After Hamas has broken six truces in a row, and after Obama and Kerry have repeatedly and indefatigably disregarded Hamas’s genocidal statements and open avowals that it would never accept a negotiated settlement or the existence of Israel in any form, this seems to be a reasonable request. “Don’t second guess me again: Netanyahu to US,” Associated Press, August 2, 2014:
WASHINGTON — Following the quick collapse of the cease-fire in Gaza, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told the White House not to force a truce with Palestinian militants on Israel.
Sources familiar with conversations between Netanyahu and senior U.S. officials, including Secretary of State John Kerry, say the Israeli leader advised the Obama administration “not to ever second guess me again” on the matter. The officials also said Netanyahu said he should be “trusted” on the issue and about the unwillingness of Hamas to enter into and follow through on cease-fire talks.
The Obama administration on Friday condemned “outrageous” violations of an internationally brokered Gaza cease-fire by Palestinian militants and called the apparent abduction of an Israeli soldier a “barbaric” action.
The strong reaction came as top Israeli officials questioned the effort to forge the truce, accusing the U.S. and the United Nations of being naive in assuming the radical Hamas movement would adhere with its terms. The officials also blamed the Gulf state of Qatar for not forcing the militants to comply.
With the cease-fire in tatters fewer than two hours after it took effect with an attack that killed two Israeli troops and left a third missing, President Barack Obama demanded that those responsible release the soldier.
Obama and other U.S. officials did not directly blame Hamas for the abduction. But they made clear they hold Hamas responsible for, or having influence over, the actions of all factions in the Gaza Strip. The language was a distinct change from Thursday when Washington was focused on the deaths of Palestinian civilians.
“If they are serious about trying to resolve this situation, that soldier needs to be unconditionally released as soon as possible,” Obama told reporters. He added that it would be difficult to revive the cease-fire without the captive’s release.
“It’s going to be very hard to put a cease-fire back together again if Israelis and the international community can’t feel confident that Hamas can follow through on a cease-fire commitment,” he said. His comment reflected uncertainty in the U.S. and elsewhere that Hamas was actually responsible for the incident or if some other militant group was to blame.
At the same time, Obama called the situation in Gaza “heartbreaking” and repeated calls for Israel to do more to prevent Palestinian civilian casualties.
Despite the collapse of the truce, Obama credited Kerry for his work with the United Nations to forge one. He lamented criticism and “nitpicking” of Kerry’s attempts and said the effort would continue.
Kerry negotiated the truce with U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon in a marathon session of phone calls over several days while he was in India on an official visit. Kerry had spent much of the past two weeks in Egypt, Israel, the West Bank and France trying to mediate a cease-fire with Qatar and Turkey playing a major role because of their close ties with Hamas.
Those efforts failed with Israel saying it could not trust Hamas and some Israelis and American pro-Israel groups complaining that the U.S. was treating the group — a foreign terrorist organization as designated by the State Department — as a friend.
Late Thursday, however, Israel accepted Kerry and Ban’s latest proposal, despite its reservations. Once the truce was violated, though, Israeli officials hit out at not only Hamas, but the United States and Qatar for its failure.
An Israeli official said the Netanyahu government viewed both Hamas and Qatar as having violated the commitment given to the U.S. and the U.N. and that it expected the international community to take practical steps as part of a “strong and swift response,” especially regarding the return of the abducted soldier.
In a phone call with U.S. Ambassador to Israel Dan Shapiro, Netanyahu vented his anger, according to people familiar with the call.
Netanyahu told Shapiro the Obama administration was “not to ever second-guess me again” and that Washington should trust his judgment on how to deal with Hamas, according to the people. Netanyahu added that he now “expected” the U.S. and other countries to fully support Israel’s offensive in Gaza, according to those familiar with the call. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter by name.
They said Netanyahu made similar points to Kerry, who himself denounced the attack as “outrageous,” saying it was an affront to assurances to respect the cease-fire given to the United States and United Nations, which brokered the truce.
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
… accusing the U.S. and the United Nations of being naive…
Naive? This is a kind word artfully used by AP to absolve the administration and the UN of the fact that they’re not being naive about Hamas, they *support* them.
This is like Fox RINO’s use of the word “overreach” to describe the many times Prez Barack Hussein, the great secular humanist globo-socialist, has willfuly seized power by overturning laws to populate America with illegal aliens, pay for illegal alien college tuitions, win elections by deferring legal deadlines in Obamacare, and help rig the 2012 election by use of the thugs at the IRS. And more.
Or like Fox RINO’s use of the word “incompetence” to describe the awful economic performance. He’s not incompetent, he’s doing what has to be done to force the nation’s conversion to socialism, which always involves diminished productivity and living standards.
Bibi doesn’t have naive incompetents in his face, they pretend to be that to achieve an elusive solution to an unsolvable situation, and do it in time for the November election. As Netanyahu knows, the solution can only further weaken Israel as a free and secure nation, and eventually destroy it.
wildjew says
You are more critical of Fox News than I am. I cannot argue with you.
I posted this elsewhere today:
Since I got Direct TV last month, I’ve been watching Fox News. Fox does a much better job covering this war with Hamas and the jihad than other news outlets but there is a terrible problem (Bret Baier, Megyn Kelly, Chris Wallace and the others) lamenting civilian deaths, children, etc. You CANNOT do that in war or the war is lost. Can you imagine U.S. media covering the second world war lamenting the deaths of German civilians? Last night Megyn Kelly interviewed “Son of Hamas,” Mosab Hassan Yousef the son of Hassan Yousef, who told Kelly Israel is fighting our war; fighting for civilization. Again Kelly lamented the deaths of Palestinian civilians, children.
wildjew says
http://video.foxnews.com/v/3708958549001/son-of-hamas-founder-doubts-end-to-israel-gaza-conflict-/#sp=show-clips
Megyn Kelly (2 minutes 42 seconds) asked Mosab Hassan Yousef: ” When you see these images we are seeing now of these Palestinian children looking scared, hurt confused — and I asked the current Israeli ambassador the United States about the fear that Israel in fighting this battle might be stoking the next generation of hate. Do you see that as a real risk and how do we stop this from happening?”
pennant8 says
I agree that Fox is a little better than most. I generally only watch Megyn Kelly and Sean Hannity. Sometimes I am shocked at their seemingly lack of understanding of Islam. For example Hannity likes to quote the apes and pigs reference made by various Muslim leaders and Kelly the other night mentioned the rocks and trees reference. Neither one of them seem to understand that these references come direct from Islamic scripture, and are not just some hostile remark dreamed up by today’s jihadists. Then again, maybe they do understand where those references come from but due to political correctness they avoid telling their audiences. Either way, not good.
wildjew says
Megyn Kelly asked Mosab Hassan Yousef: ‘When you see these images of these Palestinian children…do you see a real risk of that stoking the next generation of hate’? Yousef responded in part that Hamas has hijacked the Palestinian people. I don’t believe that any more than I believe the Nazis hijacked the German people.
TJFreedomJihad says
I also have been watching the incredible apparent naiveté on mohammadanism, on Fox on air types. I admire Hannity, due to his proudly incredible tell-off episode of chowdry (sp=intentional) However, clearly most have no intimate deep knowledge of the most important enemy they and every resident of America has or will ever have, the full turbo replacement of Nazis, on steroids as well, the ultimate evil for 1400 years, obvious to all who look and learn.
Clearly Fox management are running an imaginary fine line, even if they knew what most of us here know of mohammadanism, for on air advertiser’s revenues and viewership maintenance. Without them, there is no Fox. And there are limits of what dumb and self-centered Americans, can accept, even Fox types in the main. (Mostly Americans want money and to play and be entertained.)
Mostly, they want news, hard or otherwise, delivered by half naked girly girls, who can pass as intelligent or at least charming (to the younger set (personally I loved Thatcher best, the Iron Lady), to be entertaining to one degree or other, at least legs a-dangling.
Along with a giant list of lower class, unintelligent women that most of us would agree upon such as Pelosi, is this prime example best explained here: http://weaselzippers.us/195181-secret-service-agents-guarding-nasty-hillary-worst-duty-assignment-in-service/ She, like most, is mohammadan naïve, and on the payroll of those who would destroy us.
Superbly the opposite end of the spectrum from such an incredible example of a failed woman, is one who demonstrates all that a woman can be, PM Margaret Thatcher, may she RIP.
Ultimately, the problem revolves around a couple quotes, and a panel from a comic strip:
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
Douglas Arthur (1952-2001) English writer
Tolerance implies a respect for another person, not because he is wrong or even because he is right, but because he is human.
John Cogley (A truth sorely forever commanded lost upon mohammadans, forever, as the devil leader of evil commands!)
http://happyacres.tumblr.com/image/93596451439
Of course, the opinions expressed in this comment entry, as always, are strictly my own, and not part of the blog owners, which includes R. Spencer, of course.
(I studied the real final medina koran, hadiths, and sira. I know, and in knowing am so angry that so many are so gullible and stupid, until they learn of the devil’s true evil.)
voegelinian says
wildjew wrote:
” Yousef responded in part that Hamas has hijacked the Palestinian people. I don’t believe that any more than I believe the Nazis hijacked the German people.”
Some of our fellow commenters here on the hallowed pages of Jihad Watch have tried to argue essentially the same thing as Yousef. And then they have the temerity to attack me when I point out how grievously wrongheaded that is.
Richie says
The news on the right in the US has shifted to the left. Fox used to me on the right- I think they are sprinting to the left. MSNBC is so far left they are a parody of themselves. At times on FOX, Hannity and O’Reilly have come of as liberals, particularly in immigration . Leftists have been framing the narrative for a long time now, and the right goes along with it.
Greg says
When Iraq 1 was fought by GHW Bush and they killed 200,000 Iraqis on the road back from Kuwait and only lost 50 men, mostly from base or vehicle accidents, why was their no talk on the US networks about a asymetrical war? Why don’t the networks report the fact that more Arabs were killed by ISIS over the last week than by Israel? Where are the commentaries about the fact that ISIS is conducting an extermination of Christians in Syria and Iraq? Fox News is just another flavor of the same old S**t
gravenimage says
FOX News is definitely *much* better overall than is CNN, or the even worse MSNBC.
At least most of the hosts appear to actually hate the savagery of Jihad, and even this is refreshing.
But even the most principled pundits like Megyn Kelley and Sean Hannity seem dismayingly ignorant about Islam itself, and just how deep the tenets of Jihad reach.
Still, given the current climate, they are at least educating the public to some extent about the danger of Jihad and Shari’ah—and that is *far* more than I can say about most of their colleagues in the MSM.
voegelinian says
“At least most of the hosts appear to actually hate the savagery of Jihad, and even this is refreshing”
Refreshing if one’s standard is dying of thirst in a desert and being thus grateful for a drop of water for our parched tongue.
The problem is that supposedly Islamo-savvy pundits, commentators, analysts, and other assorted motley “experts” (including not a few veterans on Jihad Watch and Gates of Vienna and other anti-Islam sites online) talk tough in the context of the TMOE meme (the Tiny Minority of Extremists), but fall apart into an incoherent mass of PC MC jelly when the only pertinent issue is brought up: Mainstream Islam and all Muslims.
gravenimage says
Voegelinian, I agree with everything you say here.
The problem is that the MSM *is* an arid desert right now. Of course we should not be satisfied with that drop of water when we have the great, slaking bounty of figures like Robert Spencer and his erudite understanding and impassioned advocacy of standing against the great Jihad threat we face.
But this is things as they stand now. You actually have pundits on CNN, and even more so on MSNBC and other stations who serve up apologia for this hideous evil.
gravenimage says
Ah—one belabors a metaphor at one’s own risk.
Still, I hope my point was clear.
Bettina says
A corollary thought, re: obama’s open-door policy to illegals — has he been welcoming these populations because (1) he wants to turn the States brown, a more universal color than European-Americans are, and (2) because impoverished people are a solid democratic voting block?
There could be several other causes, equally as damaging to the integrity of America, which might surface much later… What a stenchy legacy he’ll be leaving behind: his betrayal of Western Judeo-Christian values, his paralysis in foreign affairs, his crazy postponement of several important firings on the home front, his muzzie-based anti-Semitism and betrayal of Israel…
Angemon says
RaymondofCanada says
“. . . repeated calls for Israel to do more to prevent Palestinian civilian casualties.” How about directing that to Hamas.
Richie says
The new paradigm is that Muslims, no matter if they kill, rape or steal, cannot be held accountable for their own depraved behavior.
frederick gibson says
The “New Paradigm” is 1,382 years old. Islamist have been
murderous rapist-brigands since the death of Mohammed, 632.
Hamas , as an organizational offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, goes back to 1928, founded by Hassan al Bhanna (sp). Their current “Global Jihad” is fostered in “Milestones” by Sayyid Qubt, hung by Egypt, 1966, for treason.
frederick gibson says
The “New Paradigm” is 1,382 years old. Islamist have been
murderous rapist-brigands since the death of Mohammed, 632.
Hamas , as an organizational offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, goes back to 1928, founded by Hassan al Bhanna (sp). Their current “Global Jihad” is fostered in “Milestones” by Sayyid Qubt, hung by Egypt, 1966, for treason.
SpiritOf1683 says
They were murdering and raping whilst Mohammed was still alive. During his lifetime we had the beheading of at least 800 unfortunate victims of the Jewish Banu Qurayza tribe. Everyone who wanted peace was fair game for him and his murdering thugs.
gravenimage says
Frederick, I believe Richie’s point about the “new paradigm” is not that Muslims kill, rape, and steal—which they have indeed been doing for over 1300 years—but that “politically correct” Westerners are now loath to hold them accountable for such barbarism.
Ashley says
This is where I trip over myself and get very intimidated. I don’t know my stuff well enough to constructively engage. Shit…it wasn’t long ago when the subject of Islam divorce (Talaq) was brought up and I referred to it as “Tequila.”
I hope I can earn my keep here for simply detesting Islam.
I’m powerless to debate…
Back to lurking…and learning. Best to you all, especially you graven, Champ, Philip, Merrin, Wellington, Meriem, and others that warmly greet me when I pop up.
And always to Mr. Spencer….
Ashley says
Thank you, Philip!
But sadly, I’m not doing “just fine.” I first came here about 10 years ago and “Marisol” was terrific with addressing my trepidation.
The sheer intelligence and knowledge of Islam on this board is WAY over my head. I feel like when I do contribute, I’ve ruffled some feathers. Tonight it was one “Richatd Sherman” on this very thread.
The comment directed to me was a kick to the teeth.
I’m NOT going anywhere! But it is spooky to actually participate here.
This is not about me or my over-sensitive feelings. Actually, I feel I have a relatively tough skin, but I’ve grown weary of the jabs and the kindness of others defending me…all the while we lose ground on the REAL issue…and as we all know, the clock is ticking.
I PROMISE to chime in when I feel I have something imperative to say.
Again, I’m NOT going away…just back to learning and lurking so I don’t speak out of my ass.
Love to you all!
Jay Boo says
Hi Ashley
I thought your comment was terrific
I don’t have a clue what is up with Richatd Sherman
As far as I can recall if my memory serves me correctly Richatd Sherman will occasionally pop in with the same quote about medina Muhammad killed 900 and then vanish for a while.
He has never picked on me (which is wise)
gravenimage says
Ashley, you’re doing fine.
In any case, no one has to “earn their keep”—this forum is open to all commenters.
And I realize that I stumble fairly often, myself—when I realize that my posts are sometimes full of typos, or else have unfortunate phrasing like my embarrassing “slaking bounty” comment above on this thread in my reply to Voegelinian. (yeesh—I do need to read my stuff before I post).
But standing against Jihad *is* the main point here—this is not a debating society. We all contribute here.
I always think of WWII and fighting the Nazis—not everyone was an RAF fighter pilot. Some people were “Rosie the Riveters” assembling those airplanes, some were designing inspirational posters, some were breaking Nazi code, some were behind enemy lines but were busy making fake passports for the Resistance or hiding their Jewish neighbors in their attics.
There are *all kinds* of ways to fight.
And don’t worry about richatd sherman—he either misunderstood your post or was way off base.
In any case, I agree with Philip and Jay Boo, Ashley—I always look forward to reading your comments.
Sten says
Regarding Richadt Sherman: Don’t worry, Ashley. My guess is that his comment was directed at me and he just got confused. I will willingly add his insult to my growing collection. Don’t let it ruin your day.
Regarding educating ourselves about Islam: I have dedicated much of my reading time for the past two years to understanding Islam, and I still have a long way to go. This is one of the great threats of our time. Westerners will turn the discussion about Islam into a pro/anti-Israel debate at our own peril.
Some of the books about Islam that I have read:
Radical by Maajid Nawaz
The Islamist by Ed Husain (Learn about Hizb ut Tahrir)
Sword of the Prophet by Serge Trifkovic (information packed)
What’s Really Wrong with the Middle East? by Brian Whitaker
The Closing of the Muslim Mind by Robert R. Reilly (this is a VERY important but difficult book explaining Muslim theology.)
The World Through Arab Eyes by Shibley Telhani
Civilization: the West and the Rest by Niall Ferguson (only a few chapters are relevant to Islam but the insights are essential)
Destiny Disrupted by Tamim Ansary
Chasing a Mirage by Tarek Fatah (another book that is packed with key information about current Islamic states)
Cruel and Unusual Punishment by Nonie Darwish (find out what sharia does to Muslims)
After the Prophet by Lesley Hazleton (basic Islamic history that explains the Sunni-Shiite split and absolutely essential info)
Coming up: Islamophilia by Douglas Murray, once I get an e-reader.
One thing I have learned is that almost everything “radical” Muslims do and think can be directly traced back to Mohammed and his early companions. Muslim power from the beginning was dependent on constant warfare, conquest, plunder and enslavement. The day that stopped, Muslim power waned.
“Radical” Muslims understand there is no return to the glory days without returning to conquest. Kidnapping schoolgirls in Nigeria is getting them nowhere. The whole Boko Haram thing must just add to their humiliation. The big loot is in the West and they know it. But they lack the technology and discipline to do anything, so we end up with this simmering rage in the Muslim world. Since a foundational myth of Islam is that Allah miraculously made early Muslims victorious over superior enemies, there is a belief that this will happen again if they can just return to that early religious fervor and purity. It is a religion of sacralized theft. I can’t see how it will ever be truly reformed, so now what do we do?
If Westerners don’t get educated fast, our importation of Muslims and their ideology is going to be a massive problem. And before anyone thinks I hate Muslims, let me say that the moderate, partially-practicing Muslims will be the first victims (my current book: Your Fatwa Does Not Apply Here by Karima Bennoune. Read it and weep.)
Mirren10 says
I really don’t think I can over-state my admiration for Mr Neteanyahu.
He is a real, true, **mensch**.
I would imagine the ghastly obama has been thoroughly taken aback by Bibi’s refusal to kowtow. obama has been so used to unquestioning adulation from the fools he surrounds himself with, and the uncritical admiration of all those idiots who voted for him, it must come as a considerable shock to his overweening ego, to realise that there is **one** statesman who refuses to swallow his bs.
Go, Bibi ! Finish the job, and spit in the face of all those who try to gainsay you. Your loyalty lies with Israel and your people, and their safety and **existence**, not a bunch of self-serving, smooth liars, who will throw Israel under the bus whenever it suits them.
Am Yisrael Chai !
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
And not only does he face Hamas, at the same time he faces Hizbullah, Syria, the Mo-Bro-Hood in Egypt, the Moslems in Jordan, the Islamic Caliphate in the Levant, and above all the soon-to-be-nuclear Persians.
Certain prior Israel Prime Ministers were not mensches, but, as an American, I envy that they were at least loyal to their nation and its laws, which hasn’t been the case here for some decades.
Gail Griffin says
Well said.
sten says
My suggestion to “Bibi”: if a nation gives you billions in aid, and disgraces itself by acting as your shill, do not publicly insult them before the world.
My suggestion to the diplomatic and political representatives of the United States: cut off Netanyahu and let him fight his war on his own without sucking the teat of the American taxpayer. I’m sick of paying for this fiasco.
Wellington says
You do not seem to realize that the fight Israel is presently fighting is not just for Israel but, in effect, for all of Western Civilization. Moreover, Obama, Kerry and their ilk are largely to completely clueless of this and therefore Netanyahu was in his right to dress down these woefully limited human beings in public.
I submit that the most important money, the best spent money, that America gives to so many nations and organizations abroad is the money America sends to Israel. BTW, I am not Jewish but I am an American.
Barook says
I totally agree with Wellington….. Israel is fighting for the entire world…. to preserve democracy. Let’s take for instance all the billions of dollars the US has given to Pakistan to fight terrorism. What has Pakistan done with that? Arming themselves to fight India (a democratic country in South Asia)… go figure.
WVinMN says
The only one disgracing himself is Obama…oh, and you.
Champ says
“stupid” needs to move to the ME and stat! …tired of your tax dollars being spent on Israel? Then pack your bags and take your $$ to buy a one-way ticket to hell. You need to gain a fresh perspective on things and moving over there is JUST the ticket.
Blangwort says
No, it’s a warning not to screw with an investment.
We spent billions of dollars so that it could be overrun by savages? Netanyahu is trying to tell this administration that they’re suffering from a very bad case of stupid.
The US is fully capable of not giving aid, if that’s what salves your feeble ego.
And you’re welcome to seek alliances with people who can’t even keep six cease fire agreements.
Ashley says
“I’m sick of paying for this fiasco.”
_______________________________
I’m sick of you attempting to introduce your vile anti-Semitic sentiments on a forum dedicated to the counter-jihad.
Champ says
Exactly, Ashley!
richatd sherman says
Obviously Ashley would have preferred to be on the 110th floor of the WTC on 9/11 to have enjoyed the hospitality of the Muslim people.
Ashley says
I’m not sure why you felt compelled to direct such a comment towards me…
gravenimage says
richatd sherman, why would you say that about Ashley? She is a staunch Anti-Jihadist, and there was nothing in her comments here to warrant such a response.
richard Sherman says
I may have been confused as to who had commented. If so I apologize to Ashley…just apply my comment to anyone who reveres the sociopath Muhammad.
Ashley says
Thank you, graven. I was stunned by the comment and haven’t the foggiest idea what inspired it.
Hopefully an explanation will be forthcoming.
Champ says
I’m not sure why you felt compelled to direct such a comment towards me…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nor I, Ashley …his remark doesn’t make any sense at all. Clearly he has reading comprehension problems.
Champ says
richatd sherman
August 2, 2014 at 4:36 pm
Obviously Ashley would have preferred to be on the 110th floor of the WTC on 9/11 to have enjoyed the hospitality of the Muslim people.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pfft! What’s ‘obvious’ is that you owe Ashley an apology …
Richard Sherman says
Already done..confused by first line..sorry
Richard Sherman says
Already done..confused by first line..sorry
Richard Sherman says
Already done..confused by first line..sorry
Ashley says
Thanks, Champ…again!
It appears “Richatd Sherman” has left the building.
The comment was particularly insensitive as I lost my college roommate on 9/11. It was her first time to New York City, and she was at breakfast at Windows on the World. She left behind a husband and 19-month old triplet daughters.
So to be told I would have preferred to have been on the 110th floor was a real fucking kick to the gut…
Richard Sherman says
I apologize. I was confused by the first line. Once again, my apologies.
gravenimage says
Ashley wrote:
The comment was particularly insensitive as I lost my college roommate on 9/11. It was her first time to New York City, and she was at breakfast at Windows on the World. She left behind a husband and 19-month old triplet daughters.
………………………..
I’m so sorry to hear that, Ashley. How awful.
Jay Boo says
My guess is that richatd sherman foolishly misinterpreted the first sentence in quotes that Ashley was replying to and read no further falsely assuming it to be from Ashley.
Yet there is only two sentences to read,
so it a bit lazy or impulsive to say the least.
Richard Sherman says
You are correct.my apology. To Ashley….Let us all remember the wisdom of Winston Churchill:”Islam in a man is as dangerous as rabies in a dog”.
Ashley says
Phew! Thanks for the clarification, Richard Sherman. Appreciate you taking the time to clear it up. I’m relieved to know it was just a simple misunderstanding.
gravenimage says
Richard Sherman
I may have been confused as to who had commented. If so I apologize to Ashley…just apply my comment to anyone who reveres the sociopath Muhammad.
…………………………
That makes sense, Richard—the first line was actually from the egregious “sten”. Asheley was just quoting him—*not* agreeing with him.
TH says
Well, maybe you would like a couple more 9/11´s or worse. If Isreal doesn’t fight these terorists and their likes, then it is ilkey that jihadist terrorism will proliferate even more around the world.
Bettina says
Well, you’re one hell of an ignoramus, ain’t ya? If you think the survival of Israel is a fiasco, one look at the mirror will tell you what a loser you are, when we all know that the billions the US gives to the ‘palestinians’ are used directly by hamas to shower rockets on Israel and send their low-life rats thru concrete tunnels to kill as many Israelis as possible.
You sure take the cake, where it comes to ignorance, and sporting it on your sleeve.
You should spend your time posting on all the pro-arab sites whose corrupt leaders suck on our taxpayer teat while sharpening their swords against all of civilization. You’re no more than a creep.
Get out of here before we throw you out.
gravenimage says
sten—who I cannot ever recall posting here before—wrote:
cut off Netanyahu and let him fight his war on his own without sucking the teat of the American taxpayer. I’m sick of paying for this fiasco.
……………………………….
sten—whoever you are—unless you are a Mohammedan yourself, the Jihadists are *coming for you*, as well.
Democratic Israel —our only true ally in the region—is the canary in the coal mine, and *nothing* would so embolden the Jihad as the destruction of Israel.
Even if you care nothing for the little Israel, you should consider that.
Mazo says
Arafat and the PLO trained the Armenian ASALA in Lebanon, to wage war to liberate western Armenian from Turkey. ASALA conducted bombings and assasinations on Turkish diplomats, and fought alongside the PLO against Israel in Lebanon.
While Arafat and the PLO were helping Christian Armenians, israel was helping supply, train, and upgrade Turkey’s militart, and the israael lobby helps block recognition of Armenian genocide in USA to maintain diplomatic relations with Turkey.
israel continues to aid Azerbaijan militarily to this day, while its Iran which sided with Armenia and keeps its border open with them.
Wonder why Armenians have those conspircay theories the Donmeh (Turkish cypto Jews) committed the Armenian genocide? Its israel’s attitude which feeds those conspiracy theories like fertilizer does to crops.
Yasser Arafat was friends with Serbian leader Slobodan Milosevic, who waged war against Albanian Muslims. Arafat invited Milosevic to Palestine to celebrate Orthodox Christmas. israel responded by threatening to arrest Milosevic and turn him over to the Hague. Milosevic issued condolences upon Arafat’s death.
Yasser Arafat also called Indian Hindu PM Indira Gandhi his “sister”.
gravenimage says
Mazo once again dredges up obscure Western inconsistencies and occasionally foolish alliances in a ludicrous effort to imply that either a) the West is just as bad as Islam, and has no moral authority, or b) things are just so dang complicated that one must never presume to take sides at all.
But the fact is that it is the very same sick ideology—Islam—that launched the Armenian Genocide and is now fueling both the ethnic cleansing of Christians and the drive to destroy Israel.
eib says
How Muslim of you.
You have no idea the line Israel is standing on, the very edge of Western civilization.
I suppose you’re tired of being a Westerner?
Tired of reason?
Tired of the wisdom of Christ?
45charlie says
Yes it needs saying to Obama . Ceasefires are a waste of time for Israel & only benefit Hamas. I wrote on several Israeli News sites how stupid it is to listen to the minority opinion & Obama. Finish the job !
Diane Harvey says
“barbaric” action,
Gee, that sounds almost like something that a “savage” might do.
jewdog says
I haven’t heard Obama or Kerry complain about the Hamas tactic of deliberately putting civilians in harm’s way. Could they really be that naïve, or is Obama better suited to be a community organizer after all, maybe in Baghdad?
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
He can’t do that. If he showed up in Baghdad the Mesopotamian Moslems would have no choice but to slash his throat because he is an apostate. You can’t count on Barack to be true to anything he says; but you can count on him to be true to the one thing he doesn’t say, that he’s a globo-socialist.
Jay Boo says
or Benghazi
Theb Nyip says
It’s been a rough couple of weeks lessons in international diplomacy for Barrack.
First he gets a lesson in how to deal with the Russians by Australian Prime Minister Abbott.
Now he gets a lesson in how to deal with islamists by Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu.
What will be next? A lesson in how to deal with budget deficits by the Norwegian Prime Minister (Wikipedia lists Norway as having the highest budged surplus).
umbra says
This community organiser is clearly not cut out to handle anything beyond the size of a Chicago neighbourhood. Certainly, when it comes the international community, he has floundered again and again, following others from behind rather than lead from the front.
Walter Sieruk says
Obama since just last month he has released most of the sanction on Iran no valid reason. For Iran sure didn’t do anything good to warrant the lifting of the sanctions. So since more sanctions were lifted in Iran. Iran has then send more support to the murderous Islamic terror group, Hamas. Obama seems to be the king of folly ! As for the word Hamas. it is explained in the book IRAN AND ISRAEL by Mark Hitchock.Which informs the reader on page 82. ” ‘Hamas’ is an Arabic acronym for Islamic Resistance Movement, it means ‘zeal.’ Since its inception, Hamas has been committed to destroying the Jewish State and replacing it with an Islamic state…”
A good number of Muslims at heart may feel that this is a good idea. That only shows just how Islam can warp the mind and soul of a person.
Jay Boo says
Iran is the real problem
As long as Iran feeds Hamas and keeps Sunni Islam focused on Israel it deflects attention from its apostate status in Sunni Islam as revealed by ISIS.
gravenimage says
Jay Boo wrote:
Iran is the real problem
As long as Iran feeds Hamas and keeps Sunni Islam focused on Israel it deflects attention from its apostate status in Sunni Islam as revealed by ISIS.
…………………………..
Hi, Jay Boo. Iran did fund Hamas for years—along with Hizb’allah—in part to assert its “leadership” in the Jihad against Israel.
But when the Sunni Jihad in Syria heated up, and with Iran continuing to back Alawite-pro-Shi’ite Assad, Hamas took the Sunni side.
I’ve heard both that Hamas has rejected further funding from Iran as a result, and alternatively that Iran cut them off as a result.
Whatever the case, Iranian funding of Hamas is either much diminished now, or else stopped entirely.
Here’s a story from a story from late last year:
“Turkey replaces Iran as primary funding source for Hamas”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/12/turkey-replaces-iran-as-primary-funding-source-for-hamas
“With Sunni-Shi’ite tensions coming to a boil in Iraq and Syria, funding Sunni Hamas is less attractive to the Shi’ite Iranians than it once was. And so rapidly re-Islamizing Turkey steps into the breach…”
I believe you commented on that story at the time.
But despite Iran’s no longer bankrolling Hamas, I agree with you that they are still absolutely committed to Israel’s destruction. They are still funding Hizb’allah, and still calling for Israel to be “wiped off the map”.
Jay Boo says
gravenimage
You are absolutely correct
I forgot about the shifting sand of Hamas and Iran
gravenimage says
Thanks, Jay Boo.
Hard to keep the shifting internecine infighting of Mohammedans straight—God knows.
And whatever their current alliances, both “flavors” of Islam want to see Israel “driven into the sea”. *Ugh*.
Gail Griffin says
Fox news has had the son of Hama’s co-founder on yesterday. The young man is Christian and against Hama’s. He dispargaged the notion that it was a humanitarian organization as Nancy Palosi said to reporters.
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
I wonder if Ladbroke’s will keep book on when he will be executed in the name of Allah by Moslems following the commands in the Holy Ko-Ran.
Beagle says
Allegedly he is a lot different when speaking in Arabic in the Middle East. I searched on him last night. I believe Jihad Watch covered the controversy in 2011. BRB…
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/05/did-son-of-hamas-mosab-hassan-yousef-dupe-the-counter-jihad-movement
Still a lot better than his father.
gravenimage says
Thanks for the reminder, Beagle.
Walter Sieruk says
The State of Israel has ever right to defend itself . That is just what it is doing in Gaza because of the murderous rockets attacks send over the border into Israel as well as other vicious and deadly violence engaged in by the Hamas member against Israeli citizens. Any sane nation would also result to strong action to protect its citizens. Furthermore, Hamas has not stopped at the murders of Israeli citizens but Hamas is also responsible for the death of many Arabs. Hamas has in its history murdered seventeen Americans and wounded over hundred more Americans. [1] Moreover, Obama has has a hand in encouraging some of the heinous and murderous violence of Hamas,For example,in spite of it being designated as a terrorist organization, Obama sends Hamas much support. An example of that is in the year 2011 Obama has sent twenty three million to Hamas of American taxpayers money. [2]
[1]Source- ACTFORAMERCICA.ORG a disc from its National Conference of 2010
[2] Source- Liberty Counsel Action, a disc from one of its meetings
Sten says
Oh, yes? I get that this website is pro-Israel.
I, myself, am pro-American and I have no patience for any American who puts another nation before their own. We have been living with the fallout of Israel’s inability to come to terms with the Palestinians for 40 years, we have expended inestimable amounts of money, time and energy that could have been directed toward the American people and their needs on the endless distractions of this conflict.
I do not find it amusing when Netanyahu makes a remark that is rude at best and threatening at worst towards the office of the President of the United States. He doesn’t like the US policy? Then we should take our money, which we have foolishly expended on this piddling state, our UN veto and our diplomatic energies, and go home. His emissaries can be dumped on their behinds out of Washington DC and sent packing back to Israel. We can throw him to the mercies of Europe, Asia and Africa and let him make his snide little remarks to them and see if he still has a trading partner left on earth. He can have the membership of Jihad Watch send him a $30.00 check every month and see how he can support his socialistic state on that money.
Message to Netanyahu: An insult to the diplomatic representatives of the United States, is an insult to me. Keep a civil tongue in your head and don’t “ever” insult the hand that feeds you again.
Angemon says
Islamist shill posted:
“I, myself, am pro-American and I have no patience for any American who puts another nation before their own.”
So being pro-Israel means putting Israel in front of the US? Dumbass, Israel is fighting the same fight as the US – the fight against islamic supremacy.
“We have been living with the fallout of Israel’s inability to come to terms with the Palestinians for 40 years”
Maybe if other countries, like the US, weren’t constantly pushing Israel into “land for peace” or other kind of idiotic concessions things would be different now.
“we have expended inestimable amounts of money, time and energy that could have been directed toward the American people and their needs on the endless distractions of this conflict.”
So, about that American tax-payer money going to countries that finance the same kind of ideology that Israel and the US are fighting against…
“Message to Netanyahu: An insult to the diplomatic representatives of the United States, is an insult to me.”
Then Bibi should be even harsher with Obama and the US administration. You clearly don’t grasp the basics of the situation and deserve to be insulted. Now go flip out like a muslim somewhere else and take your anti-semitism with you. But not before apologizing to Netanyahu first. See, if you’re going to claim that an “insult” to a diplomatic representatives of the US is an insult to you then you must accept that an insult from a member of the US government to Netanyahu is an insult from you, and Obama hasn’t exactly been kind to Bibi:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/07/obama-to-netanyahu-i-expect-israel-to-stop-all-its-military-actions-unilaterally
WVinMN says
I don’t consider you an American, a patriot or having the cognitive ability to fry an egg without a tutor. I do realize that you’re a bigoted, anti semite piece of filth attempting (poorly) to mask your hatred for the ONLY US ALLY IN THE ME!
45charlie says
Sten is an idiot!
Champ says
True, but you’re being too kind; and I’m a lady so “idiot” will have to suffice.
Mirren10 says
”Oh, yes? I get that this website is pro-Israel”
Well, if you get that, then why are you wasting your time, and ours, with your anti-Israel rants ?
”We have been living with the fallout of Israel’s inability to come to terms with the Palestinians for 40 years”
Either you are extremely ill-informed, or you assume we are. Why hasn’t Israel been able to ‘come to terms’ as you put it, with the ‘palestinians’ ? Because every time Israel tries to deal with them, she is subjected to an endless barrage of accusations of being ‘disproportionate’, blah blah. Israel has bent over backwards to try to make peace; withdrawing from Gaza, under pressure from the the US and the UN, a case in point. The idea was that Gaza would become a viable state.
What happened ? They spent all the **aid** on tunnels and weaponry, instead of creating a productive life for themselves. And use Gaza as a platform to attack Israel. Every ceasefire that Israel has agreed to, pressured by obama and the UN, Hamas has broken.
And now, yet again, after the **sixth** time Gaza has shown its utter untrustworthiness, obama and the UN are **still** pressurising **Israel**, not Hamas.
And Netanyahu has finally had enough, and has had the balls to say so.
You haven’t expressed any anger and insult at the fact that **Pakistan** has received **billions** in aid from the US, and not only thumbs its nose at the US, but knowingly and deliberately harboured bin laden, the pos who orchestrated the murder of 3,000 of your countrymen. Any outage about that ?
No, you reserve your ‘outrage’ for a tiny country, with its back against the wall, which is desperately fighting for its very existence, with little or no support from those who purport to be its allies.
Your ‘outrage’ at Netanyahu’s ballsy response to your pusillanimous obama is nothing more than thinly disguised Jew-hatred.
Direct your outrage towards where it belongs.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/08/pakistan-used-u-s-anti-terror-military-aid-to-buy-equipment-to-fight-india
gravenimage says
Hear, hear, Mirren!
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
I, myself, am pro-American and I have no patience for any American who puts another nation before their own.
I, myself, am pro-American and I have no patience for any American who argues for letting another free nation be steamrolled by the Moslems to let them bring their freedom-flattening Jihad here.
We have been living with the fallout of Israel’s inability to come to terms with the Palestinians for 40 years…
You’re 8 years off, the Palestinians were invented in 1966, after the Arabs lost the Six-Day War and decided to transform the Bedouins in the Holy Land into Palestinians.
I do not find it amusing when Netanyahu makes a remark that is rude at best and threatening at worst towards the office of the President of the United States.
I didn’t see you in here protesting rudeness when the media smiled, laughed joked and celebrated at the video of the Moslem “reporter” throwing a shoe at the awful Prez Dubya.
Sten says
Jew-hatred, blah, blah. I cannot even proclaim my loyalty to my own nation first and foremost without being accused of being “filth”. This is disgusting and it is getting you nowhere fast. The fact that an American cannot have an opinion about foreign policy without Netanyahu’s permission is a sad degradation of our national sovereignty. As for foreign aid: Have we given Nigeria $233.7 billion? No? Then let’s stop talking about Nigeria. There is no such thing as free money, and we all know it. Israel is subsidized by us, and if they want to get off our payroll then, and only then, they can tell us to shove it. Even they are aware of that. If you are not aware of it, then you should read some of their press. Obama shouldn’t be saying a thing to them. He should make every cent of US taxpayer money contingent on Israel acting in ways that align to US interests. What are we, some kind of charity? Then he won’t have to “talk nice” to them. Either they cooperate, or dad cuts off their weekly allowance.
How come the discussion of Muslim fundamentalism and its dangers to the world always has to be predicated by an oath of loyalty to Israel? If I criticize Islam, I will be accused in many quarters of being a Zionist. If I criticize a foreign leader for insulting and degrading the office of the President with his comments, I am a filthy anti-Semite. My fellow Americans either cannot distinguish between Obama and the Office he represents or do not care in their eagerness to defend a foreign country at the expense of their own. Ugh. No wonder al Qaeda are running free all over the world.
Wellington says
“How come the discussion of Muslim fundamentalism and its dangers to the world always has to be predicated by an oath of loyalty to Israel?”
Because, doofus, the two are as interrelated as interrelation could ever possibly be. Israel is the canary in the cave in the coal mine which is Western Civilization. You know this or should know it.
Supporting Israel by those of us in the West who undertand what Israel truly represents is as good as supporting ALL of Western Civilization. Deny this and you are not only deceitful, but clueless.
There are four models for the future of mankind out there—–the Islamic model, the Anglo-American model (which contemporary Britain and the Obama Administration are presently in the process of destroying), the Western European social-democratic model and the traditional authoritarian model, as evidenced in our times by Russia under Putin and the bastards running China.
Of all four, the worst of this group is the Islamic model. Put another way, though I would prefer by far to live in a polity that is based on the traditional Anglo-American model enacted to its fullness, I would still, infinitely, were the traditional Anglo-American model no longer an option, to live under the social-democratic model (wimpy, stupid and underwhelming as it is) or the standard authoritarian model. Yeah, the Islamic model comes in last.
Do you get this? I mean do you really GET THIS? I am of the opinion, of the conviction, you don’t. But go ahead and prove me wrong here. Your turn.
Ashley says
Applaud! Applaud!
Angemon says
Adolf posted:
“ I cannot even proclaim my loyalty to my own nation first and foremost without being accused of being “filth”.”
Drop the sob story dumbass, you’re not fooling anyone. It’s one thing to proclaim loyalty to your country, it’s another to nackstab Israel and let it fight a common foe alone. If you’re truly loyal to your nation then you would stand with your nation’s allies who are fighting a common foe so you don’t have to. Instead you opt for a keyboard-commando “you don’t keep your head down and do what i say instead of what’s best for you? Then no soup for you”. Go take a long walk of a short pier.
“The fact that an American cannot have an opinion about foreign policy without Netanyahu’s permission is a sad degradation of our national sovereignty.”
Your insistence in saying that US should dictate what Netanyahu does and thinks seems straight of an american stereotype and it’s one of the reasons americans are not well liked around the world – because they think they can tell other people what’s best for them. You speak of national sovereignty – what sort of “national sovereignty” does the US have in Israel? Israel is not telling the US how act in the US territory. It’s exactly the other way around – you’re upset because Israel prioritizes its best interests and does not abide by what Obama and his lackeys bark:
http://www.politifake.org/image/political/1105/obamas-obama-israel-jews-stabbed-in-the-back-political-poster-1305939388.jpg
“ There is no such thing as free money, and we all know it. Israel is subsidized by us, and if they want to get off our payroll then, and only then, they can tell us to shove it. Even they are aware of that. If you are not aware of it, then you should read some of their press. Obama shouldn’t be saying a thing to them. He should make every cent of US taxpayer money contingent on Israel acting in ways that align to US interests.”
Ha ha, what a joke! Obama, acting upon US interests?
http://lettingfreedomring.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/obama-pointing-finger-at-bibi1.jpg
“ What are we, some kind of charity? Then he won’t have to “talk nice” to them. Either they cooperate, or dad cuts off their weekly allowance.”
How many millions are going to nations who sponsor islamic terrorist? Remember Bin Laden hiding in plain sight on an allied nation who is getting US cash? Didn’t see you foaming at the mouth at that. It seems Israel is… personal to you.
“How come the discussion of Muslim fundamentalism and its dangers to the world always has to be predicated by an oath of loyalty to Israel?”
Nice try buster, but you didn’t try to discuss islamic fundamentalism.
“If I criticize Islam, I will be accused in many quarters of being a Zionist.”
Not here you weren’t, so cut the act.
“ If I criticize a foreign leader for insulting and degrading the office of the President with his comments, I am a filthy anti-Semite.”
Your president had it coming. Also, what’s “insulting” or “degrading” in Bibi telling Obama to let him run his country as he sees fit? Bibi was smoking terrorists when Obama was smoking weed. And if you’re too dumb to understand and you’re just going to pretend it’s a matter of patriotism keep this in mind: “patriotism” is often linked to “right-wing gun-loving bible thumping extremists”. And “right-wing gun-loving bible thumping extremists” side with Israel and against Obama.
“My fellow Americans either cannot distinguish between Obama and the Office he represents or do not care in their eagerness to defend a foreign country at the expense of their own.”
When Obama’s office is acting upon Obama’s policies then there’s no difference to be made. And how is supporting Israel somehow endangering the US?
“Ugh. No wonder al Qaeda are running free all over the world.”
Thank Obama and his islamophilia for it.
Jay Boo says
Sten
If two-faced Morsi loving fellow Muslim Obama would stop making Cairo speeches and funding the Muslim Brotherhood’s proxies on Israel’s doorstep Israel would need less financial backing.
You need to stop reading former dhimmi President Jimmy Carter’s memoires about his fond memories of assisting PLO Arafat in obtaining an illicit Nobel Peace Prize just like traitor Obama.
WVinMN says
If you don’t appreciate being referred to as filth, than don’t act like, well…FILTH! And only a brain addled, obnoxious piece of FILTH would fail to understand that the obliteration of Hamas by Israel IS INDEED in the best interests of US foreign policy. That is, if you actually believe in freedom, liberty and the type of influence the US should project throughout the world. Given that you’re a marxist, the mere mention of “Israel”, “Zionism” or “Jew” is akin to an anti semite dog whistle! Really gets the mouth foaming, huh Sten?
Jacksonl03 says
“If I criticize a foreign leader for insulting and degrading the office of the (US) President . . . ”
You will seem a bit ignorant: No one, foreign leader, et al. can exceed the self imposed insulting and degrading behavior of Obama & Co. with respect to the current ME war.
Damn! I wish we could find our own Netanyahu.
Champ says
Oh, yes? I get that this website is pro-Israel.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indeed it is!
The majority here understand what it means to do the right thing by supporting Israel and Netanyahu–but hey folks like you, do not. So I would like to invite you to LEAVE and take your ugly complaints to some nasty ‘islamic website’ where your wrongheaded attitude and comments will be most welcome.
Now split cause y’er giving us a headache …
AnneM says
God Bless Israel!
What it all comes down to is let Israel finish the job.
gravenimage says
More from Sten:
Oh, yes? I get that this website is pro-Israel.
I, myself, am pro-American and I have no patience for any American who puts another nation before their own…
……………………………..
Israel is *our ally*. Supporting Israel is not ‘putting another nation before our own’.
I believe the question is more why you *don’t* support Israel—a democratic nation—against the genocidal barbarians who want to see her destroyed?
More:
We have been living with the fallout of Israel’s inability to come to terms with the Palestinians for 40 years…
……………………………..
This would be like describing America’s experience during WWII as “living with the fallout of Britain’s inability to come to terms with the Nazis”.
In both cases, a Fascist enemy is bent on the *absolute destruction* of a key ally.
More:
…we have expended inestimable amounts of money, time and energy that could have been directed toward the American people and their needs on the endless distractions of this conflict.
……………………………..
You find the fight against Jihad a “distraction”?
How many 9/11s would it take before you consider opposing Jihad to be one of America’s needs?
*Nothing* would so embolden Jihadists against America and the rest of the West as the destruction of Israel.
On the other hand, perhaps that is what you are hoping for?
More:
I do not find it amusing when Netanyahu makes a remark that is rude at best and threatening at worst towards the office of the President of the United States…
……………………………..
Do you have an issue with pious Muslims, who regularly overtly threaten to kill or depose the American president? It seems not…
More:
He doesn’t like the US policy? Then we should take our money, which we have foolishly expended on this piddling state…
……………………………..
Is this another version of calling Israel a “shitty little country”? *Ugh*.
In truth, Israel is a vibrant, innovative, democratic state. Do you prefer the nature of the states surrounding Israel, which are oppressive and rife with violence? Perhaps you like the new “Caliphate”, where others who hate Israel are lining the streets with the severed heads of their enemies and women are stoned to death?
More:
…our UN veto…
……………………………..
So you recommend siding with the Islamic OIC nations who slam Israel—and coddle their own evil polities—out of spite? How can you call yourself an American?
Chances are, of course, that you are not—not in any way that really counts, at least…
Ashley says
Sorry, Sten. But you had it coming.
I’ve been sticking around for gravenimage to take you to task.
Now I feel sated…
Sten says
My, what a glut of name-calling we have here. It is as if you people think I am taking your comments personally, and I will lie awake agonizing over being called a “dumbass” or “Adolph” by someone who can only engage in an argument by flinging around ad hominem attacks.
What I really love is the person who says I don’t get it. I have concluded that I am not really talking to any loyal Americans here, so I’ll try a different argument that should appeal to people who are craven to Israel rather than their own nation. Tell me how stupid the below scenario is:
Let’s say I have a big, burly bodyguard called Big Bob. Bob is always taking care of me and buying me stuff, like an Iron Dome missile defense system and as many peanut M&Ms as I want. He takes my side at UN Elementary School regardless of whether I’m right or wrong, and keeps all the other kids off my back.
So here’s what I do: One day Big Bob disagrees with something I do, and I don’t appreciate that. So I publicly insult Big Bob in front of all the other kids that he has been defending me from. I make him look ineffectual and weak and stupid with my smarmy comments, because I’m so clever. Maybe I spit in his face. Maybe I slap him a few.
Now that I have degraded, insulted and belittled my main and possibly only ally in the world, the other kids no longer respect him. The next time Big Bob says or does anything to defend me, the other kids just laugh in his face, because I already established his stupidity and weakness, right?
I won and got back at Big Bob for disagreeing with me, but I lost my bodyguard and financier. Now where are my peanut M&Ms?
The sad, or not-so-sad, fact about Israel and its little fan club on this board is that they are incapable of realizing that in their lust to shame, degrade and insult their main ally over some point of policy, they are both destroying popular American support for Israel and also dragging down any lingering regard the world might have had for us. The world is watching Obama be slapped down like a disobedient prostitute by his pimp Netanyahu.
Angemon says
Adolf posted:
“ It is as if you people think I am taking your comments personally, and I will lie awake agonizing over being called a “dumbass” or “Adolph” by someone who can only engage in an argument by flinging around ad hominem attacks.”
Once again, you show you’re unable to grasp the very basics. No one here “can only engage in an argument by flinging around ad hominem attacks“, it’s just that people here despise your ideas and demonstrate it as best as they can while they explain you why you’re wrong.
“Let’s say I have a big, burly bodyguard called Big Bob.”
And that’s where you analogy fails. Israel isn’t supposed to be a bodyguard. Israel is supposed to be a friend and ally to the US. And the US is being rude and trying to force his friend and ally to run things in his country according to how the US thinks it’s better, despite all evidence to the contrary. So Big Bob has the right to tell you “STFU”.
“The sad, or not-so-sad, fact about Israel and its little fan club on this board is that they are incapable of realizing that in their lust to shame, degrade and insult their main ally over some point of policy, they are both destroying popular American support for Israel and also dragging down any lingering regard the world might have had for us.”
Nope. Obama is the one destroying the US reputation in the world with his endless grovel before muslim supremacists (does the phrase “the future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of islam” rings a bell?), “red lines” in Syria, telling Putin he’ll be “more flexible” after the election, Benghazi and not protecting its borders.
Tell us Adolf, why is it that the US can take abuse and grovel from muslim countries but the moment Bibi tells the US he’ll run his country the way he sees fit you start foaming at the mouth and posting rubbish?
Champ says
The world is watching Obama be slapped down like a disobedient prostitute by his pimp Netanyahu.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sten is gifted at *exaggeration* …
Sten says
Your unbelievable comment:
<>
Of course Israel isn’t the bodyguard! Why would I call a state the size of New Jersey that depends on foreign aid to support itself a bodyguard?
No, the big, dumb, burly bodyguard for Israel is the United States. We have funded them, armed them and defended them in flagrant disregard for our own self-interest. Because of people like you.
So here is what I was trying to say:
1. The United States is Israel’s big, stupid bodyguard.
2. If you want your bodyguard to be effective, everyone else needs to respect and be wary of him.
3. When Netanyahu humiliates his big, asinine bodyguard, the United States, in front of the world, with his snarky, insulting comments, he is making his OWN ALLY look weak. (Let me acknowledge that our own Executive has done more to establish us as a rudderless ship than anyone, but why make it worse? Remember how I fruitlessly tried to explain to you the difference between the Office of the President and the person who happens to BE President?)
4. So, to all you folks who love Israel more than your own country, and that is most of you, please consider how impolitic it is for Israel to contribute to the public degradation of the only country on the planet powerful enough, willing enough and stupid enough to defend Israel in the public forum. It is like cutting off your nose to spite your face, for Pete’s sake!
Why don’t you start calling Netanyahu, who is wrecking your relationships with Israel’s handful of allies, some insulting names like “Adolph”? No neo-Nazi or two-bit anti-Semite could do worse damage to Israel than pointlessly dissing the President of the United States with a threat that sounds like it came out of Cartman’s mouth on an episode of South Park: “Don’t you EVAH second guess me again!”
Of course, I will probably get called a number of names again for pointing all of this out, but I feel I deserve to be punished for trying to reason with you people.
Angemon says
Adolf posted:
“Of course Israel isn’t the bodyguard! Why would I call a state the size of New Jersey that depends on foreign aid to support itself a bodyguard?
No, the big, dumb, burly bodyguard for Israel is the United States. We have funded them, armed them and defended them in flagrant disregard for our own self-interest. ”
Israel is the one putting boots on the ground and fighting the Hamas in Gaza. Not the US, who wants Israel to surrender unconditionally. Worst. Bodyguard. Ever.
“2. If you want your bodyguard to be effective, everyone else needs to respect and be wary of him.”
Once again, it’s not Bibi’s fault that the US are not feared and/or respected. You have your politicians and their foreign policies to thank for. Threating with an attack for crossing a supposed red line in Syria and backing down from it, supporting islamic “extremist” groups during the so called “arab spring”, keeping silent when protesters in Iran protested against the islamic government… It’s because of crap like that the US are no longer respected or feared, and it’s because of crap like that that Bibi knows that the US don’t have Israel’s best interest in mind.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gobTN3kaVgE/T3CzGmpC75I/AAAAAAAAEhg/ClvmapTHLlQ/s1600/happiness-you-know-it-when-you-see-it-thou-shall-not-burn-t-politics-1331737674.jpg
http://paladin.typepad.com/files/obama_sucking_muclime_dick_a00e54fb9aa7d8833017615194573970c580wi.gif
Angemon says
Adolf posted:
“I deserve to be punished for trying to reason with you people.”
HELL NO!!!!
WHAT DO YOU MEAN “YOU PEOPLE”?!?!?!
Sten says
Here is your unbelievable comment that I referred to in the above:
“And that’s where you analogy fails. Israel isn’t supposed to be a bodyguard. Israel is supposed to be a friend and ally to the US.”
And I will throw in another unbelievably foolish comment because I cannot resist:
“Tell us Adolf, why is it that the US can take abuse and grovel from muslim countries but the moment Bibi tells the US he’ll run his country the way he sees fit you start foaming at the mouth and posting rubbish?”
Let me tell you why, Fyodor I, my dear bell-ringer. The Muslim countries, with very few exceptions, are run by nut jobs. How about Gaddafi, did anyone take seriously a single thing he said in the world forum? Sadaam Hussein, that sadistic lunatic? Turkmenbashi, with his bizarre personality cult? The genocidal tribal leaders who rule Afghanistan? Since when is the United States groveling to them? We mostly ignore what they say, because we have better things to do than to listen to the ramblings of crazy people.
Should we put Netanyahu in that category? Is that what you want? Good idea. Why does he keep showing up at the White House or on TV, spouting his opinions and getting press time in my country? I am in full favor of marginalizing him and considering his opinions to be totally un-newsworthy. In fact, I consider that to be his rightful place in our national dialogue: not present. WE decide our position regarding Israel and the Palestinians. Then we base our policy, including weapons sales, foreign aid, public pronouncements and UN representation accordingly.
Angemon says
Adolf posted:
“The Muslim countries, with very few exceptions, are run by nut jobs. How about Gaddafi, did anyone take seriously a single thing he said in the world forum? Sadaam Hussein, that sadistic lunatic? Turkmenbashi, with his bizarre personality cult? The genocidal tribal leaders who rule Afghanistan? Since when is the United States groveling to them?”
Many, if not all, of those countries openly preach slogans like “death to America”. Are they embargoed like Cuba? No, they’re not. In fact, you might want to do your homework and figure out how much Afghanistan and/or Pakistan get from the US. What would you call giving money to someone who openly hates you and calls for your destruction, money which much more often than not ends up financing “extremist”, anti-US organizations? What would you call to bow down before the king of Saudi Arabia, arguably the world’s biggest sponsor of terrorism, who spent billions of dollars financing mosques in the US who preach US hate propaganda?
But according to the anti-semite pea you have in place of a brain, all the fault lies with Bibi not letting Obama tell him how to run his fight against hamas.
“Should we put Netanyahu in that category? Is that what you want? Good idea.”
That you try to compare Israel’s unwillingness to let the US tell it how to run his fight against terrorism to states who actively speak against the US, if not outright fund groups who are actively trying to destroy the US, is very telling of your bias and inability to see things how they are. You already made up your mind: Israel is to be blamed for how the rest of the world perceives the US and you’re working backwards from it. Jews make an excellent scapegoat, don’t they?
“I am in full favor of marginalizing him and considering his opinions to be totally un-newsworthy. In fact, I consider that to be his rightful place in our national dialogue: not present. WE decide our position regarding Israel and the Palestinians.”
The you’ll certainly be glad to know that your government already made up his mind about Israel and the “palestinians”. And they’re certainly not siding with Israel, the only democratic state in the ME – tell me who your friends are and I’ll tell you who you are. In fact, IIRC, a couple of years ago Obama said which leaders he shared a “bond of friendship and trust” with (or something along those lines) and he mentioned Erdogan (the reislamizing PM of Turkey) while leaving out Netanyahu. That’s very telling of which side his bread is buttered on.
But you’re upset because Israel isn’t being a good little dhimmi and refuses to follow sheik Obama’s directions on how to do things in Israel. Good. It means Bibi’s doing the right thing. If he’s getting flack then he’s over the target.
Now, WHAT DO YOU MEAN “YOU PEOPLE”?!?!?!
Sten says
“Now, WHAT DO YOU MEAN “YOU PEOPLE”?!?!?!”
I love it. This is just the kind of thing that extremist Muslims get offended over: some perceived slight, as all the while they freely denigrate and malign anyone who doesn’t agree with them.
I mean “you people” on this board who cannot understand reason because you are so blinded by passion. Who else would I mean?
“That you try to compare Israel’s unwillingness to let the US tell it how to run his fight against terrorism to states who actively speak against the US, if not outright fund groups who are actively trying to destroy the US, is very telling of your bias and inability to see things how they are. ”
This is the last time I am going to say this, because it is getting embarrassing. It is clear that you, and Israel, have no concept of diplomacy or political cunning. It will be Israel’s downfall, but that is not my problem. Here is my advice in a nutshell:
It is a bad idea to publicly insult one of your major allies.
That is the last time I will say it. You are entitled to your opinions and Netanyahu can represent Israel in any way he chooses.
The power of America is waning. The evangelical right is waning. America has unwisely imported countless Muslims who now are influencing public opinion. The Internet allows people to bypass the mainstream press in favor of diverse opinions. All this means that the arrogance and abrasiveness of Israel towards America worked in the old days, but those days are ending. Now Israel will have to use its brain and not just its testosterone. Israel is no longer guaranteed of the US as an ally, and it will have to start playing its cards smarter.
Your paragraph itself is a little hard to understand.
Angemon says
Adolf posted:
“It is a bad idea to publicly insult one of your major allies.”
You mean, like Obama did when he demanded an unconditional cease-fire from Israel? Oh, wait, Obama never really cared for Israel.
“The power of America is waning.”
And like i said several times before, with examples, you have the Obama administration to thank for it. Red line in Syria, Benghazi, bowing down to the Saudi King…
“The evangelical right is waning. America has unwisely imported countless Muslims who now are influencing public opinion.”
You must want to live under sharia law since you’re telling Israel, who is fighting an islamic terrorist group, to do as the muslim-influenced US says and stop fighting the islamic terrorists.
“Your paragraph itself is a little hard to understand.”
That’s because either you’re an imbecile or you don’t have counter-arguments.
Ashley says
Sten says: “This is the last time I am going to say this, because it is getting embarrassing.”
______________
Woo hoo!! I won the lottery without even buying a ticket!
gravenimage says
Yet more from Sten:
My, what a glut of name-calling we have here. It is as if you people think I am taking your comments personally, and I will lie awake agonizing over being called a “dumbass” or “Adolph” by someone who can only engage in an argument by flinging around ad hominem attacks.
………………………………….
Sten was replying to Ashley’s reply to my post. I used no insults or ad hominem attacks whatsoever, and addressed his comments point by point. He has chosen to ignore this completely—likely because he has no real counter argument.
As for the idea that I have some desire for him to “agonize” over my comments, this is never the case.
Moreover, I only address a poster directly if I believe him to be a rational actor. Sten has long since proven that that he is not; in which case, I address my comments and rebuttals not to him at all, but to any reader here who may find them of interest.
More:
What I really love is the person who says I don’t get it. I have concluded that I am not really talking to any loyal Americans here, so I’ll try a different argument that should appeal to people who are craven to Israel rather than their own nation…
………………………………….
Given Sten’s constant slamming of Israel, compared to his passing and pro-forma criticism of anti-American hell-holes, my guess is that his “loyal American” stance here is more a ruse than anything else—calculated to make points here but of no real substance.
More:
Tell me how stupid the below scenario is:
Let’s say I have a big, burly bodyguard called Big Bob. Bob is always taking care of me and buying me stuff, like an Iron Dome missile defense system and as many peanut M&Ms as I want. He takes my side at UN Elementary School regardless of whether I’m right or wrong, and keeps all the other kids off my back.
………………………………….
Note what Sten is doing here—positing America’s principled alliance with Israel (though much weakened under the current administration) as the position of a stupid and thuggish boy who defends a rude nerd for no reason whatsoever.
How sickening—this completely ignores our common interests and the nature of those bullies on the playground—who don’t merely want to beat the kid up and take his lunch money—bad enough—but to murder him and leave his body out by the monkey bars.
More:
The next time Big Bob says or does anything to defend me, the other kids just laugh in his face, because I already established his stupidity and weakness, right?
………………………………….
The reason America—and the West—is taken less seriously in the world today is because of our foolish appeasement of evil—*not* our defense of our allies. It is likely that Sten understands this.
More:
I won and got back at Big Bob for disagreeing with me, but I lost my bodyguard and financier. Now where are my peanut M&Ms?
The sad, or not-so-sad, fact about Israel and its little fan club on this board is that they are incapable of realizing that in their lust to shame, degrade and insult their main ally over some point of policy, they are both destroying popular American support for Israel and also dragging down any lingering regard the world might have had for us. The world is watching Obama be slapped down like a disobedient prostitute by his pimp Netanyahu.
………………………………….
*This* is how this supposed “loyal American” sees the United States and Israel—as a prostitute and pimp. *Good God*.
More:
Since when is the United States groveling to them? We mostly ignore what they say, because we have better things to do than to listen to the ramblings of crazy people [Islamic countries—GI].
………………………………….
The United States—and the West—spend all too much time listening to “crazy people”.
Pretending to take Hamas as a credible “partner for peace”, pretending that Pakistan is an ally against terrorism, pretending that Karzai or al-Maliki have any real interest in Jeffersonian democracy—on and on.
And worse, we back up that dealing with crazy people—pious Muslims who hate us on “principle”—with billions in foreign aid.
Any money sent to Israel—a staunch ally—can be defended. Can any sane person—if they are being honest—defend the sending of American tax-payer money to Pakistan, which was hiding Osama bin Laden? To Iraq, which is doing nothing to protect Christians and is letting the sanguinary “Caliphate” encroach virtually unopposed? To Afghanistan, where the president has threatened to *join the Taliban* and which has just recently *reinstituted the stoning of women*?
I think not.
More:
It is clear that you, and Israel, have no concept of diplomacy or political cunning. It will be Israel’s downfall, but that is not my problem.
………………………………….
Even if this were true vis-a-vis Israel’s diplomacy and “political cunning”, what would it say about *our* “political cunning” if we responded to a (supposedly) rash word from a key ally by *throwing them to an enemy that wants to see us fall to Islam as much as they do Israel*?
That would be like America abandoning Britain to the Fascists during WWII the first time they heard someone in a pub grumbling about Americans being “over paid, over sexed, and over here”.
The more I hear from Sten, the more likely it seems that he is more intent on urging us to abandon our ally Israel (the “Little Satan”)—and to gleefully anticipate the resulting emboldening of Jihadists to the destruction of ourselves (the “Great Satan”). *Ugh*.
Ashley says
LOL!
I’m an atheist that now believes in God.
This morning I said, “good lord, let graven take on Sten’s “Big Bob the bodyguard” rant.
And it was delivered!!!!!!!
xoxo
Reality Check says
So Sten,
By your logic, Israel should become the moral hostage of the USA because the USA happens to be Israel’s only ally. It obviously doesn’t matter to you that sometimes “Bob” (the USA) wants you to drop your guard and please your bullies, so he can look like a great guy to everyone in the schoolyard. It doesn’t matter that your bullies will beat you to an inch of your life if they feel you hesitate – hell, let’s please Bob because he’s all I’ve got even if his strange politicking will land me in hospital.
I doubt you have ever been in a situation where you depended on one person only against the rest of the world, so your post is nothing but the cynicism of a know-it-all who would never accept his own advice in the same situation. In case you can’t figure this logically, Netanyahu’s duty is to Israel first and everything else last. I wish more country leaders thought that way and we’d never be in today’s predicament with all these Muslim colonists in Europe and America.
In the meantime, if you really are so sensitive as to take offence at any opposition to your President and Secretary of State, I suggest that you deal with your hypersensitivity in another way, which doesn’t involve the demeaning of a heroic little nation which has only itself and its moral and spiritual resources against millions of unprincipled enemies driven by a savage religion which is the epitome of darkness and wants to turn the lights on the whole world.
But I must say I really liked the last sentence in your post – the likening of Obama with a disobedient prostitute slapped by her pimp. In reality Obama IS a prostitute who sold any moral principles he had to the interests of Islam, which seeks our destruction. I don’t mind anybody slapping him in public like the whore he is and Netanyahu is too good to waste his hand across his face – he should have been slapped by someone worse, like his real pimps who reside in Saudi Arabia and the rest of Is lamia.
Sten says
Graven image says:
“*This* is how this supposed “loyal American” sees the United States and Israel—as a prostitute and pimp. *Good God*.”
The word “like” in a sentence indicates an analogy. I am trying to paint a little picture of how the world views the relationship between the US and Israel, by showing how degrading it looks to have Israel’s main ally and fund source slapped down in the public arena by the nation it has been supporting. You know that I am against my nation being treated this way by Israel, because that IS MY WHOLE POINT. Hence, I am a loyal American, and people who shill for Israel over their own country are not. What is so hard about this?
The problem with many comments on this board is that they do not show a basic ability to read and understand text. Maybe people are so eager to attack that they just pounce on statements without thinking. Maybe some of you are actually Israelis and do not speak English as your mother tongue. Fine, but you need to take some extra time when you are reading.
I also cannot get anyone here to understand the Office of the President is not the same thing as the individual. I don’t like Obama, I didn’t vote for him, I disagree with most of his policies. However, he is the representative of our country abroad. Incivility towards Obama by the head of a foreign state is not a personal insult to Obama, it is an insult to the Office of the President and to the American people. When it comes from our sworn enemies, it looks stupid, but what else do you expect from your enemy? When it comes from our ally to whom we have given billions in aid, it is unforgivable. I cannot believe that supposedly intelligent adults do not comprehend this distinction. Once again, I can only suspect that there are some deep-seated cultural differences between us that cause you to think that it is in Israel’s best interest to kick Obama in the teeth in front of the world. How many average Americans are simmering with fury like me?
Graven image says: “Even if this were true vis-a-vis Israel’s diplomacy and “political cunning”, what would it say about *our* “political cunning” if we responded to a (supposedly) rash word from a key ally by *throwing them to an enemy that wants to see us fall to Islam as much as they do Israel*?”
Why is Israel a key ally? What of significance are they doing for us politically, strategically, economically or in any other way? We give them money and there is no economic benefit whatsoever for us. Any trade deals are also acts of charity rather than true benefits to our economy. The Israelis are notoriously difficult to deal with in trade situations.
They are not holding back the tide of Islam: activity by fanatical Muslims has mushroomed exponentially and Israel hasn’t done a thing to stop it, besides fight their local Muslims who should be no threat to the US unless we let them immigrate here. They promoted Hamas as an alternative to the secular PLO.
Is there some strategic advantage to Israel? What is it? Are they guarding Middle Eastern oil or something I don’t know about?
Politically, Israel is one of the most disliked nations on earth. They are known as one of the least diplomatically skilled countries in the first world as evidenced by Netanyahu’s humiliation of his key ally recently in the press.
Now, this is a real question: You tell me why we have Israel as our ally if they are not the least bit useful to us, because I am sick of giving away freebies. They have gotten hundreds of BILLIONS of US dollars, and I want some real benefit for that, so start telling me what prizes I’m winning.
And please don’t bring up the fact that Afghanistan or other great game countries are getting our money. They are getting it because of the 200 billion landlocked barrels of oil off the Caspian Sea that the Russians or Chinese will take if we do not find a way to get it out. It is not because we love them. Name me a country we give aid to, and I will tell you what we want to get out of it. The only exception that that rule is Israel.
Angemon says
Adolf posted:
“I am a loyal American, and people who shill for Israel over their own country are not”
Let’s take a look at something Goering said during the Nuremberg trials:
“people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”
Kinda puts things into perspective, doesn’t it?
“I also cannot get anyone here to understand the Office of the President is not the same thing as the individual. I don’t like Obama, I didn’t vote for him, I disagree with most of his policies. However, he is the representative of our country abroad. Incivility towards Obama by the head of a foreign state is not a personal insult to Obama, it is an insult to the Office of the President and to the American people.”
The idiocy here is off the charts: he doesn’t like Obama or his policies but he won’t suffer Israel criticizing Obama or his policies (who are damaging to Israel), even though he disagrees with them. Kinda like shia and sunni muslims only stop killing each other to kill those who criticize them. Anyway, let’s try Adolf’s comment in the context of 1930’s Germany:
“I am a loyal German, and people who shill for a foreign nation over their own country are not.
[…]
I also cannot get anyone here to understand the chancellor of Germany is not the same thing as the individual. I don’t like Hitler, I didn’t vote for him, I disagree with most of his policies. However, he is the representative of our country abroad. Incivility towards Hitler by the head of a foreign state is not a personal insult to Hitler, it is an insult to the chancellor of Germany and to the German people.”
Your shtick is up dumbass. Take your anti-semitism and choke on it.
gravenimage says
And the vicious drivel from Sten never ends:
Graven image says:
“*This* is how this supposed “loyal American” sees the United States and Israel—as a prostitute and pimp. *Good God*.”
The word “like” in a sentence indicates an analogy.
………………………………..
*Of course* this is an analogy—just as positing the US as a moronic “Big Bob” was. But for someone to use such an analogy, this shows that this is—symbolically—how they see the situation. I repeat, *Ugh*.
More:
Hence, I am a loyal American, and people who shill for Israel over their own country are not. What is so hard about this?
The problem with many comments on this board is that they do not show a basic ability to read and understand text. Maybe people are so eager to attack that they just pounce on statements without thinking. Maybe some of you are actually Israelis and do not speak English as your mother tongue. Fine, but you need to take some extra time when you are reading…
……………………………….
This is a very common tactic among trolls—the idea that if you disagree with them, that this shows that you are too obtuse to understand their arguments.
And the charge that those disagreeing with him here are incapable of understanding English is grimly hilarious—no one who replied to his comments has difficulty with English, and many of the posters, in fact, are particularly erudite.
More:
When it comes from our sworn enemies, it looks stupid, but what else do you expect from your enemy? When it comes from our ally to whom we have given billions in aid, it is unforgivable. I cannot believe that supposedly intelligent adults do not comprehend this distinction…
……………………………….
By this argument, we should fund those who want to see us destroyed, but cut off ties with any ally who dares to offer any disagreement. Talk about the bigotry of soft expectations!
More:
How many average Americans are simmering with fury like me?
……………………………….
Oh, I’m sure Sten has plenty of company—I’m not sure I’d refer to them as “average Americans”, though…
More:
Graven image says: “Even if this were true vis-a-vis Israel’s diplomacy and “political cunning”, what would it say about *our* “political cunning” if we responded to a (supposedly) rash word from a key ally by *throwing them to an enemy that wants to see us fall to Islam as much as they do Israel*?”
Why is Israel a key ally? What of significance are they doing for us politically, strategically, economically or in any other way? We give them money and there is no economic benefit whatsoever for us. Any trade deals are also acts of charity rather than true benefits to our economy…
……………………………….
What rot. Israel shares security information with us about the Jihad threat. And the idea that trade deals with Israel are an “act of charity” is ludicrous. You’d think we were just importing dates or kosher products—instead of high tech.
More:
The Israelis are notoriously difficult to deal with in trade situations.
……………………………….
Like the Japanese? The situation is quite similar—and similarly mutually beneficial to both parties.
Not like our dealings with Muslim nations, where they spend our foreign aid to buy weaponry to attack our allies with.
More:
They are not holding back the tide of Islam: activity by fanatical Muslims has mushroomed exponentially and Israel hasn’t done a thing to stop it, besides fight their local Muslims who should be no threat to the US unless we let them immigrate here. They promoted Hamas as an alternative to the secular PLO.
……………………………….
The idea that Israel promoted Hamas is utter rot. They have long noted that Hamas is so determined to destroy them that it is in their very charter.
And the idea that the PLO—Fatah—is “secular” is ludicrous. They also vow to destroy Israel—and on just the same Islamic grounds as Hamas.
And we find the usual—that the Jihad against Israel presents no threat to the rest of the West, and so we should abandon Israel to destruction.
But this is crap—the ideology that wants to see the destruction of Israel is *exactly* the one that threatens us.
This is what “First the Saturday People, then the Sunday People” means.
And the idea that Israel is of no use unless they—a tiny nation of seven million, smaller than the population of NYC—defeat Jihad in the entire Middle East, is simply absurd.
More:
Is there some strategic advantage to Israel? What is it? Are they guarding Middle Eastern oil or something I don’t know about?
……………………………….
Witless reductionism. They are holding the line in that part of the world. After them, the region is dominated by the conflagration of Syria and the sanguinary nascent “Caliphate”.
More:
Politically, Israel is one of the most disliked nations on earth…
……………………………….
A rational person might ask why this is so, when she is a democratic state, and there are sanguinary horrors like Saudi Arabia, North Korea, and Sudan—but Sten will never ask these questions.
Actually, the United States is pretty widely hated, as well—known popularly as the “Great Satan” throughout much of Dar-al-Islam.
I suppose that’s because we’re one of the “least diplomatically skilled countries in the first world”, as well…sarc/off
More:
Now, this is a real question: You tell me why we have Israel as our ally if they are not the least bit useful to us, because I am sick of giving away freebies. They have gotten hundreds of BILLIONS of US dollars, and I want some real benefit for that, so start telling me what prizes I’m winning.
………………………………..
Supporting a democracy against barbarism? Sharing information and technology with an advanced nation? Helping to safeguard innocent people against Fascists?
None of these are prizes Sten would consider worth “winning”, of course…
More:
And please don’t bring up the fact that Afghanistan or other great game countries are getting our money. They are getting it because of the 200 billion landlocked barrels of oil off the Caspian Sea that the Russians or Chinese will take if we do not find a way to get it out. It is not because we love them.
………………………………..
What utter crap. We have wasted immense amounts of blood and treasure on Afghanistan.
We went in an attempt to oppose Jihad, and stayed in a rather wrong-headed attempt to “nation build”.
Haters of the West often ludicrously posit the idea that our only purpose in going into Afghanistan was to secure some sort of phantom oil pipeline—I’ve also heard that it was really all about mineral rights.
Contemporary use of the term the “great game” tends to be a dead giveaway, and is usually used to indicate that the free West is just as venal as every other part of the world.
And if this *was* the case, then we are damn bad at this—since we have spent billions, and have not gotten a drop of oil or any minerals out of Afghanistan. Re the latter, mining in most of these mineral-rich areas is simply too dangerous, as they are riddled with violent Jihadists.
More:
Name me a country we give aid to, and I will tell you what we want to get out of it. The only exception that that rule is Israel.
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What crap.
Why don’t I name just a single polity, but one that is very salient here?
We give vast amounts of money to the “Palestinians”, mostly in the hope that they will create a stable state and stop attacking Israel.
Let’s see—has this ever worked? Or are we throwing our money down a never ending pit, funding the very people who want to see us destroyed just as they do Israel herself?
gravenimage says
thank you, Ashley.
xoxo back at you!
Sten says
Graven Image, let’s look at your evidence that Israel is a useful ally for the United States:
1. “Israel shares security information with us about the Jihad threat. And the idea that trade deals with Israel are an “act of charity” is ludicrous. You’d think we were just importing dates or kosher products—instead of high tech.”
Ever heard of Jonathan Pollard? Israel spies on us, and has used the sweet deals we have given them to steal our technology information. Sickeningly, they have sold American technology information to some of our most dangerous adversaries.
One of the most notorious cases is the Lavi fighter program, in which the US provided American-developed technology to Israel which Israel promptly sold for a profit to Communist China, enabling the Chinese to create aircraft far beyond their native abilities. The technology Israel has stolen and/or exposed to our enemies has compromised American safety and security and robbed us of untold amounts of taxpayer money spent on development.
In addition, we need to stop importing technology from other nations, so we can develop and manufacture it ourselves. Americans need jobs in the technology and manufacturing sectors and we need to increase education for our own citizens not give these opportunities to the Israelis.
So they are not our economic ally. As far as security information: Don’t most nations share security information with each other, especially with regard to potential terrorism? Does Israel share more security information with us than, say, Russia, who is not considered our ally?
Graven image says: “The idea that Israel promoted Hamas is utter rot. ”
Israel registered the Hamas precursor group as a charity.
“When I look back at the chain of events I think we made a mistake,” says David Hacham, who worked in Gaza in the late 1980s and early ’90s as an Arab-affairs expert in the Israeli military. “But at the time nobody thought about the possible results.”
2. “And we find the usual—that the Jihad against Israel presents no threat to the rest of the West, and so we should abandon Israel to destruction.
But this is crap—the ideology that wants to see the destruction of Israel is *exactly* the one that threatens us.”
Fighting a common enemy does not make us allies. China is fighting Islamic jihadis. Are they our ally? We are not obliged to be “allies” with every nation that has a jihadi problem, which will soon be all of them.
3. “And the idea that Israel is of no use unless they—a tiny nation of seven million, smaller than the population of NYC—defeat Jihad in the entire Middle East, is simply absurd.”
They can’t defeat Jihad a mile away from their capital. They can’t defeat Jihad IN their capital. An ally is someone of use to us, not someone we feel sorry for. Does America need a tiny ally that cannot defeat jihad?
4. “Witless reductionism. They are holding the line in that part of the world. After them, the region is dominated by the conflagration of Syria and the sanguinary nascent “Caliphate”. ”
Israel has done exactly zero to improve conditions in Syria or take down the Caliphate. The plucky Kurds have done more to defend against ISIS than armed-to-the-teeth Israel. The small, impoverished state of Jordan has taken in over 600,000 Syrian refugees. How many Iraqi or Syrian refugees has Israel taken in? Why don’t we give Jordan or Kurdistan a few billion for actually doing something to help?
5. “Supporting a democracy against barbarism? Sharing information and technology with an advanced nation? Helping to safeguard innocent people against Fascists? ”
Here you sum up your points. But as far as I can tell, the only people Israel supports or safeguards are their own, and I fail to see how that benefits the United States in any tangible way, or goes beyond the basic definition of a nation. Please name the other innocent people that they are helping and explain how that helps the United States.
At any rate, this is not a very convincing argument for Israel to be our ally, because I still have very little evidence that they are doing anything for us.
voegelinian says
“We have been living with the fallout of Israel’s inability to come to terms with the Palestinians for 40 years…”
There’s the unsound foundation for the rest of the crap that is sten’s comment and no doubt his person, life and miserable legacy.
Walter Sieruk says
The disingenuous and lying leaders of Hamas can’t be trusted if they may promise in or about any “truce.” This they have proven by their past actions. The Leaders of the State of Israel would have to be fools to take the word of or trust “peaceful intentions” that the leaders of Hamas may claim they have. Men of the wicked mindset of Hamas go as far back as to ancient times. An example of this is found in the Bible in Psalm 55:20,21. Which reads “Such men do violence to those at peace with them and break their promised word: their speech is smoother then butter but their thoughts are of war.” [NEB]
John Alexander says
There is a sort of balance on CNN and the BBC. Reports are sent from both sides of the divide.
But on one side we see images of a vast array of sophisticated weaponry and hear the reasoned (clinical) tones) of Israeli officialdom.
On the other we are assaulted with upset, maimed or dead moppets.
There is the show of balance but the effect on the uninformed viewer is obvious:repugnance at Israeli barbarism.
So the exact opposite of the truth is conveyed.
There’s a great post on that called: Not Even Close at:
http://john-moloney.blogspot.com/2014/08/not-even-close.html
richard sherman says
Obama and Kerry care as much about the Jews as the sociopath Muhammad did when he personally decapitated 900 unarmed Jews of the Bani Quarayza tribe.
Jay Boo says
someone is posting as richatd sherman
with the letter ‘t’ in place of ‘r’ on this thread
Richard Sherman says
Just a typo…
Richard Sherman says
Just a typo…
Richard Sherman says
Just a typo…
Beagle says
I can’t wait for the White House lecture Israel and Netanyahu on how this is no way to treat a friend. As if forcing a ‘ceasefire’ leading to an assault and kidnapping is a good way to treat a friend.
We’ve reached a bizarre point in time where the only thing which would surprise me would be for any government official to tell the truth about something or do the right thing. To wit, anyone buying the convenient pre-election “4% growth” in GDP? (To be quietly revised down to .4 or something. Oops, the agency needs more funding for decimal places.)
islamforbids.com says
Somebody slap Obama .
Champ ✿ says
***SMACK!!!!*** …dang I broke a nail but it was for a worthy cause :->
Mirren10 says
🙂
Champ says
Netanyahu to U.S.: Don’t “ever second guess me again” and force a truce with “Palestinians”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bravo, Netanyahu!! …a fitting response in light of obama’s dangerous advice for a “ceasefire” with this evil and lying terrorist organization: Hamas
Netanyahu is such a *brave* man and I support him and Israel 1000%!
Silvia says
I doubt he said it that way (rolling eyes). The media likes dramaz and creating (aka inventing) stuff. This isn’t his style at all and never was. He must have said something like “I know who the Hamas is. I’ve been dealing with them for years. There’s no reason to doubt my attitude towards them” blah blah.
Mirren10 says
”I doubt he said it that way (rolling eyes).”
I expect you’re right, Silvia, but all the same, I love it !
Bernie says
Obama is a “Manchurian” Candidate. A Muslim in disguise. He can’t prove his American Heritage.
Jay Boo says
Netanyahu is well aware of President Barack Obama’s back-stabbing ‘support’
Unreliable ‘friends’ Obama and Kerry will gladly second guess every one of Netanyahu’s decisions if given the chance.
Because of this and the latest cease fire an Israeli soldier was kidnapped
We should be asking “Is peace even possible?”
Does the Qur’an permit Palestinian Muslims the option to accept Jews (or people of any other religion) as equal human beings or is the Qur’an a hate speech manual that defies common human decency to others and at times even to fellow Muslims?
Ashley says
“Is the Qur’an a hate speech manual that defies common human decency to others and at times even to fellow Muslims?”
___________________________
Yes, Jay Boo, it is. As someone here on JW noted, if the violent passages from the Qur’an were edited out, the tome would be reduced to a three page pamphlet.
As such, I really don’t see how peace is possible.
duh_swami says
I always support the civilized man and not the savage. Therefore, I support Israel and not the savage. If you support the savage, you are a savage.
gravenimage says
Pithy and succinct, Swami!
Ashley says
Sorry…this is WAY OT:
http://www.heraldstandard.com/united_states_ap/muslim-movement-accepts-once-taboo-causes/article_88210cdf-281a-5ed0-9ef3-616526ea242f.html
Robert (and others) have written extensively on the myth of the “moderate” Muslim. So what the hell do you call this shit? Perhaps I’m being a tad paranoid, but it feels like a “trap” intended to ensnare American youth into a “cool” form of Islam only to groom these lost souls for the real McCoy.
Makes me uneasy…
Ashley says
Exact same article, but this one has some photos:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/08/02/progressive-u-s-muslim-movement-embraces-gay-and-interfaith-marriages-female-imams-and-mixed-prayers/
Jay Boo says
It could be both a trap when used by clever folks at CAIR to repackage Islam and also an encouraging sign that Muslims are beginning to realize that Islam is fraying at the edges and rotting from within by its no longer defensible self-righteous butcheries in the name of Allah.
voegelinian says
“It could be both a trap when used by clever folks at CAIR to repackage Islam and also an encouraging sign that Muslims are beginning to realize…”
Apparently from Jay Boo’s speculative anxiety, it’s more like evidence that CAIR (& its ilk) is cleverer than the likes of a Jay Boo.
Ashley says
Voegelinian…why did you deliberately dismiss “…that Islam is fraying at the edges and rotting from within by its no longer defensible self-righteous butcheries in the name of Allah” from Jay Boo’s comment?
You butchered the content of Jay Boo’s message. You attempted to minimize it by cutting out the “meat” of Jay Boo’s message.
Self-editing another’s comments to suit your agenda is pretty shitty in my opinion.
PS: I happen to believe that the new-fangled “groovy” Islam is a trap. My point is that you don’t have the right to play with other poster’s comments and take them out of context.
Ashley says
Hey Philip! Hope you are well, friend!
I think voegelinian is on the right page, but wrong paragraph. I don’t understand why there is such divisiveness when we are all in this together. We all agree the issue is Islam… Why V’s need to create friction among fellow members here? I don’t question voegelinian’s commitment to the anti-jihad, but I do question voegelinian’s aggressive, hostile, and taunting demeanor.
Frankly, I find it juvenile.
Hope you are having a good summer, Philip!
gravenimage says
Yeah, Ashley—I wouldn’t be surprised if this is more aimed at Infidels to convince them that Islam is “moderate” and “not monolithic” than it is at their own oppressive coreligonists.
After all, it is easier to chide Infidels for their “Islamophobia” than it is to face orthodox Muslims who would want to throw gay people off tall buildings and stone “uppity” women to death.
Joe says
Israel needs to finish it’s job. Obama and Kerry is wasting BiBi’s valuable time.
Vapourking says
IMPORTANT ANOUNCEMENT………………….
As of January 1st 2015. All Western Countries will simultaneously ban Islam, all Islamic places of worship will be demolished, wearing of Islamic clothing will be outlawed, owning or possessing Islamic scripture will be illegal under the proposal. Muslims wishing to continue practising will be given assistance relocating to more suited environment, under the new legislation assistance will be provided to individuals coping with the psychological damage of Islam. Muslims wishing to remain in the West and practise Islam in their own homes will no longer receive welfare, and be required to pay an additional asslifter tax. More on this announcement is expected in the coming days and weeks of this historic event.
Appalled By The World says
Nice going Netanyahu! Tell those idiots off and finish the job!
I wish this man was running the US!
Champ says
I wish this man was running the US!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indeed!!! He would definitely get my vote!
Salah says
God bless Israel.
Luciano says
President Obama is pro muslim and pro Palestine.
Sec. Kerry is a clown.
Prime Minister Netanyahu is a hero!
k bart says
one of the best teachers of the quaran and islam is Usama Dakdok. Google ‘The straightway.org’
Uncle Vladdi says
According to all official islamic sources, MUSLIMS ARE SUPPOSED TO BREAK ALL TRUCES (hudnas) AS SOON AS THEY CAN GAIN THE UPPER HAND BY DOING SO!