[Originally published by Gatestone Institute via RaymondIbrahim.com]
“I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things”—Philippians 3:8
When St. Paul wrote the above in his letter to the Christians of Philippi, he and the early church were being persecuted (Paul was eventually executed in Rome). While today’s Western Christians still quote his words in the context of their daily struggles, an increasing number of Christians around the world, especially the Muslim world, are still literally losing absolutely everything for their faith.
In Christian-majority Uganda, matters have gone from bad to worse to murderous. The plight of Hassan Muwanguzi, for instance, a Muslim convert to Christianity—whose initial sacrifices are recorded in Crucified Again: Exposing Islam’s New War on Christians (page 131)—far from abating, has only gotten worse.
After earning a university degree in Islamic law and then, in 2003, when he was in his early 20s, converting to Christianity, his family immediately threw him out of their home. “Enraged Muslims” beat him. Later that same year, his wife left him and he lost his job as a teacher at Nankodo Islamic School, near Pallisa.
This was just the beginning. Picking up the pieces of his life and moving on, he eventually opened a Christian school, Grace International Nursery and Primary School, near Muslim-majority Mbale. Accordingly, “The Muslims have tried to use all kinds of threats to make me close the school—first they used witchcraft,” said Hassan. “This did not work, so then they tried to discourage Muslims from bringing their children to the school, saying that the school was converting Muslim children to Christianity by teaching Christian Religious Education.”
When all else failed, in 2011 an Islamic teacher, Sheikh Hassan Abdalla, filed a false charge claiming that Hassan had “defiled” the sheikh’s young daughter. Together with his fellow Muslim countrymen, the Islamic cleric filed a case at the chief magistrate’s court. Hassan was subsequently arrested and incarcerated for three weeks.
But because Sheikh Abdalla, his accuser, repeatedly failed to appear in court to testify, Hassan was released. In his words: “The judge found out it was a false accusation, hence the case was dropped. I had been subjected to humiliation, but I forgave them for the sake of my Christian outreach in the area.”
The next Islamic attack came a few months after Hassan was acquitted. First, the owner of the land where Hassan had built his Christian school denied ever having sold it, leading to a court order to close down the school in May, 2012. This incurred great losses on Hassan. The month after, in June, the Christian convert’s home was burnt down by three Muslims… Keep reading
Darren says
I’m wondering if anyone has any links to jihadist web sites. I want to f*ck with them and p*ss them off for fun. I want to go on an an Islamic State site and talk bad about their pedophile prophet and watch them get all riled up it would amuse me greatly. Or if anyone has any links to a place where stealth jihadists hang out that would work too.
Salah says
I tried it. You’ll get banned in a jiffy!
Huck Folder says
Try OnIslam.net – supremacist pricks and dirty tricks. You need lots of aliases, and I don’t know if you can use Tor or any other way of masking your URL. Otherwise the islamist cowards just block negative comments, because they have no possibility of reasoned argument or refutation.
Then there are HuffPo (general sinislam), Loonwatch and rabble.ca (mostly extreme leftard/unionist/antisemite). Any islamophobiaphobic site which has a ‘contacts’ or ‘links’ heading will set you up for more.
Obviously you don’t go there like a bull in a china shop (‘a pig in a mosque’ sounds more apposite!) or they won’t post anything from you.
“A controversial writer named Kevin Alfred Strom said: “If you want to identify the real rulers of any society, simply ask yourself this question: Who is it that I cannot criticize?” Maybe Strom was paraphrasing Voltaire, but I doubt it.”
Stanford Locke says
Start here: http://ebooks.worldofislam.info/ebooks/Jihad/Anwar_Al_Awlaki_-_44_Ways_To_Support_Jihad.pdf
Google Jihad after you read the above “book”
lots of satanic stuff out there…be sure you have good virus/malware software on your computer.
scott allen says
Try loonwatch.Com. it’s mulims that think it’s funny that the world is scared of islam….they blame everything on the media rather than deal with the truth of their death cult.
Huck Folder says
sa: They are funny. They proudly published an FBI report, in an article that showed that 94% of ‘terrorist’ attacks (including releasing farm mink as ‘terrorism’) WERE NOT BY MOSLEMS – I still wouldn’t be PROUD of SIX percent terrorism from TWO percent of the population, especially when they call themselves the ‘religion’ (CULT) of ‘peace’.
When it was pointed out that the very same report, clearly showed that 94 percent of deaths and injuries WERE caused by MOSLEMS, they went very quiet.
Still, that’s one more useful reference. One day you might meet an islamist idgit who quotes the first statement from that report, then you can torpedo him with the second.
gravenimage says
Scott, Loonwatch is mostly “politically correct” far-leftist dhimmi tools shilling for Islam, rather than Muslims themselves. And yes, they screen comments, so I doubt anyone will be able to counter their ludicrous apologia.
Jay Boo says
Muslims INSIST that their own deceased be buried with Islamic ritual.
Yet they treat Christians with such contemptuous disrespect in life and in death.
Jay Boo says
Aya Mahana Jesu
Bro. Nick Nicholas says
@ Jay Boo – off subject – It is very interesting to me personally that you posted ‘Aya Mahana Jesu’. I watched/listened to the very beautiful music YouTube video [OFFICIAL] AYA MAHANA JESU – ANASTASIA KARANJA – then did some searching to find out what language and country it is from.
My closest CHRISTian Brother is from and lives in SW Kenya, although I don’t know if he speaks Kikuyu, for he speaks to me in my only language English when he calls me on the phone to talk.
Thanks for posting it – Bro. Nick
Jay Boo says
You are welcome
Notice that:
While Muslims promote “misery loves company” thinking and a mandatory (display) of worship of Allah, Christians have a free choice.
Joy and love of Jesus is not dictated and the music is from the heart.
Bro. Nick Nicholas says
@ Jay Boo – About the free choice which is found only in our Lord “Jesus Christ” – AMEN!
somehistory says
Christians may lose everything…including life itself. But they have been promised that “nothing can separate them from the love of God and Christ (Romans 8:38-39)” and Jesus said He would be with them always (Matthew 28:20).
But even so, it is heartbreaking to read of what they must endure until the end (Matthew 24:13).
Bro. Nick Nicholas says
@ somehistory – As it is written in “the word of the LORD”, “the Lord Jesus Christ” has very strong personal warnings for those who Persecute His saints – especially the children:
“Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.”
(Luke 17:1-2 [KJV])
As you said about ‘Biblical CHRISTians’ – we are to:
“Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.
Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.
Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and WEEP WITH THEM THAT WEEP.
Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.”
(Rom 12:12-16 [KJV])
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Salah says
” Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.”
As a Catholic myself, I firmly believe that I have the right, and also the duty, to physically defend myself, my family as well as any innocent person from the likes of ISIS.
Of course I’ll do it while…blessing them!
Jesus is neither a hippie nor a pacifist.
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.ca/2013/07/ann-barnhardt-jesus-guns.html
Jacksonl03 says
“After earning a university degree in Islamic law and then, in 2003, when he was in his early 20s, converting to Christianity, his family immediately threw him out of their home. ‘Enraged Muslims’ beat him. Later that same year, his wife left him and he lost his job as a teacher at Nankodo Islamic School, near Pallisa.”
Okay. I’m a bit confused. I’m aware of several stories along these lines.
Here’s a guy who evidently was well educated in Islam and Muslim ways, living in a part of the world where those ways are demonstrated in spades daily, particularly with respect to Christians and other minorities and he publically converts to Christianity. In the process he knowingly endangers himself, his immediate family members, his wife and children as well as, probably, other Christians in the vicinity.
And, of course, the Muslim community reacts just as he must have know it would, him being an educated expert in Islam according to the article.
Is this fellow a sadomasochist, simply an idiot, or raving insane? Somehow I fail to see alternatives. Somebody give me a clue please.
Jax Tolmen says
I’d say he’s a brave man. Although, bravery is often inseparable from insanity so you may have a point.
It could be argued his public conversion was an attempt to effect change for the greater good, hoping to convert more of his wayward brothers into better people.
Kepha says
The Holy Spirit of God working through the Word of the Gospel does marvelous things.
Bro. Nick Nicholas says
@ Kepha – Well said – AMEN! – and AMEN! – and AMEN!
As it is written in “the word of the God”, the Holy Bible :
“¶ For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.”
(Is 55:8-9 [KJV])
Thank “the LORD GOD” for “the few in number” that are truly ‘Biblical CHRISTians’ and are ‘sold out’ to Him – regardless of the personal cost!:
“Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth’s sake.
Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?
But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.”
(Ps 115:1-3 [KJV])
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famulus says
If he were an educated Communist – say, in China – who turned away from his theories and became anti-Communist, you would call him a hero, a dissident, he would be offered asylum, the world media will keep him in focus etc etc.
But he was an educated Mohameddan who turned to Christianity – and you call him idiot, insane, sadomaso…
Something is wrong with you, guy.
deja vu says
@ Jacksonl03
Is this fellow a sadomasochist, simply an idiot, or raving insane? Somehow I fail to see alternatives. Somebody give me a clue please.
————————————————————————————————
The clue is that the man is a follower of Christ and, as such, he is prepared to do as Jesus did – sacrifice himself for the sake of the lost. He is obeying what is known as The Great Commission, the last command Jesus gave His disciples before He left them, and all His true followers since. I quote:
Matthew 28:18-20
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
This section of Scripture is known as the Great Commission. As the last recorded personal directive of the Savior to his disciples, it holds great significance to all followers of Christ. It is the foundation for evangelism and cross-cultural missions work in Christian theology. Because the Lord’s instructions were to go to all nations and that he would be with us until the very end of the age, Christians of all generations have embraced this command. As many have said, it’s not “The Great Suggestion.” No, the Lord has commanded us to put our faith in action.
You are seeing things through worldly eyes. The Kingdom of God is not of this world.
Jacksonl03 says
“The clue is that the man is a follower of Christ and, as such, he is prepared to do as Jesus did – sacrifice himself for the sake of the lost. He is obeying what is known as The Great Commission, the last command Jesus gave His disciples before He left them, and all His true followers since. I quote:”
Quote all you want. Fact is he was endangering folks other than himself, including a wife and maybe children he had presumably sworn to love and protect. In my thoughts this isn’t bravery or logical or Christian kindness. He’s either nuts or selfishly arrogant.
‘Nuff said.
deja vu says
Jackson 103
The point is the article makes is that ‘tragic as the story of Uganda’s Hassan Muwanguzi is, he is only one of countless Christians and other minorities living under, and losing everything to, Islam.’
It is interesting how both secularists and Muslims always resort to ad hominems when they are presented with the cost of following Jesus Christ. Not to worry we’re used to that. They called Jesus names too, mocked Him, totured Him and cricified Him. He taught that those who persecute His followers are also persecuting Him.
v4 And falling to the ground he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” v5 And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
(Acts 9:4-5)
The reality is that you will never have the atheist/secularist Utopia you desire – banish Christ and Islam will fill the vacuum. Man is born to worship. If he refuses to worship God he will worship (give worth to) something or someone else – usually himself and his own intellect.
gravenimage says
Jacksonl03 wrote:
Okay. I’m a bit confused. I’m aware of several stories along these lines…
Is this fellow a sadomasochist, simply an idiot, or raving insane? Somehow I fail to see alternatives. Somebody give me a clue please.
………………………….
Jackson, does this mean that you don’t believe that anyone should exercise freedom of conscience in the face of a brutal creed?
That no one should resist Fascism, Stalinism, Islam, or any other vicious creed lest he be condemned not just by the tyrants themselves, but by *free people* who have the fortune to live outside that tyranny?
Germans who hid their Jewish neighbors during the Holocaust were certainly endangering themselves, and sometimes their loved ones and neighbors, as well.
Would you have described them as sadomasochists, insane, or idiots, as well?
I call any who resist this kind of savagery as *heroes*.
Jacksonl03 says
Point taken. That is to say: to a point.
I’m afraid though that I can’t equate converting from one religion to another in the environment under discussion with saving someone’s life as some Germans (and Poles, Frenchmen, et al.) did. His conversion under those circumstances predictably accomplished nothing heroic for anyone other than perhaps himself while endangering those related to him.
Jae M says
There are places to help these persecuted Christians. If you want to help as directly as possible consider a donation and spread the word.
https://secure.persecution.com/email/displacedmosuliraq.aspx?source=EMAIL121
Bro. Nick Nicholas says
@ Jae M – I would strongly advise reading the letter from Michael Wurmbrand before having anything to do with ‘Voice of the Martyrs’ here in the US.
I used to – but now will not support, attend, or subscribe to any of their publications.
I personally called their headquarters several months ago to tell them why – and to let them know that I would tell others why.
The man I spoke with told me that he would ask the current director to call me – he has not.
Richard Wurmbrand’s Son, Michael Wurmbrand, Comes Forth – Asks VOM to Allow Independent Investigation
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=14889
Bro. Nick Nicholas
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Bro. Nick Nicholas says
How few real ‘Biblical CHRISTians’ have wept true and sincere tears for
– and effectively and fervently offered Biblical Prayers and Supplication unto “the Lord God Almighty” for our CHRISTian Brothers and Sisters who are undergoing such Persecution – in Uganda – in Pakistan – in North Korea – in Iran – in Sudan – in the Maldives – in Mexico – in MORE THAN 110 COUNTRIES all around the world? – TODAY – RIGHT NOW
There are reports that more than ONE HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND men, women, boys, girls – including babies – have been – and are being Martyred each and every year since AD 2000!
That means that more than TWO MILLION – 2,000,000+ people have been burned alive, beheaded, hung, tortured, or otherwise Martyred unto physical death for their personal faith in their Lord and Saviour – “Jesus the Christ”!
I often very seriously wonder if “the only wise God” will cause our CHRISTian brethren to not remember – or think about – or care about those that call themselves ‘Christians’ if/when real Persecution comes here to increasingly Apathetic, Complacent, Contented, Lukewarm, Laodicean, Apostate ‘Amerika’?
The following YouTube video is only 3:47 long – how few will even take the time to watch – to listen – to think about it?
It was filmed over 4 years ago – but is more valid now than when Bro. Paul Washer made the prediction of the very real possibility of Future suffering in AMERICA!!! (Persecution – or – ‘Great Awakening)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BtVP37SWqs
How few there are that truly believe and do that which ‘Biblical CHRISTians’ should want to do because of our love and thankfulness to our Lord and Saviour “Jesus Christ”?:
“BE KINDLY AFFECTIONED ONE TO ANOTHER WITH BROTHERLY LOVE; IN HONOUR PREFERRING ONE ANOTHER;
Not slothful in business;
FERVENT IN SPIRIT; SERVING THE LORD;
Rejoicing in hope;
– PATIENT IN TRIBULATION; CONTINUING INSTANT IN PRAYER;
Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.
BLESS THEM WHICH PERSECUTE YOU: BLESS, AND curse not.
Rejoice with them that do rejoice,
– AND WEEP WITH THEM THAT WEEP.
BE OF THE SAME MIND ONE TOWARD ANOTHER.
– Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.”
(Rom 12:10-17 [KJV])
How few are there that actually believe in the real and eternally continuing truth that “the LORD JEHOVAH” still answers the Biblical Prayers and Supplications of His saints:
II Chron 7:14 | Matt 21:21-22 | Eph 6:18 | James 5:13-16
– All CAPITALization and emphasis of Holy Scriptures mine – Bro. Nick
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deja vu says
Bro. Nick
There are reports that more than ONE HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND men, women, boys, girls – including babies – have been – and are being Martyred each and every year since AD 2000!
——————————————————————————————————-
Last time a census was taken it was approximately 176,000, but accurate figures are hard to obtain because so many are killed in very remote areas of the world. It may well be a conservative figure.
However, it is widely reported that there have been more Christians killed for their faith in the last 50 years than in the last 20 centuries. In the past 100 years 26,000,000 Christians were killed for their faith. This is more than the combined total of all previous centuries. It does not count the untold numbers who were persecuted in other ways, imprisoned, tortured, and enslaved.
Each year the number rises while the world yawns – or, as Jackson103 et al believe, they bring it on themselves and dismiss the reality with a casual ’nuff said’. When Islam catches up with atheists they will find the crocodile eats them first (’nuff said). At least the Islamobutchers claim to have some ‘respect’ for those they call the people of the book to leave them till last. But you and I know that they will not ultimately prevail, and that all things are pointing to the soon return of Christ.
Jen says
it is widely reported that there have been more Christians killed for their faith in the last 50 years than in the last 20 centuries.
—————————————-
I get spooked when I read these kinds of things…
There’s no way to verify the precise number but basically, it is *a lot.*
I wish we would swap Christians from persecuted areas with Muslims already in the west. It’s sad though, that Christians should feel they need to leave *their* hometown. It has historical significance for them and their family are buried there. Same as my family. This is how I feel when I think about them leaving. It is *our* home. Why the hell should we? This is what Muslims want. To take our land and make us as miserable as possible. Muslims destroy every peace loving place no earth.
Jen says
*on
Yeah, it might be ‘no earth’ in future if we keep up with appeasing the Muslim savages..
Bro. Nick Nicholas says
@ Deja Vu – I said ‘more than 150,000’, partly because there are ‘conflicting statistics’ – AND the very sad truth is that the statement made by Stalin during his intentional starving to death untold millions of Ukrainians – ‘A Single Death is a Tragedy; a Million Deaths is a Statistic’ is true, for the mind of man simply cannot really comprehend really large numbers.
I think that your statement ‘Each year the number rises while the world yawns …’ is in large part because of the increasingly common widespread use of ‘impersonal’ ‘numbers’ and ‘statistics’.
People ARE NOT just numbers on a piece of paper or a computer monitor
– – AND – –
Folks ARE NOT just statistics on a graph.
When I think about and pray for MY Persecuted Brothers and Sisters all around the world, I consciously think about them as individual ‘folks’ – Moms and Dads, Brothers and Sisters, Sons and Daughters, other family members, and personal friends.
I have pictures where I can see them while I’m at my computer – one is from the cover of a CHRISTian Ministry and it is labeled ‘The Terror and Persecution of Iraqi Christians’ – it shows the face of an older man with such deep anguish and grief holding onto a younger man / another is of four young Ukrainian orphans praying / there are two personal photos from Christian Pastors in Vietnam that I help support (I’m a VN vet) / another is the picture of a man holding a metal cross from a burned out church in Africa / and I have pictures of my deceased wife, our son and our granddaughter – these pictures remind me that what is happening to members of my CHRISTian family are very personal to me – wherever and whoever they may be – FOR THOSE ARE PICTURES OF MY CHRISTIAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS!!!
While I have been writing this, I have thought about, have wept for, and prayed for MY Brothers and Sisters in “the Lord Jesus Christ” all around the world! Oh the wonder of “the truth” that is written to me – and to all of us – all through-out “the word of the LORD”:
“Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another,
LOVE AS BRETHREN,
be pitiful, be courteous:”
(1 Peter 3:8 [KJV])
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Jen says
Makes me sad. This is the plight of many people. Not all of the stories will make the media. Muslims behave like an entitled people who always want the upper hand. Christians are not going to be safe so long as there are Muslims around them. It just hasn’t become concentrated enough in the west yet for people to understand. When it’s their own family resisting Muslim attempts to subjugate them, they’ll stop worrying about all this “my religion is Christianity and Christianity tells me to make peace with everyone” and blah blah and “I don’t want to upset God’s harvest by reacting aggressively and scare potential Muslim converts to Christianity away.” They’re holier than thou at the moment, but it won’t last when its them on the chopping block.
To stop the west from eventually resembling the problems found in developing countries, it is better show aggression and clamp down hard. Sooner rather than later; when the situation isn’t completely out of hand. The Muslim population, if allowed to remain in the west will grow. Where does that leave Christians? There won’t be many safe havens left in the world that are free from Muslim aggression if we keep allowing them to flood every corner of the world. If they want to remain with their ‘religion’ a non-Muslim (once the west is educated about Islam) will never be able to trust a Muslim. So you’ll be reluctantly tolerating them and their menace of a presence indefinitely. The Christians’ display of tolerance will then be interspersed with random, unexpected outbursts of Muslim violence, whenever and however they like. What a sh*t thing to have hanging over peoples’ heads.
terry says
They have not lost! They have won. And I pray that any and all of us who call Jesus Christ Lord would be willing to win just as they are! These people are my heroes! And my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ! ” I am ‘N’!”
Bro. Nick Nicholas says
@ terry – ‘They have won’ – AMEN!
Thanks be unto “the LORD GOD” there are always the “few in number”, “the remnant”, the truly “converted”, “saved”, “born again”, “bought with a price”, true believers and followers of “the Lord Jesus Christ” – ‘Biblical CHRISTians’ – that truly believe “the truth” that the Apostle Paul wrote in “the word of the LORD”:
We are confident, I say, AND WILLING RATHER TO BE ABSENT FROM THE BODY, AND TO BE PRESENT WITH THE LORD.
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
(2 Cor 5:8-11 [KJV])
– CAPITALization of Holy Scripture mine – Bro. Nick
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Dwimidha M says
There is a fundamental similarity between Christianity and Islam. While Judaism does not feel compelled to force others to think like themselves, both Christianity and Islam impose a duty on their followers. From Indian context, we have a conflict situation
More here
http://notcovered.blogspot.in/2014/10/is-christianity-any-different-from.html
deja vu says
There is a fundamental similarity between Christianity and Islam. While Judaism does not feel compelled to force others to think like themselves, both Christianity and Islam impose a duty on their followers.
———————————————————————————————————
This is an absurd comparison and shows your total lack of knowledge about the Christian faith. Islam imposes, forces, compels with threats and cruelty. Jesus leads as a shepherd, His followers follow in His footsteps of their own choice because they love Him. There is no coercion, compulsion, no manipulation. The Great Commission is a command from Jesus to His followers to be like Him, loving their enemies and praying for those who hate them. Jesus didn’t compel and threaten and neither do His followers whose whole desire is to become more and more Christlike.
The God of the Bible IS love. He doesn’t just *feel love*, He IS love. God so *loved* the world that He gave His only Son to pay the penalty for our sin and ‘set the captives’ (to sin) free.’ We love God because He loved us first. The Bible is full of love verses. It was God’s idea that man should have free will. He wants us to be free to love Him just as a human father loves his child. Love isn’t love when it is a command – it’s a duty.
Please don’t fall into the trap of thinking that Europeans = Christians and don’t confuse political agendas with Christianity. Unlike Islam and Hinduism, it isn’t a political movement at all. Jesus taught to ‘give to Caesar (the secular governing authority) what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.’ They rule two different kingdoms, earthly and spiritual.
Hindu nationalists have also persecuted Christians for spreading the Good News that God designed mankind to be free. They erroneously claim that Hindu converts to Christianity have been paid to do so. They harrass, drive out and even kill Christians in areas such as Orissa. The problem they have is that once Hindus have been set free by Jesus they will disrupt the cruel caste system. You can hardly claim that Hinduism has brought joy and freedom to the Dalits, the outcasts forced to do the most filthy jobs and live in abject poverty. The stranglehold of the occult idea of ‘karma’ causes a great deal of suffering. Where is the compassion in Hinduism for your fellow man? You cannot claim the moral high ground when you treat people in this way.
Dwimidha M says
I will let this video partly answer you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRSRo7k9ZcU&feature=youtu.be
Why should conversion of people into Christianity be full time employment for so many all over the world?
Who is paying for it? As for the ruse Christians employ in India, go through the links here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10oDS09GP24 – wants to change India to Christian Nation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI8eFWFgl5w
“Need the fear of God” What happens to Love of God? LOL
And you can see how fundamentalist Hindus deal with him. 🙂
Toalks of Church infiltrating Govt.
When you admit ‘spreading the good word’ it is euphemism for conversion, a duty imposed by Christianity on its members to bring others into their fold. In this aspect Christianity is same as Islam. It uses ruses, ‘fear of God’ etc while Islam uses Sword, rape etc.
Bro. Nick Nicholas says
@ Dwimidha M – “The word of the LORD”, the Holy Bible tells CHRISTians why we are to tell others that there is truly the good news of eternal life – which is only through “the Lord Jesus Christ”:
(6) Jesus saith unto him,
I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
(7) If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
(John 14:6-7 [KJV])
– –
(10) He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
(11) And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
(12) HE THAT HATH THE SON HATH LIFE;
and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
(13) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
(1 John 5:10-13 [KJV])
It is every persons choice to accept – OR to reject – the free gift of Biblical Salvation – for:
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward,
NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH,
but that all should come to repentance.”
(2 Pet 3:9 || also read 1 Tim 2:4 | Ezek 18:30-32 [KJV])
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gravenimage says
Dwimidha M wrote:
There is a fundamental similarity between Christianity and Islam. While Judaism does not feel compelled to force others to think like themselves…
…………………………..
What absolute crap—the idea that peaceful proselytizing is the same as organized oppression, forced conversion, and murder is ludicrous and false.
Moreover, anyone can leave Christianity. Not so Islam, which has the death penalty for apostasy.
Dwimidha M says
Similarity is different from ‘sameness’
Peaceful is a self-satisfying description.
Having looted India for 250 years, the Christians proselytizing machinery targets the poor with ruse, money, threat of God etc. I have posted enough evidence as link.
They even dress up as Hindu monks, adapt Hindu symbols like a cheap imitation product tying to cut into the original.
In the end, in that duty imposed on Christianity to stop others from thinking differently, it only shows it intolerance, but demonstrates in non-violent way. But the ruthless power of money is not concealed.
Jen says
I’m happy to include everyone in this fight against Islam, including Hindus or those from other religions or no religion. Particularly those living in the West who are facing the same problems and who want to live in peace like the rest of us. But as the other comments have said, trying to compare the abomination that is Islam to Christianity is taking it too far.
I believe that people of other religions or the non-religious are probably frustrated by the comments of imposing Christians on here and that’s the reason behind this sort of comment. They want to protect their own way of life too, and when Christians state something as “truth” to a person of a different religion or no religion, it is probably irritating to them. It is “truth” for Christians but not for non-Christians, so a little respect for others in this regard would be helpful from my fellow Christians. It’s a bit embarrassing. We’re not all like this. I promise. Some are capable of recognising that not everyone sees the world through a Christian set of glasses. If you were of a different religion, and you read some of the comments on here in general, it could easily be perceived as condescending.
As for the religious bigots on here. Cut it out. Focus on Islam more. You don’t realise how you look to others and then get mad when people give you negative feedback for your beliefs (probably in real life as well). You probably imposed on them first by stating something to be a “fact” when it was only a fact for you (ignoring their personal right to disagree with you), and when they reacted to being imposed upon, you behaved like it was their fault for making fun of you. Am I right? There are more subtle ways of doing these things. If you want to convert more people to Christianity who aren’t swivel eyed loons, you might be better to go with the more subtle approach because they will appreciate it and listen to you more.
Dwimdha M says
Not that I am not part of the fight we all know we should ..
http://notcovered.blogspot.in/2014/08/isis-on-rampage-how-tolerant-can-we-be.html
Jen says
Well..
This person has created a blog surrounding this matter so I’m going to retract my statement about being frustrated by Christians on here. This person probably doesn’t visit this site much. Though, still my comment stands in general.
If Christians want more Christians to stand up for other Christians who are persecuted, it would better not to alienate them by telling them they aren’t real Christians. Or by telling Catholics they aren’t Christians. If they come from a Christian background then they know that they’re supposed to follow the example of Jesus so appealing to this as well as their humanity is the better approach, I think.
I would say that many Christians aren’t even aware of the extent of Christian persecution, actually. I’ve been to different kinds of churches in the past, just out of curiosity and they focus so much on their own agenda of growing their church rather than helping others in the community. These kinds of churches do bother me but I don’t fault the young attendees there as much as the people who are supposed to be leading it. The leaders are the ones that set the agenda so…They should focus on worthwhile causes and encourage the people attending to do the same.
deja vu says
The root problem, Jen, is that we live in an age of relative truth – true for you but not for me. This has crept into western culture quite recently, and the virtue of ‘tolerance’ has become elevated to such an extent that we find ourselves unwittingly tolerating the intolerable. For who is to say *what* is intolerable when all values, all beliefs, are deemed equal?
We are faced with a dilemma now that Islam is in the ascendancy. It has no tolerance whatsoever for ‘diversity’ and other such sentiments. It does not appreciate the finer points of Western niceties and the desire to be seen as ‘tolerant’ of other points of view. So how do we defend our beliefs if to do so is dismissed as being intolerant, or worse, bigoted by our own side? Having rejected absolute truth in favour of relative truth, we’re seen as having no beliefs or culture worth defending. Sitting ducks for a takeover, then – no convictions to defend our culture, our faith (if we have one) or our nations. Vulnerable, weak, cowardly, is how we’re seen by Muslims who are more than ready to fill the vacuum left by our tender sensibilities and lack of conviction. A house divided against itself cannot stand.
As for the persecuted, many are Catholics, especially in India and Pakistan. Protestants and Catholics both advocate for them, support them and pray for them despite Catholics regarding Protestants as ‘separated brethren’. I guess you’ve never read the RC view of Protestants! But we have a common cause. We hate injustice towards those who have not broken any laws, or committed any crime, but are simply non-Muslims which is regarded as ‘blasphemy’ against Mohammed.
You say, ‘There are more subtle ways of doing these things. If you want to convert more people to Christianity who aren’t swivel eyed loons, you might be better to go with the more subtle approach because they will appreciate it and listen to you more.’
So, you’re advising Christians to be more subtle in their approach while calling would-be converts ‘swivel eyed loons’?? Don’t worry, no human being can ‘convert’ another to Christianity – that is the work of God Himself. All we are required to do is to give them the Gospel. They can accept it or reject it, as they choose.
You state: ‘As for the religious bigots on here. Cut it out. Focus on Islam more.’
The topic of this thread is the persecution of Christians by Muslims. I’m not sure how we can ‘focus more’ on the perpetrators without also focussing on the victims.
Jen says
: ‘As for the religious bigots on here. Cut it out. Focus on Islam more.’
———————————–
There are religious bigots on almost every thread. Are you one of them? Recognise yourself in what I said so that’s why you’re bothered?
Is THAT why you went ahead and ‘qualified’ my comment about the church by mentioning that they were CATHOLIC and not merely Christian on the other thread? Just so your version of Christianity didn’t ‘get blamed.’ Yep…Ya, did.
There are different ways of explaining something to someone without implying that you are correct, and they are not- since religion is a very touchy subject in PARTICULAR. And it is very personal.
There are too many Christians that don’t use their brains and quote endlessly out of the Bible while assuming they are superior to everyone else who doesn’t. Character is far more important than words on a page. The words are important but SO IS YOUR BEHAVIOUR. Tell me that there isn’t something wrong with that attitude.
There is no reason why anyone should tell somebody, particularly on a website about Islam that your version of religion is the “truth” and theirs isn’t. The atheists are allowed to give their opinion without you acting as if your version of the world is the only acceptable one.
This is why some people resist Christianity- because they meet too many people who are too condescending within the religion and they assume everyone in the religion is like that. It is a turn off. Maybe you are too blind to see it. You are a detriment to the cause of Christianity if you don’t see that.
I don’t assume that people who reject it outright are a lost cause. They just need a gentler and more subtle approach. You just see it as black or white, accept or reject then?
Some people are genuine nutcases who lord their religious views over everyone else- they are the easiest to convert because they were probably already like that in life to begin with- on all other matters besides religion.
And no….
You’re not a better Christian than me because I try to be fair to people of other religious beliefs or no religion. Never start on the “you must not be a real Christian then” path with me.
Jen says
And my comment was in relation to the remarks from non-Catholics who make snide remarks about Catholics on here. Or link to webpages which blatantly say that Catholics aren’t Christian. Hopeless to tell these people that this won’t help against the cause of Islam to tell other Christians they aren’t Catholic- guess you didn’t read that! (or maybe you missed it because it conformed to your own religious bigotry and didn’t bother you!).
Jen says
Hopeless to tell these people that this won’t help against the cause of Islam to tell other Christians they aren’t Catholic- guess you didn’t read that! (or maybe you missed it because it conformed to your own religious bigotry and didn’t bother you!).
—————————————
Correction: tell Catholics they aren’t Christian.
Jen says
So how do we defend our beliefs if to do so is dismissed as being intolerant, or worse, bigoted by our own side?
————————————————————–
This comment here. This is exactly what I’m talking about.
This isn’t about sides. I’m on the ‘side’ of my fellow people. As many of them as possible.
You defended your beliefs by TELLING someone who is obviously non-religious that your version of the world, as through the eyes of Christianity, was true.
Do you realise that the world isn’t the same place anymore? And that there are plenty of non-religious people who are resistant to religion? And that TELLING them it is true, rather than explaining to them your personal perspective will only turn them off? They don’t care what you think is true. It has no relevance to them. And they think you’re a religious bigot. Choosing to factor this into your approach with people is a wise thing to do. You’re imposing upon them and obviously don’t respect them enough to consider this. That’s how it looks.
Jen says
I just read your other comments…
You said:
Don’t worry, no human being can ‘convert’ another to Christianity
——————————————————————————–
So this person is telling me (AGAIN, condescendingly as though it is true) that his approach to dealing with people has nothing to do with converting them to Christianity.
I can’t take anyone who thinks like that seriously. You are rejecting basic psychology. Blast someone with your religious beliefs which they don’t agree with, and you will create a wall between yourself and them which you will need to work extra hard to overcome. If they walk away from you because they don’t like you, that is your own doing and not God’s. You’re serving your own ego, while saying its about defending Christianity, and you don’t even realise it.
Jen says
Just read a bit of their blog in which they said:
“Not for a moment I believe that Islam is evil and Christianity is not. I am aware, in every living breath, both religions are evil.” <– What a load of crap.
You're obviously not going to be any help in this fight against Islam with an attitude like that…
Thankfully, there are other Hindus on this site who don't appear to think the same way.
Dwimidha M says
When the first European put his feet in the land of Indian Sub-Continent, proselytizing was one of the top priorities. For hundred of years Europeans have plundered India and today they are busy teaching false history to Indians, sowing seeds of hatred between one and the other, in the rift, harvest souls. There are charlatans in India who collect $ per head converted and these agents are funded by Christ followers. If this is not evil, I do not know one. To call it ‘crap of load’ is a pathetic attempt to divert the sins of Christians.
We fight Islam alright. Not as a competitors like Christians do. We fight without expecting anything in return. No soul harvesting like the predatory Christians.
Read it here. http://artoflivingabc.blogspot.in/
Nothing expected in return. No attempt to convert. That is love for humanity.
Christianity, when masquerading as altruistic religion, stands exposed of its hypocrisy because in the end it is not a selfless service. It expects others to convert. It threatens with dire consequences after death.
Islam is bereft of that hypocrisy. If you do not agree, you are killed here. In that there is a difference. The objective is same.
Jen says
This website is about Islam.
There are Christians that have behaved terribly but this is not because of Christianity in and of itself.
That is why I said it was crap. It is waste of time arguing with you about it because you won’t be able to convince me of this matter. You have your own views, which I accept.
As far as Christians behaving like this is a competition? I agree with you and I can’t stand it. It is not a competition and I find their attitudes revolting. Personally, for MYSELF I believe that Christianity is the best. And I will try to share my views on the matter with others. But it is not because I believe I’m superior to those who do not regard themselves as Christian. There is an element of this among many Christians but they only have themselves to blame. Their attitudes make me embarrassed to associate with them.
Jen says
And I see what you’re saying by the way. And I acknowledge that it is, or appears to be predatory from the perspective of your culture. And I am sorry for this.
There are many elements of Christianity which are really worthwhile. It should not all be about conversion and assuming that the person isn’t saved if they’re not converted to Christianity. It should focus on community work as well- to people of all religions. Not just Christians. And this should be done, regardless of whether you expect anyone to convert or not.
Many people are Christian by name and have atrocious character. The people of other religions with better behaviour will fare better off in God’s eyes, in my view.
Christians telling me otherwise make me want to stop identifying as a Christian, just so I don’t have to deal with Christians telling me I shouldn’t be tolerant. Like the people commenting above me, here. That’s the danger of putting a label on yourself.
gravenimage says
Dwimidha M wrote:
From the linked website:
“Not for a moment I believe that Islam is evil and Christianity is not. I am aware, in every living breath, both religions are evil.”
…today they [Christians] are busy teaching false history to Indians, sowing seeds of hatred between one and the other
……………………………..
If you believe that the savagery of Muslims to Hindus in India and Pakistan is due to Christians teaching “false history” then I;n afraid you know nothing about your own.
Muslims have slaughtered more people in India than anywhere else—Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists—and this is saying a great deal, given Islam’s appalling body count.
Most of this horrific blood-letting much preceded *any* Western presence in India.
Bro. Nick Nicholas says
@ Jen & Dwimidha M – Please do not assume that you can know or understand the thoughts and actions of those “few in number” of us that are truly “born again” ‘Biblical CHRISTians’.
Very unfortunately there always have been – and still are – many that are charlatans and fakes that masquerade and use the name of ‘Christianity’ for their own devious and selfish purposes!
– just as there always have been – and still are – many that are charlatans and fakes that masquerade and use the names of ‘many others’ for their own devious and selfish purposes!
As unbelievers in “the LORD GOD”, you can have absolutely no real comprehension of ‘Biblical CHRISTianity’ – for “the Lord God Almighty” has written in “the word of the LORD”, “the truth”, the Holy Bible:
“THE FOOL HATH SAID IN HIS HEART, THERE IS NO GOD.
Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity:
there is none that doeth good.”
(Psalm 53:1 [KJV])
“FOR THE PREACHING OF THE CROSS IS TO THEM THAT PERISH FOOLISHNESS;
but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. ”
(1 Cor 1:18 [KJV])
– CAPITALization and emphasis of Holy Scripture mine – Bro. Nick
.
Jen says
As unbelievers in “the LORD GOD”, you can have absolutely no real comprehension of ‘Biblical CHRISTianity’ – for “the Lord God Almighty
———————————————————–
You condescending prick. Don’t you DARE tell me what I am. Tell me, what kind of person are you in real life? How do you treat people?
Forget what you know about the Bible- what is your behaviour like?
You mentioned being a convert to Christianity some years ago – maybe you are precisely the kind of person I am talking about.
I am utterly embarrassed to call myself a Christian and have to defend my religious beliefs twice over because of people like you who treat others like they are lesser than you because they don’t quote the Bible incessantly at every opportunity. You’re no better than any other Christian, just because you do. If anything, it shows how rotten you are to even think that.
Get lost. If anyone is not a Christian, it is most probably you. You’re a Bible quote artist with no substance to your character.
Bro. Nick Nicholas says
@ Jen – I sincerely apologize for my including you in the comment to Dwimidha M
I was WRONG. I mis-understood your comments – Bro. Nick
Jen says
And “Bro Nick” ?- Try talking about Islam on this website which is about ISLAM, once in a while. Instead of pissing everyone off with your ‘capitalization’ on every damn thing you write on nearly every thread. Just to remind all the other Christians out there, lurking on this forum, that they aren’t as ‘good as you.’
Please. Just by your attitude alone, I already sense the kind of person you must be. You’re a lunatic. Probably in all other aspects of your life as well but Christianity just so happens to be your newest vehicle to display your lunacy. Almost as bad as the Jew-hating Christian on here who has convinced himself that he’s actually a Christian. Yep. He may quote the Bible but he has no substance to his character. Words on a page. Never brought to life. I’ll put you in that bucket along with him. Get lost.
Jen says
Good. I appreciate your apology. But you should stop doing what you’re doing. Other Christians are probably reading what you write and feeling excluded because of what you’re saying. They’re coming here to learn about Islam and don’t need to be given a hard time about their Christian beliefs as well.
Mathew says
Dwimidha, you are pretending to be ignorant of history. Hinduism converted every single nation from Sri Lanka to Japan, wiping out all the native religions in Cambodia, China, Tibet and Japan in the process.
The present day Hindus too spread their religion through ISKCON, Chinmaya Mission, Ramakrishna Mission etc. So, what are you cribbing about?
First see the log in your own eye and then you will be able to see speck in other’s eyes better.
gravenimage says
Raymond Ibrahim: Christians ‘Losing Everything’ to Islam
…………………………….
And note that this oppression and harassment is going on in a country that is only 10% Muslim.
I worked at the International House as a room cleaner when I was first a student at Berkeley. One of the best people I ever worked with there was a highly educated student whose Christian family had lost everything and had had to flee Uganda first for Kenya, then for Britain.
His family had been quite wealthy, and he thought he would be living well at university. Instead, while he had an academic scholarship, he suddenly found himself having to scramble for a job to cover living expenses.
He was surprisingly philosophical, and wanted to return to Uganda once Idi Amin was gone. He wanted to see a democratic Uganda.
I learned from him that Idi Amin was a supremacist Muslim who specifically oppressed non-Muslims as well as anyone who dared oppose him—before this, I had just considered him a particularly ugly third world dictator.
That was the same year that he was eventually ousted—as well as the year Iran came under the sway of the Mullahs. It would take me years more, though, to really understand the grim role that Islam played in these events.
Even now, of course, Muslims in Uganda are doing all they can to impose Shari’ah norms where they can—especially on apostates from Islam like Hassan Muwanguzi.
deja vu says
Jen:
There are different ways of explaining something to someone without implying that you are correct, and they are not- since religion is a very touchy subject in PARTICULAR. And it is very personal.
——————————————————————————————————
I am a flawed, fallen human being, VERY far from perfect. This discussion is not about me and my many failings, but about the increasing persecution of Christians.
Jesus always spoke plainly, offending many of the establishment in the process – so much so they sought to kill Him on several occasions. This is not *my* opinion (which is of no account) but Scripture, which is God’s Word. Jesus said, “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No-one comes to the Father except through me.”(John 14:6)
It *is* offensive to those who are unwilling to humble themselves, it’s meant to be. God loves you so much He wants you to be rattled – I can tell you I was shaken to the core when I first had an inkling of what God was trying to tell me. Up ’till then I had believed in reincarnation and was angry when I found I couldn’t believe in both reincarnation and the resurrection. I had to be stripped of all I thought made sense and brought very low before God could get my attention.
For what it’s worth, my paternal grandfather was born in India. He was not a missionary but a civil engineer. My maternal grandfather was a doctor who spoke 8 languages, 5 of them Indian languages. He loved the Indian people with a passion, and they loved him back. My family was not Christian. My mother was effectively a spiritualist and my father a universalist. Both spoke Hindustani fluently. I had a childlike knowledge of Jesus as He hadn’t been drummed out of our schools and culture then.
Our Hindu poster forgets the positives of the Colonial era, the building of hospitals, schools, orphanages, leper colonies, civil service, extensive infrastructure and democratic government which exists to this day. Today India is prosperous and thriving, unlike Pakistan and Bangladesh. But it can’t be denied that separating people into castes and believing that some are ‘untouchable’ because of sin in their previous life, is inhumane. By contrast, Jesus came to forgive the sinner and save the lost. High caste Hindus naturally feel threatened when their underclass, slave labour in dire poverty, stripped of all dignity and hope, are given a nourishing meal each day, medical care, schooling and loving concern. These are exactly the kind of people Jesus walked amongst, valued, healed and minstered to. The religious elites of His time hated Him for it. What has changed today?
Christians are not surprised when they are persecuted – it is a sign that they are being God’s hands and feet on earth, and proclaiming His Word which sets men free from bondage. In Matthew 5:11 Jesus told the crowd, “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven.”