Abu Bakar Ba’asyir, or Bashir, is the spiritual leader of the jihad terror group Jamaah Islamiyah, and consequently retains considerable influence among Indonesian jihadists. He is the first jihad leader of any significant prominance to jump on the Islamic State bandwagon, but if the Islamic State can sustain itself over a period of years, there will be many more.
“Jailed Terrorist Convict Ba’asyir Pledges Oath With ISIS on the Rise,” by Kennial Caroline Laia and Dyah Ayu Pitaloka, Jakarta Globe, August 4, 2014:
Jakarta. Imprisoned terrorist convict Abu Bakar Ba’asyir has officially pledged his allegiance, or bai’at, to join the jihadist movement of a militant group known as the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS, according to an official, who says that the list of Indonesian Muslim supporters for the radical movement only continues to grow.
“We had already tightened prison security, but unfortunately they [met] in rooms we didn’t suspect [they would use],” said Handoyo Sudrajat, the penitentiary directorate general at the Ministry of Legal and Human Rights Affairs.
Ba’asyir, the spiritual leader of the Indonesian terror network Jamaah Islamiyah, made his bai’at to ISIS with 23 other prisoners in a praying room of what was supposed to be the highly secured Pasir Putih penitentiary on Nusakambangan Island off Cilacap, Central Java.
Meanwhile, Habib Rizieq Shihab of the Muslim hard-line Islamic Defenders Front (FPI) denied that his organization had denounced ISIS.
“The FPI has yet decide whether it will support or refuse the establishment of ISIS [in Indonesia],” he was quoted as saying by Kompas.com, adding that FPI leaders would assess the rapidly growing Iraqi movement to decide whether it has deviated from Islamic teachings.
As ISIS garners more support in various pockets of Indonesia, anxiety has also escalated among its citizens over the jihadist movement gaining strength within the archipelago.
The East Java government recently discovered that a local branch of ISIS’s has been active in Sempu, Malang, for at least a month. Calling themselves Ansharul Khilafah, the cell have reportedly been using a village mosque as their headquarters.
“I was tagged about the establishment [of Ansharullah Khilafah] on Facebook, so my friends and I went [to the mosque]. There was a video screening and a sermon about ISIS. They handed out Al Mustaqbal magazines, brochures and vouchers for fried chicken,” Malang resident Aji Prase told the Jakarta Globe.
“We are worried about the [existence of ISIS], which is notorious for its brutal force and violence. They won’t hesitate to kill anyone who doesn’t fall in line with [their ideology]. We don’t want Malang to be its headquarters, because this would only bring violence here,” he added.In a mere week the militant group’s influence has reportedly spread to several other areas of Central Java, particularly Solo. A number of media portals have reported scores of Surakarta Muslims pledging their oath to ISIS.
East Java Governor Ganjar Pranowo said the government would step up its efforts in both monitoring and limiting the organization’s movements.
“We will improve on our early warning system and remain on high alert, so we can say that Central Java is the bastion of the Pancasila,” he said on Monday as quoted by Kompas.com.
Meanwhile, the central government has officially banned ISIS and emphasized the importance of putting a stop to the militant outfit’s damaging influence.
“The government will not allow ISIS to develop in Indonesia, because it goes against the ideology of our Pancasila, which promotes pluralism,” said Djoko Suyanto, Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs, during a press conference at the presidential palace in Jakarta on Monday.
“Every attempt to promote ISIS should be prevented. Indonesia should not be the place to spread [their ideology].”
The announcement came after a limited cabinet meeting on ISIS led by President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.
“The activities of ISIS and now IS [Islamic State] have been monitored by several ministries since the movement first showed signs of taking root in the country, [including] the Ministry of Religious Affairs, the Foreign Affairs Ministry, and the National Police,” Djoko said.
The coordinating minister added that ISIS should not be considered a religious movement, but as an ideology that runs counter to that of Indonesia.
The National Police and the National Counterterrorism Agency (BNPT) have been appointed to lead a joint law enforcement effort against ISIS’s activities across the country, according to Djoko.
The government also said it would be monitoring Indonesians who plan to travel to countries in the Middle East and South Asia — areas known to have ongoing armed conflicts — to ensure they will not have any contact with ISIS.
“The Foreign Affairs Ministry will take the lead [on the matter], while the National Police and the BNPT will monitor the movements of any Indonesian citizen who visits the Middle East as well as South Asia,” Djoko said.
With an increasing number of reports of citizens supporting the Iraqi-based movement, University of Indonesia law professor Hikmahanto Juwana urged the government to conduct a comprehensive campaign against the teachings of ISIS to inform the people of Indonesia of its dangers.
“Although the president has urged his people to be critical about this damaging jihadist movement, further preventive actions must be taken. Will they enforce the law or won’t they ? They need to act now,” Hikmahanto said.
Very Aziz, a political observer of the Middle East at Paramadina University, said that most of ISIS’s Indonesian supporters have been ensnared by false, religious rhetoric fed to them by recruiters with purely political agendas.
“The support for ISIS will remain small in Indonesia. However, the government must continue to keep a close eye on the outfit, so that it won’t escalate into an unruly minority group that manages to disturb the peace,” he said.
Very good, Very.
jihad3tracker says
To my non-expert eyes, ISIS seems to be batting a solid .900 at least…
Howzabout some of our readers here at JW who actually DO know what kinds of strategies might be used by other Islamic countries, to lay out possible ways ISIS could be derailed or at least seriously slowed ???
John C. Barile says
I agree with you that what you propose is an absolute necessity–yet a think Islam is a house divided against itself, and cannot stand–is inherently unstable and regressive. And then again, I’m no expert in warfare, unconventional or conventional.
John C. Barile says
Yet I think, that is. Typo.
chrisleo says
Isis needs to be allowed to grow and develop, not be stopped in its tracks and derailed, its needs to flourish in Iraq, Syria and the Levant, it needs to continue to attract more of the devout and swell its ranks, continue its atrocities and murders. I know it sounds perverse and and strange to some ears, but this is exactly what is needed to get the message out here in the West, and showcase what Islam is all about. The main stream media can’t cover or hide it forever, it will reveal itself. Hopefully, then we’ll get some politicians with backbone who’ll tackle Islam rather than this sickening pandering to Muslim voters.
jihad3tracker says
Hello chrisleo —
Thanks for the response …
However, isn’t there a danger in letting ISIS get stronger, if the new capabilities from that growth lead to pushing combat BEYOND current areas where it is dominant ?
We have already read and heard the caliphate-establishing hopes of numerous ISIS leaders — and other prominent Muslims. Increased power gained by ISIS would therefore be applied for expansion of geography.
Even Privilege Guilt Westerners have gotten a major dose of reality about ISIS in recent weeks. There is often an interval between formerly clueless persons finally having a light bulb switch on in their heads, and a coalescence of response to a major threat.
But, an actual way for the U.S. and its “allies” in Europe and the Middle-East to take ISIS on militarily is what will be very hard to achieve. The answer to that problem will, IMHO, require strategic brilliance, unending combat, bottomless money.
Angemon says
Of course he did. What are they going to do, throw his ass in jail for it?
There’s this thing called “solitary confinement”… Just saying…
Yeah, just ask the East Timorese animists how that “pluralism” worked out for them…
John C. Barile says
Yes, but he East Timorese–those who survived–are 90% Christian.
John C. Barile says
—the–
Angemon says
They are now. At the time of the indonesian invasion the majority of the East Timorese were animists (polytheists). They were forced by the indonesian invaders to convert to one of the monotheistic religions allowed by the pancasila.
Mazo says
Angrymoron thinks Hinduism and Buddhism are monotheistic religions. Methinks he should lay off the crack pipe. Has he looked at the full list of religions recognized by Indonesia?
Angemon says
The maz-hole posted:
“Angrymoron thinks Hinduism and Buddhism are monotheistic religions. Methinks he should lay off the crack pipe”
Actually, dumbass, I never said that Hinduism or Buddhism are monotheistic religions. Your tactic of replying to things i didn’t say is a waste of time and it makes you look like quite the imbecile, don’t you think? Anyway:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancasila_(politics)
“Another criticism is the sentences of principle 1: Ketuhanan yang Maha Esa or “Belief in One Supreme God” which suggests national preference to monotheism. This staunch reverence to monotheism is feared would lead to discrimination.[13] This first principle sentence is problematic for certain religions, namely Hinduism, Buddhism and Confucianism. Although Buddhism and Hinduism are considered as classical religions in Indonesian history, the adherence to the one and only God is not exactly correct to describe these dharmic religions. The believers of Hinduism, sometimes are considered more likely to be polytheistic with myriad of gods, hyangs and deities to be revered, and which are practised by a significant minority of Indonesians. While Buddhism recognizes the existence of divinities, it does not stress their spiritual pursuit on worshipping God, but the deliverance from the samsara cycle to achieve nirvana. As the result, Indonesian Hindus and Buddhists must struggle to find a somewhat monotheistic counterpart concept in their faith. Which resulted in the national adoption of the concepts of Sang Hyang Widhi Wasa and Adi-Buddha as their version of the supreme God.”
Hinduism, Buddhism and Confucianism are interpreted in a way that’s not incompatible with monotheism. Take your complaints to your indonesian government, strawmen will get you nowhere.
Mazo says
Analmoron, the Indonesian government forced Indonesian MUSLIMS suspected of being Communist, to converted to Hinduism and Christianity. The Indonesian government sent Christian and Hindus to spread their religion among suspected Communist Muslims
http://books.google.com/books?id=gzycUFzE9MsC&pg=PA145#v=onepage&q&f=false
Its clear your just full of shit when you pretend that you are just criticizing pancasila and Indonesia, when in reality you are trying to imply that Islam is the cause of Pancasila and Indonesia being intolerant. Otherwise you would not bring this up on JWatch
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/11/uk-reporters-distributing-photos-of-jihad-terror-suspect-arrested-for-racially-aggravated-public-dis/comment-page-0#comment-985444
And now, back on topic: since the animist cults of East Timor were not included in the notion of monotheism stated in the indonesian constitution (you know, the monotheism whose existence you denied), the timorese people had to convert to a monotheistic religion. Seems to me that islam in Indonesia is not very religious tolerant.
The so called “islam in indonesia” which allegedly is the cause of East Timorese conversion from animism to Catholocism, also apparently forced Indonesian MUSLIMS to convert to Hinduism and Christianity.
Its funny how analmoron pretends that he isn’t implying Islam is responsible for pancasila and forced conversion in Indonesia, but he doesn’t give a shit about totalitarian ideologies in other countries on JWatch which cannot be linked to Islam. When Vietnam came up, I never heared him criticize the religious intolerance of the Vietnamese government, instead he went solely to the Vietnam arricle to stalk my comments. Why? Because everyone knows religious persecutuon in Vietnam cannot be spuriously linked to Islam. While Analmoron tries to imply Islam is responsivle for pancasila and persecution in Indonesia.
Angemon says
The maz-hole posted:
“Analmoron, the Indonesian government forced Indonesian MUSLIMS suspected of being Communist, to converted to Hinduism and Christianity. The Indonesian government sent Christian and Hindus to spread their religion among suspected Communist Muslims
http://books.google.com/books?id=gzycUFzE9MsC&pg=PA145#v=onepage&q&f=false”
And that relates to East Timor or to what i said how? Oh, wait, it doesn’t. It’s just another pathetic attempt at muddying the waters.
“Its clear your just full of shit when you pretend that you are just criticizing pancasila and Indonesia, when in reality you are trying to imply that Islam is the cause of Pancasila and Indonesia being intolerant. Otherwise you would not bring this up on JWatch”
This kind of moronic belief conspiracy theory is common among muslims: “Look at the big, bad Angemon who criticizes Indonesia and the pancasila but he really is criticizing islam!!!”. Apparently what I mean is not dependent of what I say but of where I say it. Fun, off-topic remark: this is the same “logic” another islamic apologist tried to use before:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/malaysia-obama-to-honor-islam-by-visiting-triumphal-mosque-built-on-site-of-church/comment-page-1#comment-1041835
“http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/11/uk-reporters-distributing-photos-of-jihad-terror-suspect-arrested-for-racially-aggravated-public-dis/comment-page-0#comment-985444”
Notice what i said in that comment:
“Both Buddhism and Confucianism can be seen as monotheistic or polytheistic. Even according to the view most common in the West, the concept of God is pretty much unknowable and for all intents and purposes it’s equivalent to Nirvana. Also, in Indonesia, Buddhists are generally of Chinese origin. They have a long history as traders and as a result they hold plenty of the private property and wealth in Indonesia, which gives them a great deal of influence in the government.
Hinduism can also be understood as monotheistic or polytheistic. Since Buddhism, Confucianism and Hinduism are ok with a notion of God similar to the Judaic-Christian and Islamic notions of God, they were included in the national constitution and pancasila.”
That was on November 19th, 2013. Now look at what the maz-hole stated earlier in this very topic:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/08/indonesia-jihad-leader-abu-bakar-bashir-pledges-allegiance-to-islamic-state/comment-page-1#comment-1097944
“Angrymoron thinks Hinduism and Buddhism are monotheistic religions.”
That proves he was fully aware of what I said regarding Hinduism, Buddhism, monotheism and the pancasila and he still tried to pass the idea that the pancasila didn’t allow only for monotheist religions because it also includes Hinduism or Buddhism. Trust the crap that spews out of the maz-hole at your own peril.
“The so called “islam in indonesia” which allegedly is the cause of East Timorese conversion from animism to Catholocism, also apparently forced Indonesian MUSLIMS to convert to Hinduism and Christianity.”
Was that during the rule of the – wait, how do you usually present him? Oh, yeah, something along the lines of “secular dictator backed by west and the CIA” Suharto? If so, the knife cuts both ways, dumbass.
“Its funny how analmoron pretends that he isn’t implying Islam is responsible for pancasila and forced conversion in Indonesia, but he doesn’t give a shit about totalitarian ideologies in other countries on JWatch which cannot be linked to Islam.”
That makes no sense whatsoever. Clearly you’re not thinking straight. Calm down, think carefully what you’re trying to say and how you want to say it, and try again. I didn’t even brought up forced conversion in Indonesia. I think you’re so “open-minded” that you’re reading things out of my statements that weren’t even there to begin with.
“When Vietnam came up, I never heared him criticize the religious intolerance of the Vietnamese government, instead he went solely to the Vietnam arricle to stalk my comments.”
Not sure of what “arricle” you’re talking about, nor how it links to East Timor or Indonesia.
“While Analmoron tries to imply Islam is responsivle for pancasila and persecution in Indonesia.”
Lay off the crack pipe buddy. You might be able to salvage some of what remains of your brain. For the sake of your argument, let’s pretend I was implying what you claim. Then what? You didn’t give any evidence to counter what you claim I’m implying. You whole argument is build around the following premise: “oh, he said this but he means another thing”. It doesn’t prove that what you claim I imply is wrong, it just proves that you’re a foul-mouthed conspiracy nut with too much time on his hands. You need to do better things in your free time buddy. Something that involves tissues and cleaning up a sticky mess. Like cleaning your bathroom, or cooking a nice meal, or making healthy drinks.
Semeru says
Hence proving the Indonesian invasion of East Timor was not Jihad
Angemon says
Dumb Dunce posted:
“Hence proving the Indonesian invasion of East Timor was not Jihad”
Which was something no one brought up here. In any case, like i said, East Timorese are overwhelming Catholics because of the indonesian invasion. The indonesian invaders forced animists into converting to a monotheist religion. Given the choices available (courtesy of the pancasila), East Timorese picked Catholicism. Since they were forced into conversion, if anything, it would make the case for jihad, not the opposite. But, like i said, no one brought that hypothesis up here so shove your brown, smelly strawman into the gapping hole you pulled it from, dumbass.
BTW, are you and cohort paid to defend Indonesia on Jihad Watch?
Mazo says
Angrymoron, how do you explain the fact that there are still animists among minorities like Dayak and Toraja? Are you thick in the head, as well as in the rear?
Angemon says
The maz-hole farted:
“how do you explain the fact that there are still animists among minorities like Dayak and Toraja?”
I never mentioned Dayak or Toraja so I don’t have to explain anything regarding it. I pointed out that the large percentage of Catholics in the East Timorese population is a direct result of the indonesian invasion. That is a fact and it’s not up to discussion, hence why the maz-hole is trying a more subtle approach. What’s implied in his post is that somehow animism is legal or accepted in Indonesia because it’s practiced by minority groups and therefore the East Timorese were free to keep practicing their religion under indonesian rule.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Indonesia#Animism
“Animism has existed since Indonesia’s earliest history, around the first century, just before Hindu culture arrived in Indonesia.[40] Furthermore, two thousand years later, with the existence of Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism and other religion, Animism still exists in some parts of Indonesia. However, this belief is not accepted as Indonesia’s official religion as the Pancasila states the belief in the supreme deity, or monotheism.[40] Animism, on the other hand, does not believe in a particular god. The government of Indonesia often views indigenous beliefs as adat (custom) rather that agama (religion) or as a variant of a recognized religion.[41] Because the government do not recognize animism indigenous tribal belief systems as official religion, as a result followers of various native animistic religions such as Dayak Kaharingan have identified themselves as Hindu in order to avoid pressure to convert to Islam or Christianity. Several native tribal beliefs such as Sundanese Sunda Wiwitan, Torajan Aluk To Dolo, and Batak Malim — although different from Indian influenced Balinese Hinduism — might seek affiliation with Hinduism in order to survive, while at the same time also preserving their distinction from mainstream Indonesian Hinduism dominated by Balinese. In many cases, some of the followers of these native beliefs might convert to Christianity or Islam, at least registered as such on their KTP (identity card), but still uphold and perform their native beliefs.”
Notice that this contradicts what the maz-hole said earlier:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/08/indonesia-jihad-leader-abu-bakar-bashir-pledges-allegiance-to-islamic-state/comment-page-1#comment-1097938
“animists from minority ethnic groups have recognized their traditional beliefs as “Hindu” to avoid being classified as Christians.”
There are still animists in Indonesia not because of the pancasila or the law but regardless of them.
The question is: why do I have to explain such basic notions to someone who apparently knows so much about indonesia? Surely the maz-hole should know what’s the status of animism in Indonesia and why animists seek affiliation with Hinduism in order to survive.
Mazo says
“animists from minority ethnic groups have recognized their traditional beliefs as “Hindu” to avoid being classified as Christians.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Indonesia#Animism
Because the government do not recognize animism indigenous tribal belief systems as official religion, as a result followers of various native animistic religions such as Dayak Kaharingan have identified themselves as Hindu in order to avoid pressure to convert to Islam or Christianity.
No contradiction, analmoron.
While western backed rapist Dictator Suharto was busy massacring minorities, it was Gaddafi and Acehnese Muslims who helped East Timorese, West Papauns, and South Moluccans.
Angemon says
The maz-hole posted:
“No contradiction”
It contradicts what you said and it further exposes you as a liar. “Being classified as Christians” is not the same as being pressured to convert to islam or christianity. It’s either one thing or another, you can’t have both. Fact is, you were trying to make it seem as if animists were somehow”classified” as christians unless they stated to be Hindu rather than being forced to convert.
Mazo says
Ask the pro-western rapist dictator Suharto who was funded, supported, and put into power by the west, and had all his murders and military actions approved by the American CIA and government.
Hinduism is a recognized religion in Indonesia and animists from minority ethnic groups have recognized their traditional beliefs as “Hindu” to avoid being classified as Christians. Indonesia recognizes Islam, Hinduism, Protestanism, Catholicism, Buddhism, and Confucianism as religions.
It was Colonel Muammar Gaddafi who supported the armed resistance movements against Dictator Suharto and his fellow Dictator Marcos in the Philippines, like the Acehnese GAM, Timorese FRETILIN, Papuan OPM, Moro MNLF, South Moluccan separatists, and NPA.
Gaddafi was overthrown with western support, because of the humiliation he inflicted on pro-western, CIA approved rapist Dictators like Suharto and Marcos.
John C. Barile says
No, Ghaddafi was overthrown because of the baleful, loathsome influence of Muslim Brotherhood operatives within the Obama Administration who wanted Ghaddaffi overthrown, and ardent Islamists and the MB to take his place. It is the same situation vis a vis Bashir Assad in Syria–the Ikhwan want him out.
John C. Barile says
You are thoroughly anti-American, Horse–but you understand the United States about as well as I understand China or the Chinese. That is, I don’t know enough to understand well enough; and conversely, neither do you.
Angemon says
The maz-hole posted:
“Ask the pro-western rapist dictator Suharto who was funded, supported, and put into power by the west, and had all his murders and military actions approved by the American CIA and government.”
Was it Suharto, the west or the CIA who came up with the pancasila?
semeru says
The ever tedious agrononse again
Was it Suharto, the west or the CIA who came up with the pancasila
None of them
Suharto
Angemon says
Dumb Dunce posted:
“None of them
Suharto”
Here’s what i asked:
“Was it Suharto, the west or the CIA who came up with the pancasila?”
Notice that the first choice i gave was “Suharto”.
Semeru says
You twat, you really walked into that one..
You do a cut and paste with your comment time stamped.
Pity you did not read the wikipedia article about pancasila. then you would have known who create it.
You asked Mazo
Was it Suharto, the west or the CIA who came up with the Was it Suharto, the west or the CIA who came up with the pancasila?
I answerd Suharto, because I had a feeling you did not know the right answer yourself, also I answered Suharto so as to play you along.
Of course you you started with your usual round of abuse, but you did not start mocking me for answering Suharto instead of Sukarno, which you would have done if you had known it was Sukarno
If you had known that Sukarno was the creator of Pancasila, you would have really made a big song and dance about me not knowing it was Sukarno.
Sukarno was the was President who was removed by Suharto aided by the CIA who supplied Suharto with death lists of many communists. It was the muslim Suharto who ordered the invasion of East Timor with backing and aid of the USofAmerika. It was also Suharto who held the Bashir Buck-tooth under lock and key.
So do not forget It was Sukarno who created Pancasila
Angemon says
Dumb Dunce posted:
“You do a cut and paste with your comment time stamped”
Is this your way of trying to get back at me for all the times you pointed out you were copy/pasting from the internet without giving a source? If so then you’re even stupider than i thought. I gave a link to my source and italicized what I quoted from it just to let everyone know i was quoting from it. Hardly the same as you posting something copy/pasted without giving a source. BTW dumbass, I didn’t cut anything, and all comments have a time stamp.
“I answerd Suharto, because I had a feeling you did not know the right answer yourself, also I answered Suharto so as to play you along.
Of course you you started with your usual round of abuse, but you did not start mocking me for answering Suharto instead of Sukarno, which you would have done if you had known it was Sukarno”
So you gave a wrong answer, I called you out on being too stupid to even read what you replied to and now you’re saying you did it on purpose just to get me to mock you. Got it. God, you’re getting stupider by the day. Now think about it this way: I knew who created the pancasila because i read the article and asked that precisely because i knew that Suharto, the CIA and the US government, which came from maz-hole’s post, had nothing to do with it. See, the maz-hole is a bit smarter than you hence why he didn’t reply.
“If you had known that Sukarno was the creator of Pancasila, you would have really made a big song and dance about me not knowing it was Sukarno.”
Where have I ever did a big song and dance about you being wrong? It’s an everyday occurrence around here.
Angemon says
Dumb Dunce posted:
“Pity you did not read the wikipedia article about pancasila. then you would have known who create it.”
Just one more time, for good measure: you claim i went through an Wikipedia article without reading it and somehow magically managed to quote the part that contradicted the maz-hole’s claims, and then asked a question which, had i not know the answer beforehand, could have backfired? Is that what you’re claiming?
semeru says
Whatever
Angemon says
Dumb Dunce posted:
“Whatever”
Thus spoke Cleopatra, queen of denial.
Wetwork56 says
Y A W N……..
If we dedicate time & effort for every radical imam wrongly imprisoned (in their feeble minds) calling for jihad against (insert group of the day here) we d have server crashes throughout the world. What else is new???
John C. Barile says
The Islamic State and the revived caliphate for these fanatics–in their thousands among millions–to rally behind and wage jihad for–that’s what’s new. The Beast that was dead for over 90 years is alive. A preternaturally evil Resurrection of the Damned, that’s what.
John C. Barile says
From the ashes of the Ottoman, Safavid, and Mughal Empires, a Little Horn has emerged, to use the apocalyptic language of the Book of Daniel.
jihad3tracker says
Hello JCB —
You have said in a few words what I was getting at in my long post above…
If we add the scant span of our current century to the previous one, ISIS and its immediate string of victories is the most important event of those 114 years.
But I wonder how long it will take “heads of state” around the world to understand that…
And who’s first going to utter the truth about this fact — any guesses ? I have two persons in mind, but please, dear readers of JW here, parachute down with your own suggestions.
somehistory says
When reading “apocalyptic” verses, it’s easy to see Revelation 13 applying to the re-emerging “beast”…and not just the IS group, but the savagery as a whole.
Daniel is apropos for our time, definitely, and more than an interesting read.
John C. Barile says
And they marvel–“who is like unto the Beast, who can fight against him?” And this Beast has a head, and is a man–or a series of men.
John C. Barile says
I hardly ever say anything in a minimum of words, j3tracker, but I take what you say to mean that the alarm should be sounded and a warning given. That the world at large should be stirred and alerted.
Mazo says
According to scholars, only a Qurayshi can by Khalifah and therefore the Ottoman Khilafah was illegitimate. That is also the view of Baghdadi’s gang. The Ottomans were Turks and not from the Quraysh tribe.
Angemon says
“According to scholars, only a Qurayshi can by(sic) Khalifah”
Further evidence of the supremacist nature of islam, a religion invented by arabs for arabs, and of its incompatibility with the Western values of liberty, equality and justice.
Mazo says
I forgot to clarify for angrymoron-
Not all Arabs are from the Quraysh tribe. A non-Qurayshi Arab is just as illegitimate.
Sunni believe that the Khilafah or Imam must be Qurayshi, the tribe of the Hashemite ( the family of the Prophet and Ali), Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, the Ummayad, and Abbasid clans
The various Shia sects believe that the Imam or Khilafah must be a Hashemite from Ahl al-Bayt, from the family of the Prophet (excludes all the other Qurayshi clans).
Ibadi believe their Imam (leader) can be any Muslim male adult who is competent. They have no requirements for being from the Hashemite clan or Quraysh tribe.
Angemon says
Now it sounds even more supremacist and incompatible with the Western values of liberty, equality and justice. Nice job “fixing” it, maz-hole. Maybe you should run your usual mantra and blame it on the West, CIA and US government?
John C. Barile says
@Mazo:
Thanks for sharing that information.
John says
That creepy guy looks like a sewer rat.