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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

“We have avenged Muhammad”: Muslims murder 12 at French satirical mag

Jan 7, 2015 8:43 am By Robert Spencer

charlie-hebdo-mohammed-cartoon-franceIf they had mocked Jesus only, they would have been lauded and feted by the Western media and intelligentsia. Instead, they also mocked Muhammad, and were thus derided as “Islamophobic.” Now Islamic jihadis have murdered them, in accord with the death penalty for blasphemy in Islam. Will Hollande dismiss this as workplace violence, or even worse, will the Western elites sit back and say, “Well, they had it coming, they mocked Muhammad”? My money is on the latter.

More jihad savagery in France: “Charlie Hebdo: Gun attack on French magazine kills 12,” BBC, January 7, 2015:

Gunmen have attacked the Paris office of French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, killing 12 people and injuring seven in an apparent Islamist attack.

At least two masked attackers opened fire with assault rifles in the office and exchanged shots with police in the street outside before escaping by car.

The gunmen shouted “we have avenged the Prophet Muhammad”, witnesses say.

President Francois Hollande said there was no doubt it had been a terrorist attack “of exceptional barbarity”.

A major police operation is under way in the Paris area to catch the killers.

The satirical weekly has courted controversy in the past with its irreverent take on news and current affairs. It was fire-bombed in November 2011 a day after it carried a caricature of the Prophet Muhammad.

The latest tweet on Charlie Hebdo’s account was a cartoon of the Islamic State militant group leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi….

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Filed Under: Featured, France, free speech, Jihad in the West Tagged With: Charlie Hebdo


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Comments

  1. Zoltar says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 8:47 am

    ‘The Future Must Not Belong To Those Who Slander The Prophet Of Islam’ said Barack Obama.

    How true that turned out to be.

    • wallace says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 9:52 am

      Hi zoltar, i am no legal expert but slander is i think a spoken statement , for it to be proven in a court of law the statement has to be shown as false. Given that the truth re- Muhammed , rapist, pedophile, torturer, thief, misogynist etc, etc . I would be hard pressed to come up with a statement that could be construed as slander when it comes to Mo. My heart goes out to all the families that have lost loved ones on this sad day in Paris. We are at war with The Religion of Peace i dont give a shit what my politicians are trying to feed me. I wish i had the right to bear arms. Best wishes to all on J.W for 2015, we have to do what we can do

      • somehistory says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 12:30 pm

        muslims define *slander* as anything they don’t like…even if it is just quoting a muslim, but especially if it is the truth about islam and the false prophet. Slander, as non-muslims know it, is entirely different. islam and muslims who devoutly worship the beast have their own definitions for many words, slander being just one of those many.

      • voegelinian says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 2:29 pm

        No modern civilized country has a law punishinig slander against someone who lived in the 7th century.

    • DP111 says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 9:58 am

      ‘The Future Must Not Belong To Those Who Slander The Prophet Of Islam’ said Barack Obama.

      How true. Certainly no future for Charlie Hebdo and its staff.

      The gunmen also claimed that “Allah is greater”.

      The idiot MSM still think that Allah Ackbar means God is great. Thirteen years after 9/11, and they still dont get.

    • AnneM says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 10:58 am

      In truth, with the reality of the internet and search engines, anyone can do a “Google” or a “Bing” search to look for Mohammed cartoons and those cartoons can be found.

      “The Future Must Not Belong To Those Who Slander The Prophet Of Islam” said Barack Obama.

      So the above saying has for all purposes been “defeated.”

  2. Frank Scarn says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 8:48 am

    Because of feckless/gutless politicians these murders will be excused. Because they were committed by Muslims. They are as responsible for the murders as the murdering Muslims themselves. Not unlike the “What do we want? Dead cops” protesters in NYC.

    To the unknowing world, to liberals, and to Muslim apologists, only actual Muslim attacks count. A foiled Muslim attack proves nothing. The surveillance work by the NYPD and other surveillance agencies in foiling/preventing would-be Muslim attacks counts for nothing.

    Now we have, yet once again as in Fort Hood (2009), as in Boston (2013), and countless other places outside the USA, more murdering Muslims who do as they will in the name of their Islam.

    Expect now the predictable, super-annealing use of the Muslim EXCUSE Machine, familiar to every counter-jihad reader, to be kicked into high gear, with its sole purpose being to invent reasons why an obvious Muslim attack is not a Muslim attack. “Who are you going to believe, us or your lyin’ eyes?”

    Allahu Akbar all other the place, but the J-I-M words are never used in officialdom or in the MSM. Jihad. Islam. Muslim.

    Nothing grabs one’s attention like being hit on the side of the head with a 2 by 4. And from all appearance it will take more Muslim attacks against infidels with the loss of Western lives before more necessary lessons about Islamic ideology are learned.

    The left is smiling today.

    • voegelinian says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 2:31 pm

      It is irrational to treat foiled terror plots as somehow less alarming than successful terror attacks. The sheer number of attempts by Muslims to mass-murder us in the West should be factored in and should count equally with the successful attacks; but of course the Mainstream refuses to do so (and even many in the Counter-Jihad argue as though they agree with the Mainstream on this point).

  3. noellsq says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 8:48 am

    No,it couldn’t have been peace loving immigrants who happened to be Muslims. Open your door wider and the the new face of France will bless Alah

  4. El says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 8:49 am

    Lets hope everyone rallies and publishes more such cartoons en-masse! Its time to show the parasitic orcs that we are not afraid.

  5. Angemon says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 8:54 am

    The gunmen shouted “we have avenged the Prophet Muhammad”, witnesses say.

    And, according to my country’s media, they also asked around for specific staff members

  6. Julian says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 8:55 am

    Well… this will pretty much guarantee Marine Le Pen winning the next election in France. Robert, you ask if Western elites will question whether they had it coming. I’m afraid that is exactly what they are doing – check this link. Monstrous behaviour – potentially traces of the beginning of civil war in Europe.

    https://twitter.com/AgnesCPoirier/status/552800290861510656

    • john spielman says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 9:20 am

      I’m afraid a civil war (though it will be anything but civil ) is on the horizon for all countries with a sizable mulsim population, as islam is completly incompatible with domocratic principles of freedom of religion and freedom of speech

      • DP111 says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 10:11 am

        It was politicians who allowed millions of Muslims to live in the West. Now the RoP is doing what it does best, the politicians are making sure that they, and the elites, are well protected, while leaving us to take the brunt.

        Oh. I wonder if the Bishop of Cologne cathedral will be switching off the lights at Cologne cathedral. He certainly didnt, to show solidarity with Christians as they were and are, massacred in the Islamic world.

        I have warned of a cvil war in Europe in the very early years on Jihad Watch, and before it on Dhimmi Watch and LGF.

        http://fjordman.blogspot.co.uk/2005/08/will-muslim-immigration-trigger-wars.html

      • voegelinian says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 2:38 pm

        “Civil War” is a war amongst citizens fighting against each other. Muslims are not Western, and the Western citizens among them are not really citizens (their allegiance is to the Umma that is at war against us for fuck sake).

        So this is not a “civil war” that is looming, but a war by aliens within the West whom the West has stupidly allowed to stream in by the millions over the past few decades (perversely only increasing post-911) as a demographic Trojan Camel.

        This Mohammedan war against us as yet has not been conventional, if only because Mohammedans have been incapable of mounting one against any country more sophisticated than a backwater Third World country. The last time Muslims were able to conventionally attack the West was 1683 (which they lost). This Mohammedan war against us they have had to wage in unconventional ways — including a deft combination of terrorism (a variety of flavors, from commando operations to seemingly “lone wolf” attacks to a more amorphous deployment of “civil unrest” and seemingly mere criminal behavior) along with demographic inundation and stealth jihad (the latter two enormously assisted by the idiocy of Western PC MC).

        This protracted train wreck in the offing can, however, be minimized, if the West comes around sooner, rather than later, to the resolve to deport all its Muslims to the Muslim world.

  7. Coolio says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 8:55 am

    Any media which reports on this story without showing the Muhammed cartoons shown in Charlie Hebdo is part of the problem. We need a united media onslaught of Muhammed cartoons until the moslems get used to it.

    • wallace says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 10:21 am

      Coolio you are of course correct. Unfortunately the way the media is today there is more chance of seeing a flying pig. What should happen is that thousands of pamphlets that take the utter piss out of Mo and his pseudo religion get air-dropped over all the muslime hellholes of Europe

  8. Tradewinds says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 8:55 am

    France imported millions of Muslims. It’s only natural that in accordance with Islam the Muslims will “Kill the infidels.” Of course the Muslims feel entirely justified due to the texts and teachings of Islam to KILL.

    • shosh7154 says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 9:28 am

      why is everyone so shocked by this….reams of footage years and years of evidence and france is victim of france

      when will anyone get it …………….islam is death to everything and everyone

      france invited with open arms the death of everything French including the entire French population

      • Jay Boo says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 12:05 pm

        Let us not to forget to include Muslims and their vile unholy ideology in the blame.
        Muslims did this.
        It is what they do.
        Let us rub their faces in their own stink.

    • DP111 says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 10:26 am

      Muslim texts and imams have made it abundantly clear for centuries, that they are mandated by allah to impose sharia throughout the world, by force if necessary. To claim that Islam is a RoP is sheer stupidity. Then to bring in milions of Muslims to the West, is treasonous stupidity.

      Muslims and the texts the of Islam have warned us through the centuries of the fdanger of Islam. Our experience in Europe right till the siege of Vienna, and writers such as Churchil, also warned about the dangets of Islam. There is no point now in blaming Islam and Muslims, for the catastrophe now in progress in the West, as Muslims were quite truthful of their intent. The catasrophe of widespread fear, and the blood of thousands of Europeans and Americans is on the hands of Western politicians.
      .

      • boakai ngombu says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 11:12 am

        and thus, the wraith Muhammad (lately contrived; full of lusts) will not be avenged, especially as the mosque (turning point and training center; armory; porous) will continue to heed the malevolent and belligerent Allah god of Islam (unknowable; the best of all deceivers) as it hears the “noble” Koran (the shepherd of the blind) blasted into the subconscious of the slaves, through the imposition of the SHARIA at their every breath in their limited days.

  9. Jennifer Ashcroft says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 8:59 am

    Of course we must be careful not to jump to conclusions. This could be the work of right-wing extremists:
    http://edgar1981.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/paris-attacks-do-not-jump-to.html

    • Mirren10 says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 3:35 pm

      Brilliant little article, and so suicidally true.

  10. dsinc says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 8:59 am

    Close the mosques, ban the koran and deport as many as possible. The burning of cars should be countered with deadly force. Shoot to kill. Zero tolerance.

  11. Jaladhi says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 8:59 am

    Stop Muslim immigration and deport all Muslims to Islamic countries. They cannot live with human beings!!Sad!!

  12. Undaunted says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 9:01 am

    Coming to a US city soon. There is absolutely no reason at all that this won’t be perpetrated here. Let’s hope and pray that when it does take place that, rather than wait for cops that may be delayed in responding to the scene, armed and trained citizens gun down the shooters before they can ride off into the sunset.

    • voegelinian says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 2:44 pm

      Muslims have already mass murdered Americans several times in the past 15 years; and in addition have plotted numerous attacks on Americas — all of which plots should be factored in and count as though they had been tragically successful. So I’m not sure why you use the future tense there.

      • Undaunted says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 8:34 pm

        I was referring specifically to heavily-armed terrorists shooting up the town as I covered here:

        http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/2014/06/i-kid-you-not-about-the-mom-and-pop-home-schoolers-being-considered-a-more-probable-threat-than-terrorists-in-the-neck-of.html

        And, I’m actually up to speed on all the attacks Muslims have carried out against the US in the past 15 years.

        Does that help?

        • Undaunted says

          Jan 7, 2015 at 8:36 pm

          Here’s another one that might be of interest to those not willing to surrender to these fuckers:

          http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/2011/05/why-bad-guys-do-so-well-in-gunfights-httpwwwpoliceonecomofficer-shootingsarticles2056185-why-do-bad-guys-seem-to-do-s.html

        • voegelinian says

          Jan 8, 2015 at 1:24 am

          Yes, the specifically Mumbai/Nairobi style attack has not been done yet in America.

      • Undaunted says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 8:37 pm

        And another of my favorites…

        http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/2010/10/hioh-silver.html

  13. Rebecca says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 9:01 am

    How come Jews aren’t murdering them for publishing offensive cartoons abt Jews?
    how come christians aren’t murdering them for publishing offensive cartoons abt the pope?

    The response will be to curtain free speech against muslims, either thru pressure, or through intimidation- who wants to put them selves in danger?

  14. Jovial Joe says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 9:02 am

    A great comment from a poster at The Guardian : ‘Perhaps the cowards at Cologne cathedral will at least light a few candles to mourn the dead.

    Ashamed to be a Roman Catholic’.

    • Saycheese says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 10:28 am

      Be realistic. Their most likely reaction will be #Iwillridewithyou.

    • Frank says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 11:11 am

      I was born a Roman Catholic. I was ashamed of it very early in my life, having to play the hypocrite. That is why I am not a Roman Catholic anymore.

      • Jay Boo says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 12:21 pm

        Rather than whine and offer generalities of how terribly ashamed you were early in you life to be a Roman Catholic and how badly you feel to have been a “hypocrite” as if that is the ‘real problem’ why not take a moment to reflect on the vile behavior of Muslims and their ideology that makes them feel entitled to take the lives of these people.

        Islam:
        What sings a call of duty to prayer?
        It hides in his wretched devil’s lair
        Seduced by lyrics of a prophetic liar
        who sings the song of Satan’s unholy desire.

      • voegelinian says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 2:51 pm

        Nearly two years ago, the ex-Muslim convert to Roman Catholicism, Magdo Allam, formally left the Church. His personal and public odyssey is illustrative:

        He began as a Muslim “reformer”, tepidly calling for the usual schizophrenically surreal censure of aspects of Islam, but not the whole enchilada.

        Being an intelligent man with a conscience, he could not sustain this schizophrenia any longer and left Islam, and converted to Christianity. He decided to become Catholic, and was baptized by Pope Benedict in St. Peter’s Square on Eastern Sunday in 2008.

        At first, as a Muslim apostate who had converted to Christianity, he continued an asymptotic line of calling for “reform” of Islam (as though that were any m ore feasible than a reform of Satanism or Nazism).

        Finally, he freed himself from this ridiculously asymptotic ideal and realized the grim truth of Islam.

        “In a profoundly symbolic gesture (hat tip Tundra Tabloids), which epitomizes the Catholic Church’s abject dhimmitude, high-profile Muslim convert to Christianity Magdi Christiano Allam, has renounced his Catholicism because of what he terms the Church’s weakness toward, and legitimation of, Islam.

        “Allam, who will remain a Christian, reiterated his belief that Islam is inherently violent, to both its own votaries, and [to] non-Muslims, and criticized The Church for lacking “the vision and courage to denounce the incompatibility of Islam with our [Western] civilization and fundamental rights of the person.”

        http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/03/magdi_allam_leaves_catholic_church_over_its_dhimmitude.html

  15. Lesley says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 9:05 am

    I believe that France’s Hollande called this a terrorist attack, and I am so glad to hear a Western leader call this Islamist violence what it is! Islam is at war with the West whether we choose to recognize this fact, or not. It is vital that we call these acts what they are: terrorism… and terrorism is an act of war. As long as we call it ‘workplace violence’ or ‘mental illness’ we are vulnerable. This is an important first step! The West is waking up!

    • Ernie says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 9:21 am

      Dear Lesley : “The West is waking up ! “. Well , I hope so my friend ! As long as our politicians differ between “islam” and “islamism” we’ll have a huge problem .

    • Mirren10 says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 3:44 pm

      ”I believe that France’s Hollande called this a terrorist attack, and I am so glad to hear a Western leader call this Islamist violence what it is!”

      Except that he didn’t.

      A ‘terrorist attack’ could, of course refer to those ‘right wing extremists’, who are all over the place, murdering and raping. Or of course, it could be the wicked Joooos, dressed up as mohammedans to make ‘islam look bad’, or Christian ‘fundamentalists’, or, well, you get the drift.

      If any Western leader ever comes out and calls these attacks ‘islamic’, I’ll fall off my chair and eat my hat.

      I’m just waiting for the ”this has nothing to do with islam” crap.

  16. Michael Copeland says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 9:10 am

    “I am a soldier and we are at war”, said one of the London 7/7 bombers.
    He was not believed.

    • Mirren10 says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 3:46 pm

      Yep. The murderers of Lee Rigby also called themselves ‘soldiers’. In fact their disgusting and traitorous barrister actually made the statement as part of their *defence*.

      Will this insanity ever end ?

      • dumbledoresarmy says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 10:30 pm

        Yes. And the doe-eyed hijabettes – the ones who will be all over the place, pretty soon, batting their eyelashes and pretending to cry as they whine about how, after this jihad mass murder of ten unarmed white-collar workers and two cops, the nasty wicked infidels are looking at them funny and refusing to sit next to them in the bus – and sinister masked niqabettes and burqa babes are the camp followers of the army of Islam, proudly wearing their Uniform, their Sharia badge. Or, to vary the analogy, they are the gang molls of the Mohammedan Mob, proudly flaunting their Gang Colours. They also function as its human shields (see Gaza, not so long ago).

  17. Allan Mandrowski says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 9:22 am

    THIS IS WHY A LEFT-LEANING LIKE MYSELF OPPOSES THIS DEATH CULT OF MURDER AND KILLING.

    ISLAM IS INCOMPATIBLE WITH WESTERN SOCIETY.

    • mortimer says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 9:45 am

      Allan,
      You have a lot of work to convince the other cultural Marxists! They have made Muslims ‘officially designated victims’ who may not be criticized. If you criticize Muslims, you will be a heretic and burned at the stake by the Leftists.

    • KateisFedUp says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 11:27 am

      I, too, am socially progressive, but as a person who studied Islamic law and Middle Eastern culture for her master’s degree/thesis, I have warned against the ideology of Islam for many years. Islam is not a religion, it is a violent, all-encompassing ideology whose ultimate goal is world domination and the submission of everything and everybody. Wikipedia has a list of Muslim terror attacks which grows longer every day, and I recommend that our cowardly Western politicians have a good, hard look at this list, because if terror hasn’t arrived in their territory yet, it is on the way soon. Our forefathers fought against the Islamisation of Europe and actively defeated invading Muslim armies, whilst we invite them in, thus spitting on the sacrifices made by those who came before us and who enabled us to become the free, tolerant and wealthy societies we are today. I am sure they are spinning in their graves.

      Mr Mandrowski, you are absolutely correct in stating that Islam with its mediaeval world view is absolutely incompatible with Western societies who are rooted in the humanism and enlightenment movements of the late 17th and early 18th centuries. Islam and its followers are stuck in the dark ages but with access to modern technology and weapons which makes them even more deadly.

  18. dumbledoresarmy says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 9:25 am

    In the USA the jihadis attacked the Twin Towers and the Pentagon and then, later, Fort Hood and the Boston Marathon.

    In the UK, the jihadis attacked the London buses and the underground.

    In Israel, the jihadis murdered – most recently – four praying rabbis in a synagogue and the Druze policeman who was first on the scene. In Israel, the jihadis attack everything and everyone, in total hate for all life and flourishing.

    In Russia, they attacked a school full of children – and the railways, and a theatre.

    In India the jihadis attacked Mumbai: trains, hotels, railway station, the Chabad guest house.

    Australians were murdered along with other tourists when jihadis blew up a night club in Bali; and two Australians – a young hotshot Sydney lady lawyer and a handsome young gay cafe manager – were murdered when a jihad ghazi raider attacked a chocolate shop in Martin Place.

    In the Netherlands, it was Theo Van Gogh – a freethinking Dutch gadfly who helped an apostate from Islam make a film about Islamic misogyny – who was murdered, ritually butchered in the street by a sharia assassin.

    The Mohammedan mob always, always, always tries to strike at the heart, at the thing that makes a society or a city what it is.

    First – Mohammed Merah – they attacked and murdered French soldiers (including a North African Berber apostate from Islam to Catholicism) and they attacked and murdered a rabbi, his two sons, and a little Jewish girl. And now they attack Charlie Hebdo: Charlie Hebdo that had dared to cock a very, very French satirical snook at them and their vile, absurd, vicious death cult.

    The proper response would be for every free French person to buy a copy of Charlie Hebdo’s latest edition, first of all.

    The second would be for every single media outlet in France to publish Robert Redeker’s critique of Islam on their front page, plus Jacques Ellul’s essay on Jihad, plus a selection of the most scathing critiques of Islam written by notable Frenchmen of the past.

    And concomitant with this: for the free French to create their own version of PEGIDA. And march on their seat of government to demand that Muslim immigration stops, now, and that all Muslims be kicked out of France, now.

    Further remark.

    For all those longtime regulars at this forum, who may remember a man called “Hugh Fitzgerald”.

    Here is what Hugh has had to say, about *this*. This latest piece of Mohammedan SH*T that has been perpetrated in the midst of Paris, in the midst of the West, on the day after Epiphany.

    http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/58463

    Wednesday, 7 January 2015
    The Horrible Dangerous Meretricious Slaves Of Allah We’ve Allowed In

    • Tom Davis says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 10:30 am

      Thumbs up, as usual.

    • Judi says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 12:42 pm

      Excellent well researched comment.

    • voegelinian says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 3:09 pm

      Yes, Hugh Fitzgerald, the only person (the only person well-known and generally liked, that is, unlike me) in the Counter-Jihad who seriously broached the Deportation Meme (and citing the Benes Decree(s) as a solid precedent).

      As I reminded people a year ago here:

      http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/02/czech-muslims-call-for-ban-on-book-by-ex-muslim/comment-page-1#comment-1013363

      And:

      http://jihadswatch.blogspot.com/2007/08/hugh-fitzgerald-finally-goes-official.html

      http://hesperado.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-benes-decrees-pro-and-con.html

      • Mirren10 says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 4:03 pm

        ”Yes, Hugh Fitzgerald, the only person (the only person well-known and generally liked, that is, unlike me) ”

        Voeg, I like you, even though you’re sometimes infuriating. But why do people get angry with you ? *Not* because you push deportation of all muslims. Think about it, sweetie.

        • voegelinian says

          Jan 7, 2015 at 5:05 pm

          Yes Mirren, a person’s objectionable personality is more important than Muslims killing us. Gotcha.

        • voegelinian says

          Jan 7, 2015 at 6:31 pm

          I.f.e., I’m not here to win a personality contest.

  19. Wakingwest says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 9:27 am

    The execution of free speech

  20. Jovial Joe says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 9:28 am

    Herr Merkel’s response: “This abominable act is not only an attack on the lives of French citizens and their security, it is also an attack on freedom of speech and the press, core elements of our free democratic culture.”
    How do these politicians’ heads not explode from the cognitive dissonance given her attack on the Pegida marchers? I would expect her to at least die of embarassment.

    • Ernie says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 10:18 am

      Dear Joe , “Herr” Merkel has no feelings of shame or embaressment , because when PEGIDA stated : WE ARE THE PEOPLE AND WE WANT YOU TO LISTEN TO OUR CONCERNS , “Herr” MERKEL showed her ugly face in smearing the movement . She made perfectly clear how she thinks about the people : THE PEOPLE ARE TO BE RULED instead of : THE PEOPLE RULE . And that is called : DEMOCRATIE ! Madame is ARROGANT beyond belief !

      • Ernie says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 11:40 am

        Sorry , it should be DEMOCRACY .

      • Mirren10 says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 4:09 pm

        ”Madame is ARROGANT beyond belief ”

        Isn’t she also an ex- Stasi informer ? How did she ever manage to get herself into mainstream German politics ?

        • Ernie says

          Jan 7, 2015 at 5:18 pm

          Dear Mirren , IM Erika is the name of a former STASI informer . Many people think it was Angela Merkel . Though , it’s not for sure .

  21. zulu says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 9:31 am

    more:

    12 DEAD IN PARIS MASSACRE: Islamic gunmen execute French police officer as he pleads for his life after terror attack on satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo at centre of Mohammed cartoon storm
    -Masked gunmen storm Paris headquarters with AK-47s shouting ‘Allahu akbar!’ and ‘the Prophet has been avenged’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2900259/Gunmen-kill-11-Charlie-Hebdo-attack.html#ixzz3O97MEdGM

  22. Dazed & Confused says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 9:39 am

    Policeman executed on a Paris street by Islamist scum..

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/01/07/watch-islamic-terrorists-murder-french-police-officer/

  23. ed says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 9:46 am

    sky news have already demoted the men to “criminals” so nothing to do with islam here so,move on

  24. CentralPARealist says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 9:54 am

    Is the beginning of the end of the informal and uneasy alliance of Marxist and Muslims? Their alliance is based on the dictum “The enemy of my enemy is my friend”. For both of these groups there most formidable enemy is Christianity.
    I have thought the anti-ISIS actions of the Arab governments was due to ISIS unambiguous declaration of it’s ultimate goals. Shh, do not let those useful idiot left wing politicians, journalists, and professors know what we are doing until it is too late for them to stop us.

    • Mirren10 says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 4:12 pm

      ”Is the beginning of the end of the informal and uneasy alliance of Marxist and Muslims?”

      I don’t think so. Not until, and unless, the muslims turn on the Marxists. Which they won’t do, as yet, because the left are too useful to them. Same goes for the government shills.

  25. MKG says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 9:58 am

    In fast, did a thorough job, out fast. Make no mistake people, these guys were pros. Suicide bombers and religious nutcases on a shooting spree are one thing, these guys are dangerous. We will see how France handles this. In the mean time every one else better keep on their toes. This could be the prelude of an ISIS campaign abroad.

  26. Bartender says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 10:25 am

    Part of the responsibility must go to Merkel and the other apologists and liars who are spurring the Islamists on with their apologies. When will they wake up and join the marchers against Islam in Germany?

    There is no negotiating or appeasing these Islamists in exactly the same way that it was impossible to negotiate or appease Hitler. Their book tells them to kill us (or enslave and tax us) no matter how nice we are.

  27. arn says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 10:26 am

    Another masterpeace of muslim culture

  28. German Man Against Islam & MASSimmigration says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 10:26 am

    12 Weeks we have been telling and warning Europe in the streets of Germany about the consequences of radical salafists, radical islam etc. #PEGIDA

    • Bartender says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 10:40 am

      Thank you. We stand behind you.

    • dumbledoresarmy says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 4:05 pm

      Bless you, mate. And, yes, like the other poster said, thank you!

      Please, please, please: keep on protesting. Don’t stop! And make it bigger. Because if you do, you cannot be ignored, and possibly you will kick off sister movements in other countries.

      And…God bless you and protect you and grant that you prevail.

      Note: Be aware that the mohammedans as well as their so-called antifa proxies/ catspaws may attack you. PLAN for this. EXPECT it. Think of what you will do as groups and individually if, which God forbid, there is a truck bomb, or a human bomb (‘suicide-bomber’) or a gang of Muslims appears with kalashnikovs, like in this attack in Paris, and starts firing at you all, when you are gathered in one of your rallies. You are out there in the open, at the forefront of your society, saying a loud NO to Islamisation, to the jihad. Be brave…and be smart.

    • Mirren10 says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 4:16 pm

      Your post is great, and I stand behind you, and thank you.

      But please, please, please; stop referring to ”radical salafists, radical islam”.

      There *is* no ‘radical islam, or ‘radical salafists’. It is all islam, islam, islam. And of course, the mohammedans who enact its tenets.

  29. Beagle says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 10:33 am

    Charlie Hebdo was the most obvious target due to 99.99% of media being sharia compliant and yet their security apparently consisted of a couple uniformed police officers. No safe room or armed undercover officers inside it sounds like.

    The media is already suggesting Charlie Hedbo sort of deserved it for their insulting “the prophet”. I’d say it’s a clash of civilizations, but in order to clash both sides need to be fighting. It’s more like the slow strangulation of a civilization.

  30. bicky says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 10:34 am

    i am eagerly for the comments of the POTUS, wonder how he will explain away this incident.

    • Judi says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 12:26 pm

      He sends out John Kerry instead.

  31. Steve Snyder says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 10:39 am

    “The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy.” John 10:10a
    True of the Poser in Chief, true of jihadis. There is no difference.
    Fox News is blowing a huge opportunity, characteristically.
    They are fabricating the lie that the terrorists shouted “God is great”. Not my God, not Netanyahu’s, but the false moon god, Allah, who is nothing but a demon foisted upon Esau’s descendants.
    This lie, if left uncorrected, will aid in the persecution of Jews and Christians in the years ahead.

    • Atheist says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 1:49 pm

      You are none better mate,
      your Christian fellows in the USA are only second to Al Qaeda and only because they managed to blow up the WTC, nevertheless the Oklahoma bombing is still the second worst attack in the US history, and many of the victims were children.

      And BTW, the guys of Charly Hebdo are ATHEISTS, I assume that if they were in the USA they wouldn’t have been much safer from the likes of you. Or what is the difference between being shot by a Jihadi and being shot by a Hutaree? I don’t see any mate, any at all.

      • Beagle says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 2:38 pm

        You are seriously trotting out McVeigh from 1995 when Islam is waging a world war on almost every continent in 2015?

        Idiot

        Google: McVeigh “Science is my God.”

      • somehistory says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 3:07 pm

        Such hate for someone whom you don’t even know because they have faith in Christ, which teaches followers to *love* even those who hate. That hate will consume those indulging.

        And, T. McVeigh was not a Christian and didn’t claim to be. That is a falsehood put out by those who hate Christians. McVeigh hated the same people hated by Hitler and other terrorists.

        Oh the other hand, Christians recognize that Jesus Christ was a Jew and therefore, are not haters of Jews.

      • Western Canadian says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 3:50 pm

        As if we didn’t have enough low grade, low church atheists here already…. You are uncommonly ignorant, or uncommonly dishonest. And very likely both.

      • Wellington says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 4:55 pm

        I am not religious in the least, Atheist, but you are a complete fool. Moreover, you can’t even get your facts straight. McVeigh was not a professed Christian and he certainly didn,t blow up things in Oklahoma City in the name of Christianity, contra some 25,000 documented Islamic terrorist attacks worldwide just since 9/11. Grow up intellectually if you can, which I rather doubt you ever will. Get lost, Bozo.

      • Champ says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 5:17 pm

        Atheist, are you stoned on islam or high on hate? …it’s hard to tell, which!

        Regardless, your ridiculous comment reveals a person that can’t seem to figure out what’s true, or false, so you’ve chosen to believe a pack of lies. How foolish, indeed; and your silly comment deserves all the flak you’re getting. Hey I suggest you make a New Year’s resolution to wise up and embrace the truth, if you can …

      • Jeromy says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 8:19 pm

        What a lunatic statement to say. In McVeigh’s 2002 biography American Terrorist, he stated that he did not believe in Hell and that science is his religion.In June 2001, a day before the execution, McVeigh wrote a letter to the Buffalo News identifying himself as agnostic.
        The Hutaree? A group that virtually no one has even heard of. A Michigan militia follow along the lines of Christian Identity, which like Christian Science uses the word Christian in the name, while rejecting basic Christian doctrine. Who btw, never committed a terrorist act.
        I find it hilarious that you have to take a incident that occurred in 1995, as an example of “Christian terrorism” (which is an absolute oxymoron), that obviously had 0 to do with actual Christian doctrines and beliefs, while ignoring the thousands of terrorist acts that have been committed that follow Mohammed’s example and the spirit and the letter of the Quran’s teachings and Islamic doctrine.

  32. KrazyKafir says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 10:58 am

    One big step closer to a Le Pen government.

  33. William says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 11:00 am

    I am waiting for the politicians and Mohammedans to say that the Mohammedans are now the victims. You know, the always trumpeted “backlash” against innocent Mohammedans. Look for it soon.

    Also, expect the “lone wolves” depiction.

    • Joginder Singh says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 12:20 pm

      And dont forget this “Mental illness” that seems to be affecting large sections of the muslim community and spreading to include further muslims along with their ueful idiots on the left and in the MSM and political systems

  34. xard says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 11:01 am

    Now would be a good time to sign the e-petition to ‘Allow a public vote to Ban Islam in the U.K’

    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/70069

    Don’t wait for more blood to be spilled…

  35. wallace says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 11:06 am

    The potus has been going through his little book of words in response to terrorist acts, today he has reached the letter O, so todays word is outrageous. Tomorrows letter is P , don’t know where he will go on that one. Totally screwed when he gets up to X. By the way does anyone ever hear anything on those nasty little Khorasan folk? or did we get them all when we dropped that hellfire on that garden shed?

    • paul says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 12:26 pm

      preposterous and xenephobic

  36. joeb says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 11:08 am

    As I recall, The Guardian hailed Andre Serrano’s ‘Piss Christ’ – a figure of Christ on the crucifix, submerged in a tank of the artists own urine – as one of the most important artworks of the twentieth century.

    Were the editors murdered in their office for doing this?

    • voegelinian says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 2:14 pm

      Your question has a much broader implications than that. The Piss Christ work was bouncing around in the public for decades, since at least 1989, and it was shown in hoity-toity art museums, including in New York City.

      And it’s only one example of scores of similar seeming denigration of Christian symbolisms in the (supposedly) high Arts — not to mention the years of mockery and lampoonery to which all symbolisms of Judaeo-Christianithy have received in the baser arts of our pop culture (e.g. the extremely popular TV shows The Simpsons and South Park, just to name two out of dozens one could name).

      Anyway, here’s yet another example I’d never heard of until just now, in researching the Serrano work:

      In 2010, Donohue [a Catholic who peacefully protested the Piss Christ exhibit] and the Catholic League led a successful attempt to remove from the National Portrait Gallery in Washington a film by the artist David Wojnarowicz, about Aids, that included an 11-video clip of Jesus on the cross being eaten by ants.

      • TH says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 2:55 pm

        Whilst Donahue, protest peacefully and deomcratically at such as the piss Christ, he gets no credit from the media gurus who lionize the jihadi savages or at least blame the victims, as if mahomedans were animals who have no control over their primitive instincts.

  37. Bill says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 11:38 am

    Years of appeasement now coming back to bite you in the ass, Islam is the religion of hatred and violence, all in the name of a non existent make believe prophet.

  38. Jay Boo says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 11:58 am

    Even the Huffington Post has some of these cartoons up on display to illustrate their covert support for free speech martyrs, even in the case of Islam.
    Remarkably they did not add a disclaimer beside each cartoon.
    Here is link. So far they have not self-censored it.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/07/charlie-hebdo-cartoons-paris-french-newspaper-shooting_n_6429552.html

    Included is a cartoon depicting Muhammad as gay and a cartoon depicting a member of the Islamic State group beheading Muhammad.

    • Mirren10 says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 3:03 pm

      ”Even the Huffington Post has some of these cartoons up on display to illustrate their covert support for free speech martyrs, even in the case of Islam.
      Remarkably they did not add a disclaimer beside each cartoon.”

      I am *astonished*, but very pleasantly so. Perhaps there is hope.

    • dumbledoresarmy says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 4:16 pm

      GOOD.

      The proper media response would be for every newspaper across the entire Infidel *world* to print a selection of Charlie Hebdo’s satirical Islamocritical caricatures on their front pages. And throw in the “Danish cartoons” **as well**. And commission Lars Vilks and Kurt Westergaard to create *new* works commenting on the murder of their French fellow-satirists.

      Even better would be for a large mainstream newspaper (the kind that can afford to set up heavy-duty security at head office) to start running, as a weekly comic strip, the hilarious “Mohammed’s “Believe It – OR ELSE!” cartoon skewering the worst absurdities, that was produced by an ex-Muslim.

      Or for Bosch Fawstin, proud ex-Muslim, creator of a jihad-resistant character named “Pigman”, to be signed up by a major media outlet, to do a daily or weekly cartoon comment on the global jihad, and for his graphic novel “The Infidel” and/ or the exploits of “Pigman” to be run as a serial.

      Further thought: ALL networks – are you listening, FOX et al – could run a special feature on Theo Van Gogh and broadcast his and Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s short film, “Submission” in a primetime slot. As a tribute to both Theo Van Gogh and to all other critics of Islam who have been assassinated by Mohammedan mobsters down through the years.

  39. David says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 12:02 pm

    The only way to stop these horrendous acts of terrorism is not to give them any publicity whatsoever because their aim is to promote recruitment of more members and the western press is assisting them.

    The terrorists create recruiting videos from events such as in Paris and Canada, USA and Australia and in other countries and aim to show prospective members that one or two of them can turn an entire nation upside down and provoke responses from world leaders and gain worldwide publicity. Free publicity.

    These videos, created from western media is what feeds their membership and recruitment drives by showing that they can challenge any nation all alone.

    If it was me it wouldn’t make the news and nobody would even know it happened. You would see after a short time, without the media sensationalism, that terrorism would cease. The western media has created a monster. The thing the terrorists want most is worldwide attention. I wouldn’t give them one line in a local newspaper. The media needs to stop giving them free advertising and the world leaders need to say nothing. Then it’ll die away because nobody bothers with them. As long as they hold the attention of all the world they’ll keep doing it. The media needs to ignore them not help them create recruiting videos.

    • Angemon says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 12:14 pm

      David posted:

      “ The thing the terrorists want most is worldwide attention. I wouldn’t give them one line in a local newspaper. The media needs to stop giving them free advertising and the world leaders need to say nothing. Then it’ll die away because nobody bothers with them.”

      That was a wonderful display of ignorance.

      • Jay Boo says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 12:30 pm

        So true, Angemon
        Perhaps willful as well.

        The only way to stop these horrendous acts of terrorism is not to give them the (wrong kind) of publicity whatsoever.

        Muslims need to bow there heads in shame as they have there noses rubbed into their own stink. If a dog poops on the floor we don’t offer it more appeasement biscuits.

    • William says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 12:42 pm

      “The only way to stop these horrendous acts of terrorism is not to give them any publicity whatsoever because their aim is to promote recruitment of more members and the western press is assisting them.”

      Wrong. The only way to stop these horrendous acts of terrorism is to outlaw the practice of Mohammedanism in the West. No mosques, no Imams, no Islamic schools, no importation of Mohammedans. No preferences or accommodations for Mohammedans. When are we going to get that into our thick skulls?

      Let the Mohammedans confine their murders and barbarity to their own countries. They have been doing it there for so long now and with impunity that those instances of murder become blips in the consciousness of their coreligionists. Look at many of the Mohammedan countries and you see indifference to murder. You see the bombings, the assassinations and so on. Thirty, three hundred, and more murdered in one instant, and life goes on as usual. They shrug and with little concern say “God wills it.” Are we to become that?

    • Ernie says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 1:05 pm

      So , David , you are NOT for a free press ?!

    • St. Croix says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 1:17 pm

      David, are you advising we all walk around with bags on our heads and pretend it will go away? That’s what a lot of folks did with Hitler and the Nazi party, including many Germans who were against the whole thing; then it was suddenly too late.

    • Ashley says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 1:30 pm

      Are you seriously suggesting that acts of Islamic terror be censored?

      OMG…

    • Mirren10 says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 4:24 pm

      Yes, let’s by all means censor the news, and make sure no-one knows about murderous mohammedans. If you’re not a total moron, then you’re a troll, and a singularly inept one. Bugger off.

  40. Thomas Cherian Mullamootil says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 12:23 pm

    It is absolutely HIGH HIGH HIGH TIME the Western World WAKE UP and stop Immigration of MUSLIMS.

    I urge Robert Spencer to use his influence to demand Republican Congress to set aside 80% of current immigration quota exclusively to people who are born in Central & South American. This will automatically reduce muslim immigration from current level of 150K to 15K by virtue that Central and South America has virtually no Islam.

    Peace,
    Brown Skinned Immigrant

  41. raju says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 12:30 pm

    Atleast from now the entire world act proactivly to defeat unless tis will continue

  42. Angry says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 12:52 pm

    And no doubt the radical far left will say the satirical employees deserved what they got for mocking THEIR prophet; after-all, the radical far left call anyone who mocks their prophet a ‘racist, fascist, nazi’ etc..

    There’s NO condemnation for this massacre from the radical far left, nor from the imams (dhimmi leaders) who order them to protest against those who oppose the islamisation of Europe (and USA, Australia etc..).

    It’s not just islam that needs wiping off the planet, it’s the radical far left scum also!

    Everyone, everywhere, start protesting against the radical far left and show your opposition towards them wherever they hide (Universities, Colleges, Union buildings, Left wing media outlets) and make them run out of Europe; before the extreme worst happens to them in the very near future.

  43. Angemon says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 1:02 pm

    OK, here’s a question I don’t think anyone asked yet: exactly who were these people? What’s their background? All aspects of the atack make me believe that they had military experience. I don’t see any hints that they were foreigners – although trivial details such as an accent might have been overlooked by the witnesses – so that begs the question: are they islamic state jihadis taking their fight home or are they fully fledged members of the French army?

    Another thing: Charlie Hebdo’s headquarters were under police surveillance since the attacks in 2011. The bastards knew where and how to strike, and had an estimate of how long they had in order to make a clean getaway. This was not a couple of guys who decided to act on a whim, like the car attacks – this was studied and planned. And I doubt the perpetrators will ever be caught: if they’re members of the French army they can just act like they had no part in it, if they’re islamic state jihadis returning home then they’ll fade into invisibility in any of the “no-go” zones.

    • Mirren10 says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 3:08 pm

      All excellent points, Angemon.

      The truth is, these vermin have infiltrated themselves deeply into our body politic, our law enforcement, our armies, and our governments. These attacks will **keep on happening** because we have let in the rabid dogs, and fed them.

    • TH says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 3:14 pm

      If the French government had a minimum of common sense they would send in thearmy and special forces to the no-go zones with tanks and all and give the mahomedans the message that they are not in charge there.

    • dumbledoresarmy says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 4:24 pm

      Good points.

      However: right now the French police and the army have the perfect excuse to surprise-raid and search – with deployment of overwhelming force – EVERY known mosque in Paris and surrounds.

      And then every *other* mosque in France.

      Because even if they don’t find these particular murderers hiding there, I’m sure that in most of them – so long as they strike FAST before the mohammedans have time to hide it – all sorts of nasty stuff, sufficient in many cases to justify shutting down every mosque where evidence of illegal/ seditious/ criminal activity is found and arresting/ charging/ DEPORTING any number of imams and sheikhs and other head honchos/ gang bosses/ capi dei capi of the mohammedan mob.

      So even if they didn’t catch these specific murderers, they would come out ahead.

  44. abad says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 1:04 pm

    France needs to round up every single Muslim on her soil and deport them all back to Arabia. Islam is a threat to French culture and society and does not belong in a civilized nation.

    • Angry says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 1:42 pm

      islam and the evil ones who adhere to it, needs to be deported or expelled from every single civilised nation on the planet (not just France); along with the radical far left fascists who defend them and fight for them.

      Blame the French left-wingers who love and adore asylum seekers and immigrants from middle eastern shitholes; they are responsible for the allowed influx of islamic filth into their cowardly nation and they are responsible for turning a blind eye and a deaf ear to the obvious threat that we we common sense have been pointing out for years.

      Blame the democratic, socialist left.

  45. don vito says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 1:49 pm

    I have read the comments to this time, many are wonderful, all are to a degree enlightening. My condolences to the families of those murdered as a sacrifice to the god of the moslems, allah. I believe this religious ritual of murder is another attack in the continuing “Koranic Wars” against the Kufr world. However, I’m still waiting on the final authority on truth and accuracy on JW, to make his appearance on this thread, semeru, your opinion please.

  46. dsinc says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 2:04 pm

    Je suis Charlie Hebdo.

    • Roderick MacUalraig says

      Jan 8, 2015 at 3:54 am

      OO – RAH!!!!!!!

  47. voegelinian says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 2:18 pm

    Remember guys, to push against the Deportation Meme!

    1) “We don’t want to become like them”

    2) “It’s unrealistic, it’ll never happen”

    3) “Muslims who are citizens are magically harmless and peaceful”

    4) “Where are you going to deport them to…?” [my favorite of the obtuse questions, as if there don’t exist 56 Muslim majority countries, any one of which would provide ample space to house all the Muslims in the West now.

    5) “What if the country we are deporting them to says ‘no’…?” LOL, like we should care what Muslims say in this matter of paramount urgency.

    6) “Most Muslims in the West aren’t being violent” (that was a doozy from Wellington)

    7) “We don’t like Hesperado’s personality, therefore the idea of Deportation is wrong and we don’t have to provide a counter-argument.”

    • Myxlplik says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 2:44 pm

      Details be damned, at this rate someone’s getting ethnically cleansed geographically, because the only way to escape Muslim Jihad Sharia enforcement is death or, living in an area with few Muslims. There will be high ground, the where and the how is the only question I have at this point.

      • eib says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 3:06 pm

        The high ground will be called resistance.

    • Angemon says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 3:00 pm

      voegelinian stands in the graves of 12 innocent people to lash back at JW commentators whose questions he failed to aptly address. No respect for the victims, just another opportunity for voeg to push his agenda and deride distinguished members of the CJ movement, like Wellington. What an execrable piece of human garbage.

    • Champ says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 6:11 pm

      voeg claims:

      7) “We don’t like Hesperado’s personality, therefore the idea of Deportation is wrong and we don’t have to provide a counter-argument.”

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Huh? What does your “personality” have to do with ANYTHING. Nothing, that’s what. And oh my God are you obtuse!!!! …for the one-millionth time, no one likes your mass deportation idea due to the fact that it’s unlawful and unconstitutional, etc, etc …NOT because of your “personality”. Wow but thanks for the laugh! 😀

      Plus, your friendly-fire is outright annoying …

      And Angemon wrote to voeg:

      “voegelinian stands in the graves of 12 innocent people to lash back at JW commentators whose questions he failed to aptly address. No respect for the victims, just another opportunity for voeg to push his agenda and deride distinguished members of the CJ movement, like Wellington.”

      Exactly!!! …you have lost friends and support for this very reason; one of them, anyway …

  48. jjjags says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 2:32 pm

    Killing anyone in the name of religion is pure cowardice! They are ignorant, arrogant, unintelligent dummies that cannot communicate without firepower – that says it all ! All Muslims should rally round to find these killers if they disagree with the killing of these journalists – Freedom of speech is what all countries allow Muslims even allowed to protest against the laws in the country they live in So what gives these morons the idea that they are in the right to protest with killing innocent people except for the fact that they have proved they are cowards – They cannot fight in a boxing ring with rules if they did they would not stand a chance to avenge their prophet – cowards show your face to the world if you really believe in what you are doing is right!

  49. diumbledoresarmy says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 3:40 pm

    For those long-time regulars at jihadwatch who remember a brillliant guy called “Hugh Fitzgerald” (no idea what his real name is) who used to contribute article to the main page and also posted in the Comments forum.

    *Here* is Hugh’s initial reaction to the mass-murderous mohammmedan ghazwa assault on Charlie Hebdo in Paris.

    http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/58463

    Wednesday, 7 January 2015
    The Horrible Dangerous Meretricious Slaves Of Allah We’ve Allowed In

    If you’ve joined this forum after Hugh left to set up his own counterjihad effort (New English Review), and have never seen what he was capable of – I urge you to click on that link, and read.

    And then pass it on.

  50. Jerry says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 3:45 pm

    Two decades before Israel became a state sixty seven Jews were massacred by Muslims in Hebron and there was not one square inch of Muslim Land forcibly occupied occupied by the Jews and not one cartoonist amongst them

    There were no Yazidi cartoons of Mohammad

    There were not Assyrian or Caldean Christian cartoons of Mohammad.

    None of the thousands of northern Nigerian Christians massacred by Muslims have ever drawn any cartoons of Mohammad.

    None of the hundreds of Nigerian Christian girls kidnapped by Moslims to be held as sex slaves have ever drawn cartoons of Mohammad.

    We combat Nazi propaganda by banning and restricting the proliferation of Hitler’s Mein Kampf.

    We ought to act likewise against the dissemination and possession Mohammad’s Koran and Hadith.

    • David says

      Jan 7, 2015 at 7:29 pm

      I’d like to make the distinction between Muslims by name and true Muslims. The entire Muslim population didn’t rise up but just a select few fanatics who cannot be said to be representative of Islam. They are a tiny minority.

      All religions have believers in name only who are basically hypocrites and true believers. True believers do not involve themselves in these violent acts of murder and aggression. Otherwise we would be seeing over 1.5 billion Muslims murdering and we don’t. We only see a very tiny percentage of that 1.5 billion involved in murder because they are not true Muslims but murderers.

      • Angemon says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 7:38 pm

        Well, it seems that David is on a rampage today – before he went on about how terrorists were just after attention, now he’s trying to convince us that the muslims acting according to their theology are “bad” muslims.

        OK, I’ll bite: David, could you provide evidence for your claim?

        • David says

          Jan 7, 2015 at 7:50 pm

          There are over 1.5 billion Muslims and we don’t see 1 billion murders.

          The Mafia and Inquistion were just as bad as ISIS if not worse with beheadings and burning at the stake added for good measure.

          Not to mention Hitler. The guy responsible for the death of millions of Jews? The thing is we got rid of them and we moved on and Germany still exists. We didn’t need to expel all Germans from the planet did we? And they were a bad, bad mob!!!

          There have been ‘terrorists’ far worse than today that have committed far worse atrocities. As I said, if all Muslims were terrorists then we would be seeing millions of murders all over the place but we are not. The majority are peace loving people who understand their religion is to be used for good not evil and they are the ones, the 1.5 billion who are living peacefully beside you and I and who are innocent and do not deserve to be stigmatised for what some evil extremists have done.

          I’m against all forms of violence. Violence is a crime not a religion or Faith.

          I’m a Baha’i. In Iran we are terribly persecuted but only by fanatics. The majority of Muslims love and respect us and want our freedom. It is only a handful of crazed fanatics who are doing this but they have power. If anyone Baha’is have an axe to grind against Muslims but we are not stupid. We know that Islam and the Quran is not to blame but fanaticism and we very much love Muslims and see them as equals.

        • Angemon says

          Jan 8, 2015 at 7:04 am

          David posted:

          “There are over 1.5 billion Muslims and we don’t see 1 billion murders.”

          Appeal to numbers is a logical fallacy – just because ever muslim in the planet (including the women, children and toddlers, since you’re including ALL of them) isn’t out there killing non-muslims doesn’t mean that their holy texts don’t call for it.

          Also, don’t most muslims live in muslim-majority countries?

          “The Mafia and Inquistion were just as bad as ISIS if not worse with beheadings and burning at the stake added for good measure.”

          Ah, the tu-quoque fallacy! The Mafia doesn’t aspire to be anything more than a criminal organization, no mafioso is going around killing people while shouting “Corleone is Greater!” or suggesting that embracing their lifestyle assures entrance into paradise. As for the Inquisition, an organization who mostly acted independently from the Papacy, even if they were following Christian tenets (which they weren’t), they only had power over Christians, not over other religions.

          “Not to mention Hitler. The guy responsible for the death of millions of Jews? The thing is we got rid of them and we moved on and Germany still exists”

          That’s because after WWII no one in Germany would say “Yes, I am a nazi, and I’m proud of it”. Nazism was discredited, and islam gets the same kind of apologies you’re giving. It’s kinda hard to fight an ideological battle if you keep pretending that the ideology that the other side uses to justify their carnage has nothing to do with their motivations.

          “There have been ‘terrorists’ far worse than today that have committed far worse atrocities.”

          And what does that have to to with islamic terrorism? Should we give muslims a free pass because someone else did something worse?

          “As I said, if all Muslims were terrorists then we would be seeing millions of murders all over the place but we are not.”

          And as I said, appeal to numbers is a logical fallacy.

          “The majority are peace loving people who understand their religion is to be used for good not evil and they are the ones, the 1.5 billion who are living peacefully beside you and I and who are innocent and do not deserve to be stigmatised for what some evil extremists have done.”

          While most may be peace (and we haven’t defined what “peace” means) loving people (or not, according to Pew research) who just want to live their lives, that doesn’t change the writings of islam. If he quran mandates chopping the hand of a thief and a given muslim is horrified at that prospect, it doesn’t make islamic law null and void.

          “I’m a Baha’i. In Iran we are terribly persecuted but only by fanatics. The majority of Muslims love and respect us and want our freedom.”

          Those you call “fanatics” are simply following islamic tenets. Islam says that muhammad has the seal of prophets, i.e. that muhammad was the last prophet and that no one can come after him. What happened to the founder of your faith? What happens to ahmadi muslims in, for example, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia?

          The islamic texts that mandate war against non-muslims are open-ended commandments for all times. Pretending that they don’t exist and relying on muslims who don’t know, understand or act according to them is a naively dangerous thing to do, with possibly catastrophic consequences.

        • Sam Hawkins says

          Jan 7, 2015 at 8:46 pm

          David is a Muslim himself so naturally he defends Muslims. The Bahai religion is a heterodox offshoot from Shia Islam, forced to split off because its founder declared himself a prophet but in Islam there can be no prophets after Muhammad.

          The syncretistic, “we are the world” salad bowl of Bahai came much later. It is still only a thin veneer on a massively Muslim structure.

          If, for some reason, the Iranian theocracy were to allow Bahai back into the fold of Shia Islam, the Bahai would jump at the chance.

      • Myxlplik says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 8:05 pm

        David,

        Sadly enough murdering people who criticize Mohammed is entirely in line with the behavior of the Prophet of Islam. It’s difficult to distance Islam, and by association Muslims from the tradition of their most esteemed and emulated man, their Prophet.

        A list of the attrocities from the Hadith

        http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2006/03/muhammads_dead_poets_society.html

      • Wellington says

        Jan 7, 2015 at 10:12 pm

        A tiny minority you say, David? Well, perhaps you could explain the Pew Research poll taken in Egypt in 2010 where over 80% of those polled said that an adulteress should be stoned to death and a Muslim who converts to another religion should be killed. Or perhaps you could explain why not a single school of Islamic theology to the present day, Sunni or Shiite, for instance the Hanafi, Hanbali, Shafi and Maliki schools of Sunni Islam, has repudiated the Islamic doctrine that an apostate from Islam should be killed. And how about the over 24,000 documented Islamic terrorist attacks worldwide just since 9/11, which doesn’t even take into account the tens of thousands ATTEMPTED Islamic terrorist attacks since 9/11 that have been thwarted by security and intelligence agencies around the earth? And what about all those kissy-face/huggy-bear passages in the Koran like Sura 8:39 which calls for war to be waged “until all religion is with Allah” or Sura 9:5 which directs that Muslims should “slay the idolater wherever you find him?” Perhaps too you could address the passage from the Bukhari Hadith (4.52.220) where Mohammed says, “I have been made victorious with terror.”

        You see, David, folks are finding out more and more about Islam with each passing year and what they’re finding out they don’t like. Nor should they. Islam was founded by a psychopath who was also a pedophile and a narcissist, and it is the one major faith which is an eternal enemy of liberty and equality under the law. It is also the only religion which calls for war to be made upon the unbeliever. In short, Islam sucks. It really, really sucks.

        Your turn should you care to respond, but don’t try any rank sentimentalism with me, nor taqiyya, nor kitman, nor any silly tu quoque reasoning. Go ahead. Give it a shot.

        • David says

          Jan 8, 2015 at 12:10 am

          Polls and Hadiths? Hadiths are not authoritative nor authenticated. In other words – heresay. Unreliable as a source of information. Hadiths are ‘attributed to Muhammad’ not endorsed or authorised by Him. Polls? Well the polls at the time of Hitler gave him a resounding endorsement. Absolutely nonsensical to try and use polls as a standard for truth. Now for the Quran. Quoting the Quran out of context especially historical context without knowing what was being referred to is the usual method haters of Islam use to try and discredit Islam but ‘little knowledge is dangerous’ and very misleading.

          It’s essential to understand the context in which Words of the Quran have been used, to whom, when and why. The Quran is a historical document about real events in the time of Muhammad.

          Prophet Muhammad appeared to a barbaric race. Also… There were no laws, no constitutions, no jails or prisons, no courts of laws or judges and juries so murderers/rapists/looters not stopped became serial offenders. Muhammad devised laws to protect victims of oppression for a period that had no prisons. The laws at that time had to be harsh for an uncivilised people to make them civilised and the Quran was only meant for that period until a new Prophet would arise with new laws for our modern age which is Baha’u’llah. Because they cling to their ancient laws and refuse to accept the new age they are now a cause of ills in the world. Islam once a panacea is now an aggravation causing problems as it was not meant for a nuclear age. Baha’u’llah annulled the law of Jihad but Muslims refuse to accept His Authority even though He was promised in the Quran.

          Stoning and laws like that were not meant for our age but since Muslims have not accepted Baha’u’llah’s Teachings yet they are a big problem for us trying to enforce laws meant for a barbaric age.

          The west on the other hand, although mostly unaware of Baha’u’llah’s laws and Teachings have accepted almost all of them unconsciously. The answer to the Muslim problem lies in the Muslims accepting that the age of the Quran is over but the problem is they are desperately trying to bring back the past. Baha’u’llah’s teachings are here to stay and revolve around the oneness humankind, the elimination of wars and prejudice and many many more.

          Islam was intended to start the process of nation building throughout the world. Now nation building has come to an end and the time for the unity of the world has come. Baha’u’llah said the time has come for a World Commonwealth to be formed with unity in diversity it’s watchword. Islam was a step towards our maturity. Now the next step in our evolution is to accept each other as members of one human family. Islam took us from a savage tribe situation to nationhood but that’s it. Now a new Prophet with a New Blueprint for a world civilisation has appeared and I tell you it’s absolutely mind blowing.

        • Angemon says

          Jan 8, 2015 at 7:22 am

          David posted:

          “Hadiths are not authoritative nor authenticated. In other words – heresay. Unreliable as a source of information. Hadiths are ‘attributed to Muhammad’ not endorsed or authorised by Him.”

          That may be so to you as a baha’i, but not, for example, to sunni muslims, who are what? 80-90% of muslims worldwide. They established chains of transmission and have collections of varying degree of authenticity, including two considered “authentic”.

          “Now for the Quran. Quoting the Quran out of context especially historical context without knowing what was being referred to is the usual method haters of Islam use to try and discredit Islam but ‘little knowledge is dangerous’ and very misleading.

          It’s essential to understand the context in which Words of the Quran have been used, to whom, when and why.”

          And how do you suppose to do that if you rule out the ahadith?

          “The Quran is a historical document about real events in the time of Muhammad.”

          No, the quran is the unchangeable, unaltered word of allah that it’s said to have always existed alongside allah and its throne.

          “Prophet Muhammad appeared to a barbaric race. Also… There were no laws, no constitutions, no jails or prisons, no courts of laws or judges and juries so murderers/rapists/looters not stopped became serial offenders.”

          While arabs could be barbaric, they had their sets of laws.

          “Muhammad devised laws to protect victims of oppression for a period that had no prisons. The laws at that time had to be harsh for an uncivilised people to make them civilised and the Quran was only meant for that period until a new Prophet would arise with new laws for our modern age which is Baha’u’llah.”

          According to Baha’u’llah, not according to orthodox islam. As far as orthodox sunni are concerned, muhammad was the last prophet.

          “Stoning and laws like that were not meant for our age”

          The quran says to chop the hands of thieves. Muhammad did so. As far as orthodox muslims care, that’s supposed to be the law for all eternity.

          “The answer to the Muslim problem lies in the Muslims accepting that the age of the Quran is over but the problem is they are desperately trying to bring back the past.”

          And we hit the same wall: islamic orthodoxy states that muhammad is the last prophet and that the quran is the eternal word of allah valid for all times, and what you just said would warrant you the death penalty under islamic law.

        • Wellington says

          Jan 8, 2015 at 12:35 pm

          Polls are often quite valid, David, hundreds of millions of Muslims look upon the Hadiths as reliable and to hell with bullshit comments like yours that you have to take the Koran “in context.” As for your own beliefs, they’re pie-in-the sky nonsense. Meanwhile, Muslims aplenty are killing or maiming people around the world in the name of Islam and they’re invoking the Koran, ahadith and the Sira as justification for their actions (e.g., ISIS beheading people and citing Sura 47:4). Whatever’s the matter with the world because of Islam, it’s nothing your proposals will fix at all. In short, all that you have written is a waste.

  51. Katnis says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 5:20 pm

    Je suis Charlie Hebdo.

  52. Angemon says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 5:56 pm

    There’s an anti-terror raid going on in Reims.

  53. PGW says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 7:26 pm

    My grandfather came to America from France. He learned English, went to school and became a success. He would be rolling over in his grave at what has happened to France. Remember, the French helped us win the American Revolution. Horrible what has happened to that country.

  54. Angemon says

    Jan 7, 2015 at 7:50 pm

    It seems they got the bastards:

    https://twitter.com/NBCNightlyNews/status/552971655711305729

    BREAKING: 1 suspect in the Paris attack has been killed and the remaining 2 are in custody, senior U.S. officials say – @PeteWilliamsNBC

  55. David says

    Jan 8, 2015 at 12:45 am

    I’m a Baha’i not a Muslim. Just like Christianity is not a Jewish religion neither is the Baha’i Faith a Muslim offshoot. It is an independent World Religion with its own Prophet, Holy Book, Calendar and Administration.

    We accept all Prophets and Messengers. We believe in Buddha, Krishna, Moses, Christ, Zoroaster, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah as all sent by the same God at different periods in history to educate and guide us.

    I defend Buddha and all these other prophets not just Muhammad.

    All Holy Books have foretold the future coming of a promised one who would unite humanity. We believe that to be Baha’u’llah. The coming of Baha’u’llah was mentioned in the Quran, Bible, Buddhist Scruptures, Hindu Scriptures so there is a connection with all Faiths for us Baha’is. A promise people hoped and waited for centuries and have given up on has happened but most can’t fathom that it could ever come true and have lost hope completely and wander not knowing what to believe anymore.

  56. David says

    Jan 8, 2015 at 4:53 am

    Why are these people allowed to have guns? And rocket launchers? There is no need for guns and weapons to be anybody’s hands except law enforcement.

    Border control and gun smuggling needs to be tightened if rocket launchers are making it in the country but with the shootings happening in Paris one wonders if freedom to own a firearm should be a freedom.

    at least people could stand a better chance to defend themselves if guns were not used.

    • Angemon says

      Jan 8, 2015 at 7:30 am

      David posted:

      “Why are these people allowed to have guns? And rocket launchers?”

      “Allowed”? Who said they were “allowed” to?

      “Border control and gun smuggling needs to be tightened if rocket launchers are making it in the country but with the shootings happening in Paris one wonders if freedom to own a firearm should be a freedom.”

      Yes. Yes, it should.

      “at least people could stand a better chance to defend themselves if guns were not used.”

      Could they? You don’t need a gun to attack anyone. You can use a knife, a box cutter, a screwdriver, a syringe full of bleach, your own hands… Maybe in a perfect world guns wouldn’t be necessary, but as it stands now restricting access to guns would do more bad than good. And there’s one important thing to keep in mind: criminals aren’t called criminals for following the rule of law.

  57. baw says

    Jan 8, 2015 at 6:24 am

    David: Allowed? Who’s allowing them? Criminals illegally obtain weapons; there’s no infallible way to stop that. If the terrorists’ aim was really to “avenge Muhammad”, it could be surmised that it’s taken them just over 3 years (from publication of the Muhammad cartoon) to plan and obtain weapons for the attack.

  58. Dennis LaPrairie says

    Jan 8, 2015 at 6:30 am

    If people in the building had guns they could have shot back. The old saying outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns. I doubt the shooters got those guns legally.

  59. Susan says

    Jan 8, 2015 at 7:31 am

    “Religion” is a personal thought .. otherwise neither would exist. Thought cannot be forced.
    My thought … Why wear Western clothes, drive Western cars and live in Western houses if the very folk who built them are free thinkers? Surely, stay away from such things, they are not imposed. Some people want their cake and eat it. This country would not run on having to stop and pray every day. Women here are out working too. Why come here to have your babies if it is so good, right and holy elsewhere. IF WE ARE SUCH SHITTY FREE THINKERS STAY AWAY FROM US …OR REMEMBER .. how we managed to build this lot … from centuries of FREE THOUGHT and CHOICE.

  60. David says

    Jan 8, 2015 at 8:57 am

    Muslims misinterpret their Quran. A Prophet strictly speaking is one who foretells. The seal of the prophets indicates that with Muhammad the age of prophesying is over and the promises will be fulfilled when the next Messenger comes.

    We believe that to be Baha’u’llah who has brought teachings and a blue print for a spiritual world civilisation where universal brotherhood will flourish and all people accept the earth as one home and all religions and nations unite as one. Hatred between races and religions will cease.

    Not Utopia but reality.

    • Wellington says

      Jan 8, 2015 at 12:38 pm

      Rubbish, David. Pure rubbish. Ain’t gonna happen. Guaranteed.

      • David says

        Jan 8, 2015 at 6:41 pm

        I believe there’s enough good people in the world to make it happen. So a few fanatical terrorists cause people to lose hope in humanity’s goodness? What a cop out. What negativeness!

        • Wellington says

          Jan 8, 2015 at 6:55 pm

          You live in a dream world, David, and those who disagree with you are consigned to being too negative or just copping out. Huh-uh. Make a bet with you. Here it is: What you believe in will NEVER HAPPEN.

          I think you’re a fool, David. I also think you gloss over Islamic evil and will not address it directly as the greatest existential threat in our time. But, quite frankly, I will not expect any reasoned post from you, now or ever. You live in a bubble and you even make excuses for Islamic evil (e.g., reading the Koran “out of context”). You’re of no use to anyone who really wants to deal with how malevolent the whole damn Islamic faith is. In short, you’re a fool. To put it even more bluntly, you’re a waste of space.

    • Champ says

      Jan 8, 2015 at 4:50 pm

      David, your lies are not welcome here, or anywhere, for that matter.

      • David says

        Jan 8, 2015 at 7:55 pm

        I understand fully where people are coming from and agree that religion all must be beneficial to man otherwise it’s of no use. This is what we say about such situations….

        If religion proves to be the source of hatred, enmity and contention, if it becomes the cause of warfare and strife and influences men to kill each other, its absence is preferable. For that which is productive of hatred amongst the people is rejected by God, and that which establishes fellowship is beloved and sanctioned by Him. Religion and divine teachings are like unto a remedy. A remedy must produce the condition of health. If it occasions sickness, it is wiser and better to have no remedy whatever. This is the significance of the statement that if religion becomes the cause of warfare and bloodshed, irreligion and the absence of religion are preferable among mankind.

        • Wellington says

          Jan 8, 2015 at 9:05 pm

          You’ve said nothing. Once again, you are no help whatsoever. Indeed, you are a hindrance because of your never ceasing babble which, I have no doubt, you consider evidence of sapience.

          Go away. Whatever’s wrong with the world it’s nothing your kind can fix.

  61. john says

    Jan 8, 2015 at 3:00 pm

    Get rid of stinking religion, guns and religion has killed more people than I guess time. One more thing if your god is all powerfull than you don’t and I mean don’t have to kill for him, unless hes a infant . I mean killing in the name of any god is just ffffddd up.

    • Petrus says

      Jan 8, 2015 at 7:01 pm

      John … so under which religion did Stalin kill more than 40 million people? atheism? and Mao Zedong another atheist outdoing even Stalin with 60 million plus of his own people? Are you an atheist? if so, I fail to see how you can you make a moral judgement call, you have no basis to make moral judgement calls, it is only the survival of the fittest. in the evolutionary world of the atheist.

      • Colc says

        Jan 8, 2015 at 8:59 pm

        Good one, if there is no morality, and there wouldn’t be, if we just evolved, then an atheist can’t make a judgment call.

    • Colc says

      Jan 8, 2015 at 8:56 pm

      I agree that God doesn’t need anyone’s help, and I don’t believe God is behind any of this killing. When it is God behind the killing, there will be no doubt that it is Him.

    • Wellington says

      Jan 8, 2015 at 9:12 pm

      “Stinking religion?” Well, that’s certainly a sophisticated opening to an enlightened discussion of the role of religion in man’s history. BTW, and just out of curiosity, how do you deal with, say, Gregorian Chant, Romanesque and Gothic architecture, Thomas Aquinas’ Summa Theologica and, while we’re at it, the Sistine Chapel and the Pieta?

      Go ahead, john. Your turn. Most interested.

  62. John says

    Jan 9, 2015 at 1:35 pm

    Well being another John, I would agree with him. Religion has no place in our free thinking world. It may have helped in the past with its racist, sexist and bigoted ideas, but leave it out. It’s like believing in Santa. It’s great as a child, it keeps you in your place and adds sum fantasy to your life. But you can’t believe in man made fantasies that aren’t as well writen as Superman and Dennis the Mennace. Just imagine what art and culture could have developed into years ago without the narrow minded stories from the dark ages and beyond. Get a life, enjoy the real world.

    • David says

      Jan 9, 2015 at 6:32 pm

      You’re right. If religion does not unite hearts and promote peace but instead becomes a source of hate and bloodshed then it’s better to be without it. Child sexual abuse is another evil committed by countless priests trusted by society.

  63. David says

    Jan 9, 2015 at 7:04 pm

    O people of the earth!

    The first Glad-Tidings which the Mother Book hath, in this Most Great Revelation, imparted unto all the peoples of the world is that the law of holy war hath been blotted out from the Book.

    Baha’u’llah (Glad Tidings)

    Muslims have not accepted Baha’u’llah Who was prophesied in their Quran. Holy war is no longer an official Muslim law. Muslims are following themselves not God or Allah.
    This law change was revealed over 100 years ago by God.

    Muslims refusing to accept Baha’u’llah as promised has led us to the current dilemma. For had they accepted His Laws and Teachings Holy War would cease to exist.

    Again, over a 100 years ago priesthood was abolished.

    “From two ranks amongst men power hath been seized: kings and ecclesiastics.”

    Priest and clergy no,longer have any spiritual authority. They are self appointed and blindly followed not sanctioned at all by God.

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