This is very good news. It is excellent that Danish state TV, Danmarks Radio, truthfully notes that the opposition to Islam comes from the middle of society. The journalist’s claim that Germany is heading for a “Right turn” is not true. Being against Islam has nothing to do with being Right-wing. Actually, criticising religions and defending women’s rights and the right to speak one’s mind, no matter how much it may offend or be against the public consensus, used to be Left-wing. When talking about Left and Right in politics, it is about how big the state should be (including how high the taxes should be). Left means support for a big state and the state controlling a lot of the citizens’ income through taxes; Right means small state and small taxes. What is also good to know is that both Nazism – National Socialism – and Fascism are Left-wing, since both want powerful states. Anarchists are actually Right-wing.
If I were siding with the sharia or were a politician who had helped sharia advance, I would feel a bit nervous…
Translations by Nicolai Sennels, via 10News.dk (click for newsletter and more exclusive translations):
From Sueddeutsche:
In Dresden, 15,000 people demonstrated for the movement “Patriotic Europeans against the Islamization of the West” (Pegida). The demonstrations against an alleged alienation of the land grows weekly. According to the police, over 5,600 people joined a counter demonstration, “Dresden for all.” Chancellor Merkel condemned the “Pegida” actions – “Germany has no place for propaganda and slander.”
Thanks to Uriasposten for transcription:
Kim Bildsøe Lassen, anchorman: Michael Reiter, you are with me from Dresden. You have been to a demonstration the whole evening. Try to describe to me what kind of people are demonstrating. Is it as the politician here said, mostly neo-Nazis in suits?
Michael Reiter, TV news: Well, I looked very closely, and I saw no suits, I saw a handful of neo-Nazis and German right wing populists. In turn, I saw thousands of ordinary Germans. It was the German middle class who demonstrated today. It was not a bunch of thugs with swastikas tattooed on their necks, and it is thought-provoking that this protest is out of the middle of German society. It has not been seen here in Germany until now. … It can sow the seeds for a German Right turn.
Ha Meshuga says
Achtung baby!!
mortimer says
Hardly. What is happening is that the cultural Marxists (like you) are no longer believed. Their false narrative is that European civilization is harmful, whereas in fact it is the height of human achievement.
Shame on you.
Jay Boo says
.” Chancellor Merkel condemned the “Pegida” actions – “Germany has no place for propaganda and slander.”
———————-
German politicians have a long history of marching in lockstep collaboration with Islam by use of propaganda and slander.Chancellor Merkel needs to break that Islamo-Nazi habit.
We might expect Obama to fly into Dresden soon to rally the Leftists and Muslims for a counter protest.
Salah says
“In Dresden, 15,000 people demonstrated for the movement “Patriotic Europeans against the Islamization of the West” ”
Very good news indeed, but NOT ENOUGH. You’ll need more, much more. How about…the whole population???
The Biggest Demonstration in History:
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-end-of-muslim-brotherhood.html
Jay Boo says
Chancellor Merkel said ““Germany has no place for propaganda and SLANDER.” (of Islam)
President Obama said, “The future must not belong to those who SLANDER the prophet of Islam.”
Hmmmm
somehistory says
And we all know how muslims interpret the word *slander* and what the true meaning is…worlds apart.
mortimer says
Merkel will greatly regret saying that if she doesn’t already. European fought for hundreds of years to criticize religious dogmas WITHOUT FEAR. Germany was the epicenter of the fight. German Protestants (like Merkel) should have the keenest understanding of the right to criticize religious dogma!
Someone close to her should take her to task for opposing our human right to criticize religious teachings that go against our conscience.
JMB says
Modern religious freedom has its origins in Germany as well as Switzerland and Holland, I think of Luther in particular who protested against all that was wrong with the Church of Rome at that time. Protestant Christianity which came about from these protests has possibly been the greatest liberating force in the world since those days. The modern world’s great nations and societies, the USA in particular have been founded on, and until recently, still based on Protestant Christianity.
To NOT protest against Islam is effectively allowing a return to the dark ages.
pumbar says
Umm, John wycliffe and the Lollards? (that’s not a band either).
Peter Buckley says
It’s started…..
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4951/germans-islamization-pegida
Aardvark says
But where is the UK branch of PEGIDA?
I want to join!
dumbledoresarmy says
Perhaps you have to start your own.
Or contact Gavin Boby and/ or Paul Weston and suggest a possible location and theme for a rally along PEGIDA lines.
Right now, we are rapidly approaching Christmas and the weather out, in much of Europe, is going to be pretty unpleasant.
But why not get groups of people together to sing carols?
Or: plan ahead.
Here’s an idea – look up the old British tradition of “Beating the Bounds”.
Once you’ve done that (unless you already know what it is) *think* about how it could be used to “take back the country”…bit by bit by bit. (And the season for the round-the-parish marches that were part of it, is spring – much more congenial weather conditions; and the lead time between now and then is longer, so offers time to plan and network).
The difficulty is working out where to begin.
Paul says
What half-truthful Quatsch. Right wing collectivism is united dogmatically with the left in the belief that one’s life is not one’s own. Thus do they grind their teeth in anger about hostility to military conscription, to high spending on militarism, and even to tax revolts. Further, right wingers are rightly notorious for their earnest cravings for a daddylike government to protect them from every monster under their beds. In fact, it was rightwingers’ profound hostility to the “small state” which made it so easy for Fascists and Nazis to take control of Italy and Germany.
You need to tune out Fox News and its gassy, hypocritical parrots.
Wellington says
Robert Spencer is correct and you are wrong, Paul. Unless one is talking about the extreme right-wing, which I refer to as the reactionary fringe, mainstream folks on the right do indeed want smaller government and fewer taxes. And even with many reactionaries, there is still a desire for less government and limited taxing. As for your term, “right wing collectivism,” I don’t know what you mean by this. Nor can I discern what you mean by the right maintaining that “one’s life is not one’s own,” unless you’re referring to many on the right who are pro-life. If so, I would not characterize those who think life begins at conception in such a way, even though I am pro-choice (though just barely). It’s just that pro-life folks think the fetus, even a very early fetus, has the same rights that a new-born baby has. It’s a “timing thing” actually and not a control-freak matter. After all, I doubt you think that terminating the existence of a two-month old baby is something that should be allowed by the state. Well, ditto for those who are pro-life about a two-month old fetus.
As for some of your other contentions, about right-wingers being angry about military conscription, spending more on the military, and a desire for a “daddylike government,” I don’t know where you got such misinformed ideas. Many on the right are for conscription, far more than those on the left, definitely don’t mind spending more on the military (I mean, for example, look at how many conservatives have criticized Democratic Presidents, especially the one now, for reducing military spending), and, in full Jeffersonian liberal mode (which is to say Reaganesque conservatism), generally think that government is best which governs least. As for your comment about Italy and Germany during the inter-war period, you are aware, of course, that political parties on the left in these two countries during this time definitely wanted more government. For instance, the Social Democrats under someone like Friedrich Ebert, first President of the Weimar Republic, wanted a protective, larger state, never mind the Communists further to the left who, in typical communist mode, wanted to drown Germany with government.
Finally, your snarky comment about Fox News reveals more about you than you realize. In short, Paul, I’ve got to tell you, you got most everything wrong.
Huck Folder says
A Paul ing Quatsch
shrugger says
You are aware that Leftism is a mental disorder, right? They have the unpleasant tendency of projecting themselves onto everyone else around them. Claiming that anyone and everyone is to blame for what they themselves are guilty of. We’ve just witnessed a prime example of this.
Arthur says
Always nice to see Wellington’s historically referenced facts formulated in clear, proper English. Half of the rants people post on this site are unintelligible.
pumbar says
I think he’s trying to describe individualism vs collectivism, unfortunately he did a very bad job of it and made a complete fool of himself. individualism believes that human beings have certain inherent rights and liberties. Collectivists do not believe this, they believe that humans only have rights because society has provided them. Hence collectivists like lots of government and individualists don’t.
If you go here; http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/collectivism?s=t and have a look at the synonyms for collectivism it makes for interesting reading, even more interesting are the antonyms.
Peter Buckley says
As I’ve said before, Islam has already “lost” in terms of how Europeans view it:
Only 13 percent of Germans completely disagree with the PEGIDA anti-Islam demonstrations. 75 percent agree fully or to some degree.
http://10news.dk/only-13-percent-of-germans-completely-disagree-with-anti-islam-demonstrations-75-percent-agree-fully-or-to-some-degree/
We now patiently wait until mainstream politicians reflect the popular view. It is simply a matter of time…..
Darren says
It’s a start, though it is no surprise, the German people are some of the most industrious and intelligent people in Europe, and the world for that matter. I think Germans know a Nazi ideology when they see one, and would rather not go back to that place.
Paul says
National Socialism – and Fascism are Left-wing…
Indeed.
Non sequitur. Right wingers, too, want powerful states. They demonstrate this in many ways, e.g. through reverence for cops and soldiers, through their sympathy for military conscription (a type of slavery), and in other ways. The Nazis’ and Fascists’ status as leftists has far more to do with their commercial policies, their Keynesianism, and their welfare statism.
Nein. Anarchists are anticollectivist by definition, and right wingers are collectivists as if by birth and genetic predisposition.
Tune out Fox News. It keeps your thoughts in the chains one-dimensional thinking about political organization. Instead, do something heretical like learning one of the many proofs that no god, not even Jacob’s, could make a list of all prime numbers. It would not hurt, either, to refresh your memory of Pythagoras’ theorem about hypotenuses. It’s good mental training in its own right, and relevant in subjects such as astronomy, too.
Darren says
As someone who believes in the ideal of Anarchism though knowing that due to human nature true anarchism is impossible, since you need some semblance of centralization to protect your society from predators I disagree that Anarchism is right wing. We actually believe in as decentralized government as possible. Think of Yin and Yang, with decentralization being Yin and Yang being centralization. Also those who are Anarchists (not the idiots burning stuff that isn’t Anarchism despite what the media says) are more libertarian in nature and believe in being left alone in peace.
Anarchism gets a bad rap due to people not even understanding what it is and mislabeling morons who burn and smash things as Anarchists. True Anarchists understand that decentralization acts as a check and balance on power. This is why the founding fathers of the U.S were geniuses. They understood human nature, and knew true Anarchism was impossible, but also understood that dencentralization was a superior to a centralized state, so they created a decentralized government combing both the needed centralization for self defense and society and decentralization of government. The ideal America was founded on is Anarchism. This is no longer the case due Federal power crushing states rights, one of the consequences of the dictator Lincoln’s assault on states rights.
MKG says
Darren, your dialog on anarchists is interesting and informing. I have been trying to understand the anarchist point of view for some time. What confuses me most about anarchists is how they ally themselves with communists, that is from the point of view that local commune living might be more appealing to anarchists than nation wide communism. A difference between local and state government, and federal government.
Darren says
I don’t get why the so called Anarchists align themselves with the communists, considering communism and statism are the opposite of decentralization. I must be the odd ball person who believes in the ideal of anarchism while knowing a true anarchist society just like a true ideal libertarian society would be utter chaos. I simply believe in as much decentralization as possible while still maintaining a civilized society due to as Lord Acton said absolute power corrupting absolutely.
I believe the ideal America was founded on was this as well, as evidenced by how much time was spent on trying to have a system of checks and balances on power not to mention letting the states govern themselves. Like anything though given enough time human nature will corrupt any system, hence the reason the fail safe was built into the system regarding the 2nd amendment and that famous quote about watering the tree of liberty. I’m not advocating revolution on this site, I’m simply stating that I think the founders of the country knowing human nature as well as they did built the whole 2nd amendment as a way to reformat the hard drive so to speak. I could be wrong this is simply my opinion.
I also feel the more decentralized a society is the more it brings out human ingenuity and creativity not to mention like in any monopoly whether it be in business or government monopolies are never good for the customer. The more centralized a society becomes the more conformist it is as well and the more it stifles the human spirit, in my opinion. As to the whole commune thing, I believe in individuality. I never understood the whole appeal of the commune lifestyle, but to each his own. I have both heavy libertarian leanings and anarchist leanings, so maybe I’m a hybrid of the two and not a true Anarchist, though a true anarchist society would be a nightmare, I simply recognize that no society will be ideal due to human nature no matter how good it sounds on paper. So if you go outright idealism and try to implement that utopian vision despite your intentions you will end up in a place you don’t want to be as a society. I guess finding the proper balance is the key.
Western Canadian says
And again this moron insults the truth with his pathetic examples of projection (Freud did manage to get a few things right……. and this moron Paul gets NOTHING right!!!)
Arthur says
Right-left-up-down-in-out-forward-backward—-whatever! I think the directions which are relevant here are TOWARD Islam and AWAY from Islam. After studying the Koran and Islam for a while, the necessity of referenced scholarly arguments gives way to the simple, efficient conclusion: AWAY from Islam is the direction I want to be going.
chase says
Right wing- left wing- they both belong to the same bird…and the bird is corrupt.
Rob Crawford says
The only people who have called for conscription in the US since it was stopped are left-wingers. Charlie Rangel is a prime example.
Respecting people who do the dirty, dangerous jobs necessary for civilization is not militarism, it’s how you get people to do those dirty, dangerous jobs.
Kevin Walker says
Could we see such ‘real’ freedom marches (Anti-islamization demos) in our countries???
I hope we Canadians & Americans wake up sooner to take back our countries & revive our culture.
pongidae rex says
One must look all the way back to August 1914 to find a generation of European political leaders as clueless as those currently in power.
Just as interlocking security agreements led directly to World War I in 1914, arguably the single greatest catastrophe in Western history, so immiigration and refugee policies of 2014 based upon the repudiated political fad of ‘multi-culturalism’ are leading relentlessly to social chaos in Europe.
The earth is grossly overpopulated and thus the violent collapse of overpopulated regions. For Europe to pretend that it can take the excess populations of the middle-east and Africa is admirable, but delusional. No one is asking, at what cost to future generations of Europeans. No one.
No nation state is morally obligated to commit cultural and racial suicide.
Rob Crawford says
The world is not over populated. Malthus was as delusional and wrong as Marx.
pongidae rex says
If you think there is going to be enough food to feed a global population of 10 B people with a global termperatures projected to rise up to 4 deg F by the end of the century, I’d like to know what you have been smoking. Ideology is not science. Belief is not research.
Kepha says
So, what should we do? Exterminate the populations whom even their advocates admit to be “social problems”? Hit Bangladesh with some virulent epidemic to follow up on the next destructive cyclone rather than help one’s neighbor in need?
I wonder about the population question. Decades ago, when I was in Taiwan, I saw posters urging parents to stop at two. Last time I went, they’re urging more births (the population’s median age is going up).
Beatrix says
«Left means support for a big state and the state controlling a lot of the citizens’ income through taxes; Right means small state and small taxes. What is also good to know is that both Nazism – National Socialism – and Fascism are Left-wing, since both want powerful states. Anarchists are actually Right-wing.»
I will not object to you definition of what is left or right (I might even like it by the way), allow me however to add that this is not what most Europeans would use.
Don McKellar says
Correct: this is not Right Wing. Nor is it Left Wing. No, it is LIBERAL THINKING. These people protesting have genuine LIBERAL values. Which means speaking out against all opression from any force, left or right, political or religious. This is what LIBERALS do. REAL LIBERALS, not leftist fascists.
pdxnag says
Anarchists are however prone to killing businessmen such as happened in Spain during their civil war. They then find themselves in the ideologically absurd position of operating the factories where they had just killed the prior managers. Thus the anarchist’s are ideologically bankrupt as the folks who will spend other people’s money (and freedom) until it is gone.
Darren says
There is some truth to that due to human nature sadly, which is why I said why I believe in the ideal of Anarchism As decentralized of a nation state as possible though seems to be the best form of government we can think up of at the moment. How is wanting as much decentralization as possible morally bankrupt? I understand true Anarchy is impossible due to human nature and would be utter chaos, and thus you need some centralization of society to protect people from the predators, and for business purposes but as an Anarchistic nation state is basically what the U.S was originally. Independent decentralized states operating under the umbrella of mutual self defense and co- prosperity. Anarchism and Libertarianism share a lot in common, though both ideals are impossible to fully carry out due to human nature. Centralization also stifles human ingenuity and creativity, since centralization leads to conformity and stagnation. One of the reasons islamic society lags behind in science, is partially due to the conformist nature of islamic society itself in my opinion.
Darren says
I meant to add no ideal can be truly realized, and sometimes true idealists despite their good intentions can be some of the most dangerous people on earth, due to the uncompromising nature of many true idealists. That’s not to say everyone is like that, but I often find true idealists are very inflexible and uncompromising in their quest for their ideal whatever it may be. This is why a true idealist unchecked in his or her power can lead to disasterous consequences.
Rob Crawford says
Anarchists fall into two camps — Marxists in disguise and deluded children.
MKG says
It is funny how we all try to categorize things as Left or Right. If we get rid of the idea of Left or Right and just see IT for what IT is, our communities will strengthen.
Angemon says
MKG posted:
“It is funny how we all try to categorize things as Left or Right. ”
Without ever bothering to explain what left or right stands for or how whatever it is they’re trying to categorize fits in any of those categories.
Western Canadian says
“It is funny how we all try to categorize things as Left or Right”
We don’t all waste our time doing so. In fact, the terms are less than useless in most situations and political debates……
MKG says
My point exactly.
Know Thy Enemy says
How would we know whether a participant in a political debate is misusing the terms if we ourselves do not correctly understand those terms?
Take the term “Islamophobia” that is so casually thrown around by everyone. Quite a few people fall for this propaganda term, for the simple reason that they do not correctly understand it. The JW’ers otoh thoroughly understand it and therefore- 1) can easily debunk this term, 2) can tell if the person is misinformed/ uninformed depending on how s/he uses it, 3) can tell who is doing propaganda and/or taqqiya.
For this reason it is always a good idea to have a deep [enough] understanding of whatever is being talked about. Just my two cents 😐
c matt says
Maybe by “Right turn” he means “correct turn?”
thomas pellow says
Stop the Islamization of Nations SION) provides the organizational framework for the movement.
No doubt, the European Union’s politbureau in Brussels will attempt to ban such a movement because the Islamization/Eurabia project is so politically important for the E.U political class to impose on the indigenous European people.
celticwarriorcanada says
I’m so inspired and so envious of these brave German working class citizens . If only 15,000 Canadians would get their heads out of multicultural lu lu land and love their freedoms and country enough to rise up and stem the evil dark oilspill of Islamization . Unfortunately many are more concerned about the environment . Wake up Canada !
jay says
I feel for these people, but short of a serious radical change in the powers that be, nothing will stop it. Europe is slowly morphing into the new Lebanon, only on a much more horrific scale. Left or right means nothing in reality, it’s only used to shift politics to being about against the other side inside of for the whole good. The liberals stand on something solely because the conservatives hate it and vice versa. You can’t be a liberal and be for gun rights, you can’t be a conservative and be for abortion; you’re not a true scotsman then and it’s all about sticking to your side. No compromise, no defeat, only pig headed opinions and bickering that never change. Neither camp tolerates much outside of narrow definitions and both have been hijacked by social and religious issues that government shouldn’t even be involved in. And we all pull further and further apart into more and more radicalized groups and opinions, only listening to what we want to hear and loathing the ‘other’. Liberals don’t care about the needs or concerns of conservatives even when 100% valid and the same is true reverse, they don’t care about America, they care about their side. /rant
Darren says
I agree, both the right and the left just like the Republicans and Democrats have many conformists in their ranks. If you are for a liberal idea while also being for a conservative idea you will be deemed a blasphemer most likely by both sides. I think in the U.S we should form a third party, have the libertarian people, the tea party people, and the working class democrats come to a compromise on certain issues, recognize the corruption in both parties and how the party power structure crushes anyone who wants real reform of the system and form a third party with the hope of achieving real reform.
How can a working class Democrat have anything in common with the dreaded tea party I’m sure Democrats are wondering. If you actually look past the demonization and propaganda, you would be surprised to find that they have more in common than you would imagine. At this point many Democrats as well as many Republicans feel betrayed and for good reason. Capitalize on this come to a compromise and form a third party. I hope this happens. You see how quick the GOP shut down the tea party people, they used the full power of the GOP power structure to crush or silence some of these people who got elected by people who want reform of the status quo. Both sides of betrayed voters need to accept that they can’t get everything they want compromise and wave goodbye to both cartels.
danny says
I am so happy with the concioceness the German people have now concerning Islam. The survival of Europe and global civilization lies with the complete eraducation of Islam from europe.
An a Nigerian, one of the threat to national unity is the northern Nigeria Islamism (aka boko haram), which was primarily set-up (by the muslims) to unsettle the current christian president and distabilize the govt.
The sane world must rise up, in unity, against this cancer (Islam) that have afflicted human beings for over 1400 years.
clifford hall says
There we are then…the PEGIDA flag for freedom. Is there one?
PatnCats says
They only need the FLAG OF THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE – GERMAN FLAG! What could be better than USE OUR OUR FLAGS! Pretty cool huh?
ManchesterLad says
Excellent. Good on the Germans.
I’d hope this sort of thing could happen in the UK but any suggestion of something like this in the past (the EDL) was terminally harassed by the media as being far-right – when it is not a left-right issue at all.
Perhaps the general populations of Europe are starting to get a glimmer of the repugnance of Islam to any civilised society.
PatnCats says
Now this is a great peaceful demonstration – notice how people applaud and listen to the speech? A civilized protest against islamization – which we know means hatred against all who are not muslim. We need more of these all across Europe and the LEADERS TO LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO ELECTED THEM – not foreigners – who don’t pay the bills, only take and then attack their hosts citizens!
Max says
I admire Ms. Merkel, but point out that she herself recently stated that multiculturalism doesn’t work. Hard to see why she would condemn something [PEGIDA demonstrations] that so clearly demonstrates her view on multiculturalism is actually true. Multiculturalism only works when everyone agrees to play be the same rules. Tis not the case in Europe, and specifically Germany and several other countries with growing Muslim populations. This is not to say that there are no Muslims willing to live by Western standards. The problem lies with the ones who come and refuse to do so – play by the same rules. In pro-sports, players who exhibit such behavior are ejected from the game, and rightly so.