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Jihad Watch

Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

UK officials hesitate to prosecute returning jihadis for fear of seeming “anti-Muslim”

Nov 9, 2014 11:06 pm By Robert Spencer

UK-JihadisBritain’s rapid national suicide is the stuff of tragedy, but with stories like these, it is edging into farce. British officials are afraid to come down too hard on jihadis returning from the Islamic State because they don’t want to be seen as “anti-Muslim.” The Muslims who left Britain to join the Islamic State were joining an entity that considers itself to be at war with the United Kingdom, but British authorities are trying to figure out how to establish that these fellows committed any terrorist acts while in Syria or Iraq.

Meanwhile, “jihadi rehab” has failed wherever it has been tried, and given the British official unwillingness to acknowledge how jihadis use Islamic texts and teachings to justify their actions, it is extremely unlikely that they will be able to convince these young men to give up “extremism.”

As Britain rushes toward what looks to be inevitable blood in the streets and civil war, all we can do is sit by and watch the…fireworks.

“Returning Islamist fighters offered ‘jihadi rehab’ instead of prosecution for supporting blood-thirsty terrorist groups despite May’s pledges,” by Chris Greenwood, Daily Mail, November 9, 2014 (thanks to Blazing Cat Fur):

Returning Islamist fighters are being offered ‘jihadi rehab’ instead of prosecution for supporting blood-thirsty terrorist groups.

The vast majority of more than 300 young men who have arrived back from Syria and Iraq are being allowed to continue their normal lives.

Many have been offered places on the Government’s counter-radicalisation scheme, known as the Channel programme, which has seen a substantial rise in referrals.

Evidence of the ‘softer approach’ comes despite assurances from Home Secretary Theresa May that terrorist sympathisers will face the full force of the law.

She said new legislation should be ready by the end of this month as David Cameron insisted returning jihadists should face ‘criminal investigations and prosecution’.

Two Cardiff men who travelled to Syria have been allowed to return to their homes despite being arrested under the Terrorism Act.

Ahmed Mohammadi, 19, and Shahid Miah, 23, were released without charge and instead referred to Channel despite their close ties with Islamic State.

The scheme has seen a 58 per cent rise (from 748 to 1,281) in the number of referrals in the past year as the crisis in the Middle East grew.

Whitehall sources said one of the biggest problems is securing evidence of terrorist activities committed by Britons 2,000 miles away in Syria.

One told the Sunday Times that investigators also want to balance the approach towards returning jihadists with the need to avoid being perceived as ‘anti- Muslim’.

The official said: ‘The police and MI5 are being careful about how to handle the returnees because they don’t want to disturb community cohesion.

‘Obviously they have to protect this country’s national security, but without any solid evidence . . . it’s very difficult to arrest and charge them.

‘The authorities are increasingly using a softer approach by enlisting returnees into Channel which . . . helps them challenge and ultimately change their extremist views.’…

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Filed Under: United Kingdom, Useful idiots, willful ignorance Tagged With: featured


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Comments

  1. Richie says

    Nov 9, 2014 at 11:14 pm

    This is beyond cowardice.

    What do the citizens in the UK think of this???

    • Saleem Smith says

      Nov 9, 2014 at 11:59 pm

      UK citizens are being led like lambs to the slaughter by their government.

      But don’t dare speak an ill word about Islamic theology or Mohammed.

      Or you might be arrested for “hate speech” !

      We ex-Muslims living with Islam’s formal and informal death penalty for apostasy know that Islamic theology is a complete and total fraud.

      Here is a recent statement from a group of Bangladeshi apostates living in the UK explaining the reasons why they have abandoned Islam:

      “One who claims to be a messenger of God is expected to live a saintly life. He must not be given to lust, he must not be a sexual pervert, and he must not be a rapist, a highway robber, a war criminal, a mass murderer or an assassin. One who claims to be a messenger of God must have a superior character. He must stand above the vices of the people of his time. Yet Muhammad’s life is that of a gangster godfather. He raided merchant caravans, looted innocent people, massacred entire male populations and enslaved the women and children. He raped the women captured in war after killing their husbands and told his followers that it is okay to have sex with their captives (Qur’an 33:50). He assassinated those who criticized him and executed them when he came to power and became de facto despot of Arabia. Muhammad was bereft of human compassion. He was an obsessed man with his dreams of grandiosity and could not forgive those who stood in his way…

      The statement continues,

      Muhammad was a narcissist, like Hitler, Saddam or Stalin. He was astute and knew how to manipulate people, but his emotional intelligence was less evolved than that of a 6-year-old child. He simply could not feel the pain of others. He brutally massacred thousands of innocent people and pillaged their wealth. His ambitions were big and as a narcissist he honestly believed he is entitled to do as he pleased and commit all sorts of crimes and his evil deeds are justified.”

      • Andrew GB says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 10:04 am

        Otherwise a thoroughly good neighbour and pillar of society.

        What could possibly go wrong with allowing a high concentration of his followers in communities and ensuring the ’99 soldiers’ who are out of step with Islam conform?

        The Uk is broken but, hopefully, not beyond repair.

      • Kash says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 4:47 pm

        Hitler, Saddam, and Stalin- those are the names he should be listed with, rather than Jesus, Moses, Buddha, etc.

    • cs says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 6:57 am

      I am a migrant on the UK, and I want to move out as soon as possible, it is really a suicidal society, all the values that made Britain an interesting and prosperous country are being flushed down.
      It is truly unbelievable, people who stands for freedom of speech, and all the liberties enable this sort of discourse, who ultimately will curb all the liberties they fight for, it is so obvious, it is a product of intellectual cowardice, cognitive dissonance, that prevents them to realize what is really going on, they keep saying it is a small minority of 1000 people only, but it is not the case, some of the “moderates” are not moderates at all.
      Read Londonistan, and you will have a better idea of what is going on, this book was published in 2006, alerting on the perils of Islamization, from there up to now, nothing was done, and it just became 10X worse, still people are in denial.
      The only guy who dare speak about it, Stephen Lennon is demonized from all sides, but he is right in every instance.

      • Judi says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 9:37 am

        Paul Weston of Liberty GB is another who speaks out and gets arrested for quoting Winston Churchill. Paul Golding of Britain First also speaks out. He too was arrested!

      • Shane says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 10:36 am

        Most European countries are not much better, but there is still hope for the USA, now that Obama has been spanked in the last election.

    • Lance says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 8:26 am

      We , UK citizens, don’t think about. Very little appears in the media about Muslim grooming (huge in many cities) or jihadists. I don’t think kobane has been on the BBC in about a fortnight.

      Spencer is right, uk is afraid of Muslims and gov probably afraid of reaction of groups like NF if everything was well published, no small coincidence that UKIP party here thriving. Tories think people are stupid. Maybe they are.

      • Linda Rivera says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 3:36 pm

        UK ruling elites are NOT afraid of muslims. They have sold their souls. They are utterly evil. They LOVE muslims and intensely hate God, the Bible, Jews and Christians and intensely hate our white indigenous British people, who are severely discriminated against by UK ruling elites. Christians desperate to escape severe muslim persecution are barred from our countries. Western leaders want ONLY muslim immigrants as proven by our Western nations taking in mega millions of muslims.

        Western leaders are the biggest traitors that ever walked God’s earth.

    • AndrewC says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 10:33 am

      The people of the UK still don’t understand the true nature and agenda of Islam. As long as we have this dhimmi Prime Minster and Home Secretary, we will drift further and further towards total subservience to Muslim wishes.
      Can anyone imagine Winston Churchill or Margaret Thatcher standing idly by and accepting this crap

    • Jayell says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 12:18 pm

      What does the British Public think about this? I could tell you what the majority UK citizens think about all this but it would be unprintable. Get the picture?

  2. Richie says

    Nov 9, 2014 at 11:16 pm

    but chances are the authorities won’t hesitate to prosecute people who speak out against the Islamic terrorists. God forbid we offend the terrorists

  3. Salah says

    Nov 9, 2014 at 11:17 pm

    “As Britain rushes toward what looks to be inevitable blood in the streets and civil war…”

    The only way to avoid this bloody scenario is a massive peaceful popular uprising.
    Again, they’ve done it in Egypt, why can’t we?

    http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-end-of-muslim-brotherhood.html

    • the vilest of creatures says

      Nov 9, 2014 at 11:26 pm

      I keep hearing Robert and others here talking of this inevitable civil war with in your words ‘blood in the streets’.

      Where have you seen any indication that the native Brits will lift one finger to stop the Islamization of their nation? I never even hear anything more about the EDL. I’m afraid the Brits will nothing more than quietly succumb to Islamic rule and will either convert or become cowed dhimmis.

      • Robert Spencer says

        Nov 9, 2014 at 11:33 pm

        You may be right, O vilest of creatures. Maybe the blood will be from all the joyous beheadings celebrating the imposition of Sharia in Britain.

        • PAthena says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 2:07 am

          Wasn’t a British soldier, Lee Rigby, beheaded in public?

        • gravenimage says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 6:49 pm

          The only thing that would be worse than a civil war—assuming that British authorities don’t wake up in time, which appears more and more remote—is if there *isn’t* a civil war, and Britons just go quietly into that not-so-good night.

        • PJG says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 10:02 pm

          Strangely, many people seem to believe that giving up and giving in will lead to safety, if only a cowed safety. History shows us that there is no such assurance to be had from Muslim conquerors; but that is not all. Many Muslims have been whipped into fervour by those using them, the sheiks and imams and so on, because of colonialism and the perceived need for revenge to be taken for the “humiliation” of Islam during those years. Not only that but for “attacking Muslims” in the Middle east since 9/11.
          There is huge scope for revenge attacks, even if Western governments hand over everything to them, because NOTHING could possibly atone for all that terrible “humiliation”.
          And that itself could be exacerbated by the non-Muslims of former colonised countries who might be inspired to join them in exacting revenge. Some of these people are quite vocal about their contempt for the countries which have take them in as refugees or otherwise as migrants. (A South Sudanese man told me yesterday that there was never a problem with Islam in his country and there was no slavery, nothing, until the US and Israel for their own nefarious reasons created division in the Sudan. If the blood-letting were to start, which side would he take?)
          No, we cannot take refuge in a cosy idea of semi-comfortable dhimmitude, with Muslims themselves adhering to the limits of their control of us as laid down by Omar, with a manageable amount of jizya to be extracted from our still-burgeoning economies and with just the odd rape gang attacking some lower-class girls we can more or less ignore…we are in a “winner takes all” kind of situation, and we really can’t afford to lose.

      • citycat says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 12:40 am

        I don’t agree. There is an under force that will rise. You’ll see. From the native english, what’s left of them. A fight to the death

        • Wolfgang says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 12:58 am

          Loud laughing on my part……..Europe along with the Brits are in their death throes……..like lemmings they are all racing for the cliff……show me otherwise ?, the evidence of future actions is and are the past actions. WW2 ended 70 years ago roughly and England did NOT fare well I can assure you. No one in central Europe did.

        • citycat says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 1:11 am

          The otherwise to show you is hidden in the people. If you’re not in it you don’t see it, just at present, but i can be confident that it will surface, and fierce.

        • Change Watch says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 9:50 pm

          We are already past the point of no return. Read A Consequence of Apathy by NR Baldwin. This courageous author writes about what will happen if the UK keeps appeasing Islam.

          http://www.amazon.com/Consequence-Apathy-NR-Baldwin/dp/150043390X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1415673919&sr=1-1&keywords=a+consequence+of+apathy

      • ECAW says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 4:57 am

        “Where have you seen any indication that the native Brits will lift one finger to stop the Islamization of their nation? I never even hear anything more about the EDL”

        No, you will certainly never see any indication here that the native Brits… etc, nor hear anything about the EDL because Robert Spencer fell out with them a year ago. The only mention I have seen of them here is one reference to them as one of those people and organisations which ruined Britain.

        Nevertheless the EDL is alive and flourishing, having recovered from the ugly affair of Tommy Robinson’s departure and Spencer being banned from speaking at an EDL rally in Britain. They have kicked out the far-right groups that Robinson claimed he couldn’t get rid of and have been improving their strategy and PR.

        It seems that Robert Spencer either hasn’t checked them out lately or knows something we EDL supporters don’t. If so, I wish he would share it with us.

        • Steffen Larsen says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 5:23 am

          The EDL affair has had its ups and downs. Quite frankly I think any connection to the EDL is best avoided, it is not worth the trouble, if only because anything in Europe called “XXXX Defense League” has a very bad press and is used to attack Mr. Spencer and Jihad Watch.
          We have been assured before this that everything is OK with the EDL.

        • ECAW says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 6:11 am

          That’s a very understandable point of view, but it might be out of date. How would anyone know without taking the trouble to investigate?

          Yes, the EDL get a very bad press. That’s mostly because we have a very bad press which routinely and lazily refer to “the far-right EDL”. It is not true, they are not far right. They have no explicit position on the conventional political spectrum. Life long wet liberals like me wouldn’t support them otherwise, and I’m not the only one.

          The EDL suffer primarily from two things. Firstly, they are predominantly working class and secondly they are right.

          Anyway, who else is there in Britain prepared to speak out and face the consequences? If you only read Jihad Watch, you’d be convinced that no one is fighting back in Britain and that it is entirely populated by lemmings looking for the cliff edge. I’m sorry to be a bore on the subject but I intend to challenge that view wherever I see it.

        • Robert Spencer says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 6:50 am

          I have no interest in checking them out. I do not endorse, and will not endorse, any group of any kind in the UK. Not now. Not ever.

        • ECAW says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 6:59 am

          Delighted (and honoured) to have caught your attention.

          Nevertheless your response doesn’t make any sense. You certainly endorse Gavin Boby’s organisation (by your actions) and you once similarly endorsed the EDL.

          I am really shocked that you have no interest in checking them out in case you might be wrong. What closed mindedness! Unbelievable in someone who works so hard against the closed mindedness of others.

        • Robert Spencer says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 7:08 am

          “What closed mindedness! Unbelievable in someone who works so hard against the closed mindedness of others.”

          On the contrary, it’s a perfectly reasonable response to events.

        • ECAW says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 7:11 am

          Events of a year ago.

          Things have changed since then.

        • Robert Spencer says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 10:38 am

          “Things have changed since then.”

          Great. Have at it. Best of luck. I’ll be watching. But as the events of the last year and a half showed, I have no friends and allies in Britain, and will not make any attempts to cultivate any now or at any time in the future.

        • ECAW says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 10:57 am

          You have plenty of friends and admirers in Britain. I hope we can convince you of that.

          Thanks for all the great work you do.

        • Wolfgang says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 5:44 pm

          Robert you do realize that you would probably not be welcome in Australia or New Zealand don’t you ?……I would make a strong guess that is what would happen. I could be wrong but looking at how Australian and New Zealand leading Politicians refuse to see any danger at all in Islam and spout the same verbal garbage as Cameron and Obama, one can see the same result.

        • ManchesterLad says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 2:02 pm

          You have plenty of supporters in the UK Robert.

          It’s just we have to keep quiet about it for fear of being attacked by moderate Muslims in our neighbourhood and being arrested for ‘hate crime’ by the stasi if we step out of line.

          I do not come to this site for good news – though it would be great to read some – but I come here for the news that we just will never get from the UK media.

          Believe me, you are very, very much appreciated. Ignore the f** government, they don’t represent me. They are putting me and my descendants at risk through their cowardice. They disgust me.

        • Linda Rivera says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 3:49 pm

          I will be grateful until I take my last breath upon this earth for the courageous EDL human rights activists who protest in street demos against Islamisation and sharia, but most of all because my EDL HEROES protest against the dirty, demonic, inhuman, savage sex-slaver muslim monsters – the Spawn of Satan who have gang raped, tortured, and forced into prostitution and sex slavery many thousands of Britain’s little white infidel girls.

          Only God knows how much this means to me. I would consider it a great honor if EDL would let me speak at an EDL demo. In Britain, join in the fight for our freedom and survival! Join EDL protests and join patriotic, counter jihad party, Liberty GB. Paul Weston, Liberty GB leader, was arrested by the police for quoting in public what Winston Churchill said about Islam.

          Long live Britain!

        • Robert Spencer says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 9:32 pm

          “Robert you do realize that you would probably not be welcome in Australia or New Zealand don’t you ?”

          No, I entered Australia and spoke there with no problem earlier this year, after the UK ban was already in place.

        • Robert Spencer says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 9:34 pm

          “You have plenty of supporters in the UK Robert.”

          Thank you, I was speaking imprecisely, referring to high-profile people who could and should have spoken out clearly against the ban and instead insisted they had “distanced themselves” from us or issued waffling “well the ban is wrong but they’re awful anyway” statements. They didn’t seem to realize the principles at stake and rushed to save themselves — short-sightedly, as they will discover.

        • Mirren10 says

          Nov 12, 2014 at 3:43 pm

          Mr Spencer, you said:

          ”But as the events of the last year and a half showed, I have no friends and allies in Britain, and will not make any attempts to cultivate any now or at any time in the future.”

          Not so. Paul Weston of LibertyGB would be a friend and ally, as would myself, and thousands like me. We British are not our government.

      • Arthur says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 9:14 am

        we EDL are still going strong and fighting our corner.

      • Alarmed Pig Farmer says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 11:27 am

        Where have you seen any indication that the native Brits will lift one finger to stop the Islamization of their nation? I never even hear anything more about the EDL.

        The role of mass media, a loosely organized but highly effective body of news entertainers always in the act of programming opinion, in all of this means that just because you don’t see doesn’t mean it’s not there. Those days of clarity and certainty are long gone.

        The trouble is that the gubmint of England and the UK are allied with self-destruction, and that means giving voice to opposition for self-preservation is a dicey proposition, one that could end a career in a day. And we can’t expect the other big arm of the opinion programming industry, education, to weigh a balance against the jokers on television or in the newspaper. They’re even worse.

        How the opposition will manifest itself is very much an open question, but it will, somehow some way.

      • pumbar says

        Nov 11, 2014 at 12:14 am

        Paul Weston at a recent EDL march;

    • mortimer says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 9:50 am

      Agreeing with Saleem. UK governments are not admitting the risks of allowing terrorists to return.

      But the phlegmatic British will not rise up. Half of them are Fabian Socialists who believe in using immigration to keep their party in power. Brits are intimidated by those who use the ‘racist’ slander whenever Islam’s jihad against disbelievers is mentioned. The Fabians are selling out the native peoples of Britain through immigration for the sake of political power.

      British socialists are riding (and feeding) the Islamic tiger. How will they dismount the tiger?

      • Darren says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 11:25 am

        Sounds just like the U.S, except we are using a different kind of immigrant for the most part. While not jihadists uneducated third worlders will vote for whoever gives them free stuff. They are trying to replace the electorate with desperate third worlders so they can stay in power and gain more power. The betrayal going on in western governments is an amazing sight to behold.

  4. John says

    Nov 9, 2014 at 11:18 pm

    If this was not serious you would sit down and have a good laugh, what damn fool is making these stupid decisions. If it were up to me and we all think our opinions are right of course, I would cancel their passports and let them live happily ever after in Muslim Land !!
    http://youtu.be/y0SOGRqnNFQ

  5. Jay Boo says

    Nov 9, 2014 at 11:46 pm

    When a leadership is by lemmings
    it is too late to call in the Pied Piper to get rid of the rats.

    This is why an extremist in Norway felt his only way to wake up the political establishment was with bombs and a semi-automatic.

    • Nicu says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 12:36 am

      Same in Sweden , Germany , Italy and other European countries 🙁

      • AM says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 8:36 am

        Please don’t say something so depressing. I am a white South African (with a German passport)…..and have always thought to myself that when the sh1t really hits the fan here, then I can always go to Europe.

        Now I realise there is no escape and no longer a place that a person of European descent can call “home”……….

        When looking at the developments in Europe as an outsider, it is so obvious that the European nations are being destroyed by immigration. But they are completely brainwashed and blinded and unwilling to fight for their childrens’ heritage and future.

    • mortimer says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 10:06 am

      Breivik committed a jihad attack against cultural Marxists and their families similar to the attacks of jihadists the world over.

      It’s only by winning friends and influencing people that we can raise awareness of political Islam. Breivik muddied the waters by providing an example of counterjihad violence…one example. The jihad enablers don’t realize that 3 deadly jihad attacks occur every day and over 20,000 jihad attacks have occurred since 9-11. Many great errors in reasoning may be avoid by counting: 1 versus 20,000. Something is happening on one side that is not happening on the other.

      • Alarmed Pig Farmer says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 11:35 am

        It’s only by winning friends and influencing people that we can raise awareness of political Islam.

        Not to nitpick, but that term always raises the question of just what *is* non-political Islam. The great Holy Prophet Mohammed had lots of policies when he was alive, and his successors have enforced one policy after another since. There are winners and losers in any society, but the losers in Islam are every bit as political as the winners, and that includes every last one of the “pre-activated” Moslems roaming around, inculcated, subconsciously waiting and alert for The Call to join the Cause of which Allah so excitedly preached.

  6. somehistory says

    Nov 9, 2014 at 11:50 pm

    Okay, let me be Mr. Spock for a moment.

    The islamic state doesn’t have anything to do with islam.
    The men going there to fight have a wrong idea about islam.
    The men who went to fight are now being treated to *rehab* to *de-radicalize* them (Webster will be adding new words and pages) from their wrong view of islam.
    Authorities don’t want to prosecute these men for their war crimes and fighting against their own country because it would be anti-muslim.
    Because they know what might be going through the minds of others who buy a cruise ship ticket to Turkey with cab fare to Syria, they can assist the local cops in finding the new guys, rehab them, and give them a job helping to id yet more guys who think like they do.

    Questions: Do they believe that muslims have a different ideology from islam, a different belief from islam when they go to fight and if so, what belief, what ideology? And if they are not belonging to islam when going to fight, how are they suddenly belonging to islam when they return from fighting? If they are not believing according to islam when going, are they not then non-muslim? And if they are muslim when going, then muslim when returning, doesn’t this mean islamic state is really islam after all?

    Their reasoning is not logical, Captain. It’s kind of like saying the guy who holds up a store and kills the clerk and all the customers was not really a criminal when he so acted because he thought since he didn’t have any money, he should take some. Now he has spent all of the money, been identified from his face on the store video, been caught and questioned and said he might have acted hastily, so they send him to rehab and give him a job at the police station interviewing others who rowed the same boat.

    The beast of Revelation 13. I used to wonder exactly how it was going to happen. I don’t have to wonder any longer.

    • Wolfgang says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 1:07 am

      @Somehistory

      You got that right. You don’t even need an IQ of 75 to understand where this is going.

      Image of the Beast Islamic Connection – Armageddon News

      • somehistory says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 11:51 am

        Thanks. I watched that video after seeing the beast arise and it confirmed what I thought. Have actually watched it a few times.
        Thanks for sharing it.

      • Alarmed Pig Farmer says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 12:00 pm

        From Baal to shamwow. If the ancient prophets behind the Old Testament were prescient, at least the Moslems are honest, in self-definition, at least.

        • somehistory says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 12:43 pm

          My brain refuses to connect *honest* with islam with one exception: when those killing, raping, stealing, cutting themselves, etc. say they are killing for their false god.
          To make the claim of worshipping a real God, and all the other stuff that comes with that claim, my mind says liars and perhaps delusional liars.

  7. Jen says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 12:07 am

    One told the Sunday Times that investigators also want to balance the approach towards returning jihadists with the need to avoid being perceived as ‘anti- Muslim’.

    The official said: ‘The police and MI5 are being careful about how to handle the returnees because they don’t want to disturb community cohesion.
    ———————————————————————–
    Bloody idiots. “Balance the approach.” With what? Civilised people? Can’t these officials look further down the track? Don’t they pay attention to what happens elsewhere in the world. They think by coddling evil doers, that this is going to make any difference to the public perception about Muslims? Whether they like it or not, the public will eventually become ‘anti-Muslim’ and realise that their community cannot be trusted (with good reason!). But it’s okay…Put a temporary band-aid on….Everything will be okay….We don’t want to accelerate the crumbling by introducing too much reality, too soon….

    “Disturb community cohesion” hmm… sounds like a little of the MC/PC neurosis creeping into their thinking with this approach. Forget the bloody cohesion. There are far more serious problems to worry about. Letting loose a bunch of people who have shown themselves to be dishonest and probably savage is plain stupidity.

    They need to put their military uniforms on and stop shying away from reality. More of the public will realise that these people are at war with our way of life, when they begin to notice a military presence. That’s another way to help wake people up, preemptively. It sounds drastic but it is far better, when dealing with Muslims, to overshoot than it is to undershoot the mark. They’re going to attack you, whether you like it or not. You may as well go at it, showing aggression in return. They’re not going to contain the ongoing problem of Muslim aggression by focusing on preventing isolated attacks. They’re not going to be ‘isolated’ cases if they keep going with this approach. More lala land thinking from the UK officials.

    • Tom says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 4:14 am

      We need to make life in the west so uncomfortable for muslims that they leave. Those that left to join ISIS or what ever name they fought under must NEVER be allowed back. If they return they should be executed for being a member of that group. Western Governments have allowed so many of them into Western countries that they are a major threat. War is coming no matter what we do and it is better to deal with the problem now rather than later.

      • ManchesterLad says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 5:19 am

        Agreed. We need a UK Guantanamo Bay, where they can be incarcerated indefinitely so they cannot be a danger to the public.

        However, this is never going to happen in the UK where the public are far more interested in which tedious nonentity is going to win the latest celebrity-bake-off-dancing-on-ice TV extravaganza.

        Have you seen the latest idea for a TV show? Hosted by returned heroes from ISIS, the audience are invited to renounce themselves – or members of their family – for unintentional prior Islamophobic thoughts. The accused then stand up and are beheaded by the ISIS heroes, all in full technicolor, to much clapping and celebration of the extreme tolerance of our culture. The surviving family members all get given a Therasa-May certificate of non-racism which they can wear with pride.

        • Jen says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 5:40 am

          the public are far more interested in which tedious nonentity is going to win the latest celebrity-bake-off-dancing-on-ice TV extravaganza.
          ——————————————
          hahaha. I hate reality TV. I actually think its a bit of crime against humanity. Along with trashy magazines. People should be teaching themselves something useful but they’re being provided with distractions so that it’s easier not to. They’re causing their brains to rot!

        • Judi says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 9:48 am

          LOL

      • Jen says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 5:35 am

        it is better to deal with the problem now rather than later.
        —————————
        YES. Now, now, now. Don’t wait. Come down on them hard, but expect ‘retaliatory’ behaviour (and push through anyway). It’s not ‘retaliation’ in the true sense of the word but they’ll say this anyway, acting as though their community hasn’t been a menace this whole time.
        You’re not going to change their mindset by ‘negotiation.’ Any kind of agreement will eventually be broken by them and you’ll be caught unawares. Not to mention, sitting there wondering when they’re going to break the agreement and having *this* hanging over your head.

        Having a sizable Muslim population in your country is asking for trouble. The *prospect* of violence in itself, is enough of a problem without the violence actually being carried out. Drain the country, drain. Make people weary. Make them avoid Muslim enclaves. Make them avoid the nice strolls through nice scenery because too many angry Muslims live nearby. Drive non-Muslims away from their own neighbourhood. There is no redeeming factors for why you would choose to allow so many Muslims into any country. The bastards can get over themselves.

      • Alarmed Pig Farmer says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 12:06 pm

        We need to make life in the west so uncomfortable for muslims that they leave.

        That will never happen. My proposal is to institute a variant on the principle of the Right of Return, with a twist on the meaning of the words to be that we have the right to return Moslems to whatever hell-hole from whence they came.

        Return is the only out. Without returning them, we’re lost. We must send tens of millions of Moslems back home to their natural habitat, to graze on one another and not us. Nah, that’ll never happen, either.

        • gravenimage says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 9:01 pm

          Drakken wrote:

          …this will have to be done the good ole fashioned way, think Balkans on steroids. You cannot fight an enemy with medieval beliefs with civilized ones, one must get downright medieval…
          …………………………..

          Why do so many people say things like this? We defeated the savage Fascists without having to descend to their level.

          We didn’t have to act like the savage Nazis and Imperial Japanese in order to defeat them—we didn’t wage genocide against them or treat Berlin and Tokyo like Nanking.

          All we have to do is act *consistently* against Jihad—the one thing that we are *not* doing.

          We have to reassert and defend our civilized values, not throw them out the window and in order to embrace barbarism.

    • Linda Rivera says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 4:25 pm

      For UK ruling elites community cohesion means allowing muslim monsters the total freedom to gang rape, sexually attack and sexually enslave many thousands of Britain’s little white infidel girls. It also means allowing muslim savages to murder infidel innocents and get away with it.

    • Wolfgang says

      Nov 11, 2014 at 5:16 pm

      @Jen

      I posted this from a email that was sent to me.

      Apache gunship killing ISIS….
      https://t.co/7y4mTryb7d

      As I remarked on another link. I have no sympathy or sorrow for these scum. remember these same individuals would be happy to cut your head off.

      This was shot at night using FLIR ( Forward looking infrared camera ) from Gunship tasked with killing ISIS , some of these terrorists are still using Rpg rounds to still shoot down the chopper even while being targeted.

  8. dlbrand says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 12:08 am

    “UK officials hesitate to prosecute returning jihadis for fear of seeming ‘anti-Muslim.'”

    Makes perfect sense.

    Given, anyone who knows Islam knows; the leaders, scribes, scholars, students of Shariah, and soldiers of the Islamic State are true examples of followers of the Book of Allah and the traditions of the prophet of Islam.

    They read those texts, digest them, comprehend them, thus, put them into practice, and live those precepts.

    Naturally, those opposing those who obey Allah and his messenger would be understood to be anti-Muslim, considering, obeying Allah and his messenger is precisely what true Muslim do.

  9. citycat says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 12:22 am

    Maybe anti islamist would suffice.
    But who will take off the blinkers from the ostriches, or do they have double dealing hands to cover their eyes, or are they lying?
    Something is terribly wrong.

  10. Ayatrollah says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 12:33 am

    Why are there no Muslims defending the faith here?

  11. Nicu says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 12:35 am

    ALL Europe let them do what they want – on the back of their own population !

    Shame on the governments ! Shame on the police who takes money from Muslims Mafia clans !

  12. zulu says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 12:43 am

    Islamic extremists infiltrating schools, university campuses and scout groups across the UK in ‘unprecedented scale’, report warns

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2827762/Islamic-extremists-infiltrating-schools-university-campuses-scout-groups-UK-unprecedented-scale-report-warns.html#ixzz3IdpZoNLm
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    ‘I’d sacrifice my children a hundred times for Allah’: Boast of said ISIS suicide-bomb Briton who killed eight in Iraqi attack

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2826693/British-jihadist-convicted-gay-hate-crimes-blows-ISIS-suicide-mission-Iraq.html#ixzz3IdppowYp
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    Unmasked: The ‘Islamic State’s Goebbels’ who masterminded beheading videos in slick campaign to sign up Britons for jihad
    Denis Cuspert was a rapper before converting to Islam and going to Syria

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2827282/Unmasked-Islamic-State-s-Goebbels-masterminded-beheading-videos-slick-campaign-sign-Britons-jihad.html#ixzz3Idq3UC57
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

  13. Dave J says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 12:44 am

    Meanwhile in other UK Muslim appeasement/shariah creep news:

    An application has been filed to create a new 11 acre Muslim-only cemetery near the village of Catherine de Barnes (population 680). It is presently agricultural land in a protected “Green Zone”. It would have room for 11,000 dead Muslims and would be off limits to non-Muslims, living or dead.

    http://www.englishdefenceleague.org/apartheid-in-life-and-in-death/

    • Wolfgang says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 1:15 am

      perhaps the graves should have this done to them….no, I wouldn’t do that, but one almost get’s tempted after watching this clip, thousands of English , Australian, Kiwi , Ghurka soldiers head stones broken in Muslim payback and rampage.

    • Jen says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 4:18 am

      That makes me sick. Since in life, Muslims believe they are above us; they don’t like the idea of being buried near us in death either. Bastards.

      NO NO NO NO!! Don’t let them have their own cemetery. The UK isn’t their country. They should go back to the Muslim world if they expect to be treated like they’re in their own special category.

      If you give these people an inch, they will take a mile. And then run you over afterwards.

      If you give them separate anything, land, anything. They will use it later as a launching point for their attacks against you. Nobody in the west should expect any kind of charity to Muslims to be responded with charity. Their outlook on life is entirely different. There’s no point trying to reconcile their outlook with ours.

      • Jen says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 5:09 am

        Hang on a sec guys, hang on a sec…

        Were the applicants who are asking for this segregated, Muslim cemetery “moderate Muslims”?

        So maybe they’re not killing people. But they still want to impose their own Muslim ways of doing things in our country. What’s wrong with being buried next to infidels? Don’t you like us?

    • ManchesterLad says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 5:31 am

      Someone should just bury a few dead pigs there!

      Of course this wouldn’t solve the problem of appeasement to sufferers of this pathetic, disgusting religion.

    • Alarmed Pig Farmer says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 1:03 pm

      It would have room for 11,000 dead Muslims and would be off limits to non-Muslims, living or dead.

      Wow, sorta like the Indians here in America where a deal ready to be done on any desirable tract of land is suddenly declared sacred ground. I wonder if this new English Moslem cemetery, a special place it will be, is gonna have road signs like in Arabia, where the exits to Mecca are marked “Moslems Only.”

    • katarzyna says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 8:05 pm

      It is going to be a burial place for M-terrorists from Birmingham.

    • dumbledoresarmy says

      Nov 11, 2014 at 11:29 pm

      Good that the EDL is onto it. Is Gavin Boby of the Law and Freedom Foundation onto it as well? He may have some ideas about how to work the local rules and regs – and the *environmental* angle – to put the stymy on it.

      They probably got away with the proposal because it isn’t so long ago that public graveyards had a “Catholic section” and a “Protestant section” and a “Jewish” section, and so on. And people probably thought that it would be like that.

      But if they’re proposing to close it to all public visitors except Muslims, that’s different.

      Because although back in the 19th century and early 20th century in, say, Australia, you might find different sections of a cemetery set aside for the graves of persons of a particular persuasion, I don’t think they were fenced off from each other such that live persons of other persuasions could not visit/ walk through.

      *That*’s the sticking point. It’s a Muslim land grab; taking a chunk of public land – I assume it’s public land? – and turning it into private Muslim property.

      I don’t know what the situation is in England with graveyards generally, but here in Australia they’re mostly open to the public at least during the daytime – so that family historians and mourners and anybody who’s interested can visit freely – and function like parkland – because they often *are* parkland, with trees and grass and sometimes flowerbeds and rose-bushes, as well as graves. When my two eldest children were little we lived in inner city Sydney, three blocks from a lovely old somewhat untidy and tree-filled 19th century graveyard surrounding a historic church. It was open during the day to all comers – it was a favourite dog-walking spot and a bit of a lovers’ lane – and we had many a family birthday-party picnic there.

  14. KiwiKaffir says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 1:07 am

    Anti islamism isn’t anti muslim, surely it is ok for a government to oppose an ideology which wants to overthrow it!

  15. Dave J says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 1:28 am

    The government and police do not wish to seem “anti-Muslim”.

    OK, fair enough, on an individual basis. Innocent until proven guilty, without prejudice. The problem is that there are no, none, zero Muslims who explicitly reject the Koran and Hadiths – if they did they would be ex-Muslims (and likely soon ex-humans).

    So while I don’t hate Muslim individuals, I definitely don’t trust them either. I do hate the ideology that holds them prisoner, blocks all reform and encourages deceitful acts to advance this goal of global subjugation.

    If ever there was a group that needed to rise up and break the chains of delusion and mental slavery it is the millions of Muslims who were unlucky enough to have been born into a brainwashing cult that places no value on civility or indeed civilization.

    • Jen says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 4:46 am

      Innocent until proven guilty, without prejudice.
      ——————————————
      Without any prejudice? That statement of “innocent until proven guilty” relates to *our* form of legal system. The burden of proof in criminal cases will typically rest with the prosecution. The phrase is commonly used in every day speak to relate to other things, but it comes from our way of doing things. Not Sharia.

      We aren’t dealing with our own people when we are using that phrase and then trying to apply it to them. In the case of Muslims, we are dealing with people who have a ‘religion’ which says something very different about the world. We have a presumption of innocence generally speaking, but is there a case to be made that this presumption of innocence doesn’t make sense in this context?

      It will be very hard for you in future (or your children or children’s children) to deal with Muslims without prejudice. When or if, the Muslim population grows and you are living in the thick of it. Very hard. It will always be in the back of your mind. Nor should anyone be faulted at all for holding this prejudice. It is flippin’ impossible not to. You can be nice to them certainly, but it is impossible not be wary because if they’ve identified as Muslim, you cannot be sure that they won’t hold some kind of loyalty to their own culture, despite not wearing Islamic dress. Muslims do turn on their own neighbours you know. Has happened to us. No “moderate Muslims” from nearby houses came to tell us how sorry they were that their fellow Muslims treat us like dogs (in direct accordance with their Islamic texts which they themselves, identifying as Muslim, claim to adhere to).

      • Darren says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 11:33 am

        islam in a man is like rabies in a dog – Winston Churchhill.

        No truer statement has ever been uttered.

  16. K. Hoomi says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 1:57 am

    The level of self-hatred exhibited by (non-Muslim) Brits is likely unprecedented in the history of humanity. …except for perhaps the present-day Swedes.

  17. Elise says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 3:21 am

    One would think the British would have learned their lesson about the fear of appearing anti Muslim, after refusing to admit that over a thousand girls were raped and forced into prostitution. It is truly evil that someone would look the other way when “lower class” girls or any girls are raped because they are afraid of appearing anti Muslim. This idiotic class system in Britain and the fear of annoying Muslims shows the world what Morons the Brits really are. Social workers were supposed to protect these girls and young women, it’s their job, yet they bowed to the evil Muslims. They are so afraid that they call them Asians, the British are cowards.

    • Richard Anderson says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 4:28 am

      You are absolutely right Elise, to say I am ashamed of my old mother land is an understatement, although I have retired abroad and my son emigrated to New Zealand, I cannot believe the gross ignorance and stupidity of the UK ‘establishment’. Every thing you guys have said here is true, there is a slight chance, in May next year we have elections and it’s beginning to look like a new party (UKIP) just could get in, they are not anti Muslim, but overflowing with common sense and just could make a difference. If things don’t change soon I actually believe ‘community cohesion’ will be rather more than just threatened! By the way, you guys had better watch your backs, listen to Robert Spencer and others like him and if you haven’t already, read Muslim Mafia by Gaubatz and Sperry!

    • pumbar says

      Nov 11, 2014 at 12:26 am

      So I am a moron and a coward am I? You’re the one posting that anonymously on a blog’s comments section. How intelligent and heroic does that make you?

  18. Robinium says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 4:28 am

    So if the Hungarian Neonazi party “Jobbik” suddenly declared war on Britain, conquered a part of Hungary, murdered hundreds of thousands civilians and forced millions to flee, and if I joined them and came back to Britain…

    …they would try to handle me gently and punish me lightly because they don’t want to “disrupt community cohesion” or “cause anti-Hungarian sentiments”?

    Wow.

  19. emm says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 5:29 am

    First officials says that ISIS has nothing to do with islam. Then they are fearing being anti-muslim or “islamofobic” if going to hard on the jihadis. How to be islamofobic against anything that has nothing to do with islam?

    • Darren says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 11:36 am

      Western leadership or lack thereof reminds me of the scene from Alice in wonderland where she is at the mad hatters tea party. Western leadership is the mad hatters tea party.

  20. fair_dinkum says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 5:45 am

    i said earlier, the english are finding ways to be preemptive in saying sorry.

    what else can we offer you?

    that sort of thing.

  21. tpellow says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 6:13 am

    But dhimmi Cameron-May-Clegg have no fear of banning anti-Islamic jihad Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer from returning to Britain!

  22. Crixus says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 6:23 am

    Please can you cease making generalisations about ‘The British’ when you mean ‘The British Government’.

    2 things here, firstly we are not, as a people sleep walking into submission. There is a huge and growing groundswell against this sort of policy by the government at the moment. The primary motivation for this is a national concern with immigration and especially the perception or fact that immigrants are allocated rights and resources beyond those allocated to the indigenous population. On a broader point the recent scandals with the Muslim led child abuse and the failure of multiculturalism has had a huge effect on the public.

    In the last few months the veil of ignorance has been lifted from my fellow countrymen, in recent conversations with those from all sides of the political spectrum there is acknowledgement that our freedom of speech and society has been undermined by oversensitive PC attitudes towards Islam. The threat of islamisation by stealth has been spotted by the general public and is being questioned. Why do I know this?
    The number of articles on this site and others that highlight the issue, these are being picked up by the national press in the UK and papers like the Mail and the Telegraph (right wing populist and right wing professional) are now asking some awkward questions and, the mail in particular is no longer pulling its punches viz the question. Yes we are still seeing newspeak and yes we are still seeing a default to PC behaviour but this is because of ingrained habits and also criminalisation of criticism of Islam. People are worried about going to prison BUT they are also asking why the fvck you won;t be arrested for tearing up a bible in Trafalgar Square wheras you would be for doing this to a Koran.

    Britons may be divided along political lines but the one thing we share is an overdeveloped sense of fair play and if the rules are seen to be loaded in favour of one, once the country is aware of it, then it typically ends up being redressed.

    It’s difficult for North Americans to understand how this works in the UK. Even Robert doesn’t get it. You have to appreciate the following:
    Firstly there is no written constitution in the UK, no Bill of Rights. There is nothing guaranteeing our freedom of speech. Now the reason for this is that the establishment of democracy in this country was a slow process that took centuries, and not a declaration of independence or political intent. The democracy has been on the whole pretty stable over the last 200 years or so so there has not been deemed the need for this. Our constitutional monarchy means that our state is a series of paradoxes. Our Queen is head of state and on paper is very powerful but in reality has no power. We are officially subjects and not citizens although we are effectively citizens. Our governments are appointed by the monarch although they are in reality appointed by the people. Now this system works pretty well and has to date, it has some real advantages for example the loyalty of the armed forces and the judiciary is to ‘The Crown’ rather than the government. The crown is an idea rather than a political entity, this gives us a politically independent armed forces and judiciary and is the basis that underpins our democracy and protects us from the government. Essentially the rights and ‘constitution’ rather than being enshrined in law is protected by a gentleman’s agreement between people, monarch and government. the latter two understanding that if they push it too far then expect ‘Hello Mr Cromwell’ and that civil war resulted in the death of 20% of the population.

    However, this system is, in the views of many of us, no longer fit for purpose. Successive governments in recent years have gone over the top with legislation and it has become the new political culture. Between 1997 and 2007, when Blair and Brown were in power the government brought in more new laws than were written between 1945 and 1997. People have woken up to the fact that May and her predecessors have brought in laws that are bad laws, that undermine our democracy and the one on ‘offending’ people is frequently criticised which is why there have been such a low number of convictions. The arrest of Paul Weston for ‘racial hate speech’ when he quoted Churchill attracted a great deal of criticism and anger especially as it was during the hustings for an election. The police, realise that they are losing the confidence of the public. Police in the UK is regional and different forces are interpreting this law in different ways again, showing how poor the law actually is.

    Since the late 1970’s we have been governed by ministerial decree rather than by parliament. Most legislation is introduced before it is debated, if ever. This is due to the volume of business but it is BAD for democracy.

    You can tell there is a problem with our system by how out of touch the government are with the people of this country, and by government I mean the Westminster Political Classes across all the parties. This was highlighted in the huge shot across the bows they got during the Scottish referrendum that very nearly saw the break up of this country. Those divisions are not just a nationalist thing, the nationalists in Scotland only gain a majority when there is dissatisfaction in the country with Westminster leadership. The Scottish parliament being a relatively recent institution voted for by proportional representation (unlike Westminster) is a far better barometer about political engagement than the UK parliament is. Westminster have finally woken up to this and there is broad acknowledgement that the system is and has been broken for some time.

    This has obviously only come to light through its inability to cope with situations, the financial crisis and islamification are the two most obvious examples of this. The economy of the 1997-2007 period, when this rot set in, was pretty strong and people with full bellies don’t make a fuss. For the last 7 years this is very different and the indicator for this is the huge numbers who voted and registered to vote in the Scottish referendum.

    It is taking a while but the British people are aware of the issue and this will be reflected in civil and political unrest unless the government deals with the issue, and at the heart is the lack of representation of the people, the people will respond.

    The second major point which North Americans don’t get is to apply analysis of our political spectrum wit the same spectacles as they examine their own. It is very different. The UK is probably one of the most secular states in the world if the faith of individuals is examined. There is no right, conservative wing like you have in the states because there is no conservative christian political body and hasn’t been for nigh on 150 odd years. The reason why atrocities vs Christians don;t get picked up on is that, despite the state religion, the UK is a secular country. There is a fundamental lack of knowledge about religion. People don’t know their scripture because they are atheists, agnostic or non practicing Christians. Outside Northern Ireland you wouldn’t get a Pastor like Robert running political commentary site like this. People in Britain tend to see ALL religions as the same, those who practice them are tolerated with amusement but seen as being ‘cranks’ or ‘a bit odd’. ‘Happy Clappy’, ‘Bible Thumper’, ‘God Squad’ are prases that are commonly used to describe Christians especially evangelical Christianity. This attitude comes from Anglicanism, remember that, unlike the Baptists, Church of Scotland etc. Christianity in the UK is largely an episcopal affair. There is no ingrained tradition of basing faith on scripture. remember, that’s why you lot jumped on the Mayflower in the first place.

    Scripture and the basis of living ones life by it is seen as very odd here, very ‘Ned Flanders’. There is no tradition of mainstream examination of scripture and because we do not acknowledge christian scripture in a political context, we apply that basis to everyone else as well. Therefore the reason why most people don’t link Muslim Jihad with the Koran is that most people are incredulous that anyone could be so unenlightened to base their life on the scripture in a book written 1400 years ago. It simply does not compute. They therefore think that BY extending these people freedoms they will simply become enlightened, ignoring the fact that we all understand, that is that OUR values are not THEIR values (as concisely pointed out by the Archbishop of Mosul recently).

    You can see this in the USA, betcha the parts of the States where the Islamic threat is not understood or dhimmitised will be in the coastal cities and secular parts of the country? It’s the same here but it’s national because, apart from in Northern Ireland and in parts of west Scotland, we have a secular country. The reason why we have this problem is because we are now a secular country if not a secular state. This is broadly the reason across Western Europe. People don’t see the threat because they cannot conceive that a rational human being would seriously base their whole life around a book.

    To tackle Islam effectively in the UK and Europe it cannot be done through Christianity or other religions as it can be done in other parts of the world. The only way to tackle it here is to educate people that there are those out there who seriously do believe the nonsense in the Koran and will happily lay down your life and theirs because they believe it. At the same time the best defence against the islamification is to attack the attacks on equality in our culture, the ‘one rule for mulsims one for everyone else’ is the gaping weakness in the whole structure of islamification by stealth. Now Britons have never been ‘scripture’ Christians but their fundamental creed is an over developed sense of fair play. Elevating one part of society above another simply because they have a book and believe in Mumbo Jumbo is in direct opposition to the rules of Cricket and no matter how much the apologists and progressives desire this, us plebes sordida will not tolerate it for a minute.

    This is also why criticism of Islam from people like Robert and this site is so easily written off as extremism. Britain First, the anti Islam right wing party is tiny in the UK. One of the reasons why is that it is unashamedly Christian in it’s mission statement. Secular Britain doesn’t acknowledge that Christian fundamentalism and Islam are any different. When Robert attacks Islam it is seen as a crank right wing attack of a swivel eyed bible basher. That is the perception. Now we are never going to change that perception here. The attack on Islam HAS to be directed through the inequalities of recent legislation giving the muslims enhanced rights, the attack on the laws that attack our freedom of speech AND the attack on Sharia as alien to our secular culture.

    To conclude, I’m concerned with the threat in the UK but I am not of the opinion that we are ‘walking blindly into dhimmitude’. Quite the contrary. The main difference is that the threat MUST be tackled in a secular way that focuses initially on our freedom of speech and debate and THEN Islam needs to be examined. Doing it the other way round will simply play into the progressive and the besuited Jihadists.

    • Crixus says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 6:30 am

      hands. (missed the last word)

    • ECAW says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 6:40 am

      Excellent analysis Crixus. Very well said!

    • Judi says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 9:55 am

      Crixus – good comment!

    • voegelinian says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 12:10 pm

      “It is taking a while but the British people are aware of the issue and this will be reflected in civil and political unrest unless the government deals with the issue…”

      This implies that there is no spectrum between apathy and violent revolution. Surely, before one feels the need to go down the road to “civil and political unrest” one can muster a Million Man March on Downing Street. The fact that there has been nothing like that is one of many things that indicates to me that the problem is, in fact, the British People as well as the British Government, and not One or the Other.

      And if anyone thinks I’m picking on Great Britain, I observe pretty much the same thing for every damn country in the West remaining pleasantly myopic to this problem of metastasizing Mohammedans — from New Zealand to Canada, from France to America, from Australia to the Netherlands, from Spain to Greece, from Norway to Italy; well, you get the picture…

      • cs says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 12:15 pm

        I am with you there, I feel a general situation of denial and apathy.

        • AM says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 12:27 pm

          The leaders of the UK (and other countries of Europe) are being spineless and pathetic, and are selling out their people. You must fight for your childrens’ heritage and future. Be proud of your nation, rise up and fight!

          F–k political correctness and thought control! Are the Muslims being politically correct when they disrespect your country, your people, your culture, and take advantage of your peoples’ kindness and generosity? Don’t allow your country to be stolen like this! They must be laughing at the Europeans, who aren’t putting up a fight in the name of political correctness and due to the fear of being called racists!

          This makes me so angry!

    • voegelinian says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 12:21 pm

      “The second major point which North Americans don’t get is to apply analysis of our political spectrum wit the same spectacles as they examine their own. It is very different. The UK is probably one of the most secular states in the world if the faith of individuals is examined. There is no right, conservative wing like you have in the states because there is no conservative christian political body and hasn’t been for nigh on 150 odd years. …”

      The commenter I quote goes on to adumbrate and articulate how Brits don’t have a thriving “Ned Flanders” culture as Americans do. While the commenter reiterates the typical Euro condescension about Americans, it is also pregnant with the typical conceit that is simply and massively inaccurate. Sure, there are Bible Belt Bible thumpers in America, but America is a vast, sprawling nation of over 300 million diverse people, not some giant Prairie of Cowboys and Hicks as Euros would have it. What is amusingly ironic is that every criticism this commenter notes about the supposed American perspective & mentality about religion which the British are supposed to harbor in contrast to their own “secularism” can be found massively among Americans, all over the damn place. Um… the Ned Flanders stereotype mocked at mercilessly for years is an American pop cultural creation — which for decades has been popularly loved by … you guessed it, Americans, from sea to shining sea. That immensely popular show in America, The Simpsons, not only lampoons the typical evangelical Christian in Ned Flanders, but has for years and years mocked Jesus, Moses, God, Christianity, religion, ministers, churches. And The Simpsons isn’t the only show — another wildly popular American show that is even more anti-Christian in its mercilessly wicked humor is South Park. And these two shows don’t even begin to document the massively cheeky criticism of Christianity with which American pop culture is replete and has been for decades. Ironic, isn’t it, that a non-American should superciliously look down on Americans for their provincial, parochial “misunderstanding” of other societies, while in the same breath he so massively misunderstands American culture. Ironic; and not a little hypocritical.

      • Crixus says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 3:53 pm

        oh dear,
        You see my comment has nothing to do with the USA so I’m struggling to understand your gripe.
        At no point in my comment did I state that the US is full of Bible thumping rednecks. What I said was that in the UK there is no tradition of religion and politics. If a political candidate stated that he or she was a creationist they would be laughed out of the hustings (unless muslim). I’m struggling to understand how you interpret THAT as me saying that the USA is some sort of red necked hicksville.

        I would suggest that the conceit you accuse me of here is nothing of the sort. The discussion was not about the US it was about the UK. You have decided to turn it round and apply it to the US with some degree of paranoia which is bordering on conceit yourself.

        Please read my posts in the context of the discussion before accusing me of some sort of superiority crap that shows more the chip on your shoulder than anything else.

        • voegelinian says

          Nov 10, 2014 at 6:19 pm

          You implied Americans can’t understand the profound degree of secularism of UK culture. Not only can Americans understand it, they live it. Just because religiosity is often part of American political rhetoric, that doesn’t vitiate that; it in fact goes to show that American culture is more diverse, nuanced and flexible — able to accomodate both anti-religious secularism and various flavors of respect for religion — apparently, than UK culture.

    • Boston Tea Party says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 3:59 pm

      “The reason why we have this problem is because we are now a secular country if not a secular state. This is broadly the reason across Western Europe. People don’t see the threat because they cannot conceive that a rational human being would seriously base their whole life around a book.”

      **
      I think you’ve accurately identified the source of the problem. But your solution is to now double down on this secularism? Granted, I’m a crazy American Christian, but historically speaking the very concepts of secularism, the separation of church and state and individual civil liberties grew virtually exclusively out of Christian civilization, and were upheld by a Christian people. In our Constitution and Declaration of Independence, the underlying philosophy is that our individual liberties were granted by God, and it’s not within the power of the government to infringe upon them. When you don’t believe in God, that removes quite a restraint from the government. You call the philosophy of modern Europe “secularism”, but I would give it a different name: materialism. And it’s not even a martial, idealistic materialism, like Communism was—it’s a squishy, selfish, hedonistic, vaguely pacifistic materialism—one that was largely nurtured in the historically anomalous post-war bubble of peace and security provided by US military hegemony. You think this modern, shallow, brittle ideology of comfortable materialism is going to be able to stand up to Islam, AND be strong enough to support liberal rights for the people? I guess it’s possible, but I wouldn’t bet the farm on it.

      • Boston Tea Party says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 4:03 pm

        Or as your countryman G.K. Chesterton noted, “‘When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.'” And “anything,” in this case, is Multiculturalism.

      • deja vu says

        Nov 11, 2014 at 4:26 pm

        Very well said, BTP. You hit the nail on the head.

        I’m reminded of the fact that all once-great empires have eventually corroded away from the inside out of hedonism and complacency. Sadly, the British bulldog long since lost his teeth and his claws, and is far too lazy to even utter a low growl, fed as he has been on nursing his ego and endless celebrity slop to dull his mind and weaken his resolve. He’s so listless that he does not even know what he believes any more, far less have the energy to rise and fight.

        In addition, we have lost our anchor. We live in an age of relative truth. This has seeped into western culture in recent decades, and the virtue of ‘tolerance’ has become elevated to such an extent that we find ourselves unwittingly tolerating the intolerable. For who is to say *what* is intolerable when all values, all beliefs, are deemed equal?

        We are faced with a dilemma now that Islam is in the ascendancy. It has no tolerance whatsoever for ‘diversity’ and other such soft sentiments. It does not appreciate the finer points of Western niceties and the desire to be seen as ‘tolerant’ of other points of view. So how do we defend our beliefs if to do so is immediately dismissed as being intolerant, or worse, bigoted? Having rejected absolute truth in favour of relative truth, we’re seen as having no beliefs or culture worth defending. Sitting ducks for a takeover, then – no convictions to defend our culture, our faith (if we have one) or our nations. Vulnerable, weak, cowardly, is how we’re seen by Muslims who are more than ready to fill the vacuum left by our tender sensibilities and lack of conviction. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

    • Wolfgang says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 7:34 pm

      @Crixus

      You Idiots over there allowed yourselves to be disarmed…………how many millions of law abiding gun owners where there ? , according to Sir Colin Greenwood [ Chief Constable of Yorkshire] there were millions, yet the Brits ever so placidly just complied.

      The leaders get elected on bribe promises at election time[ all politicians do this of course ] , but no one and I mean no one held a gun to the British peoples head did they ?.

      People are too stupid for their own good……is the rough quote, but it fits the same for Canada, USA, Australia.

      People have been so totally brainwashed with the bread and circuses of modern politics that the idea of NOT voting en masse will not ever take effect.

      If it did, then there would be real change. I live in hope.

  23. tpellow says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 7:14 am

    Supplementary.

    UK government puts out welcome mat for returning Islamic jihadists:

    “‘REHAB’ FOR THE EXTREMISTS RETURNING FROM THE MIDDLE EAST.
    “Returning Islamist fighters are being offered ‘jihadi rehab’ instead of prosecution.
    Many of the 300 young men who have arrived back from Syria and Iraq have been offered places on the Government’s counter-radicalisation scheme, known as the Channel programme.
    “The scheme has seen a 58 per cent rise – from 748 to 1,281 – in the number of referrals in the past year as the crisis in the Middle East has grown. Evidence of the softer approach comes despite assurances from Home Secretary Theresa May that terrorist sympathisers will face the full force of the law.
    “She said new legislation should be ready by the end of this month as David Cameron insisted returning jihadis should face ‘criminal investigations and prosecution’.
    “But Whitehall sources say securing evidence of terrorist activities committed 2,000 miles away in Syria is proving difficult.”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2826693/British-jihadist-convicted-gay-hate-crimes-blows-ISIS-suicide-mission-Iraq.html#ixzz3IfPEkCki
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    • noellsq says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 10:47 am

      Sorry rehab does not work and if it does it is a small percentage. Remember true Muslims believe that there is no laws other than Sharia and religion over country. So the returning murders come back to England and insight other Muslims. Terrorists are like warts they have to be cut out. The Muslim faith has some things right. One is to convert or kill . Good by England . Round up all terrorists and people preaching hate and send them back to there respective countries.

      • Darren says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 12:05 pm

        We need to do what Vlad the impaler did. Sending them back isn’t good enough, we need to make them fear us. This nonsense irritates me to no end. We have to spend trillions to protect ourselves, our whole society changed for the worse we are fast becoming an Orwellian police state, if we aren’t there already, we constantly have to worry about innocent people getting killed ect because of cave men who worship a pedophile prophet. F*ck these people a bunch of mad dogs, instead of cowering in fear lets bring fear to them. They want to throw away their humanity well so be it, don’t expect to be treated like a human then.

  24. lester Peoples says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 7:37 am

    Genesis 12:3. I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee:
    God has made it fully Aware that he will curse those that curse the Jew and past history shows this to be true!. How many ‘ites’ still exist today beside Israel {ites}. God has destroyed most All of them. Look at the United States as to how much they have lost; just since they allowed an Islam, Koran believer to become president of this once great nation, that the whole world respected. Since the Balfour declaration England has tried to usurp and divide the land of Israel that God gave to his chosen people–the apple of his eye, the Jew! Gods Word says that He will suffer whoever tries to divide the land God gave to Israel, the only land on planet earth given by God in its named borders, North, South, East, and West in Scripture. When the British had land throughout the world and it was known that the sun never set that wasn’t on British lands. But this has changed since the attitude of England has cursed the Jew and siding with the Islam forces but their decision will haunt them as they continue to follow after Arab infiltration into their land, developing Sharia law in towns they populate. The Brits should have listened to what Winston Churchill once remarked about the Muslim/Islam people! This should have been attended to before the cancer began forming and now fear from leaders feel they have no course but to accept it to maintain order. Little do they realize their necks are in the guillotine awaiting the release of the blade! Let God be true and every man a liar’ You don’t mock your creator God without repercussion!

  25. tpellow says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 9:22 am

    And, despite, or because of, British government’s continuing appeasement of Islamic jihad:-

    “SECURITY SERVICE: TERROR ATTACK AGAINST UK ‘INEVITABLE'”

    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/11/10/Security-Services-Claim-Attack-Inevitable-Cabinet

    • Darren says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 12:12 pm

      That’s my hope the savages overplay their hand attacking soft targets and the world says f*ck this sh*t and decides to deal with the problem once and for all. The right response to jihadist attacks isn’t fear it’s anger and hatred. I think at least in America that spark is still there and if you p*ss people off enough they will react. The Islamic State helped show the world just how savage islam really is, I hope enough and the right people wake up to the threat the death cult known as islam really is. When I see jihadist attacks on the news it p*sses me off it doesn’t terrify me one bit. I wish I could be given the chance to kill these people truthfully, I hope people react the same way I do and maybe western society will finally reach a breaking point, and we can unleash hell on these mad dogs.

    • rage against injustice says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 6:13 pm

      LOL!!!! LOL!!!!! LOL!!!! I swear this britons need to grow a PAIR in order to produce some testosterone and stand up for themselves!!!! Why are they not doing anything against all these nonsense!!!!!! IF YOU WANT TO BE A MAGGOT GO AHEAD, BE ONE!!! JUST DON’T COMPLAIN WHEN YYOU’RE STEPPED ON.

  26. Judi says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 9:43 am

    Myammar is a country that has the right idea:

    http://www.barenakedislam.com/2014/11/10/myanmar-government-tells-one-million-muslims-prove-that-your-family-h

  27. Eunice Cary says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 10:52 am

    Anti-Muslim IS GOOD. Islamophbe IS GOOD. Anti depraved, terrorist Islamist IS GOOD.

    • AM says

      Nov 10, 2014 at 11:12 am

      A really depressing thought is that if they take over the country, they will not respect the christian history ito all the beautiful cathedrals etc and will probably destroy them. For that matter, it will be bye bye pagan Stonehenge too…..

      • Darren says

        Nov 10, 2014 at 12:15 pm

        Every time they have one of those death to the west islam will conquer rallies, england needs to go back to it’s roots, unleash the soccer thugs with pipes and beat these savages to death. I’d pay money to see the brits go back to their more savage roots. You can’t reason with mad dogs, there is only one cure for mad dogs with rabies. I hope as time goes by more people will realize this, hopefully before a nuke goes off in a major city.

      • gravenimage says

        Nov 12, 2014 at 4:48 pm

        AM wrote:

        A really depressing thought is that if they take over the country, they will not respect the christian history ito all the beautiful cathedrals etc and will probably destroy them.
        …………………………….

        They will either destroy them, or they will do *this* to them:

        http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsFs3MzjNN8jN–3ujtayaYC0ZPHqQaHCZRTzjYTtU-cJWsKP8pQLXKGIa

        This is the lovely St. Nicholas cathedral in Cyprus—now taken over as the Lala Mustafa Pasha Mosque—which has had one of her elegant bell towers sheared off and turned into a minaret.

        The Muslim hordes did the same to Hagia Sofia, for over a thousand years Christendom’s greatest cathedral.

        But it is *not* too late to save St. Paul’s and Westminster Abbey—not if native Britons act now.

  28. Alarmed Pig Farmer says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 1:24 pm

    UK officials hesitate to prosecute returning jihadis for fear of seeming “anti-Muslim”

    US officials hesitate to prosecute for freedom for fear of seeming like they’re “anti-freedom.” In the name of Net Neutrality, yeah, like in the name of Diversity. In both situation, freedom loses. It’s like a guy I met drinking beer outside the Indianapolis racetrack before the 500 several years ago said, “And the bad part is, ain’t nobody making new freedoms to replace the ones we’re losing.”

    One is a makeover of regimen around a supercluster of computer networks, fairly clean surgety. The other is one Moslem at a time, which means messy and troubling and worrisome and pain-in-the-ass and bloody and then fearful and well here we go we’ll transfer some wealth to you to help calm things.

  29. rage against injustice says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 5:38 pm

    LOL!!!! LOL!!!!! LOL!!!! I swear this britons need to grow a PAIR in order to produce some testosterone and stand up for themselves!!!! Why are they not doing anything against all these nonsense!!!!!! IF YOU WANT TO BE A MAGGOT GO AHEAD, BE ONE!!! JUST DON’T COMPLAIN WHEN YYOU’RE STEPPED ON.

  30. blameitonthemoonlight says

    Nov 10, 2014 at 6:14 pm

    Robert Spencer
    November 10, 2014 at 10:38 am

    “I have no friends and allies in Britain, and will not make any attempts to cultivate any now or at any time in the future.”

    Well, you have readers and supporters and I do hope some “cultivation” is possible in the future.

    In Britain we do not yet have a group that is appealing or smart enough to lead a concerted and intelligent campaign against the jihad being waged against the UK.

    In my personal opinion the British people IN GENERAL do not respond well to political rallies that look like football riots in the making. They have been subjected to many years of football violence, most of which has finally subsided …which is to the relief of pretty much everyone. So, understandably the GENERAL PUBLIC does not respond well to events that to the “untrained eye” can look like a football riot in the making. If a peaceful counter Jihad demo looks like a football riot then it’s easy for your opponent to persuade the GENERAL PUBLIC not to support you. It’s really rather simple and it’s what happens every single time with the EDL as far as I can tell. Of course with help from the obligatory Islamic balaclava wearing “anti fascists” fanning the flames to get their desired result filmed on camera.

    Rocket science this is not.

    We need a British Robert Spencer.

    One has definitely yet to appear.

  31. KiwiKaffir says

    Nov 11, 2014 at 5:03 am

    What about Paul Weston, it sounds like he has the goods!

    • Robert Spencer says

      Nov 11, 2014 at 9:47 am

      Yes, he is first-rate.

  32. dumbledoresarmy says

    Nov 11, 2014 at 10:14 pm

    I refuse, absolutely refuse, to engage in any kind of “wetblanketing”.

    Yes, the situation is grim.

    Nevertheless, I think there are small signs of hope here and there and these should be encouraged…not stamped on or dismissed out of hand.

    For example: there is the redoubtable Gavin Boby and his Law and Freedom Foundation, soldiering away, opposing the proliferation of mosques (and also publishing an excellent report on the “grooming gangs”, entitled “Easy Meat”, that can be downloaded and then placed, firmly, on the desks of any number of people).

    Advice to any British person, perhaps new to this site, who has just read through this thread and may be feeling downhearted: if you don’t know about Boby and what he does, go to his website. Then…**join up**! Get on board. Even if only as a financial supporter and writer of letters to officialdom..over and over and over and over.

    http://lawandfreedomfoundation.org/

    Paul Weston and Liberty Great Britain have already been mentioned. Nothing to stop you getting involved with him as well. I’ve seen a couple of his videoed speeches. He’s a good man and a brave one.

    Something else to think about: cultural reaffirmation and networking.

    Join the “Royal Society of St George”…and then you will have the perfect excuse for flying the Cross of St George outside your residence or business – the Society has a *campaign* going to encourage people to do just that – and nobody will be able to twit you for it (or if they do, you can point to your membership of the Society and invite them to take up the matter with Her Majesty, who is the official Patron of the Society). Muslims *hate* the display of the Cross…so you can implicitly declare your neighbourhood a Dhimma-free zone.

    http://www.royalsocietyofstgeorge.com/

    http://www.royalsocietyofstgeorge.com/other_premises.htm

    Muslims wear their “gang uniform” to fly the flag of sharia; well…think of *your* flying of the flag as a direct challenge to that, a visible challenge to the Islamoforming of Britain.

    The thing is that if you join a society like The Royal Society of St George, you can “network”. You may well find others who are already aware; and you may be able to “wake up” more people.

    Another group to watch and perhaps do things with are the British Pakistani Christians, a small body but feisty and determined.

    http://www.britishpakistanichristians.co.uk/

    They have held protests outside Downing St and outside the Pakistani High Commission in London; rallying on behalf of poor Asia Bibi, a Catholic Christian in Pakistan who is on death row under a charge of “blasphemy” for having said Jesus was a better person than Mohammed. The British Pakistani Christians have got a petition going: they are asking the British Government to *stop* giving “aid” to Pakistan, by way of applying some leverage on behalf of Asia Bibi and against Pakistani’s ugly sharia-based blasphemy law. The prospect of stopping “aid” (i.e jizya) to Islamic Pakistan is a project that ALL Islamoaware Britons can get on board with.

    Even if you’re not a Christian at all, going along to their rallies and protests and signing their petition – and writing letters to politicians – and taking part in their campaign is a great way of getting out there and letting the politicians know that you care about freedom of conscience and freedom of speech. And you can form alliances and “network” …and raise awareness with the general public about the way in which Islam anywhere suppresses human freedom.

    If you *are* religious, you can check out The Barnabas Fund, founded by an ex-Muslim, Patrick Sookhdeo.

    http://www.barnabasfund.org/

    His book “Islam in Britain” exposed the “islamoforming” of Britain long before anyone else was aware of the problem. (They’ve also done a booklet on Islamification called “Slippery Slope” – recommended reading for *everybody*, not just Brits).

    Barnabas Fund put out an information booklet called “What is Sharia?” which costs just a dollar to buy from their website. It’s nice and clear and coolly factual and a good way of informing people – such as politicians and religious leaders – about just how awful sharia (orthodox Islam) actually is. Get it by the sackful and share it around. Give one to your MP.

    Barnabas has a project called “Operation Nehemiah”, specifically for Christians.

    http://www.barnabasfund.org/AU/Act/Campaign/Operation-Nehemiah/

    But they also run general awareness-raising and lobbying campaigns. As you can see, under the link for Operation Nehemiah, there is a section entitled “Does Your MP Support Halal Labelling?”.

    They have done a lot of work opposing the “halal-ification” of British food; this is a campaign that secular people could *join* and *support*, because Barnabas’ main argument is that people must have the choice, that halal must NOT become the unlabelled norm for food or anything else.

    Sookhdeo has written a book about sharia finance – “Understanding Sharia Finance” – that I highly recommend; a good book to give to any contacts you may have in the business/ finance area, because it shows how sharia finance is an “entering wedge” for Islamification and very likely a means of “money laundering for Jihad”. Every treasurer in every non-Muslim country needs that book on his or her desk; it might lead them to be less eager to promote “muslim finance” in their countries.

    Another counter-jihad website which has more of a European and British focus, that you mightn’t have come across, if you are new to the topic:

    http://www.newenglishreview.org/

    There *are* things happening. Find the other people who have woken up, get together with them, find out what is already being done, help it to happen some more; and work away at waking up *more* people, so there will be more of you.

    An account of a small Infidel campaign that recently took place in Manchester is described here;

    http://jewishmediaagency.wordpress.com/2014/11/04/manchesters-third-intifadists/

    They confronted and eventually faced down and wore out the jihadis and their useful idiots, who had been attacking a Jewish / Israeli shop in the usual despicable fashion. Read how the resistance did it. Be inspired.

    PS – If you *are* religious – and even if you’re not – look up a traditional British custom called “Beating the Bounds”. I think it offers all sorts of possibilities re reclamation of Infidel “turf”. Use your imaginations!

    • Mirren10 says

      Nov 12, 2014 at 3:59 pm

      Speaking of Gavin Boby, he’s also written an *excellent* and very thought provoking book: ”Life Without Politicians: Preserving Freedom after the State Collapses.” It’s available on Amazon.

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