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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Catholic priest insists: Qur’an doesn’t justify beheadings

Sep 5, 2014 9:28 pm By Robert Spencer

longenecker1On Wednesday I wrote a response to a piece in Aleteia, “Does the Quran Command Beheading?,” by Fr Dwight Longenecker. Now Fr. Longenecker has doubled down: “Does the Quran Justify Beheadings?,” by Fr Dwight Longenecker, Aleteia, September 5, 2014. My comments are interspersed below.

The famed expert in Islam, Robert Spencer, has taken me and Aleteia to task in this column asking for an apology for an “extraordinarily misleading article.” I’m afraid I cannot offer Mr. Spencer an apology, but I can offer an apologia: that is a defense and an explanation.

I didn’t say he owed me an apology. I said: “For this extraordinarily misleading peace, Fr. Dwight Longenecker and Aleteia owe their readers a retraction and apology.” I said that because his piece contained basic inaccuracies liable to mislead people into complacency. I stand by that assessment.

I suspect he and many readers believe me to be too soft on Islam. They only need to connect to my blog here and read my recent posts on ISIS and the Islamic sex abuse scandals in Britain to see that I am not soft on the horrors of Islamic violence. Those who have a taste for denunciations and imprecations against Islam will be satisfied if they read those posts.

This is a condescending and inaccurate characterization. The point is not to hurl “denunciations and imprecations against Islam,” but to identify the source of the threat properly, so that we can take effective steps against it. If jihadis have a convincing case when they invoke the Qur’an and Sunnah to justify beheadings and other violence against unbelievers, non-Muslims need to know that, as it can help provide a sense of what might expected from Muslim groups in the West in fighting against this — which is exactly what Fr. Longenecker calls for. If the Islamic State has a case that is Qur’anically justifiable, we might not see many Muslims in the West join in the fight against it, despite their pro-forma condemnations — as in this piece, where Hamas-linked CAIR’s Nihad Awad denounces the Islamic State while calling not for the West to fight against it, but to join the jihad against Assad that the Islamic State is waging.

And that’s just one reason why it matters whether or not the Islamic State’s violence can be justified from the Qur’an. Another reason involves the stance that Western authorities should take regarding Muslim organizations in their countries. Should they call on them to take aggressive action and teach against the understanding of Islam that the Islamic State represents, or is that not necessary, because Muslims in the West already largely know that the Islamic State is wrong on Islamic grounds?

There are other reasons why this matters as well. But Fr. Longenecker reduces all this to having a “taste for denunciations and imprecations against Islam” — a peculiar and unfortunate echo of the Leftist/Islamic supremacist smear that opposition to Islamic jihad violence and supremacism is just “hatred” and “bigotry.” Unfortunately, this idea is all too current in today’s Roman Catholic Church (and the Catholic Church in general) — that it is wrong and uncharitable to call attention to jihad terror and Islamic supremacism. As even as violent jihadist persecution of Christians escalates worldwide, the enforced silence on this is the real lack of charity.

The question remains, however, whether the Quran commands beheadings. There is no question that Saudi Arabia uses beheading as a means of capital punishment. Neither can it be denied, as Mr. Spencer and others have pointed out, that the prophet Muhammad himself beheaded hundreds. I acknowledged this fact in a recent blog post. Mr. Spencer points out, “There are just two problems with this: the Quran and Islamic law. Fr. Longenecker does not mention, and probably doesn’t know, what is actually the primary Quran verse that Islamic jihadists and supremacists use to justify beheading: “When you meet the unbelievers, strike the necks…” — Quran 47:4.

However, this is precisely what I did acknowledge, that the Islamic jihadists use the Quran to justify their barbarism. So my article states, “The prophet in Quran 8:12 did mean for his soldiers to use the sword literally and without mercy, and the Islamic warriors of ISIS behead those they consider infidels out of direct obedience to Quran 8:12…obedience to the Quran is the reason given by the terrorists, and the terror instilled in others by beheading.”

Fr. Longenecker here misses my point. His earlier piece was entitled, “Does the Quran Command Beheading?.” In it, he examined Qur’an 8:12, determined (correctly) that it doesn’t command beheading, and thus concludes that the Qur’an doesn’t command beheading. But in that piece, he doesn’t even mention 47:4, which does command beheading, not according to me, but to classic and mainstream Qur’anic commentators, two of whom I quoted in my earlier piece. That was why I said his piece was extraordinarily misleading: it claimed that the Qur’an didn’t command beheading while not even mentioning the verse that jihadists actually use to justify beheading. That’s misleading.

I therefore agree with Mr. Spencer that both the Quran and Islamic law commend beheading. I also agree that those who favor beheading use their sacred texts to justify their cruel and barbaric acts. The minor difference between us (indeed it is the difference of only one letter) is that while I think the Quran commends beheading I do not think it commands beheading— and “commands,” after all, was the word used in my title.

I am not sure this is a distinction with a difference, but since it was reached without consideration of the Qur’an verse that says, “When you meet the unbelievers, strike the necks…” (47:4), it is dubious anyway.

Does the Quran, the biography of Mohammed and Sharia law condone beheading? Does it justify this abominably cruel practice? I fear so, and I think this is why the jihadists and other Islamic extremists behead people. This article explains my views on this matter further. Do I think the Quran commands people to behead infidels, however? Is it a watertight divine command that all Muslims must cut off a head if they are to be good Muslims?

That’s not necessarily what it means to “command beheading.” If the Qur’an commands Muslims to strike the necks of the unbelievers when they meet them in battle, which is the import of 47:4 according to the vast majority of Qur’anic commentators, what of the Muslims who never meet unbelievers in battle? Neither I nor anyone else has ever said that every last Muslim has a divine command to go find some non-Muslim to behead. That would be absurd. The command to behead is in the context of hot warfare against unbelievers, in which innumerable Muslims will never be engaged. The Qur’an does say, “Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah’s way are of much greater worth in Allah’s sight” (9:20). The word here rendered as “striven” is jahadu (جَاهَدُواْ), a verbal form of “jihad,” struggle or strive. Thus it is saying that those who fight are better than those who don’t. But never in the Qur’an or anywhere else in Islamic theology or law is there a command that one must behead someone as some sort of lifetime requirement, like the pilgrimage to Mecca. In introducing and discussing this, Fr. Longenecker is bringing in a straw man.

I will go back to my original argument. I Samuel 15:3 could be interpreted by a Christian madman as a divine mandate for genocide. Likewise Psalm 137:9, “Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks,” might be interpreted by a crazed Christian to justify wanton infanticide. Indeed, wild fanatics might even carry out genocide and infanticide using those verses. They would be wrong. Very wrong, and the majority of Christians of all traditions would protest their actions.

Indeed. But there are no such people, not least because all the sects and traditions of Christianity teach against such interpretations. Is Fr. Longenecker suggesting that the Qur’an’s command to behead unbelievers is just a madman’s misinterpretation? Then why are there so many beheadings, and why have there always been beheadings, since the advent of Islam? Why are these passages from I Samuel and the Psalms never misinterpreted in the way Fr. Longenecker suggests, and yet Qur’an 47:4 is so frequently — in this view — misinterpreted? That is the question Fr. Longenecker should ponder, and answer. I hope he does.

While we can admit that extremist jihadis use verses from the Quran to justify their insane barbarism, we should also listen to the majority of moderate Muslims who abhor such violence in the name of their religion just as we would support the majority of sane Christians who would repudiate any notion that a few verses in the Old Testament justify genocide and infanticide.

Again, this analogy is simply absurd. There have been over 20,000 jihad terror attacks justified by Islamic texts and teachings since 9/11. 23,770, to be exact, as of today. How many Christians have committed genocide and infanticide since 9/11, and justified their actions by invoking I Samuel 15:3 and Psalm 137:9? None. Zero. The score is 23,770 to 0. So Fr. Longenecker is asking us to listen to the sane moderate Muslims who abhor those 23,770 jihad terror attacks, just as we would listen to the sane moderate Christians who would reject Psalm-based infanticide. But there is no problem of Christians committing Psalm-justified infanticide. There is a global problem of Muslims committing Qur’an-based acts of violence and terror. What are Fr. Longenecker’s moderate Muslims doing about that problem? Where is the global movement of Muslims teaching against this understanding of Islam and fighting to curb the influence of the “extremist jihadis”? Why is there no such movement? Why did Muslims worldwide demonstrate against cartoons of Muhammad, but never anywhere against the “hijacking” of their religion allegedly perpetrated by Osama bin Laden et al?

We have to be able to ask these questions and ponder the implications of the answers. Otherwise we may end up being responsible for the demise of a civilization that we could have saved had we not been waiting for those moderate Muslim reinforcements to come charging over the next hill…and waiting…and waiting…and waiting…

If I am correct that the majority of Muslims abhor such actions, then they must be the ones who join in an alliance with all people of good sense, sane religion and humane values, to hunt down and destroy the wolves of ISIS.

Yes, they must. People have been saying that since 9/11 and before that. Yet they have not done so. Why not?

However, if I am wrong, and each of the world’s 1.6 billion Muslims are at this moment eyeing our necks and sharpening their knives, then I will be the first to offer not only an apologia but an apology.

Another straw man. As a Catholic cleric, Fr. Longenecker should know from long experience that the teachings of a religion are one thing, and how much any given believer adheres to them and implements them is quite another. If the Qur’an does command beheading, as I explained above, that doesn’t mean that every Muslim must behead. And even if the Qur’an commanded every Muslim to behead, which it doesn’t, that doesn’t mean that every Muslim is going to behead.

It is consistently astonishing to me how clouded with red herrings, detours, deceptions, and straw men this issue is, when actually it is rather simple. That is, of course, largely due to the large-scale Islamic supremacist campaign of deception in the West. And of course, good men like Fr. Longenecker want to believe the best of people and see the good in things — as he said in his first piece, that he wanted to give Muslims the benefit of the doubt. I think that’s fine. Let’s also respect them enough to assess Qur’anic teaching (and the mainstream Muslim understandings of Qur’anic teaching) accurately, avoiding shoddy moral equivalence and condescending “they must not really mean that” dismissals. The world is in crisis, and that crisis is going to get worse. To be realistic, open-eyed and truthful is not to be uncharitable. And to be any less today is to be suicidal.

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Comments

  1. Beagle says

    Sep 5, 2014 at 9:44 pm

    You won this debate so handily I expect Fr. Longnecker (Really? Reality is an absurdist play.) to present his sword to you and admit defeat. Show mercy and spare him I say.

    • Beagle says

      Sep 5, 2014 at 9:47 pm

      Oops, can I buy an E for LongEnecker?

  2. Jay Boo says

    Sep 5, 2014 at 9:56 pm

    From Evangelical to Anglican to Catholic, if I remember correctly from Fr. Longenecker’s blog.
    It seems he may still be searching.

    His blog is no too bad at first glance though considering.
    I was expecting a ton of (Radical) qualifiers for Islamic violence.
    Unfortunately, Fr. Longenecker has gotten stuck in the keyhole and refuses to let anyone open the door.

    • Elaine says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 12:42 pm

      From one heresy to another heresy to a third heresy, Modernism which is the summary of all errors.

  3. Mirren10 says

    Sep 5, 2014 at 9:59 pm

    ”The minor difference between us (indeed it is the difference of only one letter) is that while I think the Quran commends beheading I do not think it commands beheading— and “commands,” after all, was the word used in my title”

    Oh, for heaven’s sake ! Not only is it a distinction *without* a difference, it is just mealy-mouthed weasel words.

    mohammedans believe the koran is the unchanging, and never to be changed, word of ‘allah’. Therefore, quite apart from the fact that, as Robert points out, the koran does in fact *command* beheading, even if this Father Longnecker was correct in stating the koran merely *commends* it, it would still be incumbent on pious mohammedans to carry out ‘allah’s’ ‘commendations.

    God, I am so sick and tired of the pretzel efforts these sorts of people put their brains through, and by extension, the rest of us who are capable of reading the damn thing, all in the vain effort to find something, anything, anything at all, which will allow them to believe that the koran doesn’t command mohammedans to kill us all.

    I wonder if this Longeknecker will acknowledge Robert’s points ? I won’t be holding my breath.

    • will knutsen says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 6:01 am

      I believe that the reason why Catholics and other religious “people of the book” find it difficult to really understand the threat of Islam, is that they basically all have the same theology about a “cosmic war” between a supposedly all-powerful god and a rival, Satan. The illogical thesis of the theology (“all-powerful” PRECLUDES a rival) has created mass insanity for “the people of the book”, and for the two other “people of the book” to admit that Islam is at root insane would mean that thay would have to admit that their theology is precisely the same as Islam’s. Note I did not write “Share every detail of belief”; I mean they share the “cosmic war” illogic. And since they do, the other two instinctively cannot totally condemn Islam because they know that would be the undoing of their belief system! By the way, this fact about theology does not have a thing to do with Israel’s foundation as a state since it’s founders did not base its argument for statehood on biblical or religious grounds (The founding Zionists were not very religious; and the majority of Israelis are secular), though of course the Judeo-Christian tradition in Western society understandably meant that many of those involved in the granting of Israel’s statehood knew, or felt they knew that religion was a factor. However, since the founders of israel stated publically they were non-believers, we should take them at their word. Therefore, the theology which I condemn as illogic that leads to insanity (ISIS being the EXPECTED result of following the theology to the letter), has not much to do with Israel, and everything to do with Catholics and other Christians not being able to totally understand that they cannot bring themselves to totally codemn Islam because they share an illogical, unscientific, and dangerous theology.

      • wildjew says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 9:13 am

        Interesting comment on dualism. You are right about Israel’s early pioneers – though there has been a strain of religious Zionism for centuries – today religious Zionists are a powerful force in Israel (note: Naftali Bennett and his Jewish Home party) especially within the communities of Judea and Samaria.

      • Boston Tea Party says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 12:00 pm

        If you can’t see the collapse of Christianity, and the rise of the very relativism that you posit (all religions basically share the same logic and worldview)–as a major factor in the rise of Islam in Europe, then you’re just living in fantasy land. That’s really your position, that Christianity has historically not stood up to Islam because it shares such a similar metaphysical view? Do you not have the slightest inkling of the history of Christian Europe repelling Muslim invaders over the centuries?

      • Jax Tolmen says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 12:28 pm

        I like how you managed to twist your thinking in such a way that the current lack of action against Islam has something to do with an unconscious mass conspiracy to preserve religion.

        They are not related. At all, in any way, shape or form. If you actually read the other comments on this site, you would have found evidence that is directly contrary to your incoherent anti religious rant. Some of the most devoutly religious people on this site are the most fanatically convinced of the complete and utter evil that Islam represents. It does not seem to shake their faith, as you so claim.

        Robert Spencer is a practising Catholic if I’m not mistaken. Are you accusing Robert of refusing to accept the problem? If you are, you’re either incredibly stupid or a troll. Or a mixture of both.

        The reason people are having trouble dealing with the reality of Islam is complicated, but can be boiled down to a few key factors:

        1. We in the West have trouble accepting that 1.2 billion people don’t want to live like us, or that they will actively try to destroy us to make US live like them. We are largely secular, Islam is the antithesis of our society.

        2. No one wants to deal with the uncomfortable reality of where this might go in the future.

        3. People didn’t realise the Nazis were a major threat until they rolled into Poland. That had nothing to do with religion. People are just unwilling to accept that such danger exists. As a species, we seem predetermined to stick our heads in the sand when confronted with such massive threats.

        4. Multiculturalism.

        None of that has anything to do with what you said. They are all much more plausible reasons than the drivel you spouted.

        Just in case you confuse my intentions – I am an atheist, but I’m not like you. I embrace everyone in this fight. We get anti – religious militant assholes coming through here every so often. Don’t be one of those, you’re not going to achieve anything.

        • wildjew says

          Sep 6, 2014 at 12:41 pm

          2. No one wants to deal with the uncomfortable reality of where this might go in the future…..

          “If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.” (Churchill)

      • thomas_h says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 3:51 pm

        Once one postulates the nonsense that “Catholics and other religious “people of the book” find it difficult to really understand the threat of Islam” (in contrast to everybody else, I suppose) then one is more than likely to scramble to offer equally nonsensical explanation of this “fact” with the twaddle: “they basically all have the same theology about a “cosmic war” between a supposedly all-powerful god and a rival, Satan.”

        The rest of the gibberish follows naturally from these two premises.

        PS. “theology about the “cosmic war”?”
        Quite funny. Did you coin the term yourself?

  4. Anon says

    Sep 5, 2014 at 10:05 pm

    Another good article, “(and the Catholic Church in general)” BTW please remember Robert is not “picking” on the Catholic Church he’s just pointing things out as part of an overall process of pointing various things out.

    Not to be political, because jihadwatch is not about politics, but the liberal ideology in general says to just “say” things which results in pretending, which results in a “feel good” experience, like taking a pill. I would surmise this guy is quite liberal in his views.

    “I’m a liberal in the classic sense of the word – meaning I wish to have an open mind and an open heart to the viewpoints of others – seeking to embrace and affirm all that is beautiful, good and true in every philosophy, culture, group or perspective.”

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2013/08/call-me-an-evangelical-charismatic-liberal-conservative-progressive-traditionalist.html

    “Bigotry” radar: “He wants to get rid of bigotry and bias and prejudice of all kinds.”

    http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/more_christianity/2011/03/fr-dwight-longenecker-on-liberal-or-conservative.html

    I won’t be counting on this guy to protect future generations from physical Jihad warfare.

  5. fair_dinkum says

    Sep 5, 2014 at 10:06 pm

    he’s wishy washy and his statements are not worth reading. he’s double talking like a moslem.

  6. Emilie Green says

    Sep 5, 2014 at 10:25 pm

    These RCC clerics don’t really understand their own faith, but are more than happy to charge forward and instruct on the tenets on the political system known as Islam.

    Often wrong, but never in doubt.

  7. Tradewinds says

    Sep 5, 2014 at 10:34 pm

    I don’t understand what’s wrong with people like this. Islam has been a KILL ideology for 1400 years – why do people in the early 21st century, post-9/11, deny this simple historical fact?

  8. Champ says

    Sep 5, 2014 at 10:56 pm

    However, if I am wrong, and each of the world’s 1.6 billion Muslims are at this moment eyeing our necks and sharpening their knives, then I will be the first to offer not only an apologia but an apology.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Well, Longenecker, you ARE wrong. Period.

    And I for one don’t want–or need–an apologia/apology from someone, like yourself, who’s willing to trifle with the truth regarding what’s written in the quran; especially when there are countless muslims carrying out the savagery of beheading upon more and more innocents, and this savagery is growing everyday. And if you need 1.6 billion muslims eyeing your neck, then fine. But *shame on you* for your silly sarcasm by throwing out these inflated numbers over something of this magnitude. This is important and you’re being silly and sarcastic. Wow.

    This is easy, and you’ve chosen to make it complicated. Yes, the quran DOES in fact justify beheadings, so stop spreading your dangerous ignorance and lies …

    And I want to encourage everyone to think for themselves and to stop listening to morons like Longenecker. We must think for ourselves when it comes to islam and company and to stop looking to the so-called experts on the subject of islam–unless, of course, it’s Robert Spencer. We can *trust* his analysis.

    But many in leadership are failing us and we need to think for ourselves and remain strong in what we know to be the truth about islam. Take care.

  9. Bronson says

    Sep 5, 2014 at 10:56 pm

    Well he did say he wouldn’t apologize for misleading his readers but offer an apology in its old meaning, i.e. of attempting to defend his original misleading piece and he did this by continuing to mislead with straw men and distractions and avoidance in abundance.

    I like him twisting Robert’s words around and wrote that Robert wanted Longenecker to apologize to him.

    What takes the cake though is how he quoted Robert’s reference to 47.4 then in rebutting Robert’s charge that he had ignored 47.4 Longenecker actually quotes “47.4” and then goes on to ignore it again yet trumpets how he has answered Robert’s charge about ignoring 47.4.

    Heaven help us with people like this in the RCC, because that brazen refusal to engage on the very Koranic piece which *does* command beheadings is so typical of Islamic apologists.

  10. mortimer says

    Sep 5, 2014 at 10:59 pm

    Dear Fr Longnecker,

    ‘Nice’ Muslims are not imitating Mohammed, so they are NON-PRACTICING.

    ‘Extremist’ Muslims are self-consciously imitating Mohammed, so they are jihadists who repress women, believe in slavery, booty, extortion tax and political supremacism.

    There is no Golden Rule in the Koran or elsewhere in Islam. Admonitions to be ‘nice’ in Islam only apply to Muslims.

    Islam is a warrior cult based on plunder, extortion and enslavement.

  11. SallyA says

    Sep 5, 2014 at 11:06 pm

    If the “church” had divinely appointed relevance through its self-designated, deluded paid clergy instead of through the lives and witness of those who believe, then Mr. Longneck and others of his Chrislam persuasion would not be speaking the lies about Islam that they do. Disgusted with Chrislam from all corners of the “church,” I’m considering disavowing Christianity to call myself simply a follower of Jesus for doing God’s will. This ridiculous article is only more proof of reason to do that.

    My two best “Christian” friends, one Catholic, one Protestant, recently stopped attending church over the unbiblical tithing pressure in a down economy affecting them. We can still be the “called out ones” in our walk in the world and with one another and with our God. Maybe Christians need to consider that God is our sovereign. Of our “called out” ecclesia, Jesus is the head. The rest is man-made questionable Pauline and Petrine pastoring and pontificating contrary to anything true God might really want from us.

    If Islam is a religion, I no longer want to be in one, particularly when the formal religious church’s public representative says inane, ignorant things like “While we can admit that extremist jihadis use verses from the Quran to justify their insane barbarism, we should also listen to the majority of moderate Muslims who abhor such violence in the name of their religion …” No, you wolf of the sheepfold, Mr. Longneck, I should not also listen to that taqiyya/kitman tripe. None of us should. To listen would be to follow a lie.

    Jesus said in Matthew’s gospel not to call anyone Father except our Father in heaven. Jesus also said zero about pastors or salaried clergy of any type, instead indicating the obverse of mutual service one to another. The church doesn’t require leaders to be Jewish, which it would have to do if “the 12,” all mortal Jews, instead of the fully human/fully divine Jesus were the foundation. The church picks and chooses whatever it wants, however ignorant or dangerous (like Mr. Longneck’s remarks) to feather its own privileged nest. For Christians in a modern era of genocidal Islam, it’s time we listen to Jesus, instead of following the caste of priests and pastors off the cliff like lemmings onto Muslim sword points.

    Where two or more are gathered, that’s where we’re called out, not in a church building, and we don’t need Mr. Longneck speaking for us as if he can.

    • SallyA says

      Sep 5, 2014 at 11:08 pm

      Longnecked Longnecker is what makes the article ridiculous (btw), not Robert Spencer’s reporting about it.

  12. voegelinian says

    Sep 5, 2014 at 11:37 pm

    The only response I can think of to characterize this clown on stilts would be extremely foul invective worthy of the great Rabelais, using every cuss word in the book and then some.

  13. Rob says

    Sep 5, 2014 at 11:42 pm

    Surely Muslims in the West must accept that it is wrong as part of their continued existence here!
    The sense of entitlement goes with the attitude that that what they have available to them here is some kind of cultural ‘smorgasbord’. Pick this – leave that.
    Hey, wait a minute, haven’t I just described multiculturalism?

  14. gerard says

    Sep 5, 2014 at 11:43 pm

    “Does the Quran Justify Beheadings?,” by Fr Dwight Longenecker,
    Does Longneck give a damn about the Christians who are presently being slaughtered while he struggles (Jihad) to “redeem” Islam?

  15. [FA] says

    Sep 5, 2014 at 11:57 pm

    I’m supposed to start RCIA this weekend. This is exactly what has held me back for so long and also what has drawn me to the RCC. Men, women, and children are being slaughtered while people scour the Quran for a way to no blame Islam. Look at the end of the day I could care less about Islam, I care about the innocent lives. It just so happens we need to understand Islam to save the lives. So what is more important to this priest. Proving to himself he is right and Islam doesn’t command beheading or flat out ending the beheading? Certainly he is not in a position to convince Muslims about their religion.

    • gerard says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 12:07 am

      May I say: Don’t let Fr Giraffe put you off RCIA. He certainly doesn’t speak for all Catholics. Maybe he’s just afraid to stick his neck out! (Oops! Sorry about that! Just couldn’t resist it!)

      • SallyA says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 2:31 am

        @ [FA] and gerard – It’s not the good and loving rank-and-file Catholics that many of us have concern with, only the faux fathers anywhere (and the Vatican hierarchy). People who trust the faux fathers and/or the Chrislam pope are misled to their peril about Islam’s murderousness as well as about interfaith equivalency. Same for followers of Chrislam’s Rick Warren, etc.

        Some RC priests as the allegedly celibate fathers are okay but they’re usually the ones who admit over a beer that there’s no good reason by the biblical teaching of Jesus for them to be in authority, and they don’t take themselves too seriously. I’ve been in anonymous spiritual retreat settings with RC priests who no longer felt any sense of vocation but stated they stayed priests because they didn’t want to lose their livelihood. It tends to strip away the pretensions to hear it from their own mouths when they’re away from the parishioners and safe to be candid in anonymity. Then in public they can say such asinine things to their parishioners’ detriment as did this longnecked excuse for leadership.

        Maybe we need to start 12-step programs to recover from religious abuse, Salafi-jihadi Muslims being at the top of the list as the most likely to be murderously terrorist, the Christian brands of religion mainly disrespectful of our ability to operate in the “priesthood of believers” as biblically taught for Jesus followers.

    • Elaine says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 12:40 pm

      Do NOT go to RCIA. It is an indoctrination center against the true Catholic faith. Find a traditional Catholic Church which teaches the true Catholic faith. Your eternal soul is in danger if you join the Satan-inspired Modernist, man invented, false church with representatives like Longenecker.

      Read St. Pius X’s ” Sacrorum antistitum” and his anti-Modernist decree “Lamentabili sane exitu dated July 3, 1907 and the encyclical “Pascendi dominici gregis issued September 8, 1907, all of which outline the goal of the Modernists which was to destroy the Catholic faith while keeping her fruits. They infiltrated the Church during the Vatican II Council and its fruits are evil, heresy, blasemphy and in opposition to the true Catholic faith.

  16. Wellington says

    Sep 5, 2014 at 11:59 pm

    It can be seen again that to exculpate Islam one must resort to such things as tu quoque reasoning, parsing of words (e.g., “commend” v. “command”) and strawman set-ups. General ignorance and omission of important data (e.g., not mentioning Sura 47:4) don’t hurt either. Father Longenecker engaged in all of these and Robert Spencer rightly devastated this priest’s superficial and woeful defense of the only major faith which is also a totalitarian political ideology. So tired of this rot. Kudos to Spencer. Shame on Longenecker.

  17. Jay Boo says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 12:03 am

    I will go against the grain

    Yes, Fr. Longenecker is clearly off base with his follow-up to Robert about beheading.
    But this guy is not the typical Islam apologist.
    On a different issue he is way ahead of the ‘Islam is peace’ and Chrislam folks.
    I clicked on the link to his blog

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2014/09/british-girls-raped-by-muslim-gangs.html

    • gerard says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 12:32 am

      Thanks for that link Jay. From his Patheos blog Fr Longenecker does seem much more clued up on Islam than his Aleteia article suggests.

      • voegelinian says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 4:32 am

        Let’s see if gerard is right (I wouldn’t trust Jay Boo)…

        • voegelinian says

          Sep 6, 2014 at 4:45 am

          Longnecker whatever the fuck is his name, yes he has an essay that resembles a tough essay against ISIS — that doesn’t explain why he is going through so many torturous yoga pretzels disputing Spencer on what Spencer is clearly pointing out. The most reasonable conclusion is that Longnecker is asymptotic.

        • Jay Boo says

          Sep 6, 2014 at 10:08 am

          voegelinian often has well thought out comments
          Sometimes however he comes up empty and just resorts to name calling just to be seen as having something to add such as his ealier tidbit of empty ‘wisdom’:

          “The only response I can think of to characterize this clown on stilts would be extremely foul invective worthy of the great Rabelais, using every cuss word in the book and then some.”

        • Jay Boo says

          Sep 6, 2014 at 10:13 am

          voegelinian said
          “Let’s see if gerard is right (I wouldn’t trust Jay Boo)…”

          Go see for yourself voegelinian
          Don’t be so lazy.

          You could come back with one of your pompous longwinded lectures.

        • voegelinian says

          Sep 7, 2014 at 3:36 am

          Jay Boo likes Longenecker because he recognizes a fellow asymptote.

      • Jay Boo says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 10:18 am

        You are welcome gerard

    • Dwight Longenecker says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 7:08 am

      Thank you for taking the trouble to read the links to my blog and be aware of the fullness of my views on Islam.

      Have a great day!

      • Bills says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 1:16 pm

        If I had a long neck I would careful what I said around those filled love and caring Son’s of Islam. 😉

      • Wellington says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 6:35 pm

        Your “fullness” of your views on Islam are still woefully short of the truth. As Bertrand Russell observed almost a century ago, Islam is the only major religion which is totalitarian in structure and ideology. Russell went on to compare Islam to other totaltarian ideologies like your standard fascism as well as Marxism (Winston Churchill did this too).

        Are you aware that no school of Islamic theology to the present day, not the Hanafi, the Hanbali, the Shafi—not one—has repudiated the doctrine that any criticism of Islam, Mohammed or the Koran is to be met with severe physical punishment or death? What other religion has this in its theological blueprint, something which is inimical to basic freedom of speech?

        Are you aware that Mohammed himself said, “I have been made victorious with terror?” This comes from the Bukhari Hadith 4.52.220. What other religious or ethical founder said rot like this?

        Are you aware that Mohammed never got a single communication from Allah that denied him any sexual desire, including for his own daughter-in-law, Zaynab? What other religious or ethical founder compares to self-serving rot like this?

        Islam is a religion like no other. It is the only religon that calls for war to be made upon the unbeliever. Also, the Koran is always prescriptive. The Bible is often “merely” descriptive. No offense, but the total tonnage of what you don’t know abot Islam would, I submit, sink a battleship.

        Perhaps you should learn mucn more about Islam before you opine about it. A good start would be by consulting Sura 47:4.

    • Wellington says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 4:19 pm

      Last night, Jay Boo, I clicked on the link you provided and read some of what this priest has written. Sorry, but just because he’s not as bad as some still doesn’t mean he’s good enough or anywhere close to good enough. Spencer’s destruction of Longenecker’s “arguments” was thoroughly justified, even necessary. Hope you and yours are doing well.

      • Jay Boo says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 7:04 pm

        Longenecker’s “arguments” about beheading did seem to be classic inter-faith gift token of equivalence.

        Yet, he publishes the following article that the MSM would never publish.
        He references Muslim gangs not as ‘radical Islamists’ or Asian men and blames Islamic doctrine.

        British-Girls-Raped-By-Muslim-Gangs
        “This is about the rape, torture and abuse of young women by Muslim men.”
        http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2014/09/british-girls-raped-by-muslim-gangs.html

        His website is not Jihad Watch.
        Yet It is not Huff Post either

        Let us hope that it does not become a victim of coexist inter-faith ‘dialog’

      • Jay Boo says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 7:08 pm

        BTW Wellington thanks for your honest response and checking on the blog post.

        • Wellington says

          Sep 6, 2014 at 7:37 pm

          As always, Jay Boo, I respect your assessments even though once in a while I might disagree with them (although the vast majority of the time I find myself in complete agreement with you). Yours is a reasoned and informed voice here at JW and I for one appreciate it, as I’m sure many other regular posters at JW do.

          Take good care, pal. Now, back to the fight of fights in our time.

    • Champ says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 4:46 pm

      Well, Longenecker has it *wrong* about islam–just enough–to be a DANGEROUS FOOL, so I feel a Zero need to read anything he has to state on his website.

      Yeah I would love to see Longenecker negotiate his way out of this one: the islamic passage in question; should he ever encounter IS for ‘real’, and I doubt he’ll trifle with the truth then.

      • Champ says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 4:49 pm

        …he has it wrong from what’s being presented HERE, so I don’t want to bother giving a proven *fool* like him an audience, nor the benefit of the doubt.

  18. gerard says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 1:20 am

    Here’s an article by Phil Lawler:
    “Weep for slaughtered Christians, not for dialogue with Islam”.
    http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/otn.cfm?id=1049

    • Jay Boo says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 7:11 pm

      Very insightful as to the pitfalls of ‘dialog’

  19. Buraq says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 1:27 am

    Father Longenecker would become Father Shorternecker if IS got a hold of him.

    Clown!

    However, just to cheer everyone up. Go to You Tube and watch ‘Suicide Bomber Funeral’. I promise you’ll laugh till you cry!

  20. Buraq says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 3:34 am

    @ Michael Petek First book of Samuel 15: 3

    You said, stupidly, that this verse could be understood as an open ended command to commit genocide. No, it couldn’t, you five-star clown! It’s a specific command to attack the Amalekites – a tribe that no longer exists – from Biblical times.

    ‘Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’

    There are zero commands in The Bible to attack anyone! But there are in Al Qur’an!! (bites fist!)

    • wildjew says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 8:32 am

      Buraq, how do you know the Amalekites are a tribe that no longer exists today? How would anyone know? We have no prophet? What if Hamas are descendants of the murderous Amalekite peoples?

      • Jay Boo says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 10:35 am

        wildjew aren’t you grasping at straws just a little with your comment :
        “What if Hamas are descendants of the murderous Amalekite peoples?”

    • wildjew says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 8:32 am

      Buraq, how do you know the Amalekites are a tribe that no longer exists today? How would anyone know? We have no prophet? What if Hamas are descendants of the murderous Amalekite peoples?

      • wildjew says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 11:24 am

        I wrote, “what if?” How is it grasping at straws any more than the Amalekites are a tribe that no longer exists, or the Babylonians are a people who no longer exist, or Edom is a tribe that no longer exists? I don’t know. I am not a prophet. Do you know?

        Here, I am not the only one who grabs at straws: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129487#.VAslg_ldV8E

        Moses said, “The LORD has sworn; the LORD will have war against Amalek from generation to generation.”

        What does that mean to you?

      • Jay Boo says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 11:54 am

        I cannot say whether Hamas is made up of descendants of the murderous Amalekite peoples but that kind of labeling tends to foster irrational religious and ethnic hatreds that leads to genocidal logic. It is better to focus on the behavior, I believe.

      • wildjew says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 12:16 pm

        R. Spencer, quotes Fr Longenecker: “I will go back to my original argument. I Samuel 15:3 could be interpreted by a Christian madman as a divine mandate for genocide….”

        I see these quotes from the Jewish Bible quite a lot especially from atheists who want to make the point that the God of the Bible (the God of Israel) is a barbaric and genocidal God of “ruffians” like King David. I wonder how these wars in ancient Israel compare to the second world war whereby USAAF and RAF bombers firebombed (“terror-bombed”) German cities, incinerating nearly one million German civilians, men, women, children, animals, etc., the firebombings of Tokyo and the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. WWII was the last war the United States won, wasn’t it? Do the American people consider FDR and Truman war criminals? Do the British consider Winston Churchill a genocidal war criminal? I think not. These were great war time leaders.

  21. dlbrand says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 3:52 am

    The Qur’an commands all to obey Allah. Allah made obedience to his messenger, Muhammad, equal to obedience to himself. Likewise, disobedience.

    Muhammad commanded, if you love Allah, follow me.

    He further commanded those who wish to escape hellfire, to cling stubbornly to his Sunnah. Part of his Sunnah was indeed beheading.

    For such reasons and more “Sacred texts” based reasons, sira is rich with examples of believers beheading unbelievers, as are other noteworthy and highly regarded Islamic works—clear, straight forward with the command to behead.

    Beheading is simply part of Sunnah of armed jihad.

    And armed jihad, according to the “Sacred texts” in Islam, is to be executed “until” (they [unbelievers in Muhammad and his message] utter … or pay …) or “unless” (they embrace Islam).

    Because of those reasons and more, as mentioned above, the common practice of Muslims beheading “nonbelievers.”

  22. Billx says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 4:03 am

    Let is see what Longnecker+ does as they saw off his his head for being so ill informed.

  23. nacazo says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 4:20 am

    To me it’s straigh forward, the qur’an orders muslims to fight the infidels in 9:29 and also that when the muslims meet the infidels (in fight) to strike at their necks (to kill them) 47:4. So if Foley was an infidel, the ISLAM-ic state fought him and when IS met him, they stroke at his neck.

    9:29

    Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture – [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

    47:4

    So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them…

  24. Robin Rosenblatt says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 4:25 am

    Islam has no limits of violence. So, Mohammad cut off heads of Jewish tribe and the had sex with the wives and daughters of the men in their blood. In Islam Mohammad is the prefect man that all Muslim must do what Mohammad did.

    211a Sharia
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNA5-FLacJA

    211b Sharia (not for children)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFEsgCKJQ38

    211c Sharia
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPCpvUjmtXw

    Many Americans know a “Good Muslim” But they are wrong they know a “Bad Muslim” a Bad Muslim is a human. A “Good Muslim” would be following Sharia Law, killing and raping you. Islam in America is weak once it becomes strong many Bad Muslims will be become Good Muslims. Bill Warner, Center for the Study of Political Islam.

    You can also get many of his ideas in this powerful video A New-
Why We Are Afraid, A 1400 Year Secret:

  25. jewdog says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 4:28 am

    The Western Mirror Image Fallacy strikes again. No, just because you are a nice guy who wouldn’t behead anyone doesn’t mean that they are, or that Islam doesn’t sanction it. Somehow, I don’t fall into that trap, probably because I’m not nice.

  26. Burt says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 5:04 am

    I know Fr Longenecker is genuinely interested in the pursuit of Truth, therefore I will be disappointed if he does not respond by putting his hands up, admitting he has been roundly beaten up by the unassailable facts thanks to Robert Spencer. Father you lost this one!

  27. duh_swami says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 6:13 am

    I don’t trust anyone who wears and orange jump suit.
    I wonder if this priest believes that Allah and ‘God’ are one and the same?

    • mortimer says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 9:24 am

      he ‘mountain metaphor’ of religion (which Fr Longenecker uses) makes the unfounded assumption that everyone wants to get to the top of the same mountain! However, not every religion shares the same goal. And some goals are contradictory such as the chaste Heaven of Jesus and the playboy paradise of Mohammed. Where is ‘dialogue’ to go with such a vision patently degrading to women?

      This is but one example of a problem dialoguing with Islam. There are many other unique difficulties in Islam which, among religions, omits the Universal Reciprocity Dictum (the Golden Rule). Does Fr Longenecker realize that? Probably not. He is guessing, rather than doing primary research into Islam. He trustingly takes the word of duplicitous Muslim apologists who hide the foundational teachings of jihad, abrogation and the kafir.

  28. ApolloSpeaks says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 6:36 am

    FIRST RULE WHEN READING THE KORAN:

    Keep your head on your shoulders.

    If Father Longenecker had read the Koran with his head on his shoulders he wouldn’t be arguing against its authorization of decapitation for punishing infidels.

    Truth is if Longenecker had been a captured infidel fighting Mohammed in 7th century Arabia his head wouldn’t LONG be on his NECK unless he replaced Christ with Allah as his Lord and Savior and converted to the faith.

    http://www.apollospeaks.com

  29. Kenneth T. Tellis says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 7:03 am

    In order to really know Islam one must at least for a time live in a Muslim country, live among Muslims and have close contact, otherwise it is all hearsay, and the priest is not talking through personal experience. I on the other hand learnt something by mere accident. A sheikh friend /acquaintance told me that if a non-Muslim man marries a Muslim woman, he must be put to death, as it is a crime in the Al-Qu’ran. So, it is not hard to believe that those fanatics who beheaded the two American journalists were acting outside the realm of Al-Qu’ran. To make any excuse for the actions of Muslims who commit beheadings, is just being naïve, or wanting to reach out to Muslims. I am of the opinion that we need to act in a similar way to Muslims as they do to us. If those Assyrian Crusader Militia in Iraq or Syria capture ISIS members, behead them and let them know why!

    secondly, if the men who committed the beheading came from the U.K., do a follow up and trace their families in Britain. Then act by giving them the same treatment as they gave the two American journalists, and they will get the message loud and clear.

  30. Jaladhi says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 7:04 am

    This idiot of a priest, what else can we call him, how does he explain beheadings done by Mo/allah himself starting with beheading of 800 Jews of Medina. How was that justified or was that because it was done before the writing of Quran? We have got morons and traitors among non-Muslims who keep giving the benefit of doubt, but there is no doubt about justification of beheadings by Mo!! I

    What is prompting these traitors of non-Muslims to issue these lying statements. Have they aready converted to Islam and practicing taqiyya??

    • voegelinian says

      Sep 7, 2014 at 3:39 am

      Jaladhi, we must be more cautious and tread on eggshells of respect while people are being massacred and beheaded, as Jay Boo and Wellington counsel us.

      • Jay Boo says

        Sep 7, 2014 at 3:59 am

        Please define puerile

  31. GWhizz says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 7:14 am

    This is the way priest are. They live in zone of rationalizations that they have been taught and created to save their own sanity. They live lives in service to their fellow man as best they know how, but the problem is he is insulated from dealing with the problem Muslims. He does not know any stupid deceptive,racist, jew hating ,head chopping, misogynistic, narrow-minded bomb throwers. He, like most liberals know all they want to know by watching Lawrence of Arabia. (Oh! didn’t Peter O Toole look marvelous in those robes, sigh…

  32. Januk36 says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 7:30 am

    I simply don’t understand why non-muslims priests and seculars venture to explain islam.

    It’s up to islamic clerics to do that and up to seculars or in this case catholics to explain their view and their teachings.

    Headline:

    “Christian teachings would never allow beheadings”

    Much better. Come to “Papa” instead of following a sick religion.

    • Rinzai says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 8:17 am

      They know that a mullah or an imam has no choice but to cite sharia law and the hadiths which expicitly state that infidels are the worst of creatures and should be enslaved or killed. That wouldn’t go over well with the PC agenda. Gotta keep the lies afloat

  33. Isabellathecrusader says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 7:50 am

    It’s interesting that Fr. Longenecker, like so may others, uses the phrase “moderate Muslim”. If Islam is peaceful and these beheadings are a figment of our imaginations, what the heck do Muslims need to “moderate”?

    • mortimer says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 8:46 am

      ‘Moderate’ beheadings. ‘Moderate’ amputations. ‘Moderate’ stonings.

  34. Boston Tea Party says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 8:38 am

    Well, at least Longenecker is willing and capable of engaging in actual intellectual debate, instead of having a hissy fit, running away, and calling Robert a “right wing extremist.”

    But anyways, this is the fundamental flaw I see in Longenecker’s argument, and it’s a flaw shared by MANY in the west. He says:

    “If I am correct that the majority of Muslims abhor such actions, then they must be the ones who join in an alliance with all people of good sense, sane religion and humane values, to hunt down and destroy the wolves of ISIS………
    However, if I am wrong, and each of the world’s 1.6 billion Muslims are at this moment eyeing our necks and sharpening their knives, then I will be the first to offer not only an apologia but an apology.”

    It’s simply a false, dishonest dichotomy. He’s certainly bright enough to realize those aren’t the only two options. This is how the argument often goes: if the majority of the world’s Muslims do not personally support jihadi violence, then that means they share the same outrage that non-Muslims do, and will join non-Muslims against the jihadis. This is an incredibly flawed leap of logic. It’s certainly possible (and overwhelmingly likely, IMO) that the majority of the world’s Muslims oppose jihad violence, but are NOT going to actively side with non-Muslims against their fellow Muslims. I think quite obviously the vast majority of Germans during WWII opposed the idea of exterminating Jewish civilians in death camps—yet it in no way followed that the majority of Germans were going to rise up and side with the Allies against the Nazis. And quite obviously, it would have been foolhardy and disastrous for the Allies to adopt any strategy against the Nazis that counted on vast numbers of Germans switching sides to oppose the Nazis.

    • wildjew says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 8:54 am

      Lincoln wrote: “To sin by silence when they know they should protest makes cowards of men.”

      BTP, you wrote: “It’s certainly possible (and overwhelmingly likely, IMO) that the majority of the world’s Muslims oppose jihad violence, but are NOT going to actively side with non-Muslims against their fellow Muslims. I think quite obviously the vast majority of Germans during WWII opposedIt’s certainly possible (and overwhelmingly likely, IMO) that the majority of the world’s Muslims oppose jihad violence, but are NOT going to actively side with non-Muslims against their fellow Muslims. I think quite obviously the vast majority of Germans during WWII opposed the idea of exterminating Jewish civilians in death camps—yet it in no way followed that the majority of Germans were going to rise up and side with the Allies against the Nazis….”

      I take a different view. I acknowledge it is only my opinion. We know from polls for example, a majority of Palestinians support suicide bombings and other atrocities perpetrated against Jewish women and children. They come out into the streets and celebrate murderous terrorism. They celebrated the 9/11/2001 attacks. I believe a majority of Muslims worldwide have some sympathies for jihad violence against non-believers. That does not mean the majority are going to commit acts of violence but depending on the circumstances many could or would commit acts of violence. I believe a majority of Germans sympathized with the idea of persecuting Germany’s Jews and later exterminating Jewish civilians. This resulted from centuries of demonization of the Jews within the church and other institutions.

      • Boston Tea Party says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 9:14 am

        I think a majority of Germans certainly supported the persecution of Jews, but I believe a majority would not have personally advocated the actual wholesale murder of men, women and children. Just my opinion, not based on hard numbers.

        I don’t fundamentally disagree with you, wildjew. The percentage of Muslims who genuinely DO support jihad violence is up for debate, and my suppositions are not necessarily accurate. My only point is that just because a Muslim might honestly be opposed to the most horrific manifestations of Islamic doctrine, that in no way means he’s going to renounce Islamic doctrine and side with non-Muslims against the jihadis.

        • wildjew says

          Sep 6, 2014 at 9:34 am

          I am happy we agree.

          I feel this way. If there is a great evil and I do not denounce it or resist it in some way, I am complicit in the evil. I feel a need to constantly condemn Barack Obama on these Internet forums. This man who sat in a racist church for twenty years is doing terrible things to this country and the world (the Middle East in particular) because a U.S. president is very powerful. Americans knew they were electing a man who listened to anti-Semitic, racist, anti-American sermons. It was well known. Those who did not know, shame on them!

          For me, the only good or decent German was the one who actively opposed Adolf Hitler and the Nazis. If Germans opposed Nazism early on (they knew it was racist to the core) it could have been stopped. White Rose for example. Sophie and Hans Scholl gave their lives resisting Hitler. I feel the same way about Islam. Muslims who do not actively resist or speak out or condemn this savagery are in some way complicit. I believe much of the Muslim world is complicit.

      • PRCS says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 9:34 am

        WJ,

        I agree with your opinion.

        Even peaceful, secular Muslims (as Greenfield describes “moderate” Muslims) would likely join in violent mob behavior, though probably not fully at first.

        But if their less secular neighbors were to begin rioting against “filthy kuffar”, and especially if their personal safety were affected by NOT becoming involved–I imagine that the able bodied certainly would join the party.

        • wildjew says

          Sep 6, 2014 at 9:44 am

          PRCS, as you can see by my moniker, I am not a Christian. But there is one thing Jesus allegedly said that I can identify with. “Whoever who is not with me is against me….” Jesus was and is a Jew. There is no question where he would be (whose side he would be on) in these difficult times. There is no middle ground. Believers (Christians, Jews, etc.) and non-believers are increasingly compelled to make a choice. Are we on the side of civilization or on the side of savagery? Self-professed Christians who side with or sympathize with Israel’s enemies will be disappointed in the end. Israel’s enemies are God’s enemies in my view.

        • Champ ✞ says

          Sep 6, 2014 at 6:54 pm

          Are we on the side of civilization or on the side of savagery? Self-professed Christians who side with or sympathize with Israel’s enemies will be disappointed in the end. Israel’s enemies are God’s enemies in my view.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          As a Christian, I agree with you 1000%, Wildjew!! …yes, Israel’s enemies are INDEED God’s enemies–no doubt about it!

          “I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.” — Genesis 12:3

          This verse pertains to Israel! …the “you” is Israel!

      • Alarmed Pig Farmer says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 11:22 am

        We know from polls for example, a majority of Palestinians support suicide bombings and other atrocities…

        Don’t forget the Gallup polls done, as it happened, a few months before Osama was terminated. Turns out that, after all the years since his great victory in 2001, he was still a top 5 most popular man in the nation’s of Islam. Funny, Yale/Harvard man ex-Prez Dubya didn’t correct his statement about the tiny minority of extremist hijackers, possibly cuz Osama himself was a Harvard man. Be true to your school

    • voegelinian says

      Sep 7, 2014 at 3:41 am

      “if the majority of the world’s Muslims do not personally support jihadi violence”

      Problem is, we don’t know this. It’s simply a sweeping generalization erring on the side of giving Muslims the benefit of the doubt. We should be doing the precise opposite; but the asymptotic reflex is very psychologicallly powerful (indeed, so pervasive we see it often even in the hallowed halls of the Counter-Jihad).

      • Jay Boo says

        Sep 7, 2014 at 4:04 am

        “hallowed halls of the Counter-Jihad”
        ???

        Sir Galahad did you polish your shining armor when writing this?

  35. mortimer says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 8:43 am

    Dear Fr Dwight ,

    Are you GUESSING?

  36. Rinzai says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 9:06 am

    Basically, the only ”moderate muslim” is a muslim which does not follow sharia lar and the hadiths. Huh. Like a meat eating vegetarian. Seriously though… A muslim , as long as he considers himself muslim ,has a ”legitimate” right to follow sharia law and the hadiths which tell him to slaughter infidels. It’s like a reversed version of the Damocles sword. The sword of sharia is always there, waiting for a ”moderate muslim” to pick it up. There will never be peace with Islam. Comparing Islam to Christianity in ANY respect makes this priest an ignorant dhimmi and an enemy of Jesus Christ. By the way, if anyone is interested, read up on the Second Vatican Council and you will see just why the catholic church is in such a pathetic state today. Complete relativism, Christ denial, it’s all there.

  37. KrazyKafir says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 9:35 am

    Wouldn’t it be refreshing if Fr. Longenecker actually had the courage and conviction of his own position, and addressed Robert’s points, one by one, in a continuing exchange of communications. Haven’t seen that for a while. I guess too many bodies litter the past.

    • voegelinian says

      Sep 7, 2014 at 3:43 am

      Longenecker has more important things to do, apparently.

  38. Alarmed Pig Farmer says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 10:12 am

    This priest should maybe get a job at the National Defense University, where the two kowtowing professors revealed that Jihad is an inner spiritual struggle. This took some serious work to ignore all the passages in the Holy Ko-Ran that explain Jihad to be warfare, usually unprovoked and involving swords, spears, bows and knives.

    Fr. Longenecker, in turn, ignores what happened at Banu Qurayzay, where the noggins of hundreds of men and boys were chopped off, at the direct orders of the Holy Prophet Mohammed. That was a hot, head spinning day in Western Arabia, I tellya.

    Frauds. They’ve got the pulpit, the armed forces, the bench, the seats, the lecterns. They’re everywhere that counts, and they’re frauds.

  39. Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Me) says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 10:13 am

    How dare this Christian Kafir Father Longenecker try to deceive Muslims with his foolish arguments!

    Was I not the Seal of the Prophets? Or does a Kafir Christian priest presume to declare that he himself is a new Apostle, with a Message better than mine?

    Was I not the most Excellent Example that Allah could ever give to Muslims?

    And did I not behead many Kafirs myself – several hundreds, in fact?

    O Muslims! Now once again we can understand the eternal wrath of Allah for the Christians, who always go astray! See how they seek to deny and disregard and turn away not only from the very words of Allah, but also even from the very deeds of the Excellent Example that you have in Allah’s Apostle!

    • Alarmed Pig Farmer says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 10:49 am

      … the eternal wrath of Allah for the Christians, who always go astray!

      Oh Holy Prophet, Lo! The Infidels always stray from… what? Just what is the right and straight path of the Islam, to where does it lead? On a related note, the Bokos stole 300 pubescent girls, and more recently the Caliphs stole several hundred pubescent girls and young women. Anybody willing to venture a guess what the girls and young women are doing on a daily basis now? Lo! You can be assured that the peaceful religion of Islam, the Religion of Piece, will lead us down the right path. Lo!

  40. bruce dunn says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 11:21 am

    Dear Robert Spencer—
    I saw yourself and Ms. Geller in Union Square recently and quite appreciated that civil rights demonstration. I just wanted to express my appreciation for your civil rights efforts. Your rebuttal to the father (I’m a practicing Catholic) was spot on and was a text-book example of logical debate. It demonstrates your palpable decency and humanity. Lastly, these recent days…when I read the stories it has so clearly reached a new level of geo-political danger as never before; all you have been speaking out about over the years has finally exploded in a new way such that even formerly oblivious people are starting to become unnerved. Truly, I feel as if mankind has reached another pre-world-war level of inchoate, fraught danger. PAX

  41. Blitz2b says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 11:25 am

    Me thinks Longenecker is spewing dhimmified nonsense because he does not want to sound too contradictory towards his big boss Pope Francis, up there in the Vatican… If Francis blindly says jihadis are distorting the authentic teachings of the Koran, then Longenecker has sing the same hymn in harmony with him…. No?

  42. Julie says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 11:42 am

    Whether or not you want to argue what the Koran does and does not justify the fact remains that the man who made up the illness called Islam, Mohammad, beheaded innocent people, forced people to convert to Islam or die, and was very intolerant.
    .
    Islam is sick to its very core because of Mohammad.

  43. Elaine says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 12:19 pm

    Longenecker is NOT a Catholic priest. He represents the man invented Vatican II (Modernist) Church whose doctrines, dogmas, worship services and goals are in direct opposition to the true Catholic faith. As a non-Catholic opposed to the Catholic faith, Long has been taught to embrace and promote all things opposed to the Catholic faith. The Modernists have successfully fooled the world into believing they represent Catholicism but are in fact, representatives of evil and their fruits make that evident to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear.

  44. awake says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 12:27 pm

    Pride goeth before the fall. Longenecker was proven wrong and is clearly outside his sphere of expertise.

    Even by acknowledging that the Qur’an commends beheading, while not commanding it, as a drowning man grasps at the weakest of reeds, he essentially confirmed Robert’s argument.

    Game. Set. Match, Spencer.

  45. George says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 12:28 pm

    Fr Longneker shoud be more concerned to defend persecuted christians in africa and midle east then to teach the koran to muslims,. Cause muslims know much better their religion islam, then Fr Longnecker does. For last Fr Longneker could also try to prove their reason, just going to Iraq and Sirya to explain in loco the misunderpretation of Koran to Isis men.

  46. mgl says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 12:55 pm

    As others have pointed out, Fr. Longenecker is no cartoon liberal when it comes to Islam. On the whole, he’s significantly less deluded than most Catholics, though he certainly doesn’t acquit himself well in his exchange with Spencer.

    As a former longtime reader of his blog, I concluded that Fr Longenecker, though basically pretty solid, is far too fond of the “pox on both your houses” mode of rhetoric, in which he strikes an affecting pose as the Voice of the Sensible Middle Ground, in contrast to those Deluded Extremists on each side of the argument. The risk of this conceit is of becoming so infatuated with his own “moderation” that he forgets to actually engage the dueling positions on their merits–as Fr Longenecker does again and again and again. And indeed he does so here.

    Unfortunately, Father became so discomfited by the people calling him out on his rhetorical sleight of hand that he closed his comments permanently.

    • Jay Boo says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 2:49 pm

      Robert Spencer can write the truth and be criticized for it.
      If Fr. Longenecker speaks the whole truth, the CAIR goons and MSM go after the Catholic Church.
      Caliphate Muslims are extremely jealous of the Catholic Church.

      Why isn’t CAIR being held accountable for beheadings?

      http://catholic4lifeblog.wordpress.com/2014/08/24/sexual-abuse-crisis-cardinal-pell-compares-priests-to-truck-drivers-as-he-claims-catholic-church-leaders-should-not-be-held-responsible/

      • wildjew says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 3:04 pm

        Do you think it might be better to tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may, rather than tell lies and tarnish your church?

        • Jay Boo says

          Sep 6, 2014 at 3:20 pm

          I will bet that very few JW’s actually went to Fr. Longenecker’s blog link that Robert listed in the fourth paragraph. He is no where near as dhimmified as some of these commenters assume.

          http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/

        • Jay Boo says

          Sep 6, 2014 at 3:38 pm

          Fr. Longenecker does appear to be overly cautious at times but does not seem to be a Chrislam or MSM doctrine follower.
          Despite equivocating on the beheading issue, he at least says more than the MSM will dare to say, such as:
          ———-

          “Has the damning verse from the Quran been taken out of context? The explanation from Muslim apologists is that the background for this command is within an actual battle situation. The Battle of Badr in the year 624 is the time and place where Muslim warriors were called to defend their people. Muslim apologists argue that it is just as unfair to generalize from this verse and say that the religion of Islam condones beheading as it is for critics of Christianity to say that I Samuel 15:3 commands genocide, and that Christianity is intrinsically a barbaric and violent religion.

          It seems a fair argument. The damning verse from the Quran, just like the damning verse from the Old Testament, was set in a particular historical context in which the warriors claimed divine revelation for their acts of genocide or violence.

          The problem however, is that there are no Christians today who are wiping out whole villages at the edge of the sword. There are Muslims however, who are doing so in the name of their religion. In Nigeria, Boko Haram are doing just that as this report from Reuters reveals. The same is happening in Syria and Northern Iraq as ISIS claims territory—evacuating villages, slaughtering their inhabitants, selling the women into slavery and burning churches. Jesus may have said, “I have not come to bring peace but a sword.” But everyone understands that he did not mean it literally.

          However, the prophet in Quran 8:12 did mean for his soldiers to use the sword literally and without mercy, and the Islamic warriors of ISIS behead those they consider infidels out of direct obedience to Quran 8:12. “

        • wildjew says

          Sep 6, 2014 at 4:34 pm

          You wrote: “I will bet that very few JW’s actually went to Fr. Longenecker’s blog link that Robert listed in the fourth paragraph. He is no where near as dhimmified as some of these commenters assume….

          Fr. Longenecker wrote in his piece, Love Your Enemies – What if he’s a Muslim Terrorist?:

          “…. there is another way (than fighting a monstrous evil)…it is the via crucis. It is to submit to the sword, the cross, the rack and the rope. It is a willingness to be killed rather than kill.

          “The paradox of the cross, and the reason we preach Christ crucified and hold high the crucifix is that we believe after all is said and done, that this is the true path of victory, that the martyr is no coward, and that somehow this kind of love really does conquer all….”

          This is a very dangerous, even pernicious doctrine, don’t you think?

        • wildjew says

          Sep 6, 2014 at 4:36 pm

          Fr. Longenecker is preaching a gospel of surrender and defeat; capitulation in the face of a great evil. I am not suggest some of this cannot be found in the Christians bible. I am suggesting it is to be rejected. It is very destructive and dangerous.

        • Champ says

          Sep 6, 2014 at 5:05 pm

          This is a very dangerous, even pernicious doctrine, don’t you think?

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Yes, Longenecker is a “dangerous” LIAR!

        • Champ says

          Sep 6, 2014 at 5:06 pm

          Bravo, Wildjew!

        • Jay Boo says

          Sep 6, 2014 at 6:17 pm

          To wildjew & Champ
          I reluctantly agree that Fr. Longenecker may have more liabilities than assets.
          Yet he actually uses the word Muslim with terrorists in the same sentence which the MSM and Official Catholic spokespersons do not do. At least he is making an effort to take on the challenge which is more than Pope Francis.
          Mainstream Catholics need to break out of their complacency mindset of viewing the developing world as a place to give aid and speak out about oppression of Christians in Muslim countries.
          I am not sure that the Catholic Church is able to take on Islam properly though, even if it chose to .

        • John says

          Sep 6, 2014 at 11:19 pm

          As a Catholic myself, your statement makes sense.

          All of this false ecumenism collegiality is a rotten fruit of Vatican II

        • voegelinian says

          Sep 7, 2014 at 3:17 pm

          Jay Boo likes Longenecker because Jay Boo recognizes a fellow asymptote.

      • Champ says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 5:04 pm

        If Fr. Longenecker speaks the whole truth, the CAIR goons and MSM go after the Catholic Church.

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        If Longenecker can’t speak the “whole truth”, then he’s a liar and coward–plain and simple.

      • sc says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 9:05 pm

        That mo-slum front organization is not held accountable for any thing, they are just a front for most of terrorist groups and barry the imposter is and has been on of their most ardent supporters, and why not? he and his family in Kenya are members of the mo-slum brotherhood. and the misspelling in on purpose as that is what they do to any place they mange to infest. make a slum out of it.

  47. Marshall Hopper says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 1:23 pm

    It’s VERY difficult for anyone who grew up in Judeo-Christian culture to believe that people could actually do such evil (as ISIS and other Jihadis throughout history, the past 1400 years) in the name of their religion and their “god”, so they automatically assume it must just be “extremists” as opposed to “moderates” (whatever that means).

  48. Alice says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 1:31 pm

    Whom do these clowns think they are helping?
    Don’t they realize that they are taking the ignorant to their slaughter just like sheep?

  49. bobm says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 2:30 pm

    In defense of Jesuit purity and Roman celestial romps in the desert.. this berob- bed mystic at the gates of perdition ; perhaps with a name like his he secretly yearns for the big parties in daily virginal .. juices and joyup there in paradise .. .. not being ones to miss out on self denegration and leaving the monastic back door agape. Certainly sir again Mr . Longenecker ; when all is said and done in your holy romps and mischievous fitting together the things of God with abomination.. you will be no problem whatsoever to find and strike hard at for the sons of perdition … having stuck your neck out so far for all to see and be amazed at.

  50. Paul says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 2:40 pm

    Actually, you did write that he owes you an apology. You stated that “Fr. Dwight Longenecker and Aleteia owe their readers a retraction and apology.” Furthermore, you are one such reader. The correct conclusion—concerning yourself—to be drawn from these premises is so obvious that it would be painful to write it.

    This situation is a little like the first day of Logic 101 when the professor introduces the students to a syllogism with the premises “All humans are mortal” and “Socrates is a human”. Some students get it immediately. Others, well, they accept reluctantly. Now, I’ll grant that your mistake is not damning to your case concerning Koran 47:4, but it ought to give you pause about why you contradicted a fact so plain and unmistakable. Since you rely so much on a Bible for ontology, metaphysics, epistemology, and ethics, an awareness of your mistake ought to induce astonishment that the papist Bible, the one without the 7 holes, has not even ONE decent chapter about correct reasoning. No, not one.

    (Yes, yes, I know. Papism is not just Bible but tradition, Bible, and some other stuff.)

    All that scribbling and editing and redacting and shuffling and scribbling over a period of many, many generations….and guided by the Supreme Consciousness of Existence, too! Yet not a single chapter for a brief introduction to logic. Not even a bad chapter, either, dedicated to reasoning. Instead, it’s page after page of

    crude superstition;
    blind faith;
    assault, battery, theft, and homicide (Joshua’s invasion);
    contradictions (http://exchristian.net/3/);
    absurdities (John 3:16);
    and so forth.

    Does any of this sound familiar? It should. The Koran is basically the same, but without the clever narratives. So why not lay aside the cult of Jesus for a while, so that you can cleanse your thinking and get right with reality? You won’t live forever, and once you run out of life, you may not get a second chance to waste time with puerile fantasies about personal immortality and a supreme overlord to shower you with attention and affection.

    A Brief Introduction to Logic
    by Paul A. Gregory
    http://philosophy.wlu.edu/gregoryp/class/Brief%20Intro.pdf

    It’s by the way that ontology answers the question ‘what exists?’ and metaphysics the question, ‘what is the nature of what exists’? Epistemology answers the question ‘how is it known?’, and ethics, ‘what should be done?’.

    The Gospel Story Quiz
    http://exchristian.net/3/

    • Jay Boo says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 3:09 pm

      Your (impressive display) of proselyting atheism would have been more impressive had it not begun with dishonesty.
      No where in your intro-paragraph do you show your true topic.

      You give the false impression that you wish to speak about Fr. Dwight Longenecker owing an apology but your first paragraph had no other purpose but to serve as a brief segue to your criticizing the bible and Christianity.

    • Anon says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 10:33 pm

      “You stated that ‘Fr. Dwight Longenecker and Aleteia owe their readers a retraction and apology.’ Furthermore, you are one such reader. ”

      Language manipulation and twisting, i.e. deception. You know what he meant. READER/FOLLOWER, DAILY READER, WEEKLY READER, ETC. Islam, CAIR, et. al. uses the same deceptive tactic, language manipulation.

    • Mitch says

      Sep 7, 2014 at 12:50 am

      @Paul: “Furthermore, you are one such reader.”

      As Anon pointed out, you are distorting the plain meaning of Robert’s words. “Logic 101” *please*

      Some commenters commit logical fallacies.
      Paul committed a logical fallacy.
      Therefore, Paul is some commenter!

  51. Texas Catholic says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 2:59 pm

    In the weeks since (rosary-praying Catholic) James Foley was killed I haven’t heard one mention of him or Islam from the pulpit at Sunday Mass. Not even a Prayer of the Faithful for his soul or for his family. At the same time, we did pray about the race riots in Ferguson, Mo. during the Prayers of the Faithful at least once that I recall — I believe that was the Sunday after what I would call Mr. Foley’s martyrdom.

    • Jay Boo says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 3:44 pm

      If Catholics were out beheading Muslims everyone would be talking about it.

      • chase says

        Sep 7, 2014 at 1:08 am

        [extreme catholics]

    • charityintruth says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 5:01 pm

      Thank you, Robert Spencer, for this post.

      Many of our Catholic Pulpits like the mainstream mass media are silent when they should be sounding the alarm on matters which not only endanger our bodies but our souls. So many times we pewsitters are told to not judge lest we be judged or don’t trouble yourselves on matters you cannot change, just fast and pray. In essence we are not only being dumbed down by our government, mainstream mass media but also by our pulpits. Meanwhile the pot is boiling over. Like the days of Judas, something is terribly wrong in the Church established by Christ which you can see in this video by ChurchMilitantTv/Michael Voris:

      9 5 2014 Spiritually Insane Bishops
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZYuJpUaJus#t=25

      May our Creator God in the MOST BLESSED TRINITY give us all His Truth, Wisdom and Grace to fight the good fight against all evil!

      Roman Catholic convert in Georgia since 2002 and forever

      • TH says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 5:32 pm

        The strang thing is that the majority of the Christians in Iraq are actually Catholics, of the Chaldean Rite. The Archbishop of Mosul made a clear affimation stating that the West will have to face what is happening in Iraq in the not too distant future.
        Fr. Longenecke ought to have a better grasp of biblical exegesis of the Old Testament, as the texts in which refer to orders by God to kill enemies are easily explained and understood with the help of the historical-critical method of exegesis which is commonly used by both Catholic and Mainline Protestant biblical studies. Besides, all of the Old Testament is reinterpreted in the light of Jesus Christ, so that priitive violence present in the Old Testament is superseded by the message of love and forgiveness introduced into the world by Jesus. Likewise circumcision and rules about ritual ´purity, prohibition of eating pork and other foods are totally superseded by the New Testament.

  52. Elliott says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 3:38 pm

    In Psalm 137:9, the Psalmist is informing Babylon that it will suffer in the same measure that it (Babylon) caused Israel to suffer. It will be carried out by those that conquer Babylon. This verse does NOT mean that the suffering will be applied / carried out by the Jewish people.

    • wildjew says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 4:17 pm

      Keep in mind, this is a Psalm. It is a Psalm that is not attributed to anyone; not to David or any other great leader. It is a Psalm. If this were in the law of Moses it would be a difficult passage. But it is only a Psalm.

    • TH says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 5:34 pm

      The strang thing is that the majority of the Christians in Iraq are actually Catholics, of the Chaldean Rite. The Archbishop of Mosul made a clear affimation stating that the West will have to face what is happening in Iraq in the not too distant future.
      Fr. Longenecke ought to have a better grasp of biblical exegesis of the Old Testament, as the texts in which refer to orders by God to kill enemies are easily explained and understood with the help of the historical-critical method of exegesis which is commonly used by both Catholic and Mainline Protestant biblical studies. Besides, all of the Old Testament is reinterpreted in the light of Jesus Christ, so that priitive violence present in the Old Testament is superseded by the message of love and forgiveness introduced into the world by Jesus. Likewise circumcision and rules about ritual ´purity, prohibition of eating pork and other foods are totally superseded by the New Testament.

      • wildjew says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 5:41 pm

        “….all of the Old Testament is reinterpreted in the light of Jesus Christ, so that priitive violence present in the Old Testament is superseded by the message of love and forgiveness introduced into the world by Jesus. Likewise circumcision and rules about ritual ´purity, prohibition of eating pork and other foods are totally superseded by the New Testament.”

        ):

        • sc says

          Sep 6, 2014 at 9:18 pm

          All that is very nice so what is your point? let the mo-slums just walk all over you and chop off your silly head? so i say to all those who would bow down to the despicable bunch known as Islamist, commonly know as mo-slums, to your phoney prophet and his imaginary moon god, may piss be upon them.

  53. mortimer says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 4:16 pm

    Fr Longenecker’s lacking acquaintance with the primary doctrines of foundational Islam is TOTALLY common among Christian clergy. But why would they assume Islam is greatly different, when Islamic disinformationists work so feverishly to deceive them. Christian leaders are too charitable to realize the Muslims are lying…and the Muslims know that !

    Longenecker is an example of a charitable, well-meaning dupe of the Muslim liars.

  54. charityintruth says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 5:11 pm

    Thank you, Robert Spencer, for this post.

    Many of our Catholic Pulpits like the mainstream mass media are silent when they should be sounding the alarm on matters which not only endanger our bodies but our souls. So many times we pewsitters are told to not judge lest we be judged or don’t trouble yourselves on matters you cannot change, just fast and pray. In essence we are not only being dumbed down by our government, mainstream mass media but also by our pulpits. Meanwhile the pot is boiling over. Like the days of Judas, something is terribly wrong in the Church established by Christ which you can see in this video by ChurchMilitantTv/Michael Voris:

    9 5 2014 Spiritually Insane Bishops
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZYuJpUaJus#t=25

    May our Creator God in the MOST BLESSED TRINITY give us all His Truth, Wisdom and Grace to fight the good fight against all dumbing down and evil!

    Roman Catholic convert in Georgia since 2002 and forever

  55. awake says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 8:38 pm

    I for one am growing so weary of this increasingly pervasive commentary between Jews and Christians alike, highlighting the differences in belief between the two. It is so tedious, and I am all but certain that I am not alone in this disdain.

    It aids the enemy, which we should collectively believe is Islam, and detracts from the value of this site, Jihad Watch, and all the tireless and thankless work of Robert Spencer over they years.

    For the record, JIHAD is a religious ideological term exclusive to Islam alone.

    All proselytizing must stop, unless it be one’s faith, or faith in disbelief, as a direct comment against the doctrine of Islam.

    Marisol would never had put up with this nonsense, and Robert is not currently afforded the luxury of a designated moderator outside of himself.

    We all should give him thanks and do our best to assist him in keeping this site pure from proselytizers, Muslim trolls and Islam apologists alike.

    I used to have so much faith in the JW commenting community in this obvious common goal.

    That faith is waning quickly in that regard. I might suggest that Robert disable comments altogether at JW.

    • Champ says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 8:50 pm

      I might suggest that Robert disable comments altogether at JW.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      I might suggest that you stop reading the comments section. You do have that option.

      Disabling the comments section is a radical suggestion, and it might only hurt Jihad Watch and Robert’s important work. There is that aspect to consider.

      • Champ says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 8:57 pm

        …and of course *freedom of speech* being another key reason to maintain the comments section.

      • awake says

        Sep 6, 2014 at 9:13 pm

        I did and do consider that, Champ, and yes, I am aware that I can ignore the comments, which are devolving in my estimation, pitting Christians against Jews, after a token, yet proper condemnation of Islam. Have you not noticed?

        I celebrate your faith, though not everyone else might or do, but that is besides the point.

        When I responded to a supposed anti-jihadist with a foul name, which I alerted Robert to, he was summarily banned, with your concurrence if I recall correctly. But now you’re essentially telling me take a long walk off a short pier?

        • Champ says

          Sep 6, 2014 at 9:22 pm

          But now you’re essentially telling me take a long walk off a short pier?

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          No, if I wanted you take a “walk off a short pier” I would have said so.

          I enjoy your comments very much, Awake …I am *only* objecting to your suggestion that Robert disable the comments section. I thought if the comments section was so annoying and frustrating, to you, that you might stop reading it, that’s all. I did not intend to send the message that you are not welcome here–not at all.

          Take care.

        • Champ says

          Sep 6, 2014 at 9:29 pm

          I did and do consider that, Champ, and yes, I am aware that I can ignore the comments, which are devolving in my estimation, pitting Christians against Jews, after a token, yet proper condemnation of Islam. Have you not noticed?

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Yes, I have noticed this. But I do allow people their point of view, and sometimes I will insert my point of view.

          You know, freedom of speech, and all that jazz …

          Unless, of course, said freedom is abused; as was the case with the poster you mentioned. His moniker was vile and he deserved to be banned. And sometimes I will write Marc or Robert regarding a comment that I find objectionable, but that comment will remain standing because it’s Robert’s call. I’m sure you would agree.

        • Champ says

          Sep 7, 2014 at 12:26 am

          I wrote:

          And sometimes I will write Marc or Robert regarding a comment that I find objectionable, but that comment will remain standing because it’s Robert’s call.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          I should clarify: sometimes the comments I report *are* removed–depending on what Robert thinks.

    • wildjew says

      Sep 7, 2014 at 7:38 am

      If your faith informs your worldview, your politics, how you view ISIS and other dangerous and wicked peoples how can you avoid talking about it?

  56. helen says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 8:47 pm

    Jihadies will love Fr. Dwight Longenecker. It is easier to decapitate someone with a LONG-NECK.
    However, it’ll be classified as a “moderate muslim” job for allah… so will be much fewer than 72 virgin waiting.

  57. awake says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 9:42 pm

    Thank you, Champ.

    Hoping you and yours are well and prosperous. 🙂

    • Champ says

      Sep 7, 2014 at 2:24 am

      Thank you, Awake …and I wish you and yours the very best!

  58. Billx says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 10:51 pm

    As the writ says, “be watchful”. Look out for that, blade. George, George of the burning sands

    🙂

  59. Soloview says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 12:25 pm

    “I am not sure this is a distinction with a difference, but since it was reached without consideration of the Qur’an verse that says, “When you meet the unbelievers, strike the necks…” (47:4), it is dubious anyway”.

    I don’t want to get technical but the verse does not help your argument. It is clear, the command is meant for the context of a battle. There is nothing in the Qur’an to justify beheading of unbelievers who surrendered. It would not be have been any consolation to the Qurayza, but still the kind of savagery on display by IS has never been codified in Islam.
    I am much in agreement with Robert on most of what he has to say about Islam, but I believe strongly that to mount an effective defense against the Islamist scourge we need to mobilize the largest number of people, ie. the big middle, not just people on one side who have difficulty holding their pee.

    • Mitch says

      Sep 7, 2014 at 12:42 pm

      @ Soloview: Of course you want to get technical. So do I.

      The Quraiza surrendered and were beheaded by Mohammad. That’s “codified” Islam.

    • voegelinian says

      Sep 9, 2014 at 5:49 am

      http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2014/09/04/satloff-family-spokespersons-pathetic-challenge-to-is-caliph-al-baghdadis-jihad-orthodoxy/

      There’s your “codification”, “Soloview”. It took me 27 seconds. When will these cretins do their own research before promulgating from their mountaintops?

  60. el-cid says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 3:06 pm

    Robert, I apologize if it was already said above, but this looks like some kind of ironic joke.

    Fr. Longenecker clearly makes a prominent target with his long neck, eh? No wonder he’s in denial.

    Excellently penned, as usual. 🙂

  61. AnneM says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 4:40 pm

    Is Father Longenecker afraid of the TRUTH?

  62. Anglojew says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 7:35 pm

    Now if only we could find some prominent imams who agree with him

    • John Stefan Obeda says

      Sep 8, 2014 at 5:14 pm

      I think that it would be good for us to get messages from Islamists, I mean, sincere messages worthy of debate; I don’t mean smart-aleck insults of sorts. Our own words ought to have salt. It is good to get ideas from the horse’s mouth. And glory be! What rejoicing we would experience together with the angels if one Islamist would see the light through our good efforts in debate, but, I know, it’s like the devil being converted. Well, Saul became the apostle Paul. And we’ve heard the saying: “Were it not by the grace of God, there go I.” And we know that some Islamists are, indeed, converted to Christianity and, how very sad, also some Christians forsake the truth.

  63. Arsen Lapiin says

    Sep 9, 2014 at 5:42 am

    Longenecker is a weasel, trying to save his face with casuistry – like all logic-choppers of his ilk.

  64. Bernie says

    Sep 12, 2014 at 4:31 pm

    If Quran doesn’t endorse beheadings, where in Bible does it condone
    burning at the stake, disemboweling – and other onetime Catholic niceties?

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