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UK: Soldiers told not to yell at or use “insulting words” with terror suspects

Dec 13, 2014 11:25 pm By Robert Spencer

prisoner2“The effect of the ambulance-chasing lawyers and the play-it-safe judges is that we have got to the point where we have lost our operational capability to do tactical questioning. That in itself brings risks to the lives of the people we deploy.” Yes. And as I have said before, many, many people in Britain, as their country collapses into chaos and civil war, will congratulate themselves that they were never for a moment racist — and now that they never for a moment were rude to a jihad terror suspect.

“Don’t yell at terrorist suspects, soldiers told,” by Robert Mendick and Tim Ross, the Telegraph, December 13, 2014:

British soldiers have “lost their capability” to interrogate terrorist insurgents because of strict new rules on questioning that even ban shouting in captives’ ears, military chiefs have warned.

The rules — detailed in court papers obtained by The Telegraph — also prevent military intelligence officers from banging their fists on tables or walls, or using “insulting words” when interrogating a suspect.

The regulations replaced a previous policy that had to be withdrawn after a series of legal challenges and the death in custody of Baha Mousa, an Iraqi detainee in Basra.

But there is growing disquiet within the ranks that the latest guidelines, officially called Challenge Direct, are so stringent that it makes interrogation pointless.

There is also concern that the rules can be so easily breached — especially given the pressure under which soldiers are operating — that military personnel will be left exposed to legal claims and possible disciplinary action.

There was global condemnation last week when a Senate report in the United States disclosed how the CIA had systematically tortured detainees in the wake of the September 11 attacks. Despite this, British military chiefs fear the current restrictions on Army interrogators are hindering the gathering of information. They insist interrogations can be vital in thwarting future terrorist attacks and in combating insurgents in hostile environments.

Col Tim Collins, who made a celebrated eve-of-battle speech during the Iraq war and now runs a private security company with expertise in intelligence gathering, said: “Since I was serving, the rules on interrogations have been tightened up because of the lawyers. We [the military] are no longer able to carry out tactical questioning.

“The effect of the ambulance-chasing lawyers and the play-it-safe judges is that we have got to the point where we have lost our operational capability to do tactical questioning. That in itself brings risks to the lives of the people we deploy.

“These insurgents are not nice people. These are criminals. They behead people; they keep sex slaves. They are not normal people.”

Lord West, the former First Sea Lord and national security adviser, said: “We have gone too far in letting people take us to court.

“While these insurgents are chopping people’s heads off and raping women, the idea they can take us to court because somebody shouted at them is ridiculous.”…

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Filed Under: Featured, United Kingdom, Useful idiots Tagged With: Baha Mousa, Challenge Direct, Col. Tim Collins


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Comments

  1. Champ says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 12:18 am

    Soldiers told not to yell at or use “insulting words” with terror suspects

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Or sudden jihad will ensue …

    • particolor says

      Dec 14, 2014 at 1:53 am

      And Your Mouth will be washed out with SOLVOL !!

    • Bamaguje says

      Dec 14, 2014 at 7:30 am

      Right, yelling counts as “torture.”
      I really don’t understand this suicidal mindset of the politically correct West that places the rights of sadistic Jihadi savages over and above the security of law abiding citizens.
      With this attitude, we will never win the war against Islamic terror.

      • Shane says

        Dec 14, 2014 at 9:32 am

        The left does not want us to defeat Islamic jihad, what other conclusion can you come to? Liberalism truly is a mental disease.

  2. Nicu says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 12:21 am

    Unbelievable ! Muslims insult and terrorize , but the world must be careful not to insult them ? They should see how it is !

  3. mortimer says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 12:24 am

    Western governments have to fight the ideology of political Islam. That means exposing the absurdity of Islam per se.

  4. No Fear says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 12:34 am

    “These insurgents are not nice people. These are criminals. They behead people; they keep sex slaves. They are not normal people.”

    Behead people? Keep sex slaves?

    They sound like Mohammed’s early followers, doing what Allah (i.e. Mohammed) told them to do.

  5. somehistory says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 1:25 am

    “While these insurgents are chopping people’s heads off and raping women, the idea they can take us to court because somebody shouted at them is ridiculous.”…

    ******************************************************************************************************************************
    That one sentence summarizes just how large the beast has grown and how powerful it is.

  6. change watch says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 1:34 am

    This follows on from the long established Rules of Engagement that handcuffs soldiers from taking the initiative in the field by only allowing them to return fire if they have come under ‘effective’ enemy fire.

    To quote from the excellent novel A Consequence of Apathy by NR Baldwin:

    It was obvious that the English Army was a shadow of its former self, compared to the highly-oiled machine which Grant joined two decades earlier.
    His twenty years of service had hand railed the decline of British military might. Now soldiers were hesitant to open fire without consulting their lawyer. Multiple convictions of troops after Iraq, Afghanistan and Jordan resulted in the Government forced to pay out millions to the ‘victims of war’, or terrorist insurgents as the Army might have labelled them. These payments fresh off the back of their redundancies had broken what little morale the Army had left.
    Lawyers quick to exploit the exciting new world of post conflict litigation managed to trace outraged survivors from all the conflicts the army had been engaged in over the past fifty years. For a while, before the Breakdown, the newspapers had been full of pictures of wizened Mau Mau rebels or ex Cypriot AOKA terrorists excitedly waving cheques in their ancient sun browned hands. Their self-righteous crooked smiles masking their surprise as they hobbled down the steps of the Old Bailey passing Iraq and Afghan veteran insurgents walking in. None of them pausing to think of the cruelty and misery they themselves had liberally inflicted upon their victims during the bitter sectarian conflicts they had fought.

  7. Davegreybeard says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 1:35 am

    “There was global condemnation last week when a Senate report in the United States disclosed how the CIA had systematically tortured detainees in the wake of the September 11 attack.”

    This is a goddamned lie, perpetrated by treasonous Democrats, and Diane Finestain specifically, for their own miserable political gain.

    Waterboarding is NOT torture. The CIA got the idea from the U.S. military, which had been using it for years in “prisoner of war” training camps ON OUR OWN TROOPS.

    I gained “up close and personal” knowledge of waterboarding in 1968 in Jungle Warfare Training, prior to my deployment to Viet Nam.

    We are awash in lies from Liberal Democrats designed to weaken our Country – and it seems to be working.

    From “hands up don’t shoot” to our cops are racist killers, to our corporations are out to kill their customers, to America got rich from stealing from poor countries, to America tortures people – the lies go on and on, seemingly without any effective challenge.

    How long can survive as a free nation, when we allow mountebanks and demagogues to rewrite reality and our history?

    • gungadin says

      Dec 14, 2014 at 6:26 am

      I’m in my 7the decade of life…..I’m an old man to some….. I remember a time in America when commies and their brethren were vilified and removed from polite society. Now they’re embraced and are professors in academia from coast to coast. I feel badly for my grandkids because political correctness is slowly eroding society……..damn shame; this world used to be a much better place…

    • Bamaguje says

      Dec 14, 2014 at 7:42 am

      “There was global condemnation last week when a Senate report in the United States disclosed how the CIA had systematically tortured detainees in the wake of the September 11 attack” – Telegraph.

      Rubbish!!
      I am not aware of any “global condemnation”… Just the expected pretentious noises by the usual loudmouths (human rights groups, UN etc).
      Most people have the common sense to realize that when dealing with sadistic Jihadi savages, some form of enhanced interrogation is necessary to protect ordinary law abiding folks from terrorism.

  8. Salah says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 2:21 am

    “British military chiefs fear the current restrictions on Army interrogators are hindering the gathering of information.”

    Hindering the gathering of information? That’s PRECISELY the aim of every single PC leader in the West; they don’t want us to gather any useful information, they don’t want to defeat ISIS, they don’t want to win the war against islamic jihad, they all have one goal and one goal only: OUR DESTRUCTION. They’ve been paid to do just that. And we’re letting them do it.
    We deserve what we get.

  9. Ernie says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 2:36 am

    Murdering , raping , pillaging , torturing , enslaving etc. . All these activities show no respect for human values .” People ” engaging in these sorts of behaviour have seperated themselves from beïng (a) part of Humanity . And should be dealt with accordingly . Jihadis and their supportsystem should be subjected to whatever is needed for US , HUMANS , to SURVIVE . It is WAR ! Fighting a war ( and winning this war ) without getting your hands dirty is impossible .

  10. Coolio says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 3:50 am

    On Friday, I took part in an Internet Radio talk show, “Upfront & Outspoken” on KKRP (with, apparently around 100,000 listeners) where we discussed the CIA torture report.

    The first point of the report was that the ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ used did not actually yield any useful intelligence, and indeed yielded misinformation. When tortured, a prisoner will say anything to get the pain to stop. The techniques were torture, and included waterboarding (feels just like drowning) and keeping prisoners awake continuously for over a week.

    We discussed appropriate levels of violence – such as punching a prisoner in the face while asking where a bomb is planted, and agreed that this is acceptable. So, our soldiers and security services need to be able to use something between kid gloves and brutality.

    Another important point is that this is not a war between the UK/US/Allies and Arabs – it is a unilaterally declated war between orthodox Islam and freedom. So we need to reciprocate by declaring war on orthodox Islam and keeping all captured jihadists in Geneva Convention-standard PoW camps for the duration of the war.

    http://youtu.be/AhcmHRGzJF4

  11. dumbledoresarmy says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 5:40 am

    Y’know, I think there’s a spark of life in the old British bulldog, yet.

    I like Col Tim Collins and Lord West. Especially Lord West.

    Presumably he sits in the House of Lords, which is a “house of review”, comparable to the Senate. That means that he has a voice in government.

    Get behind him and PUSH, UK jihadwatchers. Have a go at finding out just how much he knows or suspects about Islam. Educate him some more. Encourage him.

    He’s not the only one – you’ve got Baroness Caroline Cox. You’ve got Lord Pearson, Earl of Rannoch.

    Support them!

    Write them letters.

    Let them know; encourage them to be bolder and louder.

    You need to be tracking every single one of your Peers, every one of your MPs, to see which ones still have signs of fight left in them, glimmerings of commonsense. Additional clue: those who have been known to publicly express real support for Israel are likely to prove educable.

    Then: work on those folks.

  12. Angemon says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 6:55 am

    British soldiers have “lost their capability” to interrogate terrorist insurgents because of strict new rules on questioning that even ban shouting in captives’ ears, military chiefs have warned.

    The rules — detailed in court papers obtained by The Telegraph — also prevent military intelligence officers from banging their fists on tables or walls, or using “insulting words” when interrogating a suspect.

    Right, serve them some tea and crumpets and politely ask them where the bomb is… Good grief!

  13. dumbledoresarmy says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 6:56 am

    The main difficulty, of course, when interrogating a jihadi (or any person associated with a jihad plot, for that matter) is this: you’re trying to interrogate someone who lies and uses half-truths and doublespeak as naturally and easily as breathing. Further: you’re interrogating not someone who has a clear sense of a line between “what is” and “what is not” the case, but, rather, someone who operates by a shame/ honour paradigm, whose entire *life* has been saturated with bullsh*t, a person brought up to be a BS artist i.e. to make stuff up “on the fly”, whatever they think will work just long enough to get them what they want. And even worse: someone who *believes their own BS*, their own madhattery.

    Good luck on sifting truth from lies when you’re sifting the words fo a Mohammedan. Think about how confusing and crazymaking the Quran is. Now think: how do you decode the words of someone who’s been brought up steeped in *that*?

    Even if you weren’t talking to them in person – even if you were eavesdropping on them when they were talking to other cult members – you couldn’t really be sure that they were even telling the truth to *each other* either!

    The most you could go by would be probabilities.

  14. Truth says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 7:54 am

    The UK has become a nation of sissy boys. A nation of pansies.

  15. clifford hall says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 8:19 am

    I’m not sure about the reference to “ambulance chasing lawyers”. There are firms of so-called ‘human rights lawyers’ who have made a name for themselves in this area. Some are known to take on injustice cases like that of Ched Evans. I don’t think they ‘chase’ any more than criminal lawyers ‘chase’ crime. Critics must forget the effect of the ECHR in the UK which serves to shackle the discretion which judges would otherwise have. If UKIP, DV, achieve what we all hope they will the position will change.

    On torture, there’s nothing new in its condemnation. Francis Bacon was vilified (unjustly) for using it by Lord Macaulay. There is an issue about how effective it is and of what precisely it consists. In standard interrogation practice you run the rough with the smooth. …that’s to say you rough the person up and then bring on the slinky bag of tricks who gives the suspect a cigarette and asks him about his mother. The suspect thinks he’s made a friend and tells from sheer relief. I guess slinky man needs to be dressed as a moslem. BUT one technique is no good without the other…..remembering that death and pain are all for the ‘pie in the sky’ man.

  16. clifford hall says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 8:22 am

    Truth

    What precisely is a “sissy boy” and a “pansy”?

  17. clifford hall says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 8:37 am

    Jihadski

    I see you’ve been exploring the hole in your head this morning.

  18. clifford hall says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 8:49 am

    Poor Jihadski..poor fella thinks he’s Oscar Wilde. Is that REALLY the best you can do? It’s such an obvious remark.

    Now…come on sunshine..instead of throwing insults (which unless you’re brainless, as you seem to be, convinces no one) please explore my remark to which you take exception with all the energy a hole can muster.

  19. clifford hall says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 9:00 am

    Poor Jihadski

    Poor fella…still missing the point.

    Now O Aptly Named…deal with the substance.

  20. clifford hall says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 9:13 am

    All websites are similar. They have their intellectuals and idiots, the cowards and the bully boys…and this place is no exception..

    Yet, as it seems to me, this blog is SO critical that we must all tread with care. Let’s suppose that an undecided person comes on here looking for enlightenment. All he sees are the kind of mindless fanatics we say moslems are, as well, simply, of rather nasty specimens of the human race. He won’t be convinced and the nonsense plays into the hands of the opposition.

    “Drive him off the blog’…’report him to Robert’…..’ass hole”….’scum’ (a favourite of BF) and so on. How does this convince anyone? Well, except yourselves playing with yourselves and asking the world to say ‘Yes. Yes’ in face of a rather tawdry display of little willies desperately trying to be big willies..

    • Angemon says

      Dec 14, 2014 at 9:34 am

      clifford hall posted:

      “Let’s suppose that an undecided person comes on here looking for enlightenment. All he sees are the kind of mindless fanatics we say moslems are”

      “We”? Who made you spokesperson of the JW commentators? Anyway, if an undecided person comes here looking for enlightenment then JW articles should be more than enough to tip the scale, regardless of whatever commentators say.

    • Davegreybeard says

      Dec 14, 2014 at 3:52 pm

      “All websites are similar. They have their intellectuals and idiots, the cowards and the bully boys…and this place is no exception..”
      “Yes’ in face of a rather tawdry display of little willies desperately trying to be big willies..”

      My God Clifford, you the “Big Willie” we all been awaitn’ for?

  21. Joan Abernethy says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 9:14 am

    In Canada, Maher Arar sued Canada for $10 million. I read the 3-volume RCMP report. It defined the “electric torture” he experienced as being placed in a room with electric wires and being afraid they might be used to torture him – it was his fear that was the claimed torture and that his lawyers relied on to claim he’d been electrically tortured. When the Canadian official showed up to “rescue” Arar from Syria, he claimed he had not been tortured, that he had been hit a few times mildly on the hand with a ruler like a teacher might chastise a student. He said the worst “torture” he endured was “being forced to wear ugly shoes”. Instead of wanting to get the hell out of Syria soonest, Arar insisted on taking a diversion from a straight route to the airport to stop at a shoe store so he could purchase a pair of Rockport shoes. Throughout the whole of the flight home, the Canadian official observed no symptoms or signs of abuse or torture and when Arar was physically examined, there were no signs of torture. During the whole flight home, Arar continued to maintain he had never been tortured. It was only once he began to speak with lawyers that the claims were made he suffered torture. He teaches today at the University of Ottawa where, recently, several sworn jihadis who have been radicalized have studied. Sure, the RCMP may have jumped the gun a little. I personally think they may have focused on the wrong Arar, given his wife is also well connected with a PhD in finance from McGill. Arar was not tortured by any reasonable standards, yet he got $10 million from Canadian taxpayers for alleging he was and because he had the means to hire expensive lawyers, he won. Paul Copeland, a Prince Arthur Street lawyer in Toronto, Ontario (a colleague of Ruby, Greenspan, Falconer) told me “the big money these days is in defending those accused by Ottawa of terrorism”. Says it all.

  22. clifford hall says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 10:51 am

    Jihadsky

    Oh dear…you HAVE NOT ADDRESSED THE SUBSTANCE.

    Nor is your point valid. An ‘ambulance chaser’ is an attorney who aggressively seeks out those who need assistance. It is a US way of doing things where the profession is fused. It is an idea basically foreign to the common law system in the UK. Now if you are saying that UK human rights lawyers actively search out so called human rights abuses and alleged abusers and push themselves on them for work in the UK, sorry you have to prove that. There are human rights experts just as there are experts in the criminal law…and it’s in that sense I refer to crime. Some Chambers known to be human rights chambers of course do other work. One such is Garden Court Chambers. But obviously they don’t just do that. Hence the reference to Ched Evans in relation to Garden Court..

    I couldn’t give a monkey’s for the “Colonel’s considered assessment as you seem slavishly to do. Or to put it another way….quot homines tot sententiae.

    I thought you needed to rest? I think you should.

  23. clifford hall says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 10:56 am

    Angemon

    If the cap fits…..in your case it seems to.

    • Angemon says

      Dec 14, 2014 at 11:31 am

      clifford hall posted:

      “Angemon

      If the cap fits…..in your case it seems to.”

      As expected, cliff, like the rest of his ilk, has nothing to say for himself other than baseless accusations. See, he postulated that everyone here claimed that muslims are mindless fanatics and when called on that his answer is… well, you can see for yourselves how nonsensical it is. Burden of prof is upon you cliff – start by linking to a post where I say what you imply I did, and then do the same for every single commentator who ever posted on JW.

      At best cliff is one of those “all religions are the same, stop criticizing islam” brain-dead leftards, at worse he’s a muslim or islamic apologist.

  24. clifford hall says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 11:39 am

    Angemon

    Do stop whining and grow up. Have a nice day boo boo…..Oh and learn to READ in your quiet moments.

    • Angemon says

      Dec 14, 2014 at 12:23 pm

      Awww, the little willy is desperately trying to look like a big willy. It seems that, in cliff’s mind, asking him to back up his blatantly false claim is “whining”. This is quite revealing of his character and goals.

      So, cliffy, how where are those links to back what you said?

  25. Vatandas says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 11:48 am

    Europe in general has lost the fight.

  26. clifford hall says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 11:59 am

    Vatandas

    The Europeans are wising up……see the French mayor and halal, see banning the burka, see the marches in Germany, see the various European right wing movements and their interaction, eg, with the BNP in the UK, see UKIP, see Liberty GB and so on…..And in the US?

    Slogan thinking is too common everywhere….and so is the not unnatural will for a quiet life as it comes to terms with the law of love.

  27. clifford hall says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 2:33 pm

    Angemon

    LOl…”where are those links?”…Gawd a second-hand man.

  28. cheekturner says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 2:40 pm

    Sounds like an episode straight out of Dad’s Army……..”..permission to speak Captain Mainwaring?” or should that be .”….Captain Abu Bakr al Baggydude?”
    Seems more and more like it’s gonna have to be ole Joe going on the rampage in order to shift this shit out of the UK.

  29. clifford hall says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 4:08 pm

    Errrr……Do I detect a sliver of anti-British sentiment creeping into this blog? Now let’s debate that one.

    Cheekturner

    On the subject of shit, have you anything of substance to say? That WOULD be soooooooooooooooooo niceeeeeeee.

    • cheekturner says

      Dec 14, 2014 at 6:42 pm

      cheekturner says
      December 14, 2014 at 6:25 pm

      Yep Cliffy old chap. Why are you such a pompous arsehole? And on the subject of shit watch out for ole Joe.

  30. clifford hall says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 6:24 pm

    Lest the yard fowl tag team – who seem to have remarkably similar DNA’s – have signed off let me make one more point.

    This nonsense began when the Jihad fella said I “took exception” to something the good Colonel said about human rights lawyers. The Colonel is, course, a wonderful self publicist and certainly a good thing. But he is not a lawyer and so approaches the law like Wat Tyler.

    What I actually said was “I am not sure about……”

    Now thing is, if THAT is how words are interpreted and twisted on here it makes you wonder how many other things are twisted and misrepresented and so where truth ends and fantasy begins. I met it too with Jay Boo, was it yesterday? Misrepresentation and taking things out of context is a form of lying. It is certainly unscrupulous. Question is…how deep does it go?

    • cheekturner says

      Dec 14, 2014 at 6:39 pm

      In all honesty Cliff I don’t think anybody here gives a toss what you say or think. And as to being unscrupulous you might question your own reply to my post where you deliberately try (and succeed) to elicit a retort with your pathetic innuendoes. What was it in my post that upset you? Did I malign your latest super-hero or was it that I used the correct analogy for the seething mass of excrement that blights our country? I’ve never had the misfortune to cross swords with you in the past but now it seems the gauntlet has been cast. Assail me once more with no good reason and war will ensue.

  31. cheekturner says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 6:25 pm

    Yep Cliffy old chap. Why are you such a pompous arsehole? And on the subject of shit watch out for ole Joe.

    • cheekturner says

      Dec 14, 2014 at 6:44 pm

      Re-posted in the correct place…just in case Cliff misses it.

  32. cheekturner says

    Dec 14, 2014 at 6:27 pm

    Hey guys who is this deluded creep Cliff? Just another troll? Enlighten me please!

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