These girls appear to be surpassingly naive, but the fault does not lie with them: they have almost certainly been taught nothing about Islam except that it is a Religion of Peace that inspired a great civilization and numerous inventions and innovations. They were almost certainly never taught that the kidnapping of Infidels is justified in the Qur’an (47:4) and Islamic law.
“Two female Italian aid workers who ignored their parents’ pleas and snuck into Syria have been kidnapped by Islamist militants,” by John Hall, Daily Mail, August 14, 2014 (thanks to all who sent this in):
Two female Italian aid workers have been kidnapped by Islamist militants in northern Syria.
Greta Ramelli, 20, and Vanessa Marzullo, 21, were working on humanitarian projects in the embattled city of Aleppo the Italian foreign ministry said, admitting that contact with the women is ‘impossible’.
Today Salvatore Marzullo, the father of Vanessa, spoke of his ‘sickening’ fear for his daughter’s safety, as Italy’s deputy foreign minister said the country is working ‘belly to the ground’ to find them.
The group that has kidnapped Miss Ramelli and Miss Marzullo have not yet been formally identified, but Jordanian newspaper Assabeel was quoted as saying investigators believe they an armed Islamist group which has previously kidnapped Western activists and journalists.
Although official details of the kidnapping remain sketchy, the newspaper cites a local activist as saying the women were kidnapped on August 1 and taken to the town of El Ismo, west of Aleppo where they were transported to the home of the head of the local ‘Revolutionary Council’.
The newspaper claimed the activist told them that details of the abduction came from Italian journalist Daniele Raineri of Il Foglio, who they say was taken along with the woman but managed to escape.
Speaking to the Italian newspaper Corriere Della Sera today, Miss Marzullo’s father said he had pleaded with his daughter not to travel to Syria to distribute aid, but she had insisted on doing so.
Apparently speaking in a voice cracked with emotion and anxiety, Salvatore Marzullo said: ‘What could I do? Vanessa is an adult, a golden girl, brave and responsible. I tried to reason with her, I tried to convince her in every way I could not to do what she had in mind.’
‘But when you realize that all your talk, your thoughts, and eventually all your prayers are not heard, what can you do?,’ he added.
‘I could not stop her from doing what she wanted. It’s not like you can take a person and tie them down. Tell me what I had to do. Was I wrong? I had to tie her down?,’ he went on to say.
Mr Marzullo said his daughter had long sympathised with the plight on Syrians and had taken part in a number of protests and demonstrations in her home city of Bergamo.
While studying Linguistic and Cultural Mediation at the University of Milan, her interest in activism grew – as did her desire to travel to Syria and help.
Mr Marzullo said the family – including younger brother Mario – tried to convince the 21-year-old to stay in Italy and set up a foundation, but she said it wouldn’t be enough and that she must do more.
According to their Facebook pages, the two women have made several visits to Syria since 2012.
On their latest trip they flew to Turkey before sneaking into Syria through Atma – a huge refugee camp on the border between the two countries – according to La Stampa.
Miss Ramelli’s most recent Facebook update was on July 31 and showed a picture of a young boy holding a rifle in a heavily shelled area of Aleppo.
Meanwhile Miss Marzullo’s latest post read: ‘Red, red like that crib, and in the crib the battered little body of the girl of Aleppo whose legs were pulverised by an explosion.’
‘Red like the bloodstains encrusted on the walls and the floor – in the corner of the room where you have been tortured until you want to die, until you die in an unspeakably horrible way,’ she added.
Miss Ramelli and Miss Marzulo are not the only Italian citizens held by militants around the world.
Aid worker Giovanni Lo Porto, 38, went missing in Pakistan in 20212, while clerk Gianluca Salviato, 48, and technician Marco Vallisa were kidnapped in Libya in March and July respectively.
Rinzai says
The only way in which a woman aids Islam is when she is a sex slave/”wife”. Those girls are probably going to realize this the hard way very soon.
Bezelel says
I can’t help feeling the girls were aware of that possibility of being sex slaves. If not they are worse than stupid. They were probably swooning over the Boston bombers as well. Not being a psychiatrist, I can only assume they are insane.
SpiritOf1683 says
They obviously weren’t aware of the possibility of becoming sex slaves. If they had been, they surely wouldn’t have gone there. The reason they weren’t aware is down to the PC mantra of denying harsh facts, injecting gullibility into people with the false belief that everyones the same, and putting a sugar coating on evil.
Oliver says
I disagree. This was NOT there first trip to Syria.
ALSO, SEVERAL trips since 2012. Does that mean more then 1 per year?
If so, there must have been expenses. Where did the $$$ come from? or was their salary as ‘aid workers’ that high?
I have no sympathy for these two women; probably will be criticized for that.
I do feel sorry, a bit, for the families.
But, again– SEVERAL trips to Syria?
Where were the parents? I realize that 20-21 they are adults, but still?
To me, something stinks, badly, about this entire thing.
besides the Muslims, that is.
SpiritOf1683 says
Well it seems that because this wasn’t their first trip to Syria, that makes things worse still, and because they didn’t get kidnapped on their previous visits, that made it okay to go, which dimmed their senses of awareness, making them even less watchful, and this is a classic example of the corrosive effects of political correctness in action. Something should have told them that with ISIS strengthening their hold on the area that it would become more dangerous and they would become more vulnerable, but it didn’t, and now they might well have a dire future.
Bro. Nick says
@ Oliver – I have great sympathy and sorrow for your hard heartedness.
Would your reaction be the same if these 2 young very misguided women were daughters of a friend?
– or of your brother or sister?
– or if they were your daughters?
The lack of real and true CHRISTian care for the very real persecution of other human beings all around this world – men, women, boys, and girls should be absolutely appalling and yet another reason for real concern and grief for many!
– BUT IT IS NOT!!!
However it does go to the Biblical proof of the prophesied falling into Apathy, Complacency and Apostasy which will occur yet more and more in these ‘end-of-the-end times’ in which we are living.
Oliver says
To Bro. Nick,
My hard heartedness is because they had to know what they were doing is dangerous and wrong. They were not kiving in a bubble or incubator or on life support machinery and brain dead. Or, perhaps they were brain dead.
I used to date a lovely woman who was a victim of a vicious rape (actually, a date rape, from a guy she had dated for months). It was hell–and she did not go to a dangerous place. She went to a party, date smoked grass, got high and raped her.
I hae sympathy for crime victims, but not when they (in essence) do it to themselves.
Someone mentioned in response to me-I was blaming the victim, like if a woman wearing provocative clothing got raped, it was her fault. I never said that, but will answer. IF the woman wore the provocative clothing (to a Muslim that could be anything less then a giant garbage bag) AND WENT–PRURPOSELY INTO A WELL KNOWN HIGH CRIME AREA, WHER THERE WERE OFTEN SEX CRIMES, then yes, she was asking for it.
If the same woman went to a local mall, and was abducted, then no.
And, sneaking into the country-another warning signal-if cannot enter “normally”.
Also, not you, someone asked if from when I was 14 to 24 I ever snuck into any place. The answer is NO. If it was where would have to pay-if I didn’t have or could not get, the money, I did without. Otherwise, where would one sneak into? When I went to Europe, I had a valid passport and all necessary papers.
AND (AGAIN, IT WAS NOT YOU) I WOULD THINK THAT THERE IS A MAJOR, MAJOR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SNEAKING INTO A MOVIE THEATER, OR ATHLETIC EVENT THEN SNEAKING INTO A COUNTRY IN THE MIDST OF A WAR.
If the person who asked that does not see the difference, thenn she has a problem–of, in my opinion, major pronlem, of knowing proportions. Sort of a risk/reward ratiom.
Thanks for your comment, however.
Oliver says
Sakovat (I hope I spelled it correctly), you have explained exactly what I was trying to.
Your wording is superior to mine.
Thanks
gravenimage says
Bezelel wrote:
They were probably swooning over the Boston Bombers as well.
………………………….
They were helping out *at a refugee camp*. The idea that these well-meaning but clueless girls were actually *Jihad sympathizers* who deserved what they got is grotesquely cynical.
Here in the West, there are *far* more clueless people than there are actual sympathizers with Islamic savagery.
Mirren10 says
You and Jan fourowls are absolutely correct, graven.
I now retract what I said about their foolishness, although I certainly never wished for anything bad to happen to them.
You and Jan are far more clear-eyed than I.
Bezelel says
I did not say they deserve what they got. However the laws of physics pretty much mandate it. My layman’s opinion is that the girls are insane regardless of their motivation, even the ones who swoon over the Boston bombers, to me, are insane. I have read some good points on how they got that way but never the less their behavior, to me, is nothing less than an act of insanity. I don’t condone bungee jumping either. If a bungee jumper makes a grave error in judgement would you say they had it coming?
gravenimage says
Oh, Mirren—I never said these young women weren’t foolish—I agree that they were, at the least, quite rash. Chances are that they never *really* understood how dangerous walking into an active jihad zone is.
But that is very different from their actually *supporting evil*, as some here have assumed.
Charli Main says
Quite probably these two PC MC bone head women will be providing “aid ” to a long line of Muslims, in the form of 2 hour marriages.
Jan Fourowls says
@ Charli Main – 2 minute. Uncounted stops and starts on the train. They’ll either die from it or wish they were dead.
Truly sad. What a horrible way to learn a hard life-to-death lesson. Also the two little Amish girls just kidnapped in upstate NY from their family’s fruit stand may be similar Islamic kidnapping-rape victims, from the internet chatter about unresolved long-term stalking of Amish females in northern NY by what appear to be Muslim men, not investigated by law enforcement in any meaningful way as no longer can occur with the “non-profiling” pro-Islam quasi-Sharia of the U.S. intel policies of 2014.
Many Amish tend to have a strong faith in Jesus Christ so He may protect these little girls supernaturally from experiencing the worst horror before their likely deaths. Also they’re so little as to still definitely be children, and Jesus said: “Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.” Matthew 18:10.
If Christianity is an Abrahamic religion, then Islam founded by Qutham which is nothing like Christianity in 21st practice cannot also be.
I’m no longer calling the pseudo-prophet by the name attributed because he’s not praised by me, not at all, and being satanic Qutham is cursed by the real God who otherwise is forgiving and loving. Plus phonetically Qutham sounds like the anti-halal “cut ham” which lends a little needed levity.
Child of the Most High God says
I feel very sorry with so many of these liberated, western female kids are so gullible to think that they are doing a favor to promote peace and help muslims as Islam is a religion of peace. They don’t know that Islam will change their live forever. They will face a harsh reality as a sex slave of these demonic monsters.
Jan Fourowls says
@ Child of the Most High God – Yes, exactly. Thank you for having both discernment about evil and a heart for those who are evil’s victims.
Jan Fourowls says
To all commenters disparaging and further victimizing these young ladies — Other online reports confirm that these two young ladies were going to Syria over the years to help those being brutalized by the uber-terrorist IS (aka ISIL and ISIS) and the Al-Qaeda operatives who preceded the official formation of IS. Italy to Syria isn’t a big deal in that part of the world — by analogy it for an American would be something like a trip from Virginia to Texas. Other online reports show one of the sex-slave victims with a Muslima not in a burka or similar shroud but colorful loosely worn hajib who otherwise looks Westernized, apparently seeking freedom from the more radicalized Muslim cruelties. They weren’t over there to date jihadists, please, have some decency and humanity. After all the U.S. government and military has been in that part of the world for years publicly contending that it was bringing “democracy.” Islam of the IS variety is an unmitigated hell. There are less horrific versions of Islam possible and currently practiced, even if the conquest theology of the Quran is monolithic.
How can you sit here and judge these young ladies so harshly for seeking by their aid to bring Muslimas and their children, boys and girls, out of the horror of the worst radicalized Islam when they’re no doubt encountering the most terrifying of possible physical and sexual abuses now for having a caring heart?
gravenimage says
Agreed, Jan—good comments. I can’t believe so many have jumped to the conclusion—with no basis—that these girls are Jihad sympathizers rather than what they look like—brutalized aid workers.
The fact is that Islam has a long, ugly history of targeting aid workers—one only has to glance back through the Jihad Watch archives to see this.
Do they assume that all the priests and nuns who have been kidnapped and murdered were actually Jihadists, as well?
Bro. Nick says
@ Jan – I concur with your observations and – Thank You for your caring and tender heart , which is not often seen in these very perilous and growingly evil days in which we are living – TODAY!
How many that are truly followers of “Jesus Christ” – CHRISTians – have PRAYED specifically for these two very misguided and gullible young women
– if they are real followers of “the Lord Jesus Christ”, for their safety and that “the LORD JEHOVAH” will use them for His Glory. (Ps 115:1 – KJV)
– if they ARE NOT CHRISTians – that “the LORD GOD” will use their circumstances to bring them to the place and time where they will accept “the Lord Jesus Christ” as their personal Saviour!!!
PLEASE READ, study and absolutely believe what the following Scripture verses say and mean
– Isaiah 55:8-9 | Jer 32:27 | 2 Peter 3:9 | James 5:16 | Prov 22:17-21
– I personally recommend the KJV, for the wording is pure and clear and strong – and I know that all of these verses are there!
bicky says
Probably they were excited about becoming sex slaves, that is the only logical explanation.
Jan Fourowls says
@ bicky – uncalled for and mean-spirited, not funny. RS in the article gives the obvious reasons for p.c.-meme-controlled young people.
Jan Fourowls says
@ PJ: Thank you! If JW commenters cannot show a morality (religious or otherwise) higher than the Islamic jihadists we critique, then as an informational blog JW loses much of its ability to educate those who are in the dark about Islam and its dangers to all humane people.
Oliver says
I agree; we will both probably be blasted
Jan Fourowls says
@ Oliver – correct, you’re blasted.
Islam might after all be an ideology in which you and bicky would find kindred unsouls.
Oliver says
To Philip J & Jan F.
They made several trips there. They were seemingly educated.
There have been reports all over (even in- don’t know about Italy but in the US) lame stream media about sex slavery.
About kidnappings, etc.
And an earlier post- the same (from Italy to Syria) as from Virginia to Texas- well, that is in a (usually, somewhat) civilized country (the US); Syria is not AND I BELEIVE IT IS MENTIONED THAT THEY SNUCK into Syria.
Seems that to sneak in- not quite the same, as trip.
And it is wartime- what can they expect?
I am unrepentant.
I have no sympathy for them.
And as I mentioned ( as did others, and the article) they made several trips.
To ‘help the Muslimas and the boys and girls’– and they can 9 and do) kill as well as the males.
Jan Fourowls says
@ Oliver – you probably just aren’t very sympathetic in general, but of course we are free to disagree on that and all other points. I’ve said what I wanted to on behalf of these young women and it’s enough. (Did you never sneak into anyplace when you were aged 14 through about 24?)
gravenimage says
Excellent posts, Philip.
Champ says
Oliver …
Add one more fact: the warning from one girl’s father NOT to go!
Mr. Marzullo begged his daughter not to go, but she chose to go to Syria anyway. I imagine Vanessa can think of little else, right now, than her dear father’s warning, and *wishing* that she had only listened to her father.
Yes, these young women were not naive and chose to go against a father’s better judgment. This cannot be discounted.
Some here seem to be overlooking this very important fact.
That said, this crime is *not* their fault, but the sole responsibility of these evil perpetrators. THEY are the ones who need to be held accountable.
Jay Boo says
Some respected scholars claim that the honorable prophet Muhammad was such a lecherous individual that he grew a third hand.
The historic evidence of this fact has been lost to history ever since he was caught thieving.
Jan Fourowls says
@ Jay Boo — this one’s funny.
Jay Boo says
Most likely they were offered some customary sweets as a sign of good will followed-up with a heavy dose of feigned friendship which is also customary.
Then again they could have just been kidnapped outright without the usual grooming technique.
The same techniques of pedophile Muhammad.
Bill says
Islam =Nazism.
Islam= authoritarianism
Islam= misogamy
Islam=jihad
Islam=abuse, torture and death to non Muslims
Islam=cleptocracy
Islam=the collapse of western law
Islam=moribund systems of agriculture and economy
Islam=intolerance
Islam=deception and subversion of the west
Islam=AntiChrist
Jan Fourowls says
@ Bill – appreciate the honesty, and on the last one, 1 John 2:22 confirms it because Islam denies the Father and the Son (also the trinity). Qutham (because he’s not praised by me), the founder of Islam, could not comprehend the trinity’s concept of relationship within monotheism. Islam basically can have no relationship with anything but deception and death.
Wetwork56 says
We all know where to place the blame for this….
“While studying Linguistic and Cultural Mediation at the University of Milan, her interest in activism grew – as did her desire to travel to Syria”…..Academia and becoming an activist. Sound familiar America?
Also, a poor choice of words from Italy’s deputy foreign minister “Belly to the ground”. As being “milk al-yasmin” these women will soon BE “Belly to the ground”.
Wetwork56 says
I will say a prayer for the families of these naive women, and hope for their safe return. Perhaps if that does indeed happen, they might become strong voices in Italy as to the true nature of Islam.
Elise says
Stop denigrating the Italian women who have big hearts and say a prayer for them. The women who wrote the book, “Captive in Iran” have large hearts due to their Christian faith.
SpiritOf1683 says
I’m sorry but some places are strictly off limits if you value your freedom and your loved ones. Syria is one of them, Iran is another. Any area where these ISIS savages are present should be avoided like the plague. Only those who are grateful for aid and won’t kidnap or kill you are worthy of it, and the only time aid can be distributed in that part of Syria is after ISIS has been completely wiped out, but the way things are going, that doesn’t look very likely, and the simple message for those who are thinking of going there is DON’T.
Jan Fourowls says
@ Elise and Wetwork5 – yes, prayer definitely. Thank you! Major persistent Ephesians 6 prayer for the eternal dominion of Jesus Christ whose saving blood ultimately conquers the schemes of the devil, praying to overcome the principalities, powers and world forces of darkness and the spiritual forces of wickedness in high heavenly places. And for Greta Ramelli, 20, and Vanessa Marzullo, 21, who were working on humanitarian projects, prayer for them here or hereafter.
Jan Fourowls says
@ SpiritOf1683 – You won’t find me arguing against the sane reality that Syria under IS should be off limits for visits. My main point is that Greta Ramelli, 20, and Vanessa Marzullo, 21, are youth at that most idealistic of life stages when it is common to make mistakes like sneaking in, probably to see and hope to comfort kids and moms who as insufficiently murderous Muslims are being devastated by IS according to reports from that region. Greta and Vanessa certainly never asked to be kidnapped, gang raped, made sex slaves and who knows what other horrors enacted against them by the Muslim males in charge of IS.
Yes, it is true that women and children are brainwashed and terrorized to engage in terrorist acts by the males who run jihadist Islam — but they are not the rulers of it and obviously suffer a form of theocratic Stockholm syndrome. (How could they not if living around men who behead their enemies and brandish severed heads as trophies?) And because they are co-opted to behave at times like terrorists, anybody with mature intelligence who cares would pray from a distance and not sneak into Syria in the misguided youthful zeal of wanting to make a difference. However, it is the evil of Islam that makes the penalty for their youthful mistake so severe, not their all-too-human youthful error for which they did not deserve IS terrorist kidnapping and do not deserve pro-rapist slams in these comments.
Bro. Nick says
@ Jan – YES on the wondrous answers to PRAYER by “the LORD GOD”!
ALL CHRISTians should also remember James 5:16 when we PRAY!
Doglicka says
Aw man. You god botherers are so annoying! You do realize you are as deceived as the muslims you are criticizing don’t you?
Every time you invoke one of your sky gods you belittle yourself, your argument, and this site.
SpiritOf1683 says
Political correctness in the West has been the bane of these two young ladies. Unfortunately they couldn’t see danger when it was there, and that Syria was becoming a more dangerous place for them to be in by the minute. Because they got away with it in the past, they naively thought they’d get away with it again and again, and as a result failed to realise that it would only be a matter of time before their luck ran out. And it isn’t only youngsters who fall into that trap. Ken Bigley, who was 63, was warned by his Iraqi neighbours that Iraq was too unsafe for him, and that he’d better not go back, but he ignored them, thought he knew best and went back once too often, got kidnapped by Zarqawi’s savages, then ended up having his beheading filmed and put out on DVDs after his kidnappers had filmed him pleading to Tony Blair and George W Bush. In that neck of the woods, naivety carries a hefty price, and let that be a lesson for anyone else who is thinking about following in their footsteps.
Jan Fourowls says
@ Wetwork56 — also I noticed that odd choice of words from Italy’s deputy foreign minister and if he’s a taqiyya-tactition like Obama and his high-ranking executive branch members, it could be a creepy wink-wink to his fellow pro-Islamists who are following jihadist progress by e-media.
Jay Boo says
It would be considered improper for a Muslim to commit kidnapping and rape for personal reasons which is why Muhammad invented Islam in the first place to use as an excuse to kidnap and rape and arrange forced ‘marriages’ to attempt to dignify the filth known as Muhammad.
Every Muslim knows Muhammad is shit.
They just don’t admit it.
salamander says
Oh ye of little faith, I am perfectly sure these two young girls will be shown the warm hospitality that Islam is rightly known for, and I am sure that their story will inspire many other young girls to hurry towards these fleapits, providing that is of course if they are ever heard from again
joeb says
I hope the fate of their fellow countryman, Vittorio Arrigoni, doesn’t await them.
joeb says
Oh god – I’ve just noticed:
“..While studying Linguistic and Cultural Mediation..”
I think that’s it right there, dear reader…
Myxlplik says
Most people survive the large dose of moral relativism you catch from most Universities.
These girls got a lethal dose.
joeb says
It’s awful, isn’t it? They are “sacrificing themselves on the altar of their ideals” as Jamie Glazov puts it in his excellent book.
SpiritOf1683 says
And their lecturers will probably have told them that Israel is the problem.
Oliver says
Or, George W. Bush is the problem.
or is George W only the problem and cause of the problem for Nobama?
Oliver says
RE: Israel- possibly a bit off, but as a good a place as any.
MOST people–especially liberturds and the (un)intelligent “intelligentsia” forgot 9or perhaps do not want to remember.
LESS THEN 10 YEARS AGO, Israel gave GAZA to the Palestinians. Along with numerous greenhouses and a thriving aquaculture business.
Bill Gates is supposed to have kicked in $30 million to pay for this.
WITHIN DAYS–LIKE 2 OR 3, the greenhouses were destroyed; piping sold for scrap metal; computers stripped for their metals; etc.
Hundreds of millions of dollars, Euros, etc. poured in to Gaza.
And then Fatah/PA and Hamas went to war with each other, and Israel. Bad part- Fatah/PA and Hamas did NOT kill enough of each other. Then ( the only election ever held there, under Muslim rule) and Hamas won.
And they spent their hundreds of millions on weapons; tunnels; and the good life for their leaders.
shit, if that generous, to the masses.
And the liberturds; the Carter anal pores; the unintelligent “intelligentsia” kepp calling for a ‘ 2 state” ssolution.
ISRAEL GAVE THEM THE START A DECADE AGO.
Why do it again?
No Fear says
Anyone who destroys a greenhouse is pure evil.
Anushirvan says
The deliberate dumbing down of Generation Y in secondary / university education is a global phenomenon for sure. Flaunting Western female assertiveness in Muslim dominated countries is a bad idea. It shows a definite lack of any realism in modern education today.
Multiculturalism / moral relativism has to be THE dumbest ideology ever invented.
Beagle says
PC kills, often in horribly violent, brutal, and dehumanizing ways. It is amazing how many people think truth is too dangerous to let just anyone be aware of it.
Another factor very much in play here is the ongoing European willingness to pay millions of dollars for hostages. This is a callback to the story about Alqaedageld from Europe keeping the organization afloat.
Reality Check says
They may have been raped already. Muslims never forgive a woman for just being around.
Champ says
Speaking to the Italian newspaper Corriere Della Sera today, Miss Marzullo’s father said he had pleaded with his daughter not to travel to Syria to distribute aid, but she had insisted on doing so.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well, her father warned her …and now I hope and pray that these two women are returned home safely. But this is evil islam and company we’re talking about, and sadly, this may not turn out well for them. I would love to be wrong here.
SpiritOf1683 says
And these are the people Cameron wanted to help. For all his faults, Bashar Assad and his Alawites are the lesser of two evils. And this is the fruits of 50 years of political correctness, that everybody is largely the same, and it is a load of tosh. These girls disobeyed their parents who obviously knew better than what they did, much to their cost. And yes, political correctness doesn’t prepare people for the ravages of life.
Beagle says
It was amazing watching the US foreign policy establishment do a 180 on Assad in what seemed like an instant. Assad went from a “a reformer… we can work with” to “must go” so quickly it was Orwellian.
We’ve always been at war with Eastsyria.
Oliver says
And, ( this was before his book and calling Israel an ” Apartheid” nation), he went to Syria (not sure if Bush 1 or Bush 2 was President) and he said, ( words to the effect) that “you (Assad) are a more legitimate leader then the Pres. of the US—–“.
The Wall Street Journal, as far as I know, is the only leading/major paper to print it. (James Toranto, who has a blog– BEST OF THE WEB, printed most of it, some years ago- when Carter said it. Toranto asked, perhaps rhetorically, if carter said this because HE LOST 44 of the 50 states when he ran for re-election).
And Carter’s losers became Nobama’s advisors.
Oliver says
I think I saw an item (after you posted this by a day or two) that NOW Cameron is waking up to the fact that there might be a problem.
Regarding Cameron–(I live in the US, not Britain, and don’t follow British politics very much)–during the election where Cameron and his party won the majority of seats, Cameron became PM etc. I spoke to a friend (who lives in the US but is a British national and citizen) and his mother and step-father (British nationals who live there, but were visiting).
Their VIEW–Cameron was the lesser of the evils-the other party leader was more off the wall.
They (sort of compared it) (they were quite conversant in US opolitics)-if it would be a Carter versus John Kerry campaign-two incompetents.
Just, what British citizens (who despise Muslims) thought, at the time. (In a private conversation),
p says
Children’s crusade.
SpiritOf1683 says
Don’t forget how Winston Churchill regarded the treatment of women in Islam in his book The River War:
A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Perhaps if these girls had been aware of The River War they’d have been better off, and nobody should go there without a tracking device implant which will at some time give away their positions to special forces.
Max Modine says
REMEMBER 9/11.
Champ says
Good point, Max …
9/11: That single event educated the entire *world* on how evil and dangerous islam and company truly are. C’mon a person would have to be living under a ROCK not to know the ugly truth about islam after 9/11. And how two young women could possibly think that they’re safe going into Syria is beyond me.
Sorry if anyone may be affended by my frankness: but these two women are without excuse, imho …
SpiritOf1683 says
9/11 along with atrocities like Beslan, Bali, 3/11, 7/7, and now the genocides taking place in Iraq, Syria, Nigeria, and Hamas’s never-ending rocket attacks on Syria ought to have educated the world, but it hasn’t because it has been whitewashed by vast armies of PC multiculturalists, and these atrocities plus the records of 1,400 years of history of conquest, murder and enslavement have been pushed into a dark corner, and the more atrocities we see, the more gallons of whitewash get poured on them by the feckless PC brigade. Unfortunately, if we carry on like this, it will be the death of Western Civilization.
SpiritOf1683 says
9/11 along with atrocities like Beslan, Bali, 3/11, 7/7, and now the genocides taking place in Iraq, Syria, Nigeria, and Hamas’s never-ending rocket attacks on Israel ought to have educated the world, but it hasn’t because it has been whitewashed by vast armies of PC multiculturalists, and these atrocities plus the records of 1,400 years of history of conquest, murder and enslavement have been pushed into a dark corner, and the more atrocities we see, the more gallons of whitewash get poured on them by the feckless PC brigade. Unfortunately, if we carry on like this, it will be the death of Western Civilization.
Champ says
Yes! …there are countless examples showing the *world* just how evil islam and company are. These two women are without excuse, and I’m finding it difficult to feel sorry for them; my sympathies go out to their families.
Oliver says
Champ,
I agree with you. Both this and your post a few items down.
But ( and I mentioned this, but it seems overlooked) THEY MADE SEVERAL TRIPS TO SYRIA, SINCE 2012.
If they didn’t see anything like the evils in ‘several’ trips then they are q
Oliver says
last line should be ; quite stupid and/or naïve. If the latter, not allowed out without an adult.
My views.
Oliver says
last line should be ; quite stupid and/or naïve. If the latter, not allowed out without an adult.
My views.
Champ says
But ( and I mentioned this, but it seems overlooked) THEY MADE SEVERAL TRIPS TO SYRIA, SINCE 2012.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi, Oliver,
I think that they were foolish to go at all …
From their first trip to Syria they’ve been playing russian roulette, and this time they didn’t dodge the bullet. The entire situation saddens me deeply, and I still find it hard to believe that they could be sooo naive. Stupid seems more fitting. That said, even foolish and stupid women do *not* deserve to be kidnapped and/or the other horrors they’re undoubtedly facing right now; which I’m sure you agree. Assuming, of course, that they’re still alive.
I stated earlier that I would love to be wrong and I hope that they are still alive; and it is also still my hope and prayer that these two women are returned home safely.
Take care.
gravenimage says
Yeah—”Linguistic and Cultural Mediation” seems a particularly “politically correct” and content-free course of study.
I Googled it and found these degrees are offered by a number of obscure colleges—mostly in Britain and Europe.
From a quick survey, this guy seems to be the father of the “field” (I use the term loosely):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Silverstein
He appears to be a “linguist” in the same sense that the egregious Noam Chomsky is.
No wonder our children understand so little about the real world—including the terrible threat of Islam.
Jan Fourowls says
@ Champ – They may not have an excuse for being so naive (debatable) but they still don’t deserve to be be kidnapped, gang raped, made sex slaves and who knows what other horrors enacted against them by the Muslim males in charge of IS. They likewise don’t deserve the pro-rapist slams of some of these comments (not yours, but just making a point about how mean-spirited some these comments got, and so quickly. A definite lack of moral fiber shown in the comments I called out as being ugly.)
Bezelel says
I can understand the injustice of “deserve what they got” and that is not the same as “realistic expectations” What did they expect?, given the information they had? The Proverbs say, Prudence dwells with Wisdom. A friend of mine went with his sister to Haiti to help after the earthquake. Their was risk but not quite the same.
Jay Boo says
@Jan Fourowls
It is quite understandable why these comments get so mean spirited against these girls so quickly.
Some folks are just naturally mean spirited and other (anything but Islam types) have been kissing Muslim butts for so long that they feel threatened by anything that puts the full blame on Islam.
Jay Boo says
That bicky is a sickie
anyway my other comment ended up under the wrong place
Champ says
@ Champ – They may not have an excuse for being so naive (debatable) but they still don’t deserve to be be kidnapped, gang raped, made sex slaves and who knows what other horrors enacted against them by the Muslim males in charge of IS.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“Jan” must be blind. I stated that *very* thing on this thread.
Go. Away. Already
Champ says
“Jan Fourowls” …
Here is a comment I wrote to Gravenimage two days ago:
Champ
August 14, 2014 at 11:20 pm
How can frequent posters here fail to understand that we are *far* more knowledgeable here at Jihad Watch about the the threat of Jihad than are most Westerners? Isn’t such education, in fact, the whole purpose of this site?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
True, Gravenimage, but please consider the fact that Mr. Marzullo pleaded with his daughter NOT to go to Syria as he obviously feared for his daughter’s life. So in her case, she DID receive an education–of sorts–by way of a direct warning from her own father. She decided to ignore his warning and accept the risk. That said, these crimes of kidnapping, and whatever else have been done to these young women, are the *sole* responsibility of these evil perpetrators. Charges must be brought against them and THEY need to be held accountable for these crimes, and *not* these two young women. They are not responsible for these crimes against them, but I think that they were foolish to place themselves in harms way and they did this knowingly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You need to reread this ENTIRE thread and educate yourself before you start writing your ignorant comments–again.
Reality Check says
Champ,
I think Jan Fourowls has left the building already, with her tail between her legs, because she was caught lying. She will not return to apologize. To do so, she’ll need another gentle nudge from the Holy Spirit, but I think he took his leave of her, too, so no dice.
Her silence is telling and I’m happy with the departure of this hypocrite. Anyone else?
Champ says
You’re right! Thank you, Reality Check 🙂
I thought that was a new comment, but I should have read the date stamp first :/
SpiritOf1683 says
And this from Gregory Palamus should be in people’s minds as it is just as relevant today as it was in his lifetime 660 years ago:
“For these impious people, hated by God and infamous, boast of having got the better of the Romans by their love of God…they live by the bow, the sword and debauchery, finding pleasure in taking slaves, devoting themselves to murder, pillage, spoil…and not only do they commit these crimes, but even — what an aberration — they believe that God approves of them. This is what I think of them, now that I know precisely about their way of life.” – Gregory Palamus of Thessalonica, 1354.
Burt says
No doubt if they had been aware of her books, both these unfortunate girls would have decried Oriana Fallaci as an unreconstructed ‘islamophobe’. Poor things have been let down very badly by pc media, academic mindset and their politicians.
RCCA says
Noam Chomsky had no comment on the incident.
Walter Sieruk says
God hate kidnapping. In fact, God hate kidnapping do much that He had called for the death penalty for those who engage in that heinous practice. For the Bible reads “Whoever steals someone…must be killed.” Exodus 21;16. [E.R.V.]
voegelinian says
Darwinian selection at work.
voegelinian says
And to the father: Yes, you should have tied her down. What’s more important, violating her precious rights and freedom as an adult, or sparing her from repeated gang-rape, torture, massacre (if not a terrorizing brainwashing conversion)?
voegelinian says
Obviously not worded right; but the drift & gist are there.
Jay Boo says
Who ya gonna blame if not Islam?
Stop getting ‘soft’ on Islam voegelinian
Myxlplik says
As parents we have the right to educate our children about Islam. They start in on our kids here in the States very young, with Saudi funded curriculum on Islam. When they did that to my kids I introduced them to Jihadwatch and required that they read at least one post per day while they were studying Islam in middle school. Jihadwatch should be curriculum for all kafir children. My kids know the truth about Islam, it wasn’t the duty of the parent to tie the kid down, but it was their duty to teach them right from wrong.
voegelinian says
With PC MC as rampant as it is, and has been for decades, I wouldn’t doubt that sometimes it’s the younger generation having to educate the parents about Islam. It’s not entirely clear what wakes up a person, nor what keeps one myopic about the problem of Islam. Clearly, the deciding factor is not age, nor is it political affiliation (there are liberals who get it, and conservatives who don’t), nor class distinctions (there are Elites who get it and Ordinary Folks who don’t), nor education, nor intelligence; etc.
voegelinian says
With the “tied down” thing, clearly we’re talking about an emergency here, where one’s daughter is going to the airport to be with mujahideen.
gravenimage says
Voegelinian, I believe that these girls were being willully naïve—perhaps fatally so.
But I don’t believe that there is any evidence to suggest that they going to Syria to “to be with mujahideen”—in other words, that they were actually *joining the Jihad*.
We’ve certainly seen many other stories recently of pious Muslimahs going to Syria with the express intention of engaging in “Sex Jihad”—but I don’t believe there is any evidence to suggest that this is what Greta Ramelli and Vanessa Marzulla were doing at all.
Champ says
Yes, you should have tied her down.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What?! …that’s the worst advice you could possibly give. C’mon that’s the sort of thing a *controlling* muslim parent might do.
We teach our children right from wrong, and then they’re repsonsible for the choices THEY make. As hard as that is, our children must be free to choose their own path.
voegelinian says
Someone’s loved one is determined to walk into a building you know is going to explode. You let them go because you don’t want to be “controlling”. Wow.
Champ says
“Wow” back at ‘ya …
That’s a different scenario and you know it.
Myxlplik says
Putting your kid in restraints is just silly, eventually they’ll just get out and go for sure, just to spite you. It actually would increase the odds that they went. I can imagine the desperation of the father second guessing himself, though. Especially after those last 2 morbid and horrific Facebook posts.
Champ says
Putting your kid in restraints is just silly, eventually they’ll just get out and go for sure, just to spite you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Exactly! …I was just about to point this out to Voeg.
voegelinian says
It’s a different scenario in obvious respects; the question is, are they similar enough in other respects. If one doesn’t think that one’s daughter taking a plane to be with mujahideen in a raging horrific terrorism hotspot like Syria isn’t an emergency as bad as a building set to explode, one hasn’t been reading Jihad Watch carefully enough.
awake says
Two more Eloi sacrificed on the altar of diversity, under the banner of liberalism.
Shane Von Russell says
Why does this keep happening? Weren’t two British girls kidnapped the same way not too long ago? Why do they keep sending children to these dangerous places?
SpiritOf1683 says
Lack of awareness, gullibility and intellectual laziness – the fruits of political correctness and moral relativism which gives the false belief that everybody’s the same and want the same things in life. Despite everything we’ve seen over the last 13 years since 9/11, there is still this obstinate refusal to wise up, and we still pretend its a minority of extremists, and if we would only be nice to them then they’ll be nice to us. Its a load of bullcrap but people like to believe it because it gives them that fuzzy feeling of self-righteousness, despite the obvious pitfalls of this fatalistic way of thinking.
Oliver says
I don’t know about two British girls, although a few weeks ago 2 16 year old girms- (appearantly) on their own went to Syria.
But, I think it was about a year ago, two British girls went to ZANZIBAR, not in a war zone, and had acid (or was it lye) thrown in their faces, because they were not wearing the garbage bags and not Muslims.
That should have been a wake up call for idealistic young women. They don’t get ( from what I have read) 72 studs, not even 36.
ben says
Islam real meaning is deception. I pity those who listen to the imams.
Richie says
Leftists can be so naive.
These young women will likely be gang raped and murdered. Its horrible, but a likely scenario if they surround themselves with muslim savages.
And remember, when a Muslim man rapes a woman, Muslims always blame the woman.
Mirren10 says
I’m finding it difficult to summon up much sympathy for these very foolish girls.
Of course they don’t deserve to be murdered and/or raped, but there’s an old saying; fools and knaves get paid out, but fools first.
Certainly they are young, but not *that* young, and apparently have travelled there before.
I hope they are unharmed, and if so, will actually **learn** from their horrible experience.
gravenimage says
Syria: Jihadists kidnap two female Italian aid workers
These girls appear to be surpassingly naive, but the fault does not lie with them: they have almost certainly been taught nothing about Islam except that it is a Religion of Peace…
……………………….
No, indeed—the fault *does not* lie with them, despite what so many posters have asserted.
How can frequent posters here fail to understand that we are *far* more knowledgeable here at Jihad Watch about the the threat of Jihad than are most Westerners? Isn’t such education, in fact, the whole purpose of this site?
Many Westerners, in fact, tend to consider themselves almost invulnerable, for a number of reasons. Firstly, that the civilized West itself is so generally safe that they underestimate what things are like in other parts of the world—especially barbaric Dar-al-islam; then, that Westerners are apt to be respected because the have powerful governments behind them (this may, of course, have been somewhat true at one time, but no longer); and lastly, that since their mission is humanitarian that surely even Jihadists will give them a pass.
Of course, they are wrong on all counts.
More:
The group that has kidnapped Miss Ramelli and Miss Marzullo have not yet been formally identified, but Jordanian newspaper Assabeel was quoted as saying investigators believe they an armed Islamist group which has previously kidnapped Western activists and journalists.
……………………….
Is anyone going to claim that all these journalists were actually Jihadists in disguise as well? Kidnapping Infidels has *always* been considered Islamic—and has been practiced from the earliest days of Islam, by the “Prophet” himself.
More:
On their latest trip they flew to Turkey before sneaking into Syria through Atma – a huge refugee camp on the border between the two countries – according to La Stampa.
……………………….
Atma is a *real* refugee camp—this is not some sort of Jihadist training camp.
For those who seem to believe that only Jihadist sympathizers would enter Syria, here’s work being done by the Christian charity Barnabas Fund:
http://barnabasfund.org/UK/Winter-storm-brings-snow-to-Syria-urgent-need-for-blankets-heaters-coats.html
Remember that many of these refugees—tens of thousands at a bare minimum—are Christians who have been targeted by Jihadists.
More:
Aid worker Giovanni Lo Porto, 38, went missing in Pakistan in 20212, while clerk Gianluca Salviato, 48, and technician Marco Vallisa were kidnapped in Libya in March and July respectively.
……………………….
And there are many more Infidels being held by Jihadists—being held for ransom, being raped. being used for sex slaves, being “married” off to “Mujehideen”, being used as unwilling suicide bombers (this has happened to some of the little girls kidnapped by Boko Haram), or just being held and terrorized and finally murdered.
I hope that Greta Ramelli, 20, and Vanessa Marzullo—like the Italian journalist Daniele Raineri who was kidnapped with them—are able to escape their kidnappers and return home safely.
Champ says
How can frequent posters here fail to understand that we are *far* more knowledgeable here at Jihad Watch about the the threat of Jihad than are most Westerners? Isn’t such education, in fact, the whole purpose of this site?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
True, Gravenimage, but please consider the fact that Mr. Marzullo pleaded with his daughter NOT to go to Syria as he obviously feared for his daughter’s life. So in her case, she DID receive an education–of sorts–by way of a direct warning from her own father. She decided to ignore his warning and accept the risk. That said, these crimes of kidnapping, and whatever else have been done to these young women, are the *sole* responsibility of these evil perpetrators. Charges must be brought against them and THEY need to be held accountable for these crimes, and *not* these two young women. They are not responsible for these crimes against them, but I think that they were foolish to place themselves in harms way and they did this knowingly.
gravenimage says
Champ wrote:
True, Gravenimage, but please consider the fact that Mr. Marzullo pleaded with his daughter NOT to go to Syria as he obviously feared for his daughter’s life. So in her case, she DID receive an education–of sorts–by way of a direct warning from her own father. She decided to ignore his warning and accept the risk.
……………………………………..
Hi Champ.
This is very true. Yet how many kids through the ages have thought that their parents were being overly cautious? It’s so common as to have long since become a truism.
Also, we don’t really know how knowledgeable Mr. Marzullo is about Islam—he may have just more generally have been concerned about his daughter and her friend flying off to a war zone, and not understand the special dangers of Jihad at all.
More:
They are not responsible for these crimes against them, but I think that they were foolish to place themselves in harms way and they did this knowingly.
……………………………………..
I agree that their actions were incredibly, willfully naïve—and that Jihadists will gleefully continue to take advantage of such naïvité on the part of the credulous Kuffar—unless and until we finally wise up.
God knows, it’s *long* past time.
famulus says
gravenimage: Atma is a real refugee camp but these girls were abducted in Alepo, deep into Jihad heartland. What sort of “aid” and to whom could they give? It seems they didn’t lead some humanitarian convoy there.
Jan Fourowls says
@ gravenimage -You’re right, and well said. The pro-rapist commenters on this thread today sounded like Islam’s cruel practice of misogyny would be right for them.
I don’t usually come back to a thread after commenting in the constraints of other activities and I wish I hadn’t come back here today to see the outpouring of hatefulness from some commenters about these young women. The hateful commenters, and they’re obvious, can be assured I’m never coming back to this particular intermittently mean-spirited commenting thread because I don’t wallow in woman-bashing toxicity. Also because I now know the names of Greta Ramelli, Vanessa Marzullo and Daniele Raineri who was kidnapped with them (thanks gravenimage), I can by name pray at least for comfort of the Holy spirit for them and their families and friends. God already knows their names.
This and every rape/sex slavery/ female kidnapping per Islamic protocols is truly sad, and it’s happening all over the world, and anybody who doesn’t get that, I feel sorry for. But I sure as hell don’t want to spend any more time online reading hatred put to print.
gravenimage says
Hi, Jan. I wouldn’t go so far as to characterize these comments as “pro-rapist”—but I do believe that some Anti-Jihadists tend to seriously underestimate the continuing ignorance of so many in the West, and hence chalk up this cluelessness to actual sympathy with the Jihad.
This evil *does* exist in some few cases, where marxists and others actually *do* sympathize with savage Jihadists—but far more common is naîvité about the seriousness of the threat.
And, of course, there are some few who really do apprehend the terrible threat of Jihad, and do what they can to help the victims of it in clear-eyed defiance.
I’m certainly not saying that was the case with these two young women, who probably did seriously underestimate the danger they were in—but it is certainly the case with the Barnabus Fund.
voegelinian says
If even seasoned Jihad Watch readers don’t think flying into mujahideen territory alone is an emergency tantamount to going into a burning building or a building about to explode, then of course more mainstream individuals out there will be even more naive. My commentary is directed at the grievous errors of the former, with a long view to the “battle space in the war of ideas” (Frank Gaffney’s phrase) that is perhaps the most important part of this war for a West still capable eminently of managing this problem, yet (and here’s the point) still handicapping itself in a multitude of ways, chiefly cultural. My initial comment about “Darwinian selection” would be directed at 70 year old grandfatherly libtards who might want to gallivant to a Mohammedan hellhole just as readily as it would be at 20-something girls.
gravenimage says
Voegelinian wrote:
If even seasoned Jihad Watch readers don’t think flying into mujahideen territory alone is an emergency tantamount to going into a burning building or a building about to explode, then of course more mainstream individuals out there will be even more naive.
…………………………………
Of course this is serious, Voegelinian. In fact, the willful naïvité of so many Infidels is a big part of the problem we face—violent, supremacist Islam is only the most obvious part of the problem.
The very same thing was true when the Fascists were rising to power—many in the West failed to see the threat, and many who were at least uneasy failed to understand the *depth* of the threat.
That being said, I would not have sat around and sneered—say—at some naîve visitor to Berlin in the late 1930s who wound up savagely beaten by Nazi thugs on the street—the general moral equivalent of which I think some have done here.
Davegreybeard says
As a wise American once said:
“Life is tough. It’s tougher if you’re stupid.”
Jan Fourowls says
@ gravenimage – I wasn’t planning to come back for this final note, but a woman can fairly change her mind when the Holy Spirit’s nudge is there suggesting it. Thus to honor what will probably turn out to be the memory of these three Muslim-abducted, raped and sexually enslaved women I am setting the record straight that there were in fact unwarranted, vile pro-rapist comments made here today in disrespect of them, their friends and their families, specifically:
“bicky
August 14, 2014 at 2:12 pm
Probably they were excited about becoming sex slaves, that is the only logical explanation.”
“Oliver
August 14, 2014 at 5:45 pm
I agree; we will both probably be blasted”
“Oliver
August 14, 2014 at 5:40 pm
…
I have no sympathy for these two women; probably will be criticized for that.”
“Oliver
August 14, 2014 at 6:20 pm
To Philip J & Jan F.
…
About kidnappings, etc.
…
I am unrepentant.
I have no sympathy for them.”
“Bezelel
August 14, 2014 at 10:26 am
I can’t help feeling the girls were aware of that possibility of being sex slaves. If not they are worse than stupid. They were probably swooning over the Boston bombers as well. Not being a psychiatrist, I can only assume they are insane.”
“Fiqh Al-Matter
August 14, 2014 at 1:44 pm
I know that this makes me a bad person, but I have to admit: I always get a good chuckle when libtards get the business end of Islam for their efforts.”
What is wrong with people commenting on this list that they would go to such a hateful pro-rapist place? (Rhetorical question; I’m not returning.)
Others didn’t show a shred of real compassion for these abducted women, as if to jump on the bandwagon against the rape-targeted women and appease others who comment regularly on JW, e.g., —
“Champ
August 14, 2014 at 11:20 pm
She decided to ignore his [ father’s generic] warning and accept the risk [of rape, sex slavery, abduction, apparently in Champ’s view].”
“Champ
August 14, 2014 at 3:36 pm
Yes! …These two women are without excuse, and I’m finding it difficult to feel sorry for them”
“Champ
August 14, 2014 at 2:50 pm
Good point, Max … these two women are without excuse, imho …”
“Mirren10
August 14, 2014 at 9:10 pm
I’m finding it difficult to summon up much sympathy for these very foolish girls….”
The 100+ plus comments here in significant part to criticize young female victims of Muslim abduction, rape and sex slavery sicken me about the haters who are reading and participating in JW. Bad enough to have to face the cruel evil of Islamic jihad without so many of the commenters jumping on the bandwagon of pro-rapist misogyny. Maybe stop watching so much sex-slave online porn featuring trafficked women and get your souls back, or get a backbone of your own so that you don’t have to “me too” the haters here.
Those who persistently commented as above-indicated are a deal-breaker for me despite other friendliness from the non-hater commenters. The God I follow tells me to shake the dust off my feet and move on without returning here as a commenter. Hope those whose hatred is so great will find repentance and Jesus Christ, because He loves all sinners, and because living in your vitriolic minds must be appalling. Best wishes to all here who have shown that you are lovers of life and truth, and to all of who are decent and caring, a sincere good-bye. But not before this closure —
To the beautiful, kind, open-hearted, compassionate, beloved Greta Ramelli, age 20, Vanessa Marzullo, age 21, and the Italian journalist Daniele Raineri who IS [Islamic State] sadists kidnapped with you — please know that (1) anybody who is a decent human feels compassion with you for your terror, desperation, pain and horror at what you’re being forced to see and do in service to satanic forces of Islamic men, (2) anybody who is a decent human sends strong prayer and/or loving wishes that you escape the evil that is coming to pass in your experience at the hands of cruelly sadistic kidnapping rapists and sex traffickers, and (3) if your escape cannot be, then know the fond and cherishing hopes of any decent human for you to be comforted internally and released from your suffering, and that my fellow authentic Christians (not in name only) hope to later see you in the hereafter as God’s children who are precious in His sight.
Champ says
Jan Fourowls wrote:
Others didn’t show a shred of real compassion for these abducted women, as if to jump on the bandwagon against the rape-targeted women and appease others who comment regularly on JW, e.g., —
“Champ
August 14, 2014 at 11:20 pm
She decided to ignore his [ father’s generic] warning and accept the risk [of rape, sex slavery, abduction, apparently in Champ’s view].”
“Champ
August 14, 2014 at 3:36 pm
Yes! …These two women are without excuse, and I’m finding it difficult to feel sorry for them”
“Champ
August 14, 2014 at 2:50 pm
Good point, Max … these two women are without excuse, imho …”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jan, I must address your unfair characterisation of me. You claim that I “didn’t show a shred of real compassion”, but you’re deliberately omitting comments where I did demonstrate at least a “shred of compassion”, here …
I wrote:
“I hope and pray that these two women are returned home safely.”
Jan, I stated the above comment 3 separate times on this thread–in different comments–so shame on you for your gross mischaracterisation of me, and others, as well.
Also, I did admit that “I’m finding it difficult to feel sorry for them”, which means that I would *like* to feel sorry for them, but I don’t, and I make no apology for simply being honest. Revealing my weakness on this particular matter was NOT an opportunity for you to rub it in my face and judge me.
And you also accused me of this nonsense:
“…as if to jump on the bandwagon against the rape-targeted women and appease others who comment regularly on JW, e.g., —”
How ridiculous. Again, you have made gross mischaracterisations of me and Mirren10; and to paraphrase you, without a “shred of real” evidence.
Get over yourself.
Davegreybeard says
Hi Champ, hope you are doing well my friend.
Seems we are on the same page on this.
Champ says
Hi Davegreybeard! …I’m doing fine thank you. Yes I feel conflicted over this situation, too. I feel tremendous sadness and grief for what these women are suffering–and for what their poor *families* are going through (I couldn’t imagine!) …but they *knew* the risks of what could happen and they did it anyway. Like you I feel anger over their choice. This awful news is just so much to absorb and process …take care, my friend 🙂
Davegreybeard says
Well Jan, seems that this is your segue into that oh so wonderful feeling of self-righteous Christian rage.
I can’t help but think that this has been building for a while. But FINALLY you got the chance to let it all out and tar a whole big bunch of us at here JW as “pro-rapist misogynist haters.” Good for you. Bet you’re feeling pretty smug about it all. And by all means, “shake the foul dust of JW off your feet.”
Personally (not that you would care of course, and I wouldn’t want to get in the way of that righteous anger that you’ve worked yourself into,) I am conflicted about this whole affair. I feel great sadness that two beautiful young girls are to be undoubtedly raped and probably slain. I feel rage at those who will torment these young women. And finally I am angry at the willful stupidity of these girls.
It is that very same willful stupidity, which those of us who are serious about fighting Islam, battle every day in every conversation we have with our willfully ignorant fellow Infidels. That same stupidity that is born of the PC/MC meme that these foolish, foolish girls became intoxicated with. Sure they “meant well” and sure they “had big hearts,” all very, very PC/MC, but when it came time to recognize Islam for the pure evil that it is, they were clueless – as those of us whom you have branded as “haters,” have noted .
But it seems like you are more interested in enjoying your own little “righteous rage” at all the “haters” here than being useful in combating Islam. Fine.
Come back when you come to your senses and get down off that oh so high horse, and maybe we can have a useful conversation.
Champ says
Great response to Jan, Davegreybeard 🙂
And it seems we’ve lost the only “decent” poster on JW, ho-hum …
Champ says
And of course I’m being sarcastic …Jan is not “decent” but a sanctimonious coward. She referred to herself as “decent”, so I was funin’ her on that doozy, lol!
CA girl says
Hi Champ,
Haven’t you identified yourself as a believer? I am not necessarily taking Jan’s side, and I think your defense of yourself through your previous posts was fair. But I must say that these last couple of posts are a real turnoff to me in terms of your nasty, sarcastic attitude. Perhaps you were wounded by her accusations, which is understandable. But I think a defense with facts rather than a distasteful attitude toward another poster (“ho-hum…”) is a better witness.
I have learned a lot from reading the posts but lately I have seen a lot of nastiness and unfair attacks (I’m not including trolls in this description). Methinks it is time to stop reading the posts!
Champ says
Oh brother …
Strange that “CA Girl” considers my lightweight sarcasm more distasteful than bald-faced lies!! …which is exactly what “Jan Fourowls” presented here to several of us. But nary a word from “CA Girl” to “Jan”. Whatever …
Yeah I was sarcastic …so what, and God loves me anyway. Being a Christian does not mean being perfect, doncha know. And I’m careful NOT to lie, which is much more important than sarcastic joking around. So if I’m caught in a lie then of course an apology is forthcoming, but for minor sarcasm? …nah! Sorry, no apology for that one (oops, I apologized). Hey I think a little sarcastic humor is a-ok, so lighten up. “Jan” had it comin’ … 🙂
Peace to you and yours.
Tradewinds says
I totally agree with you, Champ, about Jan Fourowls. Ho-hum!
Champ says
Thank you, Tradewinds! xo 🙂
Reality Check says
Jan Fourowls,
Would you please spare us the never-ending spectacle of your deep spiritual wonderfulness because it’s getting old already? You have done everything to demonize a group of seasoned posters who I do not remember being pro-rapist on any thread – but what really bugs me is your claim that you are doing this on a “nudge” given to you by the Holy Spirit.
Have some realism and humility, woman. If you really think the Holy Spirit directs you with a touch, you are beginning to remind me of Mohammed who thought, or pretended to think, that he was doing everything on command from the Archangel Gabriel – but what makes you even worse is that you quote people selectively because you’ve skipped many parts where they actually expressed sympathy for the girls.
Why? Because the good parts simply don’t fit your agenda. So let’s do a little “edit” here and there even if that changes the truth.
To cut a long story short, I think you are a troll and the cleverest I’ve seen here so far. Your exalted spirit makes you too hard to bear and I really don’t care if you are “Fourowls” or “Four Owls” – you have engaged in too many ad hominem attacks to make me trust you.
Champ says
*Exactly* right, Reality Check! …Bravo!
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And some might be thinking ‘Hey Champ is a Christian, so why isn’t she taking Jan’s side since she’s a Christian, too’ …well, I don’t side with those that LIE. And clearly “Jan” wrote some caustic lies about each of us.
Hopefully, under the prompting of the holy spirit, Jan will return and offer an apology, but I won’t hold my breath …
Oops, I was being sarcastic again ..gosh how unChristian of me, hehe 🙂
Tradewinds says
Agree, Reality Check, Jan is a troll. Never mind the owls – they’re fine.
Bezelel says
Since my name was included in the rant, my response IS, Jan F. You are out of order. If you have a problem with my comments you may ask me what I meant by it. To assume you have some moral highground to the degree that you would lump me into some unsavory category of your choosing without the benefit of the doubt, speaks more about you than it does about me. Just a suggestion, Establish a baseline reference point for sanity and refuse to cross it and don’t expect God to co sign B.S.
Champ says
Bravo, Bezelel! …your comment is spot on!
Tradewinds says
Ditto.
duh_swami says
Champ…Don’t worry, those who knows you, luvs you…
Champ ♥ says
Aww thank you Duh_Swami!! …you’re such a dear friend 🙂
Bezelel says
Thanks Champ, My learning curve is still in progress and the mussies are running wide open. Keep standing your ground too.
duh_swami says
The kidnappers are going by the book. The stupid girls are probably not stupid now. Too bad they had to wise up the hard way…
I have commented before about long winded posts that cover every thought the poster ever had. Boring…Too much religiosity is also boring. If I want a sermon, I will report to church on Sunday.
voegelinian says
“The kidnappers are going by the book. The stupid girls are probably not stupid now.”
You underestimate the resilience of the PC MC disease. See my report of Amanda Lindhout above.
duh_swami says
No thanks…I’m not underestimating anything Islam…
voegelinian says
It wasn’t Islam you were underestimating:
“The stupid girls are probably not stupid now.”
You were seeming to underestimate the resiliency of stupidity among our PC MCs.
voegelinian says
Ah, no; not seeming at all, apparently.
Anne-Marie says
My heart goes out to the parents, who had the foresight to try to dissuade their daughters from going on this foolish mission…However, being the parents of adult children, there is only so much they could do.
Young, idealist and extremely naive, these girls will pay dearly for their mistake (perhaps with their lives). My heart goes out to them too, and I hope they survive this ordeal to tell the world about their experience (and not have their message fall on other deaf, naive, idealistic ears).
Messaggio per i genitori: Faccio una preghiera per le sue figlie. Spero che ritornerano presto…
Oliver says
A BIT OFF TOPIC.
One (or more) earlier posters had mentioned the two Amish girls kidnapped in upstate New York.
A few minutes ago, i saw an item on the net ( did not read the story0 THE GIRLS ARE ALIVE, AND SEEMINGLY WELL.
Sometimes, things do work out well.
sujith says
All said and done they deserve it for being stupid and arrogant enough to disobey warning and pleading from their parents
Tradewinds says
They really are dumb.
Mike Trivisonno says
No one, especially these young women, deserve to be the victims of Jihad.
voegelinian says
Of course not. And no one deserves to have their life, and the lives of their loved ones and fellow citizens, endangered by the ongoing stupidity of PC MC as it continues to be translated into cultural and sociopolitical givens, and thence into public policy.
duh_swami says
I’m certain that by now the young women full appreciate their mistake…
Mike Trivisonno says
After everything that the muslims have done to Italy, one would think they would be more vigilant.
These poor girls are the victims of a seductive and deadly dawa campaign that has formed a lasting and unholy alliance with leftist ideologues who have surreptitiously injected it into institutions of higher learning all over the planet.
The sooner the whole of the non-muslim world comes to terms with the threat posed by Islam, the sooner we can begin to remove it from planet Earth.
Champ says
These poor girls are the victims of a seductive and deadly dawa campaign that has formed a lasting and unholy alliance with leftist ideologues who have surreptitiously injected it into institutions of higher learning all over the planet.
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True, Mike …
But the *school of hard knocks* is where they’ll receive a better education, I think. Sadly, they’ve learned some really tough lessons the hard way.
And I’m still fervertly praying for their safe return home.
Champ says
typo: fervently
Oliver says
SAKVOKT ,, earlier, you psoted-RE: Eisebhower and his warnings about the Military-Industrial Complex.
Ike, also, in the same speech ( when he was leaving the Presidency, I believe), he mentioned the GOVERNMENT-SCIENCE complex, and warned against it.
In it, (paraphrasing-don’t have the speech handy) Ike said that government finding of sccience and scientists would result in the scientists arriving at the conclusion the government wants (see 2010-2014 or thereabouts “global warming, as a current example), BUT the same is true for ALL government funding.
The results ARE WHAT THE GOVERNMENT WANTS THEM TO BE.
Your post is excellent.
Ruslan Tokhchukov says
Insane. And look at the beauty of both those young women. What possessed them to relentlessly travel into a jihad zone? Too bad, neither of them had obviously visited this Jihad Watch site. If they did, they would have acquired life-saving knowledge here.
Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.
Michael says
These girls have good hearts, but, even though they had travelled to Syria before, you would think that they would know how to watch their backs better, or have some kind of handler ( a trusted Syrian) to watch over them. Maybe they did but got ambushed or something. Maybe someone they trusted either sold them out intentionally or was threatened themselves. Damn these kids who just want to do good need to be more careful. I’d be armed like a Mississippi Riverboat Gambler ; like Pancho Villa, with a criss cross ammo belt and grenades hanging off of my coat, dangling like pine cones in the wind. Hopefully they will be ransomed to their families and not to another Islamist group. What a horror for any family.
Champ says
I’d be armed like a Mississippi Riverboat Gambler ; like Pancho Villa, with a criss cross ammo belt and grenades hanging off of my coat, dangling like pine cones in the wind.
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I know that this is a serious subject …
But that’s hilarious–thanks for the laugh!! 😀
voegelinian says
“These girls have good hearts, but, even though they had travelled to Syria before, you would think that they would know how to watch their backs better, or have some kind of handler ( a trusted Syrian) to watch over them. ”
Trusting a Muslim handler in that milieu is the height of naivete. There is simply no way to justify these girls’ reckless desire to go into the heart of darkness to save the Noble Savage.
Reality Check says
What really bugs me is how these two ignored their parents’ desperate pleas not to go. They were really selfish and cared about nothing but their own wishes.
A parent has given his whole life to raising you – show some respect for his endless sacrifices and worries. These two showed nothing. Now their poor parents are going through the darkest hell imaginable, putting hope against hope that they are not raped on a two-minute basis.
dumbledoresarmy says
There are still quite a lot of Christians in Syria – and yes, in Aleppo – besides Muslims.
gravenimage says
True, DDA—that’s why I mentioned the work of the Barnabus Foundation.
dumbledoresarmy says
Perhaps it is time to remember the blessed Saint Josephina Bakhita.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephine_Bakhita
May her prayers in heaven before the Throne of the Almighty be joined with ours, as we cry out for the relief and deliverance and healing of *all* those non-Muslim girls and women who in the past ten years and more, in many, many countries – including Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Pakistan, Nigeria – have been seized, kidnapped, raped, enslaved, grossly abused and often force-“converted” to Islam, by Muslims. Let us pray for rescue, for miraculous escapes, for physical and spiritual healing…and for wisdom for the foolish.
dumbledoresarmy says
Having just read all the way through this wildly-meandering comments thread, here’s some advice for anyone else new to the site and the subject, who may have lobbed in here, or who will lob in here, in future, and may actually have similarly read all the way down through the comments, in bewilderment and dismay.
*Go right back up to the top and reread the posted article, together with Mr Spencer’s brief but pithy framing comment*.
That is a good thing to do, whenever there is a massive flurry of largely offtopic activity in the comments section, and *particularly* whenever mohammedans – such as, in this case, the very obviously tag-teaming posters (or is it poster?) calling themselves, or itself, “mazo” and “semeru” – turn up and get busy.
*Go back up to the top and reread the article*.
Gardener says
These girls almost certainly didn’t know everything normative Islam teaches and that Islamic values are radically different from Christian and Western values. Some things that are considered acceptable and even good in Islam are seen as abhorrent in the civilized world.
Perhaps they thought all religions are the same, or perhaps they rejected some things they heard about Islam because those things seemed so horrible that retreating into denial was a more comfortable solution than calmly and analytically observing and evaluating the evil and its tentacles.
Indeed, it is sad that denial seems to be the favored option at all levels in the civilized world when faced with evil. Instead of endorsing such a childish defense mechanism in both ourselves and others, we should inculcate the young to learn to face even difficult realities with courage, objectivity, and moral integrity. Denial never solves anything. On a societal scale, it makes every problem worse.
The kidnapping of these two girls reminds me of the kidnapping of Amanda Lindhout in Somalia. From what I remember seeing in the media since she was freed, she always talks about the cycle of war and violence. Whether she really understands Islam’s role in both that cycle and what she experienced, I don’t know.