Two thousand Muslims from Britain have joined the Islamic State to wage jihad, but Mohammed Rafiq Sehgal, president of the Bradford Council for Mosques, is outraged, outraged, that Communities Secretary Eric Pickles has dared to ask Muslim communities to do more to stop young Muslims from becoming “radicalized.” It’s to “pick on Muslims and blame them for the activities of terrorists
Given the abject state of Subjugated Britannia, he will probably get one. But in any case, notice the deflection: instead of complying with the request and working freely and willingly with law enforcement to root jihadis out of Muslim communities in Britain, Mohammed Rafiq Sehgal is acting as if the very request is offensive. And what will happen if he gets his apology? He will have set the precedent that the government cannot and must not ask Muslims in the country to do anything serious about jihad terrorism. And so the jihad will continue to advance. That seems to be the larger goal.
More on this story. “Bradford mosques leader demands apology over terror letter,” by Jo Winrow, Telegraph & Argus, January 19, 2015 (thanks to Block Ness):
MUSLIM leaders in Bradford have called on a key Government minister to apologise over a letter written to mosques in England urging them to do more to root out extremists and prevent young people being radicalised.
Mohammed Rafiq Sehgal, president of the Bradford Council for Mosques, has called the letter from Communities Secretary Eric Pickles “highly objectionable on several grounds” and said it “blames and targets the Muslim community”.
He said: “The statement incorrectly implies that Muslims are not part of the British society and are at unease with it, hence, they need to do more to be inclusive.
“We ask why the letter has only been sent to the Muslim leaders and not more widely to the leadership of other faiths and non-faith communities. This clearly suggests that in Mr Pickles’ views Muslims are solely to be blamed for terrorists’ activities. This is typical of the thinking among the Government ministers and the security agencies.
“Mr Eric Pickles and his partner in crime Lord Ahmad are guilty of overlooking the fact that for British Muslims Britain is their home and take the safety of their ‘home’ very seriously. Therefore, for senior politicians to continuously pick on Muslims and blame them for the activities of terrorists who do not care for the faith of their victims, is unjustified and grossly out of context.
“We ask Mr Pickles to publicly apologise to the Muslim community for bringing this peaceful section of the British society into disrepute. “Blaming Muslims may win Mr Pickles and his party some support from the right wing voters but it does not help good community relations.”Dr Mohammed Iqbal, president of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Association for Bradford North, also told the Telegraph & Argus: “I am a very firm believer that we should root out extremism wherever it is and I think we have a big part to play in that. But the timing of this letter is counter productive. It’s going to create tensions which don’t need to be created.
“Extremism is being driven by the internet and by developments totally outside this county. This letter puts immense pressure on the Muslim community.”
Today, the Prime Minister sprang to Mr Pickles’s defence.
Speaking at an event in Ipswich, David Cameron Mr Pickles had been “absolutely right” to write the letter and to make the point that everyone had a duty to fight extremism.
“Anyone, frankly, reading this letter, who has a problem with it, I think really has a problem. I think it is the most reasonable, sensible, moderate letter that Eric could possibly have written.
“Frankly, all of us have a responsibility to try to confront this radicalisation and make sure that we stop young people being drawn into this poisonous fanatical death cult that a very small minority of people have created.”
Shipley MP Philip Davies also supported Mr Pickles.
“Clearly there is a problem with Islamic extremism, and the whole of the Muslim community need to play a full part in prevent this radicalisation from taking place and ensuring everyone integrates fully into a British way of life and British values,” he said.
“The Government cannot do that alone and it is right for Eric Pickles to reach out to the Muslim community in this way to make sure that everyone works together to root out the cancer of terrorism, intolerance and Islamic extremism in this country which is clearly a threat to our country.”…
Bradford West Respect MP George Galloway said: “While it might be well-intentioned it is actually crass and offensive and helps to further stigmatise and vilify Muslims.
“Would Eric Pickles send such a letter to all churches warning them to guard against EDL extremists and racists, or to synagogues over the bombings and killings of innocent civilians in Gaza? Of course he wouldn’t.
“Muslims don’t need to patronised and told that killing innocent people is wrong, they know it, as do those of all faiths and none.
“He should be looking at the policies of his Government and preceding ones which have caused murder, mayhem and created distress and hatred among 1.6 billion Muslims, in this country and worldwide, and address these rather than lecturing them about what is right and wrong.”
Yes, you see, it is all the West’s fault. Kneejerk Leftist reaction.
Nicu says
and they demand , again – who the hell they think they are ?
They have nothing to demand in Western countries !
occupant 9 says
Odd isn’t it that 1.6 billion Muslims are offended … but isn’t that painting all Muslims with the same brush?
I’m confused. When do we get to class all groups together as one, like say, an Ummah? Or would that be committing the sin of painting all 1.6 billion Muslims with the same brush?
katnis says
That is a great question. Lump us together when we demand something. But don’t you DARE lump us together when it comes to taking RESPONSIBILITY for the horrors committed in the name of islam!
Bettina says
Katnis, I enjoyed your articulate summary of a post I couldn’t get clear in my mind.
Angry says
It proves that imams have NO intention in helping the authorities root out the extremists. So it’s time to close down ALL mosques, reduce them to rubble, re-bless the land to remove the evil hatred and build something useful (hospital, school, homes) in there place.
If the muslims don’t like the idea of that, then they know what they can do.. f**k off out of Britain. Simple.
noellsq says
Their cannot be any talk with the Muslims the immigration to western countries must stop and deportation should commence. If they want to stay in the country they must:
1. Swear their loyalty to their new country
2. Learn the language of their new country
3. Have a means to support themselves and their dependents
4. Respect the customs of others
5. Obey the laws of the country
Bettina says
More than immigration, it’s a MIGRATION of locusts and cockroaches across the map…
noellsq says
why are we electing people who believe that talk will work. BULLSHIT CASTRATION IS THE ONLY THING . They will have no balls for those virgins
Salah says
“They will have no balls for those virgins”
Uhh…apparently Muhammad too have lost his…balls for his virgins!!!
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2011/07/private-parts-of-muhammad.html
katnis says
Now that’s the best solution I’ve heard in a long time. It would be cheaper, easier, and it would stop the population creep.
Bettina says
Well that sounds good — at least in our dreams…
Michael Copeland says
Watch the night invasion swarm.
Melilla, l’assalto di centinaia di migrant… – YouTube
Inline image 1► 2:57► 2:57
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQllUYYY8qc
cs says
I thought Islam was success, why they want to leave all behind like that? I can’t really understand. They have their Quran and Sharia there. WHy???
Bettina says
What’s with the Italian, Mike? Forget we speak English here on JW?
I went to the trouble of finding an online translator for the lead paragraph. Here it is.
In this video released by the Interior Ministry in Madrid, the onslaught of hundreds of migrants to the wall that separates the Spanish enclave of Melilla from Morocco.
[About] 800 tried to cross the border last May 1. Those not able to escape the control of the Civil Guard hung on the fences for 6 hours before being rejected.
After violent clashes with the police, 18 were injured and hundreds arrested.
Overall, there have been 1,700 people who tried to climb…..”
Jerry says
And renounce their genocidal agenda against non-Muslims
(sorry, but no Muslim will do that because it is mandated by the Quaran and the Hadith).
deja vu says
noellsq, the horse bolted long ago.
Muslims need not genuinely swear loyalty to their adopted country. They are permitted to lie through their teeth to ‘kufr’ in order to gain citizenship. It is an honourable thing to do. They’ll go through the motions, but need have no intention of honouring their pledge. Their pledges of ‘loyalty’ aren’t worth the oxygen expended to utter them. Their loyalty to Islam always comes first.
Likewise all the other requirements of democratic governments can be safely ignored. Dissimulation and obfuscation is their modus operandi when dealing with non-Muslims. They have been petted and pandered to by weak Western Governments, their every demand satisfied, their ‘rights’ defended. Not a peep about their responsibilities – that would be ‘racist’.
This creeping infiltration, encouraged by generous welfare, has been aided and abetted by willful blindness on the part of legislators – coupled with the concept of political correctness which has shut down any meaningful debate and has curbed free speech. Effectively, the West has handed their fifth column all the ammunition they need to advance and proliferate. Citizenship has been handed out like sweets, while laws of sedition have been watered down or taken off the Statute books altogether.
That said, it hasn’t helped that the West has lost its way because of the virtual ‘criminalising’ of Christianity in recent times. You can wear a hijab but not a cross, you can wear a turban and carry a ceremonial dagger but not a cross. You can’t pray for a patient, even though they would like you to, because a Muslim worker might be ‘offended’ and report you. In the interests of ‘diversity’ you can’t teach children about Jesus without also teaching them about Mohammed, Krishna, Buddha etc. Furthermore, nobody uses the name of Mohammed, Krishna or Buddha as a swear word. Jesus Christ has been the target of the Left for a long time, both in academia, the media and elsewhere, in the mistaken belief in the viability of an atheistic/secularist Utopia. You have to wonder why only Jesus gets under the secularists’ skin.
We have confused tolerance for capitulation under the threat of seeming ‘intolerant’ because we no longer know what we believe. Nature abhors a vacuum, and Islam has taken advantage of a weakened society that has largely abandoned itself to the lowest common denominator. The British bulldog has been debarked and declawed and has no stomach for defending his nation. A very sad sight indeed.
Bettina says
Dear Déja — You rightly said that “Muslims need not genuinely swear loyalty to their adopted country.”
To which allow me to add that Jews were commanded in the Bible to INTEGRATE into other cultures when living in other lands, and make every effort to COMBINE the values of the dominant culture with their Judaic values.
This ethic has been practiced for millennia, the only question being the matter of the unfathomable anti-Semitism that forcibly segregated them from the mainstream, and viciously persecuted.
cs says
IF there is still someone with balls here, he would say:
“NOW GUESS WHAT, YOU CAN WAIT FOR THAT APOLOGY FOREVER.”
pdxnag says
CNNMoney.com:
Paris mayor: We intend to sue Fox News — Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo told CNN Tuesday she intends to sue Fox News in the wake of the channel’s coverage of supposed “no-go zones” for non-Muslims. — Hidalgo said the channel had “insulted” her city. — “When we’re insulted …
http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/20/media/paris-mayor-sue-fox-news/
pdxnag says
Oops, that was meant to be email comment to Robert. Guess I am getting too old old something.
Bettina says
I had the same idea about emailing Robert, as I didn’t want to steal his thunder in delivering his 1-2 punch — headlining Fox’s apology followed by this laughable threat against Fox by the mayor of Paris.
But cat’s out of the bag now… We’ll do better next time 🙂
Mark says
W3D?
What would Winston do?
Bettina says
Off-topic, but not really:
Yesterday CNN covered itself with SHAME when Chris Cuomo and a female reporter hosted two muslims to supposedly discuss why islam is a common thread among terrorists.
You should’ve been there — what an a obscene aberration of journalism that was! With no one else presenting any opposite viewpoints, these lying, arrogant muslims spread their filthy propaganda and knee-jerk defense of the Koran like you wouldn’t believe. Islam was misunderstood by terrorists, who are not real muslims, Allah was described 141 times in the Koran as merciful, Mohamed was a holy man who exemplified peace and all good things, and if these terrorists followed him, there would be no war… And — oh yeah, negative koranic quotes were just “taken out of context” by critics.
It was NAUSEATING! Then the reporters thanked them (for their string of lies) and ended the program, once more, with the killing of truth and journalistic values.
ruth says
In a pig’s icehole they should apologize..And speaking of pigs, muslims do not want people to kill and eat pigs cause they are the pigs…Remember the demons who entered the pigs and then committed suicide.. Well hello musims…Mark 5-13…And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea……Mark 5-9…And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.LEGION means army…The army of satan is in Revelation 9…IT is muslims… Matthew 7-6…Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before SWINE, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you…The pearl of great price is Jesus, Son of God and the Gospel…..The swine deny both these pearls.. hello Islam..
Wellington says
Ah, victims again.
Don McKellar says
Isn’t this Cameron’s grand plan to solve the butchering, raping, bombing, threatening, blood-thirsty jihad problem that gradually engulfing Britian? So what will be Cameron’s response no that his big plan was rejected? Oh, I know what he’s going to do…
CAMERON WILL APOLOGIZE.
Alissa says
It’s either now or never. The government clearly isn’t going to do anything decisive not in the UK, Europe, North America or Australia. That leaves it up to the common people. What should we do….wait for another generation of Neanderthals to build forces and completely massacre us.
kikorikid says
The “Working Class” seems to be getting hammered the most under Liberal
Leadership in the UK. Maybe a revolt in defense. It seems you are overlooking that
you are being “Colonized”.
Bettina says
You’re limiting yourself to predominantly white democracies, and I think I know why.
These satanic migrating muslims don’t seek shelter in SE Asia or anywhere in Africa because they’re too good for those countries, most without free speech.
But a Caucasian-majority country, what a delight to use its own free speech to muzzle those racist whites with threats of islamophobia, blasphemy, and death!
Thus, all that is good is now waiting to be extinguished by evil.
Thanks for the payback, assholes.
CogitoErgoSum says
The imams understand Islam. Pickles and Cameron do not fully understand but perhaps they will eventually. Actions do speak louder than words and this is an unspoken sermon being preached by the imams to us infidels. Don’t doze off. Pay attention … and prepare yourself for more attacks demanding submission to the religion of ,,,,,,,,, submission.
gerard says
They attack us.
We complain.
They demand an apology.
Islam 101.
Bettina says
Yeah, I’m sorry you killed my father, my mother, my siblings, and that you are raping me right now…
noellsq says
Again their is no western logic they stand for everything opposite of our beliefs. Not a Muslim or a Muslim of a different sect must be converted,enslaved or charge a tax to live. Women wow they are raped stoned and sold. No freedom of speech. Migration to Europe as they cannot stand it in their own country and the stupid EUROPEANS except them. Give them public aid ,education and health benefits but their religion states that they must follow their Quran and not any sectarian government. Rapes and criminal actions increase with their presence. The most important thing is they will not assimilate and complain all the time that they are offended if they see a sign with a pig on it and insist to have special meals in schools . They want to change history and refuse to use western history books because they tell false things like the holocaust. Treat people with great esteem when they murder innocent people.
Kenny says
After killing their victims in jihad, the terrorist always chant their allah Akbar which clearly suggests they are muslims and are working for their allah. So, they need not fool us again about islam being peaceful, it’s a religion of deceit and satanic manifestations from the pit of hell. Surely the end of islam is near, so says the Lord of Host! Jer 10v11.
Bettina says
Kenny, I refer you here to my post about that NAUSEATING CNN INTERVIEW that resulted in offering an international platform for muslim apologists to regurgitate all the old justifications about islam and its pervert in chief. My mind vomited with disgust!
Bettina says
Without any opposing viewpoints whatsoever!!!!!
Kuffar says
noellsq says
January 20, 2015 at 1:58 pm
Their cannot be any talk with the Muslims the immigration to western countries must stop and deportation should commence. If they want to stay in the country they must:
1. Swear their loyalty to their new country
2. Learn the language of their new country
3. Have a means to support themselves and their dependents
4. Respect the customs of others
5. Obey the laws of the country
Reply ADD 6. Convert to Christianity…
Angemon says
It seems to me that muslim leaders in the UK have gotten away with so much for so long that they’ve lost all sense of caution, all sense of limits.
How long until John Bull gets tired of crap like this?
Alissa says
And they’re only 10% of the population. What happens in 10 years, 20 years. It will be too late.
They are completely incorrigible. It will only get worse…far far worse.
Keith says
How can we expect muslim community leaders to do anything about radicalisation of young muslims, they have been telling us for so long that Islam is THE Religion of Peace that they now either
1) Believe their own hype
2) Risk losing face if they now admit that they need to do something about radicalisation.
Consequently their only course of action is to demand an apology.
Stephen says
You will have noticed that a huge gulf exists between politicians and the general public. Our aspirations will never be met until we live in a true democracy.
I do not wish to vote for political parties, as I consider that system to be divisive. It would be much better if we had a direct democracy, similar to the Swiss model, where we could vote on issues which affect all our lives.
It is politicians (from all parties) who have got us into this mess, and we just can’t trust them to get us out of it. We have a General Election coming soon in the UK, which will give us the perfect opportunity to shake Westminster to its core.
I propose that no one should vote for any of the three major political groups, though I would not go so far as to advise anyone where they should place their vote.
It is high time that we had a very robust conversation with the Muslim community. We need to establish, once and for all, that we will not tolerate traditions which call for “honour killings” and the forced marriage of children to foreign nationals. Nor will we accept Sharia Law or extra-judicial Muslim street patrols.
Our laws are not optional, depending on religious beliefs, and Muslim communities MUST be made to understand that our secular laws take precedence over their backward customs.
Kind Regards,
Stephen.
zebo says
Those leaders are 100% right.
How the hell can you expect them to root out the historically most important part of spreading islam
the extremist jihad warriors.
And how the hell can you expect them to stop radicalisation as radicalism is the only chance to recruit new jihad warriors.
By eliminating extremism and radicalisation islam the most important factors of this army-religion would vanish within 2 generations as islam has nothing to offer and people would simply leave islam
but as long as there are warriors who will kill every apostate people won’t leave and powerhungry imams will still have their power.
John Hartley says
It is obligatory for muslim leaders to become skilled in victimhood and taqiyya.
George Galloway is famed for turning the meaning of the word ‘respect’ on its head, e.g. his ‘respect’ party. His comments about muslims and Israel show that he is doing the same to the word ‘truth’.
R Cole says
Are these Islamic community leaders saying they will not help root out extremists??
Galloway is talking about Islamophobia – because he converted to Islam!! In his case ~ it is a move from helping the victims to becoming the victims.
They know Islam is violent – that they can claim indignation – is because the violence of Islam – to the believer is meant to be held in a religious molecule. That is why among themselves – they don’t argue as many on the Left do – that Islam is peaceful and all these negative things said about Islam are wrong – Muslim rather argue – when this violence should be used – and under whose authority. Two very different statements. And the Caliphate was meant to solve that problem. He is meant to be the authority who can order Muslim when and when not to attack.
They are on the defensive – they know all you have to do is cry ‘racism’ “islamophobia [whatever it means]” – and the Leftist media – would come running – nevermind the issue at hand – working to stop terrorism – that like in Pakistan, Nigeria or Syria and Iraq could leave a lot of people dead.
The London bombers came from Bradford.
ruth says
It is past time to think you can make peace with the devil or his children..1 John says antichrist denies Jesus is Son and God is father… and these are the children of the devil..Hello Islam…
Bettina says
I am a Jew, but not an anti-Christ — can you accept that?
boakai ngombu says
“We ask why the letter has only been sent to the Muslim leaders and not more widely to the leadership of other faiths and non-faith communities. This clearly suggests that in Mr Pickles’ views Muslims are solely to be blamed for terrorists’ activities…”
corporate guilt … seems the silent support the actions of a few slaves to the malevolent, belligerent, Allah god of Islam (unknowable; the best of all deceivers).
Jaladhi says
This has been Muslim modus operandi from day one – ply victim and demand apologies. Muslims were terrorists when they were in Mecca and they are terrorists now. They kill with impunity and then dare to ask for apologies from us if we dare to point this out to them. Why do any of the Western government even consider any of these blatantly hypocritical demands??? It is sickening these idiots have been allowed to come to the West where they are nothing but grief.
Bettina says
Western governments consider these demands because no one here has a PhD in
DUPLICITY, as the muslims do, that’s why.
ECAW says
This is all fascinating isn’t it, and possibly an important turning point.
Possibility 1. Pickles and Cameron drafted that letter in good faith (God knows it’s grovelling enough) and hoped for a positive response. Having got a kick in the teeth they will either wake up to the reality of Islam and move to an increasingly confrontational stance (yippee!) or will apologise and show that there are no limits to their cravenness (oh shite!).
Possibility 2. This was a Macchiavellian gambit on their part. They expected a rebuff and can use it as a justification for appearing to get tough with Muslims, not because Cameron has any intention of carrying through with it but because he needs to avoid being outflanked by Nigel Farage of UKIP (who recently uttered the words “fifth column).
Renee says
Muslims going to jihad has nothing to do with muslims? OK I get it!: Could just as well be Christians, Agnostics, Atheists right? Awful detectives these muslims, most likely they will recommend looking for a Zionist connection.
Bettina says
Renée, the lying sons of bitches already claimed that Zionists and Israelis were responsible for the Paris attacks. I think the Jooz head the list of their usual suspects, don’t you?
somehistory says
They know their house is dirty and are offended that others have noticed. Like the rebellious teen who refuses to clean his/her room and the mom goes in with determination to clean it. But unlike the teen who usually grows out of the rebellion, these worshippers of the devil not only don’t quit worshipping, but pull others in to the evil cult of the beast.
Evil loves the darkness and is offended by the light (John 3:18-20).
deja vu says
noellsq, the horse bolted long ago.
Muslims need not genuinely swear loyalty to their adopted country. They are permitted to lie through their teeth to ‘kufr’ in order to gain citizenship. It is an honourable thing to do. They’ll go through the motions, but need have no intention of honouring their pledge. Their pledges of ‘loyalty’ aren’t worth the oxygen expended to utter them. Their loyalty to Islam always comes first.
Likewise all the other requirements of democratic governments can be safely ignored. Dissimulation and obfuscation is their modus operandi when dealing with non-Muslims. They have been petted and pandered to by weak Western Governments, their every demand satisfied, their ‘rights’ defended. Not a peep about their responsibilities – that would be ‘racist’.
This creeping infiltration, encouraged by generous welfare, has been aided and abetted by willful blindness on the part of legislators – coupled with the concept of political correctness which has shut down any meaningful debate and has curbed free speech. Effectively, the West has handed their fifth column all the ammunition they need to advance and proliferate. Citizenship has been handed out like sweets, while laws of sedition have been watered down or taken off the Statute books altogether.
That said, it hasn’t helped that the West has lost its way because of the virtual ‘criminalising’ of Christianity in recent times. You can wear a hijab but not a cross, you can wear a turban and carry a ceremonial dagger but not a cross. You can’t pray for a patient, even though they would like you to, because a Muslim worker might be ‘offended’ and report you. In the interests of ‘diversity’ you can’t teach children about Jesus without also teaching them about Mohammed, Krishna, Buddha etc. Furthermore, nobody uses the name of Mohammed, Krishna or Buddha as a swear word. Jesus Christ has been the target of the Left for a long time, both in academia, the media and elsewhere, in the mistaken belief in the viability of an atheistic/secularist Utopia. You have to wonder why only Jesus gets under the secularists’ skin.
We have confused tolerance for capitulation under the threat of seeming ‘intolerant’ because we no longer know what we believe. Nature abhors a vacuum, and Islam has taken advantage of a weakened society that has largely abandoned itself to the lowest common denominator. The British bulldog has been debarked and declawed and has no stomach for defending his nation. A very sad sight indeed.
noellsq says
I have to firmly agree with you,but then assimilation will never occur. Therefore like a cancer it must be cut out. They must do to the Muslims as they did with the Jews in Spain. The Quran which I have on desk and is in English and approved by Al-Azhar University states everything , a Muslim could never obey the laws of the country if it is not a Muslim country.
deja vu says
Assimilation between polar opposites is impossible, especially if the immigrant community displays this degree of arrogance and intransigence. ‘Being nice’ to these people does not work. Only being more resolute than they are. They have everything to lose, we have everything to gain – why are we so reluctant to take action?
I agree that new legislation should be enacted which will give the authorities the power to cancel the citizenship of those not born in the UK. I don’t live in the UK so don’t know whether treason is still a criminal offence. If not, it should be re-introduced, the penalty being the stripping of citizenship and automatic deportation if found guilty. Playing the system for years with appeal after appeal, while living bountifully off the taxpayer, must end.
What to do with those born in the UK is trickier. Reviewing the welfare system is urgent, and not just for Muslim leeches. There must be a cap put on it. Revisiting the whole question of ‘human rights’ might yield some – er – irregularities. I read of a Muslim thug who won the right to remain in England because of the damage to his family life were he to be deported. His ‘family’ turned out to be a cat. Even so, he was still allowed to stay. Reform of the judiciary appears to be long overdue.
Over the years. Western member states of the UN have ceded much of their sovereignty and autonomy to assorted religious thugocracies and 3rd world dictators which outnumber them. At the very next terrorist attack on British soil the Government should declare a State of Emergency, put the nation on a war footing, and enact special powers to deal with the crisis. A war of attrition is no less a war.
Demsci says
Thanks for your post, deja vu. Yes, the situation IS dire, threathening, almost hopeless.
And in no way do I want to diminish your approach. But can I suggest augmenting it with another approach. Which because of encouraging people to do your approach as well, is not IMO naive or reckless.
When we look at the world we kind of see a huge, formless “normal” which is supposed to be OK and then we see negative deviations from that, with alll sorts of dangers and criminal, immoral, stupid and dangerous behavior of people, or all kinds of illnesses. And then we want to criticize that and remedy that. And that is as it should be.
But one principle of positive psychology is that it looks to “normal” as formless, but rather bad or low to start with. And then it starts looking for positive deviations. And it will try to promote and increase those deviations.
Now I see Islam largely as negative deviation, as you do. And these goodhearted but spineless politicians who exonerate Islam time and again I also see as negative deviations.
But the Muslims themselves supposedly see Islam as a positive deviation. Even Robert Spencer says that Muslims know what they are FOR, what they are committed to.
And we in the West? At best we see only negative deviations and are only in defense-mode, depressively so.
But what are we FOR? Who and what are the positive deviations in our society?!
And concerning Muslims and their helpers; they contend that ISIS and terrorists at best are negative deviations of Islam, done by so-called “misunderstanders of Islam”.
But can there be positive deviations among the Muslims? I think there are a few, and mayor Aboutaleb and president Al Sisi may be among them. They, as Muslims, have said that people not willing to obey Western laws should leave Western countries and that it is Islam itself that has a problem.
I hope that together with a defensive approach we in the West rediscover what the West stands for, and that we encourage positive deviations among politicians and citizens among us. And that we encourage the few positive deviations among the Muslims. Again, as augmentation, not replacement of your approach.
Richie says
Remember, Muslims always cry victim- Even when Muslim men rape women, the rapist is always seen as the victim
Peggy says
We demand an apology for all the terror and murder they inflicted on us.
It is US who deserve an pology, not them.
Bamaguje says
“We ask why the letter has only been sent to the Muslim leaders and not more widely to the leadership of other faiths” – Mohammed Rafiq Sehgal, president of the Bradford Council for Mosques.
What other faiths are involved in terrorism?
“This clearly suggests that in Mr Pickles’ views Muslims are solely to be blamed for terrorists’ activities” – Mohammed Rafiq.
Duh… Again I ask, what other group carries out terror attacks?
“Mr Eric Pickles and his partner in crime Lord Ahmad are guilty of overlooking the fact that for British Muslims Britain is their home and take the safety of their ‘home’ very seriously” – Mohammed Rafiq.
Really? Yet hundreds of British Muslims have joined ISIS.
What the chic!! Such sanctimonious righteous preening by traitorous Muslims who should be hiding their heads in shame.
Pekka Tulikivi says
STOP KHITAN AL-INATH (sunat perempuan; “mild sunnah”),
STOP ISLAMIC FGM!
Germany (Ringel / Meyer; Tatjana Hörnle), bad enough, and unfortunately now even Great Britain are paving the way towards the so called “mild Sunnah” type, towards a legal FGM. We should stop this, any form of FGM or MGM should be banned everywhere.
::
Female genital mutilation comprises all procedures involving partial or total removal of the external female genitalia or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons (WHO, UNICEF, UNFPA, 1997). The WHO/UNICEF/UNFPA Joint Statement classified female genital mutilation into four types (FGM Type I, II, III, IV).
Now UK judge James Munby compares male circumcision with FGM – without demanding a ban on ritual circumcision of minors. Are fears of legalisation of female genital mutilation (FGM Type IV and maybe also Type Ia) in the UK unfounded?
::
In the matter of B and G (Children) (No 2)
Sir James Munby, President of the Family Division
http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/BandG_2_.pdf
::
Judge Sir James Munby can know that the circumcision of girls is religion, part of several hadith and many fatwa. The Fiqh (Islamic Jurisprudence) of Shafii madhhab and many Ulama of Hanbali madhhab regard FGM as wajib, i. e. as a religious duty. So khitan al-inath (sunat perempuan; FGM) is part of authentic Islam.
Hadith. Muhammad said to the muqaṭṭiʿa al-buẓūr (cutter of clitorises) Umm ʿAṭiyya:
أشمِّي ولا تنهكي
ašimmī wa-lā tanhakī
[Cut] slightly and do not overdo it
اختفضن ولا تنهكن
iḫtafiḍna wa-lā tanhikna
Cut [slightly] without exaggeration
Today several Muslim clerics promote a “mild sunnah” circumcision; who tells Judge Munby about this fatwa: What is the Ruling on Circumcision for Women?
Circumcision is obligatory upon men and women according to us (i.e. the Shafi’is). (Majmu’ of Imam An-Nawawi 1:164) The circumcision is wajib upon men and women according to the rājih qawl of Shāfi’ī madhhab. Answered by: Sidi Abdullah Muḥammad al-Marbūqī al-Shāfi’ī. Checked by: Al-Ustāż Fauzi ibn Abd Rahman
My real concern is that Europe will soon legalise some “mild” forms of the Classification of FGM.
And again: any form of FGM or MGM should be banned everywhere.
s o u r c e s
A Cutting Tradition. By SARA CORBETT. The New York Times. Published: January 20, 2008
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/magazine/20circumcision-t.html
Inside a Female-Circumcision Ceremony. Photo: Stephanie Sinclair
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/01/20/magazine/20080120_CIRCUMCISION_SLIDESHOW_index.html
::
Joe Shmo says
Laughable. Nothing to see here!
Neil Jennison says
On the BBC’s Question Time programme last Thursday, Mehdi Hasan claimed that while mainstream Muslims had no agreement with the massacre of the Charlie Hebdo journalists, they rightly objected to the cartoons being published.
He backed up his claim, on national TV, by quoting the Qur’an.
“”5:32 “Whoever kills an innocent, it is as if he has killed all humankind””
He failed to mention, of course, what group of people are considered “innocent” in Islamic jurisprudence.
Weasel words……..Taqiyya……No infidel, no kaffir, is considered “innocent” under Sharia (Islamic) Law,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Certainly not those guilty of blasphemy against the “Prophet”.
Angemon says
5:32 is muhammad reminding the Jews of what their scriptures say:
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one – it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
5:33 is about how muslims should dispense justice:
Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment
Funny how what’s probably the most quoted passage of the quran when it comes to prove that islam is peaceful has to be quoted partially: it allows killing as retribution for murder and for “spreading corruption” and it doesn’t refer to the teachings of islam but to those of Judaism.
kikorikid says
Obama said,” No religion teaches the murder of Innocents.”
Under Sharia the only Innocents are “Believers”.
mortimer says
kikorikid is on target.
All kafirs who pay taxes to an infidel state are ‘guilty’ of attacking Islam and preventing the conquest of jihad. They must be fought. All the taxpayers are thus ‘guilty’ and Islam says it is lawful to attack them, ‘beleaguer them’ through economic sabotage, and otherwise do everything to upset their applecart and destroy their governments.
ECAW says
Jesus Christ – Not that old chestnut again! Mehdi sure has chutzpah but he can get away with it because of the almost complete ignorance of Islamic scriptures in which the public debate is carried on. I’ve never seen one of these pieces of sleight of hand challenged on TV or in the press.
I was thinking the other day of the list of reasons why I think Islam is a deadly threat to the West:
The instructions of Allah
The actions of Mohammed
The actions of his successors
The great mediaeval scholars
The various schools of jurisprudence
Nearly 1400 years of war against everyone else, interrupted only by 150 years of Western colonialism
Global jihad being carried out today
but the thing which absolutely confirms it for me is the deceitfulness of Islamic apologists which proves they have something to hide.
Just as an example:
https://ecawblog.wordpress.com/2014/08/01/sleight-of-hand/
mortimer says
Anjem Choudary, for instance! What are the mullahs willing to do to stop HIM? Nothing, right?
The mullahs are afraid to speak up because they would all GET THEIR HEADS BLOWN OFF BY THE JIHADISTS whom they created.
sheik yer'mami says
Muslims have been our implacable enemies since the days of Muhammad. WTF is so difficult to understand about that?
mortimer says
Our politicians do not realize every mullah is working for the supranational UMMAH, rather than the country in which he lives. Whenever opportunity arises, mullahs all have a duty to resist the infidel government and sabotage its plans to fight back against the jihad.
The mullahs are all traitors…some little traitors…passive aggressive in this case.
roger says
How dare Eric Pickles firstly accuse Muslims of terrorism and then blatantly patronise Muslims by telling them to tone down the screaming, demanding, Halal taxing, honour killing, and murder.
The west has been told over and over it has nothing to do with the Koran, which tells them to do it.
Anon says
Two words seem to jump out: Muslim…demand.
“We ask why the letter has only been sent to the Muslim leaders and not more widely to the leadership of other faiths…”
Wait, do “other faiths” kill people for leaving the “faith”?
Penalty for Converting to Another Faith – The percentage that believe this is about 68% based on ten Muslim majority countries in the Middle East, South Asia and North Africa. Based on the Muslim population of those countries, that results in 353 million people (at a minimum) believing in the death penalty for leaving Islam.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/
“Extremism is being driven by the internet…” yah the “internet” wrote the unholy ‘quran.
“Would Eric Pickles send such a letter to all churches warning them to guard against EDL…” yah that EDL is so globally out of control:
“Islamic Terrorists have carried out more than 24899 deadly terror attacks since 9/11”
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
Lia Wissing says
Does any world leader, apart from muslim leaders, of course, ever read the qur’an?
Judi says
Wait for some indignant comments from George Galloway, MP for Bradford East.
cathy says
Curious about liter of soda (P) prominently displayed on white table……something strange about that, anybody else notice.
zulu says
‘The kuffar went to our lands and killed our people and raped and pillaged’: Video rant of trainee lawyer at top firm blaming non-Muslims for Paris terror attacks
Aysh Chaudhry, 22, criticised ‘apologetic’ Muslims in online diatribe
Trainee lawyer claimed the West was to blame for the Paris terror attacks
He repeatedly referred to non-Muslims using the derogatory term kuffar
Clifford Chance trainee apologised saying he wanted to encourage debate
Law firm has refused to confirm whether he will be fired over the video
Critics say he has used ‘language of terror’ and firm’s response is ‘weak’
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2917100/The-kuffar-went-lands-killed-people-raped-pillaged-Video-rant-trainee-lawyer-firm-blaming-non-Muslims-Paris-terror-attacks.html#ixzz3PN7Oh5mb
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Charli Main says
” It’s to “pick on Muslims and blame them for the activities of terrorists”
Damm right to !!!!!
Those letters should have been sent to Britain´s Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist and Jewish communities demanding that they get their suicide bombers, rape gangs under control.
Can´t have these folk rampaging down British streets chopping up old ladies and soldiers, urinating on war memorials and burning poppies.
Bloody cheek—picking on all those peace loving Imams and Muslims living in Britain.
A clear case of bigoted, racist Islamophobia.
noellsq says
The letter should have been sent to all religions even thou they are not to blame. Again i think Great Britain is no longer great but a cess pool of Muslims
B. LANE says
GREAT BRITAIN IS NOW NOT-SO-GREAT-BRITAIN.
NEXT TIME, HAVE MR. PICKLES SEND THE LETTER RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED. THAT’LL SHOW THEM GREAT BRITAIN, OR WHAT IS LEFT OF IT, STILL HAS GUTS.
deja vu says
Demsci says: Now I see Islam largely as negative deviation, as you do. And these goodhearted but spineless politicians who exonerate Islam time and again I also see as negative deviations But the Muslims themselves supposedly see Islam as a positive deviation. Even Robert Spencer says that Muslims know what they are FOR, what they are committed to.
—————————————————————————-
I’m not as optimistic as you are, Demsci. I see Islam as much more than a mere ‘deviation’. I see it as a raw struggle between good and evil, light and darkness, which has escalated as the West abandons its former anchor in the Judeo-Christian ethic. I see politicians as being either extremely naive or part of a deliberate policy of destroying the sovereignty of their nations. Their spinelessness comes from not wanting to rock the boat and the fear of jeopardising their own positions. The real question is what or who is pulling the strings behind the scenes? Think about it – the only ‘spine’ a sock puppet has is someone’s hand.
Yes, Muslims know what they’re for – they’ve been indoctrinated from birth. Remember they’re *born* Muslim and cannot ‘deviate’ without penalty. Furthermore, their nations are moribund because Islam does not encourage questioning or taking initiative. Every small detail of a Muslim’s personal and public life is governed by fear of doing something that is ‘not permitted’. The only Muslims who do well are Westernised and usually non-practising. A medical student we know did his elective in Saudi Arabia and said that their hospital system would totally collapse without its expatriate staff. If it was possible to withdraw all expats from the Arab world, we’d see them on their knees in no time. It angers me to see the gloating over Dubai with all its glitz and opulence. Not much mention of the wretched slave labourers who built the place and live in squalor, dying in droves from preventable accidents and disease.
Demsci: And we in the West? At best we see only negative deviations and are only in defense-mode, depressively so.
I believe the West does know what it’s for – at least there are some remnants left who remember that we once lived in free societies which allowed for robust intellectual enquiry, free speech, freedom of the Press, of association and so on. Decades of marxist infiltration of our universities and the education system, as well as in the media and public square – plus political correctness, the stifling of open debate, and the imposition of multiculturalism without the mandate of the population – has eroded almost every national characteristic we once possessed. The unique ethos of European nations has been all but destroyed. The big question is for what purpose? Why?
Demsci: But can there be positive deviations among the Muslims? I think there are a few, and mayor Aboutaleb and president Al Sisi may be among them. They, as Muslims, have said that people not willing to obey Western laws should leave Western countries and that it is Islam itself that has a problem.
You may be interested to read this article about Al Sisi. There are glimmers of hope here, but let’s not get too carried away just yet. http://www.danielpipes.org/15430/sisi-islam-reform