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Jihad Watch

Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

UK schools: Christians lie and wives must have sex or go to hell

Jul 19, 2014 9:58 am By Robert Spencer

ParkViewSchoolThe children were just taught standard Islam. Muhammad said: “If a husband calls his wife to his bed [i.e. to have sexual relation] and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning” (Bukhari 4.54.460).

He also said: “By him in Whose Hand lies my life, a woman can not carry out the right of her Lord, till she carries out the right of her husband. And if he asks her to surrender herself [to him for sexual intercourse] she should not refuse him even if she is on a camel’s saddle” (Ibn Majah 1854).

So given the state of the British government and culture, the administrators of these schools should have been congratulated and told to carry on with their fine work.

“Christians lie and wives must have sex or go to hell, Trojan Horse pupils told,” by Steven Swinford, the Telegraph, July 18, 2014 (thanks to all who sent this in):

Children were taught that all Christians are liars and attempts were made to introduce Sharia law in classrooms as part of an alleged ‘Trojan Horse’ takeover plot of Birmingham schools, an inquiry has found.

The inquiry commissioned by Birmingham City Council found evidence of religious extremism in 13 schools as school governors and teachers tried to promote and enforce radical Islamic values.

Schools put up posters warning children that if they didn’t pray they would “go to hell”, Christmas was cancelled and girls were taught that women who refused to have sex with their husbands would be “punished” by angels “from dusk to dawn”.

The report found that the extremism went unchecked because the council “disastrously” prioritised community cohesion over “doing what is right”.

It concluded that there was a “determined effort” by “manipulative” governors to introduce “unacceptable” practices, “undermine” head teachers and deny students a broad and balanced education.

Sir Albert Bore, Birmingham’s leader, apologised for the council’s handling of the scandal.

He said: “The actions of a few, including some within the council, have undermined the reputation of our great city.

“We have previously shied away from tackling this problem out of a misguided fear of being accused of racism.”

A separate review by Peter Clarke, the former counter-terrorism chief, found evidence of “co-ordinated, deliberate and sustained” attempts to introduce an “intolerant and aggressive Islamic ethos” in schools.

The review, which was commissioned by the Department for Education, found that the schools were trying to impose “segregationist attitudes and practices of a hardline and politicised strain Sunni Islam”.

Birmingham City Council’s report found no evidence of a “conspiracy” to promote “violent extremism or radicalisation” values, but was still highly critical.

A detailed summary of evidence suggested that there was an attempt to introduce Sharia law at the Al-Fuqan school, and when a woman was recommended for a job on individual suggested a “man with a beard” was needed.

At the Golden Hillock School a teacher allegedly told children at an assembly “not to listen to Christians as they were all liars”. The incident was referred to counter-terrorism police. One teacher at the school also reportedly told children they were “lucky to be Muslims and not ignorant like Christians and Jews.”

At Nansen School the study of French was replaced by the study of Arabic and Islamic religious assemblies were reinstated. Christmas and Diwali celebrations were councils, and children were not allowed to use a doll to represent Jesus in a nativity play. A total of 28 female teaching assistants were dismissed.

At the Oldknow academy, children were told at an assembly that they should not send Christmas cards and that Mary was not the mother of Jesus.

Odd. Mary is depicted as the mother of Jesus in the Qur’an. This report is probably wrong: probably the students were told that Mary is not the mother of God.

Children were asked whether they believed in Christmas and encouraged to chant “no we don’t”.

At the Park View Academy children were taught that “if a woman said no to sex with her husband then angels would punish her from dusk till dawn”. Girls were taught that a “good” Muslim woman wears a hijab and ties up her hair.

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Comments

  1. Uri says

    Jul 19, 2014 at 10:07 am

    “By him in Whose Hand lies my life…”
    –Mo the devil

    ——————–
    Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, “You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.” But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your “Yes” be “Yes,” and your “No,” “No.” For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.”

    Jesus

    • Shane says

      Jul 20, 2014 at 9:29 am

      The dhimmi liberals in Europe are allowing Muslims to introduce barbaric Sharia law and to promote Islam in public schools. They do not let this happen when it comes to Christianity. It is clear that traitorous liberals are helping Muslims to destroy Western Civilization.

  2. Edward Cline says

    Jul 19, 2014 at 10:08 am

    Will someone please instruct me on how one can have sex in a camel’s saddle? Sounds a bit awkward, but if the Big Mo said it was necessary, it must be possible.

    • Gail Griffin says

      Jul 19, 2014 at 1:46 pm

      Maybe it was not on the camel at the time!

    • Huck Folder says

      Jul 20, 2014 at 12:47 am

      Saddle = vagina?

    • Dee Harris says

      Jul 20, 2014 at 6:23 am

      Perhaps, if the husband is kind, he will lift her off the camel, and then…

      • Bozzy says

        Jul 20, 2014 at 7:48 am

        Reminds me of the old joke:-
        Why is a camel called the ship of the desert?
        ……….Because it’s full of Arab semen.

  3. jewdog says

    Jul 19, 2014 at 10:08 am

    I like Islam! See, Jews lie too, though maybe I’m just “ignorant”.

  4. BJ Drwenski says

    Jul 19, 2014 at 10:20 am

    I swear that Muslim men just make it up as they go!

    • Aardvark says

      Jul 19, 2014 at 11:54 am

      That would be because Mo is considered to be perfect, and to be emulated in every way.

      And he certainly made it up as he went along! We even have Aisha’s testimony to that fact!

      • Jay Boo says

        Jul 19, 2014 at 1:59 pm

        Have Mohammad’s mad Muslims no shame at all?

        Imagine a man (without an army) claiming to be a prophet saying
        ” “If a husband calls his wife to his bed [i.e. to have sexual relation] and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning” (Bukhari 4.54.460).”

        He would be mocked out of Mecca all the way to Medina

        • BunyipBill says

          Jul 21, 2014 at 9:06 am

          JB, MoMo was mocked (run-out ) of Mecca ended up in Medina from where he dispensed his “wisdom” and initiated his barbaric laws.

        • ichabod says

          Jul 21, 2014 at 10:08 am

          Indeed he was. However it was in Medina that Mohammed assembled his first army and went back to Mecca and laid waste to them with the sword.

          If no one can see that mockery it a source of great bitterness and offence and will of itself lead to an even greater inspiration to Islam, then we have learned nothing from our great wisdom of imagining because we understand a few ideas about this religious system called Islam, we actually understand it.

          If we have the ability to see that it was mockery that led to Medina and do not have to same wisdom to realise that Medina led to Mecca and the start of Islam, we have no need of anything. The very heart of Islam is established in this simple expression of Mecca to Medina and back to Mecca. Yet we do not see it and we go on mocking and insulting Muslims without any sense of the depth of the offence.

          The present day Islamic calendar is based on an approximate start date of 622 when Mohammed and his few followers left for Medina. At the time this was called Yathrib. So important in their minds was this date that it later became know as the Hijrah which itself corresponds to the fifth pillar of Islamic faith named the Hajj. The correspondence is precisely found in the humiliation of being driven from Mecca and the anger and fury with which they came back.

          Today, Muslims go to Mecca as a matter of reaffirming this central and essential tenet of their beliefs. It is the very essence of Islamic thinking. It means to wreak destruction and the revenge of Allah and his prophet on the heads of those who mock, deride and humiliate their beliefs and their faith. For Mecca is still means complete and total Islamic Sharia’h Law and an imposition which is absolute.

          The only reason I am mentioning this is because unless we take Islam seriously in all of its parts we will end up simply fuelling its ascendancy in our own nations. It cannot be contained by insults and derision.

          Jay Boo said:

          “Imagine a man (without an army) claiming to be a prophet saying
          ” “If a husband calls his wife to his bed [i.e. to have sexual relation] and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning” (Bukhari 4.54.460).”

          He would be mocked out of Mecca all the way to Medina.”

          So he would Jay Boo and so he was. Then imagine a man who finds his ascendancy in Medina and returns to Mecca to conquer it and subjugate it for 1400 years. Today in North Iraq and parts of Syria a caliphate is forming which is constant with the original activities of the first Caliph after the death of Mohammed. Huge numbers of Muslims defected from Islam after the death of Mohammed and in just two years they were all subjugated back to Islam with the sword. Today the Islamic State is brutally subjugating Shia Moslems in the same spirit in which the first Caliph subjugated the apostates in his day. The “spiritual” implications of this are truly profound for Muslims and it is only a matter of time before this brutality is seen and comprehended as the hand of Allah by even moderate Muslims once they see their beloved Islam is benefitted. Yet we spend our time making sexual jokes and innuendo as though this had nothing to do with us.

          What madness!

        • gravenimage says

          Jul 21, 2014 at 7:56 pm

          ichabod wrote:

          Indeed he was. However it was in Medina that Mohammed assembled his first army and went back to Mecca and laid waste to them with the sword.

          If no one can see that mockery it a source of great bitterness and offence and will of itself lead to an even greater inspiration to Islam…
          ………………………………..

          I’m afraid your history is a bit off—the “Prophet” did triumphantly return to Mecca, but it was one of the few places he *didn’t* put to the sword (though, of course, the threat was always there).

          Far more concerning is you implication that it was mockery that drove Islam to become such a vicious creed.

          How many ideologies, groups, and individuals have been mocked through the ages?

          Scientologists are mocked. Sarah Palin is mocked. Thomas Kincaid (the “Painter of Light”) was mocked. Carrot Top is mocked.

          Christianity has been widely mocked. Hassidim get mocked. Darwin was mocked. Guys named “Bubba” are mocked.

          Some of these people and things are mocked with good reason, some rather unfairly, and some of the mockery says something more negative about the mockers than anything else.

          But so what? Sarah Palin isn’t about to shoot up the offices of MSNBC. John Travolta isn’t going to go on a killing spree the next time pokes fun at L. Ron Hubbard. Catholics don’t massacre people who laugh at jokes about the Papal tiara.

          The fact is that Muhammed was a humorless creep who had his critics murdered and passed that homicidal touchiness on to his vicious followers—that doesn’t present a good reason to respect Islam as a result.

          Why *should* we respect Islam? There is, in truth, nothing to respect about it—and it is as ludicrous as it is appalling.

          “Scholarly” disputes on how a Muslim should wipe his butt? The belief that the devil lives up your nose? Fatwas issued against eating falafels, because they are an “innovation” that didn’t exist in the Dark Ages when the “Prophet” lived (but using modern rocket launchers, of course, are a-ok).

          These things *should* be mocked. It is, in fact, *immoral* to respect child marriage, “Honor Killing”, and the mass-slaughter of Infidels.

          Moreover, your implication that Islam would not be violent if it were not mocked is ludicrous. I don’t believe the Persians or Byzantium mocked Islam before pious Muslims set their sights on conquering them.

          And if your implication is that we are apt to lose to those we mock, wrong again. During WWII, we relentlessly mocked Hitler, Mussolini, and Tojo, along with all their nasty followers—there were great Bugs Bunny cartoons lampooning the Nazis, and “The Führer’s Face” was a favorite on the radio.

          The *only* mistake one can make with mockery of a powerful evil is to believe that mockery is *all* that is necessary.

          Again, during WWII we *fought* as well as making fun. Just because something is ludicrous does not means we should regard it solely as a joke.

          More:

          If we have the ability to see that it was mockery that led to Medina and do not have to same wisdom to realise that Medina led to Mecca and the start of Islam, we have no need of anything. The very heart of Islam is established in this simple expression of Mecca to Medina and back to Mecca. Yet we do not see it and we go on mocking and insulting Muslims without any sense of the depth of the offence.
          ………………………………..

          The fact is that I—and all decent Infidels—find Islam itself to be offensive.

          Islam *deserves* to be mocked. The idea that if we bow and scrape and “respect” Islam that pious Muslims won’t target us is *total crap*. All one has to do is look at the state of cowed dhimmis in Dar-al-Islam.

          Dhimmis *don’t dare* openly mock Islam or Muslims—does this keep them safe from Muslim depredations? It *does not*.

          In fact, if we kowtow to Islam and appease them, we *just embolden* supremacist Muslims.

          It is Muslims who are trying to criminalize the mocking or criticism of Islam—we have to say *NO* to this, and in no uncertain terms.

          We render ourselves defenseless if we cannot so much as criticize Islam—and yes, that includes mockery.

          More:

          The only reason I am mentioning this is because unless we take Islam seriously in all of its parts we will end up simply fuelling its ascendancy in our own nations. It cannot be contained by insults and derision.
          ………………………………..

          Not solely. But it can be contained even less by a slinking “respect” shown to a vicious and ludicrous creed that deserves none. As I mentioned re WWII, mocking evil and taking it seriously enough to fight are *not* contradictory.

          More:

          …we spend our time making sexual jokes and innuendo as though this had nothing to do with us.

          What madness!
          ………………………………..

          What leads you to believe that those at Jihad Watch fail to take Islam seriously? Most of us here can oppose Islam, mock it, and comprehend how evil it is *all at the same time*.

          Certainly, Robert Spencer is more than up for the job.

        • ichabod says

          Jul 21, 2014 at 8:04 pm

          gravenimage
          July 21, 2014 at 7:56 pm
          ichabod wrote:

          Indeed he was. However it was in Medina that Mohammed assembled his first army and went back to Mecca and laid waste to them with the sword.

          If no one can see that mockery it a source of great bitterness and offence and will of itself lead to an even greater inspiration to Islam…
          ………………………………..

          I’m afraid your history is a bit off—the “Prophet” did triumphantly return to Mecca, but it was one of the few places he *didn’t* put to the sword (though, of course, the threat was always there).

          You are correct in your point about the nature of the return to Mecca thanks for correcting me. As to the rest there is nothing to say.

        • gravenimage says

          Jul 22, 2014 at 6:47 pm

          Ichabod—why is there “nothing to say”?

      • Jerry says

        Jul 21, 2014 at 5:00 am

        Mo was the perfect shite.

        Still is.

  5. tpellow says

    Jul 19, 2014 at 10:24 am

    Supplementary.

    “There WAS deliberate, sustained action to introduce Islamic ethos into Birmingham schools, says former counter-terror chief – but the council’s own report still doesn’t accept there was a Trojan Horse plot”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696805/Hardline-Islam-views-forced-pupils-deliberate-sustained-action-Trojan-Horse-schools-says-leaked-report.html#ixzz37tyBtpVy

    • Huck Folder says

      Jul 20, 2014 at 2:13 am

      Cameron’s new Solicitor General has islamophilic ‘form’. He tried to hush up an attempted murder at his school, by THIRTEEN thugs against one:

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2698664/New-law-chief-guilty-misconduct-race-hate-trial-didn-t-tell-PM-Professional-misconduct-illicitly-getting-case-notes-involving-school-governor.html

      The Solicitor General’s ‘professional misconduct’ centred on a case where ‘reverse racism’ meant teachers allegedly turned a blind eye to ‘Asian’ gangs targeting white children at school.
      The policy was designed to protect an influx of 20 ‘ASIAN’ students whom teachers feared might be bullied when they arrived in 2005. In fact, as was later found by a serious case review, the reverse had taken place at the 1,450-pupil Ridgeway School in suburban Swindon.
      Liz Webster, whose son Henry was almost killed in an attack in January 2007, said: ‘Everyone knew what was going on at that school, that there was a culture of RACISM by the ASIAN students.
      ‘There had been a number of incidents. One boy had his nose broken by the same gang that attacked Henry. ‘Police knew about all it. But teachers wouldn’t deal with this reverse racism. They had this perception that the ‘ASIAN’ kids were being racially abused when it was the other way around.
      ‘They created an ‘ASIAN’ safe zone at the school and kept claiming the ‘ASIAN’ kids were being victimised. There was a fear at the school of being perceived as having a racial problem. They simply didn’t know what to do about it.’
      Henry was 15 when, in January 2007, he was set upon by a group of ‘ASIAN’ youths who called themselves ‘ASIAN INVASION’.

      Bloody hell, ‘ASIAN INVASION’ says it all!

      “Henry was punched, kicked and hit six times with a claw hammer in a vicious attack by the group that lasted about a minute. He suffered three skull fractures – the hammer went into the fluid around his brain – and he had surgery to save his life.
      Seven ‘young men’ were convicted of wounding Henry with intent to cause him grievous bodily harm. Five were convicted of conspiracy. Another admitted violent disorder. They were given custodial (jail) sentences ranging from eight months to eight years. Others received SUSPENDED sentences of up to 18 months. ONLY FOUR were PUPILS at the school.”

      Sounds more like attempted murder. And thirteen to one, what do you call that? mohammedan odds?

      Wasif Khan, 18, Amjad Qazi, 19, Nazrul Amin, 19 and four younger teenagers, all from Swindon, were all convicted of GBH.
      Khan was sentenced to eight years in prison, and Qazi to a year. Amin was sentenced to 18 months.
      Four defendants from Swindon, who cannot be named because of their ages, were given 18-month, 12-month and eight-month detention and training orders.
      Aqduss Rauf, 20; Bilal Yakub, 18; Roubel Meah, 20; Mahbub Ali, 19; and Kamran Khan, 24 all from Swindon, were all given sentences ranging from 12 months to two-and-a-half years.
      Another unnamed teenager was given eight months after admitting violent disorder.

      So there you have it thirteen Sikhs, or were they Japanese, or Chinese? Not one mohammed among them. When are the decent, honest Asians going to demand an end to that Asian charade? Why are they always tarred with the same filthy mohammedan brush? Surely to goodness there are Associations of those honest Asians to stand up and say: “NOT IN OUR NAME!”

      If cair has bullied or bribed AP into dropping the word ISLAMIST, why can’t honest Asians bully them into dropping that libelous euphemism?

      And the UK STILL hasn’t cottoned on to RACISM from other than white people. Google “Kriss Donald” to read about a case even more sickening than this.

      And utterly useless, or more likely traitorous Camoron says the British should be more like mohammedans! That might just be more sickening than the attacks by zombie savages. All the appeasers and enablers are ACCESSORIES to all the hate crimes committed by the worshippers of mo. Including Brian Cnut Hoff.

  6. Michael Copeland says

    Jul 19, 2014 at 10:43 am

    Roll on the day when journalists discover that the shock-horror “segregationist attitudes and practices of a hardline and politicised strain Sunni Islam” are just normal basic Islam, as found in Koran and Hadith, that is, at the ROOT (Latin “radix”) of the ideology. “Radical” is basic. See “Tony Blair: “We Seem Blind”:
    http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/index.php/home/root/news-libertygb/6418-tony-blair-we-seem-blind

    • jewdog says

      Jul 19, 2014 at 10:53 am

      Yes, but do you think Tony Blair would be where he is today if he spoke the unadorned truth? Maybe the parks department might find him a job, or animal control.

    • PRCS says

      Jul 19, 2014 at 10:56 am

      What do you think the phrase “radical Islam” means to most people?

      The root of Islam? Its radix?

      Or do most of our fellow filthy kuffar, after repeated assertions, believe it means that “a tiny minority of Muslims” follows a twisted and perverted version of THE religion of peace?

  7. Jay Boo says

    Jul 19, 2014 at 1:36 pm

    Have any of the Christian bashing official (Atheist Organizations) spoken out on this or are they funded by donations of Muslims and Leftists.

  8. Rob says

    Jul 19, 2014 at 4:10 pm

    Isn’t ‘Pakistani Origin’ the same descriptor that is used for the rape gangs targeting underage and vulnerable British girls.

    • Mirren10 says

      Jul 19, 2014 at 7:12 pm

      ”Isn’t ‘Pakistani Origin’ the same descriptor that is used for the rape gangs targeting underage and vulnerable British girls”.

      Yes. For ‘Pakistani Origin’, read; **mohammedan**.

  9. Jan Fourowls says

    Jul 19, 2014 at 8:53 pm

    So what are we doing about it to use our words for anything but preaching to the choir here?

    Here’s another of my comment series unlikely to be posted today —

    “Your [http://wamc.org/post/mass-us-senator-markey-weighs-ukraine-and-gaza] failure to “approve” the comment below would only prove that you’re part of the TTHT (Taqiyya Trojan Horse Tactics) brigade.

    Consistent with the subtext of his remarks here, Senator Edward Markey, Democrat from Massachusetts, also and not coincidentally on the U.S. Senate’s Committee on Foreign Relations, is co-sponsoring S. 2219 with New York Democrat Congressman Hakeem Jeffries sponsoring H.R. 3878. See https://www.facebook.com/ConcernedAmericansAgainstTheTakeoverOfAmerica/posts/529458160496134. Senator Markey by his remarks about the plane shot down over the Ukraine and about Gaza utterly fails to disclose: (1) the likelihood that Ukrainian Muslim terrorists (with the most to gain from the chaos, and also being unwelcome to non-Muslim “separatists” who know from experience about Islamic terror tactics and are fighting in self-defense against the Muslim terrorists) misused stolen Russian equipment to shoot down the plane, or (2) the ongoing deception and violence of Hamas as a terrorist organization by its 1988 charter (never abrogated), currently requiring its own soldier-citizens in Gaza under Hamas threat to be human shields to Israel’s cross-fire in self-defense after Hamas initiated aggression. Senator Markey is a hypocrite and oligarch who like POTUS betrays the American people in foreign press commentary as well as in Washington, D.C.”

    As I get informally, behind-the-scenes censored more and more on the internet, I am emailing all my personal contacts and lists with messages like the following:

    “Hope you’re having a beautiful Saturday! Thinking of you, wishing only good to all you love.

    This email forwards information and a guide to action for anybody who might be similarly moved under rapidly escalating Islamist geopolitical encroachments and new risks to Americans by stealth jihad. We now face a new potential to have our Constitutional freedoms eroded internally through elected officials following the overtly demoralizing terrorism of 9/11, Fort Hood and the Boston Marathon Bombing. (The fact that some legislation tracking websites publish a small likelihood of this anti-freedom legislation passing could be designed to lull us into inaction. In a “taqiyya” world, nothing said or printed can be taken at face value, only what is done or not done.)

    There’s a lot of information in the forwarded email. In summary without the provided context, Congressman Hakeem Jeffries sponsoring H.R. 3878 is a Democrat, New Yorker and Muslim.

    His co-sponsor in the Senate for S. 2219, Senator Edward Markey, is a Democrat and Liberal from Massachusetts, also and not coincidentally on the U.S. Senate’s Committee on Foreign Relations.

    It continues to go increasingly wrong in the UK where Muslims and their apologists who are politically prominent citizens twist more and more control of government into alignment with principles of Sharia law instead of the rule of Western civilization’s law. In America we still have the Constitution which the UK lacks, and which our forebears fought the British to obtain. Congressman Hakeem Jeffries’ bill, aided and abetted by traitorous Senator Markey, is an end-run around the Constitution that many bloggers I read see as a “line in the sand” we should not allow our nation to cross.

    I hope and pray Americans will not believe falsely “it cannot happen here” and by inaction not even let their elected leaders know we object as a patriotic people.

    And now I’m going to go enjoy the rest of my Saturday while I’m still free to do so!”

  10. gravenimage says

    Jul 19, 2014 at 10:49 pm

    UK schools: Christians lie and wives must have sex or go to hell
    ………………………………….

    In other words, Muslims are teaching little girls and boys that *marital rape is a sacrament*.

    And this is, of course, just the tip of the iceberg.

    I’m so glad this “Trojan Horse” plot was finally exposed—but it was going on *for twenty years* before it was.

    And does anyone here believe that this is not *still* going on in British schools? I hope this represents a turning point, and that more decent British Infidels are finally waking up.

  11. Cindy MCcoy says

    Jul 20, 2014 at 4:30 am

    Man this is the nuttiest group of folks I have ever heard of. If I was a parent at that school I would come unglued and not stand for it. I would NOT let them tell my kids this kind of crap!!!! If I needed I would pull them out of school.

  12. paddy says

    Jul 20, 2014 at 10:28 am

    my muslim bitch is quite happy to take it wherever i stick it

    • Jay Boo says

      Jul 20, 2014 at 11:34 am

      paddy
      That is a

      TROLL TYPE comment

  13. doreva says

    Jul 20, 2014 at 2:33 pm

    …as i learn more about the koran i am coming to see it is a dirty book…where else would you find the story of a nine year old girl trying to wash the “shot spots” from her 40 year old “husband” off her dress before she goes to “mosque”????? hmmm???

  14. doreva says

    Jul 20, 2014 at 2:37 pm

    the more i learn about what’s in the koran the more i see it is a “dirty book”…the making sacred of an account of a nine year old girl trying to wash off the “shot spots” left on her dress by her 40 year old “husband”, so she won’t “shame herself” at mosque….

    • gravenimage says

      Jul 20, 2014 at 3:40 pm

      Yes, Dorevea—that image is utterly appalling.

      Just one small matter—the pedophile “Prophet” wasn’t forty when he began raping little Aisha—he was in his mid-50s.

    • dumbledoresarmy says

      Jul 21, 2014 at 7:41 am

      Actually, strictly speaking, that’s not in the Quran; it’s in the Hadiths.

      • ichabod says

        Jul 21, 2014 at 7:56 am

        The difference between the Qur’an, Sunna’h and a’Hadith is the difference between Sacred Text, Bearing witness of Sacred Texts as per the mouth of Mohammed and bearing witness of Mohammed himself by his friends and companions.

        Sharia’h sums the whole of these things up and makes of them an indistinguishable reality as far as the application is concerned. So for example stoning adulterers to death was expressly excluded from the Qur’anic text due to a lack of verifiable witnesses that Mohammed said that adulterers were to be stoned to death. Whereas a’Hadith permits it according to Jurisprudence as part of the Sharia’h process of Islamic development of Law because his companions who survived his death say he said it.

        There are other distinctions which attend to the Qur’an which sets it apart from the Sunna’h and a’Hadith but this is either seen in a context of believing that the Qur’an is in fact a direct work of the literal pen of Allah, written in heaven physically and which descended by the hand of Gabriel on the Night of Power which corresponds to the end of Ramadan. In practical terms apart from the Sufi sects (mystical Islam) this distinction is largely held in that doctrinal context of the claim regarding the origination of the Qur’an itself, whereas practical applications of Islam take the form of Sharia’h.

        In this way of understanding the Islam the a’Hadith become more important that the Qur’an itself for day to day imposition and subjugation under Islamic Law.

      • doreva says

        Jul 21, 2014 at 12:28 pm

        thanks for the correction…regardless of where it comes from, the fact the event is “revered” shows the fundamental difference between islam and christian morality…instead of celebrating such a shameful thing, christians would be rightly ashamed that such a thing happened, even if it takes them a long time to get around to it (being properly ashamed). actually, it is my thinking that shame is a good thing, it’s a god given thing like knowing the difference between right and wrong. being able to feel shame is what makes us human beings. we should cherish that. oh, yes, another part of islam that i find is the making sacred of child abuse, and that is where they go on and on with praise, as if it’s something to be admired, when the girl Aisha was playing with her friends and the women of the household came and took her away to meet with the old man husband. the narrative has Aisha talking about how she was having an anxiety attack (of course, the narrative doesn’t say that, instead it makes it sound like her anxiety attack was something special in anticipation of the “great event”), and the womenfolk just mop down her sweaty face with a cloth (instead of protecting the child, which is what good mothers do).

        • gravenimage says

          Jul 22, 2014 at 7:33 pm

          Doreva wrote:

          actually, it is my thinking that shame is a good thing, it’s a god given thing like knowing the difference between right and wrong. being able to feel shame is what makes us human beings…
          ………………………

          I agree, Doreva—but it also makes a great deal of difference just what we consider shameful—and that depends on one’s values.

          Pious Muslims are hardly incapable of feeling shame—for instance, there is the recent case of the 10-year-old girl in Afghanistan who was raped by her own Mullah right in the Mosque.

          The child’s family considers the matter so shameful that they intend to Honor Kill *the victim*:

          “Afghanistan: Mullah rapes 10-year-old girl in mosque, her family plans honor killing for her, police return her to her family”

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/07/afghanistan-mullah-rapes-10-year-old-girl-in-mosque-her-family-plans-honor-killing-for-her-police-return-her-to-her-family

          The ability to feel shame is morally *essential*—but only if one is ashamed of falling short of one’s better nature.

          If one’s “moral code” is evil enough—as with Islam—one would almost be better off being completely amoral. Certainly, it is unlikely that one would be as consistently evil.

          But I very much agree with your point—all too many in the West today consider guilt to be “a useless emotion”—but if it leads to one reviewing their moral failings and committing to doing better in the future, then it is a very good thing indeed.

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