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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Rabbi Reuven Firestone, President Elect of International Qur’anic Studies Association, wrongly rebukes Pamela Geller, claims Qur’an not anti-Semitic

Sep 30, 2014 4:59 pm By Robert Spencer

AFDI Islamic Jewhatred adAnd he twists himself, as well as the Qur’an, into pretzels to make his case. “Rabbi Reuven Firestone is Professor of medieval Judaism and Islam at Hebrew Union College in Los Angeles and Senior Fellow of the Center for Religion and Civic Culture at the University of Southern California. He is author of Jihad: The Origin of Holy War in Islam and is President Elect of the International Qur’anic Studies Association.”

This is a good example of how someone who must be deeply familiar with the contents of the Qur’an convinces himself that he doesn’t see what he sees, or that he does see it but it doesn’t matter, despite the fact that Muslims worldwide behave as if they read the Qur’an as anti-Semitic every day. They’re just more misunderstanders of Islam, and Reuven Firestone is here to set them straight. Notice, however, that he isn’t talking to them; rather, he is writing in the Jewish Daily Forward to attack Pamela Geller and our AFDI ad that asserts that Islamic Jew-hatred is in the Qur’an. In other words, he is not trying to convince anti-Semitic Muslims that they’re misreading the Qur’an; he is just trying to reassure Leftist Jews that they need not subscribe to a view that in their eyes is ipso facto “racist” and “bigoted.” Comments interspersed below.

“No, Pamela Geller, the Qur’an Is Not Anti-Semitic,” by Reuven Firestone, Jewish Daily Forward, September 29, 2014:

Soon you will see ads, courtesy of Pamela Geller, in the New York City subway system that state, “Islamic Jew-Hatred: It’s in the Qur’an.”

Is she right?

It’s easy to understand why many Jews might think so. Anti-Semitism has become a frightening force in much of the Muslim world, and a recent Anti-Defamation League study has shown that anti-Semitism is more common in Muslim majority countries than in any other region identified by religion, culture or geography. Muslims need to address this problem for many reasons, not least of which is that anti-Semitism reflects deep ignorance and a willingness to be manipulated by simplistic propaganda that is harmful to Muslims as well as Jews.

But anti-Semitism is not found in the Qur’an.

So if anti-Semitism is not found in the Qur’an, what accounts for all this anti-Semitism? Why has anti-Semitism “become a frightening force in much of the Muslim world”? If it isn’t religion-based, it must be because of Israel. This is a clue as to why American Jews overwhelmingly supported Obama in two presidential elections, despite his obviously negative view of Israel: they accept “Palestinian” propaganda, believe that Israel is guilty of atrocities, are embarrassed by that fact, and genuinely believe that if Israel is pressured and makes concessions to the “Palestinians,” peace will ensue. The idea that there will never be peace between Israel and the “Palestinians” because of core Islamic beliefs rooted in the Qur’an is to their mind bigoted and racist (again), and thus not even to be considered.

This may be difficult to fathom given the recent heated public discussion. Some people cite what appear to be obviously angry and seemingly hateful negative references to Jews in the Qur’an. Others argue that these verses are taken out of context. They cite counter-verses from the same Qur’an that appear to respect Jews and even refer to Jews using the same positive language reserved for followers of Muhammad.

Firestone decries simple answers, but unfortunately, the answer to his conundrum here is simple: the Qur’an speaks positively about Jews who accept Muhammad as a prophet and become Muslims, and negatively about those who don’t. The Qur’an makes this clear when it says that “those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings” (98:6). Who are “those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture”? They are the Christians and Jews who do not become Muslims. The Tafsir al-Jalalayn explains: “Before his [that is, Muhammad’s] arrival they had all agreed to believe in him when he would come; then those who disbelieved in him from among them became envious of him.” The passages about Jews and Christians being saved refers to Jews and Christians who become Muslims, while those who remain Jews and Christians are “the worst of created beings.” In his commentary on 5:69, Ibn Kathir makes this clear, telling Jews and Christians that they will have “no real religion until you adhere to and implement the Tawrah [Torah] and the Injil [Gospel]. That is, until you believe in all the Books that you have that Allah revealed to the Prophets. These Books command following Muhammad and believing in his prophecy, all the while adhering to his Law.”

So what’s the real story? As usual, the issue is not so simple, and many on both sides of the debate do us all a disservice with their hyperbole and naïve arguments.

I have no doubt whatsoever that Rabbi Firestone will ignore this post, but it would be refreshing were he to explain how the simple explanation I have just given above for the differing tone of various references to the Jews in the Qur’an is wrong, and show where the Qur’an speaks positively about Jews who do not accept Muhammad as a prophet. In fact, he confirms my argument as he goes on, for he explains at some length how the Qur’an’s negative passages toward the Jews stem from their rejection of the new religion:

Yes, the Qur’an contains verses that refer negatively to Jews. In order to understand these verses, we must read them both in relation to the fullness of the scripture in which they are located (synchronically), and also in relation to how other scriptures treat non-believers (diachronically).

Let’s start with the synchronic reading. Negative references to Jews in the Qur’an occur in relation to negative references to other communities, all of which opposed the emergence of the new Arabian prophet and his revelation. The Jewish communities of Arabia, like the Christian, Zoroastrian and native polytheist communities, did not accept the prophetic status of Muhammad. A few individual Jews and Christians joined his movement, but when they did they voted themselves out of their native religious communities.

This is a natural occurrence. No established religion is willing to discard the canon of its own scripture in order to accept a new prophet with a new revelation. Islam fits into this pattern as well, since it refuses to accept the prophetic status of new divine messengers who emerged out of its own tradition, such as the prophets of the Baha’i faith or the Ahmadiyya.

The Jews of Arabia were greatly respected and influential in Arabia during Muhammad’s lifetime. Because of their status, their refusal as a community to acknowledge his prophethood was a major impediment to the new movement and was condemned by the Qur’an as obstinacy, and hard-headedness. The Qur’an criticizes local Jews, for example, when it states, “Many of the People of the Book would like to turn you back to unbelievers after your having believed, because of envy on their part after the truth has become clear to them” (Q.2:109).

Established religions are never welcoming to new religions, and the disappointment, resentment and anger of newly emerging religions toward established religions that refuse to embrace them is found in all monotheistic scriptures. Many are familiar with the negative references to Jews in parts of the New Testament such as Matthew 23 and John 8. As in the Qur’an, these texts reflect the shock and resentment of those believing in a new redemptive and charismatic leader. They simply could not understand why members of established religions would refuse to join their program.

Negative references to Jews in both scriptures reflect reactive anger and zealous resentment. They do not represent a program to vilify, demonize or scapegoat Jews.

Yet throughout the history of Christianity, some Christians have taken passages of the New Testament precisely as constituting “a program to vilify, demonize or scapegoat Jews.” They always faced opposition, and finally when the Catholic Church definitively rejected anti-Semitism at the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965), which was itself the culmination of centuries of intellectual and spiritual evolution on this issue, these interpretations became far less prevalent than they once had been. And certainly throughout the history of Islam, some Muslims have taken passages of the Qur’an as constituting “a program to vilify, demonize or scapegoat Jews.” Not only has no significant Muslim authority ever repudiated these interpretations, but they have been reinforced in modern times. Andrew Bostom notes:

Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi wrote these words in his 700 page treatise rationalizing Muslim Jew hatred, Banu Isra’il fi al-Qur’an wa al-Sunna [Jews in the Qur’an and the Traditions], originally published in the late 1960s, and early 1970s, and then re-issued in 1986/87:

[The] Qur’an describes the Jews with their own particular degenerate characteristics, i.e. killing the prophets of Allah, corrupting His words by putting them in the wrong places, consuming the people’s wealth frivolously, refusal to distance themselves from the evil they do, and other ugly characteristics caused by their deep-rooted lasciviousness…only a minority of the Jews keep their word….[A]ll Jews are not the same. The good ones become Muslims, the bad ones do not. (Qur’an 3:113)

Tantawi was apparently rewarded for this scholarly effort by being named Grand Imam of Al-Azhar University in 1996, a position he still holds. [Tantawi died in 2010.]

When people with such great influence and authority as the leaders of the Catholic Church say the New Testament has no program to vilify, demonize or scapegoat Jews, many Christians listen. When people with such great influence and authority as the Grand Sheikh of al-Azhar say that the Qur’an has a program to vilify, demonize or scapegoat Jews, many Muslims listen.

Jews are naturally sensitive to negative references to Jews in other scriptures, but are usually unaware of the same phenomenon of othering in their own scripture. The Hebrew Bible is full of reactive anger and zealous resentment toward competing religious communities. Canaanites, Egyptians and other members of established religious peoples are depicted repeatedly in the Hebrew Bible as spiteful, wicked and mortal enemies of ancient Israel. But most of those portrayed as evil opponents were simply members of established religions who felt threatened by Israelite successes in conquest and expansion. Like the Jews and Christians of Arabia, they opposed the emergence of a new, competitive religious community. The Israelite claims to being God’s chosen people with an exclusive relationship with the one God of the universe (who happened to be called the God of Israel!) could only have added to the tension.

This is just special pleading. The Jewish scriptures contain no open-ended, universal command to believers to wage war against and subjugate unbelievers, comparable to the Qur’an’s command to Muslims to fight and subjugate the “People of the Book” (9:29).

These are all cases of the natural tension that occurs with the birth of new religions. Established religions resent and oppose them — just think of “cults” as new religions in order to understand the mindset. Like the Hebrew Bible and New Testament, the Qur’an includes material that reflects this frustration. It does not express anti-Semitism, Jew-hatred or racism.

The Qur’an says that Allah transformed the disobedient Jews into apes and pigs (2:63-65; 5:59-60; 7:166) and that unbelievers are like animals (8:55) and the most vile of created beings (98:6). There are no comparable statements about the unbelievers being vile in Jewish or Christian scriptures. It is hard to read such passages and not think that they inculcate anti-Semitism, Jew-hatred and racism, and when we see Islamic spokesmen referring to Jews as “apes and pigs” or “sons of apes and pigs” (including Egypt’s former Muslim Brotherhood President Mohammed Morsi), it is clear that all too many Muslims today read them that way as well.

Anti-Semitism is caused by different forces, which scapegoat Jews by manipulating people through deceitful deflection of criticism onto Jews. Those who engage in the deception use anything they can to further their aims, including scripture. Negative scriptural references to non-believers exist in all scriptures, and they are sometimes cited and manipulated by hateful people to encourage violence and even slaughter of the religious other. But it’s important for Jews to understand that anti-Semitism is no more basic to Islam than hatred of all non-Jews is basic to Judaism, an old anti-Semitic screed that was often claimed by citing scriptural citations from the Hebrew Bible.

Once again, it would be refreshing if Rabbi Firestone would back up this claim by producing a passage from the Hebrew Bible comparable to Qur’an 9:29, in commanding believers to fight against unbelievers and make them submit to the believers’ hegemony, or anything in Jewish tradition comparable to this hadith: “Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.” (Sahih Muslim 6985)

Many writings single out and disparage particular communities, and any kind of “othering” is problematic. We need to be able to distinguish between normal even if problematic cases, and those that are truly hateful and absolutely unacceptable cases of racism, anti-Semitism or Islamophobia. Reacting to every negative reference to Jews as anti-Semitic is unwise, simplistic and dangerous. Don’t be fooled by frightened people into the naïve and simplistic conclusion that any negative reference to Jews is anti-Semitism.

“Islamophobia.” Using a trumped-up propaganda term that Muslim Brotherhood entities in the U.S. use in order to intimidate people into thinking that there is something wrong with resisting jihad terror doesn’t speak well of Firestone’s judgment.

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Filed Under: Islamic antisemitism, Useful idiots, willful ignorance Tagged With: featured


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Comments

  1. IQ al Rassooli says

    Sep 30, 2014 at 5:46 pm

    As usual and as you well know, no matter how many facts are shown to those whose mind is caught in the vice of their wrong perceptions, they will not change it

    What I find disturbing and offensive are the positions this ignoble and stupid (NOT ignorant since he refuses to face facts and reality) person holds

    The only other ‘scripture’ comparable in Jew hatred to Muhammad’s Quran is Hitler’s Mein Kampf

    Both Hitler and Muhammad wanted world domination through oppression, subjugation, terror and genocide. Only 1400 years separated Der Fuhrer from Der prophet otherwise their psychopathy is identical

    The so called professor above should be dismissed from ALL his positions since he knows as much about Muhmmad’s Quran as a pig’s knowledge of the science of personal hygiene

    IQ al Rassooli
    Kafir & Proud!

    • Jacksonl03 says

      Sep 30, 2014 at 7:50 pm

      Very well said.

      It’s always interesting to read and think through intellectual discussions as above–I generally learn something new when I take the time to review such analysees line by line–but common sense prevails: The Quran says what it says and a huge percentage of Muslims believe it word-for-word, albeit a smaller (but significant) percentage actually acts out what it instructs them to do. The larger share of believers will do nothing to prevent the resulting mayhem.

      Of course similar comments can be made about the bible and other scriptures and many atrocities of the past may logically attributed to these. However, the difference is that that was then and this is now and Islam is the current problem worldwide and worsening. We better quite dissembling, get off our asses and do something positive about it.

    • mortimer says

      Sep 30, 2014 at 11:55 pm

      Totally correct. There is actually MORE Jew-hatred in the Koran than in Mein Kampf.

      Firestone needs to read the THESIS of the previous Grand Imam of Al-Azhar Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi. He graduated from Al-Azhar University’s Faculty of Religious Studies in 1958, and received his Ph.D. in 1966. Tantawi’s Ph.D., thesis “Banu Israil fi al-Quran wa-al-Sunnah” (Jews in the Koran and the Traditions) was published in 1968-69, and re-published in 1986.

      Firestone needs to count the amount of text in both books that demean Jews. He obviously has not done his homework.

      More to the point, most Muslims SEETHE with Jew hatred when you scratch the surface. Firestone is duped by his contacts in interfaith dialogue. They are mendacious taqiyya-artists!

      Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi knew MORE ABOUT JEW HATRED IN ISLAM than FIRESTONE! Tantawi was the HEAD OF THE ISLAMIC WORLD!

      Who is the rabbi trying to kid?

      • mortimer says

        Oct 1, 2014 at 12:03 am

        Firestone should read this…

        Tantawi wrote the following words in his 700 page treatise rationalizing Muslim Jew hatred:

        “[The] KORAN DESCRIBES THE JEWS with their own PARTICULAR DEGENERATE characteristics, i.e. killing the prophets of Allah [Koran 2:61/ 3:112], corrupting His words by putting them in the wrong places, consuming the people’s wealth frivolously, refusal to distance themselves from the evil they do, and other ugly characteristics caused by their deep-rooted lasciviousness…only a minority of the Jews keep their word {Koranic citations here]….[A]ll Jews are not the same. The good ones become Muslims {Koran 3:113], the bad ones do not.”

        Tantawi was apparently rewarded for this scholarly effort by being named Grand Imam of Al-Azhar University in 1996.

        Tantawi’s statements on dialogue, which were issued shortly after he met with the Chief Rabbi of Israel, Jacob Lau, in Cairo, on December 15, 1997, provided him another opportunity to re-affirm his ongoing commitment to the views expressed about Jews in his Ph.D. thesis:

        “…anyone who avoids meeting with the enemies in order to counter their dubious claims and STICK FINGERS INTO THEIR EYES, is a coward. My stance STEMS FROM ALLAH’S BOOK [the Koran], MORE THAN ONE-THIRD of which deals with the Jews…[I] wrote a dissertation dealing with them [the Jews], all their false claims and their punishment by Allah. I STILL BELIEVE EVERYTHING WRITTEN IN THAT DISSERTATION…” [i.e., Jews in the Koran and the Traditions/Sunna]

        Firestone needs to wise up and actually read what LEADING MUSLIMS SAY!

        Firestone is fantasizing.

      • rabrooks says

        Oct 1, 2014 at 6:19 am

        Actually, how much is he getting paid?

      • Zerg says

        Oct 1, 2014 at 12:45 pm

        Here’s the thing, the only Muslims the Rabbi probably knows are those smooth talking types that lie to his face and tell him what he wants to hear. And being a liberal, he’s too lazy to examine the source material.

        As a liberal he hates Westerners critical of 3rd world people and their values. So of course Spencer and Geller are on his bad people list.

  2. Richie says

    Sep 30, 2014 at 5:56 pm

    According to the leftists and conspiracy nuts, the ones behind the Jew hatred…are the Jews. These are the same leftists and Muslims who think the Jews carried out the Holocaust and 9/11

  3. Beagle says

    Sep 30, 2014 at 5:58 pm

    Yes, the Qur’an contains verses that refer negatively to Jews. In order to understand these verses, we must read them both in relation to the fullness of the scripture in which they are located (synchronically), and also in relation to how other scriptures treat non-believers (diachronically).
    — —
    Good thing the average Muslim specializes in synchronic exegesis, or else one might think Firestone just admitted the point of the ad with, “the Quran contains passages which refer negatively to Jews.”

    Diachronically speaking, being last in time, only Islamic scripture can or does refer negatively to Christians and Jews. Amalekites (if they existed) might have a similar complaint about Jews that all non-Muslims may legitimately have with Islam. But again, there is this pesky thing called time and not being able to travel willy-nilly back into it.

    • voegelinian says

      Oct 2, 2014 at 2:28 pm

      According to the 19th century historian and Arabist Aloys Sprenger on page 15 (footnote 1) of his work The Life of Mohammed, Muslim tradition has it that the Amalekites of Old Testament times (cf. Exodus 17:8-16) were once “sole masters of Mecca” and had rebuilt the Ka’aba!

      Shades of Ishmael!

      (His sources for these startling claims are the Kashaf tafsir and something he cites as “Azraqy apud Fasy” [“apud” is Latin for “according to”] — the former possibly referring to a 7th century Muslim leader named Nafi’ ibn al-Azraq.)

  4. Judi says

    Sep 30, 2014 at 6:00 pm

    Another Judenrat!

    • Mirren10 says

      Oct 1, 2014 at 7:10 am

      Judenrat/kapo.

      Some people will *never* learn.

  5. Mark Goldberg says

    Sep 30, 2014 at 6:24 pm

    Happy to see your sober, blunt and accurate reportage and commentary. I was sent the article from the Jewish Forward and penned a reply last night but the comments sections had only limited reply allowance. I couldn’t help but send it off to Pam Geller, simply to let her know that she’s not alone and her efforts in regards to this distortion of her ( and your) work will not go unchallenged.

    I note that there was no email address that I could find at the Forward to even send my comment to that writer, but I was happy to see that many people basically called him out but good for his dissimulation, historical distortions, and worse.

  6. gerard says

    Sep 30, 2014 at 6:40 pm

    “Qur’an not anti-Semitic”
    Oh dear!
    Oh dear!
    Oh dear!
    More and more we see the separation of the sheep from the goats.
    The division between those who are on the side of good and those who are on the side of evil. The Theresa Mays who support Islam and the Geert Wilders who do not. The Goebbels who defend Nazism and the Bonhoeffers and Kolbes who do not.
    It seems to matter little to the Theresa Mays that millions will die because of their deliberate obtuseness.
    Even (some) Rabbis seem to be happy to put their necks in the noose. What they should reflect on is that it is not only their own necks that will stretch.

  7. Bill says

    Sep 30, 2014 at 7:15 pm

    Crap, Am I really reading this stuff? Ignore history and suffer. Wake up America. Just proves common sense, not so common.

  8. Tradewinds says

    Sep 30, 2014 at 7:25 pm

    It’s a real shame to have lying Rabbis. It’s also a real shame to have lying popes and bishops. What is the deal with Jewish and Christian leaders defending a Jew/Christian-hating mass-murder ideology, Islam? I simply don’t get it.

    • Champ says

      Sep 30, 2014 at 7:58 pm

      Spot on comment! …and I don’t get it either, Tradewinds!

      • Tradewinds says

        Sep 30, 2014 at 11:17 pm

        What’s wrong with these fools, Champ?

    • gravenimage says

      Oct 1, 2014 at 4:44 pm

      Tradewinds and Champ, these fools—just like their secular counterparts—are mostly in deep denial.

      They don’t want to see the threat because it is just too disturbing in its implications.

      So much “better” to pretend that the only ones concerned by mushrooming Islamic savagery are “Islamophobes”.

      A very few of them are actually complicit in this evil, but most just want to pretend it doesn’t exist.

      You saw very similar denial about the threat of Fascism before WWII, where people like Winston Churchill who were trying to sound the alarm were routinely derided as “warmongers”—as though recognizing a threat were the same as presenting a threat!

      There were lots of tools just like Rabbi Firestone at the time.

    • voegelinian says

      Oct 2, 2014 at 2:44 pm

      It could well be that the explanation for this Mass Hypnosis & Kool-Ade Festival we see throughout the West among so many Jewish, Christian, Agnostic and Atheist people goes beyond mere PC MC impulses due to PC MC being mainstream, and we may have to add another explanation, which we may call “Collective Memory of the PTSD of Dhimmitude and/or Terror”.

      Bill Warner is the only analyst I know who has suggested this — that the West has been in a kind of PTSD shock after the 1,000 years during which Muslims terrorized the West (a massive fact of Western history most Westerners never learn). The denial resulting from this PTSD syndrome was then further enabled by the serendipitous historical fact that the West rose to global ascendancy beginning in the 17th century (and progressing spectacularly with each passing century after that), leaving Islam in the dust in that regard — thus rendering its former Nemesis largely forgettable and seemingly irrelevant in terms of a Modern World which those quaint Oriental Muslims were increasingly lagging behind in their charmingly backward ways; and so forth.

      Little did the West realize (but should have realized) that Muslims all along were seething, hoping, praying, plotting & and planning for a Pan-Islamic Revival. And a concatenation of various factors and events in the 20th century made such a Revival possible — with a spectacular spark of a catalyst touched off on 9/11/01, surely filling all Muslims of the world with inspiration and joy (most of them feigning neutrality or limp-wristed loophole-ridden condemnation), and logically unfolding in the “Arab Spring” and more recently the orgasmically audacious realization of the ISIS Caliphate.

  9. vlparker says

    Sep 30, 2014 at 7:35 pm

    Another dhimmi dummy in a world full of dhimmi dummies.

  10. David, Thailand says

    Sep 30, 2014 at 7:45 pm

    Liberal Jews are and always have been the worst enemies of the Jews.

  11. jewdog says

    Sep 30, 2014 at 8:08 pm

    One major difference between Islam and Christianity is the latter’s willingness and even encouragement of self-criticism. This means that problematic passages or beliefs in Christianity can be aired and critically analyzed in the light of the overall Judeo-Christian ethic of universal brotherhood, a tradition stemming from Genesis 1:26-7 where G-d creates mankind in His image. No such notion sanctifying all of mankind exists in Islam, which divides humans into good believers and bad unbelievers (as in 98:6). That’s why Nostra Aetate could never have originated from an Islamic authority, but could come from Vatican II.
    As for Islamic anti-Semitism, I think Raymond Ibrahim is correct when he points out that increased literacy and the internet have led more Muslims in modern times to read and absorb the hateful messages in the Koran. That explains the increase in Jew hatred over what was found in Medieval days when there was much more ignorance of the sources.
    One last point on American Jews. Their life experiences have led them to see all conflicts in terms of discrimination, so it’s natural for them to think that jihad stems from resentment over discrimination. This is simply the Jewish Mirror Image Fallacy. The answer is more education about Islam.

  12. eduardo odraude says

    Sep 30, 2014 at 8:17 pm

    This professor puts forth his views, which is fine, but he seems unforgivably inconsiderate or out-to-lunch in that he doesn’t seem to care or notice that most of those who disagree with him are not publicly able, as he is, to espouse their views. Many are silenced by the fact that there are rather significant numbers of people who have made clear they will kill people — and have already done so — if those people criticize Islam and Muhammad. Others make clear that anyone who criticizes Islam will be called racist and bigot and ostracized, fired from their jobs if possible. Meanwhile, the professor — too obtuse apparently to notice that most of his opponents, if they wish to speak publicly, must pay a far higher price than he does for the privilege — imagines that most people agree with his position, because, after all, hardly anyone publicly speaks against his views. It’s somewhat analogous to the lack of public criticism to be heard in the Soviet Union — some boobs asserted the Soviet Union must not be too bad, after all most voices in the USSR proclaim its wonders, and we hear almost no criticism. The place must not be too bad!

    The honorable thing for the professor to do would be to provide a voice for the silenced — or else refuse to speak about the matter as long as those who disagree with him have been silenced. But the professor is too out-to-lunch. Here’s proof, a list of links to news stories about people and institutions that have silenced themselves in relation to Islam, because of death threats and violence coming from Muslims.

  13. citycat says

    Sep 30, 2014 at 8:47 pm

    The internet has also allowed some muslims to see the truth and apostatise.
    It is a necessary path for mankind to tread to expose all that evil writing.

    • jewdog says

      Sep 30, 2014 at 8:58 pm

      Correct, and in the long run, which can be very long, increased internet and education could lead to a sort of Islamic Enlightenment, which could ultimately kill Islam if it can’t be reformed.

      • citycat says

        Sep 30, 2014 at 9:42 pm

        Yeah, i think the speed of the flow of knowledge might increase on that score- hopefully gather momentum before it is all controlled

  14. David says

    Sep 30, 2014 at 9:31 pm

    I disagree with this campaign. I don’t want to offend the 10% of the world’s Muslims who aren’t hostile to Jews. Muhammad Ali even attended his grandson’s Bar Mitzvah.

    It depends on the verse of the Koran that you look at. Regardless, there are Muslim imans who aren’t hostile to Jews so I don’t see the point of this.

    What I would emphasize about Islam is how often it has been used as
    justification for violence. How can the attacks of the Barbary Pirates be considered a defensive war? How can the attacks on Vienna be described as a defensive war? How can the the attacks and capture of Constantinople be described as defensive?

    • pumbar says

      Sep 30, 2014 at 10:07 pm

      They didn’t need to be defensive. There was a Caliph in place at the time so offensive Jihad (when isn’t it “offensive”?) was hunky-dory.

    • Tradewinds says

      Sep 30, 2014 at 11:22 pm

      How do you know how many Muslims aren’t hostile to Jews? As the Koran orders Muslims to hate “the worst enemies of the believers” (Jews) I say they are ALL hostile to Jews. They hate Christians too, but their most vicious enmity is reserved for Jews, the “descendants of apes and pigs” (see Koran).

      • David says

        Sep 30, 2014 at 11:31 pm

        Just a guess about the 10%. I just see the Quran citing as counterproductive. I think the best thing to cite is what the Barbary Pirates told Jefferson when they seized the American ships. That makes it very clear the aggressiveness of Islam and that Islamic aggression has been going on for a long time.

        • Beagle says

          Oct 1, 2014 at 1:29 am

          Sure, we all have ideas for ad campaigns with respect to Islam. The point here is that any voices critical of Islam are attacked mercilessly from every major institution in the US, and yet the US is nowhere near the bottom of the barrel. As yet, nobody is executed for it. Though our president did say “The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam.”

          I think the Churchill quote about the “most retrograde force in the world” is always good. John Quincy Adams ‘got it’. There are dozens of Orientalists whose work is now samizdat who made many pellucid (Andrew Bostom loves that word in this context) remarks about Islam.

          JQA is quoted at length in this article:
          http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=7&article=1142

          A taste:
          The precept of the koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force (Blunt, 29:274).
          — —
          Nailed it! He understood the nature of jihad’s escalating force dependent upon the strength of the Muslims at the time and dissimulation being a critical part of Islam. Allah is the “greatest of deceivers” after all.

        • Tradewinds says

          Oct 1, 2014 at 7:56 am

          Citing the Koran is “counterproductive?” You’ve got to be kidding! Since the Mohammedans justify their atrocities by citing the texts and teachings of Islam I suppose we can, too. In fact, the more citing the better as it shows people just where the Muslims’ bad behavior comes from – their war manual disguised as a “holy” book.

        • Mirren10 says

          Oct 1, 2014 at 8:12 am

          Where do you think the Barbary pirates got the information they told Jefferson ? From the koran.

          Why do you see citing the koran as ‘counter productive’ ?

          **All** mohammedans believe the koran. *All* mohammedan murderers quote from it, to justify what they do. So what on earth is your point ?

        • eduardo odraude says

          Oct 1, 2014 at 7:32 pm

          In the Middle East, far more than 10% of Muslims have a problem with Jews. You are probably thinking of Muslims born in the West who live as minorities. At that stage, the faith is relatively quiescent toward its enemies, because the Muslim leadership, most of which does have a problem with Jews, realize that Muslims are too weak to to do much to go on the attack much.

    • gravenimage says

      Oct 1, 2014 at 6:38 pm

      David wrote:

      I disagree with this campaign. I don’t want to offend the 10% of the world’s Muslims who aren’t hostile to Jews. Muhammad Ali even attended his grandson’s Bar Mitzvah.
      …………………………………..

      Good grief—is this what it’s come down to—that we don’t dare tell the truth about genocidal antisemitism because one Muslim convert went to relative’s Bar Mitzvah?

      And in the not-to-distant past, hopeful Infidels would have claimed that it was the majority of Muslims who had no hostility toward Jews—now even someone as optimistic as David pegs it at a paltry 10%.

      And what will happen if those few Muslims are “offended” by hearing the truth about Islamic antisemitism? The unspoken fear is that if we acknowledge that Islam is murderously hateful of Jews, that *we* will cause murderous Jew hatred.

      This is the usual—the idea that admitting that violent Jihad exists will *cause* violent Jihad. And that if we are good dhimmis that it won’t happen—from up to 10% of the Muslim population, at least…

      Does this even make sense? Let’s say that someone said that your beliefs were intrinsically hostile to some group.

      If you are a civilized person, you would probably take a hard look at your beliefs to see if you agreed that this was the case.

      If you disagreed, you might be indeed be offended—but what form would that “offense” take? Would you then become violent toward members of that group, as your groups’ critic just claimed, thus proving his point? Of course not.

      More:

      It depends on the verse of the Koran that you look at. Regardless, there are Muslim imans who aren’t hostile to Jews so I don’t see the point of this.
      …………………………………..

      The few verses of the Qur’an that are not hostile to Jews have all been abrogated. Every Imam knows this.

      And do you have examples of Imams who aren’t hostile to Jews? What do they say to their congregations, as opposed to credulous Infidels?

      And here’s the same assumption, in any case—that if you dare admit that Islam is oppressive and violent, that you will cause Muslims—in this case, these few temporarily non-hostile Imams—to preach oppression and violence.

      One might ask why these good Imams are not instead busy educating their coreligionists about how their antisemitic interpretation of the Qur’an is wrong—instead of being poised to do just the same themselves if Infidels don’t stay quiet?

      More:

      What I would emphasize about Islam is how often it has been used as
      justification for violence. How can the attacks of the Barbary Pirates be considered a defensive war? How can the attacks on Vienna be described as a defensive war? How can the the attacks and capture of Constantinople be described as defensive?
      …………………………………..

      Who says *any* of this was defensive? Under a Caliphate—as existed at the time—violent Jihad does not have to be defensive, but can be offensive.

      And anyone who pays the least attention can see just how absurd the claim that all Jihad is “defensive” now is, in any case—how is enslaving school girls in Nigeria “defensive”? How is butchering sleeping families in Israel “defensive”? How is beheading journalists and aid workers in the Islamic State “defensive”?

      And what about the clear link to the Qur’an in the aggression you cite above?

      This is what the ambassador from Tripoli had to say when Thomas Jefferson and John Adams inquired by what right the Barbary states preyed upon American shipping, enslaving both crews and passengers:

      “it was written in the Koran, that all Nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make Slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.”

      So the inspiration for all this Islamic savagery comes straight from the Qur’an and the other texts of Islam—ignoring this salient fact in the desperate hope that this might mean that 10% of Mohammedans may not hurt us seems pretty questionable.

      • gravenimage says

        Oct 1, 2014 at 6:46 pm

        “Not-to-distant” should, of course, have been “not-too-distant”.

  15. Joyce Willis says

    Oct 1, 2014 at 1:19 am

    After reading the Koran/Qur’an and studying the life of Islam’s founder, Muhammad, I can say with certainty that Islam is a murderous, fascist, supremacist ideology akin to Nazism. Muslims are trapped in that evil ideology and I hope and pray that one day they will become enlightened and be freed and see the light and truth of Christianity.

    _*Islamism = Nazism with Religious Rituals*_
    Both ideologies share numerous major features:
    *(1)* Their founders created the ideologies to get their followers to kill and die for them.

    *(2)* Their founders wrote books, *_Mein Kampf_* and the *_Koran_* respectively, that embody the ideologies and justify aggressive warfare against those deemed inferior. Here is but one of many examples from the latter:

    • Sura 9.29: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax [jizya, dhimmi tax] in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

    *(3)* Both ideologies claim the right to rule the entire world, as in “Today Germany, tomorrow the world” and “Islam will dominate the world.”

    • Here is a video of a demonstration in London where Islamists say they will rule the world, call for the bombing of Denmark, and add that they will take infidel women as war booty. The demonstration adds threats of another 7/7, the terrorist subway bombings in the UK.

    • The context of the Takbir (Arabic for “Allah akbar!”) in this demonstration comes across like the *_“Heil Hitler!”_* of the 1930s.

    *(4)* Both ideologies define their own members as racially or religiously superior Herrenvolk; the Master Race. These are *_Aryans_* and the *_Dar-al-Islam_* (House of Islam) respectively, and the latter encompasses only the “right” kinds of Muslims.

    *(5)* Both ideologies define outsiders as Untermenschen (subhumans) whom the Master Race is free to kill, rape, rob, and/or enslave. Nazism defined Jews, Slavs, Gypsies, homosexuals, and Black people as Untermenschen.

    Islamism’s _*kafirs_* or infidels include Jews, Christians, Hindus, Baha’is, and the wrong kinds of Muslims. Sunnis regard Shiites as Untermenschen, and vice versa.

    • Kafirs and infidels are all part of the *_Dar-al-Harb_* (House of War), which means Islamism has openly declared war on the entire non-Islamic world. This includes, of course, the wrong kinds of Muslims.

    • ISIS demands the *_jizya_*, a tax paid by infidels for the privilege of remaining alive in the Dar-al-Islam, from Christians in Iraq. When the Christians can’t or won’t pay, Islamists rape their female family members. The reference adds that Islamists use Christian women the same way Imperial Japan used Koreans as what they called “comfort women.”

    • Islamists claim, and often exercise, the right to rape infidel women in North America, Europe, and Australia. “If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it … whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat? The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred.”

    *(6)* Both ideologies slate certain people for Sonderbehandlung (special treatment, i.e. extermination). The Nazis applied this to special needs children, and here is an example of Sonderbehandlung of gay people in Iran.

    *(7)* Both ideologies need not honor their agreements with Untermenschen. Examples include Hitler’s violation of his peace agreements, and the Islamist hudna (temporary or phony peace). Hamas has proven itself incapable of honoring its hudnas for more than a few hours.

    *(8)* Both ideologies identify property of Untermenschen with yellow Stars of David or the Arabic symbol nun (Nazarene, Christian) for expropriation or looting.

    *(9)* Both ideologies exterminate Untermenschen, and then bury them in mass graves. Nazi concentration camps, mass graves of Armenian victims of the Turkish genocide of 1915, and the current conduct of ISIS are all examples.

    *(10)* Both ideologies are totally incompatible with civil liberties, and Islamist demonstrators proclaim openly, “Freedom go to Hell.” As shown by Freedom House’s Map of Freedom:

    • Almost all Christian-majority nations outside the former Soviet Union are rated as Free.

    • The world’s only Jewish-majority nation is also the only Free nation in the entire Middle East.

    • The world’s only Hindu-majority nation is the world’s largest democracy.

    • NO Muslim-majority nation is rated better than Partly Free.

    The only significant difference between *_Nazism_* and *_Islamism_* is, in fact, that Nazism recognized Aryan women as Herrenvolk, while Islamism treats Muslim women as chattel property. Muslim women can be sold by their male “owners,” subjected to female genital mutilation, and stoned to death for adultery if they are raped.

    • eduardo odraude says

      Oct 1, 2014 at 7:48 pm

      There are some important distinctions between Islam and Nazism. Islam’s holocaust goes in slower motion. Per capita and per unit of time, Nazis killed more people than Islam.

      But Islam is more dangerous than Nazism, because Islam mixes its totalitarian goals with flexible, patient means, and relies far more on stealth than did the Nazis. I don’t think Hitler was patient. Also, Hitler wanted to destroy people on the basis of race. If a Jew converts to Islam in time, Muslims have no problem with that former Jew. Islam seeks to destroy other religions, not races, and that’s an important difference. Nazism and Islam are both totalitarian systems that must be stopped, but they are different.

  16. sidney penny says

    Oct 1, 2014 at 3:28 am

    Spencer brilliantly demolishes the Rabbi Reuben arguments the way I like it.

    Line by line and paragraph by paragraph.

    What a scholarly way to do it when you compare it to others.

    This is the proper way to respond and I hope that Rabbi Reuben responds to what Spencer has written here.

    I suspect that this Professor who obviously as Spencer puts it” someone who must be deeply familiar with the contents of the Qur’an ” will probably sneer and think he need not respond or explain himself because Jihad Watch is not a peer-reviewed article/book published in an academic journal/book.

    Rabbi Reuven Firestone is Professor and sometime I wonder what they do and teach in academia of higher learning.

    Rabbi Reuven Firestone certainly knows how to twist the facts.

    He also knows how to be an apologist of Islamic imperialism and to deny Islamic theology,

    He is arguing from authority. He is apparently unaware that the argument from authority is the weakest of all arguments.

    You will see that Spencer does not use name calling or sweeping generalizations based on slender or dubious evidence.

    Robert Spencer presents the evidence in support of his statements in a calm, logical, factual, well researched, well reasoned and logical manner.

  17. sidney penny says

    Oct 1, 2014 at 3:36 am

    Here is another Professor In Australia who knows what is in the Quran but does the same as what Rabbi Reuven Firestone is doing.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/08/australia-muslim-university-research-explains-that-theres-nothing-islamic-about-beheading-women-have-equal-rights-in-islam/comment-page-1#comment-1111966

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/09/australia-muslim-prof-claims-she-got-hate-mail-after-her-deceptions-exposed

    http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/there-is-nothing-islamic-about-a-beheading-muslims-v-extremists-20140821-106d1c.html

  18. duh_swami says

    Oct 1, 2014 at 6:01 am

    ‘Allah you not so magnificent bstrd, I read your book’.
    Now I see ‘experts’ with long titles saying that you didn’t mean what you wrote. What do you think of that, your greatness?
    You are pretty clear who you hate Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians , Wiccans, Pygmy headhunters, dogs, and kuffar in general. Does it bother you that these experts twist your words and meanings? What are you going to do about it? My advice is to send Iblis with a big stick to ‘reason’ with experts like this Rabbi. Of course, Allah, I don’t expect you to take my advice…you never have.

    • dumbledoresarmy says

      Oct 1, 2014 at 7:21 am

      That, I think, is one of your best posts ever, duh-swami.

      • Mirren10 says

        Oct 1, 2014 at 8:16 am

        Agreed.

      • gravenimage says

        Oct 1, 2014 at 7:00 pm

        Great stuff, Swami!

        As to how pious Muslims regard the twisting of meaning of the texts of Islam to imply they are nonviolent, it depends.

        If they are “slow Jihadists”, they are glad for the clueless dhimmitude, because it leaves the credulous Kuffar disarmed—if they are “fast Jihadists”, they are enraged at filthy Infidels and “apostates” lying about Islam.

        You can read these enraged rants from time to time at Jihadi sites.

  19. R Davis says

    Oct 1, 2014 at 6:34 am

    How else would Rabbi Reuven Firestone (great name by the way)
    AND
    Pamela Geller get noticed if they did not create little skirmishes.
    Why were wouldn’t even know who the are at all – they would be unknown persons.

    • duh_swami says

      Oct 1, 2014 at 6:48 am

      R Davis…Pam just puts up ads, others create the skirmishes.

    • Tradewinds says

      Oct 1, 2014 at 8:03 am

      Why is that a “great name?” I don’t get it.

      Concerning Geller, she would be an unknown person if we didn’t have to fight the Nazis, er, Muslims, in the 21st century. As for “skirmishes” – how absurd. Geller is a warrior in the counter-jihad movement as is Spencer. Whereas Firestone is a blithering idiot.

      Keep up the courageous and much-needed work Geller and Spencer!

    • Mirren10 says

      Oct 1, 2014 at 8:24 am

      Do you *really* think Pamela and Robert, and other counter-jihadists do what they do, in order to ‘get noticed’ ?

      It is clearly inconceivable to you and your ilk that *anyone* would fight evil on principle, for freedom of speech, conscience, and equality of all people under the law.

      No, according to you, they do it in order to ‘get noticed’.

      You’re either a troll, or a dismal little moron, who thinks they’re being oh so clever. Either way, you bring nothing useful to the counter-jihad. Bugger off.

    • gravenimage says

      Oct 1, 2014 at 7:07 pm

      More sickening Muslim apologia from the nasty R Davis.

      As others have pointed out, the idea that the brave Pamela Geller is creating a “skirmish” just to get noticed is absurd—there are less hazardous ways to “get noticed”.

      But R Davis has consistently slammed anyone who dares stand against Jihad.

      The only odd thing is that he is as critical here of Rabbi Firestone, who is whitewashing Islam, as he is of Ms. Geller.

      My only guess is that is because both of them are Jewish.

  20. Yitz says

    Oct 1, 2014 at 8:34 am

    If he is a faculty member at Hebrew Union College then he is not a bona fide rabbi. He is no more a rabbi than he is an imam.
    Deformed clergypersons would not recognize anti-semitism if it bit them in their tochas as they themselves hate Judaism.
    Though they most probably are more familiar with the Qur’an and the New Testament than they are with Judaism, he still does not understand what the Qur’an is all about.

    • Larry S says

      Oct 1, 2014 at 11:23 am

      You think, because he is a part of the Reform Movement, that he cannot be a rabbi? I can say with great confidence that I’ve known rabbis from HUC who were carefully attuned to anti-Semitism and that they revere the Jewish tradition.

      It takes a certain, oh, chutzpah for you to claim Dr. Firestone, who has written extensively about Islam, does not understand that the Qur’an is all about. You show no evidence of dealing with his argument.

      • Avrum says

        Oct 1, 2014 at 4:40 pm

        I think what Yitz is trying to say, and he is correct, is that the Reform movement, as an organization, is at the forefront of every leftist cause out there. Gay marriage, pro ground zero mosque, the feminization of Judaism, abortion on demand, global warming, anti gun ownership, and everything else the far left holds dear.
        As far as the title of Rabbi, the Reform movement does not accept Jewish law. Reform rabbis are not required to study or know or accept any Mishna, Talmud, Shulchan Oruch or any other books of Jewish law that have been passed down for thousands of years. Reform Judaism is based on Lutheranism from 19th century Germany not traditional Jewish modes of worship.
        I speak as someone that grew up in a Reform temple.
        There was an electric organ and a mixed choir made up of all non-Jews. The majority of the service is in English in the responsive reading style. Many prayers have there wording changed to be more P.C.
        If you have visited a Reform temple in the past, I suggest you visit an Orthodox synagogue to see a very traditional accurate Jewish service.

        • Kepha says

          Oct 1, 2014 at 9:00 pm

          Yitz, Reform was based on 19th century German “Lutheranism” only insofar as it swallowed the swindle of “higher criticism” hook, line, and sinker. Traditional Lutherans would’ve seen the “higher criticism” and snarled at it.

          As for our local reform rabbi:

          Besser a bort ohn a Rahv vi a Rahv ohn a bort.

      • gravenimage says

        Oct 1, 2014 at 7:20 pm

        Larry S wrote:

        It takes a certain, oh, chutzpah for you to claim Dr. Firestone, who has written extensively about Islam, does not understand that the Qur’an is all about. You show no evidence of dealing with his argument.
        ………………………………

        Larry, do you also believe that Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller have a lot of chutzpah for daring to mention how clueless Rabbi Firestone is on the Qur’an?

        Moreover, Mr. Spencer cites numerous passages of antisemitism in the Qur’an—can you counter his argument?

  21. Silvia says

    Oct 1, 2014 at 8:52 am

    How much do you guys wanna bet this dumb rabbi never read that filth???? That applies to all the idiots who keep declaring how all muslim violence of all kinds “is not from the quran”.

    Of course, you also have the liars who have read it and still lie about it.

    • Mirren10 says

      Oct 1, 2014 at 3:48 pm

      ”How much do you guys wanna bet this dumb rabbi never read that filth.”

      Unfortunately, Silvia, I think it is more than likely this fool **has** read ”that filth”.

      Where truly intelligent people make their mistake, is in assuming that others, equally intelligent ( or perhaps less 🙂 ) are **honest**.

      Honest people assume that people who read something, will react according to what they read, and will disseminate their knowledge according to what they read. They will assume that others are equally concerned about truth, as they are.

      **Dishonest** people, or (lets be charitable here) *fools* who fear what they know to be the truth; they cannot bear to be confronted with truth, because it calls their whole world view into question. Consequently, they either deny the truth, or twist themselves into pretzels in order to make the truth into something they can bear. They are **very** dangerous people, because they appeal to many who don’t want to face reality, and would much rather listen to the siren song, than get to grips with what islam wants to bring about, for **all** of us.

      This Rabbi is an example of the above; he is also an example of the type of Jew who ran the Judenrat, and the type of Jew who acted as a kapo. He has learned **nothing**, because he doesn’t actually **want** to learn anything; he simply wants to carry on living in his airy fairy, pink cloud miasma of wishful thinking. Because to do otherwise, would mean jettisoning everything he has cherished for so many years.

      He is an egregious **fool**.

  22. Larry S says

    Oct 1, 2014 at 10:13 am

    I want to review this when I have more time. Some quick initial reactions:

    1). I am grateful that Robert, while making a spirited reubttal, does not personally attack or make derogatory comments about Dr. Firestone, who I gather is a respected scholar in the world of Judaism.

    2). I’ve known Moslems who claim Qur’an 9:29 is an injunction that applies during time of war.

    3). Robert has at various times pointed out how violence in the Bible is descriptive vs. violence in the Koran being prescriptive, but I don’t think he has developed that argument fully (his book Religion of Peace? is his most complete discussion that I know of). Firestone quite rightly claims we must read them both in relation to the fullness of the scripture in which they are located (synchronically), and also in relation to how other scriptures treat non-believers (diachronically), and, at least for a popular audience, I think there is more in that area to explore.

    4) The Koran is maddeningly ambiguous, and people can make out of it what they will. While Robert has noted some early Islamic thing on “the Jewish question”, I don’t know he has attempted a complete or even balanced portrayal of those thoughts.

    • gravenimage says

      Oct 1, 2014 at 7:30 pm

      The Koran is maddeningly ambiguous, and people can make out of it what they will.
      ……………………………..

      Larry S., pious Muslims all over the world are genocidal Jew haters, and all on the basis of the Qur’an.

      They are also beheading and enslaving Infidels on the basis of this foul tome.

      Strangely, no pious Muslims find the Qur’an in the least “ambiguous”.

      I imagine you mean well, but pretending that it is ‘even-handed’ to give this manual for murder the benefit of the doubt when millions are being slaughtered in its name is, I’m afraid, just more dhimmitude.

      It also makes no more sense than it would have to give Mein Kampf the benefit to the doubt while the Holocaust was raging.

      • Larry S says

        Oct 1, 2014 at 8:35 pm

        I met a family that hosted a Saudi student for a year. When his father dropped the lad off, he learned that the host family was Jewish. Upon learning this, he supposedly responded with, “Wonderful, you won’t try to convert him, and you’ll keep kosher!”

        Admittedly, this is likely not a typical Saudi reaction.

    • yohanan says

      Oct 1, 2014 at 9:41 pm

      1) That Islam is “a religion of peace” and that the Quran is not anti-Jewish is both wishful thinking and whitewashing.

      2) Rabbi Firestone is not alone in that outlook. Perhaps he qualifies and contradicts that view in other forums… among dissembling academics and politicians for whatever their reasons.. .

      3) Of course, his academic home page, cv and publication list are accessible on the website of his academic institution, the Hebrew Union College, the seminary of the reform, progressive, liberal Jewish movement. See
      http://huc.edu/directory/reuven-firestone
      http://huc.edu/sites/default/files/people/pdf/Reuven%20Firestone%20_%20Curriculum%20Vitae%20-%206-26-2013.pdf

      4) BTW Yitz, the Reform Jewish movement has changed with the times. It is no longer like the Classical Reform Temple that I also grew up in… and moved away from.

    • voegelinian says

      Oct 3, 2014 at 5:53 pm

      “2). I’ve known Moslems who claim Qur’an 9:29 is an injunction that applies during time of war.”

      They’re right. But you must have missed something on the way to the Forum. Islam is perpetually at war, for all time.

      Back to the drawing board.

  23. Lepanto1571 says

    Oct 1, 2014 at 11:07 am

    Please don’t use Vatican 2 as a reference. Any real Catholic knows that council and it’s prior changes to the mass by heretics are to be rejected. Praying for the conversion of the Jews is not remotely the same as the koran calling for the smiting of Jews ( and Christians). Unlike Jews, Mohammedans are devil worshippers. We pray for their conversion to The One True Faith, not to kill them.

  24. Rob Crawford says

    Oct 1, 2014 at 11:55 am

    How many times has Imam Firestone said the shahada?

  25. Lisa says

    Oct 1, 2014 at 12:32 pm

    Another usefull (Jewish) idiot.

  26. mortimer says

    Oct 1, 2014 at 12:48 pm

    Firestone is trying to invent his very own non-aggressive, Jew-positive Islam. The original Islam is anything but.

    Most Muslims ‘know’ the degrading Islamic stereotypes of Jews … greedy, sons of pigs and apes, asses carrying large books, the greatest enemies of Muslims.

    So who is he trying to kid?

    • voegelinian says

      Oct 1, 2014 at 3:38 pm

      “Most Muslims ‘know’ the degrading Islamic stereotypes of Jews…”

      Correction: All Muslims know.

  27. pongidae rex says

    Oct 1, 2014 at 2:22 pm

    Magical thinking knows no bounds, especially regarding the catastrophic implications of political Islam to the spiritual freedom of humanity.

  28. gravenimage says

    Oct 1, 2014 at 5:12 pm

    Firestone decries simple answers, but unfortunately, the answer to his conundrum here is simple: the Qur’an speaks positively about Jews who accept Muhammad as a prophet and become Muslims, and negatively about those who don’t.
    ……………………………….

    This sums it up. In the early days of Islam Muhammed hoped that all Jews and Christians would accept him as their prophet, so he was willing to flatter them to at least some extent.

    When most Jews refused to follow him, his attitude turned to hatred and resentment, and eventually to narcissistic murderous rage.

    Rabbi Firestone either doesn’t understand this, or—more likely—doesn’t want to grasp the implications of acknowledging it.

    Who funds the International Qur’anic Studies Association? I’ve been unable to find any information on this. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was some pushers of Da’wa like the Jihad-enabling Saudis, though, who fund so many “academic” groups like this.

    Here’s what the witless Rabbi Firestone says in his introduction to his book, “An Introduction to Islam for Jews”:

    “Muslim-Jewish relations in the United States, Israel, and Europe are tenuous. Jews and Muslims struggle to understand one another and know little about each other’s traditions and beliefs…”

    Of course, it is the case that many people know little of other’s traditions and beliefs—there are Christians who are ignorant of Hinduism, Buddhists who know little about Judaism, Sikhs who don’t understand the first thing about Catholicism, etc.

    But the only reason this particular issue is so fraught is that Islam is trying to dominate, oppress, and *murder* us.

    And sort of whitewash, whether out of denial or deliberate Taqiyya, does *nothing* to help the victims’ understanding.

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