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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

India: Muslim leader says, “Every child is born a Muslim”

Jan 5, 2015 11:48 am By Robert Spencer

Asaduddin_Owaisi_650This supremacist sentiment is undeniably ugly, but it should not be a surprise to anyone. It is based on a hadith in which Muhammad is depicted as saying: “No babe is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist.” (Sahih Muslim 6426)

“Ghar wapsi row: Now Owaisi says Islam is the real home of all religions,” PTI, January 5, 2015:

Hyderabad: AIMIM leader Asaduddin Owaisi has stirred a controversy with remarks that every child is born a Muslim as he locked horns with right-wing Hindu outfits over their ‘ghar wapsi’ programme.

“Every child is born a Muslim. His parents and society convert him to other religions,” Owaisi said, apparently in a tit-for-tat to hardline Hindu organisations which have been claiming that ancestors of all Indians were Hindus.

“Islam is the real home of all religions. There is no forced conversion in Islam. It is you who need to come home, but we can’t give you money for that,” the Hyderabad MP said on Saturday night on the eve of Eid Milad Un-Nabi, the birth anniversary of Prophet Mohammed. Video footages were carried by TV news channels today.

Owaisi’s statement drew strong reactions from political parties with senior NCP leader and Rajya Sabha member Majeed Memon calling it a “stunt” to get votes.

“It is a stunt by Owaisi for vote-catching. Everybody has the right to follow his religion and convert to other religion if he wants to. What Owaisi has said is not right,” he said.

“Such activities harm the nation,” he said.

As his comments triggered a row, Owaisi said it is a part of his “belief system” that Islam is the real home of all religions.

“It was a public speech. It was a celebration of Prophet Mohammad. I said these things in a 90-minute speech. It is our belief system.

“In a democracy, I have the permission to put forth my views. You are free to disagree. I am not pushing it down somebody’s throat,” he said.

Not yet, anyway.

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Filed Under: Featured, India, Islamic supremacism Tagged With: AIMIM, Asaduddin Owaisi


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Comments

  1. Oceanside says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 11:52 am

    So . . . any Muslim who believes this is free to view every non-Muslim as an “apostate”. Nice.

  2. somehistory says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 12:00 pm

    This is one of the most disgusting things ever written or uttered. And one of the biggest lies every propagated.

    • mariam rove says

      Jan 5, 2015 at 12:21 pm

      Did you not know that Islam is all about lies and depictions? M

      • somehistory says

        Jan 5, 2015 at 1:21 pm

        Yes, I know. This is just so disgusting that I had to say so. I’d rather be dead than be muslim and believe in the rot of islam. Liars…have always hated lies and those who tell them, knowing what they are saying are lies.

        • mariam rove says

          Jan 5, 2015 at 1:56 pm

          I know you do! I was just having a good time!!! I deal with Muslims all day long as I was born and raised one. They are delusional about their religion. So delusional that make someone with homicidal psychosis look sane. M

      • particolor says

        Jan 5, 2015 at 11:22 pm

        Are we Sure Mohammuds Dead ??

    • Anushirvan says

      Jan 5, 2015 at 4:31 pm

      “This is one of the most disgusting things ever written or uttered. And one of the biggest lies every propagated.”

      Well…yes, but then again, that is what Muslims actually believe, given Hakimiyya and Tawhid and all that.

  3. Neil Jennison says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 12:07 pm

    So every Jew is born a Muslim too?

    Someone should tell Abu Funun.

    • Jack Diamond says

      Jan 5, 2015 at 6:29 pm

      Yes. This is bedrock Islam. All mankind was submitted to Allah and are Muslims. All the Biblical prophets bowed to Allah and were Muslims. Islam is the only religion Allah recognizes (Judaism and Christianity as we know them are innovations and not recognized by Allah). The Biblical patriarchs and Jesus himself were Muslims who preached Islam and foretold the coming of Muhammad, If someone is not a Muslim it comes from being misled or choosing to be renegade. A renegade is a criminal, Allah hates you and you are destined for Hellfire. Therefore, Muslims do you a favor by waging Jihad on you or subjugating you or compelling your conversion (reversion).

      3:67 -Ibrahim was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a true Muslim.” 2:133 -Ismaeel, Isaac and Jacob’s offspring will submit to Allah as Muslims.” 10:84 -Moses/Musa said O my people! If you believed in Allah, then put your trust in him if you are Muslims.” 2:126; 3:84 –all the prophets were Muslims with Allah’s confirmation. 61:6 “Jesus/Isa said I am the Messenger of Allah sent to you confirming the law (which came) before me and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad (Muhammad).” 3:19: The religion with Allah is Islam; 3:85: “whoever (even) seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him”; “the whole earth has been declared unto me a mosque” Sahih Muslim b.004 n1062. Everything true previous to Islam was incorporated into the Qur’an. The so called religions of Judaism and Christianity were abrogated and replaced and Allah recognizes only Islam. Islam is both a grand theft and a replacement of every belief system on earth. Owaisi is correct “it is our belief system” though he is incorrect claiming there is no forced conversion in Islam. Islam is nothing if not coercion, and “forced” conversion (according to the scholars) does not refer to what Muslims force you to say, just forcing you to believe it.

      • Neil Jennison says

        Jan 6, 2015 at 11:21 am

        Indeed. But my point was the RS posted elsewhere that Abu Funun had been defending Hitler by saying that the Jews were evil as a race and needed rooting out of Europe for the good of everyone.

        This seems to contradict the idea that everyone is born Muslim.

        Not that it surprises me that Islam is full of conradictions.

        • Jack Diamond says

          Jan 6, 2015 at 12:56 pm

          The Qur’an teaches the Jews are and will always be the greatest enemies of the Muslims but there are good Jews. Jews who become Muslims. As Tantawi Grand Imam of Al Azhar said “all Jews are not the same. The good ones become Muslims.” Ibn Kathir on 1:6-7 “the Jews abandoned practicing the religion (i.e. Islam) while the Christians lost the true knowledge (i.e Islam). This is why “anger” descended upon the Jews, while being described as “led astray” is more appropriate of the Christians. Those who know, but avoid implementing the Truth, deserve anger, unlike those who are ignorant.” Jews are in rebellion and defiance and their race is cursed 5:12-13 “because of their breach of the covenant we cursed them and made their heart grow hard..you will not cease to discover deceit in them.” 2:61 “and they were covered with humiliation and misery and they drew upon themselves the wrath of Allah. That was because they disbelieved in Allah’s Proofs, signs and ayats and killed the Prophets. That was because they disobeyed and rebelled.” and as ibn Kathir comments “this will continue (the wrath) meaning it will never cease.” Everyone is born Muslim means it is Allah’s right that dar al-harb eventually cease to exist and there only be dar al-Islam.

      • Emmanuel Karavousanos says

        Jan 6, 2015 at 12:13 pm

        Most humans are wise enough to recognize that first, and above all, we are simply human beings. Whitehead wrote that it requires a very unusual mind to undertake the analysis of the obvious. Why? Because we fail to see the obvious and the above is a perfect example. .

  4. Bantwal says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 12:13 pm

    He says everyone is born a Muslim, Christians say everyone is born sinner? Oh God, please make everyone born on earth a human.

    • gravenimage says

      Jan 5, 2015 at 9:40 pm

      More stupid false moral equivalence.

    • Mirren10 says

      Jan 6, 2015 at 8:13 am

      Christians may believe everyone is born a sinner, but they aren’t murdering, torturing, raping, beheading and crucifying, amputating limbs, and burning mosques in the name of Christ, and Christianity.

      Many muslims, however, carry out the crimes and atrocities listed above, in the name of mohammed, ‘allah’, and islam.

      You’ll have to do better than that, witless moral equivalencing doesn’t get any traction here. Try Huffpo, or loonwatch.

  5. john spielman says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 12:31 pm

    So “secular” Owaisi is using the “democracy” excuse to say this rubbish, while the hypocrite Owaisi will be among the first to advocate putting to death all people for slandering islam or muhammed-pbuh*, once sharia supercdeds democracy
    pbuh* -perpetual banishment unto hell!
    i

  6. Jaladhi says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 12:56 pm

    The usual Muslim delusion about everyone being born a Muslim. These guys are such hypocrites and liars that one wonders if they totally brain dead or are very clever. On the other hand followers of a criminal cult want everybody to be in their cult such as Islam and hence such nonsensical talk!!

  7. ruth says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 12:59 pm

    The cleric is correct.. All of mankind are born in the image of Adam.. And Genesis 3-22 says Adam was like the serpent who taught him good and evil…This is the reason we must be born again….
    Man in Adam’s wretched condition graduate to the second death when they accept Islam..
    Islam denies original sin, Jesus death and resurrection and that Jesus is Son of God…..This is satan’s way of holding on to unregenerated children…Islam is satan’s kingdom…

    • somehistory says

      Jan 5, 2015 at 1:18 pm

      Uh, the devil, serpent, didn’t teach Adam *good*…he would have learned good from the True God. What those verses mean is that Adam and his wife decided that they wanted to choose for themselves what they should and should not do…this is what the *knowledge of good and bad* is. Making all decisions on what is to be good for one and bad for one without relying on the laws and standards set by our Creator.
      God had already told them, showed them, the garden and what He had created for them, “all the trees” from which He said they could eat, and it was all “good.”

      islam is just another manifestation of satan’s control over some of mankind. And isn’t *man…infestation…* a good word for what islam does…infests man.

    • Laura says

      Jan 6, 2015 at 6:45 am

      You need to accept that we are not born in the ‘image’ of anyone, we are simply born, innocent and vulnerable. it’s then down to our parents to raise us, nurture us, and guide into being decent human beings.
      There is no god, there is no supreme, invisible deity , there is just you/me/us and the great wide world. We make the most of what we have, we try our best to have an interesting, productive life…that is all we will ever have and that is all we will ever be…there is nothing more, there is certainly nothing more to come after death.
      Religions and the need for prayer are simply a waste of time and effort when you could be doing something useful. Religion has no basis in truth or fact…there is not a scrap of evidence to support the belief in god. To insist that there is a god is foolishness beyond measure.

      • Jay Boo says

        Jan 6, 2015 at 7:39 am

        Laura
        Why did you chose that particular comment by ruth?
        Of all comments that you could have chosen, you choose ruth’s that said:
        “Islam denies original sin, Jesus death and resurrection and that Jesus is Son of God”
        Muslims are bothered by such words even more than those who claim not to believe in a god.
        Remember that unlike Jesus, Muhammad was a sinner — by his own admission Muhammad was a sinner Qur’an 30:9

        You also, rather than deal with the blatant deception of the Muslim leader who said ““Every child is born a Muslim. His parents and society convert him to other religions,” you go off topic with a claim to know for a fact that “There is no god.”

      • Mirren10 says

        Jan 6, 2015 at 9:00 am

        Any comment to make on the article ?

        Because, you see, if everyone is born a muslim, there is the death penalty in islam for whoever rejects it. Which makes *everyone* a potential victim of murderous muslims, including *you*.

        *No other religion mandates this, only **islam**.

      • somehistory says

        Jan 6, 2015 at 12:22 pm

        You wrote: …there is nothing more, there is certainly nothing more to come after death.”
        *******************************************************************************************************
        I’d like to see your proof of this statement. Have you been dead and there was nothing more?
        If you know something, you should share it with the scientific world…and the rest of us.

        • Laura says

          Jan 7, 2015 at 6:57 am

          Carl Sagan said; ‘Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.’
          The Christian and Muslim insistence on an after-life is an ‘extraordinary claim’ yet they can provide no ‘evidence.’
          Therefore, in the absence of such evidence it’s sensible to assume that the claim is probably nothing more than a myth.

        • somehistory says

          Jan 7, 2015 at 11:05 am

          Laura,

          Ah. Now I understand you. You are one who *assumes*.

          But you did not give any proof of your *assumptions.* If you cannot prove your statement of nothing after death…which you said is *certain*…then your *certain assumptions* are no better than a believers belief.
          BTW: Carl said that he *wished that he believed in God.* Since he is now dead…can you prove that he does not have his *extraordinary evidence* you say is necessary?
          The fact that you liken the Christian belief to the one of islam shows just how little you understand about Christianity.

  8. ruth says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 1:10 pm

    “No babe is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist.” (Sahih Muslim 6426)
    This statement is true….. The Bible says Islam is the same deception as was original sin…which means every one is born a muslim.In the likeness and image of fallen Adam…..They must accept Jesus as Son of God to erase this wretched condition..
    Adam was a Son of God until he believed the serpents Islamic lies…
    God said in Genesis 3-22 that Adam became like the one who taught him good and evil..Adam became like the serpent because he believed the serpent’s lies which enabled the serpent to indwell him…The koran does likewise..and brings the second death…of rev. ..
    The only way out of this tangled mess is to accept Jesus, the Son of God…

    • somehistory says

      Jan 5, 2015 at 1:28 pm

      I have faith in the Son of God, Jesus Christ, but I have to disagree with some of what you have posted.

      We are not all bron muslim. No one….repeat…no one is born muslim…not even those who grow up being taught the pot of lies that muslims believe and spout to their offspring. If you wish to believe you personally were born muslim and have changed, okay, but don’t include me in your assessment.
      Being *born a sinner* is not the same as being born a muslim. islam teaches people to *sin* in the most horrific ways babies can’t even dream in their worst nightmares.

      • Yokel says

        Jan 5, 2015 at 5:04 pm

        Let us imagine that Satan, having observed Christ redeem all of mankind (if they choose to accept his gift) on the cross, has realised that his game is lost. That his only chance now of poking God in the eye is to take as many people as he can to Hell with him. What better way to do it than to develop a new religion.

        In his Koran Allah says that he is the best of all deceivers. The Christian Bible tells us that Satan is the master of lies. The doctrine of Original Sin can also be twisted to fit into these deceptions. Christians will say that Original Sin (everyone is born a sinner) separates God from His people, and must be dealt with (by accepting Christ as Redeemer). Allah says that everyone is born a Muslim, and that they should return to that condition at the earliest opportunity.

        Having pondered on this, I am convinced that this is further evidence that Islam was indeed foretold in the Bible, just not in the way that Muslims wish. We are warned in many places to be on our guard against those who would attack us. “Wolf in sheep’s clothing” is but one.

        • somehistory says

          Jan 5, 2015 at 5:32 pm

          Jesus said He came to give life in abundance, but the “thief comes to steal, kill and destroy (John 10:10).” The thief tries to disguise himself in order to gain entry to the sheep.
          The Bible tells us and warns us of a lot of things having to do with the deception by the devil and his *agents.* Being born of a man and woman who were no longer perfect, Adam and Eve, is not the same as *being born a muslim* with all that entails.
          The guy is a liar as was his role model as is the devil. Anything is said to get the gullible to believe and lose out on the life Jesus offers.

          I once was waiting in a hospital to take a neighbor home after having a baby and a strange looking man was also in the room, waiting on his wife who had also had a baby. We got into a discussion and something he said made me ask if he had ever read the Bible. His answer was that he was a warlock, and read the Bible backward…everything it said to do, he did the opposite.
          This is what muslims do. This *backwards* reading is what their role model did and commanded his followers to do. Their unholy book is proof of it. Straight from satan it is.

    • Jay Boo says

      Jan 6, 2015 at 7:52 am

      ruth

      Adam has no earthly father, but was created by God which is not the same as “son of God” in the literal sense as you wrote it.

      “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

      • Jay Boo says

        Jan 6, 2015 at 8:09 am

        I do not believe that the ancient writers of Genesis meant ‘son’ in the literal sense.

  9. Angemon says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 1:27 pm

    “In a democracy, I have the permission to put forth my views. You are free to disagree.

    Or to laugh at the absurdity of it.

  10. ruth says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 1:27 pm

    2 Corinthians 11…
    3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
    4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him….14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light…
    The angel of light is mohammed/satan..He beings the koran gospel that teaches another Jesus, Issa, and another spriit -allah……
    The Islamic serpent is still corrupting minds about Christ…Islam teaches that Jesus is not Son of God.., that He did not die and was not resurrected.. and then covers his tracks by saying there was no original sin…therefore men do not need salvation of the Son of God..through the death and resurrection of Jesus…

  11. Know Thy Enemy says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 2:30 pm

    “In a democracy, I have the permission to put forth my views. You are free to disagree. I am not pushing it down somebody’s throat,”

    I actually agree with Owaisi here. He can indeed put forth his views even if his future intentions are less than noble. Hindus need to come up with a solid system to counter Islam. The quality of current breed of anti-Islamic Hindus (Shiv Sena, RSS, and other nutcases)is ridiculously shoddy. There is no way they are going to be able to stop Islam.

    There are no feasible shortcuts either!

    IMO the only way Hindus can stop Islam in India is if tens of thousands of educated* Hindus become monks and dedicate their lives to studying Indian religions and teach them to everyone in the country.

    *educated especially in human psychology, among other things.

    • john spielman says

      Jan 5, 2015 at 3:21 pm

      you are correct but; muslims will use “democracy” only as long as it is useful to them. Once either by excessive birth rate or by murder and intimidation, they can get sharia law introduced, democracy will be dissolved and the brutal fascist islam takes over and suppress freedom of all.

  12. Salah says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 2:52 pm

    In Sahih Muslim 4.903, we read that Muhammad used to preach the Qur’an to … the devils.
    And, Muhammad’s devil became… Muslim!!!

    http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2011/10/muhammad-and-satan_24.html

  13. Champ says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 3:20 pm

    India: Muslim leader says, “Every child is born a Muslim”

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    More lies courtesy islam and company …

    And here’s a question for muslim’s to consider:

    Question: “I am a Muslim. Why should I consider becoming a Christian?”

    Answer: http://www.gotquestions.org/Muslim-Christian.html

  14. Wellington says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 5:21 pm

    Hell no. I wasn’t. And I say this with complete certitude, typical and disgusting Islamic appropriation of everything, in this instance all babies, notwithstanding.

    I have never been a Muslim and I will never be a Muslim. Pure certitude here. Bet my life on it.

  15. Dave J says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 5:25 pm

    Under Islam every child is born a prisoner.

    And then raised to become a violent jihadi terrorist. Or a deceptive arrogant invader.

    Is this belief system the worst on the planet, or just one of the worst?

    • mortimer says

      Jan 5, 2015 at 8:02 pm

      “Under Islam every child is born a prisoner. And then raised to become a violent jihadi terrorist.”

      Yes. Islam is worst form of child abuse: it teaches children to hate ‘others’ and women and commit suicide to murder those who merely disagree.

      • particolor says

        Jan 5, 2015 at 11:32 pm

        Best and Truest one here Dave !!

  16. Karyakarta1992 says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 5:58 pm

    In reality, nobody is born into any religion. Newborn males in Moslem families are converted into Islam in an medieval Arab ritual called variously “Sunnah”, “Khutna” etc. Google to know more about it. Hint: It goes snip, snip!

  17. Phil says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 7:00 pm

    Verily Allah is wise, merciful!! Foolish Kaffir – how can you deny the truth?
    Children are born with no impulse control. If their least desires are thwarted – do they not react with rage? Surely this is true of the faithful?
    Children are born dependent, and focused entirely on their own needs and desires. Is this not the behaviour extolled by the Dar al-Islam?
    Children are born without the ability to rationally consider the consequences of their actions and modify their behaviour as the situation requires. Even infidel sons of apes and pigs must see that the behaviour of the jihadis, the most admirable of believers in these latter days, demonstrates just such an absence of rationality??
    What a repulsive islamofascist.

    • Dave J says

      Jan 5, 2015 at 9:28 pm

      Yes, impulse control (or not).

      This is what is so disturbing about religion in general but Islam in particular.

      Once a religion proceeds past faith, hope and charity into a focus on infidelities (real or imagined) and the Draconian punishments required by the True Believers, we are now in the realm of vociferous pathology, right up to and including capital punishment.

      One cannot help being impressed by the ritualistic and hyper-emotional behavior around the various “pilgrimages”, with the hypnosis-inducing circling of the idols, the 5x a day kneeling, the overall emphasis on “purity”. The froth-mouthed, yet factually dubious claims of “victimhood” and “Islamophobia”. The arrogant demands for entitlement and claims of superiority.

      No one is born anything but human, regardless of any religion or nation state on the planet.

      But only one philosophy seems to be willing to eliminate everyone else in it’s quest for domination and that is Islam.

  18. mortimer says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 7:59 pm

    ” I am not pushing (my views) down somebody’s throat (in India),” he said, as they are in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghastlistan, Iraq, Iran, ISIS, Libya, Malaysia, Indonesia, Somalia, Sudan, Chad, Boko Haram, etc.

  19. RaymondofCanada says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 8:01 pm

    Psalm 51:5 says: Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. I guess Islam could be reckoned there.

  20. tedh754 says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 9:43 pm

    I guess that is why babies are born helpless.

  21. gravenimage says

    Jan 5, 2015 at 9:53 pm

    India: Muslim leader says, “Every child is born a Muslim”

    This supremacist sentiment is undeniably ugly, but it should not be a surprise to anyone…
    ………………………………………

    Yes, this is supremacist—but it is also much worse than that. Muslims don’t just believe that some people are non-Muslim—they believe that any non-Muslim has deliberately and perversely *rejected* Islam.

    “Kaffir” doesn’t just translate as “non-Muslim”—instead, it means “concealer of the truth”.

    That’s why Muslims consider all Infidels fair game for oppression, enslavement, and murder.

    Never mind that this makes no sense, and even applies to people who have never heard of Islam.

  22. Edward Cline says

    Jan 6, 2015 at 4:47 am

    One must shake one’s head at what passes for intellectual discourse in Islam. It’s pathetic. Camel dung for brains.

  23. Marian says

    Jan 6, 2015 at 4:57 am

    I thought that some of the Church Fathers taught that the soul is born Christian and only becomes something else through miseducation, an idea, like many others, particularly in the hadith, which were borrowed/co-opted/adapted from Christians when Christians came under Muslim rule and/or converted to Islam. Of course, while the Church Fathers have been afforded a certain respect in Christendom, not every idea they held was canonized in Christianity in a manner similar to the weight of the hadith in Islam.

    • Mirren10 says

      Jan 6, 2015 at 8:44 am

      What is your point ?

      Christians aren’t murdering people who disagree with them, unlike many mohammedans.

  24. ApolloSpeaks says

    Jan 6, 2015 at 5:34 am

    IF EVERY CHILD IS BORN MOSLEM

    then every unbelieving parent raising their kids to be nonMoslems are murdering their souls- a capital crime in Islam.

    http://www.apollospeaks.com

  25. GKP says

    Jan 6, 2015 at 5:55 am

    Every child either Hindus or Christians or Muslims are born human it is the Taquiya ( lies which spread Islam) which convert them terrorist and criminal’s. Stop Taquiya to stop criminalization of humanity.

  26. Lesley Robinson says

    Jan 6, 2015 at 7:01 am

    More holy crap from the religion of piss…

  27. Lance Risbey says

    Jan 6, 2015 at 12:28 pm

    As an atheist & Psychiatrist, I know something about Mental Health & Mental Illness. I agree with Laura (there is no God) and Phil (all are born babies, their self absorbed Primary Narcissism being necessary for their survival, and masked by being helpless & adorable). Those Christians who say “Christians don’t go around murdering people”, while correct as things are now & recently, forget that after a millennium of Christianity there was a lot of murder, torture & witch-burning done in the name of Christ. Of course, Jesus taught against such barbaric behaviour & one can argue that wayward Crusaders, Spanish Inquisitors & even Bible-bashing KKK were not true Christians. Of course, it’s known history that Islam became violent within decades of being founded by a misogynistic, progressively more violent & delusional pedophile. In 711 AD, the Islamic Moors invaded Spain @ took control within one year. It took centuries for the Christian Spanish kings to finally drive them out (their last stronghold being the Alhambra in Granada.
    It’s my view that the Christian fundamentalists in commenting with Bible quotes & dogmatic beliefs have little hope of combatting the ideology of IS & the Caliphate (despite modern Christianity being non-militant) as all fond of devout religiosity share in the narcissism of infantile mental processes. (I imagine I can hear the Christians & Jews & Hindus getting defensive, while the Muslims reading this may get offended & then offensive; remembering that being offended is like seeing beauty – it’s “in the eye of the beholder”.
    Most of the comments leave me unimpressed. Where is the great human capacity to think for oneself? With narcissists and babies, what’s missing is the other great human (humane) capacity – empathy, which is preceded by developing Theory of Mind (the awareness that others also have thoughts & feelings). This and empathy need to develop so that infants grow into fully human beings.
    So babies are born human in potential but (in the mental & emotional realms) still sub-human. Margaret Mahler, a Neo-Freudian, referred to the first 4 to 5 years as “The Psychological Birth of the Human Infant”. So, if being Muslim means being brainwashed like an unthinking, abused child, infantile in having poor or no impulse-control, and lacking theory-of-mind & empathy, then in a perverse sort of way the outrageous claim “All are born Muslim” is psychologically true. Not that Muslims would like me comparing them to (subhuman) babies! The challenge of becoming truly human is to grow beyond this narcissistic stage of infantile emotionally stunted growth (as Narcissists, while having “grown up” mentally & physically, can be & often are bullies, bossy, cunning & manipulative) into emotional & relational maturity. As John Lennon sang, “Imagine there’s no countries,
    It isn’t hard to do,
    Nothing to kill or die for,
    And no religion too….
    Imagine all the people living life as one……” (or similar). Helpful books include “People of the Lie” by M. Scott Peck (a Christian Psychiatrist) & “Against Religion” by Tamas Pataki (a Philosopher).
    Here Endeth the lesson!!

    • Know Thy Enemy says

      Jan 6, 2015 at 2:32 pm

      @Lance Risbey and @Laura

      “As John Lennon sang, “Imagine there’s no countries,
      It isn’t hard to do,
      Nothing to kill or die for,
      And no religion too….
      Imagine all the people living life as one……”
      ”

      I suppose you posted these lyrics because you agree with them. Tell me something- Say a Taliban like Islamic force begins to spread and take over your country (Yes, I know you don’t like countries and boundaries but in our hypothetical scenario countries do exist). Let’s make the situation even more serious- The Islamic force expands in collusion with the country’s political and media leaders! What would the Atheist you do?

      As an Atheist, you probably believe just like Laura that “there is certainly nothing more to come after death.” Laura also said “We make the most of what we have, we try our best to have an interesting, productive life…that is all we will ever have and that is all we will ever be…there is nothing more”

      So what would you do in the above hypothetical scenario and why? Would you-

      1) Flee the country and save your life, since you know that dying for the country means cutting short the one and only life you have, that there would be no more “making the most of what we have and trying our best to have an interesting life”.

      2) Fight and take the risk of death, knowing full well that such a risk is very high. Why would the Atheist you choose this option?

      3) Something else! What would it be and why would you do it?

    • somehistory says

      Jan 6, 2015 at 8:25 pm

      Sub-human? DNA says a baby is just as much a human…before birth and after…as any adult…or any older person who believes themselves to be an adult and believes he/she thinks like an adult.
      You say you are *unimpressed* by the other comments here. So? I don’t recall caring.

      And as for declaring * there is no God*….you can no more prove that statement than Laura can prove that there is *nothing after death.*
      If you could not see the effects of wind, gravity and magnetism, you would likely decide that they didn’t exist either. And not believing, would not look for evidence. But that wouldn’t *prove* these things of *nature*…creation…do not exist. You seemingly have made up your mind that God does not exist and therefore see no evidence of Him. But that is not *proof* that there is no God.
      You have stated that you are an atheist and a psychiatrist. I believe you are an atheist from the evidence…although I have never seen or heard you.

  28. Lance Risbey says

    Jan 6, 2015 at 5:38 pm

    Know thy enemy, you’ve made a few assumptions about what I do or don’t believe. You seem to know stuff as if by magic!
    In John Lennon’s lyrics, the next line is “You may call me a dreamer … ”
    Of course I’m not such an idealist as to disregard nations & boundaries. My feet are firmly on the ground here. I agree with the saying “They only deserve freedom who are prepared to fight for it”. I quote “Imagine” as it questions the value of Countries (and Religion) when Nationalism replaces Patriotism, & when such hate-filled Nationalistic & Religious fervour drive conflict as we see today & throughout human history. However, it hopefully may provoke reflection on the pros & cons of various ideas & attitudes that underlie our history & current World events. Please read comments more carefully; they may be saying more than you can take in! I believe what is supported by the evidence as & when discovered by scientists; meanwhile I’m agnostic & content to not know when there’s not yet an available answer to many questions.

    • somehistory says

      Jan 6, 2015 at 8:38 pm

      “As an atheist…” ” meanwhile I’m agnostic ” (From you two comments)
      ***************************************************************
      You do realize, don’t you, that these are not the same thing?

      • somehistory says

        Jan 6, 2015 at 8:42 pm

        Sorry for the typo…leaving the *r* out of your.

      • Mirren10 says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 5:29 am

        Old Lance is so taken up with his own wonderfulness, somehistory, that I doubt he would notice your pointing out such a fundamental error !

        What a conceited bag of wind he is. If he truly is a psychiatrist, I’d hate to be one of his patients !

        • Old Lance says

          Jan 7, 2015 at 8:12 am

          To Mirren10,
          Sorry you take such offence at comments with which you don’t agree. Have you noticed that when you get angry, you seem not to read so thoroughly & tend to jump to conclusions. You say you’re an
          Agnostic, & you imply that’s more logical than Atheism, which you declare to be another form of dogmatism. Actually, there are two typed of Atheist, one somewhat dogmatic & one not at all. The first says “I believe there is no God” (dogmatic) & the second (my type) says “I do not believe there is I God”. I hope you see the distinction. I didn’t say Christianity is a milder form of Islam, nothing of the sort. If you doubt that, read again what I wrote (sorry, I know I can be a bit long-winded). Best to read it calmly & thoroughly first time around.
          I heartily agree the teachings of Jesus (I think he’s pretty cool, from what we know – I wasn’t there to hear him speak) are very different from the violent ravings of the founder of Islam. Opposite in a lot of ways, you’ll agree.
          What I said (which seemed to upset & confuse you) was that the type of thinking apparent in Fundamentalist Christianity is similar (though milder) to the thinking style apparent in Islam. While you & others are so intent on seeing only the contrasts, you are at risk of missing some similarities. Muons fall (even deeper) into the same trap. They tell those of other beliefs and of no belief, “we are right, you all are wrong”. Sounds familiar? Catholics vs Protestants (remember the “Troubles” of Ulster?), ultra-Orthodox Jews vs Liberal Jews, & so on. Black-and-white thinking (no shades of grey), never being wrong & never apologising, & other traits typical of narcissists, is ever more prevalent. (But not exclusively) in Islamic Cultures. So there is more on which we agree than disagree. Sorry I said I agree with Laura (“There is no God”) when in fact I say I don’t believe there is a God. If objective evidence arrived which proved there was, then Scientists would look at the question again, wouldn’t we?! Meanwhile, if all societies currently Muslim became Atheistic (fat chance!) then all this jihad threat would evaporate (as Atheists don’t proselytise). But we know that if won’t happen. Even Richard Dawkins, one of the most persuasive of Atheists, said to believers “If you find your beliefs help you, comfort you, that’s fine. Go fir it. I just don’t agree that it’s true”. As an Agnostic, what’s your view of that perspective? Peace!!

        • somehistory says

          Jan 7, 2015 at 11:19 am

          Mirren10,

          I agree. I just couldn’t keep from pointing to his obvious error.
          I do believe he is an atheist, but my belief in his claim of being a psychiatrist….now, that is the question. Since I don’t have any evidence, none tangible and not even any from *eyewitnesses*…then I remain in doubt about the claim being true.
          If he wants me to believe, he must put forth something as proof more than just writing it down on the internet. His long comments seem rather disjointed and don’t support the claim made.

        • Mirren10 says

          Jan 7, 2015 at 1:12 pm

          ”I didn’t say Christianity is a milder form of Islam, nothing of the sort.”

          Lance, baby, you’ve just mega cocked up.

          It was your alter ego, ‘Doubting Thomas’ who said that, and to whom I replied, making several points which you/he haven’t deigned to answer.

          Also, your comments, and old ‘Doubting Thomas’s’ comments about my ‘anger’ are so similar, you’re either copying from him, or you are him. I think you’re one and the same.

          Maybe you should read *your* comments more carefully, eh ? 🙂

    • Know Thy Enemy says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 5:58 am

      @Lance and @all other Atheists

      My question is/was sincere and there is no ill-intent, but after re-reading my post, I realized it does come off as if I am saying “your thinking is just like that of Laura’s” and “Most likely you will flee than fight for your country”. However, that was not my intention and I apologize for not reading carefully what I was posting.

      The question (highlighted in bold below) remains unanswered however! (The question is directed at all Atheists even though only a few people have joined this conversation including you and I.) I am pretty sure that there are plenty of other people who have wondered about the same. If you (or any other Atheist) provides an answer, a lot of people will have their curiosity satisfied!

      You said you agree with the saying “They only deserve freedom who are prepared to fight for it”. The thing about fighting however, is that it can cost one his/her life. In the worst case scenario, the fight itself may be lost too. A Buddhist will probably not be perturbed by this, since he most likely believes in reincarnation. (He will be born again so what if he dies). A Hindu too will not be perturbed because most likely he believes fighting for the country will result in good Karma which will be helpful in the next life. A Sikh or a Christian will fight because if nothing else he will get Attaboys from the Gurus or from Jesus, respectively 😛 ! A Muslim will fight because not only he will get Attaboys and plus sawab points, but also the houris and other goodies that are any hedonist’s best dreams!

      But what about an Atheist? On what basis would an Atheist fight and risk his life? You mentioned “empathy” and “Theory of Mind” in your original comment. So would you give up your one and only life (that you know of for now) and lose the chance to do all the things that you can potentially do, just because you have this emotion called empathy and just because you are aware that others too have thoughts and feelings?? Is it rational to risk life on that basis?

      Once again, this question is directed at ALL Atheists, so any of you is welcome to respond.

      • Mirren10 says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 7:07 am

        ”But what about an Atheist? On what basis would an Atheist fight and risk his life?

        …. Once again, this question is directed at ALL Atheists, so any of you is welcome to respond”

        I’m agnostic, which in my opinion is a more logical position than that of atheism, since no-one can definitively **prove** there is no God, but I’ll have a go, if I may.

        Firstly, I would strongly doubt, that every soldier who ever risked his life for his/her country, King/Queen, or any other principle, was either a Christian, or a member of any other faith which posits an afterlife. I’m sure many were, and are, atheists.

        Atheists are human, so **rationality** isn’t necessarily their driving force; we all take up positions, and hold to principles, which are, on the face of it, often irrational, in the strict sense of rationality, if one defines it as the act of doing something purely for a logical reason, or pure self-interest.

        An atheist may well decide to fight for the concept of freedom, for example; not because he/she believes in a God, and an afterlife, but because he/she feels that the concept of freedom is worth risking one’s life for.

        Why does anyone risk his or her life ? An atheist who risks his/her life in order to save a child from drowning, or goes into a burning building in order to save another human being, is being, according to your hypothesis, irrational, but nevertheless does so.

        I honestly think there are very few human beings who are driven solely by self-interest; the exceptions would be sociopaths and/ or psychopaths.

        Just my thoughts.

  29. Doubting Thomas says

    Jan 6, 2015 at 7:40 pm

    Looking at “Know thy enemy’s” previous comment re: the need for education, especially education in human psychology, and then his misunderstanding of Lance Risbey’s long-winded “lesson”, I had to laugh. It’s sad that, despite us commenters all sharing a realistic view of Islam (thanks to Robert), there is such a wide range of views & perspectives. Oh well, variety is the spice of life, as it’s said (not in either the Bible or in the Koran).
    I just wish there was more education manifesting in these comments, especially Degrees in Philosophy, in History & in Science.
    For what it’s worth, in respect of religiosity & its false logic vs clear & independent thinking, my favourite bible quote is from Paul’s epistle to the Hebrews, ch 11, verse 1: “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen”. If I can take the liberty to paraphrase this, it means that faith is wishful thinking and blind belief. !!
    This applies to all fundamentalist faiths, especially Islam. But how can their ridiculous & arrogant claims be opposed by a milder version of the same type of thinking? Grow up, people!
    A good movie (though with a dad ending) is “Agora”, starring Rachel Weisz as Hypatia, the fourth century philosopher in Alexandria (in pre-Islamic Egypt). Unless of course Islam was there, undercover, even two centuries before Muhammad announced his “prophet-hood”.
    Still doubting…..

    • Mirren10 says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 6:18 am

      Oh, for God’s sake; yet another bag of wind, puffed up in his own conceit, and convinced of his own wonderfulness. You and old Lance must be related.

      ”I just wish there was more education manifesting in these comments, especially Degrees in Philosophy, in History & in Science.”

      I just wish ignorant and conceited windbags like you would take a look in the mirror, once in a while.

      ”Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen”. If I can take the liberty to paraphrase this, it means that faith is wishful thinking and blind belief. !!”

      I’m going to take the liberty of telling you you’re full of it, and I speak as an agnostic. One may *hope* for many things; according to you, this is all wishful thinking, and as such, to be despised. What nonsense ! Many of Western civilisation’s greatest achievements have come about beginning with ‘wishful thinking’.

      As for ”the evidence of things unseen”, which you bathetically render as ‘blind belief’, this is nonsensical, also. I can’t see air, wind, carbon dioxide, gravity, or quantum strings, to name but a few of the things that are unseen, but I believe that they are there.

      ” This applies to all fundamentalist faiths, especially Islam. But how can their ridiculous & arrogant claims be opposed by a milder version of the same type of thinking? Grow up, people!”

      I take it your ill thought out strictures apply only to Christianity, not Buddhism, Hinduism, Shinto, Wicca, animism, or any other belief cherished by human beings.

      Kindly explain in what way then, Christianity is a ‘milder version’ of islam ? Where, in the Bible, are the open ended commands to murder atheists, agnostics, or those of a different faith ? Where in the Bible, is the command, ”whoever leaves his Christian religion, kill him” ? The **only** thing Christianity has in common with islam, is a belief in a creator. There are, however, **fundamental** differences in the character of said creator. I wonder if you’ve bothered to read the Koran ? The Bible ? Whether one has belief, or disbelief in either, ‘allah’ is fundamentally malignant; the Christian God, on the other hand, is fundamentally beneficent.

      Christians, or any other ‘fundamentalist faith’, are no threat to you; islam, however, whether ‘fundamentalist’, or ostensibly ‘moderate’, **is**. You’re the one who needs to ‘grow up’, my friend.

      Incidentally, and as a matter of curiosity, why is it atheists such as yourself, have such an animus against **Christianity** ? In your long and self-satisfied post, there is not one reference to the subject of the article; mohammedans believe **everyone is born a muslim**. Now, someone as intelligent, and well-educated as your glorious self, and holding no doubt degrees in Philosophy, History, and one or other (hey, maybe even **two** !) of the Sciences, will of course be aware that islam has a **death penalty** for apostasy.

      That means, my ego driven friend, that anyone who espouses another religion, is an apostate. That means anyone who espouses no religion, but maintains there is no God, is an apostate. So you, as an atheist, are as eligible for death under the sharia, as any Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, et al.

      Funnily enough, Christianity, although according to you, it is merely a ‘milder version’ of the most evil religion ever imagined by man, has no death penalty for apostasy, so you’re quite safe from *them*. Safe from all those deluded Buddhists etc, as well. In fact, the **only** people who may kill you for being an atheist, are, surprise, surprise, **mohammedans** !!

      ”It’s sad that, despite us commenters all sharing a realistic view of Islam (thanks to Robert), there is such a wide range of views & perspectives”.

      Really ? You know, the only group of people I know of, who actually **deprecate** a wide range of views and perspectives, are *totalitarians*, and, ** mohammedans** !

      • Doubting Thomas says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 8:38 am

        To Mirren 10, sorry my statement re: it’s sad that, when we all agree about Islam. there is such a variety of views& perspectives, may have been confusing. Of course, that’s a good thing (in all but totalitarian systems like Islam’s Sharia, & North Korea, etc). I was saying in a too “diplomatic” way that the comments varied from well-informed the way through to foul language, ignorance, ego-driven conceit (in your words – am I in that group, really?) such that I wish there were more comments from educated persons. I don’t have degrees in history or in philosophy, only in science (Medical) & I’d love to learn from experts in those areas. Robert is clearly a very knowledgable scholar & I’m learning from him, as I’m sure you are too. Is any of this making you angry? If so, why? I’ve had a lot of looking in the mirror (it’s called Psychotherapy) & if you have too, you’ll know it’s a worthwhile journey. If not, what are you scared of? Jump in, it’s fine!

        • Mirren10 says

          Jan 7, 2015 at 9:01 am

          ”Is any of this making you angry? If so, why?’

          What makes me angry is snobs like yourself, with your ill founded contempt for the thoughts and opinions of others, because they are not, according to you, ‘educated’.

          You really have no knowledge whatsoever as to whether those who comment are ‘educated’, or otherwise. You simply don’t like what they say, so seek to discredit them with an arrogant sneer.

          ”I’ve had a lot of looking in the mirror (it’s called Psychotherapy) & if you have too, you’ll know it’s a worthwhile journey. I’ve had a lot of looking in the mirror (it’s called Psychotherapy) & if you have too, you’ll know it’s a worthwhile journey. If not, what are you scared of? Jump in, it’s fine

          Thank you, I know what psychotherapy is. It’s a pity you don’t appear to have benefited from your sessions.

          ” If not, what are you scared of? Jump in, it’s fine !”

          I never intimated, in my post, anywhere, that I was ‘scared’ of psychotherapy, so why imply that I am ? Unless, of course, you are looking for a cheap and specious shot, to cover the fact you have made no reply to any of my points, apart from:

          ” sorry my statement re: it’s sad that, when we all agree about Islam. there is such a variety of views& perspectives, may have been confusing. Of course, that’s a good thing (in all but totalitarian systems like Islam’s Sharia, & North Korea, etc). I was saying in a too “diplomatic” way that the comments varied from well-informed the way through to foul language, ignorance, ego-driven conceit (in your words – am I in that group, really?) such that I wish there were more comments from educated persons.”

          Which is simply a re-statement of your contempt for, and arrogance toward, others.

          ”Jump in, it’s fine !”

          No thanks. I have, thank goodness, no need of psychotherapy.

          But I do understand that you have not answered any of my points, nor will you, I think.

    • Know Thy Enemy says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 6:30 am

      There is nothing in Lance Risbey’s comment that I did not understand! Lance started out by saying that he agrees with “there is no God”….. then he said Christians have dogmatic belief too! (Not to mention his claim that those who are devout religiously share in the narcissism of infantile mental processes.) ……and then he explained the psychology of young children.

      A question popped up in my head while reading his comment, and since Lance is both an Atheist and a psychiatrist, he is the best person to ask! There is nothing in Lance’s original comment that would have answered my question, so I asked him the question!

      Your comment too does NOT have an answer to the question!

  30. Sol Hachuel says

    Jan 6, 2015 at 10:42 pm

    A device to take anything of value without ever having to think, reason, or defer gratification. Pure theft, pure islam, all the time.

  31. Doubting Thomas says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 3:34 am

    I agree with Sol Hachuel’s description of the pure Muslim mentality, taking with a sense of total entitlement, any giving only apparent (eg, kindness to infidels to their face, condemnation behind their backs, etc). The emotional driver to these behaviours & attitudes is infantile (babies take all, for survival, & give nothing – except being helpless & cute) whereas Muslim jihadists use smarts, cunning & deception (which is of course beyond the capacity of infants – their cognitive brain is still too primitive) to soften the opposition (useful idiots, at least, useful to Islam). So Islam exemplifies Primary Pathological Narcissism; infantile emotional state driving cunning cognitive capacity. The result is manipulating others to accept that they are not the equal of the Narcissist, letting him be in charge (their M.O. is “I’ll show you who’s Boss!”) & using the laws of the land (eg against “racial” discrimination, against religious “intolerance”, in support of the “victims”) as if Islam never shows racial discrimination (anti-Jews), religious intolerance (anti-Judaism, anti-Christians, anti-Hindu/polytheism, anti-Atheism), or causing others to be victims (murder, torture, sex-slavery, domestic abuse & violence, assaults, fatwas, & so on & on…). So in order to win World War 3 (it’s already begun) the widespread evil of collective Narcissism endemic to Islamic cultures & state(s) will have to be healed by Western Intervention in conjunction with some Good People (fully human) who may have survived within Muslim-majority communities. The West (& the Far East) cannot afford to be hypocrites in this battle of ideas & of the human spirit. We ourselves must do our own healing & growing. It starts before age 2 when toddlers are in the thick of their Tantrum stage. Set consistent limits for kiddies, & when they can’t have their own way, let them yell. It will soon pass & with repeats of this Narcissistic Rage (appropriate in infancy, just not in adolescents & adults) they will effectively grieve the loss of their belief they were God, & will feel more secure knowing Mum & Dad are in charge (just as a well trained puppy is happier knowing its place in the pack). If toddlers are allowed to have their own way most of the time, they won’t grow up emotionally & are at risk of being Narcissists, fundamentalists, bullies, domestic violence perpetrators, & even Jihadists! So in a war which is not between two groups of nations, but between Civilisation and Barbarity, military action won’t get us very far. I can see the Army Psychology Corps growing quite a lot!

  32. Pseudo-CAIR says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 4:01 am

    If CAIR was really honest, they may say they don’t care if most Americans think they’re good guys in US terms. Of course they ARE good guys from an Islamic Jihad perspective (part of Robert’s aptly named “Stealth Jihad”). Why, they send charity money (lots of it, some from winning lawsuits against non-muslims) to Hamas’ orphans in Gaza, those who survive Human Shield operations instigated by Hamas militants when IDF attack in defence of their citizens. CAIR can even claim, on behalf of Hamas, how smart all this is as most of mainstream media see more profit ‘ sensation on highlighting civilian injuries in Gaza “caused” by those militant, invading Israelis (who we all know were there, as a nation, from at least 3000 years ago). But of course CAIR will admit none of this; after all they wouldn’t want to embarrass their non-Muslim American friends in Politics & MSM. Aren’t they thoughtful, kind & good?!

  33. Lance Risbey says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 8:58 am

    When I said I agree with Laura (“there is no God”) I was over-generalising. Sorry I sounded dogmatic. Laura May or may not be the more dogmatic type of Atheist (who says, in effect, “I believe there is no God”) however I regard my view as being that of the non-dogmatic type of Atheist (as may Laura for all I know). These atheists say, rather, “I do not believe there is a God”. It’s not a statement of belief, but of not believing. If scientifically objective evidence was discovered vehicle gave an evidence basis for belief (such as the law of gravity, of the power of electricity) then scientists would take another look at the hypothesis of the existence of God. The problem with this hypothesis is there is no possibility, in theory, of it’s being disproved or proved, an essential feature of a testable hypothesis. This is where science ‘ religion don’t mix. One involves believe without evidence (faith) & the other involves belief only with evidence. Goodbye, you young folk. It’s been nice chatting with you!

  34. Doubting Thomas says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 9:30 am

    Once again to Mirren10,
    As I re-read your comments I was

    struck by how angrily your writing comes across. It’s worrying. You may suppose that I’m making you angry. If you think that, I don’t have the power to make you angry. If you don’t think my comments make you angry. Then maybe something else is. Sorry to sound like I’m getting personal but many if your comments about me, & about “old Lance”, sounded pointedly personal. It’s ok, no offence taken. If I re-read my comments & saw them as being that angry, I’d be worried. By the way, if I was as conceited as you imply, I’d have left this forum much earlier. For what it’s worth. I’m actually interested in what others think, just surprised at some of it. Have I been hiding under a log? FYI I’ve listened to many people sharing their thoughts over several decades, & I thought I’d heard a fair spread of ideas. But rarely have I read such anger, such vitriol, as in this blog. Perhaps I just don’t get out & about enough! Anyway, let’s all keep working together with Robert to expose the barbaric doctrines ‘ practices of Islam & in the process we’ll be practising cooperation, not fighting each other.

    • Mirren10 says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 12:45 pm

      ”As I re-read your comments I was

      struck by how angrily your writing comes across. It’s worrying. ”

      Really ? Why ? Do you think I’m going to leap out of the screen, and throttle you ? 🙂

      It’s instructive that you should find honest emotions, such as anger, worrying, but you miss your mark; my comments are not ‘angry’, merely incisively directed at your narcissism, and general nonsense. And you don’t really find my comments ‘worrying’; you’re just annoyed that they’ve hit the mark, and dented your peerless ego.

      Do you find the anger, hatred, and blood lust of many mohammedans, ‘worrying’ ?

      ” By the way, if I was as conceited as you imply, I’d have left this forum much earlier”

      No, you wouldn’t. Twats like you love attention, even when it’s negative. I think you should discuss your ‘issues’ with your therapist.

      However, I won’t indulge you any longer.

      ”But rarely have I read such anger, such vitriol, as in this blog. ”

      You should try some mohammedan sites, and some leftard sites. *Their* ‘anger and vitriol’ puts us to shame.

      If what islam, and many mohammedans are doing, throughout the world, doesn’t make you angry and vitriolic, then you’re on the wrong blog, chumbawumba.

      No-one’s forcing you to stay. You might as well leave, anyway, since you clearly have nothing germane to contribute to the counter-jihad.

      ”But I do understand that you have not answered any of my points, nor will you, I think.”

      I rest my case.

      • Mirren10 says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 1:21 pm

        By the way, old son, you and old Lance need to get your act together, and attempt to make your posts markedly different from one another’s. You know, *merge* the personalities, so to speak.

        I expect your therapist can help you with that ! 🙂

  35. Doubting Thomas says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 6:37 pm

    To Mirren10,

    Wow! You’re even more angry! I started commenting on this site as I’ve been reading Robert Spencer for several years, books & more recently JihadWatch. Anger at Islamic Jihad is what unites us, in contrast with the PC brigade who try so hard to not be angry at Islam & its bloodthirsty, death wishing followers. We need to stay focused on what is the target of out rage. Instead of that, I’ve observed anger expressed at fellow bloggers over a variety of issues. Much of it seems driven by free-floating hostility & defensive rage. The Pen is mightier than the Sword. Of course I’m not scared you’ll jump out off my screen & throttle me – I know your anger in words will do no harm. I’m mindful that we all value freedom of speech. In a democracy, all viewpoints are welcome, in contrast with those vile totalitarian regimes against which we are all united. I know this is stating the obvious but some of your comments seem forgetful of the above. My lengthy comments on narcissism arose to make sense of styles of thinking (supremacist, dogmatic, black-or-white) most easily seen, in extreme form, in the teachings & utterances of Islamic jihad, and also apparent, to a milder extent, in humanity generally. Thus, while it remains important to expose contrasts between Totalitarian & Democratic systems, it’s also vital (germane, in your words) to admit our own flawed thinking. Not to be open to this, but instead to “shoot the messenger “, risks us becoming more, not less, like the enemy we so rightly fear & rage at; defensiveness to arises to protect the conscious part of our psyche from “the enemy within”, in the unconscious part of the psyche. Don’t sneer; that would seem defensive. Actually you can say what you like, of course, but some of what you say “about others” says more about you.
    This is actual expert opinion, not conceited twaddle, & offered freely. Accept or reject it as you wish, but hopefully with humility.

    • Mirren10 says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 6:57 pm

      To Mirren10,

      Wow! You’re even more angry!

      You know, your silly attempts at deflection won’t get any traction here. 🙂

      ”But I do understand that you have not answered any of my points, nor will you, I think.”

      I rest my case”

      Still waiting.

      • Doubting Thomas says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 7:16 pm

        To Mirren10
        Re: not answering your questions. Are you so arrogant as to consider others answerable to you? Is this your totalitarian state? However, if your really are so keen to know what I think (my answers), even if it’s just to provide you another opportunity to be insulting, I agree I’m fair game. So please ask your questions, in point form, & I’ll reply to each honestly & sincerely, without sarcasm, in the interests of supporting freedom of speech (a gift we all value, obviously) even when that gift becomes a vehicle for unintentional self-disclosure!

        • Angemon says

          Jan 7, 2015 at 8:00 pm

          Doubting Thomas posted:

          “Re: not answering your questions. Are you so arrogant as to consider others answerable to you? Is this your totalitarian state?”

          This is no one’s totalitarian state, it’s a platform where ideas can be freely discussed. If you won’t/can’t answer questions you’re free to do so, the same way you’re free to base your retorts in childish remarks such as “whoa, you must be really angry”. But asking for answers (or, more accurately, pointing out that the other party is refusing to answer valid questions) is neither arrogance or totalitarianism. It’s simply someone reacting to your bad form.

        • Mirren10 says

          Jan 7, 2015 at 9:50 pm

          ” So please ask your questions, in point form … ”

          Nope. They’re all here. Have at it, chumbawumba.

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/01/india-muslim-leader-says-every-child-is-born-a-muslim/comment-page-2#comment-1173486

      • Champ says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 8:08 pm

        Doubting Thomas reminds me of “Jen” …

        • Mirren10 says

          Jan 7, 2015 at 9:55 pm

          ”Doubting Thomas reminds me of “Jen”

          I think ‘Doubting Thomas’ is also ‘Lance’. 🙂

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/01/india-muslim-leader-says-every-child-is-born-a-muslim/comment-page-1#comment-1173723

        • Champ says

          Jan 8, 2015 at 1:13 am

          I think ‘Doubting Thomas’ is also ‘Lance’. 🙂

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/01/india-muslim-leader-says-every-child-is-born-a-muslim/comment-page-1#comment-1173723

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Jeez, why do these weirdo’s use more than one moniker? …it’s like dealing with someone suffering from a multiple personality disorder!

        • Jen says

          Jan 14, 2015 at 8:27 am

          Aahaha…”Champ” (I prefer not to refer to you as such because I don’t believe the screen-name is fitting) but my name is actually Jen and yet you refer to me with quotation marks around my name repeatedly! Who is the weirdo here? Maybe you need a fuller life outside of the internet love, so you don’t take your cozy world of online friendship so seriously. Maybe that’s why you and your internet pals spend time working out who is who; and who has what moniker, all the time? So sad…People can sense a flimsy character…Even on the internet…

    • somehistory says

      Jan 8, 2015 at 12:57 am

      Expert opinion? Expert in what, pray tell? It can’t be English. From your comment: ” defensiveness to arises to protect the conscious part of our psyche from “the enemy within”, in the unconscious part of the psyche.”
      ********************************** defensiveness to ….arises……….This makes no sense!
      And from you: “Wow! You’re even more angry!”
      *********************************************************************
      Correct English would be: angrier. Not “more angry.”
      *************************************************************************
      Anytime someone must insist on how intelligent he/she is, volumes not desired are spoken…or, in your case….written. And when that someone keeps telling others to *listen*….that speaks volumes too.

  36. Dr.shan says

    Jan 10, 2015 at 6:56 pm

    Utter nonsense – too much of idiotic idealogic around nowadays – we believe in god? Do we really ? Come on grow up stupid people

  37. shamsher says

    Feb 26, 2015 at 2:26 pm

    this website is running by some anti-muslim people. i think

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