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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Turkey’s science minister: Muslims discovered the earth is round

Nov 29, 2014 11:09 am By Robert Spencer

Fikri IşıkAll this endless chest-thumping about Muslims having discovered this and invented that doesn’t really establish what it is intended to establish: that Islam makes for a great civilization. All it does is beg the question of why, if Muslims accomplished all this, they didn’t do anything with it. Muslims discovered the earth was round, and yet it took a kaffir, Christopher Columbus, to prove it by daring to sail West from Europe. Why didn’t any Muslim do that, except in Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s book of historical myths?

“Muslims discovered Earth is round, Turkey’s Science Minister says,” Hürriyet Daily News, November 29 2014 (thanks to Twostellas):

Turkey’s Science, Industry and Technology Minister has said the fact that the Earth is a sphere was first discovered by a group of Muslim scientists.

Speaking at a reception for businessmen in the central Anatolian province of Konya late Nov 28, Minister Fikri Işık stressed the contributions of the Islamic world to science throughout history. “Some 700-800 years before Galileo, 71 Muslim scientists led by al-Khwarizmi convened by the order of the Caliph Al-Ma’mun and revealed that the Earth is a sphere,” he said. Işık added that a copy of the original document is currently in the Museum of Islamic Science and Technology in Istanbul.

The museum was founded by Fuat Sezgin, a Turkish professor emeritus on Arabic-Islamic science who was recently referred by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, too. During a speech on Nov. 18, Erdoğan quoted Sezgin’s theories for his controversial claim that the American continent was “discovered by Muslim sailors” some 300 years before Christopher Columbus.

The concept of a spherical Earth remained a matter of philosophical speculation until the 3rd century BC, when Hellenistic astronomy established the spherical shape of the earth as a physical given.

Galileo Galilei, on the other hand, was put to trial and convicted by the Roman Catholic Inquisition in 1616 and 1633 for his support of heliocentrism, a theory which is not directly related to the notion that the Earth is a sphere. Heliocentrism, the theory that the Earth was a planet that revolved around the Sun, contradicted geocentrism, the Aristotelian view that the earth was the center of the universe, which agreed with a literal interpretation of the Bible.

Around 830 AD, Caliph Al-Ma’mun commissioned a group of Muslim astronomers and geographers to measure the distance from Tadmur (Palmyra) to Raqqah in modern Syria. They calculated the Earth’s circumference, reaching to numbers very close to the currently modern values.

Today, the war-torn Raqqah is known as the stronghold of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) militants.

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Filed Under: Featured, Islamic supremacism, Turkey Tagged With: Islamic science, turkey


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Comments

  1. Neil Jennison says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 11:16 am

    Eratosthenes circa 200 BC knew the earth was a globe…..long before Mohammed inflicted his brutal religion on the world.

    • G179 says

      Nov 29, 2014 at 11:25 am

      It had already been known to Pythagoras, circa 500 BC. What Eratosthenes did is calculate the earth’s circumference quite accurately.

      • Neil Jennison says

        Nov 29, 2014 at 11:27 am

        Indeed it was believed as long ago as Pythagoras, I was just remarking that Eratosthenes’ calculations were the first real proof it was correct.

      • Jaladhi says

        Nov 29, 2014 at 11:31 am

        Wait, wait, don’t Muslims claim everybody is born as a Muslim!! There you go, Muslims invented everything of modern science, engineering, and medicine!! Also by the way, killing and murdering – yeah just a small footnote of their barbaric culture!! LOL….

    • Paul says

      Nov 29, 2014 at 11:26 am

      According to Islam, there were Muslims on Earth long before the lifetime of Muhammad. Further, the Earth’s spherical shape was discovered by Eratosthenes. So, it’s clear that Eratosthenes was a Muslim.

      In a future lesson we will explore the Islamic faith of Archimedes and of the designer(s) of the Antikythera mechanism.

      • Neil Jennison says

        Nov 29, 2014 at 11:28 am

        I hadn’t considered that.

  2. Walter Sieruk says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 11:19 am

    Actually,an ancient Greek scientist discovered that the earth is round.

    • Jayell says

      Nov 29, 2014 at 11:44 am

      “Actually,an ancient Greek scientist discovered that the earth is round.”….And I believe he may have calculated circumference amazingly accurately.

  3. jihad3tracker says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 11:21 am

    The Qur’an itself presciently proved that the Studebaker was more comfortable than the Nash — but Muslims did nothing with THAT information either ! ! !

    Do you see a pattern here ?

    • Gail Griffin says

      Nov 29, 2014 at 12:58 pm

      What about Twitter? And hash tags. Oh maybe they had something to do with hash tags.

  4. Arjun says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 11:23 am

    Round or not I am not sure about that part, but am pretty sure that Muslims discovered, or rather invented Earth 🙂

  5. Jaladhi says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 11:26 am

    Muslims are delusional which results in their habitual lying!! This moron is also suffering from he same affliction!!

  6. Ayatrollah says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 11:28 am

    Just look around where you are at and see all the stuff you enjoy from the minds believers.

  7. Pedohammed says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 11:28 am

    Muslim scientists—

    Oxymoron. How many Nobel Prizes in science do pedohammedans have again? Right… Typical of these pedophile worshipers, always stealing other people’s achievements, history and legacy. Even the tenets of Islam, like the flying horse Al-Buraq was stolen, see Pegasus.

    Islam is systematic, perpetual obscurantism, the opposite of science in fact.

  8. Zimriel says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 11:28 am

    So, can we expect the Turks to evangelise the Mutazila? to explain to the Islamic State that al-Mamun was right all along, and that the Koran was simply a text – a Divine text perhaps, but one delivered for a specific purpose?

    Nah, it’s another instance of motte-and-bailey argumentation. Claim credit for the moderates’ accomplishments (in translating Greek literature from 1000 years prior, heh) but hold to the fundamentalism at base.

  9. sencit says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 11:40 am

    The Bible told us that, thousands of years ago.
    “He sitteth above the circle of the earth”. Is.ch40 verse 22.

  10. Emilie Green says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 11:51 am

    “Turkey’s science minister: Muslims discovered the earth is round.”

    Next discovery – that this man’s skull contains a void.

  11. Jay Boo says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 12:18 pm

    Muslims — worship a broken black stone.
    Muslims — call MO a prophet

  12. Jay Boo says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 12:21 pm

    A wish stumbling in the dark for a preconceived conclusion.

  13. Wellington says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 12:21 pm

    I welcome nonsense like this, as I do the most devout Muslims acting in psychopathic fashion as their founder did (though such actions, it should be duly noted, often come at the expense of human life) because it has the overall effect of further discrediting Islam. One of the great ironies of our time is that no one can discredit Islam as a Muslim can. So I say, keep up the good work you Mo followers out there. Keep demonstrating just how ridiculous and savage your belief system is because the more you do this the faster Islam will be put on the trash heap of history. This will still take some time but it is important to reflect on how far things have come in just the last twenty years or so. There are untold millions of people worldwide who today have a very negative view of Islam (and know a great deal more about it) who didn’t just a decade or two ago. These millions will never diminish and in fact will grow exponentially over the next two or three decades because Muslims just can’t help being Muslim.

  14. Edward says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 12:24 pm

    Oh Yes! The Muslim’s have invented everything that gives us comfort and health….how come most necessities that are needed by the Muslim world is imported.

    They say that every origin of life was ordained by Allah…..a pseudo god named by a wannabe prophet who did copy all of Islam tenets from the Holy Scriptures found in the OT and the NT, then added additional passages to agree with his perverse life style. The highly redacted scriptures included strong warnings against apostasy from Islam that incited deadly fear to those that are locked-into their false religion’s mindset of primacy.

  15. JMD Ottawa says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 12:25 pm

    I know Muslims are not given to introspection because everything the prophet wrote down came directly from Allah and introspection might lead to questions about the revealed word. So best not go there. But if a Muslim ever did wonder about things, might their minds wander to the topic of Israel and the success enjoyed by the modern and prosperous Israeli state. Just how could the descendants of apes and pigs possibly be doing so much better than the followers of Islam? Why does their land bloom and ours are strife-ridden goat pastures? I know: someone did this to us. Probably the Great Satan. Death to America!

    • eduardo odraude says

      Nov 29, 2014 at 7:27 pm

      In Islam, morality is not something with its own inherent characteristics — it is defined as whatever Muhammad did and whatever the Qur’an orders. If Allah says to Muslims to be kind to other Muslims but hard on non-Muslims, that’s morality. If Allah says to behead the unbelievers, that’s morality. If Muhammad lights a fire on the Jew Kinana’s chest, in order to make Kinana tell Muhammad where a treasure is, that’s morality. If Allah says it’s okay for Muslim soldiers to rape captive non-Muslim women, and also that such rape is not adultery even with married captives, their marriage being annulled by Allah as soon as they are captured, then it’s moral to rape them. And so on. Since morality is not defined by its own inherent qualities, but as whatever Muhammad and his Allah happened to do or to order, conscience among Muslims is either irrelevant, or non-existent, or at best, secondary and surrendered to the “morality” of Muhammad. A Muslim can’t know the difference between right and wrong by looking within at conscience. Only by following Muhammad, Hadith, and Qur’an can a Muslim be “moral.” Of course, some non-religious “Muslims” might not care about Muhammad or Qur’an. Then again, you never know when a non-religious Muslim will decide to turn to his religious roots, go jihadi or jihadi-supporter, and develop a desire to see Islamic law imposed everywhere.

      • gravenimage says

        Dec 1, 2014 at 11:28 pm

        *Very* true, Eduardo. There is no true morality in Islam.

  16. Chabuco says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 12:26 pm

    Muslim scientists—

    Oxymoron. How many Nobel Prizes in science do pedohammedans have again? Right… Typical of these pedophile worshipers, always stealing other people’s achievements, history and legacy. Even the tenets of Islam, like the flying horse Al-Buraq was stolen, see Pegasus.

    Islam is systematic, perpetual obscurantism, the opposite of science in fact.

  17. ECAW says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 12:37 pm

    Well I hope these people got their comeuppance for contradicting Allah:

    Koran 15:19 (Yusuf Ali) And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.

    • Edward says

      Nov 29, 2014 at 7:04 pm

      The Omnipotent God, creator of manking and the Universe….revered by the Judeo-Christian religions is a MERCYFUL GOD. Our God, who created us in His image’ forgives all of our transgressions, including our most sinful contradictions simply by our acts of contrition……by repenting. As for Divine Intervention (comeuppance) it can happen if our transgressions are not repented for and are very serious and/or repeated often or we revere another god, for our God is a jealous God.

      Only the devil casts burning arrows (obstacles) to cause our downfall from our Creator’s mercy. We will loose God’s Mercy, again, if we don’t repent our transgressions then.

      • Edward says

        Nov 29, 2014 at 7:44 pm

        Saying by Divine Intervention for an attitude adjustment or giving Divine Retribution for man’s transgressions against human beings, with possible corporeal punishment for killing God’s creations; who He has created in His own image.

      • Edward says

        Nov 29, 2014 at 9:02 pm

        Ooops! Typo error….should be mankind, sorry.

  18. somehistory says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 12:38 pm

    The prophet Isaiah, writing in the years 778- 732 B.C.E., stated that *He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy ( Isaiah 40:22).” The “He” being described is our Creator who made the earth and all those living on it. He told Isaiah that the earth is round…like a circle.
    Moses wrote of things concerning the earth, “its cornerstone” c.1473 B.C E., which modern science has verified. He also wrote about God creating man from the “dust” of the ground (1513 B.C.E). Scientists having studied the chemical makeup of man knows that flesh has the same *ingredients* as normal dirt in the same basic proportions…i.e. gold, copper, zinc, etc.

    It seems the muslims only wish to take credit for things others appreciate and use to advantage and apply any bad things or traits to the infidel This is the mind-set of the deranged, psychopath and originates with satan. We can believe muslims like this when they say, “We lie.”

  19. TH says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 12:43 pm

    Of course, the so called golden age of Islam was due to their conquest of the Persian Empire and parts of the Byzantine one. The arabs basically iknew about goats and destroyed much of the thriving Christian civilization in places like Alexandría, Damascus and Antioch..
    How many Nobel prizes do muslims have? And how many do Jews have? Jews are barely 20 million worldwide and muslims are 1.6 billion. Instead of silly boasting they should ask themsleves why they have invented practically nohting and why their population is leaving their misrerable countries.

    • Jay Boo says

      Nov 29, 2014 at 12:54 pm

      Persians paint their Arab shackles sparkly green and bow to their slave master Allah so gracefully.

  20. Jay Boo says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 12:50 pm

    Muhammad invented a myth about a Muslim deity that would give revelations coincidentally in agreement with his every wish.

    This was after he got caught worshipping pagan satanic verse gods and babbling “The devil made me do it.”

  21. Herve says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 12:55 pm

    The quran says Earth is flat, so this nut is blaspheming islam

  22. nick says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 1:29 pm

    These are the Descriptive verses

    Sura Al-Kahf (18:47)

    And (remember) the Day We shall cause the mountains to pass away (like clouds of dust), and you will see the earth as a levelled plain, and we shall gather them all together so as to leave not one of them behind.

    Sura Taha (20:53)

    Who has made earth for you like a bed (spread out); and has opened roads (ways and paths etc.) for you therein; and has sent down water (rain) from the sky. And We have brought forth with it various kinds of vegetation.

    Sura Az-Zukhruf (43:10)

    Who has made for you the earth like a bed, and has made for you roads therein, in order that you may find your way.

    Sura Az-Zukhruf (43:38)

    Till, when (such a one) comes to Us, he says [to his Qarîn (Satan / devil companion)] “Would that between me and you were the distance of the two easts (or the east and west)” a worst (type of) companion (indeed)!

    Sura An-Naba (78:6)

    Have We not made the earth as a bed,

    Sura An-Naziat (79:30)

    And after that He spread the earth;

    These verses would only be applicable to a flat earth belief

    Sura An-Naml (27:61)

    Is not He (better than your gods) Who has made the earth as a fixed abode, and has placed rivers in its midst, and has placed firm mountains therein, and has set a barrier between the two seas (of salt and sweet water).Is there any ilâh (god) with Allâh? Nay, but most of them know not.

    Sura Al-Kahf (18:86)

    Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allâh) said (by inspiration): “O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness.”

    Sura Al-Kahf (18:90)

    Until, when he came to the rising place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We (Allâh) had provided no shelter against the sun.

    Sura Yasin (36:38)

    And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (appointed). That is the Decree of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing.

    Sura Yasin (36:40)

    It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They all float, each in an orbit.

    All these verses support a Flat earth model that the Quran is describing. I strongly encourage you to read these Suras in their entirety, to prove to yourself that I have not taken or used any verse out of context. If you feel that I have missed any verses which describe or support a spherical model, please provide me the verses from the Quran. Any imaginations not supported by a verse from the Quran will NOT be acceptable.

  23. Fred M says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 1:38 pm

    Most of the ancients believed the world to be a sphere – the Egyptians knew its polar circumference, I’ve heard it said. But the Koran still tells us that the Sun sinks in the mud at night!

    • CogitoErgoSum says

      Nov 29, 2014 at 2:13 pm

      Yes, according to the Quran the Earth can’t be round ……. it is so gloriously and immensely flat that the Sun sets in a pool of murky water on the Earth. See Surah 18:86. David Wood has a good video discussing this (see link below):

      http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2011/11/quran-error-does-sun-set-in-muddy.html

      This Turkish Science Minister is insulting the Quran.

  24. Jovial Joe says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 2:10 pm

    They’re doing a very good job presently of uninventing human rights, intellectual honesty, equality between the sexes and in general a sense of goodwill towards one’s fellow man regardless of the Faith they profess. Good job indeed dear followers of Muhammad!

  25. tomymind says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 2:14 pm

    That’s the reason arab oil millionairs and billionairs are travelling to the big devil USA to be treated by jewish doctors. LMAO. By the way is it allowed to them to use cars and cell phones, nothing in the quran about that.

  26. TomS says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 2:24 pm

    there still wrong . earth isn’t round either 😉

  27. Mirren10 says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 2:54 pm

    He looks like Gollum.

    Gollum stole the Ring, murdering Deagol to get it. Very Islamic.

    http://showbiz.publimetro.cl/showbiz/site/artic/20121214/imag/foto_0000000120121214093247.jpg

  28. livingengine says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 3:11 pm

    The fact that the Earth is spherical was common knowledge among medieval Europeans as proven by the dominant textbooks of the Early Middle Ages, the orb (globus cruciger; Latin for “cross-bearing orb”) a Christian symbol representing Christ’s (the cross) dominion over the world (the orb) used in the regalia of many kingdoms and of the Holy Roman Empire from as early as 395 and throughout the Middle Ages, and the writings of early Christian scholars including Anicius Boëthius (480–524 AD), Bishop Isidore of Seville (560–636 AD), Bishop Rabanus Maurus (780–856 AD), the monk Bede (672–735 AD), Bishop Vergilius of Salzburg (700–784 AD) and the most important and widely taught theologian of the Middle Ages; Thomas Aquinas (1225–1274 AD). The belief that medieval Christians believed in a flat earth is false, and was listed by the Historical Association of Britain in 1945 as the second of twenty in a pamphlet on common errors in history. This should not really come as much of a surprise when you consider that the Ancient Greeks Pythagoras (570–495 BC), Aristotle (384–322 BC) and Hipparchus (190–120 BC) also concluded that the earth is spherical half a millennium earlier.

    The Islamic faith stifles scientific progress and nothing demonstrates this as well as the modern-day belief that the Earth is flat. As recently as 1993 the supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia Sheik Abdul-Aziz Ibn Baaz declared “The earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment.” and in October 2007 on Al-Fayhaa TV in Iraq, a Muslim scientist also declared that the Earth is flat as evidenced by Qur’anic verses and that the Sun is much smaller than the Earth and revolves around it. http://wikiislam.net/wiki/How_Islamic_Inventors_Did_Not_Change_The_World#Earth_is_round

    • Kepha says

      Nov 29, 2014 at 7:25 pm

      Heck, as a Christian with Jewish and heathen ancestors, I freely admit that it was a Greek colonial of the 3d century B.C.–Eratosthenes–who may have been the first to make the discovery.

      • cs says

        Nov 29, 2014 at 7:47 pm

        I think there is Sumerian representation of planets, who show them round, so they had a pretty good idea that was not flat. but the Quran says it is flat.

      • DogOnPorch says

        Nov 30, 2014 at 6:37 am

        Agreement. It was Eratosthenes that took measurements of the angels sunlight down wells at different locations.

        • DogOnPorch says

          Nov 30, 2014 at 2:03 pm

          Angles, pardon.

        • voegelinian says

          Nov 30, 2014 at 3:23 pm

          An Archimedean Slip…? 🙂

      • gravenimage says

        Dec 1, 2014 at 7:11 pm

        Quite right—it was Eratosthenes in the 3rd century BC who first calculated the circumference of the earth by measuring the angle of sunlight striking two different sites in pre-Muslim north Africa. Not only was his concept correct, but his figure is amazingly close to the actual figure. Then it was Ferdinand Magellan in the early 16th century AD who proved the theory once and for all by circumnavigating the earth.

        The *only* role that Islam played at all was as a spur to European discovery, in that explorers were hoping to find a new route to the Indies, a way that was blocked by hostile Muslims. It is also notable that Spain spearheaded these explorations by funding the first exploration of Columbus the *very year*—1492—when they were *finally* free of the Muslim yoke, which they had suffered under for over 700 years.

        That is the full extent of their “contributions”.

  29. BlueRaven says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 3:55 pm

    The things that are unique and purely invented by the Muslims is Jihad, honor killing and never trust the others. That is as much contribution to the humanity you going to find in Islam.

  30. Henry says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 4:23 pm

    If Muslims ever do achieve their objective and rule over the Earth, expect an all encompassing revisionism that paints Islam and Muslims as the drivers, inventors, and authors of all things deemed good, useful, and clever.

    • Tommy Guns says

      Nov 30, 2014 at 1:43 am

      A world body of scientists and historians, has determined that the ‘Islamic Museum of Science and Technology’, is the worlds smallest museum, being no larger than your average outhouse, but containing more shit !!! Wow, who knew??!?

      • Darren says

        Nov 30, 2014 at 2:59 pm

        Bravo sir you made me snort beer out my nose. I started my day slightly early due to my football team playing, but alas our quarterback is having a love affair with interceptions today, and a certain safety keeps getting beat like a drum. I shall now drown my sorrows knowing that they will not take first place in the division.

      • voegelinian says

        Nov 30, 2014 at 4:25 pm

        A “Mohammedan Institution” (their version of the Smithsonian) would house no artifacts, other than the booty and plunder they stole by rapine over the centuries. Other than that, its principal feature would be the Headless Wing — sort of an Islamic Madame Tussauds Wax Museum of Horrors, with lifelike wax figures (some all too lifelike…) representing their hundreds of millions of victims (physical victims of mass-murder, and spiritual victims of conversion — both without heads and hearts).

      • gravenimage says

        Dec 1, 2014 at 7:24 pm

        Before the “Arab Spring”, there was an attempt to recreate the Library of Alexandria. The problem was that they could get permission in a Muslim state for only a handful of books.

        And so this library, which was intended to be some sort of beacon for the greatness of the Muslim world, was instead a mostly empty building less well-stocked than your average small-town or middle school library.

        In the wake of the Muslim Brotherhood, the project has stagnated further.

    • Sharon says

      Nov 30, 2014 at 7:30 am

      Hayshawn …. that comment was gold!!! Best taking the p**s response I’ve seen all day! 😀

  31. Henry says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 4:41 pm

    Just an after thought, didn’t the Qur’an imply the Earth was flat?

    Qur’an 71:19[edit]
    والله جعل لكم الارض بساطا
    WaAllahu jaAAala lakumu al-ardabisatan

    And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out),

    How do Muslims then square this round Earth revelation with the ‘perfect’ unalterable word of Allah?

    • Charlie Griffith says

      Nov 30, 2014 at 5:13 am

      Love your word-play with “square”……heh heh …..

  32. FarmerMike says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 5:07 pm

    There is much to ridicule and oppose about Islamic religion & history. But not everything.
    I think we should welcome them to a civilized conversation about discoveries & inventions. And we should also expect civil standards of behavior. Argue, fine. But let it be evidence-based & polite. We, too, should abide by these same standards.
    There is clear evidence that Africans, who may have been Muslims, visited the Americas before Columbus. Mali seems the most likely origin. See “They Came Before Columbus” by Van Sertima.
    The clearest evidence comes in the form of a large sculpted stone head with Negroid features, found buried in the soil in a Central American jungle, known as the famous “Olmec Head.”.
    Then there is also the “Piri Reis map” dated some 20 years AFTER Columbus’s discovery. However, the Piri Reis map, so-called after the name of a Turkish Admiral who had re-drawn a single map from a collection of maps, showing very accurately the east coast of South America, as well as Antarctica.
    Such accurate information could not have been gathered in a day, nor perhaps in a few years, even. Which sindicates that there was considerable activity & familiarity w/ the South Atlantic sea coasts. Which was probably obtained by sailing ships from coast to coast. There is much other evidence in this scholarly work, too.
    Looking farther back in time, we recognize that a lot of civilization owes its beginning to ancient Sumeria, circa 4000 to 3000BCE, well before Islam came into being. A scholar [of Jewish heritage, BTW], Noah Kramer, spent decades in the 20th century translating thousands of Sumerian clay tablets & the interpretation labors by where a well-respected scholar of Assyrian & Sumerian clay tablets, Noah Kramer, published his finding of 39 historic firsts in his book, “History Begins at Sumer.” Take a peek on Amazon.com for reviews of Kramer’s book, and you will find, as one reviewer observes:
    “Among the firsts covered are such things as: The First Schools, The First Case of Juvenile Delinquency, The First “War of Nerves,” The First Bicameral Congress, First Historian, The First Case of Tax Reduction, The First Legal Precedent, The First Pharmacopoeia, The First Moral Ideals, The First Animal Fables, The First Literary Debates, The First Love Song, The First Library Catalogue, The First “Sick” Society, The First Long-Distance Champion, The First Sex Symbolism, Labor’s First Victory, and so on.”
    A later scholar of the Sumerian clay tablets, Zecharia Sitchin [also of Jewish heritage], has even more stunning–extra terrestrial– interpretations of these clay tablets. See his “Earth Chronicles” series.
    Returning to the discovery of America, there is a very readable & scholarly work, “They All Discovered America” [1961], by an American scholar, Charles Boland, with 19 chapters in the book, each dedicated to a different discoverer of America. There are Phoenicians, Romans, Chinese, Irish, Vikings, Portuguese, even Welsh–but no Muslims. True, Boland’s 1961 book did miss noting the probable Malian discoverers.
    And, BTW, I recognize that the Europeans method of colonization was bloody, often genocidal.
    But that’s exactly how the Muslim religion was primarily spread: By the sword!
    Let us welcome Muslims to the civilized discussion. Time to put away “swords,” & trade them in for “words.”

    ,

    • Steffen Larsen says

      Nov 29, 2014 at 6:22 pm

      FarmerMike,
      I am afraid I have to insist that most of this is all speculation and theory.
      The Olmec head is not one but several, going back to long before the rise of Islam. A connection to Africa is not accepted by modern scholars.

      The only pre-Columbian discovery generally accepted as likely is the one by Scandinavians around the year 1000, for which there is evidence in the shape of a small and short-lived settlement, not to mention Icelandic sagas.

      The rest is pseudo-history, sorry.

      • FarmerMike says

        Nov 30, 2014 at 5:52 am

        Stefan, I understand there are 17 heads that have been found. They look negroid in feature to me, and to many others. They are a bit of a puzzle.
        As to pre-Columbian discoveries, Boland, in his “They All Discovered America,” details several discoveries before the Scandinavians, most notably the Irish monk Brendan’s in the sixth century. His ship’s log, written & published in Latin, the international language of the day, & titled “Navagatio,” & was apparently one of the favorite books of all sea captains, including Columbus.
        There is even a small-craft contemporary American sailor who, taking his navigational fixes from the Navagatio, sailed in a small craft across the Atlantic & back, to prove the practicality of Brendan’s voyage. See Chapman’s “The Man Who Led Columbus to America.”
        The only connection I see in any of this to Islam is a negative one: If it hadn’t been for the hostility of Muslim-ruled countries, Europeans might not have discovered America when they did.
        Looking at the situation in today’s world, if we can manage to persuade Muslims to engage in honest, evidence-based conversations about what is true or practical, we might be able to avoid a global jihad-fueled armageddon.
        Promoting honest, evidence-based dialog also requires avoiding ad hominem attacks, as some on this blog (not you, Stefan) have resorted to.
        Our tools must be “evidence, reason & words.” Not “distortion, lies & swords.”
        Oh, BTW, is there anyone on this blog who has more information about the Piri Reis map?

        • Aardvark says

          Nov 30, 2014 at 6:50 am

          Search online for ‘1421 theory’.

          It may be that a Chinese fleet sailed around most of the pacific about that time (before Columbus) and produced maps that were later copied and picked up by Piri Reis.

    • Mirren10 says

      Nov 29, 2014 at 7:21 pm

      ”The clearest evidence comes in the form of a large sculpted stone head with Negroid features, found buried in the soil in a Central American jungle, known as the famous “Olmec Head.”.

      There is no known black African culture that produced colossal, naturalistic stone sculptures like the Olmec Heads.

      • Wellington says

        Nov 29, 2014 at 9:00 pm

        I fear, Mirren, that more and more loons, like FarmerMike, are beginning to post here at JW. Wolfgang is another example. He’s a 9/11 truther. Then there is Mac-101, who, in addtion to his way too cute “das” and “dats,” is also a conspiracy-thinking kind of guy (e.g., New World Order rot and the Warren Commission was a fix). Then you have someone like Don McKellar, who with regularity wants to insult Christians and other non-Muslim religious people for not understanding the wisdom of his atheism. Just about the last thing those who oppose what Islam intends for all the West need is fruitcakes aplenty opining about phantom realities or their pet peeves. Understand, I support their right to state what they want, but I wish they had the good sense to realize that shutting up many times about one’s opinions is an optimal way to build a large coalition. But they don’t understand this. Damn shame. Hope you and yours are doing well in this increasingly goofy world we live in.

        • Mirren10 says

          Nov 30, 2014 at 2:59 pm

          Hi, Wellington; that comment of mine which you’ve responded to, has disappeared.

          Marc, was it deleted ? If so, mind telling me why ?

        • Wellington says

          Nov 30, 2014 at 4:18 pm

          Mirren: I responded to your 7:21 P.M. comment of November 29th and I can view it now. Not sure what is going on but hope you and yours are doing well.

        • Mirren10 says

          Nov 30, 2014 at 4:40 pm

          ”Mirren: I responded to your 7:21 P.M. comment of November 29th and I can view it now.”

          Weird ! I can’t see it on my computer at all. 🙁

          Never mind.

          I hope you had a wonderful Thanksgiving, Wellington. Best to you and yours.

    • cs says

      Nov 29, 2014 at 7:54 pm

      Yes there is Barry Fell theories, and many others, America was in contact with several civilizations in the past, India, China, Tahitians, Romans visited as well, Phoenicians, Minoans, probably Egyptians, Hebrews, and also Islamists, they did not discover anything, the ones who made it public were the spanish, and America was visited regularly by Basque fisherman, who caught cod in New England.
      Also the Templars had been in America in the 13th century.
      There is quite a bit of evidence for each of this claims.
      Regarding the Olmec, it is likely the arrived with the Phoenicians in La Venta, but they may be part of the Anunnaki thing as Sitchin proposed as quoted above, I am a big fan of him, and read all his books btw.

    • Ayattollahowmany says

      Nov 29, 2014 at 9:38 pm

      REALLY? Polite conversation with an alien ‘culture’ that wants you DEAD?

      • mgoldberg says

        Nov 30, 2014 at 8:27 am

        That is always the cul de sac where the non muslims find themselves lost. The muslim politiely, informs the non muslim that it is Allah that wants all submitted, and politely informs them that they, as muslims simply have no choice- with a smile. They will gladly bring the fires of hell to any and all who disagree and this hell of hells is what muslms are supposed to bring to all the infidels if they imply anything that might cast aspersions upon THE prophet. The one who unlike all the other 54 prophets, who all had consistent messages, and who’s prophesy’s are recorded, had no prophecy, only repeats of what some of them said, and military conquest for his theology. There is no ‘dissent’. That is fitna.
        After the Jihadist accomplishes wiping out the infidel to hells created for all non muslims, then he can arrive at muslim heavens, which large bossomed girls, permanent flowing rivers of wine, virgins constantly recreated as virgins, for the pleasure of the Jihadist who erased non muslims who refused to accept Allah.
        Well…. I digress. The point however is that you are indeed properly incredulous at the concept of polite conversation with muslims. That has no real purpose for them. Indeed, as an example, after the oh so many slaughters- as the one in Boston last year, there was no 500,000 muslims march anywhere in the US, or anywhere, howling about the horrors of muslm slaughtering. There was immediately, the call to prevent islamophobia, as there is always the call the prevent any and all negative expressions about any and all events engaged in, endlessly now, and historically so, that might right call into question the exact meaning of ‘religion of submission’. That is not allowed. Ever. Unless some individual blithers on how those are not ‘real’ muslms.

    • voegelinian says

      Nov 30, 2014 at 4:30 pm

      “Let us welcome Muslims to the civilized discussion. Time to put away “swords,” & trade them in for “words.” ”

      The ball is in there court. It must be a UNILATERAL event. Muslims must bend over backwards to make the first move, and subsequent shows of good faith that would undo all the monstrous, grotesquely ghoulish mountain of flaming excrement they have been fomenting for years, decades, motherfucking centuries. In the meantime, we have a right, and an obligation, to round them all up and deport them to protect our societies from them.

      • voegelinian says

        Nov 30, 2014 at 4:30 pm

        in their* court

    • gravenimage says

      Dec 1, 2014 at 9:16 pm

      FarmerMike wrote:

      There is much to ridicule and oppose about Islamic religion & history. But not everything.
      I think we should welcome them to a civilized conversation about discoveries & inventions. And we should also expect civil standards of behavior. Argue, fine. But let it be evidence-based & polite. We, too, should abide by these same standards.
      ……………………………………..

      The whole point is that Muslims are *not* abiding by these standards. The discoveries of Eratosthenes’ discoveries—which predate this claim by 800 years—are well documented, but are ignored by this “science minister”.

      These false claims are nothing but Muslim supremacism.

      More:

      There is clear evidence that Africans, who may have been Muslims, visited the Americas before Columbus. Mali seems the most likely origin. See “They Came Before Columbus” by Van Sertima.
      ……………………………………..

      There is no “clear evidence”. The most compelling idea is that some have thought that sculpted Olmec heads appear to have somewhat negroid features.

      On the other side, there is no record of Malian trans-oceanic travel—not even in the form of myth or lore. And there is no indication that they ever had developed craft that could have withstood a trans-Atlantic voyage. There is, in fact, no tradition there of long ocean voyages at all.

      The fact that Mali is landlocked makes this even less likely—but there is no evidence of any such voyages from any region of the West coast of Africa, either.

      And notice he doesn’t say that Ivan van Sertima’s spurious claims were never taken seriously by scholars in the fields of history or archeology.

      This is the same sort of 1970s Afrocentricism that claimed that Cleopatra, who was Ptolemaic Greek, was actually sub-Saharan Black African.

      Moreover, though, even if we *were* to take his shoddy work seriously, his claim is that Africans made their way to America in the 10th century BC—in which case, this *certainly* would not lend credence to this being a Muslim discovery at all.

      More:

      Then there is also the “Piri Reis map” dated some 20 years AFTER Columbus’s discovery. However, the Piri Reis map, so-called after the name of a Turkish Admiral who had re-drawn a single map from a collection of maps, showing very accurately the east coast of South America, as well as Antarctica.
      Such accurate information could not have been gathered in a day, nor perhaps in a few years, even. Which sindicates that there was considerable activity & familiarity w/ the South Atlantic sea coasts. Which was probably obtained by sailing ships from coast to coast. There is much other evidence in this scholarly work, too.
      ……………………………………..

      The idea that the Piri Reis map is proof of Muslim pre-Columbian discovery of the Americas is *just bizarre*—this, from the inscription on the map itself:

      “From eight Jaferyas of that kind and one Arabic map of Hind [India], and from four newly drawn Portuguese maps which show the countries of Sind [now in modern day Pakistan], Hind and Çin [China] geometrically drawn, and also from a map drawn by Qulūnbū [Columbus] in the western region, I have extracted it…”

      You can see that the maps of the New World came from European sources. The only specific Arab source is for India. There is no indication—nor even claim—by contemporary Muslims that this represents any sort of early Muslim exploration of the Americas.

      More:

      Looking farther back in time, we recognize that a lot of civilization owes its beginning to ancient Sumeria, circa 4000 to 3000BCE, well before Islam came into being…
      ……………………………………..

      What is the point of this? No Western historians, scientists, or archeologists dispute the contributions of Sumer to early civilization—but this has nothing whatsoever to do with islam.

      More:

      And, BTW, I recognize that the Europeans method of colonization was bloody, often genocidal.
      But that’s exactly how the Muslim religion was primarily spread: By the sword!
      Let us welcome Muslims to the civilized discussion. Time to put away “swords,” & trade them in for “words.”
      ……………………………………..

      Pointless Tu Quoque. And from this, one might assume that this violence—allegedly practiced equally by ravening Muslims and by the West—was a thing of the past.

      But “Farmer Mike” is completely ignoring the violence and genocide practiced by Muslims today in so many parts of the world against Infidels—in China, in Pakistan, in Iraq, in Syria, in the Islamic State, in the “Palestinian” territories, in Yemen, in Somalia, in Sudan, and, yes, in Mali.

      Mali is, in fact, much better known for murderous violence against Infidels than for putative voyages of discovery—whatever Farmer Mike hopes to posit to the contrary.

  33. pineapplefish says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 7:12 pm

    (A) Eratosthenes was not a MudSlime
    (B) He was GREEK
    (C) He lived circa 200 BC
    (D) MoHamMad started worsiping the demon Allah in 620 AD

    Eratosthenes will always be remembered for the calculation of the Earth’s circumference circa 240 BC, using trigonometry and knowledge of the angle of elevation of the Sun at noon in Alexandria and Syene (now Aswan, Egypt). The calculation is based on the assumption that the Earth is spherical and that the Sun is so far away that its rays can be taken as parallel.
    Details of his method he published in a work On the measurement of the Earth which unfortunately was lost. We know indirectly about his method from other authors.
    http://www.juliantrubin.com/bigten/eratosthenes.html

  34. Jack HOLAN says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 7:33 pm

    Livingengine thanks for the wealth of information that you provided. Normally verifiable knowledge such as this should put somone like this “scientist” in his place but we both know it won’t in the end. If all else fails you’ll hear the line that these are books written by Westerners and not Muslims-it’s made up. Yes Erdogan is bringing out the Chief “Scientist” We’ve had Erdogans view regarding the discovery of America and his position on the duty and level of women in society all in a period of 10 days. Watch the UN will probably nominate Tukey to head the Women’s Rights Committee this year at the UN. After all Erdogan stated the woman belongs at home and have children. She holds a high respect place in society as written in the Quran. It doesn’t get better than this in the movies.

  35. profitsbeard says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 7:34 pm

    And non-Muslims discovered that Islam is a Death Cult.

    Which vitiates anything else Islam may have done on the positive side of the scale.

    (Most of which are lies or exaggerations or distortions of historical facts, from “Arabic numerals”- originally imported from India- to this bogus claim about the shape of the Earth, which was known by the Greeks long before Mohammad was ever whelped.)

    The turkey spouting this idiocy should search: “Eratosthenes shadow obelisk circumference Earth”.

    Perhaps he meant “Muslims invented plagiarism”. (SEE: The Koran.)

    • Aardvark says

      Nov 30, 2014 at 6:55 am

      “Perhaps he meant “Muslims invented plagiarism”. (SEE: The Koran.)”

      Laughed out loud at that one! So true!

  36. John Waller says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 9:16 pm

    One point, Columbus did not set out to prove the world is round. Previous commenters have already pointed out that most Europeans, especially sailors, knew the Earth was round. The debate that Columbus set to settle was the distance from Europe to China. The Europeans believed the distance was too far with the ships they had. Columbus believed the distance was shorter and therefore doable. As it turned out he was nearly wrong. A few miles further, and his ships would not have survived.

  37. Ayattollahowmany says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 9:35 pm

    Muslims also discovered–

    1- Numerical Contradictions:

    2- Creation of the Heaven and Earth

    3- Sun-set and Sun-rise

    4- A Resting Place For Sun!?

    5- Why Allah Created Stars!

    6- Is Sky/Heaven A ROOF or Canopy Over the Earth?

    7- Does Sun Rotate Around the Earth?

    8- Does Earth Spread Out Like Carpet (flat)

    9- Is Man Created From Clotted Blood?

    10- Is Religion Compulsive or is it not?

  38. Ayattollahowmany says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 9:44 pm

    Lived in Turkey for a couple of years. Eventually left when I could not cope with muslim idiocy; intelligent educated professionals actually believing the ‘science’ and ‘miracles’ in the koran. How do they do this? I don’t know- except they always refused to discuss these things rationally.

    Depressing, and threatening, too. Living in fear of who might be overhearing conversations…
    Beautiful country- ugly, vicious “religion”

  39. Maria says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 10:33 pm

    Even TODAY Muslim scientists are debating if the earth is flat or not of that sun revolves around the earth;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqv0iuiBta8

  40. abad says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 11:25 pm

    Next up from Erdogan:

    “Muslims were the first ones to send a man to the moon.”

    LOL

    • ECAW says

      Nov 30, 2014 at 4:59 am

      Funny you shouldmention that:

      http://iotwreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/muslims-on-the-moon-first-.jpg

  41. pumbar says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 11:39 pm

    Museum of Islamic Science and Technology in Istanbul;

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/gardeningpicturegalleries/8926077/Shed-love-a-selection-of-images-of-readers-sheds-and-sheds-of-the-famous.html?image=1

    • Irony Man says

      Nov 30, 2014 at 1:51 pm

      Hahaha!

      Here’s the main testing phase on the Islamic Space Program.

      http://i.imgur.com/gsUM0AZ.jpg

  42. Salah says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 11:58 pm

    “Muslims discovered the earth is round”

    I have no doubt that some Muslims are genuises each in their domain; there are plenty of good Muslim doctors, scientists, etc. But honestly, I don’t care about individual Muslims, all I care about is Islam and the founder of Islam.

    Muhammad said that the sun sets in a muddy pool and that one day, it will rise in the West.
    Do we need more proof that Islam belongs to the dustbin of history?

    http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2013/06/islamic-astronomy.html

  43. njdon says

    Nov 29, 2014 at 11:59 pm

    Muslims did discover that the world is round but, unfortunately. that was just last week.

  44. pineapplefish56 says

    Nov 30, 2014 at 12:10 am

    Turkey’s science minister: Muslims discovered the earth is round…. YESTERDAY!

  45. Tommy Guns says

    Nov 30, 2014 at 1:36 am

    The world body of Western scientists and historians, has determined that the Islamic Museum of Science and Technology, is the worlds smallest museum, being no larger than an outhouse but, containing more shit !!!!!! Who knew??!?

  46. james hazan says

    Nov 30, 2014 at 2:43 am

    I was under the impression it was Popoff from Novgorod that discovered a round world,In any case they were all wrong,we all know the world is square

  47. Aton says

    Nov 30, 2014 at 4:24 am

    Here is a paper on Academia.edu, that demonstrates that all ‘Islamic Inventions’ were actually Egyptian, Greek and Roman.
    https://www.academia.edu/8749355/Islamic_Inventions_–_were_Roman_and_Greek_

    There is a travelling show going around, highlighting all the advances of Islam, but not one thing it mentions is actually Islamic.

    Aton

  48. John Collignon says

    Nov 30, 2014 at 4:52 am

    The Bible, if read, provides the idea of a circular earth in its language. The arc of the earth. Read it, its in there. But, the Bible isn’t about the “sciences”, but simply and beautifully expounded Truth.

  49. Aton says

    Nov 30, 2014 at 4:57 am

    Heliocentric?

    Not only was the spherical Earth and Heliocentric system known about in Greece, but so too was it in Judaea.

    It is a little known fact that Nazarene Judaism followed some very ancient Greco-Egyptian wisdom. Which is why the Nazarene Jews built this zodiac in Tiberias, on the Sea of Galilee. Note that Helios (the Sun) hold a blue-green spherical Earth in his (gravitational) grasp. Yes, the complete motion and imagery of the earth was known about in this era.

    http://s1053.photobucket.com/user/locuster/media/Hamat-zodiac2_zps062d0e84.jpg.html

    Aton

  50. Charlie Griffith says

    Nov 30, 2014 at 5:11 am

    Everybody should read or re-read, “What Went Wrong?” by Bernard Lewis.

    “What Went Wrong?: Western Impact and Middle Eastern ResponseDec 12, 2001
    by Bernard Lewis” is a starter-paste here.

    One theme is that with all of the agit-prop [Agitation and Propaganda] by the Muslims about their invention of al-gebra and all else that they claim to have contributed to the World, “What happened after that?”

    Why the disastrous decline into what the Muslims have wrought today?

    One of my pet observations is the parallel between Soviet strategy and tactics and those of the Muslims. Does anyone remember the Soviet claims of “firsts” in medicine and aviation? Agitation and Propaganda.

    [not to be too off-topic and mention subversive “cells”. Think of muslim madrassas and mosques.]

    • gravenimage says

      Dec 1, 2014 at 9:36 pm

      Charlie, to the extent that Islam had a “golden age” at all—much exaggerated, in any case—it was actually the death throes of the Persian, north Indian, Byzantine, and Roman cultures that they conquered.

      The dhimmis struggled on for a while before they were completely crushed by the Muslim barbarians.

      I’ve long said—grimly—that if Mahoundians do succeed in conquering the free West, the straggling tail-end of Western achievement will be characterized as a new “Islamic golden age” before is is entirely snuffed out.

  51. ApolloSpeaks says

    Nov 30, 2014 at 8:11 am

    HAD ISLAM DEFEATED CHARLES MARTEL AMERICA WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN DISCOVERED

    Not only is the treacherous Recep Erdogan an Islamist liar for Islam (Moslems discovered America) but if his imperialist faith had defeated Charles Martel at Tours 1300 years ago this great country would never have been discovered. My argument is as follows:

    For if Martel had lost Tours Islam and the Koran (with its primitive idea of a FLAT EARTH) would have conquered all of Christian Europe trapping and freezing it in the Dark Middle Ages until this very day-where much of the poor, backward, miserable Moslem world remain scarcely about to evolve.

    Think about it. If Martel’s Christian army hadn’t prevailed there would have been no universities (a Medieval Christian invention) spreading knowledge and learning throughout Europe (including the ancient Greek belief-as old as Pythagorus-in the Earth’s sphericity). Moreover, the absence of a university system would have made the intellectual and creative explosion of the Italian Renaissance impossible and the appearance of one of its greatest and bravest men: Christopher Columbus-who caught on fire with the theory of the Earth’s sphericity, was confident it was the truth, and risking life and limb set out to prove it by voyaging West to find a new route to India.

    In other words, no defeat of Islam at Tours, no Christopher Columbus, no Age of Exploration, no discovery of America, no Modern World. If jihadists had conquered Europe it would have stayed miserably stuck in the primitive, barbarous, mental and cultural world of stagnant, oppressive 8th century Islam; and those who challenged the Koran’s divinely revealed view of planet Earth’s flatness (still insanely believed by Islamic scholars, clerics and millions of Moslems) chanced being punished or killed for the crime of atheism.

    http://www.apollospeaks.com

    • ApolloSpeaks says

      Nov 30, 2014 at 8:15 am

      CORRECTION: ….scarcely evolving.

    • Atonr says

      Nov 30, 2014 at 1:16 pm

      Not just Charles Martel.

      The primary hero, who ejected the Muslims from Provence in France, was Guillaume the Gellone, who was the first Guillaume or William of Orange (his independent city-state, was Orange, in France).

      This royal family was later ejected from Orange by Louis XIV, and their homeland then became Holland. See “Mary Magdalene, Princess of Provence”.

      Aton

    • Aton says

      Nov 30, 2014 at 1:22 pm

      .
      And before Charles Martel, we have Guillaume de Gellone to thank – back in the 8th century AD. Guillaume is otherwise known as Guillaume or William of Orange (his home city was Orange in France), and he chased the Muslims out of France in the 8th century.

      The Princes of Orange were finally evicted from Orange by Loius XIV, and then became the princes of Holland. See “Mary Mag, Princess of Provence”.

      Aton

    • aton says

      Nov 30, 2014 at 1:27 pm

      Sorry, I presume you mean the 8th century Charles Martel.

      In which case William of Orange-Gellone and Charles Martel were 8th century contemporaries.

      Aton

  52. Tim says

    Nov 30, 2014 at 9:50 am

    Folks are confusing Eratosthenes with Aristarchus of Samos. It was Aristarchus who was the first to propose the heliocentric concept. Copernicus acknowledged Aristarchus in the former’s revolutionary work.

    • gravenimage says

      Dec 1, 2014 at 10:04 pm

      Tim wrote:

      Folks are confusing Eratosthenes with Aristarchus of Samos. It was Aristarchus who was the first to propose the heliocentric concept. Copernicus acknowledged Aristarchus in the former’s revolutionary work.
      ………………………………

      I don’t believe those citing Eratosthenes are in error, Tim. Certainly, Aristarchus of Samos was the first to put forward the revolutionary concept of the earth orbiting the sun. The idea of the earth’s being round had been an idea for some time in Greek philosophy, but it was Eratosthenes who first calculated the earth’s circumference based on scientific data. These calculations, in turn—which just slightly underestimated the distance—were extremely influential in Columbus’ idea that circumnavigation of the globe was indeed possible.

      In any case, both these brilliant Greeks much predated Islam, and the Western explorers who followed were all Infidels, as well.

  53. ApolloSpeaks says

    Nov 30, 2014 at 10:53 am

    MOHAMMED: HISTORY’S FIRST ASTRONAUT

    What’s next on this Islamist agenda of false discoveries and scientific lies? Mohammed, history’s first astronaut, beat the United States to the Moon by 1400 years. And was the first human being to set foot on Mars. This was done on the heavenly leg of his miraculous night journey to Jerusalem when he flew up to the heavens on the back of a winged horse.

    http://www.apollospeaks.com

  54. sundancekid says

    Nov 30, 2014 at 1:34 pm

    Here is the inevitable question; If the koran is so scientifically advanced, full of knowledge, easy to understand and perfect, why do muslims try to interpret and apologize for it? Since the Age of Enlightenment in the west (and the beginning of the dark ages for islam), they have only three science Noble Price Lariats in the world. If the koran has all the answers, why haven’t we been to the moon in the 1800’s already? Where are the cures for cancer? Aids? Why haven’t we figured out the Theories of the Atom, Plate Tectonics, and Genetics, germs causing diseases, to name a handful, centuries ago?
    Why, most of the islamic countries are so backward technologically, sociologically and are not living in a decent standard of living?
    ALL REPORTS from the U.N., The World Health Organization and other international bodies concerned with under-developed countries show how the MAJORITY OF THE MOST UNDER DEVELOPED COUNTRIES(!) ARE THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES.

    Quoting a muslim sites as citations, which is what most poor muslims do, is just as bad as quoting wikipedia. The fact is, the koran is man made because the man who allegedly wrote it was a drug smoking illiterate pedophile. Most likely he was hallucinating and his first wife wrote it for him. It is very easy to try to interpret what’s written in the koran as evidence to scientific fact. The koran is supposed to be so perfect that anyone can understand it. Well it’s not! The fact that all muslim countries are backwards it is because of the koran. The majority of the population is illiterate and uneducated and they believe all the drivel their imams tell them. If there was no koran and no islam they might be at least in the status of developing countries. It is quite an abysmal state of affairs that there are no notable contributions to the betterment of humanity from muslims, there was a little period in time when the muslims where in the forefront of scientific discoveries. Why aren’t they now? we could have flown to the moon centuries ago with rockets with arabic letters on them. It’s when religious zeal took over purely for control over people. Miracles are a myth education, knowledge and science are what make our world a better place.
    Quran is definitely not a book of scientific knowledge. Muslims insist that the koran has ALL the scientific answers which it obviously does not. Muslims slid into the dark ages in the 13-14th centuries and never came out of it till now. The events in the Middle east are a point in case. All the islamic countries are on the lowest places in social services, health, education human rights just to name a few. Trying to “defend” the Koran is funny, it is steeped with superstition and false information. Most of it was plagiarized from other scriptures and any scientific tidbit there if any, was taken from known data available at the time either from Greek, Hindu or jewish knowledge. It’s time for all religions to fade into history as bad dreams.

  55. Uncle Vladdi says

    Nov 30, 2014 at 6:22 pm

    That’s funny, because according to Ali Sina, the Qur’an says the earth is FLAT – invariably and repetitively, multiple times LOL!

    http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/genesis.htm

    😉

  56. Gerald says

    Nov 30, 2014 at 6:57 pm

    Eratosthenes Calculated the Earth’s Circumference in 240 B.C. This is 800 years before muhammad invented islam(words are intentionally not capitalized). Praise be to good Lord that muslim sub-humans have ministers like Minister Fikri Işık to head Turkey’s Science, Industry and Technology Dept.
    Here is the Link that explains how Eratosthenes worked out the Earth’s circumference.
    http://www.windows2universe.org/citizen_science/myw/w2u_eratosthenes_calc_earth_size.html

    • Falsafa says

      Dec 1, 2014 at 3:54 am

      “…muslim subhumans…”

      tragic telling of our times to what depths of indecency the islamophobe crowd has sunk to!

      • Bill Richards says

        Dec 1, 2014 at 5:40 am

        Falsafa, a “phobia” is an IRRATIONAL FEAR of something. Please explain in detail how one can be an islamophobe when the koran contains over 100 verses exhorting muslimes to kill all Jews and “infidels” and/or impose jizyah on us. Have a look at how the various sects of islam are so willing to KILL anyone who disagrees with a particular sect!!!!!!!!!!!

        • Falsafa says

          Dec 1, 2014 at 8:17 am

          I am not qualified to interpret scripture on my own, and try to benefit from qualified scholars. A link to a talk from a Scholar whom I highly respect is below where you can find the answers to your questions.

          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hJo4B-yaxfk

          The crisis amongst muslims today is the lack of qualified scholars, providing guidance and spiritual leadership (not political) to help them overcome the problems they face especially in the trouble spots of the world where social progress and development has been frozen in time due to colonialism and the dictatorial rule in the post colonial era. Amidst the chaos we are witnessing in the post colonial era, religion unfortunately is subverted as a means to exert power and a rallying cry amongst fanatics, warlords with thirst for political power to garner support amongst the populations in these trouble spots. What we are witnessing are civil wars where any and all means are used to further political agendas of the different factions and religion is used (tragically) as a tool for their political purposes and it is a very powerful one at that…can there be another human belief system likely to arouse such energy and passion as spirituality/religion? unlikely….especially when the poor folk in these countries ruled by dictators have nothing to loose.

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 1, 2014 at 6:47 pm

          More from Falsafa:

          I am not qualified to interpret scripture on my own, and try to benefit from qualified scholars. A link to a talk from a Scholar whom I highly respect is below where you can find the answers to your questions.
          …………………………….

          Falsafa means that he is not allowed to think on his own. This is a core part of Islam—its slaves are not supposed to reason.

          The “scholar” in question here would be Shaykh Hamza Yusuf. He is plausibly “moderate” to those not paying much attention, as he opposes ISIS and Boko Haram. But he is a fan of Al-Qaida targeting American military and governmental facilities, *including embassies*. He is also, like all pious Muslims, an apologist for violent pedophilia:

          “US Muslim Cleric Who Defended Raping 9-Year-Old Condemns Boko Haram”

          http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgreenfield/us-muslim-cleric-who-defended-raping-9-year-old-condemns-boko-haram/

          More:

          The crisis amongst muslims today is the lack of qualified scholars, providing guidance and spiritual leadership (not political) to help them overcome the problems they face especially in the trouble spots of the world where social progress and development has been frozen in time due to colonialism…
          …………………………….

          What rot. Why would Muslim societies be “frozen in time” by exposure to more civilized cultures? Instead, it is the fell influence of static, chaotic, and violent Islam that has led to this frozen state. The more Islamic a state is, the more static it is—the proof is in states like Afghanistan, Yemen, and Somalia, that are almost 100% Muslim and are ruined by Shari’ah law.

          And why would Islam suffer from a lack of scholars? It’s been around for almost 1400 years now, and certainly pious Muslims seem to have a very clear understanding of their vile creed—hence the sanguinary horror of so much of Dar-al-Islam.

          More:

          Amidst the chaos we are witnessing in the post colonial era, religion unfortunately is subverted as a means to exert power and a rallying cry amongst fanatics, warlords with thirst for political power to garner support amongst the populations in these trouble spots. What we are witnessing are civil wars where any and all means are used to further political agendas of the different factions and religion is used (tragically) as a tool for their political purposes and it is a very powerful one at that…can there be another human belief system likely to arouse such energy and passion as spirituality/religion? unlikely….especially when the poor folk in these countries ruled by dictators have nothing to loose (sic).
          …………………………….

          What rot—this is all Islam has *ever* been used for, dating back to the days of the bloody “Prophet”. Islam’s only (comparatively) peaceful periods have been when Islam has been suppressed to a greater or lesser extent.

          And the idea that people have to turn to violent Islam when faced with dictatorships if simply ludicrous. People have opposed tyranny with democratic ideals before—but devout Mohammedans are not going to this, because the consider civilized democracy to be “un-Islamic”.

          And what are pious Muslims apt to replace those dictators with? It is obvious: they replace comparatively benign authoritarian states with sanguinary horrors like the Islamic State.

          In fact, Muslims main problem with such dictators is not the lack of freedom—but the fact that these strongmen and not violent and oppressive *enough* to be truly Islamic. *Ugh*.

        • Falsafa says

          Dec 1, 2014 at 8:26 pm

          “US Muslim Cleric Who Defended Raping 9-Year-Old Condemns Boko Haram”

          here is a 6 minute excerpt that Sheikh Hamza Yusuf gave on the topic of Hz. Aisha which earned him this twisted article from the bastion of objective journalism…”frontpagemag” Listen and learn and perhaps you folks with anti Islamic agendas will one day be shamed into dropping your slander with your spinned version of history 14 centuries ago.

          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FM4IuDVFL3s

          “—the proof is in states like Afghanistan, Yemen, and Somalia, that are almost 100% Muslim and are ruined by Shari’ah law.” ….these are failed states which have been trampled with colonialism and occupation in modern times….desperation leads to extremism…same applies to Syria, Iraq, Libya…all countries with no experience in grass roots social reform movements and democracy. If you are going to go after muslim majority countries then pick on ones your own size > Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia…all having had democratic experience with Turkey’s being the oldest since 1923 and all economic powerhouses and likely to remain so.

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 2, 2014 at 4:08 pm

          More from the repellent Falsafa:

          “US Muslim Cleric Who Defended Raping 9-Year-Old Condemns Boko Haram”

          here is a 6 minute excerpt that Sheikh Hamza Yusuf gave on the topic of Hz. Aisha which earned him this twisted article from the bastion of objective journalism…”frontpagemag” Listen and learn and perhaps you folks with anti Islamic agendas will one day be shamed into dropping your slander with your spinned version of history 14 centuries ago.

          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FM4IuDVFL3s
          ……………………………………….

          This load of apologia just confirms what FrontPage Magazine has to say. While Hamza Yusef natters on at first about how marrying small children was not unusual for the time, he then completely contradicts himself by positing the idea that a nine-year-old child is actually “an adult”.

          The fact is, raping pre-pubescent children has *never* been the norm for any even vaguely healthy society—no matter how long ago.

          Besides, citing what was normative for the time does not work in the case of the “Prophet”—this is the “ideal man” of Islam, one whose actions are to be emulated for all time. And this is not just theoretical—little girls are being raped all over Dar-al-Islam *exactly* on the model of the foul Muhammed—and this is *happening today*, because that Muslim ideal cannot change.

          Moreover, it is notable that Jesus—the Christian Jesus, not the appalling Muslim “Isa”—also lived during a brutal period. Yet quite unlike Muhammed, he didn’t take slaves, raid caravans, rape women, or abuse little girls.

          And note that Falsafa considers opposing the rape of nine-year-old children to be “anti-Islamic”. I suppose this means that he, like so many Muslims, consider pedophilia to be a core part of his vile creed. *Appalling*.

          More:

          “—the proof is in states like Afghanistan, Yemen, and Somalia, that are almost 100% Muslim and are ruined by Shari’ah law.” ….these are failed states which have been trampled with colonialism and occupation in modern times….desperation leads to extremism…same applies to Syria, Iraq, Libya…all countries with no experience in grass roots social reform movements and democracy.
          ……………………………………….

          Every Islamic state is a failed state. Shari’ah law is inherently barbaric.

          And the larger the percentage of Muslim population, the more backward, chaotic, and violent the country. This is no accident.

          More:

          If you are going to go after muslim majority countries then pick on ones your own size > Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia…all having had democratic experience with Turkey’s being the oldest since 1923 and all economic powerhouses and likely to remain so.
          ……………………………………….

          All of these countries have been warped by Islam. Turkey has only succeeded to the extent that it has because Attatürk *suppressed* Islam there. But that is changing fast as Erdogan Islamizes the country.

          Malaysia and Indonesia are marginally more civilized due to large, economically active Infidel populations.

          But even these “moderate” Muslim states are anything but—authoritarian and oppressive to non-Muslims. All one need do is go back through the archives here at Jihad Watch to see that this is so.

          Falsafa’s native Turkey had slaughtered most of its Christian and Jewish population a hundred years ago, but it still has sporadic violence against the pitiful remnant of survivors.

          Also, notice that he considers condemning the sanguinary horror of Shari’ah in smaller nations to be “picking” on them—while at the same time condoning child rape.

          What bizarre, twisted “morality” pious Muslims exhibit. *Ugh*.

      • Petey says

        Dec 1, 2014 at 1:01 pm

        well if it makes you feel any better, we haven’t sunk to the level of the following yet; flying planes into skyscrapers, blowing up trains, placing bombs in our underwear, killing our own daughters, drowning american Jews in wheelchairs, kidnapping schoolgirls, hanging gays,chopping off heads, eating peoples hearts after killing them, lying, endless rioting, claiming other peoples homelands. We don’t teach our kids to hate nor do we want them to grow up and die. We don’t treat our wives like property. And we certainly don’t take credit for other peoples achievements, nor do we twist history. we don’t fire rockets at schools, and when we go to war we don’t hide behind our wife and kids. We also don’t shove bombs up our asses and oh yes, blaming our problems on colonialism the Yanks or the evil jooooos! Yes we have sunk low haven’t we? so are you a musloid or leftard drone?

      • pineapplefish says

        Dec 1, 2014 at 4:51 pm

        “Islamophobia” gets all the attention, but it’s “Infidelophobia” that quietly racks up over 10,000 dead bodies each year. But Islamophiliacs always get a ‘pass’, while we attempt to instruct the Islamo-ignorant.
        What’s worse? To be falsely labeled an Islamophobe or to actually be an Islamophile – pandering to and promoting an ideology of hate, misogyny and violence?

        “In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man.
        Support Israel. Defeat jihad.” Oppose Sharia and Halal, Defeat jihad.

        Islamophobe (is-slahm-o-fohb) – A non-Moslem who knows more of the TRUTH about Islam than they are “supposed” to know about Islam.

        Islamophobia is a fear of losing life or liberty to Islamic rule merely because the laws, “sacred” texts, and traditional practices of Islam, demand the submission of culture, politics, religion and all social expression. It tends to afflict those most familiar with the religion while sparing the more gullible.

        Unlike Infidelophobia (Quranically-inspired hatred for non-Moslems), Islamophobia doesn’t involve dead bodies, but rather bruised Moslem feelings, which – according to the teachings of the faith – are far more important than the lives of infidels.

        In Muhammad’s day, Islamophobia was treated with a practice known as beheading. Since this is now usually impractical outside of the Moslem world, the condition is best addressed by means of prevention. Such preventive measures include willful ignorance (best associated with a strong dose of Taqiyya Deception).

        The fact is that when Islam checks in, a lot of folks wind up checking out… permanently.
        Therefore Islamophobes are a pretty broad group.

        “Islamophobes” include:
        Hindus, Christians, and Jews who don’t want to be forced into a political system that treats them as third-class citizens.
        Atheists who want the freedom to live openly and challenge religious orthodoxy in the public sphere.
        Women who don’t want to be draped in black bags.
        Heterosexual males who prefer not to see women draped in black bags.
        Drinkers.
        Artists.
        Musicians.
        Historians who don’t want to see priceless manuscripts and books burned just because they disagree with the Quran.
        Homosexuals who don’t want to be beaten to death, or hung.
        Anyone else who believes that consenting adults should not be killed or tortured over sexual practices.
        Dog lovers.
        Animal Rights activists and anyone else who is opposed to the cruel and unethical treatment of animals.
        Mothers who don’t want their daughters killed over a man’s “honor.”
        Females who want to keep their clitoris intact.
        Intellectuals who value freedom of conscience and public dissent.
        Anyone believing that the value of a person’s life is not determined by their religious beliefs.
        Feminists who believe that women should not be made subordinate to men by a religion which openly insists that females are the intellectual and legal inferior of males.
        Anyone else who objects to a religion in which a woman’s identity is defined by her relationship to a man.
        Liberals who don’t believe that culture and moral values should be established by a state-sponsored religion.
        Conservatives who believe in preserving the Western heritage responsible for the civil freedom, political liberty and economic success which has attracted the flood of immigrants from Moslem nations, where such values are conspicuously lacking.
        Moslems who would like the freedom to leave Islam.

        And many more…
        http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Islamophobia.htm

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 1, 2014 at 6:51 pm

          Good posts, Petey and Pineapplefish.

      • gravenimage says

        Dec 1, 2014 at 6:08 pm

        Notice that falsafa does not address Gerald’s point about the discoveries of Eratosthenes—because he can’t.

        Instead, he just starts screaming “Islamophobia”. How pathetic.

        • Falsafa says

          Dec 1, 2014 at 8:42 pm

          “Notice that falsafa does not address Gerald’s point about the discoveries of Eratosthenes—because he can’t.”

          my point was not to ensure who should get the credit for the scientific discovery…frankly I don’t really care about that. My point was to address the sheer gutter talk, slander and insults that is directed against those of a particular faith (those prescribing to the Islamic faith to be precise) are subjected to by some overly zealous and passionate folks defending their anti-Islamic agenda. Whilst I respect any view and argument brought forward to discuss and debate even if its against Islam or any other belief system – certain standards and decency should be upheld. Otherwise these forums become nothing more than a place for people to vent their frustrations which is not conducive to establishing dialogue and communication across different views and belief systems….in my view.

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 2, 2014 at 4:26 pm

          Falsafa wrote:

          My point was to address the sheer gutter talk, slander and insults that is directed against those of a particular faith (those prescribing to the Islamic faith to be precise) are subjected to by some overly zealous and passionate folks defending their anti-Islamic agenda. Whilst I respect any view and argument brought forward to discuss and debate even if its against Islam or any other belief system – certain standards and decency should be upheld.
          …………………………………….

          This is grimly hilarious. Right now, Falsafa’s violent coreligionists are raping Infidel women and children and selling them as sex slaves, blowing themselves up in crowded markets, “marrying” nine-year-old girls, and beheading journalists and aid workers—and he is complaining about a supposed lack of civility on the part of those opposing such horrors. Good God…

          Also note: in Islam, “slander” is not promulgating falsehoods, but just saying anything that Muslims do not want to have openly discussed—like the threat Islam presents to the world.

          More:

          Otherwise these forums become nothing more than a place for people to vent their frustrations which is not conducive to establishing dialogue and communication across different views and belief systems….in my view.
          …………………………………….

          Falsafa would have us believe that the purpose of Jihad Watch is to to establish a “dialogue” with the very people who are working to subjugate, enslave, and murder us—but he is wrong.

          We are well aware that the only reason adherents of this violent, supremacist ideology enter into “dialogue” with us is to whitewash their appalling creed and lull Infidels into a false sense of security. You see this all the time with “Interfaith Dialogue”.

          Instead, the purpose of Jihad Watch is to educate Infidels about the Jihad threat—of glib apologists like Falsafa as well as wild-eyed, homicidal Jihadists.

        • Falsafa says

          Dec 3, 2014 at 2:26 pm

          gravenimage states:

          “We are well aware that the only reason adherents of this violent, supremacist ideology enter into “dialogue” with us is to whitewash their appalling creed and lull Infidels into a false sense of security. You see this all the time with “Interfaith Dialogue”. Instead, the purpose of Jihad Watch is to educate Infidels about the Jihad threat—of glib apologists like Falsafa as well as wild-eyed, homicidal Jihadists.”

          So what I am hearing is; these topics are are not up for discussion. These bigoted attacks on Islam are facts not assertions. We will not discuss or debate anything with apologists, muslims…etc. because ther are either naive, fools or are lying to deceive driven by their supremacist agenda….

          Thank you gravenimage, your statements support my long held view that folks that argue in clear black and white terms such as yourself against Islam…(either with us or against us view)…reflect the very essence of dogmatism. Good luck on your persistent efforts to “enlighten and warn” the general western population of the “dangers” of Islam and the “evil” from those who profess to the Islamic faith. Looks like you will need it!

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 3, 2014 at 7:37 pm

          More from Falsafa:

          So what I am hearing is; these topics are are not up for discussion. These bigoted attacks on Islam are facts not assertions. We will not discuss or debate anything with apologists, muslims…etc. because ther are either naive, fools or are lying to deceive driven by their supremacist agenda….

          Thank you gravenimage, your statements support my long held view that folks that argue in clear black and white terms such as yourself against Islam…(either with us or against us view)…reflect the very essence of dogmatism. Good luck on your persistent efforts to “enlighten and warn” the general western population of the “dangers” of Islam and the “evil” from those who profess to the Islamic faith…
          …………………………………………

          Falsafa is, of course, free to disprove the assertions that Islam is a brutal, supremacist, and conquering creed—but he will not, because he knows that it cannot be done.

          Certainly, this is not what Hamsa Yusef was doing—nor, of course, is that his goal.

          Falsafa considers openly telling the truth about Islam to be “dogmatism”—but dissembling and defending Muslim barbarism is perfectly Halal.

          And note his use of sneer quotes when referring to the “dangers” and “evil” of Islam—but then, as a pious Muslim, he believes that it is perfectly acceptable for Muslims to rape little girls and butcher Infidels—in fact, as they would have it, the only evil is in *resisting* such savagery.

        • Falsafa says

          Dec 4, 2014 at 4:05 pm

          gravenimage stated

          “… as a pious Muslim, he believes that it is perfectly acceptable for Muslims to rape little girls and butcher Infidels—in fact, as they would have it, the only evil is in *resisting* such savagery.”

          such an statement sickens me. how dare you! but I will not lower myself to your level. Readers can make up their own minds by listening to the references/links to Sheikh Hamza Yusuf’s talks/sermons I have provided above….without the comments of graven – spindoctor- image here. I have now clearly understood that your objective is not to reach out, understand, communicate but to spin tragic events during times war and upheavel the likes of which the middle east has never seen in order to justify an all out crusade against Islam and the practioners of Islam. Go for it…but be prepared to be opposed on this blog with arguments which will disspel your bigoted sweeping generalizations.

          I could have easily written here that instead of spending time obsessing, speculating, spinning 7th century sociological phenomena, that your time would be much better spent understanding and tackling the criminal activity perpertrated by the clergy of the catholic church and supporting its victims abused during their childhood, widespread, across the world and covered up by the senior ranks of the church in the 20th and 21st centuries, but I wouldn’t do that, because that would be stooping to your level.

        • gravenimage says

          Dec 5, 2014 at 5:55 pm

          Yet more from Falsafa:

          gravenimage stated

          “… as a pious Muslim, he believes that it is perfectly acceptable for Muslims to rape little girls and butcher Infidels—in fact, as they would have it, the only evil is in *resisting* such savagery.”

          such an statement sickens me. how dare you! but I will not lower myself to your level.
          ………………………….

          Note that Falsafa does not actually deny what I said—instead, he expresses outrage over my daring to have stated this. Recall what I said about “slander” in Islam—it need not involve an untruth, but merely be something that pious Muslims don’t want exposed. That is the case here.

          More:

          Readers can make up their own minds by listening to the references/links to Sheikh Hamza Yusuf’s talks/sermons I have provided above….without the comments of graven – spindoctor- image here.
          ………………………….

          I’m sure they can. His declaring a 9-year-old child an “adult” in order to condone her rape really can’t be “spun”—it is abundantly clear on its own.

          More:

          I have now clearly understood that your objective is not to reach out, understand, communicate…
          ………………………….

          Why would I want to “reach out” to someone who reveres a figure who condones child rape? *Ugh*. And I’m afraid I understand this barbarism all too well.

          More:

          …but to spin tragic events during times war and upheavel the likes of which the middle east has never seen in order to justify an all out crusade against Islam and the practioners of Islam.
          ………………………….

          Notice that he doesn’t actually condemn any of the viciousness of Islam—he just considers it an acceptable part of “tragic events” during “times war”. Remember that these “tragic events” include such horrors as Muslims cutting the throats of Jewish babies, enslaving Christian and Yazidi women, and beheading Journalists and aid workers.

          Moreover, the war didn’t just passively happen—this is Jihad waged by Muslims.

          And the idea that the Middle East has “never seen” such savagery could not be more false. In fact, much of the history of the Middle East over the past 1300 years has been very much like this—pious Muslim hordes conquering and abusing Infidels and imposing brutal Shari’ah law. He appears to think we know nothing of history.

          As for my justifying a crusade against Islam and its practitioners, this is utterly false—I have said no such thing.

          Really, this is nothing but projection—pretending that pointing out the violence of Islam is in itself a form of violence. One again, this puts us in mind of the concept of “slander” in Islam.

          More:

          Go for it…but be prepared to be opposed on this blog with arguments which will disspel your bigoted sweeping generalizations.
          ………………………….

          I’d welcome it. I wonder if Falsafa intends to counter my arguments any time soon?

          More:

          I could have easily written here that instead of spending time obsessing, speculating, spinning 7th century sociological phenomena, that your time would be much better spent understanding and tackling the criminal activity perpertrated by the clergy of the catholic church and supporting its victims abused during their childhood, widespread, across the world and covered up by the senior ranks of the church in the 20th and 21st centuries, but I wouldn’t do that, because that would be stooping to your level.
          ………………………….

          Desperate Tu Quoque. The fact is that, unlike in Islam, the abuse of children is actually illegal in the free West. In my city, the Oakland Diocese has actually done a great deal of work on this issue.

          Note that there is no such movement in Islam. And how could there be? That would be blasphemy, because it would counter the actions of Islam’s perfect man. There are victims accused of blasphemy rotting in Muslim prisons in much of Dar-al-Islam for just this offense, some under sentence of death.

          But, of course, few Muslims want to question such barbarism—even the figure Falsafa points to with such cowering “respect” openly condones child rape.

          And this is the usual argument—the idea that if there are still shortcomings in the free West that we should ignore—or even condone—the sanguinary horrors of Islam.

          What a grotesque inversion of morality. Very common from Muslims, though.

      • RHW says

        Dec 2, 2014 at 6:14 am

        Well, if muslims stop _being_ muslim, i.e. give up the vile death-cult known as ‘islam’, then they will stop being sub-human. Simple as that.

        • Falsafa says

          Dec 2, 2014 at 12:40 pm

          “Well, if muslims stop _being_ muslim, i.e. give up the vile death-cult known as ‘islam’, then they will stop being sub-human. Simple as that.”

          thanks for making it so clear to us….what must have we been thinking…discharge papers are in the works…we will do anything to stop you from calling us subhuman….thanks for knocking some sense into us /sarc off

        • Falsafa says

          Dec 4, 2014 at 4:15 pm

          One of the dowsides of such anti Islam blogs such as this is that it draws dockside bullies like Drakken over here. Threaten all you like dockside bully….just exposes the anti Islam movement for what it really is!

    • shosh7154 says

      Dec 4, 2014 at 10:51 am

      The reporters of the article apologize for the typo in the title of the article. The corrected title is:

      Turkey’s science minister: Muslims discovered the earth is round yesterday.

  57. Troy says

    Nov 30, 2014 at 9:04 pm

    Muslim scientists. That’s the funniest oxymoron I’ve ever heard

  58. Buraq says

    Dec 1, 2014 at 8:53 am

    Muslims discovered the Earth is round ……..?!!
    Yes, but that was only last week! :))

    Clowns!

  59. BC says

    Dec 2, 2014 at 3:53 am

    Pythagoras and or Eratosthanes around 250 BC and Claudius Ptolemy 2nd century AD discovered the earth is spherical.

  60. RHW says

    Dec 2, 2014 at 6:22 am

    Actually, this sort of thing beggars belief. Really.

    It’s like, when my children were 3 or 4 years old, and they’d stolen some chocolate cake. They’d have chocolate icing all around their mouths, and still be confidently asserting ‘No daddy. It wasn’t me!”.

    Muslims seem to me to have that infantile quality, that if they just lie confidently enough you won’t know they’re lying.

    [shakes head]

    Or is it ‘tell me I’m wrong and I’ll kill you. And when I’ve killed everyone who says I’m wrong, then what I said will be the truth’.

    I guess that’s another islamic ploy, isn’t it? Currently seen in action in Syria.

  61. scandi says

    Dec 2, 2014 at 5:27 pm

    “controversial claim that the American continent was “discovered by Muslim sailors” some 300 years before Christopher Columbus.” To bad its still only second place for “Muslims”, as Leif Eirikson was before them again (third place if you count the native americans who undoubtedly were first)

  62. Nana says

    Dec 2, 2014 at 5:59 pm

    A correction regarding a former post concerning Lars Gule’s “logic”, Gule is not a professor as media has reported him to be. He is a mere college dilettante.

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