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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Poll: One in six French citizens supports the Islamic State

Sep 6, 2014 9:23 pm By Robert Spencer

islamic-stateFrance is only 7.5% Muslim, and we all know, of course, that the vast majority of them are peaceful, tolerant pluralists who abhor the Islamic State as un-Islamic — and only greasy Islamophobes think otherwise. And even if all the Muslims in France supported the Islamic State, this poll, if accurate, would indicate that the Islamic State enjoys significant support among non-Muslims. As Osama bin Laden noted long ago, people like the strong horse.

“16% of French Citizens Support ISIS, Poll Finds,” by Madeline Grant, Newsweek, August 26, 2014 (thanks to Joaquin):

One in six French citizens sympathises with the Islamist militant group ISIS, also known as Islamic State, a poll released this week found.

The poll of European attitudes towards the group, carried out by ICM for Russian news agency Rossiya Segodnya, revealed that 16% of French citizens have a positive opinion of ISIS. This percentage increases among younger respondents, spiking at 27% for those aged 18-24.

A recent Ifop poll placed French president Francois Hollande’s approval rating at just 18%.

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Filed Under: France, Islamic State (aka ISIS, ISIL, Daesh) Tagged With: featured


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Comments

  1. Jovial Joe says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 9:30 pm

    If true this is just astounding and frightening. Having said that, France is notoriously left-wing and combined with the highest Muslim population in Europe, perhaps the result was inevitable. However it will hopefully spur the majority to vote in even greater numbers for Marine le Pen and the NF party who are vehement opponents of Islamic immigration.

    • Jack Holan says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 10:10 pm

      I would guess that the number is higher since immigrant societies are reluctant to express publicly their opinions. I don’t think the Far Right and immigration restriction will necessarily help. There needs to be a revitalization of French pride, history, traditional values and taught behavior at schools. The needs to be a required universal education and anything religion or culture based will have to be extra and in addition to the universal curriculum. There needs to be in France some type of loyalty commitment to France. A military draft or National Service would begin to sort loyal citizens out from those who reside in France but live in another world.

      • mylesman says

        Sep 7, 2014 at 6:59 pm

        In the U.S., the democrats, like the Labor party in Britain, are trying to import as many illegal immigrants as possible. They don’t care how much crime, welfare dependency or social disorder these illegals cause.
        Leftists are the same, whether in America, Britain or France. They think their lives and comforts won’t be affected, because they have money and political power. To the man or woman, the left are sociopaths and narcissists.

    • mortimer says

      Sep 6, 2014 at 10:57 pm

      They approve of ISIS…its beheadings, its persecution of minorities.

      They are barbarians pretending to be civilized.

      They are the TOTALITY of all the Muslims in France.

      • John Bucko says

        Sep 7, 2014 at 4:37 am

        France has a history of beheading at the guillotine, so I’m not sure beheading is such a shocker to these guys. The French have always been a bit different , forming alliances only when it suited their needs and their backs were against the wall. Revolutionary War, World War I , WWII, Indochina, and the Mideast conflict which France and England allied for their own interest, in which the Israelis army movement would benefit both. So don’t expect a call for assistance until thing ‘s get really bad and the liberals who are really thick finally understand the threat.

        • Chrissie07 says

          Sep 7, 2014 at 10:38 am

          The guillotine was invented during the French revolution to avoid exactly these atrocities and make beheading ‘More Human’, whatever that is good for in this context.
          I am writing this to show that they are falling behind even these bloody standards…

      • voegelinian says

        Sep 7, 2014 at 3:19 pm

        And of all Muslims throughout the Dar-al-Islam and the Dar-al-Harb.

    • SpiritOf1683 says

      Sep 7, 2014 at 3:44 am

      It also means that if you’re a French Jew, its time to board the next plane to Tel Aviv whilst you’re still in one piece.

      • Judi says

        Sep 7, 2014 at 6:49 am

        Too true unfortunately.

    • Peter Buckley says

      Sep 7, 2014 at 5:54 am

      “If this is true…”

      Has anyone considered the likelihood that someone at ICM just forgot to include a decimal point?

      1.6% sounds about right……..

      I love JW, but this wouldn’t be the first time RS had included a story that turned out to be false.

      • VultureTX says

        Sep 7, 2014 at 7:33 am

        Occam says no, as the Time article says 7% was the value for Germany and UK. And I would love to have a loser pays bet for the US that it is above 4%.

        /And always remember at any time 6% of population is mentally insane.

        • Peter Buckley says

          Sep 7, 2014 at 8:28 am

          “….spiking at 27% for those aged 18-24.”

          18-24 year-olds are usually up for a laugh.

          Sorry. Can’t take this poll seriously. Looks like the ones who answered it didn’t either.

        • gravenimage says

          Sep 7, 2014 at 6:53 pm

          Peter Buckley wrote:

          18-24 year-olds are usually up for a laugh
          ……………………..

          Well, of course! What could be more hilarious than supporting beheadings, sex slavery, and genocide? Good grief…

      • Allan says

        Sep 7, 2014 at 3:16 pm

        “18-24 year-olds are usually up for a laugh.” Beheadings, rapes, sex slavery, and genocide are no laughing matter. In the USA, the 18-29 age group supported B. Hussein Obama the most, among all age groups. Is voting for the nation’s leadership and future something “up for a laugh?”

        “Sorry. Can’t take this poll seriously. Looks like the ones who answered it didn’t either.”

        Sorry. Can’t take your comment seriously. Looks like the ones who read it didn’t either.

      • voegelinian says

        Sep 7, 2014 at 3:23 pm

        The story is reported by Newsweek, a mainstream news magazine that it is reasonable to suppose would move Heaven and Earth to avoid reporting anything remotely negative about Muslims. Aside from being deformed by PC MC, however, Newsweek is not the kind of news magazine that would make such a colossal typo and let it go out to the public officially (especially considering that, again, it reflects poorly on Muslims).

        But no, let’s take Peter Buckley’s advice and put all Jihad Watch stories in suspension of belief because any given fact that reflects poorly on Muslims could be incorrect.

        At any rate, the only percentage in this regard the West needs to reasonably assume is 100%, because of taqiyya.

        • gravenimage says

          Sep 7, 2014 at 6:57 pm

          Yes—it is common for fools to downplay the seriousness of the threat.

          Oh, surely they *can’t* be serious about their support for this barbarism—they must be having a laugh! sarc/off

      • Mirren10 says

        Sep 9, 2014 at 10:23 am

        ”I love JW, but this wouldn’t be the first time RS had included a story that turned out to be false.”

        Really ? Evidence, please.

        In the rare instances where Robert has posted an article that turned out to be false, he has immediately posted that it is so.

  2. Yaakov Holansky says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 9:58 pm

    Years of an educational system both here and in Europe exalting the Third World and denigrating the culture, religion and accomplishments of the West paved the way for easy acceptance by the youth of the last two generations of both a totally foreign religion and “anti-culture”. The influx of non-assimilating immigrants from the ME and parts of Africa accelerated the process. Since the late 90s we’ve seen a more defined active recruitment and propaganda machine by Islamists go unchallenged. Now we have direct recruitment via social media. The point of all this is that it is not surprising that large segments of society particularly the young have gravitated to this murderous counter-culture and religion. The news media give sympathy and lends support to these Forces of influence and become a tool as well. Our problem is having not confronted the problem from the get go. It is never too late, however the first task at hand is to take down the PC concept and replace it with reality based perspective. We need law enforcement to be able to profile. We need secure borders and criminal offenses for support, recruitment, aid and comfort to terrorist groups that are robbing us of our young and we need to be able to drill down in organizations such as BDS and see who is really behind them. If it is foreign elements than they need to register as foreign agents so we will be able to better monitor it.

  3. Don McKellar says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 10:02 pm

    If the French had any brains left at all after the great leftist stupifying 1/4 century which left that county with burning cars in the streets thanks to Muslim colonization, maybe – MAYBE they’d get that it is in their best intrest to supply as many anti-french civilization muslims as want it with free plane tickets to the Islamic Caliphate. Then strip them of French citizenship. I’m talking about those with dual citizenship. Then they can never again return to France and must live in the sharia paradise or their country of origin instead of France forever. Be totally up front about it.

    How many takers would there be? I predict ZERO.

  4. Louise from Canada says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 10:15 pm

    Unfortunately France as England is going to self destruction because of all these socialists left that allow muslims everything they ask. If you want to know what is happening in France, see website Riposte Laique and you’ll be sick of what these islamists are doing to the native French. Yes Jovial Joe, like you said” however it will hopefully spur the majority to vote in even greater numbers for Marine le Pen and the NF party who are vehement opponents of Islamic immigration.”

    • Timothy says

      Sep 7, 2014 at 12:38 am

      The same will happen in the US if the looney left keeps at it. Looking for votes in order to stay in power will be our undoing.

  5. Fanch says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 10:18 pm

    The actual percentage of muslims in the french population is hard to know exactly. 7.5% seems a low estimate, it is more likely over 10%, but since ethnic statistics are prohibited in France, all kinds of figures circulate, and are hard to check. This leads to fantasies from every side. This poll could suggest that the actual fufure is closer to 15%.

    Still, it seems very high and I suspect that there is a methodology problem here. I very much doubt any non-muslim french actually supports ISIS or any of their kinds, but I might be wrong. Other polls on the subject would be welcome to correlate this one but there is so much fear from the politicians that there won t be probably any.

    • Myxlplik says

      Sep 7, 2014 at 12:39 am

      I suspect a lot of these “citizens” polled were probably illegally in France, which suggests the actual numbers of Muslims in France is higher, like you suppose at 15%… at least.

      • gravenimage says

        Sep 7, 2014 at 7:02 pm

        That seems a likely explanation, Myxlplik. Disturbing, but likely.

        Even in dhimmi Europe, I very much doubt there are any Infidels who go so far as to support ISIS.

        • Fanch says

          Sep 8, 2014 at 12:11 am

          It is high time we had real figures about the number of muslims in France.

          One of my suspicions is that they consider people who claim to be secular as being “without religion”, which would be the case of a large number of French natives, but of some people of muslim ascent as well. A part of these “secular muslims” would be likely to approve of what’s going on in Irak ans Syria.

          Anyway, without any reliable source about the ethnic groups’ statistics in the French population, we can only speculate.

    • Brian Hoff says

      Sep 8, 2014 at 2:20 pm

      In WWII at least 50% of the French people support and active work with the Nazie Germany.

      • gravenimage says

        Sep 9, 2014 at 6:49 pm

        “Brian Hoff”—really, “DefenderofIslam”—wrote:

        In WWII at least 50% of the French people support (sic) and active (sic) work (sic) with the (sic) Nazie (sic) Germany.
        ……………………………..

        Is old “DefenderofIslam* finally admitting how very similar Islam is to Fascism?

  6. William says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 10:40 pm

    Marine Le Pen is the best choice for France, but don’t get too enthusiastic and do not put too much hope in her or any politician. When they get into office, they become very cautious. Their agendas get watered down. Self preservation and remaining in office become priority number one. Not rocking the boat too much is taken as the preferred course. Look at the Republicans here in America and the Tories in Britain. Result: status quo.

    It is going to take an exceptionally special person or persons to do the necessary changes.

  7. mortimer says

    Sep 6, 2014 at 11:04 pm

    In other words, there are no ‘moderate Muslims’ in France.

    • Timothy says

      Sep 7, 2014 at 12:41 am

      Please, for the unlearned picking up this website, allow me to help you define a “moderate Muslim.” There is no such thing. Either one is or is not a Muslim. I simply wish our peoples and our politicians would not only realize that fact, but also realize this is why we (the world and the Muslims) cannot stand together.

      • William says

        Sep 7, 2014 at 1:55 pm

        There is also no such person as a “radical Muslim.” Either one is a Muslim or not a Muslim. Those that we continue to label as radical are the true believing Muslims, while those we label as moderate are the lapsing ones. It is like pregnancy. A woman is either pregnant or not pregnant. She cannot have a moderate or a radical pregnancy. In the end, it is the true believing ones that keep the lapsing ones in line for the former has more scriptural authenticity and more frenzied devotion and are willing to impose conformity on the latter. Just look at those in any Islamic state – Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. There, the lapsing or moderate Muslims are dominated by the true believers through acts of violence and intimidation. All conform to Sharia Law or are punished. Women must be covered; women cannot go out alone; women can be beaten with impunity in accordance with Sharia Law; non-Muslims are preyed upon and eventually driven to extinction; chopping of neck, hands and feet for various infractions; killing for apostasy; punished for not following any Sharia mandates; and on and on. There is no moderate Muslim in an Islamic state. A moderate would be punished or killed. Therefore in an Islamic state there is only one type of Muslim: a true believing Muslim, whether he or she is a sincere believer or not. The moderate Muslim cannot reveal himself as a moderate without putting himself at risk of life or limb. It is only in a non-Muslim country that one can be referred to as a moderate Muslim, that is a lapsing Muslim, without risk of harm.

      • voegelinian says

        Sep 7, 2014 at 3:28 pm

        You may be forthrightly stalwart about your rejection of the term “moderate Muslim”; but do you then, like many other JWers, sneak in the back door equivalents which sound different enough to allow you to think you are a no-nonsense stalwart counter-jihadist?

        • William says

          Sep 7, 2014 at 9:09 pm

          A “no-nonsense stalwart counter-jihadist”? I don’t know exactly what that is. If that means not letting moderate Muslims off the hook, I see the moderate as grave a threat as the radical. The moderate gives support, if not directly, to the radical by identifying himself as a member of the same evil ideology, even if in name only.

        • voegelinian says

          Sep 8, 2014 at 3:28 pm

          William, if you’re going to respond to a comment of mine, all I ask is that you respond to it; not to something else. Is that too much to ask?

  8. Smart Guy says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 12:26 am

    The true left does not support Islam.”Religion is opium” The looney left supports Islam.They support Islam because corporations such as Bechtel, and Halliburton have spent billions of dollars on Saudi Arabia which practices the most radical form of Islam, so that millions of dollars are being spent to brainwash people into believing the lie that Islam is a religion of peace. The PKK a Marxist group is fighting against ISIS.
    There has to be a backlash by the sheepeople once they realize that the looney left are a bunch of brainwashed morons.

    • Jane says

      Sep 7, 2014 at 12:11 pm

      At this point, SmartGuy, I’m not sure there’s a clear distinction between the “true” or “loony” left. I’ve been disowned by my former UK friends and family, who are leftist academics, because I’ve married an Israeli. Of course, my friends/family swear they’re not anti-Semites, and they even think they are telling the truth when they say it. But the degree to which leftists in Europe hate not only Israel, but Israelis, blurs the distinction.

      From my perspective, the kind of ostracism I’ve experienced from European leftists feels, I imagine, not too dissimilar to how it would feel to experience anti-Semitism, especially since I was told by one relative that my marrying an Israeli feels to him exactly the same as if I married a Nazi.

    • gravenimage says

      Sep 7, 2014 at 7:12 pm

      “Smart Guy” wrote:

      The true left does not support Islam.”Religion is opium” The looney left supports Islam.They support Islam because corporations such as Bechtel, and Halliburton have spent billions of dollars on Saudi Arabia which practices the most radical form of Islam, so that millions of dollars are being spent to brainwash people into believing the lie that Islam is a religion of peace…
      …………………………….

      Ah, yes—because so many on the left spend all their time listening to Bechtel and Halliburton. sarc/off

      The fact is that the hard left’s support for Islam has a lot more to do with “political correctness” and a hatred for the free West than it does with supposedly being brainwashed by corporate interests.

      Besides, following this “logic” you would find *everyone* on the right singing the praises of Islam, since everyone knows that everyone right of center gets all their information from Bechtel and Halliburton. sarc/off

  9. cliffface says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 1:14 am

    It is important to read between the lines and I can’t say enough how much I appreciate Robert and others for highlighting the danger that islam is becoming to humanity and the future.
    The support for IS was likely canvassed from a muslim only poll.
    ie: 16% of French muslims are in favour not 16% of all French citizens
    Still a problem but not of a magnitude the story may suggest.
    It is common for large numbers of muslims to piss and moan and seek sympathy where ever they are hosted, it is just what they do to get attention and special benefits not afforded to others.
    If you gave a muslim $100 he would demand $110 that is their mentality.
    Act the victim while believing you are the victor and this poll will inspire the French government to provide more funds to clerics who will claim to be de-radicalising youth while in fact the money will be spent on the opposite.
    That’s how they got to France in the first place, by being untruthful to good Samaritans who swallowed the lies hook- line and sinker.

  10. Demsci says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 2:18 am

    And yet, maybe, just maybe, there will be some sort of backlash among Western and maybe even Arab Muslims, like the Egyptians, Jordanians, Tunisians etc.

    In my city, Rotterdam, Holland, mayor Ahmed Aboutaleb issued a remarkable statement yesterday. In conjunction with city counsel member Joost Eerdmans.

    The mayor professes to be a Muslim and the counsel member is from Leefbaar Rotterdam, a party dedicated to the memory of Pim Fortuyn and not so different from Geert Wilders.

    The mayor explained how he himself and other Muslim immigrants had prophited from both investment of Dutch Society and hard work from their immigrating (grand)parents. And that he as mayor regularly “received the oath of allegiance” from immigrants (including many Muslims).

    Now then, he said, when a Muslim, immigrated or born in Holland, seeks to join or support the Islamic State, he would call that “Treason”! To Holland and to it’s constitution and democratic system and also to their forbears.

    I was very positively surprised hearing him say that. To me he clearly is a “democratic-minded Muslim”. As are IMO Zuhdi Jasser and Irshad Manji and Qanta Ahmed, from the movie “the Honor diaries”. And those “sort of Muslims” is what Clarion Project, headed by Ryan Mauro, seek. On Jihad Watch there also was an Egyptian Muslim who seemed to support Clarion Project and Zuhdi Jasser.

    Maybe we should be realists and not try to fight all Muslims. But instead, as outsiders, try to distinguish between: Muslims who support totalitarian supremacist societal systems, both the followers of Islamic State and such AND those of the Iranian Ayatollah,

    then the vast majority of undecideds, and THEN the truly “tiny minority” of “democratic-minded Muslims” like mayor Aboutaleb, Zuhdi Jasser, Irshad Manji, Qanta Ahmed.

    And we might speculate about a “quality label” for Muslims along those lines. We can give Quality Label I to Muslims who seem a-political, inactive in islam. And Quality label II to “democratic-minded Muslims”.

    This is my hope, because it just seems untenable to me to battle ALL 1,5 billion Muslims, and therefore it seems better to fight only the radical, narrow-minded, actively hostile ones, while trying to seduce many of the others to join the democratic-minded side in opposition to the appalling radical Muslims. As seems to be the goal of Clarion Project.

    • cliffface says

      Sep 7, 2014 at 5:30 am

      Demsci I am sure that myself and many voicing our opinions here and elsewhere have no wish to fight “all the muslims”.
      I know many Muslims who have been forced to leave their homelands and would love to go back but radicals and revolutions have meant having an opinion can be dangerous.
      We probably cannot change what happens in rural Pakistan but we can do our best to expose what is happening in “western” countries such as child brides , honour killings, bonded labour and denial of proper education often carried out by people also receiving and often defrauding the welfare system.
      It is about offering liberty and democracy to all and knowing that their choice is not forced upon them.
      There are many well financed groups using the rigidity of Islam to try and force their views upon others and control and conquer by stealth new grounds in which they can enforce an archaic system of justice called sharia that services few and gives total control to religious zealots.
      If you are happy to be enslaved by a seventh century cult then go ahead.
      Until then fight them till there are no rotten apples left.
      Till muslims with 21st century mentalities expose and disown the radicals they can expect to be viewed as one group.

    • voegelinian says

      Sep 7, 2014 at 3:31 pm

      I’m afraid Demsci will find all too many Jihad Watchers who agree with his incoherently mushy and recklessly naive optimism.

    • gravenimage says

      Sep 7, 2014 at 8:05 pm

      Oh, good grief, Demsci.

      For one thing, no one talks about “fighting all Muslims”.

      But it is also a grave mistake to assume that there are many really ‘moderate’ Muslims.

      You cite Zuhdi Jasser, but he is so much a fringe figure that he was kicked out of his Mosque and has been unable to find another that will take him.

      And he spends far more time trying to assure Infidels that Islam is not a threat than he does confronting his fervid coreligionists. And why not? It’s a lot safer…

      And what about Rotterdam Mayor Ahmed Aboutaleb?

      For one thing, his own cousin is a terrorist:

      “Mild Sentence for Rotterdam Mayor’s Terrorist Cousin”

      http://europenews.dk/en/node/27504

      Of course, one cannot choose one’s own relatives.

      But there’s some disturbing stuff re Aboutaleb himself.

      He apparently has dual citizenship in Morocco as well as the Netherlands, and actually is *still* a member of the High Council there.

      He rushed off to attend a meeting there and missed Veteran’s Day in the Netherlands as a result.

      This represents a conflict of interest at best.

      He also seems to be working for Muslim “family law” in the Netherlands, which is a foot in the door for *Shari’ah law*.

      http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2009/08/peregrinations-of-ahmed-aboutaleb.html

      And your assertion that he is not so different from Geert Wilders is pretty iffy—in fact, Wilders had this to say about Aboutaleb’s appointment (he was not elected) as Rotterdam’s mayor:

      “Appointing a Moroccan as mayor of the second largest Dutch city is just as ridiculous as appointing a Dutchman as mayor of Mecca,” he said.

      Instead, Wilders said, Aboutaleb “should become mayor of Rabat in Morocco.”

      “With him as mayor, Rotterdam will be Rabat on the banks of the river Maas. Soon we may even have an imam serving as arch bishop. This is madness.”

      http://www.expatica.com/de/news/local_news/Wilders-slams-appointment-of-Moroccan-mayor_46765.html

      Over all, I wouldn’t be so quick to assume that his is any sort of ‘moderate’.

      As for him saying anything about the Islamic State, that is not really so “remarkable”. Many Muslims have said that the Islamic State has nothing to do with Islam—this is often Taqiyya and should not necessarily be taken to indicate that they do not share its goals.

      • Demsci says

        Sep 7, 2014 at 9:48 pm

        Hello Gravenimage.

        First of all, I said or meant that JOOST EERDMANS was not all that different from Geert Wilders. Ahmed Aboutaleb is not anything remotely like Wilders. The remarkable thing therefore was that Eerdmans is in cooperation on this reaction to sympathy for Islamic State shown by many Muslims in Holland.

        OK, I stand corrected by you, that nobody wants to figth “all Muslims”. But in the Jerusalem Post a blogger suggested that we should carefully pick our enemies among them and that we should try to seduce the majority as a strategy. I thought of that strategy when I wrote the above.

        But I adhere to what Clarion Project, of Ryan Mauro, and to what Daniel Pipes say. Although I do like to think independently, I only echo how they seem to see the problems with Islam. And I am not sure if they are “reckless”.

        I would love it if I could see that many citizens of democratic countries cultivate a proud identity of being a “Democratic Citizen”, loyal to the constitutions of Democratic Nations,

        You know the 34 or so “Western nations”. Politicians, leaders, writers and citizens that personify that love and loyalty are my very favorite people. And I think Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller and many JW-ers are among them.

        And the worst people I know are a part of the Muslims. the part that openly fights, threathens my beloved democratic system. Both Islamic State and the Iranian Ayatollahs I DETEST. AND BOKO HARAM, HAMAS, the Taliban, Al Qaida, Al Shabaab etc.

        But what is in between? In a hypothetical way I could say: Well, “Bad” Democratic Citizens and “Good” Muslims.

        And I seem unable to prefer “Bad Democratic Citizens” over “Good Muslims”. Because Muslims are all around me in Rotterdam. Colleagues, neighbors, shop-employees, passers by, and many seem nice people, OK? And yes, some of my fellow Democratic Citizens I do NOT like. Instead I do the opposite; preferring “good Muslims” over “Democratic Citizens”.

        And it seems to me, that from a standpoint of a Democratic Loyalist; Aboutaleb and Jasser seem “Good Muslims”. Of course they may deceiving us democratic citizens.

        But then again; it is (many of ) us that demand from them to react in opposition to Islamic State-like Muslims. And this IS what Aboutaleb DID (many times now) saturday, and this IS what Zuhdi Jasser does. Granted, they may not be popular, but an opposition to IS-Muslims DOES seem to exist.

        Of course I like us to implore Muslims to prefer the “good democratic infidels” over the “bad Muslims”, just as I myself prefer “good Muslims” over “bad democratic citizens”.

        And this seems precisely what Aboutaleb and Jasser are doing, because they openly say that they are Muslims but at the same time want Muslims to be loyal to the constitution of democratic nations.

        Anyway, this is my reaction to what Aboutaleb did the other day.

        • Demsci says

          Sep 7, 2014 at 9:51 pm

          Correction: I do the opposite, preferring “good Muslims” over “bad Democratic Citizens”.

        • Demsci says

          Sep 7, 2014 at 10:39 pm

          Clarification; The columnist I spoke about in regard to strategy of Democratic Citizens, or Israel, in response to the Islamic threat was William A. Levinson, and he is blogging in Israel News as Zionist blogger. He wants the Democratic system and Israel to WIN. in the long run. Over totalitarian enemies. The only question is HOW.

          Other clarification; I wholeheartedly agree with the idea that there are moderate Muslims, but there is no moderate Islam. Like Geert Wilders, like even his judges, I agree with the distinction of criticizing Islam and criticizing Muslims.

          But, there do exist Clarion Project, Daniel Pipes, and others who seem to say: Islam is multi-interpretable. It’s fault is vaqueness, ambiguity, incompleteness, obsoleteness.

          And so, we may be able to tolerate those Muslims who INTERPRET Quran-Hadiths-Sira in a more symbolic way, a way more reconcilable with the free, democratic societies we love.

          Of course, hard-core Islamists, and even we ourselves, do suspect, that, once Islam is primarily interpreted in a symbolic way, it is also on it’s way out. You know, from literal to symbolic, to irrelevant.

          And that may be why “literal Muslims” are often so angry about symbolic interpretation of Quran-Hadiths-Sira. But this seems to me to be the direction that Clarion Project, Daniel Pipes and so many commentators on Islam nowadays (like Tony Blair for instance) are going.

        • gravenimage says

          Sep 9, 2014 at 11:21 pm

          Thank you for your lengthy reply, Demsci.

          You wrote:

          Hello Gravenimage…

          OK, I stand corrected by you, that nobody wants to figth “all Muslims”. But in the Jerusalem Post a blogger suggested that we should carefully pick our enemies among them…
          ……………………………..

          With respect, how would we do that? We are not the ones who are holding Muslims in enmity—it is they who are *attacking us*.

          The fact is that in a recent poll it was found that *nearly three-quarters* of Dutch Muslims considered Muslims waging violent Jihad in Syria to be heroes.

          That’s hardly a “tiny minority of extremists”—it is a solid majority.

          http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4129/islamization-belgium-netherlands

          More:

          …and that we should try to seduce the majority as a strategy…
          ……………………………..

          How would that work?

          If most Muslims respected freedom and democracy then being able to live in the very civilized Netherlands would be “seduction” enough.

          After all, I doubt there is talk about having to “seduce” immigrants from the Dutch Antilles and Aruba as there is with Muslims.

          And how would such “seduction” work? What would “filthy Infidels” have to offer Muslims *as Muslims*?

          The fact is that violent Jihad is only part of the threat we face from Muslims.

          They don’t target us as an end in itself; they target us in order to impose Shari’ah law.

          Is part of that “seduction” of Muslims offering them concessions on Shari’ah law?

          It sure seems that way—Shari’ah has made alarming inroads into civilized Dutch law, including the recognition of Shari’ah courts and polygamy.

          In 2006 Minister of Justice Piet Hein Donner said that he would be fine seeing the Netherlands under Shari’ah law.

          This is extremely alarming.

          http://www.pipelinenews.org/2011/oct/10/Islamic-Sharia-Law-in-Germany-Holland-Britain.html

          More:

          And I seem unable to prefer “Bad Democratic Citizens” over “Good Muslims”. Because Muslims are all around me in Rotterdam…
          ……………………………..

          They *sure are*. That great city is now *25% Muslim*.

          No one is saying you should prefer rude Infidels to polite Muslims.

          That being said, you have to consider what their goals are—for all too many Muslims, even those who would personally eschew violence, that means the imposition of Shari’ah.

          Moreover, the larger the percentage of supremacist Muslims in any society, the fewer “good” Muslims you are apt to find. The Netherlands now has a Muslim of about 5.8%—the highest in Europe after France.

          As it grows, you will find that the Muslim population is less and less friendly.

          Muslim-majority states *without exception* oppress and brutalize their Infidel populations—how much is just a matter of degree.

          More:

          And it seems to me, that from a standpoint of a Democratic Loyalist; Aboutaleb and Jasser seem “Good Muslims”. Of course they may deceiving us democratic citizens.
          ……………………………..

          As I have already pointed out, Aboutaleb is current member of the Moroccan government and an advocate of “family law” Shari’ah—this doesn’t sound like a Democratic Loyalist to me.

          More:

          But then again; it is (many of ) us that demand from them to react in opposition to Islamic State-like Muslims. And this IS what Aboutaleb DID (many times now) saturday, and this IS what Zuhdi Jasser does. Granted, they may not be popular, but an opposition to IS-Muslims DOES seem to exist.
          ……………………………..

          ISIS is the “fast Jihad”—stealth Jihadists favor the “slow Jihad”. Are their end goals really very different? This is *hardly* an idle question.

          More:

          Of course I like us to implore Muslims to prefer the “good democratic infidels” over the “bad Muslims”, just as I myself prefer “good Muslims” over “bad democratic citizens”.
          ……………………………..

          With respect, this is *not* the same thing. “Bad democratic citizens” are not living up to the ideal of democracy; whereas it is “bad Muslims” who *are* living up to the tenets of their creed.

          And, as I noted above, *three-quarters* of Muslims in the Netherlands consider these “bad Muslims” to be heroic.

          You can “implore” Muslims all you want, but what do most of them care about the desires of a “filthy Kaffir” such as yourself?

          More:

          And this seems precisely what Aboutaleb and Jasser are doing, because they openly say that they are Muslims but at the same time want Muslims to be loyal to the constitution of democratic nations.
          ……………………………..

          How is Aboutaleb—with his support of Shari’ah—really being loyal?

          More:

          Other clarification; I wholeheartedly agree with the idea that there are moderate Muslims, but there is no moderate Islam…

          But, there do exist Clarion Project, Daniel Pipes, and others who seem to say: Islam is multi-interpretable. It’s fault is vaqueness, ambiguity, incompleteness, obsoleteness.
          ……………………………..

          Respectfully, these two statement contradict each other. If there is no moderate Islam then it is manifestly *not* vague and ambiguous.

          We might hope that it is, but wishing does not make it so.

          I have a great deal of respect for Dr. Pipes on many matters, but I believe he is naïve on the idea of “moderate” Muslims reforming Islam.

          The fact is that this *has never happened”. There have been periods and places where you found a greater preponderance of lax Muslims due to outside influences—but this is *very* different from the development of some sort of more moderate Islam.

          It would be nice if this happened, but there is absolutely no indication that it ever could—sitting around waiting for it as orthodox Islam makes further inroads into our civilized societies is nothing less than suicidal.

          More:

          And so, we may be able to tolerate those Muslims who INTERPRET Quran-Hadiths-Sira in a more symbolic way, a way more reconcilable with the free, democratic societies we love.
          ……………………………..

          There are virtually no pious Muslims who do this.

          More:

          And that may be why “literal Muslims” are often so angry about symbolic interpretation of Quran-Hadiths-Sira. But this seems to me to be the direction that Clarion Project, Daniel Pipes and so many commentators on Islam nowadays (like Tony Blair for instance) are going.
          ……………………………..

          Why does it matter what ‘direction” the Clarion Project, Daniel Pipes, and Tony Blair are going? They are all filthy Infidels, and have no influence over Muslims whatsoever.

          All in all, I think your hoping for a reform of Islam in a fast-Islamizing Europe is entirely unrealistic—especially if you are hoping to see that reform from the likes of the Muslim mayor of Rotterdam.

      • voegelinian says

        Sep 8, 2014 at 4:27 am

        “Because Muslims are all around me in Rotterdam. Colleagues, neighbors, shop-employees, passers by, and many seem nice people, OK? ”

        That provides a deep glimpse into the asymptotic psychology that should not surprise, yet even now in 2014, elicits a frisson of fury, frustration and dismay.

    • Angemon says

      Sep 8, 2014 at 6:42 am

      Demsci posted:

      “I was very positively surprised hearing him say that. To me he clearly is a “democratic-minded Muslim””

      I’m sure there are lots of democratic-minded muslims out there. At least until they manage to vote sharia in.

  11. SpiritOf1683 says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 3:40 am

    This poll is a disgrace. France is supposed to be less than 10% Muslim, yet 16% of French people support ISIS. So that means there is considerable support in France for ISIS amongst its non-Muslims, or it means that France is more than 16% Muslim. To support these savages who made the Nazis look tame by comparison is an insult to those brave men who waded ashore on those Normandy beaches under heavy fire 70 years ago, to free them from the Nazi yoke, and now it seems as if their wish is to live under ISIS, who will impose Sharia law and lop off heads for even the most minor of things. The Waffen SS parades of old down the Champs Elysees won’t look anywhere near as bad as the parade of ISIS. France, you’re going down the plughole, and the native population is every bit as much to blame as its Muslim population for this sorry state of affairs.

  12. Jay Boo says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 4:30 am

    This ill patient is long overdue for an Islamectomie.

  13. Jørgen Moisejeff Berg says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 6:25 am

    1 in 6 french muslims I will believe, but that non-muslim french support ISIS – no way Robert – time for a fact check. …..

    • gravenimage says

      Sep 7, 2014 at 8:12 pm

      It wasn’t the “Islamophobe” Robert Spencer who came up with these figures, but Newsweek—a reputable mainstream news magazine.

      Take it up with them.

  14. fair_dinkum says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 6:26 am

    theyre best known for surrendering

    who really knows what the accurate figures are? too many variables.

    i’m all for it too. as long as they keep killing each other. the main issue will be baghdad ‘the caliph city’.. for it to be a true caliphate, it has to own baghdad.

    the shia militia of 50 000 , and i think the army is mostly shia? and airstrikes from probably the u s … it will be protracted and brutal.
    here’s hoping.

  15. Angemon says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 6:55 am

    France is only 7.5% Muslim

    But 1 in 6 support the IS. I wonder if muslims are disproportionately represented in that pool. It would be enlightening to see a breakdown of those numbers by ethnicity and religion.

  16. Almach says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 7:40 am

    if that’s really true, regardless of which being the result of a poll made for the muslims only or not, it means France needs to do something about it, and they won’t. Unless they vote for Marine Le Pen: now THAT would prove something, it would be the only single action that would show they are ready for change.
    And yes, French Jews, time to leave that poisoned land and make Aliyah.

  17. VultureTX says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 7:44 am

    This was a poll of all residents, not a muslims poll , and asked questions on other subjects as well.

    The facts are online-

    ICM interviewed 3,007 respondents in three countries; GB (1,000), France (1,006) and Germany (1,001) by telephone between 11th-21st July 2014. Surveys were conducted across each country and the results have been weighted to the profile of each nation. ICM is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules.

    GB – respondents were selected by random digit dialling (85% landline, 15% mobile) and interviews were conducted by a live interviewer. Responses were weighted to age, gender, region, social class, tenure, employment and cars in household.

    France – respondents were selected by random digit dialling (80% landline, 20% mobile) and interviews were conducted by a live interviewer. Responses were weighted to age, gender, profession of head of household and Agglomeration category.

    Germany – respondents were selected by random digit dialing (100% landline) and interviews were conducted by an automated voice service (IVR). Responses were weighted to age, gender and region.

    http://www.icmresearch.com/data/media/pdf/New-EU-Comb.pdf

  18. Rajivi says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 9:30 am

    Not without any reason, Saudi had said that the next target of ISIS would be Europe..With this public support in France, ISIS may first takeover France, I suppose.

  19. DiMu says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 9:54 am

    France has been a basket case for a long time now. The sniffy upper classes and the rabble beneath them take us back to the French Revolution, but this time it won’t be ‘egalite, liberte and fraternite’ but ‘obey the minaret’s call to prayer or have your throat cut’.

  20. SpiritOf1683 says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 10:22 am

    “….spiking at 27% for those aged 18-24.”

    There’s more Muslims among the 18-24 age group in France than amongst the 25 and over, and more still in the under-18 age groups. Something like 3 in 10 newborns in France are Muslim babies. Do the maths and you can see where that is leading to.

  21. Jack Holan says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 11:35 am

    After Reading the Gatestone Report of Muslims coming out and not supporting those who want to bite the hand that fed them in Holland it gives a sense that there is hope. I also remember an Imam in Italy considered to be a notable scholar who has gone against the “accepted” Islamic thought process and Fatwa that it is East vs West and anything goes. In the Report there was something very worth mentioning that disturbed me. I never thought of it as us versus 1.5 Billion Muslims. I refuse to believe that this is the mindset of each and everyone. I do believe that if you have .05 of the 1.5 billion very active in the most strict interpretation, acting it out and propagandizing that the perception could very well appear to be that it is all 1.5 billion. For me the jury is still out and will take much more convincing to generalize across the board.

    • gravenimage says

      Sep 9, 2014 at 7:11 pm

      While your “jury is still out” the number of Jihad terror attacks just since 9/11 has now hit 23,795, and is mounting at an ever increasing rate.

      So, take your time…

  22. duh_swami says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 12:32 pm

    Polls by phone…I was once polled by someone who ‘said’ he was from ABC. I knew right away I had no idea, and no control, over what he was writing down, my opinions, or his own…
    Polls are only good for propaganda purposes and are subject to rapid change.
    As far as the percentages of Mahoundians in France…That is unstable, because of continuing immigration and rapid breeding. The percent never goes down, only up…

  23. TH says

    Sep 7, 2014 at 3:21 pm

    The French have a long history of betrayal. In the 16th century before the Battle of Lepanto the French welcomed the Turkish fleet into their main harbor in Marseilles. At the time of the siege of Vienna, when the Pope of the time Blessed Innocent XI, was trying to pull together a coalition of European countries to stop them from advancing on the rest of Europe and also fulfill their stated aim of taking Rome and converting the Vatican into a mosque, the Sun King tried to bribe the Polish diet to prevent King Jan Sobieski from fighting the Turks. Fortunately, the Pope had more money available for bribes than the Sun KIng and Sobieski and his Polish braves saved Europe. Of course, there is the shameful history of the Vichy French in World War II.

    The Franch have never been worthy of trust. Thousands of American lives saved them from being dominated by the Kaiser’s Germany in World War I and and from Hitler in World War II, and De Gaul pulled out of NATO in a sign of “hauteur”, or hubris.

    Not all French will be willing to sit and wait for Islam to take over. So, it is likely that the European civil war between Islam and the natives will begin in France.

    As for Hollande, he won the election due to the muslim vote and it seems that they are the only ones who continue to support him.

    • dumbledoresarmy says

      Sep 7, 2014 at 6:20 pm

      “The French have never been worthy of trust”.

      NEVER?

      That’s a pretty sweeping dismissal of an entire nation-state across many different eras of history.

      Aren’t you forgetting, a bit further back in time, but still France, a certain Charles Martel at Tours/ Poitiers?

      And another Frenchman, Jean de Parisot de Vallette, who, in 1565, at the head of the Knights of St John, managed to prevent the Turkish Ottoman Muslim fleet from taking Malta?

      Or the French naval captain who heard the cry for help and came to the rescue of the embattled Armenian Christian contingent whose tale is told in the book “Forty Days of Musa Dargh”, laying down a covering fire from his ship, so that they could escape from the Turkish Muslims who were besieging them?

      Or don’t *those* Frenchmen count, for you? Are you *only* going to count betrayals and failures, and claim that *they* and they alone are the *real* France – a France beneath contempt , to be despised and dismissed – whilst ignoring *other* less shameful persons and episodes?

      Right now, instead of beating our French lurkers (I bet we have them) over the head with the memory of failures and betrayals (which can be found aplenty in the history of *every* Western nation, especially when it comes to the decidedly ad-hoc attempts at self-defence against jihad, past and present), I’d rather remind them of the *heroes* they *do* have, in the hope of spurring them on to *emulate* those heroes.

      For Catholic French, I’d invoke the memory of their warrior saints – St Martin of Tours, St Michael, St Louis, and Jeanne d’Arc.

      To any Islamo-aware French non-Muslim now reading this, or who may lob in here in future, I say: go to the tomb of Charles Martel in St Denis (take a large group, because that part of Paris, at present, is infested with dangerous Muslims) and swear on that tomb, to the memory of Charles, and the memory of Jean de Valette, that you will resist Islam and resist the Islamisation of France. Or make your oath of defiance in the very field at Poitiers where Charles Martel repelled the Muslims, all those centuries ago.

      • gravenimage says

        Sep 9, 2014 at 7:14 pm

        Hear, hear!

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