“There is no reconciling with them. We will have to fight.” The West will, too, but is still in deep denial of that fact.
“Isis surges towards the borders of Turkey as west mulls options,” by Martin Chulov, The Observer, August 24, 2014 (thanks to Thomas Pellow):
Islamic State extremists are pushing to secure the border between Turkey and north-western Syria as the main gateway for recruits to join the caliphate they have imposed across much of eastern Syria and western Iraq.
Large numbers of jihadists from Islamic State (formerly Isis) are moving this weekend towards the Turkish border area, about 60 miles north of Aleppo, in columns of armoured trucks that they looted from abandoned Iraqi military bases. The area is now one of the most active front lines in the group’s attempt to redraw the borders of the Levant, a campaign that will have huge ramifications for Turkey.
Residents and Syrian opposition militants in the town of Marea, close to the Turkish border, on Saturday said that Isis had advanced to within sight of the town and had sent envoys to negotiate access.
Turkey Syria“They could storm in like the Mongols, if they wanted to,” said a fighter from Syrian rebel group Islamic Front. “But they’re trying to be nice. We have dealt with them before. There is no reconciling with them. We will have to fight.”
The Syrian opposition fought a bitter and costly war with Isis in the same area in January, ousting them from ground they had used as a rallying point for foreign fighters and for a successful push into Iraq. The six-week battle cost the lives of more than 2,500 opposition fighters and allowed the Syrian regime, together with its proxies, to slowly encircle Aleppo from the north-west, a move which is likely to prove decisive in the Syrian civil war.
Since that battle, the flow of foreign fighters from across the Turkish border to Isis has slowed. Isis now wants to reverse that, making it easier for anyone who wants to join them to cross a 130-mile strip of the frontier that has been used by the vast majority of foreign fighters, including British and European jihadists.
“The Turkish border is the only way to smuggle oil, weapons and foreign fighters into [Iraq and Syria],” said Dr Hisham al-Hashimi, an Iraqi expert on Isis. “If it’s closed, it will cut three things: funding, an entrance for the foreign fighters and links to Europe which they are trying to open. If those plans are destroyed, they will aim for another gate to Lebanon.”
Isis’s self-declared new caliph, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, has urged bureaucrats, judges, administrators and doctors to relocate to what he claims will be an autonomous area across much of Iraq and Syria that is ruled by hardline Islamic law and pays no heed to existing borders.
European governments and the US have for the last 18 months been urging Turkey, which is a Nato member, to do more to stop jihadists who cross into Syria. Officials in Ankara had at first insisted that there was little that they could do to distinguish between religious pilgrims travelling to Turkey and those who intended to join a jihad.
Intelligence officials insisted that countries concerned that their citizens might be extremists should sound the alarm before they travel. However, European governments have been increasingly frustrated by what they perceive as Turkey’s lack of will to confront the jihadists, given that they were destabilising the Assad regime.
Some agencies believe the Turkish National Police are more willing to interdict Isis than the country’s national intelligence agency, MIT. However, sources have told the Observer that the police have been sidelined in a power struggle with president-elect Recep Tayyip Erdogan, whose circle has given responsibility for jihadists to MIT.
Western officials told the Observer that they were obliged to tread carefully when talking to the Turks about foreign passport holders suspected of trying to travel to Syria through Turkey. Using the term “extremist” or “terrorist” in official correspondence would generally lead nowhere, but Turkish officials were more forthcoming when inquiries were made about “those who abuse religion”.
The battle over semantics underscores the deepening sensitivity surrounding the fast-growing regional extremist threat that some senior figures in the Middle East and Europe say Turkey has facilitated either through neglect or undeclared policy.
“Let’s see how they react to the latest Isis advance,” said one regional leader on Saturday. “For more than a year now people have been telling them this has got out of control. They have to seal their border now. This so-called caliphate cannot be allowed to stand.”
Al-Hashimi said Ankara would now be forced to act. “This time Turkey will do something and block the borders because they don’t trust Isis any more after they attacked Kurdistan. They understand now that Isis could turn on them.”…
This is just dawning on them?
Brian says
Nobody in the West will do anything. I can tell you that as I am one. One big reason is why would you expect any men in the West to fight these people, while they’re just flooding into the countries here thanks to liberalism, open borders, etc?
It wouldnt make any sense.
NBT Films says
You’re absolutely right. After returning back to the UK, I can see people here dare not talk about Islam or address the problem we have with it. Anytime I raise awareness of the cult, people seem very hesitant in engaging me.
For God’s sake Britain, stand up! Take your country back!
Shane says
The USA is already doing something by putting men in Iraq and by bombing ISIS. When Obama and Congress come back from vacation, the issue of what to do about ISIS will be at the forefront. We must insist that the USA work with other countries to destroy ISIS, even if it means allying with Assad in Syria to bomb ISIS to hell.
Uncle Vladdi says
“The US” (0bama regime) is doing what it’s always done: it has illegally trained, paid, and armed all these ISIS terrorists with American-made weapons, in Libya, to send to Syria and Iraq, via Turkey.
Obama still wants to be caliph. He imagines he already is.
kikorikid says
Brian, You are a real defeatist-Dhimmi.
There is a great host of Men of the West who will
fight Islam. You better get the F___ out of the way!
umbra says
isis is likely to turn on turkey in the end for there is nothing above the caliphate or the caliph. When that happens, isis and turkey can destroy each other’s miserable house.
No Fear says
For years people such as Robert (and others) have been telling everyone about Jihad and Mohammed’s evil example. I hope the world is finally starting to awake from their slumber….
Beagle says
I read one learned analyst after another wondering why the Turks and Saudis don’t do more against the IS. Learned about many things, but not Islam’s caliphate dream and sectarian divisions.
When the IS captured Mosul the early analysis contended that it was “surrounded by enemies.” I said it was surrounded by possible recruits, especially the local Sunni armies. Turkey and, in particular, Saudi Arabia are the keys in determining the immediate future of the IS.
At one time, before Erdogan’s purges of the Kemalist secular officer corps, including dozens of generals, one could have safely assumed the Turks would oppose the IS. Now, having installed Islamist hardliners in their place? Hard to say.
The Saudi Wahhabi (ne plus Sunni) Sunni military is particularly problematic in this regard. No other nation would seem to be more likely to provide manpower to a Sunni caliph. Al Baghdadi’s slaughters of Shia must compel a certain loyalty from some number of Saudi military leaders. No nation, or kingdom, teaches hatred of the Shia more than ‘our friends the Saudis.’
It concerns me that none of the professional analysts seem to factor this dynamic in whatsoever. It is possible the Turks and Saudis will happily fight against their brother Sunni caliph and his mujahideen. But perhaps not.
RonaldB says
There is zero chance the Saudi government will support ISIS in any way. The Saudis supported a quick overthrow of the Syrian government, which was allied with Iran, Saudi Arabia’s mortal enemy. But, Saudi figured the US government would topple the Assad regime, replacing it with a weak government. The Saudis never dreamed the situation would morph into an actual Islamic state threatening Saudi Arabia itself.
My guess is, the Turkish government wasn’t in the least unhappy at the thought of ISIS whipping the Kurdish government in Northern Iraq. Turkey has long considered a successful, autonomous Kurdish region to be a threat to Turkey itself, as an inspiration to Kurdish separatists. Apparently, Turkey still hasn’t made up its mind as to the bigger threat.
umbra says
isis is a tool used by saudis and quite likely other gulf states to fight a proxy war against shia iran and iraq. As long as isis fulfil this purpose saudis will not impede isis. However, there will come a time when isis is no long useful (or becomes a serious liability). At that point saudis will cut all support and most probably hire US forces to take them out.
Beagle says
Yeah, I was talking about their soldiers. King Abdullah and their ulama preferred to use the IS as a weapon against their rafida Shia enemies, and whoops.
umbra says
turks and saudis will not fight isis except on their own turf (when isis comes for them). Though both countries have big armies, the combat quality of their armies have not been really tested. saudi arabia in particular is exceptionally skilful in getting others to fight its wars and battles (outside its territories).
Beagle says
My question is what happens when Abdullah or Erdogan order their soldiers into battle. I agree with both of you on the national leadership. What I’m questioning is what happens when the leadership orders their soldiers into battle.
Maybe they march off dutifully for their king and president. But I think loyalty to a Sunni caliph could be an issue for a Turk Sunni or a Wahhabi Sunni.
umbra says
In islam, things are relative. islamic soldiers would be reluctant to go up against a strong caliph. But a weak caliph … well that is likely to be an ex-caliph (or dead caliph) in the making. ROP types recognise and follow strength. They support which ever side that offers them the best chance of victory (according to their eyes). This is perhaps a reason why islamic/terror forces in syria are progressively defecting over to isis.
Uncle Vladdi says
Leftists like to pretend islamic jihad has always been “defensive,” yet I’d like to ask them the most basic question: has Arabia EVER been invaded?!
😉
Jay Boo says
The US, EU and the UN are more focused on propping up the puppet government in Kiev and preventing the Russian food convoys from feeding starving children in occupied Eastern Ukraine (with Muslim Turkey’s blessings) while whining about the Crimea than on Muslim aggression funneled through Turkey into Syria and Iraq.
Uncle Vladdi says
You must mean the “NAZI puppet government” in Kiev!
😉
Jay Boo says
Exactly
Will Doohan says
Uncle Vlad, I think your comment went right over her head.
Jay Boo, are you really that naive to think that the Russkies are conducting some type of Humanitarian mission in Ukraine?
Myxlplik says
So when the Turks are over-run by ISIS, do they still get to be in NATO?
Uncle Vladdi says
0bama will declare America is done “warmongering:” NATO will be run by ISIS!
pumbar says
Nah, that picture is of a new Islamic boy band, “the Backstreet Beheaders”. Nothing to see, move along.
Beagle says
The Guardian commenters in two articles I just read don’t realize the IS has grown outside the control of their Gulf Arab financiers. By declaring himself Caliph, Al Baghdadi has sent shivers and shockwaves through their corrupt little klepticracies.
Could not happen to a nicer group of hypocritical jihad supporters. Their monster, truly believing in their religious poison, has grown up and turned on them.
fair_dinkum says
i can only see this as a key moment…no matter what else is happening.
Turkce has been the most secular moslem state for 100 years now (since the asscention of attaturk)
but since the arab online movements to the current state of affairs, support for all of it in turkey seems to have increased, how much is hard to tell.
its key now, because of turkys’ desire to join the EU. proper.
its key because it will define turkish society. the buffer dissolved, its near the eastern european islamic states, the ‘stans; ie kazekstan etc
and they are starting to get restless.. russia will have its own hands full, if the caliphate heads north east as the second one did..(?) and creates a 2nd front in eastern europe.
turkey accepts our aid, wants involvement in europe, even nurses some nukes i think for the UN (at least i know they did during the 80s and 90s)
we were on standby there (some allied forces) during the 1st gulf war as second wave/reinforcements if needed.
whats the groundswell in general re this islamic state in turkey? whats their policy? will nato un etc back them if they resist?
it will be interesting
Carmen Sporidis says
I make just rhetorical questions. How founded IS, who make the military training with this fighters. For founding I have my usually subjects to blame, like some zealots from Saudi Arabia, Qatar and other Arab countries. For the military training my main subjects to blame are Turkey and military from Saddam Hussein, because driving a tank, making service on all this vehicles, handling advance weapons needs more than crying and yelling Allah Akbar. I read from secretary for foreign affairs from Turkey, Ahmet Davutoglu, what Pan-Turan dreams he dreamed with his master Erdogan, Turkey from the Adriatic to the Chinese Wall. When you look at the current open door politics from Turkey against the IS and kinsman, the only conclusion is, they properly trained them too, or organized the man who can do the job best. Turkey and Iran have high hopes to swallow down a big piece of a crumbling Middle East. But like always, if a power have too big dreams for her real strength, it fired back.
Now they stand before a new setback for her dreams, first their consulat in Mosul and the hostages taken from IS and now enemy for the gate. Its time Turkey eat some of his own medicin
tpellow says
“An obvious first step – close the jihadis’ highway.
World View: The best way to stop UK fighters reaching Isis is to catch them at Turkey’s border with Syria.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/an-obvious-first-step–close-the-jihadis-highway-9687899.html
John C. Barile says
Obvious, but easier said than done. As this Mr. Cockburn points out, this open door exists as the supposed supply conduit for the virtually non-existent “moderate” Syrian opposition that is an article of faith in Whitehall and Washington.
SpiritOf1683 says
If this is the case, we might be approaching the popcorn moment. Erdogan has been lying down with these dogs for years and surely must be covered in fleas, so we might see what happens when these fleas claim their blood.
John C. Barile says
Erdogan and the al-Thanis can go to perdition.
Bill Bacon says
Columns of the Satanic State’s armoured trucks would be a nice target for a properly planned and sufficient air strike. Too bad that Obama is still trying to figure out the difference between playing golf and playing president.
45Charlie says
Looks good on Erdogan. Cant trust Muslims period.
GP says
“Islamic State surges towards the borders of Turkey”
Recep Tayyip Erdogan is already prostrate before them. He must be a moderate.
el-cid says
Turkey is lost. With a fascist like Erdogan in power, it will look like ISIS or BE ISIS in 10 years. There is no getting rid of him. It is the end of Turkish democracy.
CogitoErgoSum says
Let ISIL take over all of Islam. Let the jihadis have Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Quatar, Lebanon, Syria…. and every nation on Earth which is currently majority Islamic. Let the low-hanging fruit be plucked and let a time of harvesting begin. Let the wheat be separated from the chaff. Let the world of Islam simmer and boil and distill itself into its purest essence. The silent majority of Muslims deserve no less than to eat and drink of that which they allow to be prepared for themselves. Then let the yoke of Islam’s purity be put upon every Muslim unwilling or unable to resist. Let the believers in submission submit to the fullest extent of their beliefs and let them pledge their allegiance to their Caliph and their Islamic State. On that day there will be no more “moderate” Muslims. There will be only “terrorists” following a terrorist leader and his decrees. On that day the infidels and those unwilling to submit will know the time has come to get on with the business of killing the Caliph and ridding the world of his mindless followers. On that day a fire that only smolders now will flare up and burn brighter and hotter than any that has come before it. Maybe then a vile ideology that has plagued mankind for nearly 1400 years will be left in cinders …. and it all will be accomplished with no qualms and with no remorse …. but at great cost.
Uncle Vladdi says
*Munches popcorn* I’ve waited centuries for the Turk to get his payback…
LET THE GAMES BEGIN!
😉
Woflgang says
As an Aussie……after the crap fight that was Galipoli…and after the slaughter of 1.2 million Christian Armenians……I can’t say I feel much empathy or sorrow for the Turks, when you sleep with fleas……They have been brutal during the Ottoman empire, why should we expect anything different now ?, now the lies stop soon and Turkey will show it real colours as will all the Arab world, after 1400 years a showdown is due.