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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Pope Francis OKs force to stop huge outbreak of misunderstanding of Islam

Aug 18, 2014 6:55 pm By Robert Spencer

Pope FrancisLast November, Pope Francis wrote that “authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.” Unfortunately for him and for the world at large, so many Muslims have misunderstood their own religion that now he is emphasizing that it is “licit to stop the unjust aggressor.” Pope Francis is faced with the strange prospect of a nation-sized entity – the self-styled new caliphate – with supporters around the world who have misunderstood their own religion as he has characterized it. One wonders if the Pope has pondered this anomaly, and wondered how it could have come about, and what can be done about it. Should he dispatch a team of Jesuits to the lands controlled by the Islamic State to teach them that authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence?

Meanwhile, Islamic jihadists are greeting these careful and temperate words from the Pope by claiming hysterically that he has called a new Crusade — as if he was calling for military force to go into the Islamic State and convert the people there to Christianity. This hysteria is, of course, a recruitment tool.

“Pope OKs protecting Iraq minorities, wants UN OK,” by Nicole Winfield, Associated Press, August 18, 2014:

ABOARD THE PAPAL PLANE (AP) — Pope Francis on Monday said efforts to stop Islamic militants from attacking religious minorities in Iraq are legitimate but said the international community — and not just one country — should decide how to intervene.

Francis was asked if he approved of the unilateral U.S. airstrikes on militants of the Islamic State group, who have captured swaths of northern and western Iraq and northeastern Syria and have forced minority Christians and others to either convert to Islam or flee their homes.

“In these cases, where there is an unjust aggression, I can only say that it is licit to stop the unjust aggressor,” Francis said. “I underscore the verb ‘stop.’ I’m not saying ‘bomb’ or ‘make war,’ just ‘stop.’ And the means that can be used to stop them must be evaluated.”

Francis also said he and his advisers were considering whether he might go to northern Iraq himself to show solidarity with persecuted Christians. But he said he was holding off for now on a decision.

The pope’s comments were significant because the Vatican has vehemently opposed any military intervention in recent years. Pope Paul VI famously uttered the words “War never again, never again war” at the United Nations in 1965 as the Vietnam War raged, a refrain that has been repeated by every pope since. St. John Paul II actively tried to head off the Iraq war on the grounds that a “preventive” war couldn’t be justified. He repeatedly called for negotiations to resolve the crisis over Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait a decade prior.

Francis himself staged a global prayer and fast for peace when the U.S. was threatening airstrikes on Syria last year.

But in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks — in the Vatican’s mind an “unjust aggression” — John Paul defended the “legitimate fight against terrorism,” and the right of nations to defend themselves against terrorist attacks. He did though call for restraint and the Vatican subsequently focused its position on emphasizing the need to eradicate the root causes of terrorism: poverty and oppression.

Recently, the Vatican has been increasingly showing support for military intervention in Iraq, given that Christians are being directly targeted because of their faith and that Christian communities, which have existed for 2,000 years, have been emptied as a result of the extremists’ onslaught.

The U.S. began launching airstrikes against IS fighters on Aug. 8, allowing Kurdish forces to fend off an advance on their regional capital of Irbil and to help tens of thousands of religious minorities escape.

When the Vatican’s ambassador to Iraq, Monsignor Giorgio Lingua, was asked about the U.S. airstrikes, he told Vatican Radio that it was unfortunate that the situation had gotten to this point “but it’s good when you’re able to at the very least remove weapons from these people who have no scruples.”

The Vatican’s ambassador to the United Nations in Geneva, Archbishop Silvano Tomasi, went further, saying “Maybe military action is necessary at this moment.”

Church teaching allows for “just wars,” when military force can be morally justified under certain circumstances. The four main criteria, all of which must be met, include that the damage inflicted by the aggressor must be “lasting, grave and certain,” that all other means haven’t worked, that there must be real prospects for success and that the intervention must not produce results that are worse than the original evil. Finally, church teaching holds that the responsibility for determining if the four conditions have been met rests with the judgment of “those who have responsibility for the common good.”

Francis was thus essentially applying church teaching on the “just war” doctrine to the Iraq situation.

But, he said, in history, such “excuses” to stop an unjust aggression have been used by world powers to justify a “war of conquest” in which an entire people have been taken over.

“One nation alone cannot judge how you stop this, how you stop an unjust aggressor,” he said, apparently referring to the United States. “After World War II, the idea of the United Nations came about: It’s there that you must discuss ‘Is there an unjust aggression? It seems so. How should we stop it?’ Just this. Nothing more.”

Francis sent a personal envoy, Cardinal Fernando Filoni, to northern Iraq last week with an undisclosed amount of money to help people in flight and show the pope’s solidarity with those forced to flee their homes….

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Filed Under: Catholic Church, Islamic State (aka ISIS, ISIL, Daesh) Tagged With: featured


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Comments

  1. voegelinian says

    Aug 18, 2014 at 6:59 pm

    I’m really fed up with Frank. I don’t really care what he pontificates about, as he has shown himself to be even softer on Muslims than the JW Softies.

    • John Jackson says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 2:50 am

      Its interesting to look back at a quote attributed to Pope Urban 2 when he was having Islamic problems. Maybe Pope Francis could take a leaf out of his book:-

      “I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ’s heralds to publish this everywhere and to pers­e all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it is meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it.”

      • TH says

        Aug 19, 2014 at 1:00 pm

        The Cruzades began with good and noble intentions, but due to many bad guy who took advantage of them there were also atrocities, especially bad was the taking and sacking of Constantiniple in 1204. These days the Church is very wary of declaring a war just according to the principles mentioned in the article. Experience has shown that a war may begin being just, but may end up involving many atrocities. The British and the French entered Wold War II to protect Poland from Hitler and Stalin. The Allies ended up carpet fire boming German cities such as Hamburg, Dresden and also Tokyo, not to mention the two atom bombs, all of which were patently immoral and could in no way be justified according to the criteriia for a just war worked out by Sts. Augutine and St. Thomas Aquinas, and which are traditional Catholic moral teaching. The irony of the end of World War II was that the West gave Poland to Stalin, despite the fact that the Soviets who were at the gates of Warsaw did nothing to prevent the Germans from destroying it and killing hundreds of thousands.

        • Free Speech says

          Aug 19, 2014 at 2:24 pm

          How is all of that equivocation going to help you when the muzzle of the AK is at your head?

    • Bill says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 11:15 am

      I agree with your assessment. The West and the Western Church needs to be critical, condemning and uncompromising toward Islam. While it is understandable that Middle Eastern Christians under the dark cloud of Islamic domination must speak and tread softly for the sake of their own survival, the West must do and say the exact opposite in order for our survival. We must openly and loudly criticize Islam for being authoritarian, Nazi-like, misogynistic, violent, intolerant, anti-democratic, subversive to classic liberal government and culture, deceptive, cleptocratic, abusive and the world’s most retrograde social, political, economic and cultural force. ALL immigration of Muslims into the U.S. must stop. Anything less will mean our destruction. As dangerous and evil as groups like ISIS or al Qaeda are, the insidious infiltration and subversion of government and society by “normal” and “moderate” Muslims is much more dangerous.

      • Steven Dallman says

        Aug 19, 2014 at 4:02 pm

        I agree whole heartedly. The goal of Islam is subjugation of the entire world. Convert to Islam or die. Unbelievers or infidels are not considered human and their painful deaths are pleasing to Allah and commanded by him. The Koran is clear. There is no compromise. There is no separation of religion and state. Islam is THE religion and Sharia under a caliphate is the law and state. Accept or die.

    • Ray Lanfear says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 1:05 pm

      Even the Vatican changes, better late then never. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/08/18/pope-oks-protecting-iraq-minorities-wants-un-ok/14241193/

  2. shrugger says

    Aug 18, 2014 at 7:08 pm

    Too much of a Puss to call for the 10th Crusade.

    • Beagle says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 12:09 am

      I’d call it proactive interfaith outreach. Maybe if we sell it to him the right way.

    • Shane says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 10:10 am

      He is either lying about Islam being a peaceful religion or he is just ignorant about Islam. Perhaps Robert Spencer could send the Pope several of this books about Muhammad and Islam. You can’t defeat an enemy when you refuse to identify it. Our enemy is Islamic jihad and those ISIS savages must be destroyed. If these ISIS terrorists return home, hundreds of innocents in Europe and North America will be killed.

    • Timonarr Baldangadong says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 11:18 am

      We will have the crusades forced upon us as it has always been forced by Islam. Turkey, before it became The Ottoman Empire was the seat of the Eastern Catholic Church. Chechnya, Bosnia etc. was once a Christian area as was Lebanon, Egypt and much of the mid east. Vienna was called the golden Apple in the 16th century by Muslims as they laid siege. Today it is under siege from within it’s walls. Muslims are demanding Sharia in London, Detroit , Paris and Antwerp. While ISIS is saying they will soon be raising their flag in the White-house. Make no mistake………Crusades are coming soon and you will have no options but to fight or submit.

  3. Don McKellar says

    Aug 18, 2014 at 7:14 pm

    As an atheist, I still had respect and a positive view of this pope. Now I see that he’s not even educating himself on an issue so important these days before he comments and acts. Clearly he hasn’t read the Koran and is only relying on his own wishful thinking and likely the word of his advisors — who also don’t have any idea what they’re talking about. Either the pope is a clueless fool with regards to Islam, or he is deliberately lying on this issue.

    • wildjew says

      Aug 18, 2014 at 8:58 pm

      Positive? Why? Did you see the Islamic supremacists he ingratiated himself with in Israel? It’s OK for Christian minorities to defend themselves or the Christian west to kill these jihadists but the Jews have no right to defend themselves? You respect this?

      • Oliver says

        Aug 18, 2014 at 10:46 pm

        Wildjew,

        YOU ARE 10,000% CORRECT.

        Hamas launching missles at a city Sdeot (did I spell it corretly) for several years; murdering three teen age stuedents is OK.

        But, to stop this and find the kilelrs?

        No, according to this person.

        Incidentlally, I recall reading that he was one of the liberation theolgy /leftist socialist priests in S. A. Does anyone know if this is/was correct?

        • Oliver says

          Aug 18, 2014 at 10:49 pm

          Word in line 5–KILLERS; sorry for the typo.

        • PJG says

          Aug 19, 2014 at 12:12 am

          This might be what you are looking for, Oliver:

          https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2013/11/24340/

        • Oliver says

          Aug 19, 2014 at 4:24 pm

          PJG
          thanks for the link.

          interesting

      • bill says

        Aug 19, 2014 at 11:21 am

        WJ: You are correct. I say that the Pope and the RCC has erred greatly by not being Zionist and by embracing Replacement Theology.

        • Steven Dallman says

          Aug 19, 2014 at 4:12 pm

          Bill, You are right. In the Bible, Israel is the “wife of Jehovah.” The Church is the “Bride of Christ.” For “replacement theology” to be true, God, the Father had to get a divorce. Not possible. This struggle with Islam will continue until Christ’s return. No one on Earth has the solution. Much of this current move from which ISIS emerged could have been prevented, save for the inaction of our sad sack President. He will say much, as does the Pope, but Obama will do little to nothing.

    • Lynne Newington says

      Aug 18, 2014 at 9:48 pm

      I’m afraid this pope holds no curry for me until he goes back and repairs the damage the church did during his timeline in Argentina against their own, including many clergy.
      The Evangelicals whom he was well aquainted with welcomed his elevation [impressed by his media “stunts “soon after], being the first Latin American to sit in the chair of Peter.
      Now getting back on track, during Benedicts reign, according to the Vatican’s Secretary of State, in relation to the Muslims, “the church was facing one of the most serious and biggest assaults on Christianity that history remembers”, Cath News Italy Sept. 18 2000.
      The jury is still out for me on him.

      • Oliver says

        Aug 18, 2014 at 10:52 pm

        Benedicct citicized Islam for their uncivilized behavior, and was forced to backtrack and apologize.

        I AM NOT SURE, but, I think he made the mistake of making the statements in Turkey, or when he was plannign to go to Turkey. But, I am not sure.

        I do recall that the lefties and lame stream media were merciless on him when he made the statements.

        • voegelinian says

          Aug 19, 2014 at 4:04 pm

          Pope Benedict made the remarks in Regensburg, in Bavaria, Germany, at the University of Regensburg in 2006. In the aftermath of his lecture to the University, Muslims went apeshit around the world; for example, an imam of the main mosque in Mogadishu in Friday sermons told his congregation to go out and hunt down Christians. Two Muslims a couple of days later did so, and shot an elderly nun in the back — an Italian nun who had spent decades of her life helping mostly Muslim children in Somalia. She died a few hours later, and her last words according to a colleague were “I forgive, I forgive, I forgive” — three times, for each of the three bullets that had killed her. Back then I wrote an essay, Saint Leonella
          , on my blog appealing to the Catholic Church (not that it seems to give a shit) to beatify Sister Leonella Sgorbati in candidacy for her sainthood.

        • Oliver says

          Aug 19, 2014 at 4:23 pm

          Thanks for the information oon the remarks.

      • Jay Boo says

        Aug 19, 2014 at 9:09 am

        Lynne Newington

        What doe you think about Catholicism?

    • ben traina says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 7:03 am

      This Pope is an idiot!! I will stop myself from using the excretory language I want to use. The RCC has had some winners (St. John Paul II) and some really bad losers (Alexander VI). For a Jesuit, Frankie is lost in a 21st century political and economic world. Shame on the Jesuits for besmirching their long history of intellectual vigor. Shame on the RCC for this Pope who is sooo compassionate about the savagery of mohammedism to Christians, Jews. Hindus, Buddhists and, LITERALLY, every other religion. I HAVE READ THE KORAN, COVER TO COVER, 3 TIMES!!!! I am disgusted that he hasn’t visited Egypt to offer support to a people, Copts, who have suffered for 1400 yrs under shariah.
      ben t (ex- Catholic)

      • Tradewinds says

        Aug 19, 2014 at 2:34 pm

        “This Pope is an idiot!! ”

        Agree.

  4. joeb says

    Aug 18, 2014 at 7:17 pm

    Francis ain’t no Urban II…

    • umbra says

      Aug 18, 2014 at 10:37 pm

      nope. he is a modern jesuit.

  5. Champ says

    Aug 18, 2014 at 7:19 pm

    I know, lets ask one of the most dangerous men on planet earth: the pope, what he thinks about islam & company and how we should handle _____________ (fill in the blank).

    Why he’s allowed to weigh-in on important military matters is astonishing to me. Comic relief? He’s a feckless fool, and to date, I think the most dangerous pope on record regarding islam. And if I’m wrong, then prove it. Go ahead, give it a shot.

    • George Romero says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 4:31 am

      Thanks Champ , thats what i think too.
      When will the leaders of the free thinking Western churches who stand up
      for everything else , not stand against islamic barbarity?

      • Oliver says

        Aug 19, 2014 at 4:30 pm

        Stand up for everything else?

        i guess that you mean (presb.) boyxcotting American firms that make DEFENSIVE products in Israel; gay rights and gay marriage; highwe min. wage 9 why be pikers, why not $35 per hour, rather then just 15?); illegal aliens; etc.

        The reason: with rare exceptions–opponents of thse issues DO NOT RESORT TO VIOLENCE. (Admitted, there are some wackos in all categories, but a small minority). With Muslims, they get violet.

        look at the cartoons. The books that they find “offensive”, etc.

        That is why.

        Easier to take a stand where there is little chance of being killed.

  6. gravenimage says

    Aug 18, 2014 at 7:29 pm

    Pope OKs protecting Iraq minorities…

    Meanwhile, Islamic jihadists are greeting these careful and temperate words from the Pope by claiming hysterically that he has called a new Crusade — as if he was calling for military force to go into the Islamic State and convert the people there to Christianity. This hysteria is, of course, a recruitment tool…
    …………………………….

    If Infidels do *anything* to protect themselves or to prevent the genocide of other Infidels, then they are “launching a new Crusade”.

    Muslims want Infidels to either convert at sword’s point or to lay their throats on the blade. Anything else “oppresses” Muslims…

    • raylanfear says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 1:06 pm

      Agree with your comments and add this. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/08/18/pope-oks-protecting-iraq-minorities-wants-un-ok/14241193/

  7. Wellington says

    Aug 18, 2014 at 7:34 pm

    Pope Francis I is woeful compared his predecessor, Benedict XVI.

    Note to voegelinian about this: Don’t even try to tell me of Benedict’s failings where Islam is concerned. He pushed the envelope while having enormous responsibilities for the safety of Catholic clergy, and Catholics in general, in Muslim lands, which said responsibilites you and I did not have.

    Benedict was heroic as well as informed, quite unlike his successor who ever increasingly appears as one of the most foolish pontifex maximus’s of all time.

    My admiration for Benedict is immense. Don’t cut him down, voegelinian, because he didn’t do every last thing you think he should have done. Just sayin’ here.

    • TH says

      Aug 18, 2014 at 8:03 pm

      The informal style of Francis in these interviews is not helpful. When Pope Benedict travelled he also gave interviews on the plane, but the questions had to be sent in beforehand so that he gave a well thought and pondered answer, whichh of course would obviosly be the case of a man of such great intelligence and a vast culture.
      It is not that in Rome there are not people, also Jesuits who are not perfectly aware of the nature of Islam. I have read a book by an Egyptan Jesuit who answers 100 questions about Islam and he has no illusions about the beast which Islam is. He was born and raised among them.

      I just wish that Francis would study a bit and listen to those who know what they are talking about before responding to answers from the press in an off the cuff manner.

    • Francesca G.K. says

      Aug 18, 2014 at 11:26 pm

      Wellington: I couldn’t agree more on Pope Ratzinger -an intelligent man of culture, a true scholar, with clear knowledge of history,
      all that yet Pope Francis seems to be missing. After Benedict’s learned address on reason, faith and Islam, at Regensburg University,
      the comment that great Oriana Fallaci, an atheist, shortly before her death, made after her private meeting with the newly elected Pope Benedict : we are soul-mates – that says a lot about Ratzinger. He must have felt somewhat of a prisoner of the Vatican’s schemes, as the Vatican was probably taken aback by his unconventional personality. That may explain his resignation
      and his wish to return to his previous life of study and seclusion. The altogether different, easy-going personality of Pope Francis indicates that PR matters in Vatican’s choice of a Pope.

    • Beagle says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 12:17 am

      Agree Wellington. Benedict was fighting years of institutional inertia. During his tenure the “misunderstood peaceful religion” talking points were taken quite seriously.

      There was no IS, only Muslim violence which most easily blamed on the US. Every day I read some poor blindsided leftist trying to blame the IS on neocons or GWB, as if Muslims have no goals of their own or human agency. It’s become more difficult to ignore that jihadis are an expansionist imperialist power now that they have a nation and dominate social media with their slavery and genocide. I hope it’s not too late for people to “get it” as counter-jihadists term it.

    • voegelinian says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 4:07 pm

      Just because someone is better doesn’t make him perfect. The lives of our men, women and children is more important than hagiography.

      • Lynne Newington says

        Aug 19, 2014 at 6:55 pm

        I’m sorry this isn’t directly under the relevant comment you made further up, I wanted to thank you for the expose’ on the elderly nun on the site you mentioned, your Spiritual solidarity certainly runs very deep, and expressed beautifully.

        • voegelinian says

          Aug 20, 2014 at 11:26 pm

          Thanks Lynne, I appreciate it very much.

  8. jo says

    Aug 18, 2014 at 7:36 pm

    Champ.. The Pope is not weighing in on military matters at all. If you read Thomas Aquinas you will understand the while Catholic Christendom is not anxious to go to war it does have a duty to defend the powerless and Aquinas makes the case for a ‘just war’.

    • Champ says

      Aug 18, 2014 at 8:16 pm

      The Pope is not weighing in on military matters at all.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      You’re kidding, right?

  9. Peeved says

    Aug 18, 2014 at 8:20 pm

    Obviously the poop is evil.

    • Champ says

      Aug 18, 2014 at 8:49 pm

      “poop”

      ahaha!! 😀

  10. Steven Dallman says

    Aug 18, 2014 at 8:31 pm

    The Pope is woefully misinformed. ISIS is doing EXACTLY what Mohammed did. The terror they spread is the terror of the Koran. Even a cursury reading of the Koran shows it to be a hateful, vile handbook of hate and war.

  11. Bezelel says

    Aug 18, 2014 at 9:28 pm

    Sgt. York should be required viewing for all Christians. Now would be a good time to remake it.

    • Wellington says

      Aug 18, 2014 at 9:39 pm

      Don’t need to remake it, Bezelel. Gary Cooper is just about as good as you can get. Just show the original. No remake is necessary. Besides, if Hollyweird did do a remake, it would very likely be full of PC/MC nonsense as well as at least one gratuitous sex scene——-and with no actress today nearly as beautifully and innocently sexy as Joan Leslie was in the original.

      • EYESOPEN says

        Aug 18, 2014 at 10:19 pm

        Absolutely Wellington. Gary Cooper is as good a “Sgt. York” as you will ever find. And you are right also about what would happen to the story if the current dweebs in Hollyweird ever tried a contemporary remake.

        Hope all is well with you. O O
        ^

        • Wellington says

          Aug 18, 2014 at 10:39 pm

          Best regards too, EYESOPEN, and hope you’ve had a Muslim-free day.

      • Bezelel says

        Aug 19, 2014 at 6:24 am

        The hollyweird version, I’m afraid would be inevitable. Just thinking of the special effects that weren’t possible then. It was top notch for what they had to work with.

        • voegelinian says

          Aug 19, 2014 at 4:15 pm

          The remake: George Clooney as “Sergeant Yaruq”, a Muslim-American pacifist who because of his religion of peace doesn’t want to be sent to Iraq, but one night while praying, the wind blows the pages of his Koran to a verse that shows him it is permitted to “fight for justice”. He therefore goes to Iraq reluctantly to help Muslims against the Tiny Minority of Extremists, and while there finds an even worse enemy: evil American soldiers who are attacking innocent helpless Muslims. He valiantly kills these evil Americans, and returns home to a ticker-tape parade in NYC and a special award given to him personally by President Obama, flanked by Oprah and Will Smith…

        • Bezelel says

          Aug 19, 2014 at 8:39 pm

          They ruined Robin Hood fer sher. C-Looney? My remake thoughts were born of my concern about how can you you get the attention deficit disordered, rap infected, priority deficient Generation X products of the new normal, to even watch the masterpiece without new special effects. The temptation would be too much for them to re-wright the whole story. Dialogue vacuums R us. God bless and keep Lauren Bacall.

      • thomas_h says

        Aug 19, 2014 at 5:14 pm

        hey Wellington,

        “Besides, if Hollyweird did do a remake, it would very likely be full of PC/MC nonsense as well as at least one gratuitous sex scene—””

        Just thought about it. Hollyweird is in jihad against beauty, truth, innocence, male and female virtues, patriotism, Christianity…

        Funny, yesterday I saw “Harvey” with James Stewart. A wonderful movie. Seeing these old movies makes one think how much poorer we are today than years ago.

        take care, my friend

  12. DavidE says

    Aug 18, 2014 at 11:49 pm

    It’s good that the Mosul Dam is under Kurdish control. I don’t think ISIS would have breached the dam because it would have devastated Mosul which is under their control. ISIS is probably going to increase pressure on Bagdhad now. Regarding the Pope, it’s good that he approves of force in this situation.

  13. PJG says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 12:22 am

    Terrorism is caused by poverty and oppression…says the Vatican.
    Really? REALLY? This line is still being used? Even by the Vatican, with its libraries and theological experts and access to every bit of information on the planet?
    Then why didn’t ISIS stop when they got control of the oil? Surely selling virgin Christian girls in the marketplace for peanuts (compared to oil money) is SOME indication that “poverty and oppression” is an excuse for terrorism that even hard-core dhimmis might hesitate to make.

  14. bobm says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 12:29 am

    We are VERY close to the times of antichrist, the false prophet, the beast.. the times of Revelation… when good shall be called evil… and evil …. good.

  15. kit says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 12:42 am

    sadly the pope is clueless, it is embarrassing to be catholic when he suffers from islamophilia

  16. Michael Copeland says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 2:57 am

    The Vatican evidently shares the “hi-jacked Religion of Peace” mantra.
    See how they “unambiguously denounce and condemn” the practices of Islamic State in Iraq. In doing so they unwittingly denounce and condemn orthodox Koranic Islam. See
    http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/index.php/home/root/news-libertygb/6538-vatican-blind-to-islamic-reality

  17. Wtf? says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 3:18 am

    This is a Papal decree. Let the final Crusade begin hahahahaha

  18. Rinzai says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 3:23 am

    ”Blah,blah ,blah , misunderstood religion of peace…” No one with such a view can ever make any sort of difference, and this dhimmi pope is no exception.

  19. chrisleo says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 4:45 am

    Once the IS is crushed and it will happen soon now that air strikes are authorised, those who survive will start to return to their ghettos across Europe, then the real fun will start. Mark my words, its only a matter time before we see blood flowing on Europe’s streets.

  20. Tommo says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 5:21 am

    The trouble with putting old men in powerful positions, they think like old men – don’t rock the boat, lets have an easy time, no hard decisions please, don’t upset anyone, maybe I can see this out without making a fool of myself. And when he goes he will be replaced by another old man.

  21. paddy says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 5:26 am

    Well….anybody of any consequence on the global stage who is endorsing military action against these (and every other) jihadists is fine by me.

  22. Rezali Mehil says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 6:03 am

    All,
    This scope of this argument is much more than just the Pope – forget about him.

    It is more around the differences in thinking between the Muslim and the Western/ANO (=kuffar) mind.

    Modern Western man, has mostly been unable to assign a dominant and central place to religion in his own affairs. He has then extended this “thinking” asking about how any other peoples can do so…”how infantile is that they think ?”

    He has tried to explain away this religious phenomena in a superficial and mocking manner. E.g. “Was Muhammad SAW Sincere in his deeds?” There are lengthy explanations of the “real” significance of the religious conflicts within Islam between different sects and the “real” meaning of sectarian and communal struggles at the present time.

    JWers are confused about how men (and women) would fight and die in such numbers over mere differences of religion… that there has to be some other “genuine” reason…well there isn’t and shia have been suffering by the sunni thinking …”how infantile are the shia”?

    The sunni in the meantime has extended these differences to operate to “all and sundry” i.e. kuffar and not just shia.

    The sunni operates in a win/lose/waiting cyclic context …all is acceptable as this cycle has been created by Allah SWT …a sunni Muslim born will be in one of these states …and it may change during his lifetime …it may not ….in which case …just wait for the next generation.

    The sunni starts by creating uncertainty over an area leading to instability… using fear, brutality over that area of instability…in numbers , tactics, and once that is conquered …move to create the next area of instability….all the while moving forward…collecting booty and a swell of numbers…the sunni can “smell” his ally and his foe.

    You can see this modus operandi in Iraq at the moment with ISIS….it is basic, it is infantile …it is fearful but it is DEADLY.

    The Westerner to his detriment revolves his life around ego and materialism …much like the sunni… and so (if and) when the sunni moves forward in the West …I fear that a lot of westerners (particularly the women)…will be attracted to the strength and materialistic gain on offer….if you don’t believe me …look at how monsters are suddenly created during street rioting.

    Westerners decisions will lead to their own downfall ….I feel that there is only 20 or so years left …in which the world may change forever….many JWers here talking big today …sad as it is …they too will become sunni too.

    More Later ….

    Rezali

    • gravenimage says

      Aug 22, 2014 at 11:33 pm

      The vile Rezali Mehil wrote:

      It is more around the differences in thinking between the Muslim and the Western/ANO (=kuffar) mind…

      There are lengthy explanations of the “real” significance of the religious conflicts within Islam between different sects and the “real” meaning of sectarian and communal struggles at the present time.

      JWers are confused about how men (and women) would fight and die in such numbers over mere differences of religion… that there has to be some other “genuine” reason…
      …………………………………

      This is certainly true of some in the West, but most of us here are all too aware that Islam is what really motivates pious Muslims.

      Also note what Rezali Mehil posits—that only Muslims take religion seriously—not the Kuffar. Were this true, of course, then Christians threatened with beheading would *never* refuse to convert to Islam—why would they?

      And the idea that decent people—religious or otherwise—somehow lack ethics if they are not willing to mass-slaughter innocent people in the name of their beliefs, as pious Muslims do—is just grotesque.

      More:

      well there isn’t and shia have been suffering by the sunni thinking …”how infantile are the shia”?
      …………………………………

      The problem isn’t that Sunnis consider Shi’ites “infantile”, but that they consider them *heretics*, and hence fair game for oppression and slaughter just as though they were Infidels.

      More:

      The sunni in the meantime has extended these differences to operate to “all and sundry” i.e. kuffar and not just shia.
      …………………………………

      Nothing unusual here, or specific to Sunnis—*all* Muslims target both Infidels and other-sect Muslims.

      Rezali Mehil has tried this before—implying that our only problem is with Sunnis, but it is not. The Shi’ites in Iran are vowing “Death to America!” and to wipe Israel off the map, as well.

      More:

      The sunni operates in a win/lose/waiting cyclic context …all is acceptable as this cycle has been created by Allah SWT …a sunni Muslim born will be in one of these states …and it may change during his lifetime …it may not ….in which case …just wait for the next generation…
      …………………………………

      Just substitute “Sunni” with “Muslim” and this is accurate…

      More:

      You can see this modus operandi in Iraq at the moment with ISIS….it is basic, it is infantile …it is fearful but it is DEADLY.

      The Westerner to his detriment revolves his life around ego and materialism …much like the sunni… and so (if and) when the sunni moves forward in the West …I fear that a lot of westerners (particularly the women)…will be attracted to the strength and materialistic gain on offer….
      …………………………………

      What crap. This isn’t “strength”, but just savagery. As for “materialistic gain”, this is just laughable. Muslims are good at looting the material wealth of others, but can create almost nothing.

      Needless to say, such piracy *does not* lead to long-term wealth creation.

      This far, almost all the Westerners attracted to Islam have been complete losers—violent felons and the same sort of women who wind up marrying prisoners on death row.

      More:

      Westerners decisions will lead to their own downfall ….I feel that there is only 20 or so years left …in which the world may change forever….many JWers here talking big today …sad as it is …they too will become sunni too.
      …………………………………

      Basically, Rezali Mehil has seesawed back and forth between begging Westerners to oppose ISIS in order to save her and her fellow Shia, and gloating over the triumph of Islam and threat to the West that the Islamic State represents—no matter the threat to Shi’ites.

      The above from her is a bit of both.

      Also—if the Islamic State was Shi’ite rather than Sunni, she would have *no* qualms about our being overrun by them.

  23. Angemon says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 6:36 am

    “In these cases, where there is an unjust aggression, I can only say that it is licit to stop the unjust aggressor,” Francis said. “I underscore the verb ‘stop.’ I’m not saying ‘bomb’ or ‘make war,’ just ‘stop.’ And the means that can be used to stop them must be evaluated.”.

    With all due respect, Your Holiness, the only way to stop people like those in ISIS is total annihilation. Anything less than that and you’re only ensuring that the next fight will be even bloodier since you’ll be fighting against battle hardened troops looking for revenge.

    “One nation alone cannot judge how you stop this, how you stop an unjust aggressor,” he said, apparently referring to the United States. “After World War II, the idea of the United Nations came about: It’s there that you must discuss ‘Is there an unjust aggression? It seems so. How should we stop it?’ Just this. Nothing more.”

    Yeah, I’m sure OIC members will rush to speak against what ISIS is doing to non-muslims… If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

  24. Jim Colville says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 7:02 am

    Has he read the part of the Koran which says “kill the people of the book”
    IE Jews and Christians?

  25. Basho says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 8:16 am

    A dupe and a fool…but he DOES look good in a beanie and dress.

  26. Luciano says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 8:30 am

    Pope Francis should read some history. It seems to me that for most of Islamic history, Muslims have been mis-reading the Koran.

    One Man’s Opinion,
    The Cycling Tuscan

  27. duh_swami says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 10:07 am

    Bottom line…I don’t trust anyone who thinks Allah is God…Does Francis think that Allah is God? Is that what a proper reading of Quran told him? Since I’m not a Catholic, I don’t care much about the Pope anyway…But if he believes Allah is God, he cannot be trusted any more than you would trust Aslan, or Hooper, or Choudary…

    • Champ says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 6:22 pm

      Such a great point, Duh_Swami!!!

      And allah is NOT the God of the Bible:

      Muslims believe that there is no other God besides Allah and that he is the God of the universe. They claim that not only is he their God, but that he is the God of the Jews, the Christians and everyone else. When examining the profile of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and comparing it with Allah’s profile, there are a number of distinct differences between them that can only result in one conclusion: These profiles simply do not match! Allah is NOT the God of the Bible!

      The Islamic faith, through the teachings of Muhammad, asserts that Allah is God and attempt to place him within the confines of the Holy Scriptures. When the Bible contradicts their teachings, they allege that it is flawed, has been tampered with, and has many errors. They further claim that the Koran, through the teachings of their prophet Muhammad, corrects them. However, it has already been established that Muhammad was both a false prophet and teacher. Therefore, Islam’s allegations are unsupported, baseless and without merit.

      There are a number of major differences between the God of the Bible and Allah. This chapter will focus upon five reasons why they are not the same. According to the Holy Scriptures, the God of the Bible is the one true God while Allah is a false god.

      More here:

      http://kingmessiahproject.com/is_allah_not_God.html

  28. andrea_erickson says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 2:04 pm

    People, in particular Protestants, often misunderstand the term Infallibility. The term, Infallibility, is often misunderstood to mean that every word out of the Pope’s mouth is infallible. This is far from the truth. Infallibility is defined , in general, the “exemption or immunity from liability to error or failure; in particular in theological usage, the supernatural prerogative by which the Church of Christ is, by a special Divine assistance, preserved from liability to error in her definitive dogmatic teaching regarding matters of faith and morals.”http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm Note the phrase: “faith and morals”. No where in this definition does it say that opinions are infallible. Take also the passage from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 2035: ” The supreme degree of participation in the authority of Christ is ensured by the charism of infallibility. This infallibility extends as far as does the deposit of divine Revelation; it also extends to all those elements of doctrine, including morals, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, explained, or observed.” Source: http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/index.cfm I understand that Protestants, ie: Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans- etc. do not accept the doctrine of Papal Authority . Papal Authority is a topic for another discussion.

  29. KiwiInfidel says

    Aug 20, 2014 at 12:26 am

    So just what language was he reading it in. Perhaps he came with this interpretation;
    Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear
    Fuzzy wuzzy had no hair
    Fuzzy wuzzy wasnt fuzzy wuzzy was he

  30. Gardener says

    Aug 20, 2014 at 2:04 am

    That “authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence” is a vexatious statement. However, if the Koran is taken as a holy book of some sort, then it means it has to conform to Church teaching, and therefore the “proper reading of the Koran” has to be opposed to violence. That is, if Muslims “profess … to hold the faith of Abraham” (Lumen Gentium), then the authentic understanding would have to fall in line with the Church. I’d translate the Italian sentence in question as “the true Islam and an appropriate interpretation of the Koran oppose all forms of violence”. What is the true Islam? It isn’t defined.

    I understand why people are not happy with the wording. If I were the pope, I’d leave out that sentence and end with “avoid hateful generalisations”, which precedes the statement about Islam and the Koran. I would also put a couple of tenets of Islam on the table in an indirect way while feigning ignorance. But I certainly wouldn’t write “Islam incontrovertibly teaches Muslims to oppress and kill non-Muslims” or something along those lines. It wouldn’t help in evangelizing Muslims who do not actually believe that at all.

    I also think it needs to be pointed out the sentence is a part of a long (almost 50,000 words in English) document about evangelization. It does not define doctrine, it is an apostolic exhortation to evangelize. It opens with, “The joy of the gospel fills the hearts and lives of all who encounter Jesus. Those who accept his offer of salvation are set free from sin, sorrow, inner emptiness and loneliness. With Christ joy is constantly born anew. In this Exhortation I wish to encourage the Christian faithful to embark upon a new chapter of evangelization marked by this joy, while pointing out new paths for the Church’s journey in years to come.”

    I find Spencer’s sarcastic quips in this context uncharitable.

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