Jihad Watch

Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

UK: Cameron will ban jihadis returning from Islamic State for two years

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Britain Prime MinisterThe ban can be renewed after the two-year period, but presumably if a jihadi waits out the two years as a quiet shopkeeper in Beirut or somewhere and then reapplies with a clean record, he will then be let back in — and then he can go back to jihad. The Cameron government is restricted by its own policy stances and lack of imagination from doing anything effective to defend Britain from jihadists; instead, there is this endless parade of ridiculous half-measures, combined with obsequious pandering to Islamic supremacists and official dissimulation about the nature and magnitude of the threat. This is not going to end well.

“David Cameron: I will ban British jihadists who fight for Isil in Syria and Iraq for two years,” by Steven Swinford, the Telegraph, November 13, 2014:

British jihadists who fight for Isil in Syria and Iraq will be barred from returning to this country for at least two years to prevent terror attacks, David Cameron has announced.

The Prime Minister has unveiled a raft of new anti-terror laws including powers to strip teenage jihadists of their passports and bar airlines from landing in the UK if they fail to provide passenger information.

Mr Cameron made the announcement in an address to the Australian Parliament in which he said Britain had to take action to deal with the threat posed by “foreign fighters planning attacks against our people”.

More than 500 Britons have travelled to Iraq and Syria to take up arms with Isil, and around half of them are thought to have returned to Britain. More than 200 people have been arrested for terror threats in the past year alone.

Under new “temporary exclusion orders”, British fighters in Syria and Iraq will be barred from returning to this country unless they submit to strict conditions.

The orders, which will be signed off from the Home Secretary, would be made on the basis of “reasonable suspicion of involvement in terrorist activity”. Suspected terrorists will have their passports cancelled and be put on a “no fly list” to prevent them from returning.

Those that repeatedly try to return to Britain will be interviewed by police and either face prosecution, tough restrictions on their movements or be forced to attend de-radicalisation programmes.

It is thought that officers could travel abroad to interview suspected jihadists and determine whether they are to be banned from returning to the UK.

They will be subjected to bail-like conditions and required to attend regular interviews with police and notify the authorities of any changes in their address or contact from extremists.

The orders will last for up to two years, and can be renewed again at the end of that period. Those that attempt to return to Britain in secret will face a five year jail term under a new criminal offence.

The measure is likely to prove controversial. When Mr Cameron first raised the prospect of barring British jihadists from returning to the UK in August Dominic Grieve, the former Attorney General, said it was likely to be a “non starter”.

He pointed out that withdrawing an individual’s passport would effectively make them “stateless”, a breach of UN laws.

The new powers, which have been drawn up with the help of the current Attorney General, attempt to avoid the issue by giving people the option of returning under tough conditions….

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Comments

  1. If the “deradicalisation programs” are taught by Muslims, it’s probably more likely that the returning jihadis will recruit THEM, instead of vice-versa.

    • Firstly, any Westernized Muslim is suspect by the Eastern ones. Secondly, any Western Muslims cooperating with Western spy agencies will have a bounty on his head and have difficulty returning to the Muslim community.

  2. I see the Telegraph couldn’t bring themselves to print the next two sentences of his speech. Not so the Guardian. The old ones are the best:

    “As we do so we must work with the overwhelming majority of Muslims who abhor the twisted narrative that has seduced some of our people. We must continue to celebrate Islam as a great world religion of peace.”

    • The affliction that has affected the West is strange indeed. On the one hand, it’s definitely a self-loathing and a lack of cultural confidence—but paradoxically it’s an almost inconceivably giant amount of hubris and cultural arrogance. Cameron, like so many in the West, simply can’t grasp, can’t conceive, can’t even begin to wrap his head around the idea that Muslims might fully understand liberal Western values and traditional Islamic values, and prefer Islamic ones.

    • He should have said that Islam was viewed as a religion of peace in the past but all that has changed. The horrendous acts created everyday and reported on in the news has changed the views of the world on Islam. We must look at the founder of Islam and see if what the jihadists are doing is based on their prophet Mohammeds deeds. If indeed he is found as a beheader, child molester, bandit and more, then those that follow this man need to realize that this is their choice of a religion to follow. Evil prevails in their world.

  3. Stateless? Who cares! Let them stay in the same s…. that they went in the first place. M

    • He should have said that Islam was viewed as a religion of peace in the past but all that has changed. The horrendous acts created everyday and reported on in the news has changed the views of the world on Islam. We must look at the founder of Islam and see if what the jihadists are doing is based on their prophet Mohammeds deeds. If indeed he is found as a beheader, child molester, bandit and more, then those that follow this man need to realize that this is their choice of a religion to follow. Evil prevails in their world.

    • They are not stateless. Islamic State. Would that I could underline ‘STATE’
      They believe in it. Who are we to deny it.
      I hope IS makes passports.

  5. I was going to offer to represent the returning jihadists in court for a small fee. I would adopt a standard approach which would go like this. “M’lud my client is a nice boy from a good family. He has assured me that he took no part in any raping, pillaging and murder while in Iraq. He swore on a holy camel that he only made tea and sandwiches for moderate rebels. I would humbly submit that the interests of justice would best be served if funds were made available to let young Mohammed have a little holiday, M’Lud.”

  6. “He pointed out that withdrawing an individual’s passport would effectively make them “stateless”, a breach of UN laws.”

    The international bodies, such as the EU, the International Court of Justice, and the UN, turn out to be the greatest threat to our liberty and our security. As the population represented by each entity increases, the influence of popular opinion goes down. In other words, the opinions in an individual country affected by UN resolutions count for nothing.

    The appropriate response is for Britain to totally ignore UN mandates when security is involved.

    In terms of fairness, the UK could implement the restrictive measures on jihadists returning to Britain before the sanctions were implemented, and to make the jihadis leaving after the warning, stateless. They can take out citizenship with ISIS, or travel to the Pakistani territories. They won’t be happy, of course, but will have to live with the fact that it was, in every way, their choice.

    I’m still not happy with Britain allowing jihadis to travel to a foreign country with the obvious intent of murdering Christians and other Muslims of a different sect. The moral choice for a country would be to intern potential jihadis indefinitely before they get the opportunity to murder.

  7. “UK: Cameron will ban jihadis returning from Islamic State for two years”

    “UK: Cameron will ban Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller in perpetuity”

    • I was thinking the same thing. Mr. Spencer has a lifetime ban from entering Britain, but a Mohammedan warrior is allowed to enter after two years. It is sheer madness.

      • Mr. Spencer has a lifetime ban from entering Britain, but a Mohammedan warrior is allowed to enter after two years. It is sheer madness.

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        Precisely!

    • This is the problem with Cameron’s laws – there is some weird kind of spread about them.

      This new law is meant to be one of the prong attacks against the terrorists – who after two long years might be happily living in the Islamic State – they are laying the ground for [new IS gold, silver and copper coinage announced today] – also in Cameron’s arsenal – is these creepy ‘Extremist Disruption Orders’ – and don’t be fooled by the name – it promises mass arrests across society spectrum.

      Virtually anyone can become an extremist!

      Literally your preacher in church could be deemed a terrorist under these new proposed measures. Equally those suggesting that Shari’a law is not right for the UK – from Nigel Farage – to the ex-Muslim group ‘One Law for All – No Sharia Law’ – could all be deemed extremists – and may face arrest or have their freedoms severely restricted. Persons charged under it would not be able to appear on TV [effectively state control of the media] – and would need police permission to post something on the internet. [There are also parts that deal with the undermining of democracy – which some worry ‘Socialist Worker’ party activists might fall within its reach – for intrigue possibly.

      For the moment the proposed Extremist Orders progress has been halted on freedom of speech grounds – by the Liberal Democrats.

      But team Cameron is not done yet – this Chucky Doll of a law – is meant to feature in their election manifesto. Theresa May argues – it will keep Britain safer .

      It demonstrates how a – by the people for the people – Constitution could define the limits of the law.

      ::

      Announcing the law in Australia’s Parliament – all this seems like showboating – I’m important – We are getting tough on terror – but were they not getting tough before – and now there are more Muslims fighting on side of Isis – than for any EU national army.

      At least now Cameron is saying – it is the fault of the Islamic narrative – and not for example poverty and the lack of opportunity.

      ::

      They are trying to legislate their way to a pitch perfect society – but what you end up with is a dictatorship – when you control all its sounds.

      What started with the need to deal with Islamic extremists – has moved to seeing a need for tougher and tougher laws to fight extremism everywhere.

      Meanwhile the wannabe-terrorist settles down to read a few books – on Islamic jihad and global Sharia — who’s in there so long – he emerges with a long beard.

  8. He pointed out that withdrawing an individual’s passport would effectively make them “stateless”, a breach of UN laws.

    The Jihadists made themselves stateless, not the government. Out of two obligations, which one should the government honor: following UN laws or protecting the people they are sworn to protect? I guess the second obligation is less important than the first.

  9. PM Cameron is not resisting Islamic jihadists.
    In practice, he will not stop Islamic jihadists from returning to Britain.
    The British political class, including Cameron, are responsible for assisting the infiltation of Britain by Islamic jihadists.

  10. More hot air and nonsense from Cameron. This idiot can make statements of this kind, in the full and certain knowledge that his masters in Brussels will never allow it.
    That leaves him free to wring his hands in mock despair and claim that he tried to protect British citizens but the ECHR blocked all his efforts.

  11. Two yeeears?! Big whoop!! …merely a tap on the wrist for these evil perps. Banning them makes more sense.

    • …yeah have them return only to go prison for the REST OF THEIR SORRY LIFE! Yup.

      • Why send them to prison, Are not they non-uniformed enemy combatants of a foreign power ie sabotours/spies if so a 9mm slug or a length or rope is fine with me

  12. Somehow regulating mass murdering, rape and pillaging as you would traffic offenses doesn’t seem like a good idea. Sort of like giving Charlie Manson probation.

  13. de-radicalisation programmes.

    You can’t de-radicalize that which is not radical. It’s a feel good program that will have minimal results. A two year ban would give the jihadist time to understand what he has been misunderstanding…But in most cases two years is no where near long enough, and may be impossible.

  14. He might as well as said, “We are weak and will be ready to be conquered in two years. Please practice on Middle Eastern Christians until then. Our bombing raids are intended to acquaint the brothers with the capabilities of the RAF so that when it becomes your air force, you will be able to properly wield it against the Jews. I actually mean you no harm. Salaam.”

  15. I could barely believe what I was listening to on the radio this morning when I heard this. 2 years! Wish my country was actually run by people with some guts and backbone rather than this lot of wilfully blind, wilfully ignorant, weak, spineless dhimmies. When Muhammad gets back from his jaunt from the caliphate, finishes his ‘de-radicalisation’ program and carries out a west-gate style atrocity, the whole lot of the idiots who came up with this should be tried as accessories to the crime. Cameron, it’s quite simple – anyone who chooses to go has made their choice and should not be stopped, but should immediately and irrevocably forfeit their citizenship and NEVER be allowed to return to these shores.

  16. UK: Cameron will ban jihadis returning from Islamic State for two years
    …………………………

    I don’t even know how to respond to this. Is this (marginally) better than letting them back in immediately as long as they take “deradicalization” finger painting classes? Uh, I guess so…

    Although this could well just give the appearance of “doing something”, which might be worst of all.

    Predictably, of course, even this milquetoast proposal is too much for the greatest dhimmis and enablers of Jihad:

    “Plan to refuse jihadists re-entry to UK breaches citizenship laws, say critics”

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/14/uk-jihadists-citizenship-laws-human-rights

    And one of the most high-profile groups protesting this is the Quilliam Foundation, which even some Anti-Jihadists have been fooled into believing is a “moderate” Muslim body.

    Meanwhile, as noted, the very peaceful and civilized Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller, from the ‘suspect’ land of America, seem to be banned for good.

    Suicidal madness…

    • It goes to show you how infiltrated their government is. Who has influence? advising? They follow the same pattern everywhere they settle, yet no one ever counters is. So irritating to watch knowing you are helpless to change the course of events.

  17. Robert, we must not have overly-high expectations. Within appropriate expectations, this is VERY good news. Cameron is banning them for two years. After two years it will be reviewed. In two years, more political will for further bans may gather.

    It’s not UK policy as you or I would run it, but it’s better than UK policy as Hope not Hate would run it, and that’s something. In fact, that’s not just something, that’s a lot.

    • A lot can happen in two years.

      I would encourage UK posters to lobby their MPs to support a two-year flat ban on the return of known or reasonably-suspected Jihadis.

      But demand that it be simplified. Demand that all the messing about around the edges be dropped; the nonsense about being “on bail”, the interviews, the offer of deradicalisation, etc and so forth: demand that all of that be dispensed with, as waaay too expensive and totally futile anyway.

      State, over and over, that you as a UK citizen do *not* want the government playing “Muslim roulette” (or you could call it “Jihad roulette”, or “The Let’s See Who Gets Beheaded Next Game” ) with the lives of yourself and your neighbours. State that even one more Lee Rigby or London grannie beheaded is **one too many**.

      The Muslims from the UK go abroad, they’re in a known jihad hotspot – Syria, Iraq, for that matter places like Yemen or Somalia or Libya – , they’re making jihad-saturated FB postings or putting up boastful youtube videos…they get BANNED. End of.

      Pocket the two-year ban; but immediately start pushing hard for a permanent ban on the return to the UK of any and all British-passport-holding Muslims who are known to have gone to jihad hotspots and engaged in or assisted with Jihad.

      Furthermore, insist that the last thing you want is that they should be prevented from *leaving*; because if they stay, then they are likely to start killing Infidels right where they are.

      Over and over and over, to all your elected reps, make the points: “Better Out Than In”, and “Let them go; DON’T let them back in”. And…”think of the money we’ll save”.

      Don’t forget; Muslims, all the time, get small concessions and parley them into bigger ones.

      Why can’t infidels do the same?

      Start from this, and see what you can get if you persist.

  18. Now look here, you jolly jihadis … don’t think you can waltz back into civilized society any time soon, after chopping peoples’ heads off all over the Syrian countryside. I’ll teach you how peaceful Islam is if its the last thing I do!

  19. SORRY BUT TREASON AND GENOCIDE ARE NOT TRANSFERABLE WITH TIME, NEVER WERE AND NEVER WILL BE, AN EXERCISE IN FUTILITY THAT ENCOURAGES MASS MURDER AND NATION SUICIDE.

  20. SORRY BUT TREASON AND GENOCIDE ARE NOT TRANSFERABLE WITH TIME, NEVER WERE AND NEVER WILL BE, AN EXERCISE IN FUTILITY THAT ENCOURAGES MASS MURDER AND NATION SUICIDE.

  21. Liberals cannot comprehend that anyone would not choose liberalism and all the niceties of a civilized society in favor of backward 7th century political society and philosophy such as Islam.

    • Islam encourages people to give into their base desires and impulses and actually rewards this behavior, thus the appeal of islam. It amplifies human nature and what’s worse rewards it. Acting like a modern day Viking is very appealing to many people.

    • I mean just think you are some peasant in some country somewhere grinding away at your 9-5 or unemployed, but of you embrace this ideology you can become a warrior, have slaves, sex slaves, murder with impunity anyone you dislike be part of some great cause changing the face of the world ect. Did I say when you die you are rewarded in heaven with 72 virgins. Islam reminds me of the Viking ideology with Valhalla. Dying in battle to go to paradise. We have modern day Vikings on our hands, and this appeals to many. Wishing to do battle with your enemies does have a certain appeal. Even I myself wish to do battle with the Islamic State, there is a certain thrill one gets when they experience a life or death combat situation, I’m just being honest. I survived the streets and had several life or death battles and after you survive one you are exhilerated. I am not alone or unique in feeling this way. It’s the darker side of human nature rearing it’s ugly head.

      • With meaning kill them not innocents just making that point clear don’t need the FBI at my house lol.

        • Fighting other predators in combat is appealing, many in the military and law enforcement I’d wager also get a certain thrill when they engage another predator in combat. Many in law enforcement and the military are predators themselves but they enjoy hunting other predators not hurting innocent civilians. It’s the same thrill a detective gets when they are hunting someone. Many people must think I’m crazy, but there really is an appeal to engaging in life or death struggles with other predators.

  22. It is a good deal. Go ahead and kill inocent people and cut the heads of our own people. Your punishment will be that you can not come back for 2 years here. This makes great sense to me. Robert Spencer can never go to UK either for all the heads he cut off here in the USA.

    Humanity is really lost guys.

    • I disagree when the coddled west is once again is forced to fight to the death for their lives that fire will rekindle that they buried. The fire burns within all of us friend, we are savage animals deep inside, we are actually the most savage of all beasts. When backed up against a wall you would be surprised at how even docile people will turn ruthless. Just like when some criminal tries to hurt someones child you will see the same response.

      What would you fear more a mother protecting her child or your common murderer? I’d fear the mother protecting her child more. You will see a rapid change in western thinking as this goes on and gets worse. When survival is at stake watch our animalistic nature comes to life with the ferocity of a hurricane. We in the west have lived a good peaceful life for a good long while, we forgot what it took to carve out that life. We will remember eventually, or we will be destroyed, I’m banking on the fact that humans won’t just lie down like that when their survival and the survival of their families is truly threatened. You think momma bear will let her cubs get killed without a vicious fight? The same concept applies. Watch in the years to come you will see a massive shift in peoples thinking.

      • I know this from first hand experience too. I’m a laid back person who hates conflict usually, but I’ve found myself in situations where I’ve had to tap into that darker side of human nature and go back to being that savage beast in order to survive. It’s in all of us. Put a bunch of people on a desert island watch what lengths people will go to survive.

        The survival mechanism in all creatures is very strong. We have dulled ours because of the years we have lived in peace and prosperity. But even Mr Smith at your local BBQ has a much darker and savage nature when backed into a corner, we all do. If and when we get backed into that corner you will really see the fangs come out. I’ve seen this first hand with people.

  23. The Brit Jihadis enthusiastically went to take part in a murder spree against civilians with ISIS. ISIS, with their help has beheaded, crucified and generally murdered thousands of helpless civilians, minorities or wrong sect of Islam people. What kind of sick twisted fool is Cameron to even think about letting these murderers into the UK again period. They ought to be charged with murder for associating themselves with or becoming members of ISIS, a murderous organization, tried in absentia and convicted of murder and have a space reserved for them in jail for life if they ever try to return.

  24. Where are the war crimes prosecutions for the ISIS associated beheaders and their recruiters in Britain? This nothing measure makes Cameron and his supporters look complicit because they are complicit.

  25. Never mind, you can have two years on-the-job training before being allowed back into Britain in 2016, a fully fledged hardline Islamist, battle-hardened, and ready for the intifada in 2020.

    /Cameron

    • And experience is always a big seller when companies are looking to hire. It will look that much better on their jihad resume. At least the Islamic State is willing to hire those with entry level experience. I guess they see the positive aspects of developing talent from within. With two more years experience I foresee mid level management in some of these jihadists bright futures.

  27. Wow… two years?

    Just curious, but where did that number come from? Was it based on some analysis that those banned from the UK would be X percent less likely to commit terrorist attacks? Or is that when the next election is?

    Two years seems like a pretty good amount of time to actually plan a terrorist attack?

  28. 2 years isn’t enough – allow those Jihadists back in and they will continue to rape and slaughter non-Muslims.

    Again, Muslims do NOT belong in the UK. Kick them all out NOW.

  29. UK taxpayers are going to pay for UK officials to fly to Syria to interview these evil Muslim murderous pigs? David Cameron, the queen, and UK House of Lords are all stupid idiots.

  30. well at least he has done something. more than I can say for our little o who just wants to let ever one come in the US. open borders THE NEW WORLD ORDER WITH SHARIA LAW. HOW DOES THAT SOUND?

  32. The tail is wagging the dog and the muslim minority has the Western politicians
    exactly where they want them. They cannot take any real measures to deal with Islamic supremicism as they keep denying its existence, they are also afraid of the Muslim voter who is steadily gaining more and more influence. This where decades of tolerance, appeasement, multiculturalism and PC has brought us.

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