Bill Maher deserves some credit for sticking to his positions on Islam, jihad and Sharia, despite enormous pressure and an increasing torrent of abuse from his Leftist former friends and allies. In this interview, however, he reveals some of his own limitations: he has only a glancing knowledge of the subject matter, and is ill-equipped to answer challenges because he doesn’t realize the fallacies inherent in those challenges, any more than do those who are giving him the challenge.
Marlow Stern of the Daily Beast charges that he makes “generalizations about Islam,” and then Maher answers by arguing that it is perfectly reasonable to make generalizations about Muslims. Maher’s point is sound, but both he and Stern are failing to distinguish between Islam and Muslims. What people continually fail to grasp is the distinction between the texts and teachings of a faith, which are matters of record, and the many different ways in which people understand those texts and teachings. To say that all the schools of Islamic law teach violent jihad and the subjugation of unbelievers under the rule of Islamic law is simply a statement of fact. It can be proven or disproven with reference to the actual teachings of the schools. But if they do all teach this, and they do, that doesn’t mean that every Muslim follows those teachings, any more than the fact that the Catholic Church teaches against contraception means that every Catholic opposes contraception. There is a spectrum of belief, knowledge, and fervor among Muslims as there is among believers in every belief system, religious or not.
What I object to is the violent, authoritarian, aggressive and supremacist program of jihad that is codified in Islamic doctrine. All too often any examination or discussion of this doctrine is waved away with a reference to things Christians did hundreds of years ago, and to passages in the Bible that are purportedly as violent as those in the Qur’an. But these doctrines are actually the problem, for they can and do incite Muslims to hatred and violence. Of course many Muslims are not thus incited, and many couldn’t care less about these doctrines. But that doesn’t change the fact that some Muslims are attempting to implement this deeply traditional supremacist program. The longer we don’t address this, or caricature pointing it out, as Stern does here, as tantamount to saying that “all Muslims are generally bad,” these texts and teachings will continue to incite jihad violence, with no one even considering any ways to stop this. (It is, of course, a staple of the Leftist/Islamic supremacist response to foes of jihad terror to claim that they’re saying that “all Muslims are terrorists.”)
Finally, there is in this another example of the low level of the public discourse today: not only does Stern caricature Maher’s position as “all Muslims are generally bad,” but he also offers as a counter to this the fact that five of the last twelve Nobel Peace Prize winners were Muslim. Given that Barack Obama and Yaser Arafat are Nobel Peace Prize winners, this is not an impressive argument: the Nobel Peace Prize is notoriously politicized. But what are we supposed to make of these Muslim Nobel Peace Prize winners? Did the Qur’an and Muhammad inspire them to take the actions that led them to win the Peace Prize? Does their existence somehow make it improper or wrong or bigoted to point out that jihadis worldwide repeatedly point to the Qur’an and Sunnah to justify their actions and make recruits among peaceful Muslims, and that something should be done about this?
“Bill Maher: Yes, I Can Generalize About Muslims,” by Marlow Stern, Daily Beast, October 16, 2014:
The Ben Affleck episode on Real Time was just great television. On no other show would you see an A-list actor from a newly released blockbuster like Gone Girl getting fired up over Islam. What did you make of that heated exchange? He seemed pretty fired up the moment Sam Harris sat down.
Well, I’m done talking about it. My view is I’ve said what I had to say about it the week before, when I did a formal monologue at the end of the show that I wrote very carefully, and they were responding to that. I will say that we legitimately started a national debate on something that needs to be talked about, and it’s very gratifying to finally see that a heck of a lot of liberals understand that the real liberals in this debate are people like me and Sam.
But when you do make generalizations about Islam…
…It’s not a generalization! First of all, this is nonsense—this idea that you can’t make generalizations. All of knowledge is based on generalizations. No one can interview all 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. It’s a dumb argument. Read any history book and it’ll use the word “Christendom,” but they didn’t interview every Christian in the 1600s. We’re talking facts. We’re talking polls that have been done over decades, time and time again telling us what people are thinking about the world. So this idea that we are making generalizations? It’s just stupid. We understand that 1.5 billion people don’t all think alike and that there are differences from country-to-country, but you can’t advance any sort of knowledge without making generalizations and it doesn’t mean they’re inaccurate. To say that it’s a widespread belief in the Muslim world that death is the appropriate response to leaving the religion is just a statement of fact. We should stop arguing about that and move on from it and figure out what we can do about it. To dismiss that is just like saying, “Global warming doesn’t exist.”
If all Muslims are generally bad, then where does five of the last twelve Nobel Peace Prize winners, all of whom are Muslim—people like Malala Yousafzai—fit in?Man, I’m done talking about this. I just don’t want to keep talking about this. I’ve said my piece, now the rest of you talk about it.
King Dave says
For liberals to say the Islamic State has nothing to do with Islam is the same as saying
Religion plays no part in the believers decision making process in their daily lives.
Jovial Joe says
I’m mystified Robert why he hasn’t invited you onto Real Time; have you been invited or offered your services? He’s in desperate need of a wing-man, you can see the backlash is getting to him; someone with a bit of steel in his spine to rescue him:)
Robert Spencer says
Jovial Joe
This will never happen. He hates “right-wingers,” and doesn’t realize that the stigmatization of opposition to jihad terror as “right-wing” was a product of the same defamation machine that is targeting him now.
Jovial Joe says
If he can’t see beyond his own leftwing prejudice the scholarly understanding you bring to the topic then I guess he deserves to be cannibalised by his kith and kin. The same bemusement at the liberal backlash he’s received has been exhibited by Sam Harris: http://m.samharris.org/blog ; it’s pitiful reading him trying to justify his comments to the lunatic left as if they’d willingly give him a hearing rather than continue their assaults on him from an entrenched position of willful ignorance.
Kepha says
I’m with you, Jovial Joe.
However, I’ll note one thing about Maher. I once watched him debating Bill O’Reilly on what an evil book the Bible was. Maher at least knew the standard texts the scoffers like to throw out (ban on Canaanites; stoning adulterers; women submitting to husbands–horrrors! Every good American knows that it’s a woman’s birthright to be a b$&chy shrew! O’Reilly, by contrast, could do nothing but disparage the Old Testament with a few shallow shibboleths that should never be heard on the lips of someone who claims to be a serious Christian.
Still, I’ll have to say that Maher deserves his own ilk turning on him.
Islam_Macht_Frei says
All due respect Robert, I think you are wrong there. Maher would have you on – do you even know if he is aware of your work or this site?
Robert Spencer says
I doubt he has ever heard of me, but if he has, I am rather certain he thinks of me as one of those people who are REALLY doing what he is being accused of doing now.
Beagle says
Nobody on the Left in modern history has made the No True Christian (Scotsman) fallacious argument to excuse historical or modern wrongdoing. But No True Muslim is used daily in media, government, education, and entertainment. No other religious discussion requires disclaimers and has its own ‘phobia’.
Pontificating on ‘true’ Islam and defending it is half way to conversion.
Of course Muslims win the Peace Prize. They are fighting the wars, often with each other.
PRCS says
Maher and Harris both missed the opportunity to tell Afleck/Kristol/Steele that, like so many others, they are confusing Islam, a written ideology, with the decision of individual Muslims to either comply with its teachings and commands or not.
Jay Boo says
Ben Affleck’s bigoted remarks about over a billion Muslims were a stereotypical Leftist view grounded in a paternalistic liberal supremacy that is quite condescending toward all Muslims in general and were based on assumptions that are quite racist.
Ben Affleck needs to stop his racist behavior.
PRCS says
“Ben Affleck needs to stop his racist behavior.”
Funny.
Max Publius says
Love that New Speak phrase in the interview: ” where does five of the last twelve Nobel Peace Prize winners, all of whom are Muslim….”
That’s logically the same as saying “two of the last million winners, all of whom are Muslim”
This BTW includes Yassir Arafat, LOL. I’d have to confirm if they are including the quisling Obama, nominated 12 days after becoming President.
Maher’s been on the right side of history for a while now – he demolished some idiot lawyer in early in 2013:
vickie says
Anyone know how to contact Maher? Show him our support. Encourage him to talk with Spencer or at least encourage him to read Spencers books!!
Max Publius says
I’m a 100% all the Islamorealist left already does read Spencer and the true hero counter-jihadists. But Maher is a celebrity and they don’t like to give credit.
Max Publius says
Kristol is already CYAing himself big time. He spends his life in the 1960’s fretting about the KKK, but apparently he deigned to actually read some of the statistics after Maher stated them, and now Kristol sees he’s not only on the wrong side of history, he has been an Islamist collaborator for 13 years.
jewdog says
I’m surprised that Maher has made this elementary mistake. It merely reinforces my conviction that most TV is pretty bleak. I only watch Airplane Repo, Mystery Diners, Stakeout, Restaurant Impossible, Hotel Hell and Hotel Impossible. Maybe some day we’ll have Dhimmi Impossible in which a team from JW will set some of these confused sad-sacks straight.
Kepha says
Hmmm, Jewdog, looks as if you and Uncle Kepha share a few things besides dislike of Islam. But I’ll up the ante: modern news reporting is probably a major factor in making American more and more stupid.
Sam says
Isn’t it sufficient to have a “glancing” knowledge to figure out that Islam is not a “religion of peace” but a bunch of bull crap? I am done with studying Islam myself. I want to spend the rest of my life learning about millions of other pleasant subjects but Islam. What a menace this cult of Islam is and has been to humanity.
Beagle says
I want to quit studying Islam. But as Trotsky wrote about war: “You may not be interested in Islam (war), but Islam (war) is interested in you.”
Issue enough death threats on a class of people to which I belong and I will study the beliefs of those who do the threatening. I used to study Communism.
Vinodgupt says
The problem with our so called liberals — I use the word so-called liberal because they are not liberal in the real sense — friends is that they think Islam is what they it should be and not what it really is . Islam is not an imaginary thing. It has well defined and developed structure which has been refined and defined over the last fourteen centuries. The only problem is that these pseudo-liberals never bother to study it and those who do and express it are labeled Islamo -phobes instead of being called Islamo-scient.
Vinodgupt says
It is generally proclaimed from roof tops that Islam is a.religion of peace and tolerance but it is the Islamic extremists who are the problem meaning violent. If indeed Islam was peaceful and tolerant then wouldn’t the Islamic extremists be extremely peaceful and tolerant?
Anon says
“Religion” of “peace” – Nobel “peace” “prize” – etc. – just how “peaceful” is Islam — http://www.thereligionofpeace.com
Anon says
Another good recent article:
“Not Destroying ISIS”
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/nonie-darwish/not-destroying-isis-2/
“Why is it that many Muslim governments allow the financial support and accommodation of terror groups as long as terrorists do their business elsewhere?”
“Will Muslim armies fight the alleged bad Muslims?”
profitsbeard says
The thing all of these “opposing” talking heads have in common is emptiness.
They have yet to read the Koran and Hadiths.
Without that, their comments are wind rushing from nowhere to nowhere.
The damned Koran is shorter than the New Testament.
Read it, Bill.
And learn what a document of plagiarized and distorted Hebrew and Gnostic texts and seething revenge fantasies by a flea-bitten Mussolini it all is.
Know Thy Enemy says
Actually, the Quran is shorter than most people think. Most of the suras (chapters) have the following format-
– A couple of ayats (verses) calling Allah merciful, all-knowing, etc etc.
– A few verses telling people to look at the trees, the animals, the stars, the land, the hills and pointing out how stupid they are for not seeing that this landscape and clouds are all ‘signs’ from Allah!
– A couple of verses reminding people of the bad things that happened to those who didn’t believe Allah in the past.
– Verses threatening people of doom and eternal hellfire if they don’t believe in Allah……
– ….and his prophet 😉
– Verses offering carrots, jannat, and other goodies to those who do believe in Allah and of course in the “*warner* of the approaching Hour”.
– And “So prostrate yourself before Allah and worship.” (Q 53:62) THE END.
That is 70% of the Quran right there!
jcollins says
lol 🙂
mike18xx says
“Gone Girl” was a “blockbuster”?
— So it’s, like, up there with “Raiders”, huh?
JIMJFOX says
Bible-v-Koran:
“Is it happening NOW?”
Bible- NO!!
Koran- YES!!
That fact aside, the fallacy of Moral Equivalence seems to get overlooked…
Lets stand together says
Here is the ‘RED LINE’ in my mind.
Does an individual believe in, follow, want to implement in their adopted country ……. SHARIA LAW ….. if that is what they want then I would say that they are BAD for civilized western society and should be stopped.
If the want to practice sharia that means to me no tolerance for others, hate for human rights, abuse of women and gays, attempt to eradicate othe real religions not cults as they are, believe in death to those who leave islam …. the list just goes on and on.
If you believe in sharia there is no place for you in the civilized world — go back to the desert.
Bob C. says
If you believe in following or implementing sharia law, then there is no place for you in the civilized world.
Bob C. says
islam = sharia law
Bob C. says
islam = sharia law =
No tolerance for other groups, abuse of women, death to gays, extermination of other ‘real religions’, no tolerance for anyone different.
Liberal progressives they are coming for you. There is no live and let live with these people.
Understand this cult is not a religion of peace. Their ‘prophet’ was a cold blooded murderer and thief as well as a rapist of boys and girls.
How can their be peace if this is who you follow.
voegelinian says
Thanks Fiqh; it’s nice to know that there is a pitiful handful of Jihad Watchers who even are able to notice this problem, much less take the time and trouble to point it out. As I have noticed years ago, the further phase of graduation on the LCPOI (the Learning Curve of the Problem of Islam) is to graduate beyond all this chest-thumping self-congratulatory I’m-so-wise-and-I’m-such-a-no-nonsense-observer-of-the-problem-because-I-see-how-bad-Islam-is posture and move on to being robustly anti-Muslim. I recall when the refreshingly brash Andrew Breitbart died Robert Spencer took the time to write an appreciative article in his honor & memory, in which he demonstrated the good sense to notice that one of the chief qualities of Breitbart was precisely his “take no hostages” attitude in the face of the PC MCs and his refusal to tiptoe on obsequious eggshells around them — which makes all the more ironic how Spencer in this specific context does exactly that, suddenly shrinking back from his bravery to be oh so careful about Muslims. It’s long past time for us to be worrying about the precious sensibilities of Muslims or of the PC MCs who dictate what we should be worrying about when this problem of Islam comes up.
Islam is only a concrete problem for the world when Muslims put it into practice. Why is that such a difficult concept for so many in the Counter-Jihad?
voegelinian says
And, of course, when I say “when Muslims put it into practice” we then have to factor in whether the reader has himself gone through the LCPOI (the Learning Curve of the Problem of Islam) with sufficient diligence & intelligence to fully appreciate the full horror of the systemic & the metastasizing nature of that seemingly casual phrase “when Muslims put it into practice” — for, if he has, he reaches the threshold of a dilemma where he has only two options at that point: either to recoil and shrink back into a defensive posture defending innumerable Muslims (i.e., like a billion fucking Muslims for fuck sake) from our searingly appropriate condemnation, or to boldly go where no Jihad Watcher has gone before. And no, I don’t mean “going there” down that slippery slope to genocide — that’s where the shrinking violet PC MCs irrationally fear we are compelled to go if we follow our ruthlessly intelligent nose having the “mental pencil” (as Hugh Fitzgerald put it) to connect the dots; but that’s not where we rational Jihad Watchers know it has to lead us. The only problem is, where are the rational Jihad Watchers in this regard…? There are a few. Fiqh, Tradewinds, Infidel Pride…; one can count them all perhaps on the left hand of a Muslim thief.
Jovial Joe says
The point is Voegi the only legitimate methodology for assessing any matter of fact, whether we’re talking earth worms or muslims, is one that is evidence based and logically coherent. There is plenty of evidence that Islam is doctrinally obscene and inhumane because it is written in black and white; what evidence do you have that everyone who self-identifies as muslim is a child-raping, murderous, necrophilliac? I’ll save you the bother, you have no evidence for that assertion nor evidence that every muslim can be characterised that way in potentia. You are therefore entirely driven by prejudice which makes you all of a piece with those muslims who cast similar aspertions on all infidels. It’s a really ugly trait you have and certainly doesn’t make you ‘brave’ in confronting the MC PC paradigm, merely arrogant and pompous.
icefalcon says
Re: Muslim Nobel Prize winners–the young lady who is the current prize recipient was named a candidate for the Nobel BECAUSE she was the victim of Muslim violence. Arafat received the Nobel BECAUSE of the problem of Muslim violence.
Aren’t there more Muslims willing to shoot schoolgirls, or bomb Israeli buses, than there are Nobel laureates?
Allan Mandrowski says
I think the best thing many right wing people can do I support someone like Bill Maher. You might not share 90% if his views on other matters, but you do share his view (at least to a large extent) on Islam. That alone should pave the way for cooperation.
As I stated in my introductionary post in another topic. I generally hold left wing views on a plethora of topics, but on the topic of Islam I am with you.
As one can imagine it is incredibly difficult to debate this topic in an honest and free spirit amongst fellow “liberals”. I say “Liberals” because many of them aren’t liberal in the classical sense of the word and definition. They are salon-liberals, anarchists, cynics, whatever.
I see Maher’s shortcomings in knowledge about Islam and it saddens me to see him pushed into a corner. This is why I wish he would have someone like Spencer on his show.
I think without even trying to make this happen we will miss a huge opportunity in presenting the point about Islam to a wider audience. Robert has the factual knowledge, is eloquent and has class whenever I have seen a video of him debating utter nutjobs.
ROBERT KENNY says
Now I’m the opposite of Allan – I support Maher on 90% of his beliefs but part company with him on this issue.
Timothy Kaldas makes some good points on rebutting Maher’s statistics – http://www.huffingtonpost.com/timothy-e-kaldas/lies-damned-lies-and-bill-mahers-statistics_b_5956278.html
Mainly that Christians in those Muslim countries believe most of the same repressive things that the Muslims do suggesting it is the politics and culture of those countries rather than the faith that forms those opinions.
Anyway he’s fudging the statistics a bit. The Pew study says OF THOSE EGYPTIAN MUSLIMS WHO THINK SHARIA SHOULD BE THE LAW OF THE LAND, (74%), 86% of them think converts from Islam should be punished by death. That’s 86% of 74% or 64% not 90 as Bill Maher claimed.
Also in a subsequent broadcast Maher’s defense to the bigotry charge was that a Muslim friend of his says that he is not a bigot. Really Bill? If George Wallace had a black friend who said he wasn’t bigoted would that make it so?