This will be interesting. The Islamic State preaches and practices the same Islam that the Saudis have been spending billions to spread throughout the world for decades. The idea that this vision of Islam is un-Islamic is an absurd politically correct fiction, unsupported by the Qur’an, Muhammad’s example, Islamic law, Islamic tradition, and Islamic history. Muslim countries that may join this effort against the Islamic State don’t have a different understanding of Islam, they just don’t fully implement Islamic law. They may join the coalition for pragmatic reasons: Egypt threw off its Islamic government last year and is still moving against the Muslim Brotherhood, and may see action against the Islamic State as a prudent move to neutralize Islamic supremacists at home, and rapidly re-Islamizing Turkey may want to take out a competitor for the caliphate — which is not to say that either is certain or even likely to join the coalition. The point is that if they do, they will not be able to offer “the real Islam” as an alternative to the Islamic State’s version, and will not do so.
Ironically, I found this in The Weekly Standard, where the article about Kerry’s remarks concludes: “Five years out from his Cairo speech and conflict bubbling up through the Middle East and the world, the reality on the ground may be far from what the president hoped or anticipated, but the rhetoric is unchanged: Islamic extremism is not real Islam. Given the rise of ISIL, the Boko Haram, and the continued tenacity of al Qaeda, President Obama may find this message to be an increasingly hard sell.” Maybe he will, although he seems good at ignoring reality. The funny is that for years, The Weekly Standard insisted that “Islamic extremism is not real Islam,” and resisted all discussion and debate about this issue. It is good to see reality breaking through even there.
“Roundtable Discussion With Press in Paris,” Remarks by John Kerry, Paris, France, September 15, 2014 (thanks to The Weekly Standard):
Now, as I said today – you guys weren’t in there, but I said it in this meeting – the military piece is one piece. It’s one component of this. It’s a critical component, but it’s only one component. And the truth is, equally – probably far more important than the military in the end is going to be what countries are able to do to help Iraq to be able to step up and other places, by the way, to step up and start drying up this pool of jihadis who get seduced into believing there’s some virtue in crossing into Syria to fight or to join ISIL. And a young nine-year-old kid who goes with his father and his mother and holds up the severed head of someone. I mean, that’s just beyond imagination. And what this effort has to do is literally dry up the money, dry up the foreign fighters, prevent the foreign fighters from going home back to various places to do harm. It has to start major efforts to delegitimize ISIS’s claim to some religious foundation for what it’s doing and begin to put real Islam out there and draw lines throughout the region.
And I think this is a wake-up call with respect to that because every Arab leader there today was talking about this, about real Islam and how important the Friday sermons are and where they need to go. Those are critical components of this strategy. Getting logistics, airlift, putting humanitarian assistance in, flying it in, ammunition, equipment, training, advisers – all of these roles are the totality and you have to be able to describe this in a logistic way – in a holistic way.
John C. Barile says
Obviously, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, Pakistan, Iran and the OIC ought to redouble their efforts to Islamize us all.
/sarc
Voltar says
That’s right John, ISIS is just workplace violence.
Frederick MacKenzie says
This is a First Amendment issue. What the State Department is now doing is promoting a particular religious identity, what they call “real Islam”, whatever that is. I would guess that this is unconstitutional. You would think the constitutional law professor, Obama, would care about this.
somehistory says
This speech by kerry is in agreement with what o said about his job as president being, in part, to make sure he fought against negative stereotypes of islam wherever he found them (not an exact quote, obviously). He and kerry are just promoting a positive *image* of islam as the real islam is not anything positive.
The First Amendment doesn’t seem to matter to them in their goal.
Paul says
It won’t be as straightforward as we might like it to be. First, consider the text: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”. So if the State Department or another department of the executive branch is promoting “real Islam”, whatever that might be, Congress would have to be prodded into action against it, perhaps on the basis of Congress not having appropriated money to promote “real Islam”. It’s not difficult to predict what excuses the Obamabots would use in defense of the Obama admin.
Boston Tea Party says
Here’s the fatally flawed logic that so many in the west, including Kerry, posit:
“If Muslims don’t support ISIS, then that means those Muslims are outraged about ISIS in the same way non-Muslims are, and those Muslims will actively side with non-Muslims against ISIS.”
It’s simply a faulty equation, as reality does and will demonstrate. The idea that thousands of Muslims from around the world are going to volunteer to fight ISIS in the name of “Real Islam” is about as likely as ISIS being defeated by a squadron of flying unicorns.
Hey, maybe I’m wrong—maybe Imam Kerry’s nuanced understanding of Islamic jurisprudence and his profound exegesis of the Quran will suddenly make all the “extremists” realize they’ve been completely wrong about the true nature of Islam.
Budvarakbar says
ISIS has a much larger – in number of nations than the Chicago Imam will ever have!
gravenimage says
Very true, Boston Tea Party. Many of the Muslims who oppose ISIS are not concerned with the Islamic State’s beheadings, sex slavery, or genocide of Infidels—they either object to their murder of other Muslims, or else they simply don’t believe Al Bagdadi should be the new Caliph.
A lot of this “opposition” has more to do with power struggles than it does with any kind of ideological or moral opposition.
Boston Tea Party says
Very true. But also, even for the Muslims who GENUINELY oppose beheadings, sex slavery and genocide on moral grounds, it STILL doesn’t logically follow that those Muslims are going to take the step of actually siding with non-Muslims against their fellow Muslims.
gravenimage says
Also true, Boston Tea Party. If Muslims really do take over in the West and start treating us like oppressed and threatened dhimmis, I imagine a few of the more decent and less devout Muslims might sadly shake their heads at the turn of events.
But how many would *actually stand with us*? As we see from history, *damn few*, if any.
sammy says
All well and good, but how are they going to erase history?
Its an historical fact Islam spread by the sword, by marauding conquering Islamic armies, who used exactly the same tactics as the present day Islamic terrorists.
Looks like we are in for some interesting times ahead.
Rivkah says
Grab the osh#t bar and hang on….
el-cid says
A fish rots from the head.
Until we have a real Western leader who calls out Islam from the shadows, we are in danger.
The Islamic State is doing a good job preparing Western people to realize the danger of Islam. Not even the Western press can conceal it. That is the only good development.
mortimer says
Saudi Salafism = ISIS Salafism
I can’t see a difference. Can you see a difference?
mortimer says
Reality check needed for Kerry. Salafism is ‘real Islam’.
lord garth says
Differences between ISIS and the Saudis
1. the Saudis do not consider themselves a Caliphate; the King and his appointees have the authority to administer the law and that means postponing some of the strictures of salifi law (e.g., Christians are allowed to worship behind walls)
2. the Caliphate wants immigrants; the Saudis do not (they instead want temporary servants)
3. the Saudis have a huge treasury to protect and huge oil reserves to administer and both of these require cooperation with infidel nations
mortimer says
Another chorus of Kumby-ya.
Angemon says
And you weren’t there, but I reeled in a big one yesterday. Must have weighted a ton. And I did so one-handed while fighting the biggest, fiercest grizzly bear ever. With a toothpick.
Erm, why? Why should it be someone else’s work to delegitimize ISIS’ claims of being the real islam, especially when all evidence points up to them actually being real islam? That should be the work of muslims. If they refuse to do so then, as muhammad put it, “silence is consent”.
Myxlplik says
What would Kerry do if ISIS was acting out of a proper understanding of Islam? Seems a fair question to ask, because he doesn’t seem 100% sure… he knows ISIS hasn’t been properly countered on an ideological basis, he’s waiting, hoping and he admits ift.
Milo says
Isis IS real islam. Chk his http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2008/09/what-can-civilian-really-do.html
Beagle says
Yep, more daw’ah should solve that IS problem. Top men. TOP. MEN.
Jaladhi says
yeah, lets see the real Islam come out!! Where was it hiding so far an dwhy didn’t it come out so far.
Oh, when the real Islam come out Kerry will find it to be same Islam as practiced by ISIS.
Nobody is more delusional than our government officials!!
Myxlplik says
This is an immigration and border controll issue it isn’t complicated. This is Islam, just be real and make the difficult decisions, bombing them or playing whack a mole is the easy way out ideaologically.
If we don’t change our immigration policy this mess, will be here in a few generations.
Rivkah says
It will be here much too soon, because obama won’t do much about it. They actually have a open playground unless we arm ourselves and learn to use our weapons.
Jay Boo says
Mike Bizzaro
the topic is about
(Islamic State is same as Islam)
“The Islamic State preaches and practices the same Islam that the Saudis have been spending billions to spread throughout the world for decades”
Biff H says
IS is just another chapter in the machinations of a turf war within Mohammedanism and Obama Inc. has decided to back a loose federation of Sunni interests that have temporarily withdrawn the knife from their “co-religionist’s” throat to stand against an existential threat so all can get back to fighting it out amongst themselves to dominate the cult.
Salah says
“Egypt…may see action against the Islamic State as a prudent move to neutralize Islamic supremacists at home”
Egypt won’t join this coalition; unlike the leaders of the West, El Sisi is not stupid. He told Kerry that Egypt has one condition to join in: the war against ISIL must include ALL terrorist organizations (the MB, Boko Haram, al Shabab, al Qaeda etc.)
Since the MB is ruling the W.H., I doubt Kerry will agree and fight against his own masters!!!
John C. Barile says
If only al-Sisi were leading an anti-jihadist coalition!
gravenimage says
Kerry: Anti-Islamic State effort must “begin to put real Islam out there”
…………………………….
The anti-Nazi Germany effort must “begin to put real Fascism out there”
Could you imagine such an effort seventy-five years ago?
Kepha says
John, John, John, John! Please stop embarrassing your country and yourself by pretending that you’re a better scholar of Islam than this Baghdadi feller. I know you’re at heart a good, secular American liberal who wears a Roman Catholic mask to get elected in Boston; so you are obviously very clever at pulling the wool over the eyes of primitive, simple traditional believers of any sort. But, what do you really know of Qur’an, Hadith, and Islamic history that gives you the confidence to practice Takfir on Abbekr al-Baghdadi?
I know you’re a politic sort. I also know that there are lots of Muslims who may look quite askance at ISIS, and even some who are downright decent sorts. I don’t want a general war with everyone from northern Nigeria to Ningxia, Mauretania to Mindanao, and the Kama to the Comorros, either! But if I were you, I would not pretend to be the arbiter of what Muslim peoples’ religion really is or says. The little I know of Qur’an and Hadith suggests to me an Islam that is not the benign thing you claim it to be, and this less-benign image is what a number of movements in the Islamic world seem to be confirming to me by both their words and actions. Further, the resonance that the terrorists and whatnot seem to have with the Islamic street, the absence of a “moderate” voice that can be heard in the Islamic world, the elusiveness of the “moderate” Islam which you and others of our leaders assure us is out there (like in the X Files?), and the ill-treatment of non-Muslim minorities across the Islamic world all conspire to make me regretfully conclude that my picture of Islam is closer to the truth than yours. Please note that I would greatly regret being in the right about Islam and the billion people who follow it! How I wish I could be confident that you are right! But I can’t be!
And is NATO or any other coalition really capable of wiping up ISIS? It seems to me that Turkey would be the linchpin of such a coalition, yet they’ve been backing ISIS, and providing a conduit of personnel and weapons for the movement!
John, John, John, John, I know I was only a lowly junior officer when I was in your shop. But statements such as the one you have made leave me with a very uncomfortable feeling that either we have the blind (you) leading the blind (the rest of us Americans) or gross incompetence (such as inability and/or unwillingess to read what the forces on the ground stand for) in high places.
Milo says
The REAL islam. Is there a way to get this to Kerry? We can send it via the genie or jasmine. http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2008/09/what-can-civilian-really-do.html
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
… nine-year-old kid who goes with his father and his mother and holds up the severed head of someone. I mean, that’s just beyond imagination.
No, it’s not beyond imagination. It’s real, it happened, and there must be an explanation such a thing could be. Hey, we expect a pinhead from a pedigree diploma mill Yale, but you guys are routine. The only thing that makes you special is that you’re a war coward, run off by the Navy that was happy to see you go.
But it’s not enough to simply say it’s unreal, somewhere in the unanswerable Beyond. What are their motives, John? What’s the major urgent question for Infidels to answer? And why do you avoid it? Personally, I think you believe your own bullsheet and you’re scared, just like you were in Nam.
Champ says
Oh kerry, you are such a lousy liar. They ARE putting the real islam out there. And I am so tired of his silly games and lies–and obama’s, too. Hey who’s running this country anyway? …a couple of clowns? Worse, they’re a couple of criminals who have stolen the truth about islam and company and keep it hidden behind a smoke screen of deception and lies. Wow what an evil pair.
Milo says
Chk this out. At least they tell the truth even if the media tries to hide it. Well the internet if free of control (as of now) so forward this after reading ‘What Non-Muslims Can Do About Islam’ — http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2008/09/what-can-civilian-really-do.html
M&Ms says
It doesn’t matter how much they rant and rave, and how much even the imams rant and rave, that Islam is a Religion of Peace, the text of the Quran and the recorded deeds of Muhammad DO NOT CHANGE. Sheesh …. when will they get it?
Frank S. says
Can somebody please hand over a copy of the Quran to Mr. Kerry? Maybe he can read it while flying over the middle east instead of watching movies during in-flight entertainment. That should remove the Islamic cobweb that has beclouded his eyes.
ralph says
Stupid “Jane Fonda” Kerry… This is the real Islam…
Genesis 16: 7 The angel of the Lord found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. 8 And he said, “Hagar, slave of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?”
“I’m running away from my mistress Sarai,” she answered.
9 Then the angel of the Lord told her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” 10 The angel added, “I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count.”
11 The angel of the Lord also said to her:
“You are now pregnant
and you will give birth to a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,[a]
for the Lord has heard of your misery.
12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward[b] all his brothers.”