest assured, if islam ever gains supremacy in the world, people such as you will*not* be exempt from its murderous mandates.

      • Mirren10 says

        Jul 19, 2014 at 12:01 pm

        And finally, you complain that islam is not the only extreme religion in the world, and that Jihad Watch should be looking at the other extreme beliefs in the world.

        OK, where are they ? Where are the Christians who are murdering, torturing, raping, destroying others, in the name of their faith ? Where are the Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Zoarastrians, Jews, et al, doing likewise ?

        If you can find them, come back and tell us, and I will readily condemn them, as I condemn the acts of the mohammedans. But you won’t, and can’t find them, because they simply dont ‘exist.

        If you are *not* a mohammedan, then you are clearly one of those very foolish and naive leftist, apologists for islam, who thinks you will somehow not be crushed in your turn, if islam ever manages to hold power over the rest of us.

        Look at the evidence, and try to use the brain I assume you possess.

        • From Iceland says

          Jul 21, 2014 at 10:59 am

          My brain is doing just fine, how about your´s?

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_extremist_terrorism

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_religious_terrorism

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence

    • Jan Fourowls says

      Jul 20, 2014 at 12:15 am

      To “From Iceland” – All non-Muslims who oppose Islam have a common ground of argument against the religious evil Muslims practice.

      The fact remains that other non-Islamic religions as practiced from the twentieth century forward (Christianity, Judaism, Sikhism, Buddhism, etc.) — unlike Islam — do not systematically instill in their adherents the lust based on inflammatory directions of supposed scripture to torture, kill, murder and otherwise enact genocide on the “non-believers.” Also the scriptures of religions other than Islam in fact, despite your few quotes out of context for the pre-Jesus part of the Bible, do not support the torture, deception and killing that the Quran and Hadith books as scriptures direct Muslims to commit as atrocities against non-Muslims.

      The atrocities directed by Islam’s scriptures are considered major and heinous crimes in all modern countries like the US and UK with a civilized Judeo-Christian Western heritage. We call it terrorism for a reason. It takes Islam’s replacement of the rule of Western law with the abomination of Sharia law to approve the evil that the Quran directs Muslims to do.

      Humanity is fallen and religion can be used, as have atheist idealist philosophies gone humanly wrong (e.g., Mao’s murderous human exterminations in China’s “Cultural Revolution,” Stalin’s mass murders in communist post-WWII Russia), of course, as a reason for people to behave badly. Arguably the references you make to the “old testament” pre-Jesus Bible reflect God seeking to work with the relatively best of a very violent group of tribes in the Middle East, seeking the lesser of evils, and allowing them the free will to write their history through their lens as the Jewish people who had been enslaved by their enemies (Eqypt) and had to fight their way out of aggressive corners time and again against enemies who were even more violent than they were. Some of them turned authentically to God, repented, behaved better, and as the Bible confirms in far more places that the passages you’ve taken out of context, their prophets speaking for God warned the Jewish people to stop sinning. For instance, as one of countless examples:

      “Remember this, fix it in mind,
      take it to heart, you rebels. …

      Listen to me, you stubborn-hearted,
      you who are far from righteousness…
      For I desire mercy, not sacrifice,
      and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.”
      Isaiah 46:8, 12; Hosea 6:6 (NIV)

      People evolved socioculturally in the Middle East, war after brutal war, and finally in my religious view, despite humanity’s continuing fallen nature and imperfections, God loved human beings enough to send Jesus Christ, fully human, born as a baby through a woman, and fully divine, so He could forgive sins and extend an eternal relationship with God to all who would accept the gift.

      As a Christian I believe that God sent Jesus precisely because even Judaism, as the best religion of that still somewhat barbaric time in the world overall, proved itself as not enough to redeem humanity from evil. Constantinian and similarly war-making negative influences took Christianity down a rocky path for several hundred years, but faithful followers of Jesus persisted. Islam by my reading of the entire Bible arose next as the 7th century hate-ridden and demonic answer to Christianity and God’s original covenant people, the Jews, from whose human lineage Jesus was born, and Islam seeks to destroy Christians and Jews, as present-day history of Muslim behavior is still proving.

      Certainly I don’t take my exegetical understanding of the Bible in its entire context, old through new testaments, inspired over milleniums, from wikipedia when wikipedia’s ideological bias leaks off the page as true at your link. Wikipedia is not immune from pro-Islam taqiyya practitioners, obviously. Because the Quran as inspired mainly during one short period of the 7th century by a murdering misogynist is so obviously evil to its core from page to page and on every page as written, the best if false way for pro-Islam apologists to attack Christianity is by taking the old testament part of the Bible out of its historical context and ignoring everything in the new testament of the Bible and everything about Jesus Christ as written there. How predictable.)

      Nothing in the “new testament” of the Bible and no words and conduct of Jesus or any of His original followers, male and female, can be turned into a Quran-like prescription for torture, murder, genocide or for that matter any violence at all except self-defense or defense of others (which would include “just war” as modern-day Christian and other ethical scholars explain the matter, and as for example justified Christians fighting vigorously and strategically to end fascism during WWI). You no doubt know this because you did not quote from the Bible’s new testament which Christians and not Jews include in the Christian Bible.

      Yes, humanity is fallen and the religion of Islam (with its vile war-crimes manual for Muslims to enact torture and genocide against Christians and Jews as well as misogyny against all females), the misplaced nationalism [when not based on holy undiluted Judeo-Christian or other genuinely democratic values including free speech and freedom of (and from) religion], and of course the sin of greed are very big problems of the modern world. We are all just human beings, and that is why we all need a Savior.

      As the new testament of the Bible somewhat famously says: “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” Romans 3:23 (KJV).

  18. ploome says

    Jul 19, 2014 at 5:09 pm

    total TV blackout

    why?

    • Davegreybeard says

      Jul 19, 2014 at 7:54 pm

      @ ploome
      “total TV blackout
      why?”

      Because Christians are to be sacrificed on the altar of PC/MC in our new, so empathetic, “Humanist” post Christian era.

      Their screams of agony as they are tortured, killed and raped are to be ignored, cause really, they got it comin due to colonialism and the Crusades and all, don cha know.

  19. Lorem Bull says

    Jul 19, 2014 at 5:31 pm

    Not a bad idea to implement the jizya model on muslims living in Christian countries. It would partly solve immigration issues and relieve some of the burden on social welfare.

    Now to market the idea. Oh I know. We’ll invent a new word to scare those who’d oppose the scheme: “jizyaphobes”. No? Too hackneyed?

  20. Jan Fourowls says

    Jul 20, 2014 at 12:39 am

    It definitely helps to laugh and that was your intent (right?) – not that there are any “Christian” nations nowadays or at least not the U.S. by pronouncement early on of POTUS: http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/2576-obama-america-not-a-christian-nation

    But even if our leadership still considered us a Christian nation, many and I hope most who believe in a Bible-based version of Christianity would not impose tax or other persecutions for reasons of a person’s faith because to do so would be decidedly un-Christian.

    Actually your phrase jizyaphobic is a good description of what all non-Muslims should be about overt Muslim conquest and Sharia law.

    If predictably labeled “Islamophobic,” we could say, “Actually, we’re also jizyaphobic. Jizya is something rational people would fear, just like Islam itself. Can we tell you a little about the horror that happens to Christians and Jews subject to Islamic jizya when Muslims take over in a city, county, region or country? Can we tell you about what the Islamic State just did to persecute Christians with jizya in the city of Mosul? Can we talk about how easy it is for anybody to come illegally over the southern borders of the U.S. now that POTUS has basically unsecured them, or just fly into LaGuardia or O’Hare or LAX now that there’s no longer an anti-terrorism No-Fly List?”

    What a conversation!

    • Jan Fourowls says

      Jul 20, 2014 at 12:40 am

      Above to “Lorem Bull.”

  21. sonia says

    Jul 20, 2014 at 4:06 am

    Christian must see the threats and leave Iraq, Gaza and Syria in order for God to fully destroy these countries.

    Jesus said he will not lose one of his flock!

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