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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Reza Aslan: Islam and all other religions can be “molded and shaped into whatever form a worshiper requires”

Oct 10, 2014 10:58 am By Robert Spencer

AslanLemonIn yet another effort to exonerate Islam for the crimes done in accord with its commands and teachings, Islamic supremacist Reza Aslan (or whoever writes material for this none-too-bright adolescent) immediately contradicts himself: Bill Maher, according to the headline, “misunderstands religion,” but then Reza tells us in the article that religions are infinitely malleable, capable of being “molded and shaped into whatever form a worshiper requires.” But if that were true, then it would be impossible to misunderstand them, because anything at all that one said about them would be as equally valid as any other view. Thus it would be impossible for Bill Maher, or anyone else, to misunderstand religion or Islam in particular.

What Aslan or his ghostwriter is claiming here is absolutely nihilistic. He’s saying essentially that words have no meaning, that the various scriptures of various religions have no essential content or character, that the religions themselves are meaningless and interchangeable, and that people are never inspired to change their behavior by the teachings of a religion, which don’t exist anyway, since religions are wholly and solely what people decide they will be. Can a religion’s teachings transform a believer into a “violent misogynist” or a “peaceful, democratic feminist”? For Aslan, the answer is no: religions are just putty, to be formed by those who believe in them into any shape they like. So tomorrow Muslims could begin to declare that there are five gods, despite the Qur’an’s fierce monotheism, and Christians could begin murdering people while screaming, “Jesus is Lord!”

This is, of course, completely absurd. Religions don’t just depend on what the believer brings to them; believers are also shaped by what they teach. Religious teachings do have real content and neither can be nor are shaped by believers into whatever they like.

Note also the sleight of hand in his paragraph that attempts to establish that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all equally capable of inciting believers to violence. Aslan (or his ghost) doesn’t mention that I Samuel 15:3 is not an open-ended command to all believers, as is Qur’an 9:5; rather, it is a specific directive given to Saul regarding the Amalekites. If you are neither Saul nor an Amalekite, it doesn’t concern you. And as for Luke 22:36, Aslan doesn’t mention that shortly thereafter, when one of the disciples uses his sword and cuts off the ear of a slave of the high priest, Jesus rebukes the sword-bearer and heals the man’s ear (Luke 22:51).

And while examples are ready to hand of Muslims quoting Qur’an 9:5 to justify violence (including Osama bin Laden), Aslan can adduce not a single example of a Jew committing an act of violence and justifying it by referring to I Samuel 15:3, or a Christian committing an act of violence and justifying it by referring to Luke 22:36.

Also, while admonishing his readers that “no religion exists in a vacuum,” Aslan completely ignores the interpretative traditions of all three religions, and treats their scriptures as if they do indeed exist in a vacuum. They don’t. And neither Judaism nor Christianity, in any of their forms, have now or have ever had any doctrines equivalent to the Islamic doctrine that the Muslim community “makes war upon Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians …until they become Muslim or else pay the non-Muslim poll tax” (‘Umdat al-Salik O9.8). The quotation comes from a manual of Islamic law certified by the most prestigious and influential institution in Sunni Islam, al-Azhar, as conforming “to the practice and faith of the orthodox Sunni community.”

I challenge Reza Aslan to provide a quotation from any Jewish or Christian authority comparable to al-Azhar, calling upon believers to make war against and subjugate non-believers. He will, of course, ignore this challenge, or, if he does take note of it, he will respond as he has in the past, by calling me fat or gay or stupid, or all of the above, and ignoring the challenge. Aslan’s frenzied rudeness and obnoxiousness to those who dare to disagree with him is well documented. It also manifests, as it does in the case of Mia Bloom, a deep insecurity almost certainly born of the strain of having to spend one’s days putting forward and propping up fantasies and falsehoods.

“Bill Maher Isn’t the Only One Who Misunderstands Religion,” by Reza Aslan, New York Times, October 8, 2014:

…No religion exists in a vacuum. On the contrary, every faith is rooted in the soil in which it is planted. It is a fallacy to believe that people of faith derive their values primarily from their Scriptures. The opposite is true. People of faith insert their values into their Scriptures, reading them through the lens of their own cultural, ethnic, nationalistic and even political perspectives.

After all, scripture is meaningless without interpretation. Scripture requires a person to confront and interpret it in order for it to have any meaning. And the very act of interpreting a scripture necessarily involves bringing to it one’s own perspectives and prejudices.

The abiding nature of scripture rests not so much in its truth claims as it does in its malleability, its ability to be molded and shaped into whatever form a worshiper requires. The same Bible that commands Jews to “love your neighbor as yourself” (Leviticus 19:18) also exhorts them to “kill every man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey,” who worship any other God (1 Sam. 15:3). The same Jesus Christ who told his disciples to “turn the other cheek” (Matthew 5:39) also told them that he had “not come to bring peace but the sword” (Matthew 10:34), and that “he who does not have a sword should sell his cloak and buy one” (Luke 22:36). The same Quran that warns believers “if you kill one person it is as though you have killed all of humanity” (5:32) also commands them to “slay the idolaters wherever you find them” (9:5).

How a worshiper treats these conflicting commandments depends on the believer. If you are a violent misogynist, you will find plenty in your scriptures to justify your beliefs. If you are a peaceful, democratic feminist, you will also find justification in the scriptures for your point of view….

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Filed Under: journalistic bias, moral equivalence, War is deceit, willful ignorance Tagged With: featured


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Comments

  1. John C. Barile says

    Oct 10, 2014 at 11:15 am

    I tried creating a new religion myself, but it was just too damn formless. I was trying to fashion a religion that would instantly propel me into the spotlight, and get me featured in major media like the CNN and the NY Times.

    • Henry says

      Oct 11, 2014 at 3:30 pm

      Here’s a tip: Promise the earth, demonize the ‘other’, keep them sweet – play to lower instincts, throw in all kinds of booty, and be sure to tell followers that they’re better than everyone else, et voila, you’re a prophet with your own religion with cut throat following! Don’t forget to lead from behind when there’s a battle, and descend into savagery and debauchery whenever it suits you – if anyone questions this tell them you had a revelation, and if they still persist in giving you a headache relieve them of their head. Simple!

  2. jihad3tracker says

    Oct 10, 2014 at 11:16 am

    HELLO AGAIN REZA ! ! ! ( Or, as the superb Robert Spencer calls you, a “none-too-bright-adolescent”.)

    Don’t deny that you are obsessed with the postings here of a TRUE EXPERT ON ISLAM and someone who is actually respected.

    In case newish readers here are not familiar with your main identity as a clown and ‘fraidy-cat, I urge them to look up things you have done regarding Mr. Spencer, by an archival keyword search here.

    Especially hilarious in a pathetic way was that homoerotic bit of embarrassment — calling him a “bear”. If you come out of the closet, then, hey, maybe you would not be so miserable. Give it a try !

    Better not travel to Iran subsequently, however : the Supreme Leader likely has a noose with your name on it.

  3. Champ says

    Oct 10, 2014 at 11:40 am

    Reza tells us in the article that religions are infinitely malleable, capable of being “molded and shaped into whatever form a worshiper requires.”

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Reza must think that he’s so *clever* with his pretzel logic, but he’s really just a bald-faced liar.

    • rev g says

      Oct 10, 2014 at 11:56 am

      He is trying to make excuses. It is a tacit admission that islam is inherently evil and violent, along with a false hope that islam can be changed.

      • Champ says

        Oct 10, 2014 at 1:03 pm

        Yes: islam is wholly evil, but evil cannot be reformed. What a complete waste of time.

  4. Diane Harvey says

    Oct 10, 2014 at 11:44 am

    I think I see where Asslan is going with all of this. He bought the rights to The Flip Wilson Show from Wilson’s estate, and is trying to become head honcho/iman to Flip’s Church of What’s Happening Now.

    Standing for nothing except the flim-flam.

    • jihad3tracker says

      Oct 10, 2014 at 12:52 pm

      Gracias for my Friday laugh, Diane.

      I will pass it along to my pals during our evening confabulation, when we draw the strength to go on by swallowing copious IPAs & watching vids of the wonderful Jacques Pepin doing fast food his way.

      BTW, Reza is almost as pretty as Flip Wilson’s “Geraldine” — but with a wig and full makeup, he’d definitely top that classic character. But superior legs ? I have no idea and don’t plan on finding the answer . . . .

  5. Don McKellar says

    Oct 10, 2014 at 12:00 pm

    Reza Asslan: Ignore the text that’s in front of you! Ignore the man behind the curtain! Don’t look because you know better, you smart leftist! wink wink nudge nudge

    As the Islamic propoganda con game’s whole leftist house of cards starts to tumble, Reza Asslan will be eventually vanish from the scene. He is one pathetic closet gay moslem, that’s for sure. Maher and Harris are just the first to start pulling out the cards, there will be more and then the whole house will collapse under the weight of its own excrement.

  6. Oliver says

    Oct 10, 2014 at 12:08 pm

    What else would one expect from a liberal, Muslim apologetic rag like The New York Times.

    Even their OP-ED is biased-agree or we will not publish.

    When John McCain was about o get the Republican nomination, The New York Times, on PAGE 1 NO LESS, printed a discredited, bald face lie, from ABOUT EIGHT OR TEN YEARS BEFORE, ABOUT AN ALLEGED AFFAIR THAT HE HAD, The fact that this was discredited years before had no bearing, on their putting it on page 1.

    When Romney ran, (I forgot exactly if it was Romney or one of his supporters or staffers) wrote an Op-Ed, critical of an “article” ( that had errors) and the paper refused to print it.

    So, why printing this gibberish is worthy of a comment?

    By the way, the one thing that he (kind of said) -that makes a bit of sense-is religion could be made to be what one wants it to be. By that, IF HE MEANS (which I doubt) THE MAIL ORDER MINISTRIES (or, now would it be email order ministries?) , where for some “donation” (back in the 1960’s and 70’s it was $25-50), one could become a “minister” and start his/her own church, with his/her own doctrine.

    Of course, this had and has little (or nothing0 to do with the major (or even larger minor) religions.

    But other then that, the article makes little sense. In my view.

  7. Buraq says

    Oct 10, 2014 at 12:24 pm

    So, when Muhammed replied “Kill him” when asked what to do with apostates, this can be molded into any kind of understanding you want, right?

    Reza’s a clown!

  8. Salah says

    Oct 10, 2014 at 12:29 pm

    ‘Islam and all other religions can be “molded and shaped into whatever form a worshiper requires”’

    True, but…
    Tanzania: a predominantly Christian country, with a large Muslim minority.
    Read the following article, then try to find out who did it: Jafari Mohammed!

    Breaking News: Seven ‘witches’ burned alive in Tanzania.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-29572974

  9. Jaladhi says

    Oct 10, 2014 at 12:34 pm

    Oh I see now, Muslims have molded Islam to be a religion of terror and it was the done by the original terrorist Mo/allah!! Moron!!

  10. awake says

    Oct 10, 2014 at 12:46 pm

    So, is Reza making the assertion that the problem is not Islam per se, but rather an untold number of Muslims, imams included, who seemingly “interpret” Islam in the exact same way?

  11. duh_swami says

    Oct 10, 2014 at 3:15 pm

    ‘Islam and all other religions can be “molded and shaped into whatever form a worshiper requires

    I bet Reza wouldn’t say that to Allah.

  12. TH says

    Oct 10, 2014 at 6:29 pm

    He is totally lacking any intellectual honesty. He obviously know nothing about Biblical interpretation or exegesis. There are criteria for Biblical interpretation and for Chrristians the main one is that the Person ,life death and ressurrection of Jesus Christ are the central criterion for understaning the Bible. There is also an historical progression so that primitive elements of the Hebrew Scriptures are later superseded , as is the case of polygamy. There is the understanding that God took a primitive people and educated them little by little, and for us Christians the culmination of this process is, as mentioned, Jesus as Son of God made man. Besides, the Church precedes the Bible, that is the New Testament and it decided what books were to enter the Canon of both testaments. It discared the dietary law, ritual laws (those found in the Book of Leviticus for instance), the sabbath and Jesus went beyond even the decalogue, abeit maintaing it by proclaiming the beatitudes, the forgiveness of enemies, turning the other cheek, rejecting divorce in all cases etc.

    Why does this gentleman get involved in biblical interpretation when he is obviously totally ignorant of it. One who is not a medical doctor or an expert in quantic physics don’t prontificate about those sciences.

  13. pdxnag says

    Oct 10, 2014 at 6:48 pm

    All of man’s gods are man made. (Are you sure he is not an atheist? He’ll say most anything, like a politician, to get a buck from his masters.)

    The gods we create reflect the vision of their human creator(s). A tyrant cannot be expected to design a god that does not support his tyranny. Mohammad’s will has long outlived the rule against perpetuities.

    Reza Aslan,

    If you could start with a clean slate (which you can with each sunrise) what features and beliefs would you personally impart to your very own imaginary deity? Then, if someone else reshapes your god and beliefs is it still your god and beliefs?

  14. gravenimage says

    Oct 10, 2014 at 7:23 pm

    Reza Aslan: Islam and all other religions can be “molded and shaped into whatever form a worshiper requires”
    …………………………………………

    And yet, Jewish and Christian-influenced nations tend to have large numbers of charitable bodies and social safety nets, while the Aztec Empire was notable for its human sacrifices—just as one might expect from their scriptures.

    And Muslim nations are violent, chaotic hell holes that oppress women, children, and unbelievers—just as one might expect from *their* scriptures.

    The fact is that after allowing for the usual and expected lapses, laxities, and hypocrisies one finds in the followers of *any* faith—and the fact that some societies are more religious than others—the results are actually quite predictable within certain parameters.

    More:

    …No religion exists in a vacuum. On the contrary, every faith is rooted in the soil in which it is planted. It is a fallacy to believe that people of faith derive their values primarily from their Scriptures. The opposite is true. People of faith insert their values into their Scriptures, reading them through the lens of their own cultural, ethnic, nationalistic and even political perspectives.
    …………………………………………

    This is true—but only to a point, and not a very deep one. Certainly, the outward appearances of, say, a stately Church of England mass might be quite different from an Anglican mass in Africa—or a Southern Baptist Sunday church meeting with a gospel choir and lively parishioner call-and-response in an African American community. A Korean Presbyterian worships rather differently from an Argentine Catholic.

    But apart from a few doctrinal differences, most of these variations in worship are more a matter of style than content.

    And what about the Muslim world?

    The fact is that Islam manifests in *almost identical* forms wherever it is taken seriously.

    And this is the case—and Reza Aslan with *never* mention this—in Shi’ite Iran, which sanguinary tyranny Reza Aslan shills for.

    Iran carries out stonings—as do such far-flung and superficially culturally different places as Nigeria, rural Pakistan, and Somalia. It is now on the books in Aceh in Indonesia, and back on the books in Afghanistan, where it has never disappeared in outlying areas.

    The fact is that flogging, persecution of “blasphemy” and apostasy, child marriages, sex slavery, FGM, amputations for petty theft, stoning, crucifixion, and beheadings turn up over and over again wherever pious Muslims gain power. Not surprisingly, the Islamic State practices all of these atrocities.

    More:

    The same Quran that warns believers “if you kill one person it is as though you have killed all of humanity” (5:32) also commands them to “slay the idolaters wherever you find them” (9:5).
    …………………………………………

    Several things that Reza Aslan will not tell you here—firstly, that Qur’an 5:32 was a Muslim admonishment *to Jews* for (supposedly) not living up to the tenets of their own scriptures—this was never intended to apply to Muslims.

    And more: that many of the verses of the Qur’an are abrogated—or superseded—by later ones. And that the violent and bloody Qur’an 9:5 is the penultimate verse of the Qur’an—virtually the “last word” to the vicious “believers”.

    And we see the influence of this fact every day in the behavior of those who take Islamic ‘scripture’ to heart, in the widespread instance of Jihad terror.

    • Bezelel says

      Oct 10, 2014 at 9:15 pm

      Judge a tree by it’s fruit.

  15. Kepha says

    Oct 10, 2014 at 7:32 pm

    Sure, you can make the New Testament a handbok for ethnic cleansing and gross self-indulgence–provided you’re dishonest and unscrupulous enough.

    • Bezelel says

      Oct 11, 2014 at 5:30 am

      Kepha, Honestly malpractice can happen in any religion, when it happens in islame they are called moderates.

  16. Barry K says

    Oct 10, 2014 at 10:41 pm

    I don’t insist a muslim who choose to interprete Islam in a less violent form as non Islamic, just as I don’t count Jews who no longer abide by strict Old Testament Mosiac laws as heathens. Punishment somewhat similar to strict Sharia laws and the dogmatically strict ways of the Pharisees are of days gone by. Are the Jews that go to the synagogues today then heathens in not strictly abiding by the laws of the Torah? Christians doctrines in Christ fulfilling the laws may somewhat have some influence in today’s Judaism but it is not the same as in Torah but I cannot think they are not of Judaism.

    Similarly Christians interprete the the Bible differently, each accusing the other as heretodox, extrabiblical, unbiblical or heretical. We have Calvinist and Aminians, middle evangelicals, reformers, charismatics differing in ideas of who is saved and who is not ; who is a christian and who is not , etc.

    Why is it theologically not alright for some Muslims to have a dispensation approach to the interpretation and application of their Koranic verses like Christian theologians can . Is it the monopoly of Christian theologians only, that they can interprete that God chose to carry out His plans differently during different dispensations or periods of time and ‘reformed’ Muslims cannot think likewise. Don’t many’christians’ interpretations come from ideas outside of scriptures. Do we ally with the militant orthodox Muslims to slam them and not give them a chance to reform Koranic interpretations. Of course they only represent a super tiny voiceless minority but it is a start and it does not help to throw stones at them. The cruel acts of the militants have led many Muslims themselves to examine and question the cruel , militant and intolerant teachings of historic Islam and want a reformed theology relevant to the new dispensation. Islam is not going away any time soon and the long term solution and good for everyone is not to hinder any growth of ‘reformed’ Islam, regardless whether you consider that as a true Islam or not.

    • Know Thy Enemy says

      Oct 11, 2014 at 6:55 pm

      Barry K says “Don’t many’christians’ interpretations come from ideas outside of scriptures. Do we ally with the militant orthodox Muslims to slam them and not give them a chance to reform Koranic interpretations. Of course they only represent a super tiny voiceless minority but it is a start and it does not help to throw stones at them. The cruel acts of the militants have led many Muslims themselves to examine and question the cruel , militant and intolerant teachings of historic Islam and want a reformed theology relevant to the new dispensation. Islam is not going away any time soon and the long term solution and good for everyone is not to hinder any growth of ‘reformed’ Islam, regardless whether you consider that as a true Islam or not.”

      You are a fool Barry! You want to give them a chance to ‘reform’? Well…. give them these chances in your own neighborhood, not mine! And I am NOT ok with you giving them this chance if your neighborhood happens to be close to mine!

      Do you realize that it takes time for reform to happen? It could easily take decades for them to positively reform. For all this time you and your loved ones will be exposed to any Muhammadan who decides to become devout in his faith.

      Also, don’t ignore the possibility that their attempt at ‘reform’ can fail, and fail completely. Just because the Jews were successful at reform does not automatically mean that Muslims too will be successful for sure. And if it fails, you will have a problem at your hands that is ten times as serious as it is today. Just ask the Christians in Egypt how easy they think it is to rid their country of Muslims.

      Are you willing to take such risks?… because I am NOT! Whichever Muhammadan wants to try out his/her hands on ‘reform’, please try it out in the Islam majority countries, and leave the western countries ASAP!

      The problem with your kind (assuming you are a non-Muslim), is that not only you don’t understand the Muslim mentality (including liberal Muslims), you think of yourselves as somehow superior (as in ‘saintly’) to Muslims. Let me assure you you are not superior in any way….. your neck can be sliced as easily as that of any journalists, aid-workers, Shias, Yezidis, non-Muslims, or Sunnis, though your women may fetch more money in the sex-slave bazaars.

      • Barry K says

        Oct 11, 2014 at 8:31 pm

        Know thy enemy,
        You must be a greater fool. No where did I say that it will be easy and fast for a ‘reformed’ Islam to take root , if ever at all. As a Christian having grown up in a muslim majority country, I am just as concerned as many on the rise of radical Islam. I have lived among muslims before the 1970s and before the Iranian revolution when the practice of Islam was so much different from the radical ways today. Don’t think for once that I am ignorant about the rise of radical Islam as I see it happening before my eyes. And I am not naive , not to understand beheading by militant Islamist is more that chopping heads- it is like a painful ritual slaughtering of chickens . I am just saying militant Islam is not going away anytime soon and military confrontation against these cruel people will of course be necessary. But in the long term, military action on it’s own will never win. Some tiny numbers of disillusioned Muslims might seek other faith, but a reformed Islam might be the long term solution. It might be difficult but not impossible to have Islam return to what it was before the Iranian revolution. And don’t make it harder by joining the Islamic militants in throwing stones at those who desire to reform their theology. They have as much right to do that as theologians of other faiths.

        If you live in an Islamic country which was once moderate, you would desire to see a return to that and not hinder it. However, if you live in the western world, you live among the real fools who say there is no God and in doves abandoned the Christian faith of their Puritan fathers for secularist and humanist philosophy and lifestyles. They are the worst enemy unto themselves that will destroy Judeo/Christian values in the western world and they don’t need the Jihadists to do that. Like old ancient Israel which was taken into captivity by their foes as God’s judgement for abandoning the faith of their fathers, so could it be , that the rise of radical Islam in the west is the judgement of God also for the same. Repent, it is not too late or remain as the real fools.

      • Kepha says

        Oct 11, 2014 at 8:34 pm

        @Barry K

        Sure, both Torah and Islamic tradition mandate stoning for certain serious crimes. And I’m OK with counting a single bullet to the back of the head of a murderer after due process of law as a small, mostly lead and steel “stone”.

        As for blasphemy, more people were put to death for blasphemy against progress , nation, social justice, and revolutionary catharsis during the 20th century alone than were killed for blasphemy against Christ in the 15 centuries between the conversion of Constantine and Napoleon’s shutting down the Spanish Inquisition.

        But before you find too much similarity between Torah and Islamic jurisprudence, consider this:

        If a man steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox and four sheep for a sheep. (Ex. 22:1).

        This is a far cry from the amputation of a hand that Islam decrees for theft.

        • Barry K says

          Oct 12, 2014 at 2:46 am

          Putting a bullet into one’s head is not the same as death by stoning. There are many instances of violence and punishment mentioned in the Old Testament which you and I will never fully understand this side of eternity, other than theological explanations given. But I am surely glad Jesus taught otherwise which is the true character of God.I am not here to compare the gravity of punishment or violence mentioned in the Jewish scriptures or the Koran. I am merely making a point that Judaism today is not the same as of old and many mosaic laws no longer applies , even though no where in Jewish scripture does it say that the laws have ceased for today’s Judaism. No one ever dispute with the new conservative or reform Jews theologically over this or insist they follow the old laws or else they are not of Judaism. Even the very Orthodox Jews don’t insist on stoning adulterers and false prophets. But that’s alright with me, but why do we use a different theological measure for those Muslims who choose to have their own version of reform views and insist they cannot differ from that of their written scriptures. This has nothing to do with moral equivalence but has everthing to do with equal and fair theological treatment of reformed Jews and ‘reformed Muslims.

          It’s his religion and he is entitled to his ‘reformed’ views but the only thing I disagree with Reza is that he spent almost all his time and effort in trying to convince non Muslims about his version of Islam. Non Muslims will believe when they see it , not because Reza says so. The people that Reza will need to spend a lot of time with are the Muslims themselves who are in dire need of convincing to be swayed into his reform views . He lacks credibility among Muslims worldwide and will need to garner support of like minded clerics to be effective as a organised and credible institution. It is a very difficult and almost impossible task but if you don’t try , you never know. And our best response is not to join the militant mullahs in throwing stones at him.

      • Know Thy Enemy says

        Oct 11, 2014 at 9:28 pm

        @Barry K

        Assuming you really are a Christian, I can see where the root of your misunderstanding lies- You don’t understand how “reform” actually happened in the Christian Europe. Now I am not a Christian, but I read a post here a few months ago that made great sense, and I’ll do my best to explain it to you here (To readers who are more familiar with European/Christian history: Please correct me for any inaccuracies):

        Once upon a time in Europe, before the printing press, the New Testament was only available to the clergy. Now since the corrupt among the clergy knew that commoners didn’t know what was really written in the NT, they took advantage of it for political power. It was in these times that the Crusades too happened.

        Then thanks to the printing press, books became cheaper and common Europeans could afford them too. And guess which book most Christians wanted? The New Testament, of course. People read it and soon enough of them realized that the clergy were NOT living by what the NT taught. They rebelled (against the clergy) and THAT is what started the reform movement. Then more and more declared that they would rather live by the actual teachings of NT, and Christianity became what it is today!

        Exactly the same thing has happened in Islam beginning the 1960-70s. Up until then, most Muslims were too poor and backward to read the Quran. They thought that the Sufis were the ‘good’ Muslims and that those who were terrorizing others were ‘fanatics’ and ‘radicals’. Then thanks to Arab oil and to the fact that books became even cheaper, more and more ordinary Muslims became familiar with what the “book of Allah” really wanted them to do. That WAS the ‘reform’ among Muslims and it still continues.

        Bottomline: Reformation has already been going on in Islam for last 4-5 decades. The reason why there is murder and mayhem in Islamic world/societies today is because more and more Muslims are choosing to live by what Islam really teaches, rather than by Sufism (and other such ideas).

        Comprende??? I hope the misunderstanding is cleared up now.

        • Barry K says

          Oct 11, 2014 at 10:19 pm

          By the same token, the Internet has exposed many Muslims to the gospel of Jesus Christ and other teachings that causes them to reexamine the validity or relevancy of their beliefs in today’s society. The printing press is out of date . It is one reason why there are Internet restrictions on many muslim societies as a way to hold on to their minds. By stoning Muslims who try to ‘reform’ and call them liberals , unKoranic or whatever, we join the radical mullahs to achieve their ends.

    • Know Thy Enemy says

      Oct 11, 2014 at 7:05 pm

      @Barry K “Islam is not going away any time soon …..”

      The only think keeping Islam from “not going away” is the fact that Islamorealists like me are not working hard (and smart) enough to get our societies get rid of this disease. The day we get serious enough, our societies will be cleansed of Islam in less than 5 years!

      • Barry K says

        Oct 12, 2014 at 1:43 am

        Like you rid the west of Christianity and Judeo / Christian values. With people like you, who needs Jihadists.

  17. pumbar says

    Oct 11, 2014 at 12:37 am

    I pointed out this bizarre argument on a post a couple of days ago. It is an “argument” designed to whitewash pretty much any old canard the user may be covering for. Moral relativism at its most shameless. Pretty much work-a-day nonsense for that old queen asslan and his poodle lean.

  18. PJG says

    Oct 11, 2014 at 7:32 am

    I saw him arguing somewhere – a facebook post? – with someone a few days ago, maybe a week. He said “like every religion it depends what you bring to it”, which was simply daft, of course. (If he thinks like that what is the big deal about Islam?)
    He must have gone to bed so impressed with that grand and brilliant idea and decided to run with it…and now he has made into a full-blown (fly-blown) Philosophical Doctrine.
    What a buffoon!

  19. Nicu says

    Oct 11, 2014 at 7:45 am

    Absolutely : all religions and ” written books ” were written by humans – those who were in charge – so nobody knows what was in it from the beginning : neither the Bible nor the Qu’ran : Koran is written by Macho terrorists with no education and zero tolerance : who they always DEMAND from others .

    So you cannot call it a religion anyway — its a dangerous ideology !

  20. Uncle Vladdi says

    Oct 12, 2014 at 1:01 am

    Islam cannot be “molded” or “reformed” in any way, because it claims perfection!

    Muslims cannot add to it, nor “reform” any of it; islam cannot and will not ever change, in any way, because it’s the “perfect” word of allah, and the metaphoric so-called “gates of ijtihad” (interpretation) have been closed for centuries!

    Surah Al-Ma’idah 5.3 informs Muslims that Allah has PERFECTED Islam. Can perfection be improved? Can perfection be reformed?? If genocidal conquest is perfect, how can it be eliminated as a sacrament of Islam???

    Surah Al-An’am 6.115 informs us that “none can change his words”. Surah Al-Kahf 18.27 confirms the immutability of Allah’s words: the Qur’an. Surah Yunus 10.64 confirms the obvious. Surah Ar-Rum 30.30 tells us that Islam cannot be changed. Exactly what part of this is not clear to liberals? Islam is the perfected wart of Allah and cannot be reformed. It is immutable.

    Surah Al-Anfal 8.39 commands Muslims to wage war against pagans until resistance ceases and only Allah is worshiped. Surah At-Taubah 9.29 commands Muslims to wage war against people with scriptural religions until they are subjugated and submit to annual demands for extortion. Both commands are without chronological or geographic limits. They are permanent in duration and global in scope.

    Muslims are admonished in Surah At-Taubah -.38-39, that they will suffer a “painful torment” if they do not join the Jihad. Muslims are promised, in Surah At-Taubah 9.111 and Surah As-Saff 10-12 that he will admit them to his celestial bordello if they join the Jihad.

    Jihad is the Muslim’s get out of Hell free card! If he does not play that card, he meets Allah with a defect: hypocrisy. (Sunan Ibn Majah Vol. 4 #2763)

    The minimum Jihad quota is once each year. If Jihad is not performed in a year when it was possible, all with knowledge of the imperative are sinners, liable to eternal damnation. (Reliance of the Traveller O9.1, Hedaya 2.140-141, The Book of Jihad pg. 18)

    Muslims are commanded, in Surah Al-Anfal 8.57, to treat vanquished foes harshly so as to strike terror into those behind them. They are commanded in 8.60 to maximize the power of their army so as to terrify thereby prospective victims.

    Muslims are promised, in Surah At-Taubah 9.120, that acts of terrorism will be rewarded with extra credit towards an upgrade in the celestial bordello.

    Muslims are warned, in Surah Al-Baqarah 2.85, that they cannot select the parts of the Qur’an they like and reject the rest.

    From:

    http://nocompulsion.com/can-islam-be-reformed/

    * At the heart of the problem is the Quran, Islam’s sacred book, considered as a literal perfect and immutable words of Allah.

    * Islam is a perfect religion:

    Quran.5:3 : Today have I perfected your religious law for you, and have bestowed upon you the full measure of My blessings, and willed that self-surrender unto Me shall be your religion.

    How can fallible limited humans possibly reform or improve the handiwork of the all-knowing, all-wise author of the universe?

    * Freedoms of all forms are anathema to Islam which is squarely-based on total submission to the dictates and will of Allah. Muslims must obey Allah and His Messenger:

    Quran.33:36: And it behoves not a believing man and a believing woman that they should have any choice in their matter when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he surely strays off a manifest straying.

    * Violence is part and parcel of Islam.

    Quran 2: 216: Fighting is ordained for you, even though it be hateful to you; but it may well be that you hate a thing the while it is good for you, and it may well be that you love a thing the while it is bad for you: and God knows, whereas you do not know.

    * Reforming Islam requires discarding Shari’a, but also purging the Quran itself from enormous suras that are not only patently false, but totally repugnant to a civilized humanity. This line of thinking, to sanitize Islam is explicitly forbidden in the Quran.

    Quran 2:85: Do you, then, believe in some parts of the divine writ and deny the truth of other parts? What, then, could be the reward of those among you who do such things but ignominy in the life of this world and, on the Day of Resurrection; they will be consigned to most grievous suffering? For God is not unmindful of what you do.

    http://alisina.org/blog/2010/12/22/the-illusion-of-reforming-islam/

    http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina50116.htm

    Why Can’t Islam be Reformed?

    By Ali Sina

    http://www.islam-watch.org/alisina/Illusion-of-Reforming-Islam.htm

    The Illusion of Reforming Islam

    by Ali Sina

  21. Uncle Vladdi says

    Oct 12, 2014 at 1:06 am

    Islam cannot be reformed:

    Muslims aren’t allowed to pick and choose what they ‘believe’ is in the Qur’an; what’s in the Qur’an is what’s in the Qur’an!

    It’s says it’s the unchanging Word of God, not some recipe for limited behaviours only applying to some 7th Century wars.

    On the surface, there are many similarities between Christianity and Islam. Both believe in a God, both rely on an intermediary between man and God, both faiths are eschatological and have a hell, a heaven and an afterlife, etc. However, in their core they are very different, in fact opposite to one another. Islam is not a continuation of Christianity, as Muhammad and Muhammadans claim, but it is an anti Christian belief in its essence. These faiths are different. One advocates freedom of man and the other his slavery. One brings the message of liberation the other, of submission.

    The discourse of freedom, so essential to Christianity is contrary what Islam stands for. When you see Muslims carry placards that read “democracy is hypocrisy,” and “freedom go to hell,” during their loud demonstrations, they are expressing the true essence of Islam, which is anti freedom, anti democracy, pro slavery and pro subjugation.

    True Muslims should not be free to choose, but they should emulate Muhammad. The Quran 33:36 says:

    “And it behoves not a believing man and a believing woman that they should have any choice in their matter when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he surely
    strays off a manifest straying.”

    It is not up to Muslims to decide what is good for them. This decision is already made for them and all they have to do is to obey, even when they don’t like it.

    Fighting is ordained for you, even though it be hateful to you; but it may well be that you hate a thing the while it is good for you, and it may well be that you love a thing the while it is bad for you: and God knows, whereas you do not know. (Q. 2:216)

    And let’s not forget Sura 4:77: “Those who whined “Hold back your hands (from attacking)” were corrected:
    “War is compulsory for us – the good and bad both come from allah!”

    Islam can be distilled in its name: Submission. Allah knows best. Therefore man must accept His command, given to humanity by his last emissary Muhammad.

    Democracy means the government of people by the people. In Democracy men make the law. You cannot have that in Islam. In Islam the law comes from God. Man must obey even if those laws appear contrary to reason and are oppressive.

    This is the reason why Muslims cannot oppose stoning adulterers or killing the apostates.

    Can believers have an opinion contrary to what the Quran says? We already saw that the Quran 33:36, prohibits the believers to have any choice in their matter when Allah and His Messenger have made their wishes known.

    How can they decide what is good for the religion?

    When the Quran says Fighting is ordained for you, even if you don’t like it, the message is clear. This is God speaking. That is what you have accepted a priori. So how can you dispute with God? Once you accept the Quran as the word of God you cannot pick and choose and discard what you don’t like. This is strictly prohibited.

    Do you, then, believe in some parts of the divine writ and deny the truth of other parts? What, then, could be the reward of those among you who do such things but ignominy in the life of this world and, on the Day of Resurrection, they will be consigned to most grievous suffering? For God is not unmindful of what you do.
    (Q.2:85)

    6:114 “Am I, then, to look unto anyone but God for judgment [as to what is right and wrong], when it is He who has bestowed upon you from on high this divine writ, clearly spelling out the truth?”

    6:116 Wert thou to follow the common run of those on earth, they will lead thee away from the way of Allah. They follow nothing but conjecture: they do nothing but guess.

    2:174 Verily, as for those who suppress aught of the revelation which God has bestowed from on high, and barter it away for a trifling gain – they but fill their bellies with fire. And God will not speak unto them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He cleanse them [of their sins]; and grievous suffering awaits them.

    See also 16:89 39:23,

    (Q.15:90-92) Such as We send down for those who make division, Those who break the Quran into parts. Therefore, by the Lord, We will, of a surety, call them to account, (6:34) there is none that can alter the words of Allah.

    (Q.10:64) There is no changing the Words of Allah that is the Supreme Triumph.

    18:27 And recite that which hath been revealed unto you of the scripture of your Lord. There is none who can change His words, and you will find no refuge beside Him. How can one claim to believe in the Quran and disregard all these warnings?

    The so called reformers of Islam are misguided at best and deceptive at worst. Their efforts should not be welcomed. Whatever their intention, whether genuine or malicious, they are hoodwinking people and as the
    result giving legitimacy to a very evil and dangerous creed.

    Only truth can set us free. By sugarcoating Islam you cannot change its nature. You can purify any water. You can even convert your urine into drinking water. But can you purify gasoline enough to make it drinkable? The essence of Islam is evil. You cannot reform it enough to make it a humane faith. Can you reform Nazism? This whole notion is misguided and absurd.

  22. Barry K says

    Oct 12, 2014 at 3:17 am

    By your reasoning, Judaism today is not Judaism because it has veered and does not practise the literal teachings and laws of the Jewish scriptures. No where in Jewish scriptures does it say that the laws have ceased or that modern Jews are freed from them or they can pick and choose whatever part of scriptures they are comfortable with to apply to their modern living. My point is that scriptures itself cannot stop one to have a reform dispensational view. Reza can have reform views, but only thing is , can he command a big following among muslims( not among non muslims like the actor Ben) to make a difference. Stop saying that scriptures don’t allow it, whether it is the Torah or the Koran.

  23. abd says

    Nov 23, 2014 at 2:55 pm

    come on stop purposefully misconstruing his words and taking his meanings out of context…

    you know he is probably one of a handful of reasonable and qualified commentators on the matters and subjects he touches upon…

    time to stop vilifying and hating and start respecting and appreciating.

    It seems worryingly alarming that you sound like the type that regardless just wants the fire to be stoked and stoked and stoked..

    shame!!!!

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