There is no indication that General Allen has any idea of what he is talking about. What “idea” does he propose to defeat? He probably means that he is going to destroy the idea that the Islamic State constitutes the new caliphate — which is no doubt one reason why the media establishment keeps churning out its endless stream of disingenuous and deceptive “ISIS is not Islamic” articles. But he is part of an Administration that has prohibited examination of the jihadis’ belief system; that is going to hamstring his efforts to combat it.
“Obama Envoy John Allen: No ‘Short-Term Solutions’ for Stopping Islamic State,” by Matthias Gebauer and Holger Stark, Spiegel, December 31, 2014:
In an interview, US General John Allen, Washington’s special envoy for countering the Islamic State, discusses why he believes the recent military campaign has reversed the terrorist group’s momentum but warns the battle to stop its ideology could take years.
General John Allen, 61, has served as special presidential envoy for the Global Coalition to Counter the Islamic State (IS) under US President Barack Obama since September. He previously served for three years as the deputy commander of the US forces in Afghanistan and Iraq.
In an interview with SPIEGEL, Allen uses the Arabic term “Daesh” when referring to IS in order to prevent having to say the word “state”.
No, it’s to avoid having to say the word “Islamic.”
…SPIEGEL: President Obama has stated he wants to “ultimately destroy and dismantle” IS. Was it a mistake to set such a maximalist goal that is almost impossible to reach?
Allen: It’s important to have a clear understanding of what we ultimately seek. I don’t believe that the president intended to imply the “annihilation” of Daesh. That is far beyond our thinking in this regard. We want to deny Daesh the ability to have safe havens either in Iraq or, ultimately, in Syria, to preclude its capacity to organize an existential threat to those countries. Annihilation requires a great deal of investment, resources and time. The defeating, dismantling and degrading of Daesh, and ultimately destroying the idea, is the long-term objective. It’s important to understand that what we’re undertaking as a coalition is much bigger, much broader, than simply the military role. The military role is the most conspicuous right now and attracts the most attention. We have five lines of effort that in the end converge to degrade and defeat Daesh: providing military support to our partners; impeding the flow of foreign fighters; stopping IS’s financing and funding; addressing humanitarian crises in the region; and exposing IS’s true nature….
SPIEGEL: Another huge challenge is IS’s propaganda. It was a brilliant move to declare an “Islamic State”. How are you going to deal with this?
Allen: We need not only to expose Daesh for the darkness that it is, but also to celebrate the values within countries that help defeat the attractiveness of Daesh. You asked about “destroying” before: We can only destroy Daesh when we destroy the attractiveness of its brand. When you can defeat the idea, then you have destroyed the organization. We want to build capacity in countries in the region and the Coalition to reduce its attractiveness for recruiting….
Angemon says
The longer the islamic state lasts, the more attractive it becomes: surely allah wouldn’t let them thrive if they were not embodying true islam. You want to destroy its attractiveness? Then start using the big guns.
mortimer says
The top US generals are calling for ideological warfare against the prime directive of Islam: JIHAD.
The Egyptian president Sisi is calling for ideological warfare against the prime directive of Islam: JIHAD.
The top soldiers all get it: ISLAM IS THE MOST WARLIKE FAITH.
bobm says
$iSi still has a black smudge on forehead; Obama still relies on a plethora of brotherhood seers to read his stools…meanwhile U.S is 18 TRILLION in debt….and it’s a hard …it’s a hard…it’s a hard rains ..gonna fall!… .. John 3:16..
Jack HOLAN says
The difference between General Sisi and General Allen is that General Sisilnows EXACTLY what his enemy is, how it feels, all it’s mutations and if you don’t fight it every second of revert day the battle can turn on you. General Allen understands the enemy in the abstract but may not match every turn and pace of this War of Civilizations. It would behoove General Allen to humble himself, spend 2 weeks with General SiSi or Israeli Intel and COS with 2 days a month refreshers and updates
bobm says
@Jack.. but is that permissible under the agenda of Caesar?(Obama).. his meltdown agenda?..
voegelinian says
You ignore one giant blind spot in Sisi that can only be explained one of two ways: Sisi is either suffering from a strange schizophrenia, or he is practicing taqiyya. The blind spot is that as a learned Muslim (and Sisi wrote a dissertation on the merits of jihad for his study in an American military school), Sisi must 1) admire (if not adore) Muhammad; and 2) know exactly what Muhammad did which to our sensibilities and principles (but not in the Islamic perspective) is evil, unjust, psychopathic and dangerous.
On that dissertation, Andrew Bostom reported back in August (a couple of remarks below within square brackets are my interjections) on the 2006 “mini-thesis” of Egyptian General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, written during his tenure at the Carlisle Barracks, PA, U.S. Army War College…:
As documented earlier, re-affirmed in an e-mail exchange, below, with the U.S. Army War College Library’s Acting Director, Tuesday, 8/6/13, I was unable to obtain a copy of el-Sisi’s thesis from the Inter-Library Loan office due to its “classification” status:
—–Original Message—–
From: Acting Director, U.S. Army War College Library
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:09 PM
To: Andrew Bostom
Cc: USARMY Carlisle Barracks AWC Mailbox LIBRARYR; USARMY Carlisle Barracks AWC Mailbox LIBRARYC
Subject: RE: Thesis via Inter-Library Loan/pdf?
Sir,
The U.S. Army War College Library is not able to fill your request. The paper’s caveat, “Distribution authorized to U.S. Government agencies only,” means it cannot be released to individuals or libraries outside the federal government.
The War College Library’s initial rejection of my request Friday 8/2/13 prompted a Freedom of Information Act demand for its release by Judicial Watch, which was honored Thursday, August 8, 2013 (thesis available here), [see Bostom’s original essay which I link at bottom for his internal links] albeit some hours after the thesis had inexplicably appeared online at Foreign Policy.
…Ignoring all of the doctrinal and historical evidence adduced herein, Eric Trager’s brief analysis of al-Sisi’s mini-thesis, grudgingly conceded that Springborg’s prior assessment that the General was “ an Islamist”, i.e., anti-secular, Sharia-supremacist, “may prove accurate.” But Trager concludes he is more likely “a Mubarak clone.”
Trager’s conclusion thus ignores the most important—and striking—difference between al-Sisi, and Mubarak: al-Sisi’s unequivocal rejection of secularism, and Mubarak’s embrace of it.
Then US Ambassador to Egypt Margaret Scobey’s Tuesday, May 19, 2009, confidential assessment of Mubarak emphasizes his support for a secular model of governance:
[Bostom now quoting Scobey:]
Mubarak is a classic Egyptian secularist who hates religious extremism and interference in politics. [emphasis added] The Muslim Brothers represent the worst, as they challenge not only Mubarak’s power, but his view of Egyptian interests. As with regional issues, Mubarak, seeks to avoid conflict and spare his people from the violence he predicts would emerge from unleashed personal and civil liberties. In Mubarak’s mind, it is far better to let a few individuals suffer than risk chaos for society as a whole. He has been supportive of improvements in human rights in areas that do not affect public security or stability. Mrs. Mubarak has been given a great deal of room to maneuver to advance women’s and children’s rights and to confront some traditional practices that have been championed by the Islamists, such as FGM [i.e., female genital mutilation, sanctioned by not merely “Islamists,” in Egypt, as noted earlier], child labor, and restrictive personal status laws.
Now publicly revealed, in full, al-Sisi’s expressed ideology—in both his 2006 mini-thesis, as well as its “leavening” by the recent comments he made to the Washington Post—must be featured prominently in the debate on military, and all other forms of aid to Egypt. Moreover, the fulfillment of his Islamic, Sharia-based vision—which will surely result in the ongoing abrogation of fundamental Western freedoms of conscience and speech, and continued legal discrimination against non-Muslims and women, [and why not also the most important Islamic objective of all — Jihad, including the stealth jihad of pretending to be a “reformer”? — or do the Jihad Watch Softies now believe in “Reformist Jihad”…?] that have plagued modern Egypt for two centuries, now—also merits serious consideration.
http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2013/08/11/why-egyptian-putschist-general-al-sisis-anti-secular-u-s-army-war-college-thesis-matters/
voegelinian says
One typographical error in my comment — the last paragraph “Now publicly revealed..” is continuing Bostom’s own words, no longer quoting Scobey (so my continued italicization was the error).
bobm says
islam will only die; when it is devoured by the Truth in Christ… it will wither in the vine its root of bitterness found out and burnt out by the root of Jessie; in the days soon to come… the five pillars of islam are more like…deceit…..bloodshed, envy(jealousy)… bitterness…fear….sorcery.. they cannot stand ..in the end of things.
The rengade says
General Allen: US must “defeat the idea” of the Islamic State.
The above is the same as defeating idea of Islam. Liberal media would say that the above sounds racist and Islamophobic.
Us should at least now call a spade a spade – due to shale oil they are no longer dependent on M/E for oil.
US says all these things and ends up supporting hardline Islamic regimes that support terrorism like Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi etc.
ISIS=US policy in Iraq + US support for Syrian insurgency (supporting good terrorists)+US support for Nuclear Pakistan
US has very strange bed fellows and has created a bloody mess in the middle east.
God bless America!! America is competing with ISIS to see who kills the most innocents in the 21st century!
US – if something aint broke, dont fix it:
– interfered in Iraq
– interfered in Syria
– interfered in Libya
– Interfered in Afghanistan
All of the above resulted in power vacuum with ISIS / Al Qeada consolidating their power base.
Body count 1 million + and counting.
Peter Buckley says
Allen West is yer man:
Papa Whiskey says
“In an interview with SPIEGEL, Allen uses the Arabic term ‘Daesh’ when referring to IS in order to prevent having to say the word ‘state’.”
No, it’s to avoid having to say the word “Islamic.”
He shoots! He scores!
mortimer says
The fallacy of ‘No True Scotsmen’ goes like this:
“No true Muslim would practice Islam like the Islamic State, so the Islamic state is not Islamic, because it isn’t ‘moderate’.”
This is also circular reasoning. How do we know that True Islam is ‘moderate’? The foundational texts of Islam say that Mohammed went on the warpath every six weeks. That’s moderate?
Diane Harvey says
“No, it’s to avoid having to say the word ‘Islamic.’”
Nobody but nobody in the MSM or this administration knows JIM.
Jihad
Islam
Muslim
Tradewinds says
“The idea?” Uh, the Islamic State (note key word: Islamic) literally exists, General. It’s way past the idea stage. We’ve got a Caliphate on our hands and it must be gotten rid of like the trash it is.
“In an interview with SPIEGEL, Allen uses the Arabic term “Daesh” when referring to IS in order to prevent having to say the word “state.”
Huh? Who you trying to kid? It’s the word ISLAMIC he doesn’t want to say. What cowardice. A General who won’t even say the name of the enemy.
wallace says
Well Allen, Daesh eh? the plan to destroy it’s attractiveness in my humble opinion is one fraught with difficulties. Its been attractive now for over 1400 years.So the way forward must be to shine a light on it and show it as being a nasty piece of work, beheadings, raping , crucifying, taking slaves , looting and generally misbehaving. Good luck with that one Allen. My plan would be to go in heavy, annihilate old Daesh, that done turn all the mosques in our countries into bingo halls. Respond to muslim complaints and criticism by telling them to shut their mouths, and get back to their sand pits. I know this is not very p.c , i hope i am not becoming an Islamaphobe , David Camoran would be so disapointed in me. I have just noticed my cat has been using my Quran as a scratching post, is this haram? am i doomed for hellfire ? will i have to drink molten brass, i hope not ,i suffer from heartburn. Muslims you are all nutjobs , big shock for you lot on judgement day.
PRCS says
“Respond to muslim complaints and criticism by telling them to… get back to their sand pits.”
1. That portion of America’s 3 million or so Muslims who were born here aren’t going anywhere, as they are, in fact, American citizens by birth.
2. Those who immigrated here, and have Naturalized, must state or demonstrate their desire to renounce U.S. citizenship.
3. Those who are here as visitors have a ‘date by’ to leave. If, as our government’s failure to enforce immigration laws persists, they want to.
4. Those here illegally will be given driver licences and the undying adoration of those we’ve elected to represent us.
Essentially, they’re here to stay and pie in the sky fantasies about telling them to ‘go home’ are just that.
“So the way forward must be to shine a light on it and show it as being a nasty piece of work…”
That IS the appropriate course, of course, but don’t expect General Allen to do that.
That’s a task for you and me.
Our elected officials can only perpetuate the “Islam means peace” nonsense so long as they can state that they just didn’t know.
A steady stream of polite, factually based letters to our elected officials are essential.
wallace says
hi prcs, my ref to sending them back to their sandpits, was tongue in cheek. It is however a little vision that helps me get off to sleep at night. All rounded up in the deserts with a cordon sanitaire around them. And on nights where sleep proves particularly evasive, i can hear enola gays engines like a mechanical lullaby. But back in the real world i have to content myself to pestering politicians and anyone else. Best wishes and in the words of Joan Baez May you have a strong foundation,when the winds of changes shift.
PRCS says
A few of my sentiments were tongue in cheek, too.
I agree that it would be nice to tell them where to get off, but we’re stuck with them.
Enjoy your day.
mortimer says
You cannot defeat the idea of CALIPHATE without defeating the idea of Islam’s prime directive of jihad. You cannot defeat the idea of jihad without defeating the idea that Islam is of divine, rather than of human origin. No doubt the generals understand what they are asking for: the total deprogramming of all Muslims.
Tradewinds says
Jihad? The U.S. army doesn’t have that word in their lexicon, mort. The new strategy is to try and defeat the enemy without using any of the words that describe them!
Alicia says
Oh, the irony. They want to safe havens in Iraq and Syria but almost everywhere else, including the USA is a safe haven for these jihadists.
Richie says
He wants to destroy the idea that there is a connection with the islamic state and Islam, which means this war is already lost
Darren says
If Sun Tzu was alive today he would have a field day mocking the ineffective and pathetic leadership in the U.S military and political class. I think the U.S foreign policy since after WW2 has done the exact opposite of what the Art of War said, as evidenced by our inability to win a war despite having the most powerful military the world has ever seen.
rubiconrest says
Why should we try to defeat the Islamic state? It is illustrating, for all to see, political Islam in all it’s horrid gory glory.
Myxlplik says
He basically admits that we are in a religious war against Islam, but thinks the way forward is to convince Muslims to kill each other, or disbelieve in the ideology until Islam is gone. He doesn’t know it, but that’s what he is proposing & thinks will win long term.
Buraq says
He’s probably called General Allen because he can’t be specific. Bad jokes aside, he probably means that constantly beating up ISIS will make them seem less attractive – like the way Communism seemed like a good idea at first, but gradually people saw through the leftist marketing when it failed to deliver.
What he misses, of course, is that the difference between Communism and Islam is that Islam has been around for around 1,400 years because it’s perceived as a religion. And Islam has never delivered, but always promises to!
The General is a clown, but a well-meaning clown who doesn’t know which way is up!
eib says
This is war.
make every Muslim in the West a hostage
for every Westerner killed by the ummah, let several of the perfect religion be executed
destroy them where they occupy3
annihilate them where they have conquered or are conquering
let not one in Scandinavia in particular survive
may the ummah bear public humiliation in all Europe
they will leave the West quickly when they find us fighting and taking back our spirit and our land.
cronk says
Looks like West has been given his marching orders and talking points. Islam has become the religion that must not be spoken or named.
Our elites want so bad to keep the PC/MC narrative going they are putting everyone in a straightjacket to prevent even the mere mention of Islam..
bobm says
Like seeking to deny that violence, robbery, murder, lies, trickery, etc. are alien to islam… without the written “bones of the body of islam… it collapses..as skin and mush….like pouring water on a fire… islam seeks to devour…. to eat….it is not motivated by Love.
MKG says
This old soldier has the task of putting the IS out of action. He and our military are quite capable. However, our politicians have tied his hands and feet with political correctness, so all he can do is bite at the heels of IS. it would be easy to annihilate IS through total war, and a lot of innocent people will get killed in the process. How can we destroy IS while holding on to our supposed Muslim friends?
As far as the fight against recruitment goes, the testimonies of IS deserters are very helpful. Many disillusioned youth have the idea of, “why should I stay here and be a nobody, just another human resource, a slave to the man, when I can be a soldier of Allah? I can fight and build a new nation, and be part of something big.” As we have learned here at JW as well as other sources, these youngsters found there is nothing in the IS except death, slavery and horror. Those that do like to stay are obviously mental and perhaps it is better for them to stay there than walk among us here. That is, until they bring jihad home. Yes, general Allen has a difficult task. What we need is a president who will cut the binding off his hands and feet so he can do the proper work of a soldier.
Salah says
Ther’s only ONE way to destroy the Islamic State, and it won’t cost us any military action; ask Michele Bachmann.
Egypt declares Muslim Brotherhood a terrorist group
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/12/25/egypt-declares-muslim-brotherhood-terrorist-group/
“If the decision of the interim government of Egypt is to consider the organisation of the Muslim Brotherhood a terrorist organisation, then the United States should follow.” (Michele Bachmann)
http://bachmann.house.gov/daily-news-egypt-michele-bachmann-writes-muslim-brotherhood-history-terror
Islamisdeath says
Everyone i know under 50 considers Michelle Bachman a nut. We are in a very bad place and the army of satan is marching in. The truth is considered lies and lies the truth in this evil new world of “change” the evil imam obama has brought.
Imam obama embraces his bretrn in the muslim brotherhood and places them in positions to learn and control much in this war against evil we are now in.
duh_swami says
it’s amazing that they pay big bucks for people to sit around and day dream out loud…
Davegreybeard says
@cronk
“Looks like West has been given his marching orders and talking points. Islam has become the religion that must not be spoken or named.”
Either that’s a typo, cronk, or you are greatly confused as to the positions and understandings of our military men.
Lt Col. ALLEN WEST (ret.) understands our Jihadi enemy full well and publically condemns Islam in an unabashed and full throated manner. See the YouTube clip provided by Peter Buckley, above.
He is also a highly educated conservative who believes in limited government, lower taxes, and individual freedom. In short, an outstanding example of a freedom loving patriot, who believes in America and the American way.
If we were a sane society, Col. ALLEN WEST would be our next President.
General John Allen, on the other hand, is the individual of current discussion, who is either ignorant, lying, or so constrained by politics that he couldn’t say shit if he had a mouthful.
Bezelel says
General Allen, With all due respect, Just where the fuch do you think these IDEAS come from? There is a book that everyone of the evildoers read and it is not the US Constitution or the UCMJ. They call it a koran. It tells everything you need to know about their big idea. ” Find the Source of the Problem and Eliminate IT”
R/S
Luciano says
It seems that most of the ‘stand up’ generals on the subject of Islam have either been retired or purged. The rest fall in line with the Obama propaganda. Nothing bad has anything to do with Islam. Islam is the religion of peace. Period.
They now use words to dance around the truth. Daesh, AlKaida, BocoHaram, IS, ISIS. etc. Anything to disassociate the ugliness in the Islamic world with the term ‘Islam’.
Remember General Casey CO of Fort Hood during that terrorist attack. His first comment was not about the dead and wounded soldiers…but a concern that this event would hamper the Army’s multicultural policies.
General Ray Odierno is the exception. I think that Ray is a stand up guy and tells it like it is.
One man’s opinion,
Luciano
The Cycling Tuscan
James Key says
It sickens me to see a Marine Corps General kowtow to p.c. We need more Chesty Pullers and less Allens.
Kepha says
Islam is pregnant with the idea of Daesh from its inception just as Judaism has been pregnant with the idea of Zionism ever since the Babylonian Captivity. The difference is that Judaism yearns for a sliver of territory; Islam years for a political domination of the globe from a clear geopolitical base.
The prophets of the exile–Jeremiah and later–are full of yearning for a return to Zion, as are a number of the Psalms(especially 137). Jesus’ apostles themselves, as soon as they see that the Messiah has risen from the dead, anxiously ask if Jesus will at that point restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6). Throughout the centuries of Exile, Jews have always toasted to the next year in Jerusalem. Hence, something like Zionism all but had to emerge among the Jews sooner or later.
For Islam, however, the ideal state has always been a Caiiphate; and Islam fragmented over the question of who should hold such an office. Ataturk’s abolition of the Caliphate was a great psychological blow to the Islamic world, and prompted the Kilafat movement in India, which was the most serious anti-British movement there since the Sepoy Mutiny. With the failure of various modernizing movements in the Dar-ul-Islam, a renewed Caliphate cannot but have a certain resonance.
Bezelel says
Isaiah 35:10
And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
One of my many favorites.
Nancy Assaf says
This man’s answers to the questions posed sound like a college professor lecturing someone about a topic he has no practical or actual experience with. It sounds as though he read a dissertation and decided it was the truth and must be universally accepted. Hogwash.
Ron Roloff says
How can you defeat an idea if you refuse to identify it ? Reading ” Islam Muhammad and the Koran A Documented Analysis ” by Dr. Labib Mikhail would be a good start.