This is David Cameron? This is the Cameron whose government banned me from Britain for saying that Islam had a doctrine of warfare against unbelievers? This is the Cameron whose government failed to do anything about Muslim rape gangs and state school takeover plots, for fear of offending Muslims? This is the Cameron who insists that Islamic jihad terror inspired and incited by the Qur’an and Sunnah has nothing to do with Islam? This is the Cameron whose government has been supine and submissive before Islamic supremacists at every turn? Now suddenly he discovers free speech?
“PM on Pope comments: ‘There is a right to cause offence,'” BBC, January 18, 2015:
Prime Minister David Cameron has disagreed with a comment made by Pope Francis, who warned against mocking others’ religions.
Following the attack on French magazine Charlie Hebdo, the Pope made his point by saying someone who insulted his mother could “expect to get punched”.
But Mr Cameron, speaking to CBS News, said the media had the right to publish material that was offensive to some.
Twelve people were killed by militant Islamists in the attack in Paris.
A policewoman and four people at a kosher supermarket died in separate attacks in the French capital earlier this month.
‘Right to offence’Speaking to the Face the Nation programme on the American TV channel CBS, Mr Cameron was asked how to “find the right balance” after the Pope defended freedom of expression but said there were limits to freedom of speech.
The pontiff had said religions should be treated with respect, so that people’s faiths were not insulted or ridiculed.
Mr Cameron replied: “I think in a free society, there is a right to cause offence about someone’s religion.
“I’m a Christian – if someone says something offensive about Jesus, I might find that offensive, but in a free society I don’t have a right to, sort of, wreak my vengeance on them.”
He said as long as publications acted within the law, they had the right to publish any material, even if it was offensive to some….
John Stefanyszyn says
As per prime Minister Cameron…”I’m a Christian – if someone says something offensive about Jesus, I might find that offensive, but in a free society I don’t have a right to, sort of, wreak my vengeance on them.” He said as long as publications acted within the law, they had the right to publish any material, even if it was offensive to some.
…to recap: …I’m a Christian…and I believe in freedom of my right to act if the threat justifies it.
As per Jorge Bergoglio (“Pope Francis”) who, when stating that freedom of speech has limits, said to the effect that his assistant could ‘expect a punch’ if he cursed his mother.
…to recap: …I’m a Christian…and I believe in freedom of my right to act if the threat justifies it.
Both do not believe in turning the other cheek as the Lord Jesus Christ taught and lived by.
Not once did the Lord Jesus Christ attack verbally or physically his accusers who insulted Him, lied about Him, condemned Him to death, tortured and killed Him.
Why not?…because He did the Will of the One Creator God , His Father, and He trusted true justice and vengeance in His Hands. Jesus Christ did not take upon Himself to do what is right in a man’s eyes, to do one’s own will.
Man embraces FREEDOM…the freedom for self-rights, freedom for self-religion, etc.
And this self-claimed and self-justified FREEDOM, freedom of religion, confesses that it is RIGHT (a right) to be free to worship ANY “god” as per one’s desires and justification.
Very soon, the Lord Jesus Christ will return to rule the earth as the One King according to the Will of ‘I AM’ and NOT according to man’s first love for “his freedom”, for his desire to serve and magnify oneself (XES).
Allan Mandrowski says
Freedom goes all in or we don’t have Freedom at all. I don’t want a Christian telling me which god is real which one isn’t as much as I don’t want Muslims telling me that stuff. I want everyone minding their own business and accept Humanist principles.
A beautiful World is very simple: do not murder for any reason, because no reason is a reason good enough to take someones life away. And in general: do not do to others what you would not want to be done to yourself by others.
Neil Jennison says
I am a Catholic who believes in freedom……that is freedom for me to speak out what I believe is true, and also freedom for anyone listening to say I am speaking rubbish.
It means freedom for Muslims to tell me I am wrong and that Christ was a Muslim prophet. And in my right to reply that Mohammed was a warmonger and vicious pervert.
shabeer_hassan says
Leviticus 24:14
New Living Translation
“Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard the curse to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death.
Deuteronomy 21:21
Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.
Kill blasphemers
One who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall be put to death; the whole congregation shall stone the blasphemer. Aliens as well as citizens, when they blaspheme the Name, shall be put to death. (NRSV)
Leviticus 24:16
Kill adulterers
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. (NIV)
From http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/12/19/premarital.sex.ap/index.html:
Reality check: 95 percent of Americans had premarital sex
POSTED: 8:42 p.m. EST, December 20, 2006
NEW YORK (AP) — More than nine out of 10 Americans, men and women alike, have had premarital sex, according to a new study. The high rates extend even to women born in the 1940s, challenging perceptions that people were more chaste in the past.
“This is reality-check research,” said the study’s author, Lawrence Finer. “Premarital sex is normal behavior for the vast majority of Americans, and has been for decades.”
THAT MEANS 95% OF AMERICANS DESERVE ACC CHRISTIANITY
Kill people that work on Saturday
Exodus 35:2
You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day must be a Sabbath day of complete rest, a holy day dedicated to the LORD. Anyone who works on that day must be put to death. (NLT)
WHAT FOOLISH WAS THAT?
INFANT KILLING
1 Samuel 15:3,8
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’ ” … He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword.(NIV)
Deuteronomy 3:3-6
So the LORD our God delivered Og also, king of Bashan, with all his people into our hand, and we smote them until no survivor was left. We captured all his cities at that time; there was not a city which we did not take from them: sixty cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan. All these were cities fortified with high walls, gates and bars, besides a great many unwalled towns. We utterly destroyed them, as we did to Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women and children of every city. (
Steffen Larsen says
Sure, Shabbeer.
Old, long-abolished tribal laws.
Nowadays only only adhered to by …now, this is a tough question, do take your time …nowadays only adhered to by ..?
Jay Boo says
@shabeer
Muhammad, the caravan thief preached words of peace in order to kill and to fleece.
The Bad News
He ABROGATED his early verse to reveal that what he desired was a brutality truly perverse.
Muhammad was given an underserved ‘honorary’ title of prophet — by his companions who stole from other peoples pockets.
You quote Leviticus and Deuteronomy and try to claim that it reflects on Christianity.
The Good News is Jesus did away with such brutality.
If one were to say to Muslims, “He who without sin let him cast the FIRST stone” they would all jump to their feet and proudly shout “ME” hoping to receive the dubious honor of flaunting Islamic bloodlust piety.
Bow your head in shame shabeer
Lie low and fully prostrate on the floor, shabeer as a sign of repentance of sins committed against all the many victims of unjust and satanic Islamic intolerance.
mortimer says
Correct approach, Steffan.
Question 1 for Shabeer: When was the last time Jews practiced stoning? Can you find that?
Question 2 for Shabeer: When was the last Islamic stoning? Last week, right?
Question 3 for Shabeer: how many thousand years between the Jewish and Islamic events?
Angemon says
mortimer posted:
“Question 1 for Shabeer: When was the last time Jews practiced stoning? Can you find that?”
Another pertinent question would be “why” they stopped.
katnis says
@shabeer_hassan
You’re in the wrong century. I was born and raised Catholic. We aren’t taught these things (stoning and murder) and don’t practice these things. And by the way, our Jewish friends and neighbors… and others beneath the Judeo-Christian umbrella don’t practice these things either. In fact, atheists, agnostics, and many other faiths and philosophies don’t practice these things. Can you say the same for muslims? Afraid not.
voegelinian says
More often than not, the Islamopologists (like “shabeer hassan”) who deposit their camelturd-comments in Jihad Watch comments threads simply do drives-by and never return to field the questions and commentary elicited by their initial dump. One wonders what their sense of strategy is, since all they are doing is presenting one crapload of specious fallacies, followed by a series of usually intelligent & informed rebuttals. I suppose the most generous explanation is that they are not putting much thought into their bowel movement.
Angemon says
voegelinian posted:
“simply do drives-by and never return to field the questions and commentary elicited by their initial dump”
shabeer_hassan, this is voegelinian.
voegelinian, this is shabeer_hassan.
Pot, meet kettle.
Kettle, meet pot.
But there’s a Shyamalan-esque twist – I have yet to see shabeer chiding his “former friends” for not answering criticisms direct at him or claiming he answered everything and lashing out at his critics.
Barry K says
Angemon/ Mortimer
Interesting comment that shows Islam too can reform like Judaism. Judaism today has done away with many such Old Testament laws and traditions, even though they don’t embrace Christ and New Testament teachings. Judaism is not christianity. Nothing in the Old Testament or Torah authorises doing away with such laws and traditions and yet today’s version of Judaism is accepted as scripturally legitimate. A reformed Islam is the best way to deradicalise the militants and win the war over the Wahabis and Salafis. Otherwise it will be just a long ongoing fire fighting. The old islamic militant theology is the root of the evil and unless dealth with ( through reinterpretation as in todays version of Judaism) , the violence and hate against the infidels just continue .
Angemon says
Barry K posted:
“Angemon/ Mortimer
Interesting comment that shows Islam too can reform like Judaism. Judaism today has done away with many such Old Testament laws and traditions, even though they don’t embrace Christ and New Testament teachings. Judaism is not christianity. Nothing in the Old Testament or Torah authorises doing away with such laws and traditions and yet today’s version of Judaism is accepted as scripturally legitimate.”
Judaism is not my forte, but as far as I know, Jews consider that the destruction of the Temple Mount marked the end of the covenant that mandated those laws.
Islam went through a movement similar in nature to the Protestant Reformation – an attempt to return to scriptural doctrines and practices. It’s the Saudi wahabism, one of the most literal, virulent forms of islam.Thinking that islam can go the way of Judaism and Christianity is a tempting as it is naive – there’s not much leeway when the example of conduct muslims are encouraged to imitate as closely as possible robbed, raped, tortured and killed people for no other reason than not believing he was a messenger of god.
Barry K says
Angemon
Interesting again but theologically the justification for the changes in todays Judaism is just as naive as you would say for the possibility of reforms in Islam. The issue which is the main objection on this blog is that theologically the Koran contain strict verses which must be adhered to that prevents Islam from reforming and not about lack of moderate muslims wanting to. Todays version of Judaism in its selective practice of some laws and rejecting other laws ( the violent type) makes it naive to say theologically Islam cannot do the same. All theology except the absolute truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ can change according to the times.
Angemon says
Barry K posted:
“Angemon
Interesting again but theologically the justification for the changes in todays Judaism is just as naive as you would say for the possibility of reforms in Islam.”
I said islam went through a reform similar in nature to the protestant reform. The result was wahabi islam, one of the harshest forms of islam.
“The issue which is the main objection on this blog is that theologically the Koran contain strict verses which must be adhered to that prevents Islam from reforming and not about lack of moderate muslims wanting to.”
No matter how many “moderate” muslims there are, they can’t reform islam if they don’t have a theological basis for it. I haven’t read a quran that didn’t stated that the rules in it were meant to be eternal.
“Todays version of Judaism in its selective practice of some laws and rejecting other laws ( the violent type)”
Like I told you, as far as I know, the destruction of the Temple Mound marked the end of the covenant that mandated those laws. That’s not the same as “selective practice”.
“makes it naive to say theologically Islam cannot do the same.”
Ok then, what’s your basis for a theological change in islam? What parts of the quran/sunna/ahadith allow for a reform? Because as far as I know it, islam claims to be the last revelations from the God of Jews and Christians, and its rules are supposed to be final and unchangeable until the end of times.
“All theology except the absolute truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ can change according to the times.”
Then all theology is equally useless – what good is a set of rules and practices if they can be changed to suit the times? But I’m going to take your word for it Barry – I don’t like the commandment about coveting my neighbour’s wife – how can I change that one? I also don’t like the one about not committing adultery. What can I do about that one? And I’d also like to change the one about murder – you know, just in case my neighbour catches me and his wife on the act. Who do I talk to to get it changed?
Barry K says
Angemon
Apply the same strict rules you apply on Islam to Judaism. On what authority is your so called justification based on? Quote scriptures. Otherwise just an opinion. Mosaic and levitical laws are the essential substance of Judaism. Without it Judaism cannot exist. Since the temple is no more until it is rebuilt again, then for pragmatic reasons only laws pertaining to temple worship is valid to be temporarily shelved until the temple is rebuilt. All other non temple ceremonial laws remains essential part of Judaism as long as Judaism holds on to the Torah and OT. No where does it say, it can be done away with except in New Testament. Your argument is as weak as this blog’s argument that the Koran does not make room for reform.
Wahabis and the Salafi theology is not reformed version. It is just a revival or return of old historical militant theology that came into prominence once again after the Iranian revolution and the oil wealth that enabled S Arabia (USA good friend) to propagate its Wahabis interpretation of Islam to Muslims around the world esp the poorer countries. If you have lived in muslim majority country in South EastAsia, you will know that it is not naive to say that moderate Islam existed before the rise of influence of Saudi and Iran over Muslims. Reformation is returning to the practice of pragmatic Islam before the rise of oil wealth. Otherwise, you think every muslim is like Osama or Saladin.
I am no apologist for Islam. Just that I know the root cause of the problem is in the revival of Wahabis and Salafi theology. Dealing with this theology is the answer but it is not as simple as battling the communist with cannons and guns. That was easy. This is about winning hearts and minds and therefore the battle must be theological. Do we chose to help reform Islam or try the impossibility of trying to annihilate it. Yes I agree to measres to check and control muslim entry to Europe, increase sharply and immediately non muslim population, legislate to check radicals, ensure single Judeo Christian laws only , allow Judeo christians trditions in public places, engage in military battles on some fronts etc. but this alone won’t be enough. Even the fall of communism was through the change of hearts and minds of the people.
Angemon says
Barry K posted:
“Angemon
Apply the same strict rules you apply on Islam to Judaism. On what authority is your so called justification based on? Quote scriptures. Otherwise just an opinion.”
Translation “Since I can’t prove anything I said about islam being reformed I’m just going to attack Angemon’s claims and hope no one notices.”
It’s not an opinion Barry. Jews gave up on stoning a long time ago for the aforementioned reason. Meanwhile, muslims consider the quran to be the literal word of allah, and the quran says, on 5:3 “(…)This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion.(…)“.
If allah says islam is the perfect religion, on what grounds can you say “I don’t like this part about polygamy so let’s forget it”?
“Mosaic and levitical laws are the essential substance of Judaism. Without it Judaism cannot exist. Since the temple is no more until it is rebuilt again, then for pragmatic reasons only laws pertaining to temple worship is valid to be temporarily shelved until the temple is rebuilt.”
What was it that you said? Oh, yeah:
“On what authority is your so called justification based on? Quote scriptures. Otherwise just an opinion.”
“Your argument is as weak as this blog’s argument that the Koran does not make room for reform.”
So far, you haven’t made any argument to the contrary. In fact, your argument seems to be “well, jews did it, so why can’t muslims?”. You do know that muslims have a visceral, religion-based, hatred of jews, right? If jews did it, muslims will probably do the opposite.
“Wahabis and the Salafi theology is not reformed version.”
Wahabism came from a reform similar in nature to the Protestant reform – an attempt to return to the core values of the faith. Just because you don’t like the result doesn’t mean you can’t overlook facts.
“It is just a revival or return of old historical militant theology”
18tn century Arabia was not exactly a military powerhouse. In any case, can you give me any mainstream sect of islam that isn’t a militant theology? Any mainstream sect of islam that doesn’t teach that unbelievers are the worst of creatures, that jihad is warfare against non-believers or that muslims and non-muslims can be made equal before the law?
“If you have lived in muslim majority country in South EastAsia, you will know that it is not naive to say that moderate Islam existed before the rise of influence of Saudi and Iran over Muslims.”
So why didn’t those “moderate islamites” stood up against the “non-moderate” islam? I think you’re confusing “being to weak to engage in armed warfare” with “being moderate”…
“Reformation is returning to the practice of pragmatic Islam before the rise of oil wealth.”
Once again, just because muslim nations were too weak to engage in armed warfare doesn’t mean they were “moderate”. When they had little to no resources they stood meekly in their corner. When oil money came in they could afford dawah and funding groups like al-qaeda.
“Otherwise, you think every muslim is like Osama or Saladin.”
Nah, only brain-dead leftists who can’t tell an ideology from a human being think that way. Criticizing islam isn’t the same as persecuting muslims, and saying that islam has a doctrine of warfare against non-muslims isn’t the same as saying that every single muslim would slice your throat if they had the chance. Ideology. Individuals. Learn the difference.
“I am no apologist for Islam. Just that I know the root cause of the problem is in the revival of Wahabis and Salafi theology.”
Wahabis and salafis try to practice islam as closely as possible as it was practiced by muhammad and his companions. So, according to you, the root cause of the problem is that muslims try to emulate muhammad as closely as they can, which is something that the quran tells them to do (33:21). Now do you see how ridiculous your stance is?
“Do we chose to help reform Islam or try the impossibility of trying to annihilate it.”
It’s not our job to try to, or help to, “reform” islam. In fact, any possible help would certainly be met with hostility, just another attempt of Jews and Christians to try to corrupt muslims. If muslims are to throw the quran and muhammad into the trash bin of history and join their fellow human beings in the 21st century, the decision must come from them alone.
“ Even the fall of communism was through the change of hearts and minds of the people.”
Communism doesn’t teach that communists will be granted admission into a heavenly brothel if they die fighting american capitalists. Communism is a political ideology, not a religion, and, as such, your comparison is silly at best – you’re ignorant of the appeal that a religion can have simply for being a religion. How did the “win hearts and minds” strategy worked in Iraq or Afghanistan?
Barry K says
Angemon
I forgot to response on your last part. No, making changes to adjust to the times does not necessarily render religion useless if the changes are for the moral good of society at large. In the Christian faith, however, doctrinal changes or rather return to historic Christianity was brought about through the protestant reformation.
The question you raised has to do with moral laws. No, you cannot changed them as moral laws still applies in New Testament. God is holy and these laws shows the righteous character of God. You can choose to ignore them but you sin.Unfortunately many moral laws have been trampled upon by churches themselves as in gay marriages and divorces not to mention preachers who rob others or covet his neighbours wife etc.
Angemon says
Barry K posted:
“No, making changes to adjust to the times does not necessarily render religion useless if the changes are for the moral good of society at large.”
What you said was a bit different:
“All theology except the absolute truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ can change according to the times.”
You went from “religions can change their rules if the societies around them change” to “religions can change if it’s for the betterment of society”. But ok, let’s stick with the last version. Aren’t religions supposed to set rules of behaviour and morality, such has “You shall not kill”, “You shall not commit adultery”, etc? On what grounds can you change religious doctrines and claim it’s to improve society? That’s not reform, that’s creating a new religion.
“In the Christian faith, however, doctrinal changes or rather return to historic Christianity was brought about through the protestant reformation.”
And in the islamic, whabism and salafism are the return to historical islam, islam as it was practiced by muhammad and his companions. To do away with, for example, child marriages, polygamy or sexual slavery you need to do away with the example of muhammad and much of the quran. Even if you don’t want to do away, you have at least to ignore a large portion of it. And who gets to decide what gets to ignored and not?
You know, mullahs in pre-revolution Iran did something like that. Khomeini had this to say about it:
“If the Amir al mo’menin wanted to be tolerant, he would not have drawn his sword killing 700 people in one go
In our prisons we have more of the same kind of people who are corrupt.
If we do not kill them, each one of them that gets out, will become a murderer!
They don’t become humans.
Why do you Mullahs only go after the ordinances of prayer and fasting?
Why do you only read the Quranic verses of mercy and do not read the verses of killing?
The Quran says; kill, imprison!
Why are you only clinging to the part that talks about mercy?
Mercy is against God.”
Do you understand now? Islam went through a reform similar in nature to the Protestant reform. But the result was as different as muhammad if from Jesus. Insisting in face of the evidence that islam can be “reformed” and made Christian-like in nature is not being part of the solution, it’s muddying the waters, at best, and being part of the problem, at worst.
Barry K says
Angemon,
No you translate my words incorrectly. My point is simply as in Judaism , nothing is needed to prove validity of reforms in Islam. If it is needed, then the same rule applies to Judaism. Both religions have somewhat similarities eg as regarding theocratic laws on punishment for crimes. If Judaism can freely do away with stoning of adulterers, then no stricter rule should apply for reform Islam. Please don’t say the justification is in the destruction of the temple as laws on stoning is not dependent of the temple existence. While Mosaic and levitical laws are essential substance of Judaism, I am not questioning the selective removal of laws in today’s Judaism. In fact I agree as it is reforming to the times. Similarly I welcome any movement to reform Islam to suit the times like Judaism. There are no scriptural basis for reforms in either Islam or Judaism but it is a good thing. No, you don’t need to help the moderate Muslims to reform if you don’t want to,but you don’t need to extent your hate and redicule to those who chooses to deradicalise Islam. In closing may I comment that God has a special love for Israel, and is not finished with His chosen people yet.
Barry K says
Angemon
I am not writing some legal documents to worry about how I construct my sentences as long as my message is consistent. looks like I need to explain here. All religions refer to man inspired religions with a founder eg Mohamed, Buddha, or developed by man. If you are familiar with Christian orthodox doctrines, you will not find it difficult to understand why I said ‘except for the absolute truth of the gospel in Jesus Christ.’ Christianity is not a religion but about a personal relationship with a God thru Jesus Christ. Jesus is not the founder but God Himself, incarnate, died and rose again to redeem those who receive Him. In summary you cannot change doctrines pertaining to the faith that makes one a Christian. You cannot change MORAL laws of God, so all the ‘don’t ‘ commands you mentioned stays. You can change traditions and non essential practices like how you worship, pray, whether woman cover their heads or not etc. Judaism ceased stoning . Is that not moving with times for the good of societies, Some churches think homosexuality is not a moral issue and approve of it thinking it is a fair and just thing to do, which I don ‘t think so.
Barry K says
Angemon
There you go again. I was hoping for at least some dialog or agreement in some areas but the hate is so intense and emotional that it is all between they and us. I don’t know which country you live in but if you were a Christian in muslim majority Malaysia, you will be cheering for the moderates who often stand by you. Your hope is in them. Not everyone can emigrate out. For those who cannot they encourage the moderates to rise. On the other hand, you see no other solution except war and confrontation as long as the victims of the conflict is in some far away muslim majority land. God bless you.
Angemon says
Barry K posted:
“My point is simply as in Judaism , nothing is needed to prove validity of reforms in Islam. If it is needed, then the same rule applies to Judaism. Both religions have somewhat similarities eg as regarding theocratic laws on punishment for crimes. If Judaism can freely do away with stoning of adulterers, then no stricter rule should apply for reform Islam. ”
Once again: Jews consider that the destruction of the Temple Mound marked the end of their covenant. It’s not something as simple as “freely do away” or “selecting scriptures”. In fact, you either overlook or are completely unaware of the differences between judaism and islam. Jews don’t consider God as a dictator and don’t claim to be slaves of God. Muslims defend that the only possible relationship between them and allah is one of master and slave – allah orders, muslims obey. The word of allah is perfect, and the quran states that islam is the perfect religion (5:3).
“Please don’t say the justification is in the destruction of the temple as laws on stoning is not dependent of the temple existence.”
The laws were part of the covenant between Jews and God. The destruction of the temple marked the end of the covenant. It’s not a difficult concept, I don’t see why you’re having trouble getting it.
“While Mosaic and levitical laws are essential substance of Judaism, I am not questioning the selective removal of laws in today’s Judaism. In fact I agree as it is reforming to the times. Similarly I welcome any movement to reform Islam to suit the times like Judaism.”
Once again: Judaism wasn’t reformed to suit the times. The quran claims islam is the perfect religion. On what basis can a muslim ignore, or do away with, parts of a religion that claims to be perfect as it is?
“No, you don’t need to help the moderate Muslims to reform if you don’t want to,but you don’t need to extent your hate and redicule to those who chooses to deradicalise Islam.”
Here’s what I said: Any “reform” or reinterpretation of islam must come from within islam itself. Any outside interference will likely be seen as an attempt of corrupting islam.
There’s nothing “hateful” about that, is it? Also, do you know that appeal to emotions is a logical fallacy?
Your insistence that islam can be “reformed” like Judaism is based on your ignorance of both religions.
“All religions refer to man inspired religions with a founder eg Mohamed, Buddha, or developed by man.”
Islam doesn’t consider itself to be a man-inspired religion. According to islamic sources, the quran is the perfect word of allah that has always existed and it’s valid forever. I believe you just offended millions and millions and millions of muslims worldwide.
“Christianity is not a religion but about a personal relationship with a God thru Jesus Christ.”
Islam is about a relationship with allah: allah is the master, muslims are the slaves. What allah says muslims have to do, even if they disagree with it, because allah knows best (2:216)
“You cannot change MORAL laws of God, so all the ‘don’t ‘ commands you mentioned stays. You can change traditions and non essential practices like how you worship, pray, whether woman cover their heads or not etc.”
You can’t change those traditions in islam. If muhammad did it, muslims are encouraged to imitate him because he’s the perfect example of conduct (33:21). Muhammad had adulterers stoned, therefore muslims can’t say “let’s stop with the stoning, ok?” under penalty of being considered deviants, a charge punishable by death.
“Judaism ceased stoning . Is that not moving with times for the good of societies”
The critical flaw in your logic, as I stated before, is to assume that Judaism and islam teach the same thing.
“I was hoping for at least some dialog or agreement in some areas but the hate is so intense and emotional that it is all between they and us.”
You may not like what I’m saying, but that doesn’t make it “hateful” or “emotional”. Appeal to emotion and wishful thinking are logical fallacies, and you’re neck-deep in them. And I don’t have to agree with something that’s wrong to begin with. That’s part of the reason why we’re in this mess nowadays – enough people believe that all religions are the same (except for Judaism and Christianity, which are the worse), teach the same and therefore their followers act the same.
“I don’t know which country you live in but if you were a Christian in muslim majority Malaysia, you will be cheering for the moderates who often stand by you.”
Why haven’t the “moderates” rose to power and changed the rule of law? Why isn’t the “moderate” view the predominant view in Malaysia, if there are so many of “moderate” muslims?
“On the other hand, you see no other solution except war and confrontation as long as the victims of the conflict is in some far away muslim majority land.”
Are you a Christian? If so, don’t your scriptures teach not to lie? Where did I say that the only solution was a war? It seems idiocy is running rampantly and I’m damned if I do and damned if I don’t – on one side voegelinian accuses me of “protecting muslims”, on the other Barry K accuses me of wanting a war to kill muslims living far away. Meanwhile, and as far as I can tell, my position remains the same.
Oh well…
P.S.: Barry, didn’t you consider Reza Aslan to be a “moderate” muslim? If that’s your standard of “moderation”, then God help us all.
Clearsighted says
Perfectly put.
David Hayden says
Also, Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me. If only….
somehistory says
You don’t want Christians telling you which God is real…you just want to tell Christians and everyone else to *mind their own business….and accept *humanist* principles…”
Then, you sort of quote Christ…the one in whom Christians believe and follow…by saying “do not do to others what you would not want to be done to yourself by others.”
Just where do you think that “Golden Rule” originated…and how do you think it came to be so well known and used today…even by many who say Christians should just *mind their own business”?
One final point: It is the *business* of Christians to say to others what Christ said. He commanded all those who love Him to tell others about Him. You don’t have to listen any more than we have to listen to you tell us to accept humanism.
somehistory says
One final point about the *Golden Rule*: It’s a positive….Jesus said, “Do to others what you wish to have done to you (Matt. 7:12).”
It is not a negative thought like your comment makes it seem.
mortimer says
Allan,
The problem is this: Sharia permits the murder of anyone who verbally opposes Islam, since they are at war with Islam:
“There is no indemnity obligatory for killing a non-Muslim (harbi) at war with Muslims.” -Reliance of the Traveller, o4.17, p.593
This makes every Muslim a potential murderer of any blasphemer. If that cannot be changed, we will have to quarantine Muslims.
voegelinian says
How do you quarantine 1.3 billion people whose various diverse demographics are roiling around in a diaspora (spread historically by a supremacist-expansionism that only abated in a relative brief window of time for a couple of centuries from the 18th to the early 20th centuries) comprising 50+ countries around the world as well as, increasingly, nearly every Western nation into which they have been invited by the millions and which Trojan Horse presence only seems to be aggrandizing, not diminishing, through a combination of stealth jihad (including immigration jihad) on their part and Useful Idiocy on our part…?
John Stefan Obeda says
Allan Mandrowski says
A beautiful World is very simple: do not murder for any reason, because no reason is a reason good enough to take someones life away.
It is not at all a beautiful world in which a pre-meditated murderer that kills innocent people as the Islamists are doing in Nigeria, even murders a woman while giving birth to her baby who is not executed. The world is much more beautiful when it to obeys God’s directive, “. . . he [the government] does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of justice to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.” (Romans 13:4). And that “sword” is the sword of capital punishment. . . . By the way, God’s way is never to force anyone to do or to believe anything. He gives us freedom but not after death.
Alissa says
Very well said. What a ridiculous thing for the Pope to say. Really we are being sold out by our politicians, religious leaders, mainstream media, educational institutions…all the hallmarks of a free, democratic, pluralistic society are vanishing….and the muslims continue to grow and expand in shear numbers as well as control. They are a small minority now. What will our society look like in 20 years? What will life be like for our children and grandchildren?
Bamaguje says
” the Pope made his point by saying someone who insulted his mother could “expect to get punched”” – BBC.
How many of the numerous critics and comedians lampooning Catholicism and Christianity, has the Pope punched?
ruth says
I would think all these people who profess to be Christians would recognize that Islam is not of God….Issa is not Jesus and allah is not the God of Abraham.. I personally do not give a dang if I offend musims…they offend me with their lies about Jesus and the Bible and their murderous actions..
somehistory says
Jesus didn’t *attack* anyone, but He did always tell the truth, even when it made others angry (John 8:44 is an example. Matt. 23:33 is another.)
And, yes, soon He will come with more than words for those whose father is the devil.
thehalalporkchop says
Good post. When Jesus sent out the disciples the first time He reminded them they were to take nothing with them and their needs were taken care of. 2nd time He said He was leaving them and if they did not possess a sword they should sell their coat and buy. one. Christ does not expect us to be door mats for the forces of evil to walk all over. Speaking of the forces of evil. Shabeer——- Oh never mind.
Barry K says
Shabeer,
Your attempt in quoting the Old Testament to implicate a violent theology in Christianity will only highlight the teachings of grace in Jesus Christ that has done away with the old. Mount Zion is greater than Mount Sinai. The answer is to deradicalise Islam by reforming it like today’s version of Judaism.
Allan Mandrowski says
Cameron is a coward and a fraud. He has surrendered Britain to the Muslims and the Muslims know it. Britain is taken hostage and numbed by political correctness madness.
Alissa says
Very true. Too little too late. However, it seems like he has acquired some courage since the show of solidarity in Paris recently. Let’s hope this will continue to grow into some solid leadership.
umbra says
He also realised that the general election is in May this year. His own party’s conservative base is eroding and being seriously challenged by UKIP. If a small but sufficient number of conservative voters abandon cameron (uk is first pass the post system, not 50% majority), he could kiss bye bye to his prime-ministership. In all probability, it is already too late for cameron, unless ROP types continue with their French style bloodbath in the uk between now and the general election. cameron is an opportunist with no real courage or leadership.
Alissa says
Yes it all makes sense now. Let’s hope UKIP wins by a landslide and starts to shake the place up
Michael Warden says
Don’t forget Cameron has a General Election coming up in May this year. Also don’t believe a word he says. Back in 2010 – before the last election – he gave a ” cast iron guarantee ” of an EU Referendum. Have we had one ? No.
umbra says
Yes. The cast iron guarantee is about as valuable as the last hyperinflated Zimbabwean dollar. In any case, his promised eu referendum probably only applies to cabinat level members. He gave Scotland the vote, but short changed the uk on eu vote.
john spielman says
Cameron is a hypocrite. So why was a 19y/o man and 2 young female soccer fans arrested and charged with “hate ” crime for desecrating a qur’an. islam is evil and must be exposed (mocked ridiculed if you call it that ) as often as possible every day and every way
jihad3tracker says
Yes, Allan and Alissa — I WITH DRAW MY SEMI-ENTHUSIASTIC COMMENT ABOUT CAMERON [ BELOW ] , , ,
I just heard the CBS interview ( that Mr. Spencer refers indirectly ) to with this IDIOT. He said that Islam was being “perverted” AT LEAST 4 TIMES IN THE FIRST 5 MINUTES OF HIS REMARKS.
And, of course, Bob Schieffer — with whom he spoke — did not challenge him or ask how Cameron knows that “perversion” is actually the case.
ross says
Keep in mind that with any of these politicians, you need to watch what they actually do and pay no attention to what they say. They read polls and verbally respond accordingly but they never seem to do the right thing anymore. We are on our own, unless it benefits the multinational corporations who bribe the politicians.
jihad3tracker says
Yes, Ross, “pay no attention to what they say”. Spot on true. I had been giving Cameron a pass on being as totally deceptive as our prez — but from now on the PM gets my contempt until the time he unequivocally shows a commitment to truth.
jihad3tracker says
PM Cameron’s wife probably is responsible for this epiphany. She must have declared an ultimatum during dinner recently ” Dearest, no more sugar in your tea [ nudge nudge, wink wink ] until you visit Robert Spencer’s website ! ! “
john spielman says
I believe her sister is a muslim convert
Alissa says
I think that’s Tony Blair’s sister-in-law.
Michael Warden says
Yes, that is correct. Cameron’s father in law is Lord somebody or other, the biggest landowner in the county of Lincolnshire.
Jay Boo says
That would explain David Cameron’s “Special Relationship” with Muslim Barrack Obama.
Don McKellar says
All very much at odds with his actions. A very confusing message from Cameron — who has come across as a very confused man when it comes to Islam. This statement is completely contradictory to his zombie-like mantra chant of “nothing to do with Islam” in the face of overwhelming, blindingly obvious evidence and examples that is all absolutely and completely ONLY about Islam.
As for the Pope: “…the Pope made his point by saying someone who insulted his mother could “expect to get punched”. This pretty much sums up the current Pope, doesn’t it? What would the Jesus character say to the Pope if he were to suddenly, magically appear? Would it be something about turning the other cheek? EH WOT?
The people at the BBC have shown on endless occasions that they are living in an alternative universe when it comes to Islam, without any connection to reality. Almost certainly, the strange irony and hypocracy of the quotes from Cameron and the Pope sailed completely over their heads.
jihad3tracker says
Hey Don — There is a new buzzword being tossed into the blender for those who know nothing real about Islam’s agenda. Are you sitting down ??? “BASTARDIZED”. I kid you not.
ROBERT GIBBS ( FORMER PRESS SECRETARY ) used that in his comments today on Meet The Press.
Gibbs is now part a fancy-lib foundation of some sort. I did not catch the exact title but you can probably find it by a web search.
Joe says
“All very much at odds with his actions. ”
You’re talking about the man who said “Islamic extremists are fascists” (June 2014) and “islam is the religion of peace” (September 2014).
As The Mad Hatter said, “Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”
Angry says
“This is the Cameron whose government failed to do anything about Muslim rape gangs and state school takeover plots, for fear of offending Muslims?”
Mr Spencer, you are incorrect there sir. It was 13 years (1997 – 2010) of the previous government (Labour Party under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown) who turned a blind eye and a deaf ear to the reports of muslim grooming gangs.
The EDL, BNP and Liberty GB brought the muslim grooming epidemic to the nations attention, in which the Conservatives (under Cameron) then acted upon, and in-turn the national newspapers ran headline after headline about the epidemic, in which put the blame directly on the Labour Party controlled constituencies and the Labour socialists who were responsible for the care of vulnerable, under-aged girls.
In fairness to the Tories, they ordered that ALL reports of grooming over the last 15+ years or so, be fully investigated, and the Tories are forcing the closure of islamic hate preach schools and madrassas, unlike Labour who gave permission for the hate schools to utilized and financed.
However, what makes Cameron look like a dhimmi twat, and not fit for office, is that he said that ‘islam is a religion of peace’ and that islamic terrorism is not supported by, and/or has anything to do with ‘peace-loving’ muslims.
Michael Warden says
Actually it was entirely down to the BNP to expose the muslim grooming / rape gangs in the shape of former chairman Nick Griffin ( who was arrested on race hate charges when he blew the whistle ) and activist Marlene Guest ( recently deceased ).
Angry says
Yes, but the EDL also did their bit, such as protesting outside courts where muslims were being sentenced for grooming and rape, as well as protesting outside Labour council offices where muslim grooming was taking place in their own constituencies (Rochdale, Doncaster, Oldham etc..)
So while the BNP may have been the first to highlight the epidemic, they were backed up with force by other right-wing groups; and opposed by the useful idiots, the fascist radical far left (UAF, HnH, SWP), who are the apologists for islam and the raping adherers to it..
ECAW says
“backed up with force by other right-wing groups”
Do you mean the EDL? They are not right-wing except in the imagination of MSM journalists.
Semeru says
Any-one notice that both BNP and EDL are snubbed by JW
The BNP where bringing awareness to the problems of grooming way back in 2009, Where was Spencer.
Angemon says
Semeru posted:
“The BNP where bringing awareness to the problems of grooming way back in 2009, Where was Spencer.”
In his country, fighting on his homefront – dealing your coreligionists’ actions in the UK should be the UK police’s job.
Jay Boo says
Semeru
Ever notice that Muhammad and his self-serving revelation sock-puppet Allah were both snubbed by the pagans of Mecca until Muhammad promised that Muhammad, Allah and the three daughters of Allah would all bow to pagan gods and forever worship the black idol stone in Mecca?
Angry says
@ Semeru
Maybe the reason is because Nick Griffin was a former member of the National Front, and in his early days, held up a plaque in front of reporter Roger Cook, that said the holocaust didn’t happen; or words to that effect. Griffin has apologised for the denial.
As for the EDL, Mr Spencer was banned from attending an EDL demo march (and indeed the UK) by Theresa May; otherwise Mr Spencer would have been there and allowed his freedom of speech regarding islam. The EDL are supportive of Israel, and it’s the minority fringe groups that give the EDL a bad name.
PAthena says
The Pope says that one should not insult other religions. What does he think about the Aztec religion? Does he not think that human sacrifice, etc., are terrible?
Boston Tea Party says
A couple things seem clear to me:
1. The political and media elites of the West don’t really believe in anything other than “keeping the peace.” They don’t believe in any religion, they don’t believe in any culture (including their own), they don’t believe in Western liberal values and rights–they’re just complete empty suits.
2. There is no solution in regards to the large Muslim populations in the West opposing liberal Western values. So really, all the politicians are going to do is to play “whack-a-mole,” depending on where conflicts arise. One moment they’ll be cracking down on jihadi speech and antisemitism, the next moment they’ll be arresting people for insulting Islam, and the next moment they’ll be proclaiming their undying commitment to free speech—but really, they don’t believe in ANY of it. They’re past the point of no return, they know it, and now their only goal is to keep the lid on the pressure cooker for as long as possible.
dsinc says
BTP, your comment has nailed it. I agree with you 100%.
They’re past the point of no return, they know it, and now their only goal is to keep the lid on the pressure cooker for as long as possible.
Wellington says
Very well said, BTP. It’s all short-term tactical stuff with the current (and pathetic) Western elites. No long-term strategy whatsoever. They are empty suits and remain in denial about Islam although Islam is so awful that even some of these rubes are beginning to realize that they have been dead wrong about the ROP though they can hardly admit it to themselves let alone to others.
somehistory says
One could read Luke 21:25 where Jesus said there would ‘be anguish among the nations because the people do not know the way out’ of the situation we find ourselves today. He was correct, as always.
katnis says
Maybe he’s become more educated on islam? I take the comment as progress.
katnis says
Meanwhile, somewhere in Italy, muslim immigrants destroy a statue of The Virgin Mary.
1. Italy permitted entry and likely supported these immigrants.
2. This is in response to stupid cartoon?
3. Not sure if this qualifies as “free speech.” I say slap these jerks with vandalism charges, at a minimum.
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/muslim-persecution-of-christians/italy-muslims-destroy-and-urinate-on-virgin-mary-statue/
umbra says
Free speech protection does not extent to damaging private property – at least that is case in the US.
somehistory says
The AP report says they stole a photograph an older man was holding as he knelt to pray beside the statute they destroyed. In the U.S., that is theft, and if they made him feel afraid, robbery. If they even so much as touched him, it would be an assault. But, not knowing the laws in that little Italian town, I cannot say if they could be charged with robbery and assault as well as the vandalism. But, they should be.
somehistory says
Correction: I may have confused the AP with something else I was reading from their site about muslims anger at the cartoons…in Iraq and other places where the *rulers* are saying they should be considered blasphemy or some such nonsense.
Michael Copeland says
“Restrictions on the right of freedom of opinion should never be imposed.”
U.N. International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (para 49).
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrc/docs/gc34.pdf
Omi-san says
In a way, it’s good to know who’s standing with muslim terrorists. The bad news is, there are a whole lot of idiot politicians who do.
Joginder Singh says
And the politicians allong with the rest of the useful idiots on the left, in the legal system , educational system, the MSM, the intelligencia etc have not yet worked out that once their usefulness is over that their heads along with the rest of us will be on the convert, pay jaziyya or die chopping block
thomas pellow says
PM Cameron now makes some speeches about ‘freedom of speech’ but he does not practise what he preaches.
He politically calculates that most Muslim voters in the UK General Election in May oppose freedom of speech, including the right to criticize Islam .
Therefore, PM Cameron continues with the ban on the entry of anti-Islamic jihad, Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer. He is a hypocrite who is not to be trusted.
StoryBrit says
This is a Politician running to be re-elected in May. He said that the low oil price should make employers give pay rises too. In other words he knows what people want to hear, not what is morally right
Mirren10 says
For anyone who is curious as to why camoron *appears* to be doing an about-face, the answer is simple. Elections in May. UKIP is becoming increasingly popular, even guardian readers are vociferously anti-islam in comments sections, the EDL is becoming more mainstream and popular, Paul Weston of LibertyGB has garnered a lot of support recently. camoron, like a jackal, has scented a wind change, the *British* people are waking up. There aren’t yet enough mohammedans and leftards to give the tories a clear victory, so soapy camoron is carefully edging a wedge into UKIP support.
Also, no doubt, his advisers (**not** bitch warsi) have probably warned him there is a seachange of feeling, not only in Britain, but in *Europe*.
If we, the British, are stupid enough to fall for this (this is the pos who promised a referendum on membership of the EU, *before* the election, then reneged on his promise *after* the election) I shall be so angry I’ll probably spontaneously combust.
This is the camoron who presides over a Britain which imprisoned a couple of teenagers for draping a mosque’s doorhandle with bacon; which charged a woman who tore up a koran at a football match with hate speech, and she was banned from the grounds, and lost her job, and there are countless more similar cases.
This is nothing more than a cynical politico scenting a seachange, and determined to keep his snout in the trough.
And if he’s a Christian, then I’m a Hottentot.
Mirren10 says
Yes, and this is also the man who originally stated that we should integrate with mohammedans, rather than they with us, and who said the trouble with the UK was there were too many white, Christian faces.
Then when UKIP swept the board at the local elections, he did a swift volte-face, and stated that immigrants must accept British values. This creep has absolutely no shame. He’ll say anything, and do anything, to get re-elected.
Alissa says
OMG. I have a renewed understanding of cameron. Now I see why he and Obama have a “special relationship” I am so happy to see UKIP rising in popularity as well as the EDL
Champ says
Great comment, Mirren10! ..thank you for sharing some of your Insider Info.
“And if he’s a Christian, then I’m a Hottentot.” ..lol! ..or the Queen of England, right? 🙂
Mirren10 says
Thanks, Champ. 🙂
Angemon says
Mirren10 posted:
“For anyone who is curious as to why camoron *appears* to be doing an about-face, the answer is simple. Elections in May.”
Since Since Dave “it has nothing to do with islam” Camoron is a politician my first thought was “is this elections year?”. That’s always my first thought whenever a politician does/says something logical/true/ and/or unpopular.
I don’t think anyone would be surprised at the number of times that happens 😀
Angemon says
Oh, and by “unpopular” I mean in a leftist/PC MC environment, not in a real life context 😉 – for example, saying that a country needs to limit migration and make sure that migrants can fit in the host society.
Wellington says
Echoing Champ, spot on comment, Mirren. Cameron is a political animal first, last and always and underneath there’s not much there there. Ditto for Obama, Biden, Kerry and so many other elites here in America. Hope you’re doing well, my friend. My God, the West is in deep trouble. Huge.
Charli Main says
OFF TOPIC
“The Home Secretary said she never thought she would see the day when Jews living in Britain would say they were fearful of remaining in the country.”
This is the latest from the two faced hypocrite Theresa May.
Just who are the Jews living in Britain, afraid off Mrs May?????
Why don´t you mention exactly who the British Jews are afraid of Mrs May ???
Is it the Hindus, the Sikhs, the Buddhists, the Jainists, the animists, the atheists, Mrs May ?????
No Mrs May, its the tens of millions of Muslims that you political elites have been importing into Britain for decades.
Lookmann says
For me the ‘juicy’ part of the report is
‘Poisonous death cult’
He [Cameron] said that, while the threat had “changed and altered”, it was “still based on the fundamental problem of a poisonous death cult narrative, which is the perversion of one of the world’s major religions”.
He is dhimmi, Janus-faced, yet he is the first politician to call Islam as a ‘death cult’
PJG says
Our Australian Prime Minister, Tony Abbott, called the Islamic State a “death cult”. But we all knew it wasn’t only the “Islamic State” he was talking about.
ecosse1314 says
A month now since the Glasgow Scotland bin crash leaving 6 people dead. Still no news who the driver was or his companions. Anyone else think this strange? There seems to be a media black-out in Scotland.
Mirren10 says
”A month now since the Glasgow Scotland bin crash leaving 6 people dead. Still no news who the driver was or his companions. Anyone else think this strange?”
No, I don’t think it’s strange, at all.
As soon as I heard about it, my first thought was (given all the vehicular jihad that’s been happening recently), **mohammedans**.
tilda says
Harry Clarke, aged 58, said to have passed out at wheel of the vehicle.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/glasgow-bin-lorry-crash-driver-4998864
Dave J says
The price of living in a free society is that anyone may be critiqued, teased or joked about. No exceptions, no sacred cows, no immunity.
At the same time the law does (at least in theory) protect you against violence, death threats and vandalism. That seems like an appropriate balance.
So big boohoo, grow up and knock off the violence, death threats and vandalism.
Julia says
This isn’t about “offense” it’s about power, control and dominance. Muslims have made everyone afraid to express non-Sharia compliant opinions, they’ve become defacto gatekeepers of free speech in the west, taking away our first amendment rights, a first step on their way to taking over everything else. Thank you, Robert for your “offensive” website, I wish more people had your courage!
Peter says
He breathed some “free” airwaves while in the U.S. Don’t worry, Robert, he’ll be right back in appeasement mode in no time.
macavity says
Joginder spot on. Here in Glasgow its burkas, veils everywhere you look and of course lots of little soldiers of allah tagging along. I’ve noticed lots of somali, eritrean and north Africans these are all teenagers.
BBC and Sky agenda a daily diet of “hurt” muslims no interest in how non muslims feel. God only knows how this nightmare will play out but its not looking good. Professor bernard lewis said on the future of Europe “there is only one remaining question whether it will be an Islamised Europe or a Europeanised Islam” Heartbreaking.
Wellington says
Profoundly heartbreaking, all the more so because completely preventable if only proper knowledge of Islam and the guts to deal with it (e.g., virtually no Muslim immigration to Western nations) had existed in the first place. A true tragedy in the making.
macavity says
Wellington, thanks for your solidarity it’s much appreciated. I suppose once you know the truth you can’t pretend you don’t. I just can’t believe how much Glasgow has changed there’s a knot in my stomach filled with anger, bewilderment and dread for the future it’s like being hit on the head with a hammer I feel like no one else around me even notices or like its perfectly normal for your city to look like a town in Pakistan. As you said it was completely preventable now it’s completely irreversible. I suppose we’re going to witness the greatest struggle to save our civilization I just wonder if we have the will to fight. Best wishes
macavity says
Does anyone know if Cameron or any cabinet member has read the Koran?
SpiritOf1683 says
I don’t know if any cabinet member read the Koran, but you can be sure the Chancellor or Chancer George Osborne’s brother did – he converted to Islam.
macavity says
Spiritof1683 Thanks for letting me know, it’s just so disappointing and frustrating they’ve infiltrated every level of society. We’ve dug ourselves into one deep hole and it’s hard to see a way out, praying for a miracle plus just heard PEGIDA march has been cancelled due to death threats against the organisers.
AnneCrockett says
The mass man- not a man of independent study, thoughts and conclusions- moves closer to acknowledging the truth of the situation. A man like Cameron thinks- and I use the term “thinks” loosely- what magazines tell him is fashionably acceptable, just as he wears the clothes he is told by magazines to wear.
Angry says
‘We’re not Charlie’: France divided over Charlie Hebdo Prophet Mohammed cartoons
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11353689/Were-not-Charlie-France-divided-over-Charlie-Hebdo-Prophet-Mohammed-cartoons.html
An extract:
Three-quarters of far-Left supporters agree with Charlie Hebdo’s no-holds-barred approach to poking fun at religion, while 51 per cent of those who back the centre-right party of the former president, Nicolas Sarkozy, think the magazine went too far.
Angry says
Israeli beauty queen’s selfie with Miss Lebanon during Miss Universe contest causes stir
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/lebanon/11353580/Israeli-beauty-queens-selfie-with-Miss-Lebanon-during-Miss-Universe-contest-causes-stir.html
An extract:
An Israeli beauty queen’s selfie has caused a stir in Lebanon, with some Lebanese calling for their country’s contestant at the Miss Universe pageant to be stripped of her title for consorting with the enemy.
mortimer says
Cameron has decided to use his legal defence training to defend FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION.
A good place to start is with statements made by American supreme court justices about blasphemy!
U.S. law values and permits the right to blaspheme.
-Justice Clark in 1952 wrote: “…it is enough to point out that the state has no legitimate interest in protecting any or all religions from views distasteful to them. … It is not the business of government in our nation to suppress real or imagined attacks upon a particular religious doctrine.”
-Justice Frankfurter noted that beliefs “…dear to one may seem the rankest ‘sacrilege’ to another,” and added concerning “sacrilegious” speech: “…history does not encourage reliance on the wisdom and moderation of the censor.”
thomas pellow says
Meanwhile, in U.K-
“More than 1,500 British kids are being groomed for JIHAD”
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/420721/British-kids-are-being-groomed-for-jihad
mortimer says
David Cameron is to be commended for becoming a born-again defender of freedom.
I’m delighted that he has finally seen the light, but said that it took Charlie Hebdo assassinations to bring him round.
Hopefully, David Cameron will inspire people as Churchill did to defend our freedom of speech and our right to blaspheme. That right to blaspheme is the basis of modern England and the United Kingdom.
eib says
Mr. Cameron, you claim that offense is all right, what about actual substantive critique of Islam based on scripture, law, tradition & history? How do you feel about discrediting Muslim gaslighting?
thomas pellow says
And then there’s P.M Cameron’s side-kick, Ms May-
“PETER HITCHENS: Don’t like the PC mob? Well now that makes YOU a terror threat ”
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2915032/PETER-HITCHENS-Don-t-like-PC-mob-makes-terror-threat.html#ixzz3PChiraJn
Jay Boo says
Even some in the Left are finally saying enough is enough.
Groveling to Islam only encourages more bad behavior.
When politicians and the media of the West apologize for Islam, the imams and clerics seize upon it to limit critical thinking by Muslims with doubts about Islam.
Near the end of the following video clip there is an example of this.
Jay Boo says
The link that I listed above cuts in too late
The whole video clip here
Geoff Miller says
Cameron is a two faced PR man.
He says the “media” has rights. No mention of individual rights.
he says there is a right to offend – but only within the law.
Analyse British law and you will find that our freedom of speech is tightly circumscribed.
If anyone says that something you have said or written is a “hate crime” you are judged guilty even if you had no such intention.
Now, immediately after the charlie Hebdo shootings, and all the spin over freedom of speech, we face even tighter restrictions.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2915032/PETER-HITCHENS-Don-t-like-PC-mob-makes-terror-threat.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2902762/This-freedom-killed-Little-little-piece-piece-LITTLEJOHN-State-cede-ground-terrorists-wake-Paris-massacre.html
Read these and weep….
wildjew says
Why did Fox News cave last night on the “no-go zone” enclaves in France?
Did Rupert Murdoch get call from Saudi prince Alwaleed bin Talal (demanding Fox get off this Muslims are taking over Europe thing) or from an angry PM Cameron?
Or did Murdoch get a call from President Francois Hollande?
Is this simply a coincidence? What gives? Fox News enemies are having a “field day” with Fox.
Should we expect an apology from Sean Hannity tomorrow?
Oliver says
Seems encouraging
abad says
As I once heard it from a liberal friend:
“Free speech guarantees me the right to say anything I want. Therefore I grant you the same right of free speech, but that does not guarantee that I will not act upon my words.”
I guess liberalism and Islam does have a lot in common. Both sides of the same coin.
profitsbeard says
Let’s just agreed that:
Everyone has the equal right to be offended.
(And, if you go all jihadi about it, you have the further right to be shot like a rabid raccoon.)
Ren says
Oh so now Mr. Cameron suddenly gets enlightened regarding free speech of which he’s condemning Mr. Spencer by banning him from entering Britain so he could exert free speech !!!
pumbar says
I think using the words “enlightened” and CaMoron in the same sentence might be pushing things too far. That fool couldn’t be enlightened even if strapped to a 1000W lighthouse bulb and a Fresnel lens. I just hope he goes in May so he can get back to chasing rabbits on his mum’s back lawn.
duh_swami says
David doe not appear to be a well man. His macho is lost if he ever had any.
Among other detriments he is a vacillating politician who bends whichever way the wind is strongest. It’s interesting how Allah has painted these fools into a corner, and now they don’t know what to do. Allah has perplexed them. The fantasy is suddenly not matching up to the reality, so now they sweat…
Craig says
people should have the right to be insulted .. Who are these islamists poeple thinking they can come to Europa and the Americas and tell us what we are free to say..
They are saying that we are free to do what they allow us to do.. I’m not having this at all…
eib says
The hypocrisy of the British government, I would not insult the queen by calling it hers, is beyond human appreciation.
anonsos says
people should have the right to be insulted .. Who are these islamists people thinking they can come to Europa and the Americas and tell us what we are free to say..
They are saying that we are free to do what they allow us to do.. I’m not having this at all…
Blitz2b says
LOL ….. Right on pumbar!
That was priceless!!
I can’t wait for 2016 when we evict king skunk ( black+ white ) from his “white palace”, so that he can go back to chasing golf balls in Hawaii on his own time, rather than the taxpayer’s.
pumbar says
Here’s hoping on both counts mate! 🙂
Lioness says
“…if someone says something offensive about Jesus…”
Well, they do, all the time, on TV, in print, everywhere. It is a “safe” humour for cowards on TV that will not criticize Islam but know it’s open season on Christianity. Spineless Cameron pays lip service to free speech, nothing more.
Clifford Hall says
I have no time for Cameron. I regard him as a cynical opportunist. But I note that when he doesn’t say what’s wanted you rubbish him and that when he does say what’s wanted you rubbish him just the same. Is it time to stop listening to you?
Mr Spencer
Rightly or wrongly you were excluded. Get over it.
Angemon says
Clifford Hall posted:
“Is it time to stop listening to you?”
Don’t let the door hit you on your way out.
winoceros says
Having a hard time with the idea of identifying hypocrites, are we?
An honest broker would say, “criticism is fine, and it’s something I’ve struggled with, in my effort to help others feel included. Maybe I’ve made some wrong decisions there in the past. But I see now that free speech cannot be censored by this government, and civil debate is the only mark of a truly free people. And you can quote me.”
See the difference?
Shepherding a public figure into a consistent position isn’t being petulant or whiny. It’s kind of morally justified and a position I’ve always seen Robert take. He is remarkably consistent, over a dozen years. To not point out the hypocrisy is the wishy-washy position. Like yours…you know, let bygones be bygones?
No. Only apology and free entry into UK is acceptable. The rest is kowtowing to the Muslim jihad of perceived slight that demands death and destruction. They are brainwashed dhimma, and it will obviously take a lot to restore the lion to winter.
Mirren10 says
”I have no time for Cameron. I regard him as a cynical opportunist. But I note that when he doesn’t say what’s wanted you rubbish him and that when he does say what’s wanted you rubbish him just the same.”
Oh boy, you really do have a problem with logic and comprehension, don’t you ?
A ‘cynical opportunist’ (and I agree that is precisely what camoron is) who will say whatever it takes to get re-elected, **has no truth in him**.
So, obviously, *whatever* he says is rubbish, cynical manipulation, and *not to be trusted*. In other words, rubbish.
And I agree with Angemon; don’t let the door hit you on the way out. Your posts are illogical, silly, and indefensible, and when you are challenged on your nonsense your response is to sling adolescent insults .You bring nothing of value to the counter-jihad. Go and bore the pants off people on some other blog.