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Jihad Watch

Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Syrian Christian asks, “Why aren’t the moderate Muslims doing more to stop the extremists in their midst?”

Aug 19, 2014 8:09 am By Robert Spencer

SYRIA-CONFLICT“Why aren’t the moderate Muslims doing more to stop the extremists in their midst? Do they agree with their ideology and extremism? We saw hundreds of thousands of protesters on the streets against the abuses of the regime, so why are we not now seeing those thousands of protesters against what IS is doing?”

Fair questions. But no answers will be forthcoming from Muslim leaders in Syria or anywhere else. In the U.S., Hamas-linked CAIR can point to its condemnation of the Islamic State as if that settled the matter — yet neither CAIR nor any other Muslim group is doing anything to teach Muslims to reject the Islamic State’s understanding of Islam.

“Aleppo’s forgotten Christians,” by Edward Dark, Al-Monitor, August 11, 2014 (thanks to Paul):

ALEPPO, Syria — Walking through the largely Christian neighborhoods of Aleppo city — Azizieh, Siryan, Sulaimaniyah and Midan — you can still see the posters of the two bishops kidnapped by Islamist militants last year hanging on shop windows, walls and even cars. The people here haven’t forgotten them; the event is still as painful and fresh as if it had happened just yesterday. The bishops’ kidnapping was a symbolic event, indicative of the larger collapse of interfaith communal relations in a country under the strain of a sectarian civil war, and marked the end of a long era of relative peace and safety for the Christians of Syria.

The streets themselves portray a deceptive and surreal kind of war “normalcy,” the kind where pockmarked buildings, mortar holes on the roads, shredded cars, even bloodstained sidewalks are the usual and expected sights as people go about their daily lives without a second glance. This is life now, this is reality here. What it was like before the war is no longer relevant, the memories of those distant and beautiful bygone days do not matter or factor in any more.

Fear is palpable in this city; it hangs heavy in the air everywhere you go, like a potent and nauseous perfume. You can see it in people’s eyes, in the deep lines on their faces; you can hear it in the way they talk; it’s in their conversations, it’s all they ever talk about.

But fear of a new kind permeates this ancient and deeply rooted community. Genocide and ethnic cleansing are very real threats that haunt the collective conscience of Syria’s Christians. The terrible fate that befell their co-religionists across the border in Mosul has driven these points home in a rather blunt and frightening way. The genocidal, nihilistic death cult of the Islamic State (IS) is hell-bent on destroying everything that is not exactly it, and has been on an unstoppable rampage which has left a trail of decapitated bodies and mass graves in its wake, usually those of ethnic and religious minorities. The militants make no secret of their genocidal campaigns of mass murder and medieval violence; on the contrary, they openly celebrate with glee and revel in them. It is not a means to an end; for them, it is the end itself.

Yousef is a shopkeeper in the predominantly Christian neighborhood of Sulaimaniyah, which has seen almost constant rebel shelling since the civil war divided Aleppo in July 2012. His brother serves in the Syrian army in Damascus. In conversation, he conveyed to me some of the predominant questions and anxieties going through his community.

“Why aren’t the moderate Muslims doing more to stop the extremists in their midst?” he asked bitterly. “Do they agree with their ideology and extremism? We saw hundreds of thousands of protesters on the streets against the abuses of the regime, so why are we not now seeing those thousands of protesters against what IS is doing? Worse, we are now seeing many people and rebel groups joining them. There are so many hundreds of these Islamic rebel groups, but they are all the same, they all have this extremist ideology against us. My conclusion is that these groups and IS are fully supported and backed in what they are doing by the anti-government forces.”

The Christians of Syria had for the most part tried to stay out of the country’s raging civil conflict, but had often found themselves embroiled in its messy and bloody events. On more than one occasion, the Christians became the focal point of action, as in Maaloula, Yabrud and Kassab, as well as high- profile kidnappings of nuns and clerics.

But there are voices starting to question whether they should remain neutral in a conflict which they view as having mutated to blatantly targeting them and threatening their community with annihilation. Many believe that taking up arms, at least for self-defense, is a wise choice, but others feel it would only further enrage and inflame their worst enemies, spurring them into perpetrating even more heinous crimes.

As with many of West Aleppo’s inhabitants, some Christians too have fled the violence that has torn apart their city; many will never return. But unlike the mass exodus of Christians seen elsewhere, Aleppo’s Christians have largely stayed in their city, suggesting that Aleppo’s Christian community remains attached to its ancestral home, and are an integral part of the city’s diverse social, ethnic and cultural mosaic.

But fear of the kind of ethnic cleansing that is being seen in Iraq strikes deep. George, a mechanic who owns a garage in Sulaimaniyah, told me, “The Christians of Aleppo will not stay if the regime loses control of the city. They will be finished here, maybe for good. The takfiri jihadists will make sure of that. Their plan is to clear the nation of all non-Sunni people. They are now using fear tactics and propaganda to intimidate people to leave even before they arrive; it’s that easy. This is why they do all their grisly crimes on camera, to win without firing a bullet. And when they enter new areas, they burn down our churches and confiscate our homes and businesses. They want to erase all traces of us from our own lands. What kind of message are they spreading? Why would you want someone to join your religion by the threat of death?”

George accuses the West of being complicit in the removal of Christians from the Middle East. “Why didn’t the United States take military action when the ISIS persecuted Christians in Raqqa and Mosul? Why only now when it is Yazidis being targeted? There is a plot to remove all Christians from the Middle East, it is crazy, the West has the same plan as the terrorists for us! It is clear, look, now France is taking in all Christian refugees from Iraq, but in Mali it sent in its army to defeat the terrorists. Are they only terrorists in Iraq and Mali, but revolutionaries in Syria?”

Many of the points Yousef and George raised were being echoed across the Christian community in Aleppo, indicating their shared predicament and anxieties no matter what their political affiliations. Not all Christians in Aleppo support the regime; in fact, a large number of them do not, but equally significant is that you won’t find any that support the rebels, either.

The recent repeated rebel shelling of the Syriac Catholic Church, a large and iconic building in the heart of the old Christian community at Azizeh, is seen by many as a clear message by the rebels, revealing their true intent toward their community.

“There is no more need for the pretense of liberation and freedom.” Yousef said, “They [rebels] have successfully sold that to the outside world while they pursue their real agendas inside Syria in broad daylight.”

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Filed Under: Islamic State (aka ISIS, ISIL, Daesh), Muslim persecution of Christians, Syria Tagged With: featured


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Comments

  1. Janell says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 8:25 am

    Why? Because the moderates are really no different than the extremists. Only difference is that the moderates are almost always silent

    • Alissa says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 12:59 pm

      You’re right Janell.

      Moderate Muslims read the same Qu’ran as the extremists….the same principles, the same beliefs, worshipping the same pedophile, murderous, hate-filled demon as the extremists…just less energy applied to their efforts toward hatred of non-mulims and world domination.

      Why don’t they say anything? Because they couldn’t care less about Christians and have only contempt for them and anyone else that isn’t a muslim.

      • Charli Main says

        Aug 19, 2014 at 1:26 pm

        The myth of the ” moderate” ” peaceful” “tolerant” Muslim lives on in the minds of the PC MC brigade only.
        That’s why you never see any of these Kumbya Muslims on the streets of Europe and elsewhere, expressing their outrage at the shame brought on Islam and them, by all those jihadists that have misunderstood the religion of peace.
        When and only when, I see Muslims out on the streets, waving flags and banners condemning the activities of their Jihadist Muslim brothers, will I start to accept the ” moderate” Muslim exists.

        • voegelinian says

          Aug 19, 2014 at 2:12 pm

          The myth of the ” moderate” ” peaceful” “tolerant” Muslim lives on in the minds of the PC MC brigade only.

          I wish that were so; but it lives on — in part, and under other forms — even in the Counter-Jihad. It’s just been repackaged and relabeled. A rose by any other name… still stinks to high heaven.

          See my essay, The Mutation of the “Moderate Muslim”
          .

        • lebel says

          Aug 19, 2014 at 4:24 pm

          any such activity would be quickly labelled taqqiya

      • lebel says

        Aug 19, 2014 at 4:26 pm

        So Kurds (Sunni Muslims) are playing a huge game of Taqqiya then?

        • SpiritOf1683 says

          Aug 19, 2014 at 6:39 pm

          There’s a simple explanation for that – FEAR.

      • BC says

        Aug 20, 2014 at 9:21 am

        I think they lack the courage of their convictions. If they are moderate ‘true’ believers that is. To speak out would be seen as unIslamic and they fear their neighbours’ anger. They care more about what their fellow Muslims think than the rest of the world, who are just infidels anyway
        The few that have spoken out deserve respect for their courage.

    • David Barrett says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 4:16 pm

      Put a gun in the hands of a moderate and he becomes an extremist . Obviously not enough guns to go round. Muslims do not have a philosophy of living – only of death.

    • Christian Knight says

      Aug 20, 2014 at 1:59 pm

      Moderate Muslims are the ones who hold the body down while the Jihadist severs the head…

  2. John C. Barile says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 8:41 am

    The plight of Aleppo’s Christians belies the sham of Obama’s and Western elites’ Syrian policy.

    • bernie says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 8:45 am

      The U.S. and the other Western powers should show some generosity, and take in large numbers of Christian and Yazidi refugees from Syria and Iraq.

      • John C. Barile says

        Aug 19, 2014 at 8:55 am

        I’m fairly convinced that Mr. Obama doesn’t give a rat’s ass about Christians anywhere.

      • the vilest of creatures says

        Aug 19, 2014 at 9:30 am

        How bout instead the muslims stop killing them simply because a 7th century pedophile said to?

  3. Jay Boo says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 9:04 am

    Off Topic
    Obama — CAIR — on Trentovision video

  4. Jaladhi says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 9:04 am

    I am just wondering how and why these Christians think that there are moderate Muslims in their country or anywhere else??

    One should know there are no moderate Muslims. Maany Muslims wear this fake facade but in their heart they are all radical as their openly declared radical and terrorist Muslim brethren!!

    • voegelinian says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm

      Dhimmitude is a hard habit to shake; even some Christian victims of hot Islamic oppression in the dar-al-Islam (that mythical land that some Jihad Watchers think doesn’t exist) persist in some dhimmi reflexes, which includes the notion that not all Muslims are their perennial and pernicious enemy.

  5. duh_swami says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 9:17 am

    There is no such thing as a ‘moderate’ Mahoundian…One simple reason…No Mahoundian wants to explain their ‘moderation’ to Allah at the Gate to Paradise…
    A ‘moderate’ if they exist ‘slander’ Islam by their moderation.
    According to Allah’s book, he hates that sort of thing.

  6. Jay Boo says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 9:31 am

    Interfaith Dialog

    Maybe a Muslim led Interfaith Dialog will solve this issue?
    Tom Trento introduces the following video clip
    of an Interfaith Dialog gone wild.

  7. Jay Boo says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 9:43 am

    The sixth pillar of Islam (Kill somebody)
    Kill non-Muslims
    Kill Muslims
    Kill Sheep in ritual fashion
    Kill something anything at all

    When there is nothing left to kill Islam dies
    Islam cannot live without killing
    Islam is emptiness

  8. vlparker says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 10:45 am

    Just because they are not engaging in terrorist activities themselves doesn’t make them moderate. If they know anything at all about their religion they know that all of the violence is sanctioned by allah and is exactly what mohammad did when he was alive.

  9. http://islamforbids.com says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 10:49 am

    Moderate muslims do not own Islam, they are unwilling to pay the price for it .

  10. Wetwork56 says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 10:54 am

    AN APOLOGY,

    Yousef, George, Fellow Christians, I send to you my most heartfelt apology.My country-the once mighty United States of America-is a husk of what it used to be. We no longer proudly stand erect before the leaders of the world, instead our leader(?) bows. We no longer remind the world of our past great deeds, instead, we stand before those leaders and point at our shameless mistakes. We no longer look upon the world and proclaim “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.” Instead we look the other way while the jihadi’s/criminals, rich cartels, and those wanting to live off of the teat of social programs to enter in vast numbers. We no longer stand for whats right and whats wrong. Instead, our deceiver-in chief blames law enforcement for protecting themselves against the very element they seek-criminals.

    So, Yousef, George, Fellow Christians, I apologize that there will be no definitive action forthcoming on your behalf/plight until we ourselves find someone worthy to pilot this rudderless ship.

    • duh_swami says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 11:23 am

      Apologize? I didn’t authorize you to apologize for me did I?
      Or maybe I did but I was probably drunk.

    • boakai ngombu says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 11:36 am

      can’t agree

      it seems that only the left and right coasts might agree to the suggested “empty husk” image, but they ain’t all America and are hardly among the strongly religious and the stalwart.

      there are millions about who don’t agree with the Marxist progressive bent buffeting this country who remain aware of Constitutional rights and who are concerned that justice prevails, even though lawlessness only seems the vogue.

      be glad that the Allah god of Islam (unknowable; the best of all deceivers) is being strongly questioned as to its quality of righteousness and compassion.

      be glad that the theoretical Muhammad (lately contrived; full of lusts) is not mentor of most of the youth in this land.

      we do stand for “whats right and whats wrong” and do not follow SHARIA (a tool for enslavement of all because the Allah god of islam wants all to be slaves).

      though we are presently ruled by an supremacist POTUS, he won’t be for long…

      • boakai ngombu says

        Aug 19, 2014 at 11:39 am

        should be: for lawlessness only seems the vogue.

      • Wetwork56 says

        Aug 19, 2014 at 12:52 pm

        though we are presently ruled by an supremacist POTUS, he won’t be for long…

        According to my watch that does not occur for another 29 months + 1 day. An eternity in these tumultuous times. It only takes a millisecond for an unspeakable event to happen in this world, and were it to happen here I have ZERO confidence in this administration to properly deal with it. POTUS already looks as though he can’t reach that exit door soon enough, and when it finally arrives—Then What? Rely on the to media to cover each candidate fairly/honestly? Academia to ACTUALLY TEACH the young minds in their classrooms without their own political poison? Or of those young minds to even break free from their social media outlets long enough to form their OWN opinion of the candidates and then VOTE?

        I still fight for my beliefs, for whats right and wrong, and voice MY OPINION to others. If they don’t agree they are welcome to criticize, NOT slander-name call or threaten. (not that you have boakai ngombu-Just making a point)

        My point being…..The Old Grey Mare just aint what she used to be

      • Sam says

        Aug 26, 2014 at 4:23 pm

        Allah is a pre-Islamic name coming from the compound Arabic word Al-ilah which means “the deity.” Their are Arabic-speaking Christians who worship Jesus that call God Allah .

  11. DJM says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 11:05 am

    Mohammed did say, “Silence is consent.”

  12. Beagle says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 11:07 am

    I live around a lot of Muslims. Expecting ‘moderate’ Muslims to have any control over the religion is a pipe dream. What we mean by moderate is unobservant, often avoids the mosque as much as possible. The power base in Islam is the ulama. It’s a top —> down hierarchy. When the imam says “jump” they are supposed to say “how high?”. Halal, haram, not “Gee, maybe we should reconsider this whole struggling in Allah’s cause against unbelievers thing and….”

    It’s Ask the Imam, not ask everyone what they think we ought to do.

    • voegelinian says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 2:21 pm

      Aha, this is pretty much what I was referring to.

  13. duh_swami says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 11:29 am

    A jinn I am in astral contact with told me that Allah keeps a pot of boiling water and some molten lead on hand just in case a ‘moderate’ shows up…I have no reason to doubt the jinn…

  14. mariam rove says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 11:45 am

    There are moderate muslims. That said the day they come out and support the right on the minorities that is the day you play the lotto. M

  15. salamander says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 11:48 am

    Just saw on the news that the Pope said he was willing to go to Iraq , yippee a Pope jihaad, how long before Baghadi offers 150 virgins to anyone blowing up the pope mobile. On a more serious note he says something needs done, not bombing though, maybe a nice cup of coffee with Islamic State leaders and a chat.

  16. Rezali Mehil says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 11:55 am

    Sitting Christian…“Why aren’t the moderate Muslims doing more to stop the extremists in their midst?”

    I feel that the Islamic community is still recovering from the traumatic era when Muslim governments and empires were overthrown and Muslim peoples forcibly subjected to alien… Infidel rule.

    It is to be noted that Islam is not conceived as a religion in your limited Western sense but as a community at the following levels…. family, extended family, clan, tribe, country, duniya …purity is based on blood purity based on the levels above….a loyalty, and a way of life..and whatever the loathing moderates feel ….they will remain loyal to Islam over the feelings of the Christians/Kuffar.

    If they are flexing their muscles now …then the moderates have not seen this in 50 years….always remember …..

    that in a Muslim country…. It is right and proper that power should be wielded by Muslims and Muslims alone. Others may receive the tolerance, benevolence of the Muslim state, …provided that they recognize Muslim supremacy.

    Muslims should rule over non-Muslims is right and normal….and the opposite is true as well…

    That non-Muslims rule over Muslims is an offense against the laws of God and nature, and this is true whether in Syria, Iraq, Kashmir Indonesia …i.e. globally ..

    Please get this message of explaination to the sitting Christian….

    More Later….

    Rezali

    • Beagle says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 12:03 pm

      “I feel that the Islamic community is still recovering from the traumatic era when Muslim governments and empires were overthrown and Muslim peoples forcibly subjected to alien… Infidel rule.”
      — — —

      Of course you do. Blaming Islam’s problems on anything but Islam is the natural order of things in your world. Ihsh’allah some day that will help solve an actual problem. But probably not.

      “That non-Muslims rule over Muslims is an offense against the laws of God and nature, and this is true whether in Syria, Iraq, Kashmir Indonesia …i.e. globally ..”
      — —- —-

      That’s what they believe, folks. Global rule or bust. Thanks for your honesty.

    • raylanfear says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 12:25 pm

      Sad but true your comments. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/08/18/pope-oks-protecting-iraq-minorities-wants-un-ok/14241193/

    • CogitoErgoSum says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 12:36 pm

      Rezali, sometimes what you say makes me laugh. But I cannot begin to express how angry I am right now reading your remarks that, “Muslims should rule over non-Muslims.” I will NEVER submit to becoming a Muslim and I will NEVER submit to being ruled by Muslims. I would rather die fighting you Muslims with my bare hands to my last drop of blood. Islam is the religion STRAIGHT FROM HELL and we non-Muslims had better make sure it is sent back to HELL before it turns the Earth into a living HELL. May God give me strength.

      • Ted says

        Aug 19, 2014 at 2:32 pm

        Five and a half billion right behind you, buddy!

        • paddy says

          Aug 20, 2014 at 8:56 am

          I was going to say something really smart and contrary to Rizla’s comments but fuck it….just go and treat yourself to and nice, big juicy HAMburger or BACON roll.

          Actually, I just noticed from the time/date of your comments that you are based in the USA. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Living in a country so utterly at the opposite end of the spectrum to your medieval world view.

          I’m soooo happy for you.

    • GP says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 12:49 pm

      You would love to see America and the West turned into another one of your wretched hives. Just remember buddy, the American Bible belt will always be Israel’s safety belt. Inshallah

    • Raymond Hietapakka says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 1:10 pm

      iSlam, death cult of the perpetually butt-hurt.

    • SpiritOf1683 says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 1:31 pm

      We will never be run by troglodytes like you. Your death cult contributes nothing but death, destruction, headchoppings and barbarity. We have to spend vast amounts of money stopping wannabe murderers – money which could otherwise have been spent on something far better if your death cult wasn’t around. You’re a drain on humanity and Muslim nations are nothing but stinking open sewers run by barbaric cretins and bigoted mullahs and ayatollahs spewing puerile filth.

    • boakai ngombu says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 2:31 pm

      my, oh my. you’re still a deadman, Rezali, your conscience is still misinformed …

      the sitting Christian is known by the God of gods and Lord of lords, while you still hope to get close to the Allah god of Islam (unknowable; the best of all deceivers).

      and you propose, as have your forefathers, that the close, tight, community system derived from the Koran put in form by SHARIA, is actually the best alternative to fruitful living. this, while your brothers (and now your sisters) bring jihad, supposedly because y’all think the system somehow is, like, holy and pure.

      enslaved you are and if I were to make imprecations before the Almighty God and Lord, they would be that you become confused and insecure in all that you think and say and do and seek His guidance.

      baring that, I will keep my cutlass sharpened and nearby

      • Ted says

        Aug 19, 2014 at 2:35 pm

        Well said, boakai!!!

    • JIMJFOX says

      Aug 20, 2014 at 4:14 am

      Hi Rezali

      “It is right and proper that power should be wielded in utterly destroying the Islamic world”- in a civilised manner, of course. Your crowd of bearded savages is going the right way to fulfilling this prophesy and I would shed not a single tear.

      Your thoughts?
      More later…

  17. Ray Lanfear says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 12:23 pm

    ISIS must be stopped at all costs by the World. They want an Islamic Globe, and will kill anyone that gets in their way. It is the issue of the 21st Century for all nations. Stop them now or stop them later, your choice. In America we have over 2500 Mosques, with 2500 Inman preaching, where is the condemnation by them and what are they teaching at the Mosques, hate and violence toward America? Their silence speaks volumes. How many more Anwar Awlaki should we allow? http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/08/18/pope-oks-protecting-iraq-minorities-wants-un-ok/14241193/

  18. GP says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 12:41 pm

    Moderate Muslims, that’s an oxymoron like jumbo shrimp. But unlike jumbo shrimp they have never been seen, or heard from for that matter.

  19. Ted says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 12:45 pm

    It now looks like “moderate” Muslims seem to be the sleepers inside every Western country, that at some point they will be activated by their communal mosques.
    All Muslims are a danger to everyone. That means they all must be exterminated to preserve peace for others.
    Why have a sect of human beings on a planet that just wants to kill everyone, kill technological advances, kill culture, kill music, kill literature, kill cinema, kill history, kill identity, kill happiness and kill fun?
    They are like an Alien invasion that has discovered a wonderful planet called Earth, hate the way we live and laugh, and just want to destroy it because they prefer hate and violence.
    What an awful people. What a disgusting political ideology. There has been no religion in the history of mankind that has been so horrifyingly divisive!
    What is more shameful is for a sect of people to behave in this way in the 21st Century. I mean, the 21st Century! Come on!!
    Every other human has evolved in the last 1400 years!
    I could write more but why should I waste my time on these Dark Age animals.

    • voegelinian says

      Aug 19, 2014 at 2:35 pm

      All Muslims are a danger to everyone. That means they all must be exterminated to preserve peace for others.

      Where’s that game show buzzer that indicates to Don Pardo that the contestant is wrong and loses his chance to win when you need it…? Yes, all Muslims are a danger (not to “everyone”, but to enough of the world to make it a global problem) — but that doesn’t mean we have to pass Go and go straight to Genocide. Those who advocate this, like this nonce-commenter never before seen, “Ted”, who pops up suddenly to drop this G-bomb here, are either unhinged Breivikian extremists or are cleverly trying to handicap the growing anti-Islam movement from being able to grow the idea to take less extreme measures — such as total deportation. (Unfortunately, the retardation of such an idea comes from other quarters as well, many still within the Counter-Jihad itself, where residues of PC MC continue to persist in the hearts and minds of some in the form of their ethical narcissism ).

      • Ted says

        Aug 19, 2014 at 2:42 pm

        Yes voegelinian, I was a bit harsh. I will agree with your total deportation instead. I was stooping down to their level and I apologise.

      • CogitoErgoSum says

        Aug 19, 2014 at 4:20 pm

        Voeg, I agree with you that killing someone because of his religion is not something we should do. But how about killing the religion itself? I know, in the U.S. freedom of religion is a basic right but we also believe in equality. All men are to be treated equally under the law and, I think, that same right should extend to all religions also. BUT if a man thinks he is better than all others and is NOT equal but BETTER than all others and acts in such a way I think that man should be held in contempt of the laws of the U.S. Likewise, I think that the same should hold true for any religion which holds itself above all others and teaches its adherents to do actual physical harm to others and to humiliate or kill others and to do all that is possible to destroy all other religions. Any religion like that (and Islam is) should not be recognized as a religion and should not be afforded any of the rights afforded to other religions under the U.S. Constitution. That religion should be held in contempt and all efforts should be made to keep that religion outside the borders of the United States.

        Now, how does one kill a religion? How does Islam teach that such a thing should be done? I repeat in saying I won’t go so far as advocating we kill all the Muslims but I would say that the building of mosques should be prohibited, existing mosques should not be allowed to be repaired and special taxes should be imposed on the religion and its followers. I am not in favor of deportation of anyone because that would be transferring the problem from one place to another and would not be as effective in killing off the religion. The vile religion would just grow stronger elsewhere and become a worse problem to bedevil us again. No, I say kill the religion ….. and by doing it in a way that uses some of its own teachings against itself. That, I think, would be poetic justice.

        • voegelinian says

          Aug 19, 2014 at 7:04 pm

          Taking measures as you suggest while the West has millions of Muslims inside it, will only aggravate the situation. Forcing Muslims inside the West to repudiate their religion is in their minds the same as declaring war on them. Anyway, as the intelligent JWer “Nobody” (also aka “Proud Infidel” I believe) pointed out many moons ago (boy, do I miss him in this arid place), the problem is Muslims, not the abstraction Islam. An abstraction doesn’t behead little girls; a book doesn’t behead little girls — Muslims putting that abstraction and book into practice do that. Why is that so freaking difficult for the JWers to get through their dense skulls?

        • CogitoErgoSum says

          Aug 19, 2014 at 8:08 pm

          Voeg, I’m not saying Muslims should be forced to repudiate their religion. I’m saying they should be forced to live under some of the same rules they would impose on Christians, Jews and other “people of the Book.” The taxes on their mosques and their incomes should be made high enough as to make it so difficult for them that they would prefer either to leave the country or to change their religion. It has worked to great effect in places like Turkey, Afghanistan, and the Middle East in nearly eliminating Christianity. No, an abstraction does not behead little girls but it is a motivating force for doing so. And, yes, I’m sure Muslims won’t like paying extra taxes and living with restrictions on their religion …. but they support doing the same (and worse) to other religions. If they respond violently, let it be so. I think violence is going to come from them sooner or later no matter what.

          Anyway, I’m here to learn and maybe contribute a little of my own in the struggle. I agree with some of what you say but not all … and I’m sure you can say the same back to me. At any rate, I hope we can all keep plugging away at finding the best response to this great threat to our freedom … and do it with a dignified and respectful discourse. I wish you well.

        • voegelinian says

          Aug 20, 2014 at 12:20 pm

          Voeg, I’m not saying Muslims should be forced to repudiate their religion. I’m saying they should be forced to live under some of the same rules they would impose on Christians, Jews and other “people of the Book.” The taxes on their mosques and their incomes should be made high enough as to make it so difficult for them that they would prefer either to leave the country or to change their religion. It has worked to great effect in places like Turkey, Afghanistan, and the Middle East in nearly eliminating Christianity.

          High taxes isn’t going to move a demographic waging war on us by violence and by stealth. Christians aren’t waging war on anyone; being mostly peaceable people, they have fled when given the bum’s rush (and those Muslim regions you cite didn’t merely stiffen taxes, they also have been horribly persecuting Christians). Why are you not factoring in such basics?

          `

        • CogitoErgoSum says

          Aug 20, 2014 at 1:02 pm

          Voeg, I did consider the more violent aspects of Islam and you are right, high taxes alone did not lead to the reduction of Christians and Jews in now almost 100% Islamic countries. And yes, re-reading my comments I do see that if Muslims were forced to leave a country by high taxes it would be somewhat similar to deportation. But, just as I cannot condone the killing of someone simply for being a Muslim, I don’t support deportation because it just seems too tyrannical. Besides, don’t you think Muslims would turn violent when the troops came knocking on the door to round them up and take them away? I think it’s better to let them make up their own minds to leave and to have them pay for their own ticket to somewhere else.

          In addition, before any laws such as I am suggesting could be passed I would think that a lengthy debate would take place in Congress. Much information would be brought to the public’s attention about Islam ….. information which most American’s are woefully ignorant today. Even if laws regulating and taxing hateful religions such as Islam were not passed, a purpose would have been served.

          Thanks for getting me to think more. I’m glad to hear your ideas. I hope we can keep it up and I invite others to chime in with their ideas as well. Take care.

      • JIMJFOX says

        Aug 20, 2014 at 4:20 am

        I too go ‘over the top’ merely to challenge and infuriate those who desire our destruction. How else to communicate in language they understand?

        Who can say what might be required to ensure our survival? Who would have forecast Hiroshima? Or the effect it had on the Japanese militaristic mentality or their Emperor/ God on Earth; recall too their soldiers were enthusiastic beheaders and rapists (Nanking).

  20. Raymond Hietapakka says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 1:08 pm

    The only time an iSlam muzzle’em is “moderate” is when they are dead.

    • paddy says

      Aug 20, 2014 at 9:15 am

      How about mu-SLIME?

  21. Michael Copeland says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 2:38 pm

    “Extremism” is defined in the UK’s “Prevent” strategy (a free download). It neatly fits Islam itself, like a glove. See “Extremism:”There Is a Problem Within Islam””.
    http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/index.php/home/root/news-libertygb/6183-extremism-there-is-a-problem-within-islam
    “Violence is the heart of Islam”, explains Ayatollah Yazdi, advisor to Ahmedinejad. Thus Islam qualifies as “violent extremism”. Islamic State’s actions are Islam-compliant: they do what Mohammed did – all model Islam. The Vatican and men and women of good will “unambiguously denounce and condemn these practices unworthy of man”.
    See “The Vatican is Blind to the Fundamental Barbarism of Islam”
    http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/index.php/home/root/news-libertygb/6538-vatican-blind-to-islamic-reality

  22. Champ ✿ says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 3:02 pm

    “moderates” are a myth, dontca know …

  23. Appalled By The World says

    Aug 19, 2014 at 6:03 pm

    The $64 question that always goes unanswered by the “peaceful ones”.

  24. Virginia says

    Aug 20, 2014 at 2:48 am

    Don’t blame moderate Muslims until we rid ourselves of our own islamist so-called president and his crew. Remove the moat in our eye first! We aren’t enforcing our own laws and here is the result.

  25. paddy says

    Aug 20, 2014 at 5:14 am

    I would hazard a guess at the ‘moderate’ muslims being indifferent to or tacitly supporting the rise of the IS. Those muslims who do not support this type of totalitarianism (until very recently, the majority of muslims had always lived under an autocratic regime, be it theocratic or military in nature) are simply to afraid to speak out because they know how savage and psychotic followers of islam can be.
    You could describe what’s happening in the IS controlled areas as something akin to Nazism.

  26. Tommo says

    Aug 20, 2014 at 5:54 am

    Moderate Muslims are frightened to speak out and know that their families will come under threat by more radical Muslims if they do so. Dr Taj Hargey Inmam of the Oxford Islamic Congregation has recently spoken on the subject in an article to the Daily Mail condemning ‘maniacs killing in the name of Islam’ and this ‘lusting for blood’ which is not supported by many Muslims. But we are left with the question – where are the co-ordinated protests by Muslims against Islamic thuggery?

  27. RICHTHOFEN says

    Aug 20, 2014 at 12:42 pm

    There is no such thing as a ‘moderate’ muslim – islam does not allow that – it is haram, it is the same as being an apostate. What islam does decree in its evil mantra is that muslims may lie in the cause of promoting islam. What you are hearing from those claiming to be ‘moderate’ is lies – plain, simple lies – to fool the kuffars(us) – don’t waste your breath trying to talk to them – they hate you and will destroy you at the first opportunity – proscribe islam before it destroys the civilised world – it’s coming to a town near you unless decisive action is taken

    • richado says

      Aug 20, 2014 at 5:03 pm

      Prime Minister Erdogan stated not too long ago that there is no such thing as moderate Islam. Also the same from Indonesian and Malaysian politicians.

      http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2004/06/erdo287an-turkey-is-not-a-country-where

      http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.ca/2007/09/there-is-no-moderate-islam.html

  28. Richard Raymond says

    Aug 20, 2014 at 2:06 pm

    Why aren’t moderate jews reining in radical zionists, particularly in Israel?

    • Charles Johnson says

      Aug 20, 2014 at 5:17 pm

      Are radical zionists beheading those who don’t believe? Are they raping and killing defensless women and children? Are they taking people into slavery? Are they trying to establish a one religion Caliphate? Answer these questions and you will have your answer.

  29. porkeater says

    Aug 21, 2014 at 1:08 am

    A moderate muslim is one who has run out of amo.

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