May these so-called Christians who go to Mass take these death threats and persecutions as their singular opportunity to consider whether an unbiblical re-sacrifice of Christ (which is what the Mass is) is worth dying for. It is not worth risking your life for heresy that cannot save you from the penalty of hell. It is trust in Jesus’ actual sacrifice that saves, nothing else. If you disagree with me, then you need to read both your Bible and my blog.
John C. Barilesays
You are so wrong Mark. The Mass is not a re-sacrifice of Our Lord, which took place in time and space, and yet transcends time and space. The Mass presents the ONE eternal offering of God the Son to God the Father, of that “Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” represented in a non-bloody way as a communal meal, a New Covenant sealed by a New Passover meal. The Mass is that very Sacrifice of Calvary that transcends time and place, so that we may partake of it.
Jay Boosays
John C. Barile
Mark is obviously not a Christian but merely a MUSLIM troll divider in disguise. If Mark were truly a Christian he would put Christ first while bearing witness to the suffering of Christians. Mark would prefer to have King Solomon’s sword cut us all in half to satiate his Muslim ego.
On a topic about the persecution of Christians the only one to benefit from changing the topic are MUSLIM trolls in disguise.
John C. Barilesays
I have closely studied and meditated on the Eucharistic Discourse in the Sixth Chapter of John for fifty years, brother.
John C. Barilesays
The Apostolic generation who were the close disciples of the Apostles, and the Apostles themselves affirmed belief in the Eucharist and in the Divine Liturgy, i.e., the Mass.
John C. Barilesays
The offering of Melchizedek, the Passover sacrifice, and the Manna from Heaven are types foreshadowing the Blessed Sacrament itself.
Bradamantesays
I don’t know where you got the idea that this is a website suitable for Catholic-bashing, but it is not. On this website, we pretty much stick together as members of a civilization founded on humanity, tolerance and respect for human dignity, and we respond with sympathy and concern for the victims of Islamic jihad, whatever their religions. If your response to seeing fellow Christians forced to flee for their lives is to attack Catholicism, perhaps you don’t yet understand the nature of the jihadist threat and why we’re reading this website.
A lot has been said by a few persons about my Mass comment. I now realize that this site is visited by nests of Catholics who think Catholicism is Christianity. To criticize the Mass is to be a Muslim? What an infantile, unreasonable accusation! I will be a Christian who criticizes both Islam and the Mass: false religions. And I will do so wherever and whenever I want. The Mass is a sin against God’s sacrifice that was made once and for all, a sin against the Son of God who even Mary has to be saved by. What do you think of that? God thinks no more highly of the Mass than he does of a suicide bombing.
John C. Barilesays
Brother–if I may presume to call you such–this site is the work of a Melkite-rite Catholic, Robert Spencer It saddens me to think that you wouldn’t bestow the fair name of Christian on me as I would upon you–that you wouldn’t think of so many other exemplary Christians, Catholic or Eastern Orthodox as fellow Christians.
John C. Barilesays
Robert Spencer’s host on Sun TV, Michael Coren, is Catholic.<
Bradamantesays
You think that God is just as offended by an incorrect ritual (as a Catholic, I don’t think the Mass is incorrect, but you obviously do) as by mass murder. Up until now, I didn’t think you could possibly be a Muslim, but one of the hallmarks of jihadists is that they think murder is no worse than belonging to the “wrong” version of a religion. That’s part of how they justify murdering people over doctrinal disagreements. In my opinion, if you’re confused enough that you think suicide bombing is no more offensive than a well-intentioned but misguided effort to honor God (since surely, even if you think the Mass is wrong, you can see that it’s well-intentioned), you really need to pray for guidance, and/or seek professional help.
John C. Barilesays
marc,
Are you so ignorant that you think we believe Mary Theotokos–the God-Bearer–had no need of salvation? Don’t you know that we hold Mary to have been saved by her son Our God by prevenient grace?
dumbledoresarmysays
Mate.
Ever heard of Asia Bibi? She’s a Pakistani *Catholic* Christian who is sitting in a horrible prison cell in Pakistan right now, on Death Row, because a bunch of mohammedan females, with whom she was working in the fields, decided to accuse her of “Blasphemy!!!!” after a discussion in which she said she preferred Jesus to Mohammed. That’s all.
She was beaten up by a mob who demanded that she convert to Islam. She refused; she continued to affirm her faith in Jesus. She was arrested, “tried” and condemned to death for “blasphemy” (because, you see, by implying that Jesus was better than Mohammed, she had “insulted” Mohammed). Her case was appealed; the Muslims are amusing themselves by playing cat and mouse with her. A Pakistani Christian politician was assassinated because he had publicly stood up for her. She has been sitting in prison, denied all but the briefest of visits by her family, for something like three years.
She is suffering for Christ. She has confessed his Name before men, and she has not denied Him.
And *you* would condemn her and say she was not a Christian at all????
Me (and I am not a Catholic by tradition; I would call myself an evangelical within the Anglican communion), *I* recognise Asia Bibi as my dearly-beloved Christian sister and I pray for her, often and often.
Fred Forrettsays
“Do this in memory of me.” — Jesus.
Un-biblical?
EYESOPENsays
Fred Forrett said: ““Do this in memory of me.” — Jesus. Un-biblical?”
There is more, Fred:
“Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.”
“He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.”
And at The Last Supper:
“TAKE THIS, ALL OF YOU, AND EAT OF IT, FOR THIS IS MY BODY, WHICH WILL BE GIVEN UP FOR YOU.”
” TAKE THIS, ALL OF YOU, AND DRINK FROM IT, FOR THIS IS THE CHALICE OF MY BLOOD, THE BLOOD OF THE NEW AND ETERNAL COVENANT, WHICH WILL BE POURED OUT FOR YOU AND FOR MANY FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS. DO THIS IN MEMORY OF ME. ”
As with all the Sacraments, Jesus is the primary act-er of the Eucharist. They are His hands (through the ordained minister) which grasp the bread and the chalice filled with wine. They are His words spoken in the first person through the priest. He is both the priest and the victim. The sacrifice of the Eucharist is the sacrifice of the Cross — it culminates in God being glorified and humanity being sanctified. As Christ gives Himself to us in the Eucharist, let us model our lives after His — one of self-gift and in so doing fall more in love with our Eucharistic Lord.
And note that although it would not be until the next day that Jesus Christ was crucified, he instituted the Sacrament of the Eucharist at The Last Supper because His act of sacrifice and redemption of humanity was – and remains – timeless.
I will not even bother to address this to “mark”, who seems so full of hate for the Church that Christ Himself created, that he can’t see straight. Oh well. Not my problem.
John C. Barilesays
You have fully and clearly stated the truth we hold; I could not have said it better. You touched on every point that I hoped to make.
gravenimagesays
mark wrote:
May these so-called Christians who go to Mass take these death threats and persecutions as their singular opportunity to consider whether an unbiblical re-sacrifice of Christ (which is what the Mass is)
……………………………
On another recent post mark was claiming that the Mass encouraged pedophilia.
I don’t really much care what mark’s wonky views on the Mass might be—but he is *woefully* misinformed if he believes that Muslims would refrain from murderously targeting Christians if only they stopped celebrating Mass.
The fact is that pious Muslims target *all* Infidels for oppression and violence—any small variations in their worship is irrelevant to supremacist Muslims.
rev gsays
I think that “historic homelands” is a misnomer. Remember Byzantium!
This will happen,not only in Iraq..Syria already did,almost all middle east are doing it. For now, The west still breath fresh and safe while their smart ‘anti-racism’ government put their own time bomb in their shelter..
Richiesays
It would be nice to see Islam driven out of the Christian lands of the Middle East, north Africa and Asia. When Muslims threaten to murder your family if you don’t pray to their demonic moon god, thats well past the time to fight back. The sick thing is the western media and governments totally side with the Muslims against the Christians, just as they are siding with the Muslims against the Jews
Is Obama funding the Muslim campaign to wipe out the Christians?
Richiesays
It would be nice to see Islam driven out of the Christian lands of the Middle East, north Africa and Asia. When Muslims threaten to murder your family if you don’t pray to their demonic moon god, thats well past the time to fight back. The sick thing is the western media and governments totally side with the Muslims against the Christians, just as they are siding with the Muslims against the Jews
Is Obama funding the Muslim campaign to wipe out the Christians?
Richiesays
oops, double post, feel free to delete
Boonedogsays
Very few horrific stories affect me the way this one did. I fell on my knees and prayed for this girl. God help her and the men and women trying to keep her safe.
A lot has been said by a few persons about my Mass comment. I now realize that this site is visited by nests of Catholics who think Catholicism is Christianity. To criticize the Mass is to be a Muslim? What an infantile, unreasonable accusation! I will be a Christian who criticizes both Islam and the Mass: false religions. And I will do so wherever and whenever I want. The Mass is a sin against God’s sacrifice that was made once and for all, a sin against the Son of God who even Mary has to be saved by. What do you think of that? God thinks no more highly of the Mass than he does of a suicide bombing.
Bradamantesays
If you were on here bashing Protestants, or Hindus, or Jews or Buddhists in such vile terms, I’d object just as strongly.
This site is about resisting a doctrine that teaches that people deserve to be killed for belonging to the “wrong” religion. And you want to come here to push the idea that being a Catholic is as bad as being a suicide bomber and that the victims of jihad in the Middle East deserve what they get because they don’t belong to your church. Sorry, around here we’re not into the idea that people deserve to be persecuted over differences in religion. That would be the *other* side that thrives on that kind of thinking.
gravenimagesays
mark wrote:
A lot has been said by a few persons about my Mass comment. I now realize that this site is visited by nests of Catholics who think Catholicism is Christianity.
……………………………….
“Nests of Catholics”?—what paranoid insanity. I’m not a Catholic, but I very much consider Catholics Christian.
More important than that, though, I don’t believe that any peaceful person should be threatened, driven out, or murdered for their faith.
By the way, most of the victims here are not even Catholics—they are various denominations of Orthodox Christians. But none of this should make any difference—we should stand with *all* innocent people threatened by Islam.
Clearly, mark doesn’t believe that.
More:
God thinks no more highly of the Mass than he does of a suicide bombing.
……………………………….
Good to know that mark—whoever he might be—is speaking for God.
No real Anti-Jihadist would ever engage in such repellent moral equivalence.
And whatever the exact content’s of mark’s beliefs, he should know that pious Muslims would be happy to threaten and murder him, just as much as these Christians in the Middle East.
If he believes that peaceful, Mass-celebrating Catholics represent the same sort of threat to him as ravening Jihadists, then he is a fool at best.
John C. Barile says
I understood that 7% of the population of present-day Iraq was Christian, some 1.5 million before the Second Gulf War.
mark says
May these so-called Christians who go to Mass take these death threats and persecutions as their singular opportunity to consider whether an unbiblical re-sacrifice of Christ (which is what the Mass is) is worth dying for. It is not worth risking your life for heresy that cannot save you from the penalty of hell. It is trust in Jesus’ actual sacrifice that saves, nothing else. If you disagree with me, then you need to read both your Bible and my blog.
John C. Barile says
You are so wrong Mark. The Mass is not a re-sacrifice of Our Lord, which took place in time and space, and yet transcends time and space. The Mass presents the ONE eternal offering of God the Son to God the Father, of that “Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” represented in a non-bloody way as a communal meal, a New Covenant sealed by a New Passover meal. The Mass is that very Sacrifice of Calvary that transcends time and place, so that we may partake of it.
Jay Boo says
John C. Barile
Mark is obviously not a Christian but merely a MUSLIM troll divider in disguise. If Mark were truly a Christian he would put Christ first while bearing witness to the suffering of Christians. Mark would prefer to have King Solomon’s sword cut us all in half to satiate his Muslim ego.
On a topic about the persecution of Christians the only one to benefit from changing the topic are MUSLIM trolls in disguise.
John C. Barile says
I have closely studied and meditated on the Eucharistic Discourse in the Sixth Chapter of John for fifty years, brother.
John C. Barile says
The Apostolic generation who were the close disciples of the Apostles, and the Apostles themselves affirmed belief in the Eucharist and in the Divine Liturgy, i.e., the Mass.
John C. Barile says
The offering of Melchizedek, the Passover sacrifice, and the Manna from Heaven are types foreshadowing the Blessed Sacrament itself.
Bradamante says
I don’t know where you got the idea that this is a website suitable for Catholic-bashing, but it is not. On this website, we pretty much stick together as members of a civilization founded on humanity, tolerance and respect for human dignity, and we respond with sympathy and concern for the victims of Islamic jihad, whatever their religions. If your response to seeing fellow Christians forced to flee for their lives is to attack Catholicism, perhaps you don’t yet understand the nature of the jihadist threat and why we’re reading this website.
Mirren10 says
Yay, Bradamante !
mark says
A lot has been said by a few persons about my Mass comment. I now realize that this site is visited by nests of Catholics who think Catholicism is Christianity. To criticize the Mass is to be a Muslim? What an infantile, unreasonable accusation! I will be a Christian who criticizes both Islam and the Mass: false religions. And I will do so wherever and whenever I want. The Mass is a sin against God’s sacrifice that was made once and for all, a sin against the Son of God who even Mary has to be saved by. What do you think of that? God thinks no more highly of the Mass than he does of a suicide bombing.
John C. Barile says
Brother–if I may presume to call you such–this site is the work of a Melkite-rite Catholic, Robert Spencer It saddens me to think that you wouldn’t bestow the fair name of Christian on me as I would upon you–that you wouldn’t think of so many other exemplary Christians, Catholic or Eastern Orthodox as fellow Christians.
John C. Barile says
Robert Spencer’s host on Sun TV, Michael Coren, is Catholic.<
Bradamante says
You think that God is just as offended by an incorrect ritual (as a Catholic, I don’t think the Mass is incorrect, but you obviously do) as by mass murder. Up until now, I didn’t think you could possibly be a Muslim, but one of the hallmarks of jihadists is that they think murder is no worse than belonging to the “wrong” version of a religion. That’s part of how they justify murdering people over doctrinal disagreements. In my opinion, if you’re confused enough that you think suicide bombing is no more offensive than a well-intentioned but misguided effort to honor God (since surely, even if you think the Mass is wrong, you can see that it’s well-intentioned), you really need to pray for guidance, and/or seek professional help.
John C. Barile says
marc,
Are you so ignorant that you think we believe Mary Theotokos–the God-Bearer–had no need of salvation? Don’t you know that we hold Mary to have been saved by her son Our God by prevenient grace?
dumbledoresarmy says
Mate.
Ever heard of Asia Bibi? She’s a Pakistani *Catholic* Christian who is sitting in a horrible prison cell in Pakistan right now, on Death Row, because a bunch of mohammedan females, with whom she was working in the fields, decided to accuse her of “Blasphemy!!!!” after a discussion in which she said she preferred Jesus to Mohammed. That’s all.
She was beaten up by a mob who demanded that she convert to Islam. She refused; she continued to affirm her faith in Jesus. She was arrested, “tried” and condemned to death for “blasphemy” (because, you see, by implying that Jesus was better than Mohammed, she had “insulted” Mohammed). Her case was appealed; the Muslims are amusing themselves by playing cat and mouse with her. A Pakistani Christian politician was assassinated because he had publicly stood up for her. She has been sitting in prison, denied all but the briefest of visits by her family, for something like three years.
She is suffering for Christ. She has confessed his Name before men, and she has not denied Him.
And *you* would condemn her and say she was not a Christian at all????
Me (and I am not a Catholic by tradition; I would call myself an evangelical within the Anglican communion), *I* recognise Asia Bibi as my dearly-beloved Christian sister and I pray for her, often and often.
Fred Forrett says
“Do this in memory of me.” — Jesus.
Un-biblical?
EYESOPEN says
Fred Forrett said: ““Do this in memory of me.” — Jesus. Un-biblical?”
There is more, Fred:
“Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.”
“He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.”
And at The Last Supper:
“TAKE THIS, ALL OF YOU, AND EAT OF IT, FOR THIS IS MY BODY, WHICH WILL BE GIVEN UP FOR YOU.”
” TAKE THIS, ALL OF YOU, AND DRINK FROM IT, FOR THIS IS THE CHALICE OF MY BLOOD, THE BLOOD OF THE NEW AND ETERNAL COVENANT, WHICH WILL BE POURED OUT FOR YOU AND FOR MANY FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS. DO THIS IN MEMORY OF ME. ”
As with all the Sacraments, Jesus is the primary act-er of the Eucharist. They are His hands (through the ordained minister) which grasp the bread and the chalice filled with wine. They are His words spoken in the first person through the priest. He is both the priest and the victim. The sacrifice of the Eucharist is the sacrifice of the Cross — it culminates in God being glorified and humanity being sanctified. As Christ gives Himself to us in the Eucharist, let us model our lives after His — one of self-gift and in so doing fall more in love with our Eucharistic Lord.
And note that although it would not be until the next day that Jesus Christ was crucified, he instituted the Sacrament of the Eucharist at The Last Supper because His act of sacrifice and redemption of humanity was – and remains – timeless.
I will not even bother to address this to “mark”, who seems so full of hate for the Church that Christ Himself created, that he can’t see straight. Oh well. Not my problem.
John C. Barile says
You have fully and clearly stated the truth we hold; I could not have said it better. You touched on every point that I hoped to make.
gravenimage says
mark wrote:
May these so-called Christians who go to Mass take these death threats and persecutions as their singular opportunity to consider whether an unbiblical re-sacrifice of Christ (which is what the Mass is)
……………………………
On another recent post mark was claiming that the Mass encouraged pedophilia.
I don’t really much care what mark’s wonky views on the Mass might be—but he is *woefully* misinformed if he believes that Muslims would refrain from murderously targeting Christians if only they stopped celebrating Mass.
The fact is that pious Muslims target *all* Infidels for oppression and violence—any small variations in their worship is irrelevant to supremacist Muslims.
rev g says
I think that “historic homelands” is a misnomer. Remember Byzantium!
tpellow says
“Rally in Lyon for Iraqi Christians”
http://galliawatch.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/rally-in-lyon-for-iraqi-christians.html
mary_gonzales says
This will happen,not only in Iraq..Syria already did,almost all middle east are doing it. For now, The west still breath fresh and safe while their smart ‘anti-racism’ government put their own time bomb in their shelter..
Richie says
It would be nice to see Islam driven out of the Christian lands of the Middle East, north Africa and Asia. When Muslims threaten to murder your family if you don’t pray to their demonic moon god, thats well past the time to fight back. The sick thing is the western media and governments totally side with the Muslims against the Christians, just as they are siding with the Muslims against the Jews
Is Obama funding the Muslim campaign to wipe out the Christians?
Richie says
It would be nice to see Islam driven out of the Christian lands of the Middle East, north Africa and Asia. When Muslims threaten to murder your family if you don’t pray to their demonic moon god, thats well past the time to fight back. The sick thing is the western media and governments totally side with the Muslims against the Christians, just as they are siding with the Muslims against the Jews
Is Obama funding the Muslim campaign to wipe out the Christians?
Richie says
oops, double post, feel free to delete
Boonedog says
Very few horrific stories affect me the way this one did. I fell on my knees and prayed for this girl. God help her and the men and women trying to keep her safe.
mark says
A lot has been said by a few persons about my Mass comment. I now realize that this site is visited by nests of Catholics who think Catholicism is Christianity. To criticize the Mass is to be a Muslim? What an infantile, unreasonable accusation! I will be a Christian who criticizes both Islam and the Mass: false religions. And I will do so wherever and whenever I want. The Mass is a sin against God’s sacrifice that was made once and for all, a sin against the Son of God who even Mary has to be saved by. What do you think of that? God thinks no more highly of the Mass than he does of a suicide bombing.
Bradamante says
If you were on here bashing Protestants, or Hindus, or Jews or Buddhists in such vile terms, I’d object just as strongly.
This site is about resisting a doctrine that teaches that people deserve to be killed for belonging to the “wrong” religion. And you want to come here to push the idea that being a Catholic is as bad as being a suicide bomber and that the victims of jihad in the Middle East deserve what they get because they don’t belong to your church. Sorry, around here we’re not into the idea that people deserve to be persecuted over differences in religion. That would be the *other* side that thrives on that kind of thinking.
gravenimage says
mark wrote:
A lot has been said by a few persons about my Mass comment. I now realize that this site is visited by nests of Catholics who think Catholicism is Christianity.
……………………………….
“Nests of Catholics”?—what paranoid insanity. I’m not a Catholic, but I very much consider Catholics Christian.
More important than that, though, I don’t believe that any peaceful person should be threatened, driven out, or murdered for their faith.
By the way, most of the victims here are not even Catholics—they are various denominations of Orthodox Christians. But none of this should make any difference—we should stand with *all* innocent people threatened by Islam.
Clearly, mark doesn’t believe that.
More:
God thinks no more highly of the Mass than he does of a suicide bombing.
……………………………….
Good to know that mark—whoever he might be—is speaking for God.
No real Anti-Jihadist would ever engage in such repellent moral equivalence.
And whatever the exact content’s of mark’s beliefs, he should know that pious Muslims would be happy to threaten and murder him, just as much as these Christians in the Middle East.
If he believes that peaceful, Mass-celebrating Catholics represent the same sort of threat to him as ravening Jihadists, then he is a fool at best.