I find the denialism of our torture to be outrageous. This abuse of human rights is very unchristian and to make excuses for it or even justify it like Dick Cheney did is absolutely insane to me. What principles do we stand for when we behave like terrorists by torturing people? I thought we had values, but we show just how low we can go when our freedoms and our rights are thrown out the window because of an overhyped fear of terrorism.
Doglickasays
‘Unchristian’ you say? I don’t care about another sky gods morality. What is more immoral is that a god that is supposedly omnipotent and then does nothing to stop the evil being perpetrated in the name of Islam. The appropriate question is, ‘Is it moral?
Is it moral to torture an evil doer in order to save the lives of innocent men, women, and children? Ofcourse it is. Have you heard of Utilitarianism?
You are obviously a left wing Islamic enabling appeaser who is trying to befriend the bully for protection.
By the way, the principles that we, and other men and women that protect and enable you to say the stupid things you do, are based on freedom and liberty, and equality under the law for all.
Doglickasays
Furthermore, were Islamic fundamentalists to get their hands on you, there would be some delightful methods of torture that they would use upon you were they to think you to have some kind of beneficial information. None of which would come close to the ‘watered down’ [pun intended] version of the touchy feely torture employed by the US in the last couple of years. The whole concept of a more inhumane attempt at torture by the US will now become irrelevant as a by-product.
The stupidity of this woman to make these documents public is treacherous, and dangerous to all free states.
Self destructive.
Doglickasays
*Humane – Apologies, it’s early morning.
Angemonsays
chris e posted:
“I find the denialism of our torture to be outrageous. This abuse of human rights is very unchristian and to make excuses for it or even justify it like Dick Cheney did is absolutely insane to me. What principles do we stand for when we behave like terrorists by torturing people? I thought we had values, but we show just how low we can go when our freedoms and our rights are thrown out the window because of an overhyped fear of terrorism.”
From what I can gather, torture was applied to a very small number of top terrorists. One of them, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the man behind 9/11, broke under waterboarding, and gave the name of the courier who revealed the location of Osama bin Laden.
As for the fear of terrorism being overhyped, try telling that to the relatives of the victims killed in 9/11, the fort Hood massacre, the Boston bombing, or in any other islamic terrorist attack.
John Mustart South Africa.says
Are there not a lot of the relatives of those who died at 911 who believe that their own government may have been responsible for perpetrating 911? The truth must come out. Blame Islam for what it clearly is guilty of. There are lots of questions about 911 and many good people in America are trying to bring it out.
Angemonsays
John Mustart South Africa. posted:
“Are there not a lot of the relatives of those who died at 911 who believe that their own government may have been responsible for perpetrating 911? The truth must come out. Blame Islam for what it clearly is guilty of.”
Huh? What “truth” would that be? That the US government, not islamic terrorists, perpetrated 9/11? All “credible” conspiracy theories discard all the evidence of al-qaeda’s involvement, ignore most of physical evidence and cherry-pick a few supposed anomalies. Do you not see the problem with that? Or are you one of those “truthers” whose theories claim something along the lines of “the HAARP project was used to create molecular dissociation, which was what brought the buildings down, not planes”?
Just so we’re clear: do you believe that islam has nothing to do with 9/11?
John Mustart South Africa.says
Thanks for your reply Angemon. I am not saying that Islam had nothing to do with it and I never mentioned HAARP. I spent 50 plus hours poring over the physical evidence and I would have to be blind and dumb to say that certain groups in the USA had nothing to do with it. I think out of the BOX and I am not afraid of the TRUTH. I also think that Political Islam is very dangerous and anti Christ. One little test for you. Prove to me that an airliner slammed into the Pentagon. But you will have to leave your comfort zone and look at all the evidence. The people I have challenged on this issue never come back to me. Will you come back to me. I have an open mind and will be very interested if you can find evidence of a plane. Looking forward to hearing from you.
Angemonsays
John Mustart South Africa. posted:
“I spent 50 plus hours poring over the physical evidence and I would have to be blind and dumb to say that certain groups in the USA had nothing to do with it”
You do, however, seem confident enough to say that the destruction of the Twin Towers is not to be blamed on islam. And so far you have nothing to show to back that assertion. But I am genuinely curious. Were you one of the official investigators who had access to ground zero and debris of the WTC? Or did you spent over 50 hours scouring conspiracy blogs on the internet?
“I think out of the BOX and I am not afraid of the TRUTH.”
Unless the truth is that islamic terrorists drove airplanes into the Twin Towers. Otherwise we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
“One little test for you. Prove to me that an airliner slammed into the Pentagon.”
Textbook deflection and attempt of using the guilty by association (or in this case, innocent by association) logical fallacy. It’s clear that you don’t believe the official version and you’ll try to pass anything you deem minimally inconsistent to raise doubt and, by association, try to raise the doubt about what happened on the Twin Towers, despite all the video evidence showing the airplanes flying into the buildings.
Also, notice that while John is the one doubting the official version and trying to offer a different explanation. As such, he should be the one offering evidence for his claims to us. And yet, he places the burden of evidence on me, requiring that I pass a test. A test which has no significance or relevance to what happened on the WTC on 9/11. Oh well…
John Mustart South Africa.says
Gosh Angemon, I am not sure who you are trying to confuse. You certainly can beat about the bush. You obviously believe NIST’s report with blind faith and do not seem very keen to question it. I can understand that. I did not enjoy coming to my conclusions and I sincerely wish I could have found the NIST report to have been correct. Sadly it is very deceitful and a major cover up. If a plane hit the Pentagon please tell me and give me your sources to prove it. My request is quiet simple. I am not trying to trick you or be unkind. The answer to my request would simply be a starting point to get to the truth. However I think your mind is made up so there is no point in continuing this discussion. I wish you well. Whatever the full truth is it is an American problem. I wish you people well and I sincerely hope you all get to know the full truth of 911 what ever that is. Going into the future we are faced with a rampant and dangerous Islam. This concerns me more. Best regards, John
Angemonsays
John Mustart South Africa. posted:
“Gosh Angemon, I am not sure who you are trying to confuse. You certainly can beat about the bush.”
No, you’re the one beating about the bush while I kept my eyes on the prize. I said that you were trying to cast suspicions on the report of what happened on the Pentagon so you could use the guilty by association fallacy to doubt what happened in the WTC. Which is what you’re trying to do. Heck, you’re not even trying to pretend otherwise:
“The answer to my request would simply be a starting point to get to the truth.”
See? Now, the reason I knew that is not because I have psychic powers and can see into the future. It’s because I’ve encountered plenty of muslims, both online and IRL, who did just that. let ,e guess: you were going to argue that there are things that don’t make sense, like windows not breaking (that’s what blast-proof windows are expected to do), or the hole not having the outline of the airplane (a reinforced concrete building in the real world is not the same as a wooden wall in a Looney Toons cartoon), or saying that there were no physical evidence or witnesses that can confirm that a plane did in fact hit the building (which there are).
“If a plane hit the Pentagon please tell me and give me your sources to prove it. My request is quiet simple.”
Simple but nonsensical. That’s not how things work. If YOU don’t believe the official version then burden of evidence is upon YOU.
“However I think your mind is made up so there is no point in continuing this discussion.”
I agree that there’s no point in continuing this discussion. You made a statement that you can’t substantiate about accessing physical evidence, you give no reason to doubt the official version. Your mind is made up – you want to exonerate islam and blame the US government.
“Whatever the full truth is it is an American problem.”
Huh? Whatever the full truth is? Wait a minute, didn’t you said that “the answer to my[your] request would simply be a starting point to get to the truth“?
I am sorry to say it, but the CIA when they did torture they have put themselves in a bad position. Feinstein was rightly exposing this despicable behavior. Are you happy with torture? The CIA gets away with too much. Wait for it, the truth about 911 will come out fully one day. You can hide the truth from people but not from God. I am a Christian and I follow your excellent work on Jihad Watch. You cannot have it both ways though. It’s bad when Islam (and so it is) does evil deeds and so it is when the CIA does them. All evil must be exposed. God demands it.
chris e says
I find the denialism of our torture to be outrageous. This abuse of human rights is very unchristian and to make excuses for it or even justify it like Dick Cheney did is absolutely insane to me. What principles do we stand for when we behave like terrorists by torturing people? I thought we had values, but we show just how low we can go when our freedoms and our rights are thrown out the window because of an overhyped fear of terrorism.
Doglicka says
‘Unchristian’ you say? I don’t care about another sky gods morality. What is more immoral is that a god that is supposedly omnipotent and then does nothing to stop the evil being perpetrated in the name of Islam. The appropriate question is, ‘Is it moral?
Is it moral to torture an evil doer in order to save the lives of innocent men, women, and children? Ofcourse it is. Have you heard of Utilitarianism?
You are obviously a left wing Islamic enabling appeaser who is trying to befriend the bully for protection.
By the way, the principles that we, and other men and women that protect and enable you to say the stupid things you do, are based on freedom and liberty, and equality under the law for all.
Doglicka says
Furthermore, were Islamic fundamentalists to get their hands on you, there would be some delightful methods of torture that they would use upon you were they to think you to have some kind of beneficial information. None of which would come close to the ‘watered down’ [pun intended] version of the touchy feely torture employed by the US in the last couple of years. The whole concept of a more inhumane attempt at torture by the US will now become irrelevant as a by-product.
The stupidity of this woman to make these documents public is treacherous, and dangerous to all free states.
Self destructive.
Doglicka says
*Humane – Apologies, it’s early morning.
Angemon says
chris e posted:
“I find the denialism of our torture to be outrageous. This abuse of human rights is very unchristian and to make excuses for it or even justify it like Dick Cheney did is absolutely insane to me. What principles do we stand for when we behave like terrorists by torturing people? I thought we had values, but we show just how low we can go when our freedoms and our rights are thrown out the window because of an overhyped fear of terrorism.”
From what I can gather, torture was applied to a very small number of top terrorists. One of them, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the man behind 9/11, broke under waterboarding, and gave the name of the courier who revealed the location of Osama bin Laden.
As for the fear of terrorism being overhyped, try telling that to the relatives of the victims killed in 9/11, the fort Hood massacre, the Boston bombing, or in any other islamic terrorist attack.
John Mustart South Africa. says
Are there not a lot of the relatives of those who died at 911 who believe that their own government may have been responsible for perpetrating 911? The truth must come out. Blame Islam for what it clearly is guilty of. There are lots of questions about 911 and many good people in America are trying to bring it out.
Angemon says
John Mustart South Africa. posted:
“Are there not a lot of the relatives of those who died at 911 who believe that their own government may have been responsible for perpetrating 911? The truth must come out. Blame Islam for what it clearly is guilty of.”
Huh? What “truth” would that be? That the US government, not islamic terrorists, perpetrated 9/11? All “credible” conspiracy theories discard all the evidence of al-qaeda’s involvement, ignore most of physical evidence and cherry-pick a few supposed anomalies. Do you not see the problem with that? Or are you one of those “truthers” whose theories claim something along the lines of “the HAARP project was used to create molecular dissociation, which was what brought the buildings down, not planes”?
Just so we’re clear: do you believe that islam has nothing to do with 9/11?
John Mustart South Africa. says
Thanks for your reply Angemon. I am not saying that Islam had nothing to do with it and I never mentioned HAARP. I spent 50 plus hours poring over the physical evidence and I would have to be blind and dumb to say that certain groups in the USA had nothing to do with it. I think out of the BOX and I am not afraid of the TRUTH. I also think that Political Islam is very dangerous and anti Christ. One little test for you. Prove to me that an airliner slammed into the Pentagon. But you will have to leave your comfort zone and look at all the evidence. The people I have challenged on this issue never come back to me. Will you come back to me. I have an open mind and will be very interested if you can find evidence of a plane. Looking forward to hearing from you.
Angemon says
John Mustart South Africa. posted:
“I spent 50 plus hours poring over the physical evidence and I would have to be blind and dumb to say that certain groups in the USA had nothing to do with it”
You do, however, seem confident enough to say that the destruction of the Twin Towers is not to be blamed on islam. And so far you have nothing to show to back that assertion. But I am genuinely curious. Were you one of the official investigators who had access to ground zero and debris of the WTC? Or did you spent over 50 hours scouring conspiracy blogs on the internet?
“I think out of the BOX and I am not afraid of the TRUTH.”
Unless the truth is that islamic terrorists drove airplanes into the Twin Towers. Otherwise we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
“One little test for you. Prove to me that an airliner slammed into the Pentagon.”
Textbook deflection and attempt of using the guilty by association (or in this case, innocent by association) logical fallacy. It’s clear that you don’t believe the official version and you’ll try to pass anything you deem minimally inconsistent to raise doubt and, by association, try to raise the doubt about what happened on the Twin Towers, despite all the video evidence showing the airplanes flying into the buildings.
Also, notice that while John is the one doubting the official version and trying to offer a different explanation. As such, he should be the one offering evidence for his claims to us. And yet, he places the burden of evidence on me, requiring that I pass a test. A test which has no significance or relevance to what happened on the WTC on 9/11. Oh well…
John Mustart South Africa. says
Gosh Angemon, I am not sure who you are trying to confuse. You certainly can beat about the bush. You obviously believe NIST’s report with blind faith and do not seem very keen to question it. I can understand that. I did not enjoy coming to my conclusions and I sincerely wish I could have found the NIST report to have been correct. Sadly it is very deceitful and a major cover up. If a plane hit the Pentagon please tell me and give me your sources to prove it. My request is quiet simple. I am not trying to trick you or be unkind. The answer to my request would simply be a starting point to get to the truth. However I think your mind is made up so there is no point in continuing this discussion. I wish you well. Whatever the full truth is it is an American problem. I wish you people well and I sincerely hope you all get to know the full truth of 911 what ever that is. Going into the future we are faced with a rampant and dangerous Islam. This concerns me more. Best regards, John
Angemon says
John Mustart South Africa. posted:
“Gosh Angemon, I am not sure who you are trying to confuse. You certainly can beat about the bush.”
No, you’re the one beating about the bush while I kept my eyes on the prize. I said that you were trying to cast suspicions on the report of what happened on the Pentagon so you could use the guilty by association fallacy to doubt what happened in the WTC. Which is what you’re trying to do. Heck, you’re not even trying to pretend otherwise:
“The answer to my request would simply be a starting point to get to the truth.”
See? Now, the reason I knew that is not because I have psychic powers and can see into the future. It’s because I’ve encountered plenty of muslims, both online and IRL, who did just that. let ,e guess: you were going to argue that there are things that don’t make sense, like windows not breaking (that’s what blast-proof windows are expected to do), or the hole not having the outline of the airplane (a reinforced concrete building in the real world is not the same as a wooden wall in a Looney Toons cartoon), or saying that there were no physical evidence or witnesses that can confirm that a plane did in fact hit the building (which there are).
“If a plane hit the Pentagon please tell me and give me your sources to prove it. My request is quiet simple.”
Simple but nonsensical. That’s not how things work. If YOU don’t believe the official version then burden of evidence is upon YOU.
“However I think your mind is made up so there is no point in continuing this discussion.”
I agree that there’s no point in continuing this discussion. You made a statement that you can’t substantiate about accessing physical evidence, you give no reason to doubt the official version. Your mind is made up – you want to exonerate islam and blame the US government.
“Whatever the full truth is it is an American problem.”
Huh? Whatever the full truth is? Wait a minute, didn’t you said that “the answer to my[your] request would simply be a starting point to get to the truth“?
Salah says
@Christy
Did you know that Muhammad, your “prophet,” was sexually impotent?
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2011/01/prophetess-of-islam.html
John Mustart South Africa. says
I am sorry to say it, but the CIA when they did torture they have put themselves in a bad position. Feinstein was rightly exposing this despicable behavior. Are you happy with torture? The CIA gets away with too much. Wait for it, the truth about 911 will come out fully one day. You can hide the truth from people but not from God. I am a Christian and I follow your excellent work on Jihad Watch. You cannot have it both ways though. It’s bad when Islam (and so it is) does evil deeds and so it is when the CIA does them. All evil must be exposed. God demands it.