“If Muslims do not critique their own atrocities, then people on the outside will and their message will not be listened to simply because of who they are.” “An open letter to Ben Affleck,” by Eiynah, Pakistan Today, October 25, 2014 (thanks to Anne Crockett):
Your heart was in the right place, but…
Dear Ben,
I am writing to you today as a woman who was born and raised in Islam. I saw your discussion with Bill Maher and Sam Harris, and I must say you did me a great disservice that day. Your heart was in the right place, of course, and it was lovely of you to step up and defend ‘my people’.
What you really did though, perhaps inadvertently, was silence a conversation that never gets started. Two people attempted to begin a dialogue and you wouldn’t even listen. Why should any set of ideas be above criticism, Ben?
Why are Muslims being ‘preserved’ in some time capsule of centuries gone by? Why is it okay that we continue to live in a world where our women are compared to candy waiting to be consumed? Why is it okay for women of the rest of the world to fight for freedom and equality while we are told to cover our shameful bodies? Can’t you see that we are being held back from joining this elite club known as the 21st century?
Noble liberals like yourself always stand up for the misrepresented Muslims and stand against the Islamophobes, which is great but who stands in my corner and for the others who feel oppressed by the religion? Every time we raise our voices, one of us is killed or threatened. I am a blogger and illustrator, no threat to anyone, Ben, except for those afraid of words and drawings. I want the freedom to express myself without the very real fear that I might be killed for it. Is that too much to ask?
When I wrote a children’s book that carried a message of diversity and inclusivity for everyone, my life changed. My book, ‘My Chacha (uncle) is Gay’ has the innocent anti-homophobia message, ‘Love belongs to everyone’. This was not palatable to many of my Muslim brothers and sisters.
Since that project I have been declared an ‘enemy of God’ and deemed worthy of death. All because I want to help create a world where South Asian children too can have their stories told, so they too can know that love comes in all forms, and that that’s okay. My Muslim brothers and sisters were hit hard by this work because it addresses the issue of homophobia within our own community. It is not something they can pass off as ‘Western’ immorality. Just like they deny that any issues exist within the doctrine of Islam, many deny that homosexuality exists amongst good, ‘moral’ Muslims. Just like that, millions of people’s existence is denied. Please do not defend people who think this way, and let me tell you Ben, many ‘good’ Muslims do think this way.
What you did by screaming ‘racist!’ was shut down a conversation that many of us have been waiting to have. You helped those who wish to deny there are issues, deny them. You became an instant hero, a defender of Islam. It’s kind, it really is. I understand because I too am plagued and affected by the issues brought about by actual Islamophobia. I have a Muslim name and brown skin, my peaceful relatives have been pushed in the subway and called ‘terrorist’ for no reason.
I get that.
We must distinguish critiquing an ideology from being hateful towards a group of people. And for this reason I think that tackling the issues within Islam should be two-pronged. They must be brought up, but simultaneously we should stress that blame for these issues cannot be placed on individuals.
In the interest of being politically correct and ‘liberal’, we silence the voices of millions. I am turning to you because you were instrumental in starting this conversation. Those of us who want reform are muted by extremists, as well as the liberals who betray us in the name of multiculturalism.
ISIS paints a horrific picture, so I understand the knee-jerk reaction to deny any link. Most Muslims choose to interpret scripture in a peaceful way, but that doesn’t mean the raw material isn’t there for those who choose the path of violence. That material must be addressed.
Can we talk about the blatant double standards and violation of human rights, for a second? Mosques are built throughout western countries, usually without much issue. But in the hub of Islam, the heart of Islam, Saudi Arabia, no one but Muslims are allowed to officially practice their faith. There are no churches, temples or synagogues because Saudi Arabia will not permit any non-Muslim place of worship to exist. Who will hold them accountable for such injustice if we hush everyone who speaks out against Islam?
What is so wrong with wanting to step into the current century? There should be no shame. There is no denying that violence, misogyny and homophobia exist in all religious texts, but Islam is the only religion that is adhered to so literally, to this day.
In your culture you have the luxury of calling such literalists “crazies”, like the Westboro Baptist Church, for example. In my culture, such values are upheld by more people than we realise. Many will try to deny it, but please hear me when I say that these are not fringe values. It is apparent in the lacking numbers of Muslims willing to speak out against the archaic Shariah law. The punishment for blasphemy and apostasy, etc, are tools of oppression. Why are they not addressed even by the peaceful folk who “aren’t fanatical, who just want to have some sandwiches and pray five times a day? Where are the Muslim protestors against blasphemy laws/apostasy? Where are the Muslims who take a stand against harsh interpretation of Shariah? These sandwich-eating peaceful folk do not defend those suffering in the name of Islam, Ben, and therein lies our problem.
Maybe the points Maher and Harris were trying to make are more easily digested when coming from within the community, I can appreciate that. That is why I am writing to you, as someone who has personally been hurt by the lack of acknowledgement of these issues.
If Muslims do not critique their own atrocities, then people on the outside will and their message will not be listened to simply because of who they are. It’s a vicious cycle, one that can only break if indeed, like Harris said, true reformers are empowered.
I ask you and anyone reading this to make an effort to seek out reformers from within our community, and support them in any way you can.
If I were allowed to meet a man that is not my father, brother or husband unchaperoned, I would have loved to discuss this over drinks (which I am also not allowed to have) with you. So, you see, things must change.
Sincerely,
Eiynah
Jovial Joe says
Read it weep Affleck; you’re not fit to spit-shine this woman’s shoes!
Jovial Joe says
‘Read it AND weep’. :/
mortimer says
Thank you, Eiynah, for making the effort to reply. In other words, Ben Affleck is actually DEFENDING THE VICTIMIZERS…the misogynistic supremacists who believe in theocratic fascism.
Ben Affleck is actually DEFENDING THE JIHADISTS who want to remove the human rights and civil liberties of women and ‘others’.
Ben Affleck is trying to silence the critics of THEOCRATIC CHAUVINISTIC TOTALITARIANISM.
Ben, silence only helps the perpetrators, never helps their victims…women and ‘others’.
Fred says
i just think hes trying to be seen as a defender against radical islam but refuses to understand that , in a broader perspective, hes actually doing Islamic people who arent terrorists or extremist a disservice. The people who are killing, beheading, terrorizing have a religion in common. If tomorrow, all Baptists started killing people of other religions , we would act the same as we do with Muslims. I know youve heard that one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch (girl) and a bunch of bad apples can fuck everything up. Just like there are bad Catholics who molest children , it doesnt mean that ALL catholics are molesters. Its the bad apples within the Islamic faith that are the issue. Not people who are peacefully leading their lives and practice their faith. Im not a huge proponent of religion, but i get that alot of people feel good and find comfort in believing what they believe and if they can do so in peace then , in this country, they should be and are guaranteed in the constitution to be allowed to do it. It becomes a matter of intellect and progressive thinking that an element of the religion is lacking and apparently unwilling to change. Its people, not religion, that is the problem. People like Ben should understand the difference between the two and not get upset when someone points it out. geez, how much did i just type???? sorry
gravenimage says
Fred wrote:
Its the bad apples within the Islamic faith that are the issue. Not people who are peacefully leading their lives and practice their faith.
…………………………
Fred—with all respect—it isn’t the “bad apples” within the Islamic faith who are the issue.
These are *devout Muslims*. What we are seeing in the Islamic State—and increasingly everywhere—is *what Islam teaches*. It is a core part of Islam that Muslims oppress, enslave, and slaughter Infidels and the “insufficiently Islamic”. This has been true since the earliest days of Islam, on the model of the “Prophet”.
The bad Muslims are the few ‘moderates”—lax Muslims who are not really practicing their faith.
And we cannot expect them to defend us against their more devout coreligionists, either. They may not overtly work for Jihad and Shari’ah, but they aren’t going to oppose it, either.
BlueRaven says
‘you’re not fit to spit-shine this woman’s shoes!’
Excellent observation about that clown Affleck. He is clueless when he opens his mouth, and when he is sprouting out he cannot connect to his brain. Perhaps his brain is a ted-bit lower down an too far to connect.
Carlos Perez Coffie says
I hope Robert will make sure Ben gets this letter.
jihad3tracker says
WHAT A GIFT ! !
This should be distributed as widely as possible, IMO, via all the social media paths that we here at JW use . . . and ask recipients to pass it on.
The old “chain letter” process — but put to a good purpose.
john spielman says
the letter is good!, but the problem is that the qu’ran and hadiths of muhammed-pbuh* are to be interpreted through muhammed’s behavior. Thus islam can never be reformed from the murderous death cult that it is. There will always be death for those considered apostates from islam, and for those like me who “blaspheme” islam and the name of muhammed-pbuh*. like wise, women msut be treated lke chattle, and the most odious – their works rightoeus theology that in order to guarentee paradise after death, the believer must die in battle aginst unbelievers like the two jihadists in Canada last week.
*pbuh-perpetual banishment unto hell!
jihad3tracker says
Yes, JS, the impossibility of “reform” is designed into the structure of Islam.
Let me again give links to 2 excellent sites that many of us here might not have encountered : http://www.inquiryintoislam.com / http://www.citizenwarrior.com. For that first resource, “What makes Islam so successful?” (upper right homepage list) is a great place to start.
The other header topics merit reading, too, but “The allegory of Pleasantville” might especially stretch minds which have not yet grasped one facet of the counter-jihad reality dilemma — like my sweet aunt Mabel, who never gets far beyond the homespun philosophy of Mayberry’s sheriff Andy.
Jay Boo says
@John spielman & jihad3tracker
When Islam is allowed to be examined publically, it falls apart quite easily.
Was Muhammad a prophet?
Why are Muslims obsessed with violence in general and the military conquest of Jerusalem?
1 Jerusalem
Remember that, Muhammad turned his back to Jerusalem while committing his vile sins in Medina and turned instead to Mecca.
2 Mecca Satanic Verses
Of course, Muhammad had already violated the first of the Ten Commandments earlier when he worshipped jinn spirits in Mecca and to make matters even worse he invented the laughable excuse “The devil made me do it”
3 In fact, Muhammad violated most of the Ten Commandments
http://www.the-ten-commandments.org/the-ten-commandments.html
4 The Mystery of Abraham.
If one assumes that the story about Abraham being told to slay his son is true, then one has no other choice than to also assume that in no way possible could Abraham have been a Muslim.
For, if Abraham had been a Muslim and been told to honor kill his child, that poor child would have been minced into a heap resembling hamburger even after God had said “hold on Abraham, choose a ram instead”.
john spielman says
also when muslims in Jesusalem pray, theirs heads point to Mecca and their asses to the Dome of the Rock. They also use the temple mount for soccer games and picnics.
Beth says
Love your post Jay Boo. Very interesting (and good).
I have always wondered about this one also:
“Why are Muslims obsessed with violence in general and the military conquest of Jerusalem?
1 Jerusalem
Remember that, Muhammad turned his back to Jerusalem while committing his vile sins in Medina and turned instead to Mecca.”
@ mauricemojo234
No where in the Koran is the name Palestine mentioned.
The name Israel is though. A whole chapter is devoted to the “Children of Israel”. For me, – this makes every muslim who supports Palestine a religious hypocrite.
Here is something that I believe is important to be aware of:
The Dead Sea scrolls were written (and hidden) long before the Koran was written. And in those scrolls (the book of Isaiah to be precise) the name Palestine is found – not “Philistine”.
Hebrew Lexicon….
Pelishtiy: Translation = Philistine
Pelesheth: Translation = Palestine (this is the word that is in
the scrolls)
It is also found in the King James and Geneva bibles – in three different places – including the one that the scrolls have in the book of Isaiah – with the whole scripture being word-for-word in the older bibles that we have today)
First place where the name Palestine is found:
Exd 15:14 The people shall hear, and be afraid: sorrow shall take hold on the inhabitants of Palestina. {In the song of Moses…
The saints ‘sing’ this song} Rev 15:3
It is the sound of war by words} Exd 32:17
Second place:
Joe 3:4 Yea, and what have ye to do with Me, … Palestine?
Third place:
Isa 14:31 Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.
Palestine is a name. Philistine is a race (of people).
This is important to know for all Christians, because:
1Ti 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy (and every Christian), according to the prophecies which went before on thee – that thou by them – mightest war a good warfare.
This is how to defeat Islam without a bloodbath. And the atheists would very wise to stand aside and keep their mouths shut.
As for the letter above? It’s a great letter – but there is no way the Koran can be reformed without eliminating Islam all together. Not going to happen – not without bloodshed.
Veronica says
Beth, all depends on which English translator translated these passages into English…as when they did Israel was already renamed “Palestine” by the Romans…so therfore the English translated Judea into Palestine. There is no mention in my Bible of Palestine.
Rami Reed says
Not only is the word ‘Palestine’ not mentioned in the Koran, but Jerusalem is never mentioned even once.
In the Bible, Jerusalem and Israel are spoken of many, many times
Glen says
Your comment about exodus 15-14 is about the philistians, not the Palestinians, they are not the same entity. There is no mention of the nation of Palestine in the Bible ever.
Beth says
@Veronica: “Israel was already renamed “Palestine” by the Romans”
Veronica, I don’t believe you read my whole comment. Moses existed LONG before the Roman empire came along. And I gave the Dead Sea Scrolls (which were written at/or about at the time the Roman Empire came along – and were hidden and kept untouched until 1947.
The whole book of Isaiah is in those scrolls – and it is word for word to the one we have in the Ling James and Geneva bibles – which the NIV and later bibles were translated (updated) from those older bibles. The council who re-wrote the Scriptures took the name Palestine out – and put in the name Philistine – which was either on purpose – by mistake.
This worlds college professors will tell you that the name originated with the Roman empire – but the facts say different. Very different. They did not do their homework in this subject – because they are not interested in this subject. – And yet – there they are – for all to see. I believe the Lord did this. Those scrolls make the facts undeniable.
Barry K says
Yes, speak the truth plainly against main stream Islam which is what Robert Spenser blog rightly revealed. But why join the hate mindset of the mullahs in condemning those tiny minority Muslims who hold views of Islam which are less orthodox, more accommodative and relevant to today’s world? Don’t join the mullahs by calling these minorities liberals, pluralistic and harping that they are heretics who overlook critical hate verses in the Koran. Do non-christians criticise and call Christians who are less orthodox in doctrines and theology, heretics and fake Christians ? If not, why should we as non Muslims criticise Muslims who choose to differ in their views from main stream Islam( like Reza Aslan), and accuse them of twisting the teachings of the Koran. It makes comments on this blog sound like from some militant right wing ‘Christians’.
gravenimage says
For one thing, Barry K, there are *very few* Muslims who really espouse a more “moderate” form of Islam—mostly this is just window dressing trotted out to fool the “filthy Kuffar”.
A lot of “moderate” Muslims tend to be not-so-moderate when you look a little deeper. Many supposed “moderates”, for instance, are virulent antisemites who want to see the destruction of Israel, or who believe in the death penalty for apostasy.
voegelinian says
Yes, unfortunately (even tragically and strangely), Eiynah’s own heart may be in the right place, but her mind is not — cannot be, as long as she admires Muhammad (as she must do, as long as she stays in Islam), the founder and source of all that is evil and unjust in the world of Islam.
KrazyKafir says
So true. Even with her heart in the right place, she is still a carrier of the most virulent evil ideology the world has ever seen.
KrazyKafir says
A marvelous and illuminating letter. The problem is, is that most die hard leftists have an impenetrable shield to guard against reality, and that shield is, cognitive dissonance. One must ignore, or convolute, to the point of delusion inconvenient reality in order to protect the world’s biggest leftist lie that, all cultures are equal. A shield I’m certain Affleck will use in this case protecting his bubble of twisted self-righteousness.
Jay Boo says
That may be true, but Ben Affleck won’t be able to use his ‘go to’ Islam defense of her being a racist.
Texas Sandman says
How can one be racist against a religion? That idea compeletely fails Philosophy 101.1
Then again, the entirety of Islam fails philosophy and reason, so maybe I’m being a little pedantic.
Forthfaran says
It might be good to ask this twit what particular race he had in mind with his accusations. Anyway who cares what Affleck says,he’s nobody ,just an actor.Being an actor does not automatically make one wise or clever or educated;often quite the opposite.
RonaldB says
Eliyna does indeed paint a poignant picture for supporting reform in the Muslim community.
But I see a problem. Suppose there were a group or groups, of Muslims who somehow, however difficult, cobbled together a peaceful version of Islam which even did away with the death penalty or physical punishment, for apostacy.
Now, these people, still being Muslims, presented Muhammad as the perfect man and the Koran as the fount of all wisdom. They push the benign view of Islam in our education system, and of course, see any attempt to limit specifically Muslim immigration as unjustified discrimination.
The question is, is it in our best interest to treat these reformed Muslims as just another form of religion? Or, venerating the Koran and Muhammed, are they simply, but sincerely, softening us up for domination by the more assertive and fundamentalist Muslim?
john spielman says
the question is moot, since any “reformed muslims” would be killed as apostates by more fundamentalist muslims like ISIS etc. The qur’an and hadiths of muhammed-pbuh* must be intrepted by the actions and commands of muhammed, hence the radicals are always right and the ” reformers’ wrong – DEAD WRONG!
* pbuh- perpetual banishment unto hell!
RonaldB says
I beg to differ.
The question is very real. Such “apostates” would indeed be killed in countries that are Moslem-majority, such as Pakistan or Iran.
But, suppose we in the West begin to wake up to the lies and distortions pushed by Muslim groups such as CAIR, and understand that violence and coercion form the core of Islam? All of a sudden, the only Muslim welcomed in the US would be from the “reformed” Muslims, who say there is a problem with the traditional interpretation of the Koran and Muhammad, but that their own interpretation shows that Islam really forbids violence, and even allows apostasy.
Muhammad is still the perfect man and the Koran the final word of Allah, they say.
Should we encourage this more benign form of Islam by giving only to them the recognition that CAIR now demands? Should we allow immigrants espousing this more benign form of Islam, while not allowing the more traditional Muslims to enter the US?
In other words, will a “reformed” Islam be relatively safe? Or, will it serve as a carrier and enabler of the Koran and the concept of Muhammad, such that it worms its way into our society, encouraging Muslim immigration, until our political system is thoroughly compromised, and no politician can be elected without catering to some form of Islam?
For my money, I think it’s a mistake to think that non-Muslims can influence the direction of the Muslim community, and even more of a mistake to try. What we can do is:
1) Absolutely enforce our laws and give long prison terms to anyone bypassing our legal system. This includes anyone setting themselves up as a sharia court. A sharia tribunal should not be allowed to operate, even if both disputants agree voluntarily to abide by the decision. If they want to be judged by sharia, they should not be in the US.
2) Absolutely enforce our laws against violence and coercion, including the extensive use of undercover agents in mosques to ferret out implicit threats of violence towards women and actual plots of violence such as honor killing.
3) Cut off all Muslim immigration, including members of the “reformed” Islam group. This will not affect the Muslims who are already citizens, but will avoid further strain on our political system. We have every right to protect our representative form of government by excluding people not committed to that form of government.
Notice that the suggestions I give do NOT explicitly give support to any Muslim group claiming to reform. They apply and enforce civilized standards uniformly. If the “reformed” Muslims are truly non-violent and non-coercive, they won’t have anything to fear from an intense scrutiny by security agencies. On the other hand, if they want to bring in their uncles, nephews, and other relatives, the relatives will simply have to decide to permanently renounce any form of Islam, and support our present form of government, without sharia changes, violent or non-violent.
Beth says
And what gaurentee does that provide for keeping the violent side of Islam out in the future?
None. And make no mistake about it – the violent side would find its way in. As long as the violent side (which, for me, there is no peaceful side…but I digress) as long as the violent side is alive any where in the world – it will finds its way in. In fact – welcoming the more peaceful side (which, is a lie in of itself) would only pave the way for the violent side to move in.
voegelinian says
In your scenario, which is too simplex and artificial, such a “reform Islam” could work. But in the actual world where the interpenetration of ostensibly sincere reform-minded Muslims and the vast multitudes of primitively minded Mohammedan fanatics (among whom are innumerable snakes who are pretending through taqiyya to be reform-minded or merely harmless) is complex on so many levels, any kind of “reform” of the Essentially Unreformable monstrosity of Islam should be deemed intolerably suspect.
RonaldB says
You know, Voegelinian,
I feel like the person in the city of Troy that says “Watch out for that horse, and examine it carefully before you consider bringing it in.”
And you say, “You’re mistaken in thinking the horse is perfectly safe. You should be more critical before saying we should bring it in.”
umbra says
A reformed islam without any violent elements would necessarily lead to the removal (and/or reinterpretation) of large chunks of the koran and various hadiths. Can the koran be reinterpreted or re-compiled (re-edited) – along with those hadiths – theologically? Also, reformed islam would have to explain away how mo can behave so appalling and yet be considered a (“the”?) perfect example. Either that or remove the unreliable mo from the scene. Should mo be removed from the scene, where does that leave islamic revelations – the koran? And the cultist manuals that are the hadiths?
So, it is perhaps likely that reformed non-violent (non-misogynistic, non-bigoted, non-etc) islam would not be islam. Furthermore, it may be impossible to rework the koran into something theologically, logically, objectively and historically peaceful (equitable, etc). In which case, it would be easier to simply hire a professor of creative writing to write new sets of scriptures – from scratch -for the “reformed” peaceful islamic (with supporting theology).
James says
This letter is something that Big Ben should memorize. This woman’s bravery is far superior to others in the media and it is too bad that the “true” Muslims will consider her an apostate and will or does want her dead now.
God bless Eiynah!
Mirren10 says
She makes some good points, but on the whole, *I* think it’s rather a schizophrenic letter.
”Since that project I have been declared an ‘enemy of God’ and deemed worthy of death”
Then, she says:
”We must distinguish critiquing an ideology from being hateful towards a group of people. And for this reason I think that tackling the issues within Islam should be two-pronged. They must be brought up, but simultaneously we should stress that blame for these issues cannot be placed on individuals.”
So who has declared her to be an enemy of God, and worthy of death ? *Individuals*. An ‘ideology’ is not an entity that acts by itself; it requires *individuals* to act out its tenets. She’s not addressing that.
Neither is she addressing the character of mohammed.
” I want the freedom to express myself without the very real fear that I might be killed for it.”
It’s not the ‘ideology’ of islam that may kill her, it is *individual muslims* who choose to act out its tenets.
PRCS says
“blame for these issues cannot be placed on individuals”
I noted the same.
One cannot blame an inanimate book for the physical actions of an individual. While it is true that an individual’s potential behavior can be influenced by a book’s words, the actual behavior results from an individual’s personal choices and decisions.
One of the biggest problems for Muslim “reformers” is that so many of their coreligionists ARE literalists and such reforms (if they could even actually be accomplished) would take many generations for the entire ummah to accept.
Champ says
Indeed! You raised some excellent points, Mirren10!!
And you wrote:
“Neither is she addressing the character of mohammed.”
So true …addressing mohammed’s malevolent character enrages muslims; but, exposing probably the most evil criminal that ever lived, is so basic and essential to getting at the *ugly truth* about islam and company.
And here I’m reminded of one of Robert Spencer’s earlier books …
“The Truth About Muhammad: Founder of the World’s Most Intolerant Religion”
http://www.amazon.com/The-Truth-About-Muhammad-Intolerant/dp/1596985283
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Take care, my dear friend! 🙂
voegelinian says
Eiynah may well qualify for the role of the Better Cop (the Good Cop Muslim who takes his act a step higher to make it more plausible by making deeper critical cuts into Islam but, of course, never getting to the pertinent heart of the matter).
I.e., to say she may be schizophrenic is the more forgiving interpretation. Either way, she is on the complex macro level doing her small part to facilitate the ongoing Hijra Jihad invasion of the West by Mohammedans.
voegelinian says
And the extent to which this Better Cop tactic works is demonstrated amply by the majority of comments by Jihad Watchers here — who are the perfect test audience — filled with uncritical praise, unalloyed with even a smidgeon of suspicion or wariness.
Cesar Cappellozza says
You’re taking it out of context. The first part is a report. The second part is the discussion of a problem.
Picture this: a man in a room, with an order to kill on his left hand and a gun on his right. How do you prevent killing, where is the issue? Is it the man, the gun or the order?
Ralph says
Well, well, now we have to wonder if the so-called Islam religion is what it really is; because there is a greater power that has already given a Destiny to the Muslim’s…
Genesis 16: 7 The angel of the Lord found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. 8 And he said, “Hagar, slave of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?”
“I’m running away from my mistress Sarai,” she answered.
9 Then the angel of the Lord told her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” 10 The angel added, “I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count.”
11 The angel of the Lord also said to her:
“You are now pregnant
and you will give birth to a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,[a]
for the Lord has heard of your misery.
12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward[b] all his brothers.”
So if there is a result that is greater than that; please give it to me…
dumbledoresarmy says
YHWH is not a puppet master. Talk of “destiny” and “fate” is profoundly nonbiblical. No group is deliberately created simply and solely in order to do evil so that they can then be destroyed for it; that is an islamic concept, not a biblical concept.
Muslims are not inexorably “fated” like robots to do what they do (and the overwhelming majority of Muslims are not lineal / genetic descendants of Ishmael anyway; and so far as I know, the *Arabs* themselves are mostly not descendants of Ishmael, either).
One of the key statements in the Bible is in the prophet Ezekiel, where God says that He desires not the death of the wicked, but that they should turn from their wickedness, and *live*.
gravenimage says
I’ve said this many times, DDA—but Ralph continues to post the exact same thing—that Muslims do what they do not because they follow a false and malevolent creed, but because Arabs were cursed hundreds of years before Muhammed’s birth.
Not only is this idea that humans lack agency repulsive and false, but it fails to explain two very important points: firstly, the existence of some very decent Arab Christians and atheists, some of whom are apostates from Islam; and the fact that non-Arab Muslims, be they east Asian, south-east Asian, from the sub-continent, Persian, Russian, sub-Saharan African, or Western converts, are every bit as savage as are Arab Muslims.
Clearly, it is the content of Islam and the decision to follow it that is the problem.
boakai ngombu says
“… Most Muslims choose to interpret scripture in a peaceful way, but that doesn’t mean the raw material isn’t there for those who choose the path of violence. That material must be addressed….”
watch your back, Eiynah, the OIC don’t like to hear such talk
jihad3tracker says
In a post above I mentioned two ultra-high quality info resources on Islam. Let me jump in again with a third — blogged by the magnificent David Wood :
http://www.answeringislam.com. Currently up first (10:30 a.m. ET) at his website is a thorough shredding of what “Muslim feminist” Theresa Corbin wrote recently.
Devoting many paragraphs in Qur’an / Hadith refutation & common-sense take downs of what she says, he spent what must be a good hour pounding down a minor bump on the road to hell.
That is the kind of uber-dedicated person who is in my personal short list of The Absolute Best — along with Mr. Spencer and Ms. Geller. Give him a visit — you won’t be disappointed.
jihad3tracker says
OOOOPS ! ! ! ! ! ! THAT WEBSITE IS —
http://www.answeringmuslims.com
jeff.davis33@gmail.com says
Amen. This letter should be sent to CNN , MSNBC and any other Islamic apologist news stations.
duh_swami says
Reform? If you believe Allah is God, and his words in Quran are for all time, and perfect, what man of group of men, are capable of improving on this perfection?
CogitoErgoSum says
True, duh_swami. Why waste time trying to reform Islam? I would suggest that those who are unhappy with being Muslims convert to another religion. Yes, there would be some risks involved in committing apostasy …. but wouldn’t there also be risks involved in committing bida …. that is, trying to innovate new understandings of the “perfect” and “perfectly clear” words of Allah (or Muhammad)? I would advise Muslims not to look back but to seek out the wisdom of another who said, “Allow the dead to bury their own dead; but as for you, go and proclaim everywhere the kingdom of God.” That kingdom and the freedom you seek is within you and all around you if you would but realize it. Move on to a new life and let Islam die and bury itself.
dumbledoresarmy says
Yes.
Since this woman has come to my attention, my prayer for her – which I have just fired off – is that she may be brought to conclude (since she’s *already* getting death threats etc, as Magdi Allam did when – while still calling himself Muslim – he began to stray into forbidden territory, such as speaking favourably about Jews and Israel) that she may as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb, and…APOSTASISE.
That’s what Magdi Allam did; and now he’s Magdi CRISTIANO Allam, having ditched Islam about as publicly as humanly possible.
mortimer says
Question for Ben: “What is the punishment for criticizing Islamic doctrines in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, ISIS, Turkey, Jordan, Libya?
mortimer says
‘Good’ Muslims imitate Mohammed. Jihad is a form of psychopathy. Mohammed was a psychopath.
‘Bad’ Muslims do not imitate Mohammed. They do not conduct jihad.
‘Bad’ Muslims treat kafirs as their equals, rather than ‘hating them for the sake of Allah’.
‘The DISBELIEVERS are greatly hated by Allah and the (Muslim) believers.’ – Koran 35.26
Ben, Muslims are commanded to hate you merely because you disbelieve that Mohammed was a valid prophet.
BlueRaven says
The letter appears to be a small step in the right direction. Unfortunately, she appear not to comprehend that Islam will not change , period. Islamic laws are always managed by a small bunch of absolutely brutal ##s##les. The people who suffer mostly are the non-Muslims and normal Muslims as everyone on JW pointed out about millions of times. The brutal ###les get to share the bounty (sex/drugs/wealth). That is the same formula any gangster uses when he invites people to his gang.
When a person of the age of 53 marries a six years old small child, there is no compassion in the process. It is certainly not love, therefore this person does not know a single thing about love. That is a true form of pidoism. Hence the person can not be Godly.
Islam is not a religion. Eiynah never experienced a religion. As pointed out by several JWers here Islam is a protocol to take over and terrorize masses into submission.
Eiynah – for what you want, to live free and discuss freely, you need to leave Islam. Islam will never change unless masses leave. If you people can muscle up support to rid the Sharia laws from killing the apostates, then Islam is a done deal. Islam will die of a massive heart attack.
bobm says
.. islam is a death , blood , fear based , vampire , cult of darkness… come out from amongst them woman… John 3:16
Blitz2b says
Eniyah’s letter to Ben is good, but she is as delusional as he is. She hopes that Islam will someday reform and the liberals including the likes of Afleck are proving to be a stumbling block to that processes. FYI , Eniyah, there is NOWAY on earth that Islam can ever reform. Reformation would mean that you would have to admit that Islam’s teachings about treatment of infidels are wrong and coexistence with people of all faiths would contradict the very core of Islam’s agenda of world domination and subjugation and humiliation of unbelievers. (9:29) There is no such thing as an utopian ” kumbaya ” Islam, that moderates like Zudi Jaffer, Irshad Manji et al are hoping to conjour up. Eniyah should face the facts and shed the burden of Islam like a dead skin… There is no way around it… A lie will always remain a lie no matter how much you try and coat it…
Wellington says
It’s a well written letter and certainly this woman is beyond Ben Affleck on matters related to Islam (though this is not hard to do considering Affleck’s paucity of knowledge on these matters), but there is a huge and fundamental flaw in this woman’s thinking, one that has already been addressed by several on this thread, and that is that Islam is no more reformable than is Nazism or Marxism. You can’t reform a totalitarian ideology and make it into something that accepts freedom and true tolerance. Can’t be done. I hope this woman comes to realize this someday and takes the only truly defensible approach to Islam that a Muslim can take and that is to leave it, though I fully understand that doing so is easier said than done and, of course, can quite often be accompanied by both estrangement from loved ones and danger.
voegelinian says
Eiynah could be like a Magdi Allam, who was a reform-minded Muslim for years before he finally realized he had to jump ship and leave Islam. But as far as we know, in the Mohammedan Sea that runs and courses its polluted and toxic and bloody waters through a hundred countries around the world, Magdi Allams are one in a million, and we should not err on the side of resting (much less acting) upon unfounded hope in assuming the best.
Wellington says
I agree. Where Islam and Muslims are concerned it is best to assume the worst and then, if wrong on a given occasion, it would be a welcomed time to be wrong.
Jacob says
Starting with an accurate history gives strength to the good and weakens savages.
http://www.MesopotamiaNow.org
Michael Warden says
Who is Ben Affleck ?
GS says
Remember there is 2.08 Billion muslims in the world, if muslims are terrorists why the muslims countrys are in shit and not the non-muslims ? yeah !! right !! somebody put all his shit on muslims while he is killing and doing whatever he want hiding under the name os ” ISLAM “, I’m sure you have a brain to think…. just one question ok! which people are dying at the moment in this world? talking about thousands of innocent people, kids, women and old people… be real and be human
Western Canadian says
Even for gibberish, this post is unreal….. And there are not over 2 billion muslims, so get lost, Abdul.
GS says
Ok Mr, ask uncle google.com he will give you an answer 🙂
Western Canadian says
And again more meaningless gibberish. Go away Abdul, your goats miss you.
Champ says
Ok, BS, lets “be real” …
Not all muslims are terrorists, but the vast majority of terrorists ARE in fact muslims. And the greatest threat facing our world is islam and company.
GS says
Who started the first world war? Who started the second world war? was it Islam? Who killed about 20 millions of Aborigines in Australia? Who sent the nuclear bombs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Who killed more than 100 millions of Indians in North America? Who killed more than 50 millions of Indians in south America? Who took about 180 millions of African people as slaves and 88% of them died and was thrown in Atlantic ocean? Who is killing more then 20,000 Muslims in Burma?????
I often look at the history of major world conflicts, such as: World War I, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, and ask myself how many were led by Islam?
There’s only one real threat to the world, and history clearly shows who and what it is.
Am I missing something? If a non-Muslim do something bad..it is crime. But if a Muslim commit same..he is terrorist, and Islam is the reason why he did… Death by stoning is the lawful punishment for adultery in Judaism and Christianity (and is only applied to the womenfolk). The punishment for adultery in Islam is 100 lashes and is applied to men and women equally.
Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all western governments are.
Read the definition of “terrorism”. now study the wars inflicted on the middle eastern world by the western forces. Tell me, whose the terrorist?
From a purely statistical point of view, every “allied nation’s” government should be imprisoned for crimes against humanity.People are judging Islam according to Muslims’ behavior which may be wrong take the Quran read it understand it then judge it. Unfortunately people don’t have time to learn about religions they just judge them. There is more than two millions Muslims in the UK. Did they cause two millions attack. We read everyday on newspapers drug dealers killings, rape and boyfriends killing. Are they Muslims ??? Very few are.
Champ says
More BS from GS …whose pretzel logic does not impress me, at all.
A more significant date to remember is September 11, 2001–not 1914 or 1939, so lets stick to current threats the world faces, shall we.
And since 9/11, the vast majority of terrorist attacks have been committed by muslims. Period!
Get. Lost. Liar. You are a waste of everyone’s time and attention.
Done here.
GS says
The problem here is that the attacks by muslims are called ‘terrorist attacks’ while those by the US are actually anti terror measures. USA is not a terrorist for being the only country to use nuclear bombs. Those two nuclear bombs dropped on Japan is arguably one of the biggest terrorist attacks. 500,000 people! But as the media is dominated by the west, those attacks were self defence. How do you call wiping two whole cities with men, women and children a self defence measure. And it was USA’s right to steal Iraqi oil, wasnt it?
Then, it was the USA who injected pictures of guns in the madressah syllabus of Afghani students, so as to make them stand up to Russia. They did stand up. But now, not only against Russia, but against anyone who stepped on their land.
For Pakistan, did you ever hear about Pakistan before 2001 other than when they made the bomb to counter India’s bomb threat or for those in the common wealth, when they won the Cricket WC? Pakistan was a much safer place to live before the then dictator Musharraf decided to join hands with the US forces in their ‘War on Terror’. When Pakistani military lent their air bases to US, and the taliban were bombed in Afghanistan, they simply crossed the border for shelter and mushroomed into Pakistan. Now that they are here, it is Pakistani’s who ar suffering the most. For a country already facing many problems and a troubled relationship with its neighbour, an insurgency was the worst thing. The US dollar against the Pakistani rupee, valued at somewhere near 57rs in 1999 has skyrocketed to more than 100rs. When a drone strike occurs, the Taliban simply bomb Pakistani’s in their revenge assault. Just search for the statistics, of how many Pakistani soldiers have died fighting the Taliban and more than that how many Pakistani’s have died in taliban led attacks. For OBL staying in Pakistan, do you think that 200 million Pakistani’s knew his location? Certainly, if someone knew, it was one of those in the ranks. So when more Pakistani’s have died at the hands of the Taliban than American, how can you call Pakistani’s ‘terrorists’? Just tell me who arrested the 9/11 master mind and handed him over to US? Pakistan.
Western Canadian says
What vicious criminal mockery of a religion has been at war with the human race for 1400 years? islam!! What criminal mockery of a religion ran the African/arab slave trade? islam!! What criminal mockery of a religion held hands with hitler and the Nazis?? islam!!! What criminal mockery of a religion STILL has failed criminally to reject slavery?? islam!! Which hate filled creatures have been found keeping ’employees’ as slaves in London and New York?? muslims!!! What criminal mockery of a religion murdered over one million people in this centuries first act of genocide in 1915?? islam.
What peoples create the source for heroin? muslims!! What criminal mockery of a religion takes female civilians captured in illegal wars as sex slaves?? islam!!! What rabid less than animal creatures form rape gangs to torture, rape and murder children in England, France, Germany and other invaded countries?? Followers of islam!!
And don’t believe the lies that your imam tells you about the west and it’s treatment of native peoples….. They lie to you as much or more than they lie to us.
GS says
I think you really need to learn more about history…
History tells us that when Sultan Salahuddin regained Jerusalem from the invading and ruthless Crusaders, who had ninety years earlier massacred and savagely treated its Muslim and Jewish inhabitants, he met a group of Latin Christian women who addressed him, “O Sultan! You see that we are leaving. Among us are mothers, wives, daughters or sisters to the soldiers in captivity with you. These men are our support in life, and if we lose them we will lose everything. But if you leave them for our sake, you will be giving us back our lives.”
At this our hero Salahuddin smiled and he gave orders that the sons and husbands of those women were to be set free. He went even further and gave money to the women whose supporters were killed in the battle.
An irate French girl came up to the Sultan and said, “You murderer, you have killed my father, and captured both of my brothers, so there remains no one to support me!” Our hero calmly ordered that her brother be set free and then addressed her: “As for your father, he was killed in a war which he started himself and in which many innocent people were killed.” The French girl looked down full of shame and regret for her insolence with such an honourable man and with tears in her eyes, she said “Forgive me, sir! It was the bitterness of grief and the description given to us of your people and their cruelty in our country(that caused my insolence). But now I see that you are honourable enemies and I have not despaired of your forgiveness. May God curse the liars in our homeland who decieved us and depicted you as savage assassins who had desecrated our holy places. They exploited emotions (and sent us here i.e.) But when we came to know you, we could not see the truth in any of their claims.”
Western Canadian says
I have studied military history, for a rather long time. And the pathetic and false tales you try to tell about the viciousness of islam during both ‘peace’ and especially during it’s normal incredibly vicious behavior during unprovoked war, are so pathetic that you have just exposed yourself as the typical ignorant jihadi in waiting….. You just drool at the thought of murdering some infidel male, and raping his widow and daughter, now don’t you, abdula??
Don’t come here and tell lies about islam and it’s history to people who know more about it than you do.
The siege of Malta was an excellent and true example of the behavior of the west and the viciousness of islam, but you don’t want people to know about it, do you??
GS says
All what you always say is ( false tales, lies and some other disrespectful words ) provide arguments from good sources and do not rely on everything they want you to believe. Do research to learn more.
Western Canadian says
I am neither stupid enough nor ignorant enough to believe the lies you call history, about the conduct of muslims during either the pauses between wars, or your unprovoked, criminal assaults on all other peoples. You muslim lies are pathetic, as is your effort to pretend that you speak from a position of knowledge…. you have no knowledge, just lies your imam tells you. You are pathetic, and should seek out legitimate historians, not liars, like yourself.
gravenimage says
GS wrote, among reams of other bs:
Death by stoning is the lawful punishment for adultery in Judaism and Christianity (and is only applied to the womenfolk). The punishment for adultery in Islam is 100 lashes and is applied to men and women equally.
………………………………….
Good God, what crap.
Stoning hasn’t been practiced in Judaism for almost two millenia.
There are, in fact, several Hadith where Muslims excoriate Jews for *not* stoning adulterers to death.
And Christians have *never* practiced stoning—as per the actions of Jesus, and the famous story of the woman taken in adultery.
Flogging is only a penalty in Islam for certain types of “Zina”. The Hadiths are full of stonings, including those carrie out by the “Prophet” himself.
And even more salient: Muslims are carrying out stonings *right now*—in the Islamic State, Iran, and Somalia. Stoning is on the books in Nigeria, in Afghanistan, and in Aceh in Indonesia, and is openly practiced in “tribal” areas of Pakistan.
And women are far more commonly the victims than are men.
And this is not only for adultery—women have been stoned to death for premarital sex, for talking to unrelated men, and for *being the victim of gang rape*.
No Jews or Christians are practicing such barbarism—just Muslims, and in increasing numbers.
More:
Just tell me who arrested the 9/11 master mind and handed him over to US? Pakistan.
………………………………….
Hilarious. The US had to send in Navy Seals *without Pakistan’s knowledge*. Pakistan never arrested Osama bin Laden—they were the ones *giving him haven*.
And how did Pakistan react after we took out bin Laden? With threats and saber-rattling.
As for Saladin, these tales are hilarious. The image of Saladin as a model of chivalry has *nothing* to do with history, and was propagated by romantic writers in the Western tradition such as Sir Walter Scott, because he thought that a chivalrous foe made for a more interesting adversary.
Ibn Warraq, in fact, recently wrote a book on the subject—that was covered extensively here at Jihad Watch in a multi-part series.
Aren’t these Taqiyya artists pay any attention?
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/01/ibn-warraq-walter-scott-the-talisman-the-crusades-richard-i-of-england-and-saladin-myths-legends-and-40
I could, of course, address the rest of GS’s copious bs—but why bother? It’s more of the same.
Oliver says
So, GS, if Islam and Muslim countries are SO GOOD, and western countries SO BAD, GET YOURSELF, YOUR SHEEP, GOATS, WIVES, CHILDREN AND YOUR FAMILIES AND GET THE HELL OUT OF MY COUNTRY.
AND TAKE AS MANY–PREFERABLY ALL-YOUR FELLOW ( AND SISTER) MUSLIMS WITH YOU.
AND STAY THERE.
Oliver says
I am responding only to two points (?) that you make.
Killed 100 million Indians in North America. Where did you get that figure? I doubt that there were more then 1 million Indians totally in the US ( and less i would guess, in Canada -or even let us say the same) from 1492 onwards ( through the end of the 1800’s or so).
__________________________________________________
RE: A bombs of Hiroshima & Nagasaki.
My first boss was a Marine ( you know, those servicemen with guts, not the pigshit Muslims who bomb restaurants, fruit stands and elementary schools and kill babies).
He told me, ( and I have read in various -pre revisionist history) that the Japanese were prepared to fight to the death for their emperor. An invasion of the Japanese homeland would have resulted ( estimated, at that time) AT OVER 1 MILLION PEOPLE–MAINLY CIVILIANS. AND ABOUT 100,000 DEAD ALLIED SERVICEMEN AND WOMEN.
Japan started the war, and showed no mercy in Manchuria; in Korea, and elsewhere in the Pacific. ( although individual Japanese officials did issue visas to Jews-I forget the approximate number) to escape Hitler.).
Pres. Truman decided, to SAVE 500,000 JAPANESE LIVES AND 100,000 OR SO AMERICAN SERVICEMEN (AND WOMEN-ALTHOUGH WOMEN WERE NOT IN COMBAT ROLES THEN). ( 1,000,000 DEAD THROUGH AN INVASION OR 500,000 DEAD THROUGH BOMBINGS).
deja vu says
1. The claim of Islam having the most believers is incorrect. The figures are meaningless anyway because Muslims are BORN Muslim. They have no choice. And if they choose to leave Islam they are either banished from their families or killed. Were Islam to be a choice, like Christianity, you would see a massive departure of Muslims from Islam.
2. Nobody says that ‘muslims are terrorists’. The fact is that the ideology of Islam is inhuman. It is based on being the enemy of ‘the other’ and converts were made by the sword. Ask yourself why the sword features so much in Islam. Today it is believe or I behead you.There is no freedom, no joy, no initiative, no encouragement, no intellectual or religious enquiry – just strict rules, obligations, harsh penalties and a god who is a slave-master – unloving, unknowable, and unreachable. It is a religion of fear which holds its believers captive and always under threat.
3. The above reasons are why ‘muslims countries are in shit’, as you put it. And you will know that Muslims are their own worst enemies, always resorting to violence at any imagined insult to their particular strand of Islam. An ideology that is based on truth does not need to use violence and force. And if Allah is the judge of mankind, why does he require his followers to be both judge and executioner?
4. Which people are dying ‘at the moment’ in this world? Those who follow a death-cult or those who are standing up for justice, mercy, love, joy, freedom and righteousness? At the moment millions of Christians are suffering for their faith in the prisons of the Islamic world. They are being brutally tortured, beaten, shackled, denied medical care, starved, not allowed contact with the outside world, and kept in filthy prisons for years on end on trumped-up charges – usually insulting Islam or Mohammed simply because they are followers of Jesus Christ. Hundreds of thousands die each year in prison. The death sentence for ‘blasphemy’ has just been upheld for a Pakistani woman who had a sip of water on a blazing hot day and was accused of ‘contaminating’ the bowl because she is a Christian.
Man’s inhumanity to man has always been the case, but who is the more inhumane today?
Sadiq Khan says
She is a hindu from India pretending to be a muslim from Pakistan. No self righteous muslim woman would right such blasphemy from Pakistan
GS says
I wish if this people who are talking about ” muslims ” open their eyes to see what happened to muslims in BURMA do a simple research if you are looking for truth and not walikng after hate !! because all what I can read is not a self experience, it’s repeating what the BOSS media said, just be in the middle be nutral and look for the truth, look for your own experience idea, thank you.
Western Canadian says
It would be a good idea if you were to learn to speak and understand English, as your posts are pure drivel and utter gibberish. And the members of this site are VERY well informed about islam (RTC), so whatever your last line of gibberish means…. don’t lie to us, it will not work.
GS says
I speak 3 languages as I can, it’s natural ofcourse I’m not perfect :)… understand the meaning instead of correcting my english,thank you.
Western Canadian says
You do NOT speak English, your posts are utter crap.
GS says
All what you have is anger and hate, you should be more confident in yourself 🙂
Western Canadian says
You are a perfect example of projection, in accusing those who oppose your pathetic lies as having hatred…. It is obvious that your hatred of anything NOT muslim is your motivation to be here, and express your sick minded and dishonest garbage about the west, while trying to pretend that, whatever shortcomings the rest of the human race has, they are minute compared to the glaring viciousness and criminal hatred that devout muslims live by.
Champ says
You are a perfect example of projection, in accusing those who oppose your pathetic lies as having hatred…. It is obvious that your hatred of anything NOT muslim is your motivation to be here, and express your sick minded and dishonest garbage about the west, while trying to pretend that, whatever shortcomings the rest of the human race has, they are minute compared to the glaring viciousness and criminal hatred that devout muslims live by.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bravo, Western Canadian! ..spot on
deja vu says
GS
Cutting and pasting long narratives really doesn’t convince anyone. What we are more interested in is the ROOT of the problem. I contend that it is a struggle between good and evil, truth and falsehood, light and darkness.
What have you to say about that?
GS says
Thank you for your wise words, my own opinion if you want it is :
Good and evil, truth and falsehood, light and darkness all this is from the human and everyone has a brain to know the green light is to proceed in the good direction and red light provides warning, so why judging people for their belief…if I said Jesus is this gonna make me Christian ? no! so why if someone go to kill and say Allahu Akbar must be muslim ?
I am a muslim and my wife is christian and she and her family and our friends know that real Islam is not groups and ISIS doesn’t represent me.
so please understand me, I just want peace and I don’t like when people judge religions because what someone said… try to make your own experience with muslims don’t follow tales, thank you again for your question.
deja vu says
You claim, ‘Good and evil, truth and falsehood, light and darkness all this is from the human…’
But who or what inspires humans to discern the difference? God gave us a conscience. Which brings us back to a choice between the god of darkness or the God of Light and my previous post. Each person must ask themselves which one they are being influenced by. We are told in the Bible that Satan often disguises himself as an angel of light.
‘……if I said Jesus is this gonna make me Christian ? no! so why if someone go to kill and say Allahu Akbar must be muslim?’
You miss the point by miles. Firstly, nobody, MAKES anyone a Christian unless the person repents of their sins, acknowledges that Jesus is the Saviour and Redeemer of mankind, and chooses to follow Him. Because of the compulsion of Islam, Muslims commonly make the error of assuming all Europeans are automatically Christians – they aren’t. ‘Cultural’ Christians are not Biblical Christians at all. Furthermore, Jesus taught that we must love our enemies and do good to those who hate us. Compare and contrast with the teachings of Islam.
Secondly, a Muslim crying out ‘Allahu Akbar’ while he slices off someone’s head or bombs a crowded shopping mall is merely uttering the war cry of Islam. You and your friends and family may like to believe that terrorist groups do not represent Islam – and I’m glad to hear they don’t represent you – but how can you subscribe to an ideology that MANDATES violence against non-Muslims? Personally I should find such teaching repellent. Maybe you are forgetting that the peaceful verses of the Qur’an have been abrogated (cancelled) by the later Medina verses.
Finally, nobody is judging anyone by what they say, but by their actions. It isn’t a matter of opinion, anyway. It is fundamentally a spiritual problem. Islam is hostile to every other belief system in the world, not just Judaism and Christianity but to Hindus, Buddhists and even to ‘lesser’ Muslims such as those from Africa. Wherever there is a significant Muslim population there is conflict.
If Islam is the truth and it is light, why is that the case? And, as I have already asked, if Allah is the judge of mankind, why does he require his followers to be both judge and executioner?
GS says
First of all you need to know that sins are forbidden in Islam and whom do sins get punished there is no difference between a king or an employee, some can be judged in this life for their sins however they need to repents even that, and some Allah is the only judge, I suggest you to read a book who has been prohibited so they have burn a lot of it copies “the protocols of the elder of zion”, I know you’re smart to do your own opinion on it. Thank you for taking the time to write me.
deja vu says
GS
Thanks for your reply, but why are you not addressing the issues I’ve raised? I’ve asked you twice why men take matters into their own hands on Allah’s behalf if Allah is the ultimate judge? Could it be that they are given the ‘go ahead’ by Allah to carry out terrible acts of cruelty on his behalf? Youf might not want to acknowledge this but it is plain to see that this is the teaching of Islam.Surah 9 is but one example.
Why would I waste my time reading a proven anti-Jewish forgery which inspired Hitler to try to destroy the Jewish people during the holocaust? More importantly, what is your motive for asking me to do so?
GS says
To answer your question from the book and the word of Allah :
Surat Al-Ghashiyah : “21” So remind, [O Muhammad]; you are only a reminder. “22”You are not over them a controller. “23”However, he who turns away and disbelieves – “24”Then Allah will punish him with the greatest punishment. “25”Indeed, to Us is their return. “26”Then indeed, upon Us is their account.”
To answer to why I ask you to read that book :
Everyone is free to make his own decision, if they say to me that the bible is false I have to make my own decision as I have a copy at home so I am not anti-muslim because I did so…
You seems intelligent and you have faith, so if Islam for you is so clear that it’s a religion of vilence, because I respect Christians and believe in their book I was thinking you might want to do a research on that book and on ” talmud and christianity “.
deja vu says
Surat Al-Ghashiyah : “21” So remind, [O Muhammad]; you are only a reminder. “22”You are not over them a controller. “23”However, he who turns away and disbelieves – “24”Then Allah will punish him with the greatest punishment. “25”Indeed, to Us is their return. “26”Then indeed, upon Us is their account.”
__________________________________________________
That opaque piece of text is not an answer to my questions, which were clear and to the point.
I believe you are resorting to dissimulation.
GS says
My answer was clear in that Allah said HE IS the judge whenever everybody return to him in the end and I think the words were clear ( Indeed, to Us is their return, Then indeed, upon Us is their account. ) there is no dissimulation.
I am not here for winning or losing and I am not trying to convince people, I am sharing ideas as I am having some different ideas too, without treating people in any bad way it’s all about respect and this is mutual between you and me that’s why our debate was rich of ideas. Thank you.
Western Canadian says
Of course he is. He has nothing else to offer. His pathetic efforts to pretend that fictional, or more accurately outright fraudulent tales of muslim nobility are of some significance, is typical of the devout muslim inability to actually think, but to merely parrot what they have been force fed.
Western Canadian says
“I suggest you to read a book who has been prohibited so they have burn a lot of it copies “the protocols of the elder of zion”, I know you’re smart to do your own opinion on it. Thank you for taking the time to write me.”
This is beyond pathetic. That book, a known fraud, is often discussed in poliscie classes, as my own experience has shown. Only among the most ignorant of peoples, either in the muslim hell holes or in the rest of the world, take that piece of garbage seriously. That you offer up this as a serious text, again shows that you are less than even shabbily educated, and very, very stupid. The book is NOT banned, and we do no burn books in the west… anyone who wants a copy of it, can get one, but only the most hate filled and vicious want it. Which is why you have read it.
gravenimage says
The meretricious GS wrote:
so why if someone go to kill and say Allahu Akbar must be muslim ?
……………………………
No one kills while screaming “Allahu Akbar” *except* for pious Muslims. But it is not, of course, just this phrase—slaughtering Infidels, “heretics”, and apostates is entirely Islamic, and this can be found in all the canonical texts of Islam and the model of the “Prophet”. This is what Islam teaches.
More:
I am a muslim and my wife is christian…
…………………………
This is *supposed* to posit GS as “moderate”, but it does not. Muslim men can marry Christian women—or rape them or take them as sex slaves. But it doesn’t work the other way round—Infidel men may not marry Muslim women.
And any children resulting from Muslim men and Infidel women must be raised Muslim.
More:
First of all you need to know that sins are forbidden in Islam…
…………………………
What GS won’t tell is what constitutes a sin in Islam—a woman chatting with an unrelated male is considered a sin, but butchering Infidels and taking their women as sex slaves is perfectly Halal.
More:
I suggest you to read a book who has been prohibited so they have burn a lot of it copies “the protocols of the elder of zion”
…………………………
This is a well documented tsarist forgery—no Jew has ever acted on this document.
Conversely, though, pious Muslims regularly act on the sanguinary Qur’an, the Hadith, and the Sira—and we have the bloody body count to prove it—24,356 Jihad terror attacks just since 9/11.
BlueRaven says
There is something remarkable about the inbreeds that they are unable to read and comprehend what they read simultaneously. I guess you are a product of an over 100th Generation of inbred gene-pool. Pakisatani or any other Satani, makes no difference they always play the finger pointing blame game. In addition they have no ability to analyze an article before sprouting out loud their worthless conclusion.
I didn’t doubt for a micro sec she is anything else than a trapped Muslim woman inside that evil vale of Islam. She is trapped because she doesn’t comprehend full gory of Islam.
She has written to a Pakistani Newspaper, Pakistan Today. Her name is Eiynah – which is a Muslim name. She is a blogger.
Collecting all these facts together, a simple search on any search engine, voilà : you can read her profile. She states : She is a Pakisatani/Canadian/Muslim/Blogger.
Did you get that? Go and get gone.
Rezali Mehil says
This woman is pretending to be a muslima …. she is a dog ….yes that is what she is …a blasphemous black dog…and a lover of white penis…..no more need be said.
More Later …
TRezalil
deja vu says
Delightful. You’ve said enough. Please don’t bother to ‘send more’ later.
Western Canadian says
Wondered when you’d show up to vent your ignorance and hatred. We wouldn’t have missed you, if you had stayed away.
Jen says
…and a lover of white penis….
——————————–
You say this like that’s a bad thing, Rezali!
What is the sentiment behind that comment anyway? Is that to imply that she is somehow a wh*re?
A person still calling themselves a Muslim but yet exposing and embarrassing Islam from within is the most hated of all. If they’re a non-Muslim then it’s not as bad because they’re just a dirty dog anyway. And who listens to a dog?
gravenimage says
The vile Rezali Mehil wrote:
This woman is pretending to be a muslima …. she is a dog ….yes that is what she is …a blasphemous black dog…and a lover of white penis…..no more need be said.
……………………………….
Of course—anyone who dares question any aspect of Islam must love “white penis”.
*This* is the caliber of Muslim “thought”—it’s not pretty…
Old African lady with no teeth says
There are many people who are like Ben Affleck in the west. It is shame they are ignorant and naïve. What people like this need to do is just sit down and read the Koran.
R Cole says
Let’s face it Ben lives in another world.
But in his defense – often – in the left-wing press these issues are not even presented.
Some of the writers/ contributors are shockingly unaware of any of these issues. The Guardian has in the past been extremely selective.
That is why when you listen to them – their arguments have remained the same for 8 years or so. And that is why Maher’s comments comes as such a jolt.
Human rights reports – and religious freedoms reports alike – if it offends Islam – or Muslims are the perpetrators – the issue won’t see the light of day. If it does – as the Guardian is so famous for – it would be given special attention – i.e. a Muslim writer – with religious interests in hand – minimizes or negates the significance of the event.
These Muslim writiers are there to help the reader on how to unthink the story.
But in the face of the genocidal campaign being waged – in the name of Islam – the pressure is turned up daily for more concrete reporting and debate.
:: ::
I’ve been to the Islamic world and know that this false ‘Islamophobia’ charge doesn’t deal with issues like religious freedoms – I heard of people being arrested for being ‘renegades’ while I was there. Yet Islamophobia – would accuse me and anyone else of being ‘hateful’ [of all Muslims in the entire world] – for criticizing this.
And what does it mean when ex-Muslims are called ‘Islamophobes’?
Possibly that it has nothing to do with truth and what is right.
:: ::
Let’s hope Ben – pops his head outside of his cuckoo clock for a moment – and listens – to the broader debate on this issue.
This is the Muslim who we want to be listening to – those who would say I know there are these issues within the religion – but I don’t want to live like that.
For Islam – three words reform, reform reform.
On the other side we need to understand the issue we face – if Islamic-types are saying – we want a global Islamic state – then what they have actually said is – I’M DECLARING WAR ON YOU – war on our countries – war on our institutions – war on our way of life. And not all of this may be violent. But understand its aim.
jewdog says
Let’s not confuse fame with intellect.
GS says
I am not here to fight you or to hate you, reading your words and how you talk to me make’s me feel your anger and hate that’s all…. Thank you for taking the time to write me.
Blitz2b says
GS, I have read your accusations and it seems you are the one with the most hate for western civilization. I understand why you have this mentality, it is the same type of logic that members of Isis use when they capture and behead people who they feel are violating allaha’s laws. This is the brutality found in the very fabric of Islam. You wonder why Islamic counties are the ” shits” it is because the whole of the Koran is filled with hate for the unbelievers. Islam has added nothing new or beneficial to humankind. On the contrary it is the one ideology on earth that has obliterated numerous of cultures and massacred millions of humans. 270 million to be exact. It is the only religion in the world that needs human agents to keep it from collapsing. The POTUS has to lie about Islam’s fake peacefulness every time a Muslim commits a horrid crime in the name of Allah. David Cameron does the same, so do 90% of the world’s media and leftists liberal politicians. Islam needs all these agents of Satan to survive. How can anyone in their right mind say this evil ideology is from God, when it is clear that the evil one is it’s author. Mohammed the prophet of Islam was an evil man who waged war against everyone who disagreed with him. He beheaded 800-900 Jewish men and boys and took their women as slaves. Your unholy prophet even took a young girl of 6 years as bride and rapped her at age nine. He also lusted after his adopted son’s wife and finally took her as well. How Muslims in their blind adoration to this con man simply ignore his lifestyle amazes me. This is the reason why your Muslim countries are the” shits” because they are all competing on who can emulate the example of the best” example” of all mankind. Your Allah surely did send the shittiest of men to be his final messenger….. Carry on your delusions and continue worshipping this criminal.
GS says
I am not hating any person here I am just discussing ideas with people in this website, where everyone share his points of view but I hope if every one can understand that we’re not here to attribute people with names… and let the freedom of speech for everyone and support ideas with historical and real arguments and not judging people because they are different or their ideas are, because it’s gonna be unreasonable to seek for something and we don’t give ( diversity and difference )
Western Canadian says
Since you have to this point done none of the noble or intelligent things you have referred to in this latest post, do you really expect to be taken seriously?? Of course you do, you are very poorly educated, and frankly, not even of average intelligence. No one, but no one, other than an ignorant muslim, would be foolish and ignorant enough to believe the pathetic lies you have told about muslims at war, and how noble they are. Hey, why don’t you tell some lies about the unprovoked attacks on India, by your ‘noble’ muslim mass-murderers??
Jen says
GS
After reading your comments, I cannot help but have ill thoughts about you. People who think like you are the reason why Islam, in all its savage glory, is still doing what it does today. You might not be the one butchering people but you act as a form of resistance which prevents Islam being exposed for what it really is. Collectively, this would be you, along with millions like you who create this resistance. Once the “moderates” get out the way, speaking the truth about Islam will be a much easier task.
If you really are as decent as you try to make yourself out to be, why can’t you allow the truth to be spoken?
Western Canadian says
Another pathetic example of a muslim trying to play the victim…. You come here and spread your lies and gibberish, and when someone rejects your drivel, you whine and complain, and pretend that YOU have been attacked, when you have merely been replied to and rejected. Pathetic.
Inka Hutz says
I have read all your posts here GS. Thank you for being polite and respectful of the opinions of others. Although I can’t say I agree with you, I am not historian enough to argue intelligently either.
I don’t believe anyone else in this forum has addressed your arguments,factually or respectfully either. Thank you for your patience.
Mirren10 says
Inka Hutz said:
”@Philip Jihadski, I forgot to mention that most Kurdish people are Christian, at least nominally.”
Wrong.
The majority of Kurds are Sunni Muslim, belonging to the Shafi school.
Texas Sandman says
Islam must be confronted on it’s weakest point…Muhammad’s claim to be a direct recipient of the words of Allah.
For direct words directly from the powerful Allah, the book is REALLY defensive about it’s own authenticity (see 4:82, 10:37, 11.13 for just a few examples), not to mention unspeakably unreadable in places. Hardly seems the work of the god of the universe.
The Bible starts with “In the beginning…..”, the Koran “This book is not to be doubted..”. One focuses on God and His creation, the other a book.
Christian apologists can claim the Bible to be a myth, and end up getting a book deal or high academic post….a Muslim apologist (if one existed) would get death for claiming the Koran a myth. Darkness hates light, and nowhere is there healthy debate and apologetics being practiced in Islam. Textual study, to be sure. Apologetics, never.
You can’t redeem the unredeemable.
deja vu says
You state, ‘Christian apologists can claim the Bible to be a myth, and end up getting a book deal or high academic post…’
Good post, Texas Sandman, but an ‘apologist’ defends his faith, not the reverse. Apologetics is the branch of Christianity that deals with the defense and establishment of the Christian faith.
Oliver says
I am not a Christian, but agree with you. As to lefties–recently, the new CEO (I believe, if not, the pres.) of Apple announced that he is a homosexual. There were cheers from the lefties. (Figurative, as far as I know); Then he announced that he is believer in CREATIONIST–THAT G-d created the world. Then (again, figuratively, as far as I know) boos.
About the same time, A LEFTIST WRITER/BLOGGER ETC–WHO WROTE FOR AMONGST OTHER LEFTISTS/ PROGRESSIVE GARBAGE (IN MY OPINION) THE NEW YORK TIMES, ANNOUNCED THAT SHE TOO BELIEVES IN CREATIONISM.
She has been (figuratively, possibly literally) boycotted and her posts now considered heresy. (I believe it was Hot Air Express or Morning Report that had this- within the last few weeks).
PGuud says
I’m not impressed. This is apologetics for Islam: through reformation, Islam can become the rosy religion that “peaceful” Muslims know it to be at its core.
Rubbish!
1. As others have pointed out, Islam is irreformable.
2. After all is said and done, Muhammad was a blood-thirsty tyrant–among many, many other vile attributes.
How can it be that a child-molesting, mass-murdering POS is deemed a prophet? That is insanity realized.
If we’re going to have an honest discussion about Islam, let’s discuss how we are going to virtually erase it from existence.
Islam is on the march, and this woman wants to discuss fantasy. (This is where I snicker.)
Islam: where freedom ends and slavery begins.
GS says
Instead of talking with no respect you should thank me as I am respecting your ideas and I am not calling you liar ( this is called respect the other opinion ) then I am the only Muslim between you and responding to you ( this is called: I am giving you from my time ) and this is respect.
Western Canadian says
Responding to people who reject your gibberish and drivel by accusing them of hating, is NOT showing respect… and neither is offering up the gibberish and drivel in the first place.
The majority of the people on this site are much to well informed, and much to intelligent to believe the pathetic efforts to mislead and misinform, that are all you have to offer.
Champ says
Did he just state that we should be thanking him? lol! ..oh, I guess we should be grateful that he isn’t being mean or striking at our necks, eh?
Jen says
GS
The reason why you are not receiving any respect is because you are not behaving like a person who is worthy of it. We’re talking about genuine moral principles here. Not the Islamic version of what is deemed right or wrong. Non-Muslims never seem to be able to come to common ground with Muslims in this respect because Muslims like this person here, have no grasp of fundamental concepts. You are twisting things and then you ask why people won’t respect you?
I would love nothing more than to have your “religion” exposed for the lie that it is and for it be wiped off the face of the planet. That time will come. No doubt about it. You can sit here making excuses for it, or you can join the civilized world and help to expose it. You’re choosing the former. So I guess you’re perfectly fine with what Muslims have been doing right? It’s not bothering your conscience enough to stop being an apologist anyway.
GS says
Have any of you been with a muslim before ? I don’t think so, everyone is judging a book from it’s cover, thank you all for your open mind.
Jen says
GS
“Have any of you been with a Muslim before?”
Yes.
Your fellow Muslims have terrorized my relatives living overseas since before my mother was born.
The most recent attack involved your fellow Muslims ambushing my uncle’s house in the middle of the night, dragging him and his wife out of bed and holding them hostage. They also shot my aunt the same night.
This is ignoring all the other terror attacks you bastard Muslims have done over the years. Even threatening my grandmother with a machete! Why? Because she didn’t have the salt he came to ask for. After sponging off my family, and the one day she couldn’t produce it and voila! Threats and violence from a typical Muslim scumbag.
Another thing. Your bastard Muslim brothers and sisters have stolen our land. Still sitting on our land and not paying the tax. When I get my resources together I’m going to shove every last bastard off our property and reclaim it. Like everywhere- Muslims think they own what isn’t theirs. If it belongs to a filthy non-Muslim, dirty dog, then it’s all fine to right???!! That’s not stealing right??
Eff off with your sick, sick, sick thoughts. I’ve had enough of you people for one day.
GS says
What story is this ? which land you’re talking about ? and all what you’ve said are not muslim actions.
Jen says
You f*ckers make me sick.
“Judging a book by its cover.”
As if. Ask all the non-Muslims around the world, what they think about Muslims. I’m talking about the ones being subjugated by Muslims all over the world. When has it ever been different? Tell me. When? Everyone says the same thing about your coreligionists, even the people in the West. Funny, how that happened..coincidence? I don’t think so.
I wish I could meet you in person you hopeless SOB. All twisted stories you people tell. You are ALWAYS THE VICTIMS. Even when you attempt to murder someone and you terrorize people by attacking in the middle of the night, you have an EXCUSE for doing this! I kid you not. Apparently it was “being pushed to the wall” that time. UGH. There are no words. None. That I have to fully describe how I feel about your religion and people like you who are DEFENDING something which is BLATANTLY EVIL.
Go to hell. You belong there.
Don’t worry. When your brothers and sisters in Satan come after us, we are waiting! Plenty of target shooting practice will do me nicely.
GS says
Talk about yourself that should be more wise and specific, don’t talk about all the non-muslim because not all people share the hate that you have and talk dirty as you, some people think before they talk and some not so do not put every one in the same bag, talking about people in the west? I live in a european country and my wife is european and her family is christian and our friends are and all people around me too… the difference is that people judge real actions not tales, and all what you still repeating is nothing from what Islam ask us to do, disrespecting me doesn’t mean you’re right. Thank you.
Wellington says
I’ve read your posts here on this thread and they are utterly unconvincing. As dda has written, you and other Muslims never write anything that makes Islam look good, though I think you are oblivious of this.
But know this: With each passing year more millions of people are becoming disgusted with Islam and with the excuses made for Islam. Islam is also a huge and expensive pain-in-the ass. Just look at the countless hours that intelligence agencies across the world have to spend dealing with one thing—–Islamic terrorism. And look at the billions spent upon security (e.g., at airports) for one reason above all—–to stop more Islamic terrorism. Just since 9/11 there have been over 24,000 documented Islamic terrorist attacks worldwide. And this doesn’t take into account the tens of thousands of intended Islamic terrorist attacks thwarted by various authorities.
Islam was founded by a psychopath and pedophile. It’s been all downhill from there. Islam is spiritual fascism and NOTHING you have written on this thread reverses this assessment of Islam. Islam is horrible. It is an eternal enemy of liberty and is deep bad news for mankind. Oh yeah, btw, there is no Allah. Allah was Mohammed’s sock puppet and (how convenient) never denied Mohammed a single sexual desire that he had. Mohammed was a fraud, Allah doesn’t exist, the Koran was made up (and it is turgid reading material to be sure) and Muslims have been had big time. Now get lost.
Champ says
Wellington wrote:
“… you and other Muslims never write anything that makes Islam look good, though I think you are oblivious of this.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
True, Wellington; and they are oblivious to the fact that islam is inherently evil, and how they overlook these things is simply beyond me!
Jen says
It’s funny that this Muslim, “GS” comments on my “dirty talk” and how not everyone talks as “dirty as me.”
Interesting.
Of course, this “dirty talk” rather pales in comparison to the suffering caused my Muslims all over the world. But of course, Muslims cannot help but criticise the petty things that people do, in order to distract from the actions of their coreligionists and discredit people who complain about it.
This idiot behaves like I have no right to be incensed by Islam and the behaviour of “moderate” Muslims like himself who openly defend something which is evil. Never stopping to take responsibility for the atrocities that can be directly attributed to the “religion” which this individual has submitted himself to.
And don’t imply *who* I can and cannot speak for. I will rightly speak on behalf of my own family, myself, and all the victims of Islamic violence, both past and present.
Are *you* not speaking on behalf of all “moderate” Muslims by making the claims you have made?
I’ve *read* your Islamic texts, and I know *exactly* what it commands Muslims to do so quit insulting our intelligence.
“Real actions, not tales.”
You call my family’s suffering “tales”? What a way to put a brand on suffering. Call them “tales” so as to minimise the atrocity.
I don’t care whether you live in a European country or not. It obviously hasn’t caused any light to be shone on your Muslim logic which you have exhibited here in your numerous posts.
And stop repeating that your wife is “Christian.” You mean Christian before she married you? “Culturally Christian.” Ha. Please. If she believes in the gentle nature of Jesus, there is no way that any Christian who knew about Muhammad would be able to prevent themselves from criticising him. A rapist, mass murderer, thief, pedophile? Well really. You must have put a muzzle on her so she doesn’t open up that little topic.
You are dog. Yeah, that’s right. A dog. I know you Muslims hate that insult. You try to use it on us but it’s not insulting at all. In fact, we love dogs! They are wonderful animals, unlike Muslims.
gravenimage says
Re GS, there is *nothing* more islamic than sponging off infidels, kidnapping them, and stealing their land—except perhaps for raping and butchering them.
The “Prophet” made a career of this.
And to Jen, I’m so sorry to hear about the suffering of you family under islam.
dumbledoresarmy says
You know what makes me laugh? No less than three mohammedans – two new ones as well as one that I shall not name but whom everyone knows – showed up on this thread.
And their “contributions” would, in the eyes of any new non-Muslim visitor with a functioning BS detector, do nothing whatever to make Islam look good.
For example: GS solemnly urging Western Canadian to go and read the vile and disgusting concoction – which is a barefaced plagiarism into the bargain – the “protocols”!! As if it were some sort of fountain of truth!! ROFLMAO, talk about shooting himself in the foot. After he said that, *no-one* sane and decent would be wanting to listen to even one more word he said.
(And, into the bargain, by so doing, he casually exposed the virulent antisemitism that is part and parcel of Standard Islam; for more on *that*, one may consult Andrew Bostom’s encyclopedic compilation of original texts, “The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism”, which shows that Jew-hatred is hardwired into the core texts of Islam and has led to many Muslim atrocities against and much Muslim oppression of Jews, throughout the past 14 centuries. Or one may consult Martin Gilbert, “In Ishmael’s House”, which basically deals with the same topic: Muslim hatred and mistreatment of Jews qua Jews).
voegelinian says
“No less than three mohammedans – two new ones as well as one that I shall not name but whom everyone knows – showed up on this thread.
And their “contributions” would, in the eyes of any new non-Muslim visitor with a functioning BS detector, do nothing whatever to make Islam look good.”
But their contributions, by bad-cop contrast, might help to make Eiynah’s Fantasy Good Muslim look better.
Mick Ronson of Australia says
Not to rain on anyone’s parade, but is this person for real? I’m sorry but I’ve become hardened by this horrible ideology into disbelieving even when they make reasonable noises.
voegelinian says
Sound instincts.
DiMu says
Hollywood stars have the brains of gnats and the egos of giants. They are one of the reasons that American popular culture is so banal, superficial and irrelevant.
Luciano says
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again….Why bother with the thoughts of actors. Seeking their opinion on geopolitics is like having a toothache and going to see a proctologist…..
Oliver says
Luciano wrote:
Why bother with the thoughts of actors. Seeking their opinion on geopolitics is like having a toothache and going to see a proctologist…..
Liberals, Islamist apologists etc HAVE TO SEE A PROCTOLOGIST FOR A TOOTHACHE.
THEIR HEADS ARE UP THEIR ASSHOLES.
Dennis Trisker says
I am a liberal in most things. But I have lived in Muslim countries. Liberals are to fast in becoming un-liberal. When they defend Jihadi Islam they are defending one of the most orthodox, feudal teachings that exist. In fact these “liberals” are betraying their liberal focus!
Wellington says
I am a conservative, Dennis, in virtually all things (though I am not religious) but I agree with what you posted. The great irony, as you indicated, in the continued defense by so many on the Left of the spiritual fascism which is Islam is that this religion, as Bertrand Russell noted almost a century ago (and Russell was a very liberal person as well as being an atheist), is the only major faith which is totalitarian in structure and ideology. In short, it is actually a far-right spiritual fascism and to see leftists defend this monstrous and reactionary excuse of a religion is not only disconcerting but wryly comical as well. They know not what they do. In short, they are fools. My guess is that their faux sympathy with “the other,” combined with a too skeptical view of Western Civilization, and a general kind of ignorance, all make for their indefensible defense of what is, simply, the most horrible religion ever developed by man.
Thankfully, more and more liberals (e.g., Bill Maher and yourself) have come to realize that Islam makes no distinction between Western conservatives and liberals and it, with heinous, freedom-crushing doctrines aplenty, is coming for us all. If there is anything that liberals and conservatives should be in agreement on in our time, it is that Islam is a highly intolerant ideology which does not value at all many things that all sensible people, of whatever political persuasion, should cherish, such as real freedom, true tolerance and equality under the law, all of which Islam stands in complete opposition to.
I welcome liberals like yourself to the anti-jihad cause. Of course liberals and conservatives have many differences, but we don’t want to kill each other over them. Muslims aplenty, in huge numbers actually, do however want to maim or kill when their faith is criticized or mocked (I mean how many Baptists or Orthodox Jews or Buddhist monks want to kill you if you criticize or mock their faith?). Time for most everyone, conservative and liberal, Christian or agnostic, Buddhist or atheist, Jewish or Sikh, Hindu or Confucianist, et al., to make common cause against the monstrosity, the spiritual straitjacket, the misogynistic, control-freak, freedom-crushing religion which is Islam.
Marc Roche says
Thank you for publishing this….I’m going to recommend it to Salon and Slate.
Mike says
I’m a Muslim and I’m very thankful for what Ben did. Maher and Harris may be atheists but they’ve always shown particularly strong bias against Islam than they do say, Jews blowing up Arab children in “self defense”. In fact, Mahers response what, it’s awful but maybe Palestinians should just get over losing Palestine.
Jen says
Of course you’re grateful. You’re a Muslim and you don’t think your religious texts are abomination, even when they are. You wouldn’t still be calling Muhammad a prophet from God and the Qur’an, a book from God if you had a real problem with it. A guess you’re a “moderate” then.
It’s got nothing to do with bias. They are criticising Islam based purely on facts. Their criticisim can be directly supported by your own religious texts as well as over 20,000 deadly jihadist attacks since 9/11. And supported by the ghastly way that Islamic law has victimised people anywhere that it is has been implemented. You all need to wake up and start being honest about this matter so the world can start addressing it.
Jay Boo says
Save it, Mike
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad talked of genocide against the Jews of Israel and even denied the holocaust while former Nazi slave camp factory collaborator German Daimler Chrysler collaborated business partnerships within Iran.
And
The Muslim world collectively said good.
Mirren10 says
”Jews blowing up Arab children in “self defense”
The Israelis finally defended themselves against the rockets being rained on them by Hamas, with the intent of murdering Israeli civilians.
The Israelis bent over backwards to warn civilians of defensive attacks, telling them to leave the target zones, with leaflets, phone calls, texts, etc. Hamas told its people to *stay put*.
Hamas **deliberately** chose to use their own people as *human shields*, and deliberately placed rocket launchers in schools, playgrounds, hospitals, and private homes. This is fully admitted by Hamas *themselves*.
You’re talking through your arse, mohammedan.
”In fact, Mahers response what, it’s awful but maybe Palestinians should just get over losing Palestine.”
More crap. There never was a ‘palestine’. There has been a Jewish presence in Israel for thousands of years. Archaelogical evidence, written evidence, etc. Where is there any evidence of ‘palestinians’ ? Nowhere.
Israel withdraw from Gaza in 2005, and left a whole infrastructure, including greenhouses, for the ‘palestinians’. And what did these Neanderthals do ? Destroyed the greenhouses, failed to repair the infrastructure, and used the millions in ‘aid’, not to build schools, hospitals, or affordable housing for the ‘palestinians’, but to build luxury hotels and mansions for the Hamas bigwigs, and build tunnels to destroy Israel from within.
The Hamas Charter states its mission is to destroy Israel.
Bugger off, mohammedan, you’re a vicious idiot.
Lizabee says
Trying to reform Islam is futile—like the BORG—“Resistance is futile”…”You will be assimilated.” The word of Allah is unalterable.
Champ says
;(
Champ says
😉
Champ says
;D
Champ says
🙁
Shayne says
I would really like to see Ben, reply to this letter.
Mirren10 says
”I would really like to see Ben, reply to this letter.”
You never will.
Even though the letter fails to address the biggest problem with islam, its *adherents*, it just doesn’t fit his fantasy. He’s a typical Hollywood ‘liberal’, who thinks because he’s made a few films, and is a star, God save the mark, his ignorant and uninformed ‘opinions’ carry weight.
pete says
Odd that the specter of the “false flag” operation (e.g., 9-11) is not touched on within the dialog.
gravenimage says
So 9/11 was a “false flag” operation— I suppose all 24,356 Jihad terror attacks just since that date are “false flag” operations, as well, as well as all the horror of the Islamic State. Just some thing pulled off by the CIA or Mossad or the Illuminati to “make Islam look bad”…sarc/off
Vegabond says
I can very well understand about the horrible experience this poor lady has to go through, living in a crazy country like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia can be compared with prison..Probably worst than that..
However the topic of the debate wasn’t about women rights in Islam vs. Christianity or Judaism? It was about predictable “drain reporting” of people like Bill Maher & Sam Harris. You don’t need to be a specialist to recognize that their criticism is more like a report of a drain inspector sent out with the one purpose of opening and examining the drains of the religion to be reported upon… Why to single out Ben for criticizing the stereotyping relating to the Middle East, Arabs, and Muslims, who are all lumped together and projected as if they eat infidels in the breakfast and behead people in the lunch…Angelina Jolie, Rehana, Selena, Charlie Sheen, Penelope Cruz have had the taste of full blown attacks for challenging this stereo typing..
I am not sure whether it’s an error of judgment or intention but like Bill Maher and Sam Harris this letter tries to paint Islamic version of Pakistan as a role model. How clever it is to talk about worst examples like Pakistan, Iran or Saudi Arabia and not mention Egypt, Maldives, Indonesia, India, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Algeria, Kuwait, Oman, and so many other countries. How different ISIS is from LRA?
gravenimage says
Vagabond wrote, among reams of other bs:
How clever it is to talk about worst examples like Pakistan, Iran or Saudi Arabia and not mention Egypt, Maldives, Indonesia, India, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Algeria, Kuwait, Oman, and so many other countries…
…………………………….
Vagabond would have you believe that India is a Muslim country—it *is not*. But you would never know it from the degree of Muslim violence there.
How about the others? Well, we have mass church burnings and murders of Copts in Egypt, the Maldives just added amputation to its laws and recently sentenced a rape victim to flogging and pious Muslims there destroyed all the Buddhist statuary in the national museum, Aceh in Indonesia is imposing Shari’ah on Infidels and now has stoning on the books, Qatar has funded Jihad terrorism, and Bahrain imposed full Shari’ah law earlier this year, complete with amputation and stonings.
I could go on, but why bother?
The implication that only a few Muslim countries are “extreme” and that the ones he has listed are “moderate” could not be more false.
Hana says
Dear Eiynah:
I feel for you, I was born and raised a Muslim too.
Yet I pray that you discover what I’ve discovered and learnt about Islam.
Islam, Quran, Hadith do not curb the women’s right to study,work or be herself.
It is the people who have decided to take islam and transform it to obey and support the very traditions islam was revealed to compress.
Traditions that people won’t let go off. And trust me, you give any religion to these people they will still change it so that it supports their traditions. It is sad.
vegabond says
Gravenimage- Your rational is based on deep rooted belief towards a particular religion, nobody is giving them clean chit for human rights violation; however there is a difference in exceptions and trend. These countries might have experienced some violation but quoting exceptions as a general trend could be best termed as “clever” but away from facts.
India has the third largest Muslim population in the world, so doesn’t it make sense to include them? In terms of violence, you should know ‘Muslims and other minorities (Christians and Sikhs) in India have seen officially encouraged massacre or persecution on number of times. What makes you think that why Indian PM was not given a visa to travel to USA for good 9 years? He is accused of inciting violence towards other religions and case is under jurisdiction…but incidents of these sorts don’t make all Hindus bad or murderers. No religion, including Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism or Buddhism can claim innocence. They are partners in crime….
I am not in a habit of bashing other religions as I believe that it’s always individual who is responsible of his actions. However in your previous posts, you have conveniently cherry picked all wrong things of Islam without giving any explanation as to what made Hitler kill so many innocents Jews? Is it not the content of New Testament which is responsible of extreme hate and violence in last 2000 years? Are they not labeled as “sons of devils” and murders? This resulted in persecutions and 109 times expulsions of Jews in Christian countries. History does not start from 9/11 as some of us want the world to believe in, it includes bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki..Which was blessed by the Pope..Same was the case of “holocaust”.. Happened on the name of God…? WW1…WW2,Iraq Occupation, how would you justify violence against women in Christian countries like Congo,which is called rape capital of the world or Uganda which runs LRA,a replica of ISIS…
My intention is not to malign these countries or Christianity/Islam/Judais/Hinduism, it’s not the problem of the religion but deep rooted cultural and political differences. That’s why even in Pre Islamic time Persia was called barbaric?
Dennis says
I have seen the enemy firsthand, and it is Islam. The U.K. and Germany both have experienced the influx of Islam, and both countries want it purged from within their borders. Know this: I know the enemy. I have fought it, and I will continue to do so. Should the enemy gain a foothold within the borders of my homeland, patriots will rise against it. We will not falter until it is extinguished. Islam is not peace. Islam is mayhem. Live by the sword, die by the sword.