Here is yet another indication of the fact that the killers of the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists, not their victims, enjoy significant support among Muslims in Paris. What are French authorities doing about that? Are they demanding that Muslim leaders in France begin to institute programs in mosques and Islamic schools teaching against the idea that blasphemy must be punished with death? Or are they content to tell each other that this has nothing to do with Islam and leave it at that?
“Charlie Hebdo memorial vandalised in Paris four times in two weeks,” by David Chazan, the Telegraph, February 22, 2015 (thanks to Pamela Geller):
A shrine in memory of the 17 people killed in attacks by three Islamist gunmen in Paris last month has been vandalised, it emerged on Sunday.
It is the fourth time the makeshift memorial, consisting of flowers, notes and photographs, has been damaged in just two weeks, said Sabrina Deliry, head of a group called “17 Never Again”, which created the shrine in Place de la République in central Paris.
“We’re sickened and disgusted,” Ms Deliry said after finding the flowers and messages of peace kicked, torn and scattered.
“It’s not the wind or the rain that did it as even objects and messages that were covered have been vandalised,” she said.
“When this happened before, we repaired the damage without saying anything, but this is too much.”
Rémy Vialeret, another member of the group, which cleans the shrine regularly, lights candles there and covers handwritten messages in plastic, said previous attacks had caused less damage.
“This time, they wrecked everything,” Mr Vialeret said, explaining that wreaths, messages and drawings had been ripped up. He said the group had filed a police complaint.
The shrine became a place for Parisians and visitors to remember and mourn the dead. Passers-by often stop and read the notes.
It was set up in the days following the shootings at the office of the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo and a Kosher supermarket.
A policewoman was also killed in the street near a Jewish school.
JamesonRocks says
No doubt the moozies will blame Jews and Christians for the vandalism. I can just hear it now, “They are doing this to promote hatred toward muslims…”
Angemon says
Oh, for f***’s sake, how hard is it for the Gendarmerie to have someone keeping watch over the memorial?
katnis says
Right. Cameras? Appointed police guards? Volunteer security? Something.
Though that probably misses the point in the first place. People loved and miss the people who died at Charlie Hebdo. Destroying a memorial is sick and insensitive. Hope the vandals are caught and sent on a plane to Syria.
Alissa says
“Hope the vandals are caught and sent on a plane to Syria.” Geeze all the way to Syria? Why bother? why waste the fuel? How about send on a “plane that makes a quick deposit over the ocean and then turns back to land.” Could be a quick and easy way to rid ourselves of a lot of vermin.
jayell says
“Destroying a memorial is sick and insensitive.” Two hallmarks Islam and muslims, but what should you expect from an followers of an ideology founded by a murdering criminal? They effectively have no moral compass and their arrogant bigotry would render anyone else’s sensibilities irrelevant as far as they are concerned. But not their own, you notice!
M S case says
This didn’t have to be a memorial for the Charlie Hebdo killings. Anything that upsets the muslims brings forth protest, marches destruction killing raping kidnapping and anything else you can name…That’s just islam but there are so many officials out there saying no THIS IS NOT ISLAM…WHAT A WORLD WE HAVE ALLOWED TO EMERGE..
Salah says
@ Angemon
“Oh, for f***’s sake, how hard is it for the Gendarmerie to have someone keeping watch over the memorial?”
It’s hard, Angemon. They can’t keep an eye on the memorial if they’re unarmed and/or unwilling to use their guns.
Laws must change and adapt. Jihadist thugs must be dealt with with FORCE, full lethal force, even if vandalizing memorials is their only crime.
Shoot to kill, problem solved.
Who’s stopping us? our PC leaders and our so-called human rights groups (i.e. the enemy within.)
mortimer says
Salah is right! The cops would need high powered assault rifles to shoot back. That’s the problem now all over France.
There are over 6 million Muslims in France with perhaps 1,000 or 2,000 terrorists among them.
dumbledoresarmy says
And/ or set a boobytrap, suitably designed so as to be “tripped” by vandalism rather than by someone innocently laying a bouquet and a card.
Imagine what happens when the aspiring jihadi, upon wading in to stomp on and kick over bouquets and rip cards to shreds, finds himself getting a faceful of liquidised pig poop. (All of this, of course, including his horrified expression as he cops the stinky bath, to be immortalised by concealed cameras, footage to be spread far and wide on youtube, etc, to the accompaniment of a soundtrack of mocking laughter).
Georg says
And the vandal gets a complementary portrait on the cover of Charlie Hebdo!
Shmooviyet says
Yet Obama spoke of the ‘historic grievances’ suffered by… the Muslim world.
Georg says
Yea, they’re “worried and afraid”
It’s just heart breaking.
gravenimage says
Among those “historical grievances” suffered by Muslims, of course, is having “filthy Infidels” openly mourn the victims of Islam, and hence—no matter how obliquely—criticize Muslim savagery.
Under Shari’ah, dhimmis are not allowed to do this.
How can pious Muslims be expected to bear such “provocation”?
mortimer says
Gravenimage wrote: “How can pious Muslims be expected to bear such “provocation”?
Answer: they have a duty to punish any blasphemy against Mohammed or Islam or Muslims. The uppity kafirs must be humiliated and the jihadists will not rest in France until they have ‘made a great slaughter’.
gravenimage says
That’s right, Mortimer.
And one of the strictures of the Pact of Umar, which has regulated oppression of dhimmis since the days of the “Rightly Guided Caliphs”, is that Infidels must vow: “we shall not raise our voices when following our dead”.
And that’s what this is doing, figuratively—we are raising our voices in lamentation and remembrance. And how much more Haram is this, since these dead were killed by pious Muslims for having “insulted” the “Prophet”?
Erik says
This might be a good time for Atheists and Muslims to put aside their differences. These two idealologies are not compatible. Atheists can stop provoking the Muslims, that in itself may reduce the number of attacks from crazy people using Islam as a means of murdering people. Try a truce, it may work wonders in reducing the number of killings. .
Georg says
I’m an atheist, and I resent your implying drawing Muhammad justifies a terrorist response. Whether atheist or otherwise, I don’t think most are interested in your ‘truce’ which effectively sanctions Islamic blasphemy law. We will never submit, and we demand these fanatical sociopaths change– NOT WE! I’ve had enough Muslim and leftist victim-bashing.
And the tearing down of this monument, repeatedly, of course points to the most salient aspect of the Muslim presence in Europe of all: shamelessness. To what extent it’s religious versis ethnic I’m not exactly sure, but this afront of a zero-sum culture war by a group/s who nobody forced to come or keeps from leaving is despicable, and you’d do well to admit as much.
I hope with these acts they’ve finally “killed the goose that laid the golden egg” as Pat Condell puts it. The upcoming elections and laws will be in response to Muslim and not European behavior.
Erik says
See, you are proving why the two ideologies don’t work. You will never cease. And neither will they. It’s like both of you have got to get in the last word or action.
What really sucks is that those cartoons also got others killed that had nothing to do with the cartoon like the people killed in the Jewish markets.
Georg says
Let’s say someone doesn’t like you wearing pants. If you wear pants, they’ll beat your ass. Who knows, maybe shoot you up in broad daylight. Should you stop wearing pants? Why or why not?
What if they don’t like you practicing Christianity or Yazidism?
What if they don’t like dogs?
What if you lived in a country that has fought tooth and nail for freedom of speech and distinguishes itself as such globally? What if life in said country was remarkably better than most other places and people flocked there? Would you be quick to change this place?
What if there were examples of places where people censored themselves to accommodate a religious text and it turned out life there is relatively miserable? Would you be quick to imitate it?
Erik says
Oh yeah, I never said nor implied that there was any justification in murder, let alone the Charlie Hebdo murders. What I am calling out is what will very likely happen. There is a bug difference. Also I am not interested in any cartoon that pokes fun at religion. I am not going to say if one does that they have it coming to them, but, I really people ought to think carefully before setting off crazy people using religion in name to justify murder.
So far as religion goes, most clerics condemn these acts.
Mo says
@ Erik
Take your victim blaming elsewhere. It makes me sick.
“See, you are proving why the two ideologies don’t work. You will never cease.”
Notice how you blame an atheist FIRST – when it’s not atheists going around slaughtering Muslims around the world.
“And neither will they.”
Do you know WHY they won’t ever stop? Of course you don’t. You’ve never read the Koran. Nor will you. You are willfully ignorant. That’s why you’re making these vile comparisons and doing the victim blaming routine. It’s sickening to witness over and over and over, whenever this issue comes up.
” It’s like both of you have got to get in the last word or action.”
Atheists are not going around slaughtering Muslims around the world
What is it about that simple, blatant fact that is so hard for you to grasp?
“What really sucks is that those cartoons also got others killed…”
Cartoons didn’t “get anyone killed”. MUSLIMS KILLED PEOPLE over cartoons. Get that through your head already.
Erik says
Who published the cartoons Mo? Why? This is simple cause and effect. I sure don’t want to die at the hands of some crazy person’s reaction to cartoons that they deem offensive.
Mo says
@ Erik
“Who published the cartoons Mo? Why? This is simple cause and effect.”
BULL! Christians are insulted on a DAILY basis on TV shows, on the news, in print – 24/7. Can you show me where they are murdering people over it?
Jews are insulted and blamed DAILY for the attacks against them by Muslims. Can you show me where they are murdering people over it?
Answer me.
“I sure don’t want to die at the hands of some crazy person’s reaction to cartoons that they deem offensive.”
Well, looks like you’re going to have to hide under your bed because a “crazy person” can “deem” ANYTHING offensive!
We’re not talking about crazy people here are we? We are talking about MUSLIMS following the commands of their ideology and the example of their warlord, child rapist prophet.
How about addressing THAT? But you know you can’t. Why? Because you know you’ve never read the Koran or anything on the life of Mohammad. Right? And you won’t read it, either.
It’s easier to blame the victims. Right?
Angemon says
Erik posted:
“I sure don’t want to die at the hands of some crazy person’s reaction to cartoons that they deem offensive.”
Then go live as an hermit someplace far away.
Western Canadian says
To Erik
The only simple thing in this thread, is your sickening examples of intellectual prostitution, and your criminal dishonesty in dealing with the most vicious crime ever committed against humanity. The crime?? islam.
Champ says
Erik,
Mo said it best …
“Take your victim blaming elsewhere. It makes me sick.”
Me, too.
Angemon says
Erik posted:
“What really sucks is that those cartoons also got others killed that had nothing to do with the cartoon like the people killed in the Jewish markets.”
Nope. Those were killed because they were Jewish. And even if they were killed because of the cartoons, the cartoonists aren’t responsible for the murderers’ actions. You might as well blame muhammad – if he hadn’t invented islam, the murderers wouldn’t have killed the staff at CH, or the Jews at the market, or any of the other 280 millions of victims of islamic supremacy since the invention of islam in 7th century arabia.
voegelinian says
Erik says
February 22, 2015 at 9:09 pm
Oh yeah, I never said nor implied that there was any justification in murder, let alone the Charlie Hebdo murders. What I am calling out is what will very likely happen. There is a bug difference.
Yes, there is a “bug difference” — a felicitious typo, seeing as Erik was, in that comment, purveying the “DPHN Meme” (“Don’t Poke the Hornet’s Nest”).
I.e., in the minds of those who sincerely promote this meme (we don’t know if Erik here is sincere or is slyly insinuating various memes and fallacies from the Islamopologist paradigm, but that’s immaterial to my point), they realize — yea, the full horror & catastrophe of Islam is slowly dawning on them (though they continue, in their semi-conscious dread and desperation, to suppress it as much as possible) — that a catastrophic global train wreck is slowly but surely devolving, and Muslims — all Muslims (by hook, outright “extremism”, or crook, stealthy deceit) — are the “diverse” embodiment of that metastasizing catastrophe.
In the context then of this confused psychological welter of Denial coming increasingly under the pressure of their growing, albeit semi-conscious realization, they impulsively feel, and counsel the rest of us, to avoid “provoking” Muslims lest they “radicalize”.
“Yes,” they say, their nervous eyes and clammy palms betraying the desperation they feel but cannot fully admit even to themselves, “that will help manage the problem and keep a lid on things — we mustn’t offend the Muslims and make them angry… surely, if we do that, things will remain relatively normal and we can go about our lives as we were in those halcyon days before September 11, 2001, when the whole world shone under a clear blue sky, and Progress was our oyster…! Now, please, you Islamophobes, for the love of God, stop poking the hornet’s nest!”
Mo says
@ Erik
“This might be a good time for Atheists and Muslims to put aside their differences.”
Oh, yeah? Can you tell me where atheists are going around slaughtering Muslims?
“These two idealologies are not compatible.”
As Andrew Breitbart used to say, so?
“Atheists can stop provoking the Muslims,”
Here we go again. Nobody “provokes” you to murder someone over stupid cartoons. No one. You CHOOSE to do it.
“that in itself may reduce the number of attacks from crazy people using Islam as a means of murdering people. ”
Here we go again!
Can you show me what “crazy people” are “using Islam” as a means of murdering people? Point them out to me. Because all I see are MUSLIMS following the commands of their ideology and the example of their so-called prophet.
You’d know that if you’d bothered to read the Quran or anything about the life of the warlord, child rapist, Mohammad.
Georg says
Erik,
Do you not think your apportionment of blame is offensive? You always begin and end with the cartoonists… Where’s the outrage over the satanists who stands over a group of people shooting their brains all over the floor for drawing something which is only arguably offensive?
Also, we’re not in their milieu, they’re in ours. Unreal.
Erik says
Clearly you don’t read the papers nor tune into the discussions. That was all over media.
Georg, it is an asinine comparison pants VS cartoons. I know that you know the differences.
I do not endorse any religion, nor idealology but, what I cam calling out is behavior.
Georg says
Well, if you truly feel cartoons are to blame for slaughtering Jews in Hyper Casher, we needn’t continue.
Great points, Mo. And this makes me sick, too. I’m done.
Angemon says
Erik posted:
“I do not endorse any religion, nor idealology but, what I cam calling out is behavior.”
Not quite so. You’re endorsing islam when you suggest that it’s atheists that need to change their behaviour – why call out the ones whose beliefs don’t order them to kill people?
Western Canadian says
No, you are NOT ‘calling out’ behavior… you are using a pathetically weak rationalization to excuse vicious and cowardly murder, while falsely claiming to not approve of the murder you are doing such a poor job of excusing.
jay says
Too bad Muslims see atheists as even more sub-human than Jews and Christians. Try the “Islam is rational and equivalent” game again.
gravenimage says
Erik wrote:
This might be a good time for Atheists and Muslims to put aside their differences. These two idealologies are not compatible. Atheists can stop provoking the Muslims, that in itself may reduce the number of attacks from crazy people using Islam as a means of murdering people. Try a truce, it may work wonders in reducing the number of killings.
…………………………………
A “truce”? Atheists are not murdering Muslims.
And what would Atheists have to offer ravening Jihadists, in any case? What pious Muslims most want from Atheists is for them to submit or die.
And Atheists are not the only victims targeted by Muslims. Just recently, Muslims have butchered Jews, Christians, and Buddhists.
More:
See, you are proving why the two ideologies don’t work. You will never cease. And neither will they. It’s like both of you have got to get in the last word or action.
…………………………………
What *witless moral equivalence*. As I noted, Atheists are not murdering Muslims.
He acts as though a civilized Atheist replying to his comments is “getting in the final word” in the same way that Muslims mass-murdering their victims is. What could be more grotesque?
More:
What really sucks is that those cartoons also got others killed that had nothing to do with the cartoon like the people killed in the Jewish markets.
…………………………………
What *utter crap*. Would Erik have us believe that Muslims are only murdering Jews because Atheists drew some cartoons? He might want to ask the Israelis about that…
Also, note that he appears to consider murdering Jews a reasonable reaction to others drawing cartoons. Good God…
More:
Oh yeah, I never said nor implied that there was any justification in murder, let alone the Charlie Hebdo murders. What I am calling out is what will very likely happen. There is a bug difference.
…………………………………
The Nazis murdered their critics, as well. Would you have been as sanguine about that?
More:
Also I am not interested in any cartoon that pokes fun at religion.
…………………………………
*Really*? “Poking fun” is a form of criticism. So are you saying that you do not believe that one may criticize *anything* about religion? What if it is a religion—as, of course, is Islam—that sacralizes pedophilia, rape, piracy, stoning women to death, and murdering those who do not comply?
Do you consider all of this above criticism?
And the idea that is only Atheists who would dare indulge in such criticism is absolute crap. Robert Spencer—himself a devout Christian—is involved in the upcoming Mohammed Cartoon Art Show in Garland, Texas.
More:
So far as religion goes, most clerics condemn these acts.
…………………………………
What, *Muslim* clerics? This is false.
More:
Who published the cartoons Mo? Why? This is simple cause and effect.
…………………………………
Bullsh*t. People criticize Judaism and Christianity and other faiths—and, for that matter, Atheism on a regular basis. Charlie Hebdo certainly has published cartoons critical of other faiths, and they aren’t murdering cartoonists as a result.
And note that Erik is now completely ready to accept Muslims setting the limits of freedom of speech in our own societies. His is willing to consider this “cause and effect”. *Ugh*.
And Anti-Jihadists such as Robert Spencer are under constant death threats for publishing *any* criticism of Islam. Does he condone this, as well?
More:
I sure don’t want to die at the hands of some crazy person’s reaction to cartoons that they deem offensive.
…………………………………
It certainly doesn’t sound as though you are willing to do anything to stop them, either—just to excoriate anyone who dares criticize such barbarism. And these aren’t “crazy people”—such a reaction is enshrined in the texts and tenets of Islam, and the model of the “Prophet”. Muhammed himself had his critics murdered.
More:
Clearly you don’t read the papers nor tune into the discussions. That was all over media.
…………………………………
Most of us here are well versed in this story. We stand with the victims. Not Erik, apparently…
More:
Georg, it is an asinine comparison pants VS cartoons. I know that you know the differences.
I do not endorse any religion, nor idealology but, what I cam calling out is behavior.
…………………………………
Wearing pants is behavior. And this comparison was hardly “asinine”—Muslims can and do murder people for not adhering to Islamic dress, in just the same way they do those who fail to adhere to the other diktats of Islamic law, such as no t daring to criticize the “Prophet”.
What Erik is doing is letting the most vicious thugs decide what we are and are not allowed to do—in this case, their demands that we submit to Shari’ah law, or they will murder us. *Ugh*.
Georg says
I’m too sleepy to thank Graven appropriately for this nuanced and brilliant post… I’ll just say I can sleep easier knowing there are people like him/her.
gravenimage says
Thank you so much, Georg. I’ve been impressed by your counters to Erik’s demands for appeasement and blaming of the victims. In fact, I’ve been impressed by the many comments from staunch Anti-Jihadists here on his bs.
Erik says
Never said anything about submitting to Sharia Law. I stand for a democratic society. However, there are things you can do not to antagonize crazy people, these monsters using religion as a cover. One thing you don’t know is most religious people, including Muslims are peaceful people. Only a few behave like monsters. Then again, so do non religious people. Point is, if you continue to poke a sleeping bear in February, then you are going to get creamed. Be really careful by knowing the capability of psychotic people.
Erik says
Westman, common sense tells you it is not about appeasement, it’s knowing what to print and what not to print. Printing cartoons known to provoke psychotic people is not about appeasement but a act of aggression, a provocation of war where a crazy small group of people will lash back. Only a small percentage of Muslims kill. The rest don’t care who we are.
Angemon says
Erik posted:
“Printing cartoons known to provoke psychotic people is not about appeasement”
But NOT printing cartoons for fearing someone’s reaction is textbook appeasement. That means that violence works: they kill people and, in response, we do what they want us to – we appease them.
If they don’t like any given cartoon then sue the paper. Going out and killing people just goes to show they’re not fit to live in a civilized society, and they won’t be any fitter if the newspaper stops printing cartoons they don’t like.
Mirren10 says
The egregious ‘Erik’ says:
”Never said anything about submitting to Sharia Law. I stand for a democratic society.”
No, you don’t. You stand for nothing but the safety of your own miserable skin. Bugger off, you contribute nothing of value here.
‘Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. ” Benjamin Franklin.
gravenimage says
More from the appalling Erik:
Never said anything about submitting to Sharia Law.
…………………………………….
That is *exactly* what you are doing. Under Sharia it is forbidden to depict the “Prophet”, and forbidden to criticize him or to criticize Islam. And you are saying that we should adhere to these bans, lest Muslims murder us for violating Sharia law.
More:
I stand for a democratic society.
…………………………………….
How can you stand for democratic society if you are supine? The fact is that you are willing to do *nothing* to defend our democratic rights. And you are not just counseling submission, but actually castigating those brave souls who *won’t* submit.
More:
However, there are things you can do not to antagonize crazy people, these monsters using religion as a cover.
…………………………………….
Murderous Jihadists are not “using religion as a cover”. There are strictures *in Islamic law itself* that prevent any criticism of Islam or its “Prophet”. These Muslims are not “crazy”, they are practicing their oppressive faith.
Also, note that Erik never asks why, if this is just about “crazy people”, that there are not an equal number of such crazy people in other faiths? Jew sand Christians and members of other faiths are insulted all the time—why don’t we find crazy Jews and Christians rampaging around murdering people?
More:
One thing you don’t know is most religious people, including Muslims are peaceful people. Only a few behave like monsters. Then again, so do non religious people.
…………………………………….
The fact is that disturbingly large percentages of Muslims in the West believe that Shari’ah law should be imposed here, including blasphemy laws. Even in the United States, often touted as having the most “moderate” Muslim population, *59%* agreed with the imposition of Shari’ah law.
And in Muslim-majority Pakistan, Muslims have been laying wreaths not for the victims of the Charlie Hebdo victims, but *for the killers*.
Moreover, the idea that the percentage of Jihadists is stable is obviously false. Just a little over a dozen years ago, Jihad terror attacks in the West were almost unheard of. Now appeasers such as Erik believe that it should be obvious that we limit our freedom of speech to comply with the Jihadists’ demands.
And what makes Erik think that such appeasement will stop at cartoons? Of course, it will not and has not. Andy criticism of Islam, any resistance to the imposition of Shari’ah law, any refusal to bow to Muslim supremacy also flouts the demands of Islam.
In many parts of the Muslim world, Infidels are suffering for daring to resist forced conversion, or kidnapping and rape, or enslavement, or out-and-out genocide. All we have to do is look at recent stories in Nigeria, Sudan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Iraq, Bangladesh, Iran, Syria, and the Islamic State to see where Muslim demands lead.
More:
Point is, if you continue to poke a sleeping bear in February, then you are going to get creamed. Be really careful by knowing the capability of psychotic people.
…………………………………….
Where to start? Human beings are not bears. Muslims are acting on the diktats of their creed—by those lights, what they are doing is not crazy.
One more point: even his argument about “psychotic people” fails to hold water. The idea that psychotic people are allowed to run loose in the West, threatening and murdering people if their every whim is not obeyed, is utterly false.
More, to Westman:
Westman, common sense tells you it is not about appeasement, it’s knowing what to print and what not to print. Printing cartoons known to provoke psychotic people is not about appeasement but a act of aggression, a provocation of war where a crazy small group of people will lash back. Only a small percentage of Muslims kill. The rest don’t care who we are.
…………………………………….
I showed above that the idea that most Muslims don’t care about Infidels “insulting Islam” could not be more false. This is, in fact, a central tenet of Islam:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/016-insulters-islam.htm
And yet, while trying to falsely assure us that it is only a handful “crazy” people responsible, he believes that our response should be to *censor what we print*. Good God.
Note that he considers daring to say that Islam is violent to be *an act of aggression*—not so the murderous reaction from homicidal Mohammedans.
Which leads to the next question—what does he think the state should do to people who refuse to have their freedom of speech crushed by “crazy people”?
In other words, would he consider it “common sense” for Western authorities to enforce Shari’ah limits on freedom of speech?
gravenimage says
Excellent comments from Westman, Angemon, and Mirren.
Erik says
You are a war monger. Ugh.
Angemon says
Erik posted:
“You are a war monger. Ugh.”
So not wanting to give up our free-speech equals being a “war monger”? Go back to HuffPo, loon.
Western Canadian says
Erik, AKA Abdul, is a lower than average intelligence troll. His pathetic efforts to pretend that islam has not always been, currently is, and will always be, a criminal cult pretending to be a religion or belief system…. 1400 years and over 280 million people murdered by islam, and this moron tried to pretend that islams vicious and cowardly attacks are today in any way different from the same vicious and cowardly attacks form the last 1400 years… He is obviously a muslim, and a less intelligent than average one, at that…..
The mere fact that non-muslims exist, is enough to drive a devout muslim into a homicidal rage, no provocation needed.
gravenimage says
So now we’re “war mongers” if we want to retain our peaceful freedom of speech? Notice he does not consider Muslims war mongers for acting to violently crush our freedoms. “Erik” just keeps revealing himself as worse…
Mo says
@ Erik says
“You are a war monger. Ugh.”
More lies and slander.
Now provide the evidence I requested of you.
mortimer says
Erik wrote: “Try a truce”
You know nothing about Sharia law. A truce is not possible, save as a deception and plan the destruction of atheists.
Erik, you need to learn more about Islam. It is a supremacist and fascist ideology.
dumbledoresarmy says
I’d say “Erik” is actually called “Mohammed”.
His initial post was just a variation on the “submit (to the sharia, to Islam’s rules, to Islam’s demands) and be “safe””.
And that’s all that his subsequent posts amount to.
Erik says
I implied absolutely nothing to that manner. I expressed a mere cause and effect. Too bad you can’t see past your pride. Oh wait, you cannot be told, but rather stew because there were consequences for getting off on your jollies.
Angemon says
Erik posted:
“I implied absolutely nothing to that manner. I expressed a mere cause and effect.”
Huh, you do know that anyone can read what you posted, right? We can see you saying to stop publishing cartoons about muslims or else.
Erik says
I don’t wish to be harsh but you don’t listen. Remember in your HS science classes? Cause…effect. This is applied with crazy bad azz sickos. Do you ever see a victim trying to antagonize a bully? No of course not. Why, because they know what is good for them. Some people are not meant to be teased. They are not.
Angemon says
Erik posted:
“Do you ever see a victim trying to antagonize a bully? No of course not. Why, because they know what is good for them.”
So, basically, we should just play the role of the victim and let the bullies bully on because any reaction to their bullying is “teasing them”. I think not.
Mirren10 says
The repulsive ‘Erik’, again:
” Do you ever see a victim trying to antagonize a bully? No of course not. Why, because they know what is good for them. Some people are not meant to be teased. They are not.”
Classic mohammedan threat tactics. ” … because they **know what is good for them** (my emphasis: Mirren).
Bugger off, mohammedan.
gravenimage says
The increasingly repulsive “Erik” wrote:
I don’t wish to be harsh but you don’t listen. Remember in your HS science classes? Cause…effect. This is applied with crazy bad azz sickos. Do you ever see a victim trying to antagonize a bully? No of course not. Why, because they know what is good for them.
…………………………………
And if we “know what is good for us”, we won’t antagonize Muslims.
“Erik” may not have noticed that there is actually a movement in American schools—as well as elsewhere—to tackler the issue of bullying.
Moreover, it has been proven over and over again that if enough of the kids stand up to a bully, that in almost all cases his bullying will stop.
On the other hand, it is simple cause and effect that appeasement of a bully will do nothing but embolden him. This was true of Fascists, this is true of supremacist Muslims.
gravenimage says
And look at “Erik’s” nasty reply to Dumbledore’s Army. Of course he doesn’t think that any ‘filthy Infidel’ should be allowed any pride, and he characterizes our exercise of our hard-won freedom of speech as “getting off on (our) jollies”. *Ugh*.
Legion says
Troll much?
Yaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwnnn
Angemon says
Erik posted:
“This might be a good time for Atheists and Muslims to put aside their differences. These two idealologies are not compatible.”
Huh, if they’re not compatible what do you mean by “put aside their differences”? When two parties put aside their differences they focus on their similarities. And, like you noticed, atheism and islam are incompatible – not because of atheists, mind you.
“Atheists can stop provoking the Muslims, that in itself may reduce the number of attacks from crazy people using Islam as a means of murdering people.”
What you’re saying is that if atheists stop breaking sharia law muslims stop killing atheists. That means that if atheists abide by the islamic religion then muslims wouldn’t kill them. Do you see the critical flaws in your “logic”? Here, let me help you with that.
1 – Atheists don’t willingly abide by religious law.
2 – Atheists are the worst of non-muslims, according to islam – they deny the existence of allah , therefore they’re always targets.
“Try a truce, it may work wonders in reducing the number of killings.”
What do you mean, “truce”? Since when are the atheists at war with islam?
Angemon says
And, of course, Erik’s so-called “truce” or “setting aside of differences” boils down to this: atheists must abide by sharia, or else.
cs says
Erick, are you for real?
I am not at war with islam, they are at war with me, anyone who is unbeliever is a target. Surah 9:29, or if you are not a Christian or a Jew surah 9:05. Go and look for it, I don’t believe in these verses, oh but hell they do.
voegelinian says
Hi, Erik, You must inform us, and the rest of the world, how you managed to invent a time machine to take you back to September 10, 2001 (and along with that, an Amnesia Machine to help you forget the past 15 years)!
gravenimage says
Voeg, I don’t believe that “Erik” has *forgotten* 9/11—I believe the lesson he has taken from it and subsequent Jihad terror attacks is that we should submit to whatever demands Jihad terrorists should make.
Whether he identifies as a dhimmi or with the Jihadists themselves, his conclusion is the same.
jay says
Don’t be so mean, they were surely doing it to express frustration at Israel and Islamphobia.
King says
Very soon , they will start kicking the people’s ass. Very soon a Frenchman will be become a refugee in France.
Matthieu Baudin says
Disgusting squatters, strip them of their citizenship and deport them.
Erik says
All you who replied….I am NOT endorsing religion nor idealology. Hello? Hello? What I am saying is you have to be very careful with cartoons. This draws out crazy people who will at times kill in the name of religion. What part of that do you NOT understand? All killings are sickening. However, some are preventable.
doglicka says
Erik, you are a disgrace. A weak, cowardly disgrace.
Erik says
I’m a disgrace for calling out bad behavior? Yeah just like the prophets of the old testament were a ‘disgrace’ too huh?.
Champ says
I’m a disgrace for calling out bad behavior? Yeah just like the prophets of the old testament were a ‘disgrace’ too huh?.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You’re a disgrace because you’re weak and cowardly and you can’t stand up to thugs, bullies and murderers–like islam and company, and you’re here to instruct others on how to be weak and cowardly like YOU. Yes, your instruction on how to do that **are** disgraceful and sickening, too, pal.
Add to your disgrace you have the nerve to compare yourself to prophets of the old testament? Oh please.
gravenimage says
Yet more from “Erik”:
All you who replied….I am NOT endorsing religion nor idealology. Hello? Hello? What I am saying is you have to be very careful with cartoons.
…………………………………..
“You have to be very careful with cartoons”—right, and novels, histories, opinion, art, music, dress, non-Muslim religion, atheism, marrying for love, standing against rape, slavery, forced marriage, “Honor Killing”, genocide—really, every aspect of Infidel life.
More:
This draws out crazy people who will at times kill in the name of religion. What part of that do you NOT understand? All killings are sickening. However, some are preventable.
…………………………………..
Muslims must not be prevented from murdering us—we must be prevented from “provoking” them. And note his vague reference to “religion”, when only Muslims are doing this.
More, to Doglicka:
I’m a disgrace for calling out bad behavior? Yeah just like the prophets of the old testament were a ‘disgrace’ too huh?.
…………………………………..
The only “bad behavior”, as “Erik” sees it, is Infidels daring to criticize the horrors of Islam. Pretending that the prophets of the old testament wanted to prevent good people from standing against evil is odd indeed.
Or it would be, if we weren’t quite well aware of which people spend the most time ranting about “prophets” enjoining Islamic savagery…
Mirren10 says
If your name’s ‘Erik’, mine’s Fatima. 🙂
Erik says
Hello Fatima. 🙂
harley says
I’m starting to think Erik is not being serious. A person can’t possibly be that stupid and cowardly.
Erik says
Westman, are you a war monger? This kind of thinking only results in war. revenge does nothing but lead to self destruction. And furthermore, where did I say that religion itself kills? No Westman, religion does not kill, but crazy people that do not follow the tenets of religion do. As far as moral equivalence, there are people of all stripes that have murdered. You sound uneducated in world affairs and peace. You want war, at any cost, it’s clear that you do.
Erik says
If that were the case, then wouldn’t it make sense not to draw attention to oneself by publishing cartoons that one knows would incite a riot or casualties?
Angemon says
Erik posted:
“wouldn’t it make sense not to draw attention to oneself by publishing cartoons that one knows would incite a riot or casualties?”
Do you have some sort of device that can look into the future and see which cartoons will incite riots and/or casualties or do you just want people to stop making cartoons about muslims, allah or islam? Because if you were really worried about “extremists” acting up on cartoons then you should have been advocating for banning ALL cartoons, not just cartoons about islam. And you should be following that up with banning any form of speech since what constitutes an insult is many times in the eyes of the beholder.
Anyway, I consider your willingness to throw away my free speech insulting. Stop doing that or else I’ll go out and attack someone. Let’s see how you live up to your own standards
gravenimage says
More and more crap from “Erik”:
Westman, are you a war monger?
………………………………………..
First hysterical calls for appeasement, and then calling a good person who believes that appeasing barbarism is a “warmonger”. This is exactly what happened in the lead up to WWII. History does repeat itself, if we let it.
More:
No Westman, religion does not kill, but crazy people that do not follow the tenets of religion do.
………………………………………..
Numerous posters, including myself, have noted that murderous Jihadists are very much following the tenets of their creed when they murder others for questioning it. “Erik” has chosen to ignore this, and hopes readers here will not notice.
More:
As far as moral equivalence, there are people of all stripes that have murdered.
………………………………………..
Is “Erik” suggesting that we stop publishing altogether, and not voice any opinions? Of course not—were that true, he would not be posting here himself.
Instead, he is demanding that no one “insult” *Islam*. His false moral equivalence does not even stand up to his own bs.
More:
You sound uneducated in world affairs and peace. You want war, at any cost, it’s clear that you do.
………………………………………..
What crap. What did the Christians and Yezidis of the Islamic State, or the Buddhists of Thailand, or the Christians and animists of Nigeria, or the Hindus and Sikhs and Christians of Pakistan do to bring on “war”? Nothing—and yet they are being kidnapped, raped, enslaved, and murdered.
Notice that he once again has *no* criticism for the violent Muslims who are *already* waging war against us—just of the good Infidels who dare resist it, no matter how peacefully.
More:
If that were the case, then wouldn’t it make sense not to draw attention to oneself by publishing cartoons that one knows would incite a riot or casualties?
………………………………………..
Here, “Erik” is saying that we should not “draw attention to ourselves” in *our own nations*—as though Muslims had already taken over, and we were humiliated and abused dhimmis, and where the best we can hope for is that our Muslim overlords might overlook our existence and decide to let us live another day. This makes me physically ill.
Matthieu Baudin says
Yes Erik, Westman is on the ball; also have a look at Irshad Manji, a naturalised Canadian, originally a Ugandan Muslim woman refugee, another person who has tried to lead a moderate Islam in touch with the modern world but like Zuhdi Jasser has to survive constant slurs and death threats.
Erik says
More the reason one would not want to draw attention from crazy bad people to themselves, such as publish inappropriate cartoons. .
Angemon says
Erik posted:
“religion does not kill, but crazy people that do not follow the tenets of religion do.”
Muslims who kill in name of islam are acting upon islamic tenets, not breaking or twisting them. “Fight those who do not believe in allah”, etc.
Erik says
No not al Muslims kill, many want nothing to do with us or any other people for that matter. This is a broad based stereotypical statement. There are Atheists and Christians that kill. Likewise Hindus and Buddhists.
Angemon says
Erik posted:
“No not al Muslims kill, many want nothing to do with us or any other people for that matter.”
Muslims who kill people over cartoons do so because of what islam teaches, not despite of it. Muslims who don’t kill people over cartoons do so despite of what islam teaches (whether they know it or not is another issue), not because of it.
“This is a broad based stereotypical statement.”
Did I say “all muslims kill” or are you using the strawman fallacy (and sucking at it)?
“There are Atheists and Christians that kill. Likewise Hindus and Buddhists.”
I don’t see atheists killing over their religion. Do you? As for Christians, Hindu and Buddhists, the question is the same than with muslims: if they kill someone, are they going by the tenets of their religion or against it. We know that islam mandates muslims to fight those who do not believe in allah. Is there an equivalent open-ended commandment to kill non-believers in Christianity, Buddhism or Hinduism?
Mo says
@ Erik
“No not al Muslims kill,”
Can you show me where Angemon (or anyone else) said “all Muslims kill”?
That’s quite an accusation. Back it up with evidence. You liar. You slanderer. Back it up.
“This is a broad based stereotypical statement. ”
You’re a LIAR. Angemon did not say all Muslims kill.
Either provide the evidence that he/she did so, or apologize for your lies here. Do not ignore me. I’ve about had it with you slanderers.
Who in the blazes do you think you are?
There are Atheists and Christians that kill. Likewise Hindus and Buddhists.
LOL! Here we go with the moral equivalence.
Show me where the Bible (or any atheist, Hindu or Buddhist text, for that matter!) has open ended commands for its followers to kill unbelievers?
When you’re done providing that evidence, then show me where Christians, atheists, Hindus or Buddhists are murdering those who don’t believe as they do, all over the world, on a regular basis, in obedience to those texts.
Show me the evidence for your vile accusations here. Or have the decency to apologize for your lies and slander.
Do not ignore me. As I said, I have had ENOUGH of liar like you.
Champ says
I agree, Mo; and Erik is NOT here for honest discussion, that much is clear. He’s only here to disrupt Jihad Watch.
Mirren10 says
” There are Atheists and Christians that kill. Likewise Hindus and Buddhists.”
Good Lord, you’re as **thick** as two short planks.
No-one ever said that mohammedans were the only human beings that commit murder – all, or most, humans are capable of vicious and violent behaviour, whatever religion they profess, or none. That is, unfortunately, part of the human condition.
What we are discussing, is the number of mohammedans who commit murder **in the name of their foul ‘prophet’ and their foul religion**. The mohammedans who murdered the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists did it, they told us, ”to avenge mohammed”. The mohammedan murderers who murdered the Jews in the deli, did it **because they were Jews**, and their foul koran tells them that Jews are ”apes and pigs”.
When the IS murders other mohammedans, it is because they are of the wrong sect, or insufficiently islamic. When the IS murders Christians, it is because their vile koran orders them to. When the IS murders Western journalists, and hapless aid workers, they do it because they are **infidels**, and the koran tells them that ‘allah’ wants infidels to accept islam, or die, or live as miserable dhimmis, and pay the jizya until they feel subdued.
”No not al Muslims kill …”
No-one ever said they did.
” … many want nothing to do with us or any other people for that matter.”
If they want nothing to do with us, then why are they coming to the West, in their millions ?
In the latest Pew poll for **my** country, the UK, over 48% of mohammedans want to see sharia imposed in the UK. 50% of male mohammedans, and 75% of the females, are not working, but claiming benefits.
You are either a pusillanimous coward, with your bleating about submission, and giving into mohammedan demands, and your sickening suggestions that anyone who stands against sharia and mohammedan supremacists is a ‘war monger’, or you’re a mohammedan in a mask.
Either way, you make me sick and tired. Bugger off and bore the pants off people on some other site. Wanker.
tahliae says
Erik, you’re part of the problem.
Don’t make them angry!
Gay people make them angry, people worshiping anyone or anything other than Allah, artwork, cartoons, music, people drinking alcohol, eating pork, women leaving themselves uncovered, women wearing makeup, non halal food, women being educated, women driving, infidels, Muslims having a slightly different interpretation of the Koran and the list goes on.
I really hope you don’t fall into any of the categories above, if so you’d better repent and convert to Islam now, just make sure you align with correct version of Islam or guess what? You’ll be on that list again.
Piotr says
Like many readers, I am puzzled. I have looked at the Charlie Hebdo cartoons and it is not 100% clear who is being depicted. To me the cartoons depict a middle eastern male. He could be the equivalent of the “everyman” concept. Hardly enough to qualify for protest marches in Pakistan, etc and murder in Paris and elsewhere.
Lia Wissing says
It’s in the genes: some (from large & varied gene pools) build & some (from small degenerate gene pools) destroy
jack says
Erik would gladly pay the jizya to a crazy person. And love to live his life according to the wishes of the most crazy person in order to save lives. Maybe crazy guy would like to marry his 9 year old daughter or else crazy guy kills people over it, no problem for erik. Roll over boy, evil wins when good man stand aside in silence.
Erik says
Got to have the last word? Love taking everything out of context? Where did I say I supported religion or idealologies. Oh wait I didn’t. What I did say is to the effects of causes…cause…post bad cartoons…effects of bad people…casualities. Get that thru your thick skulls. .
Mo says
@ Erik
Where’s your evidence for the vile accusation that Angemon said all Muslims kill?
Where’s the rest of the evidence I requested from you?
Answer me, you slanderer. You liar. Provide your evidence.
Mirren10 says
The ever more repulsive, and stupid, ‘Erik’, again:
” Get that thru your thick skulls. ”
The only person with a thick skull here, is you.
From your first post, you have done nothing but recommend that decent people who believe in free speech, freedom of conscience, and the equality of all people before the law, should censor themselves, and not do or say anything that might offend murderous, supremacist mohammedans , which would lead them to murder us.
Your rationale for this pusillanimous, cowardly, and despicable stance was essentially that if freedom loving people *don’t* censor themselves, and bow down to sharia, any consequent violence, caused by mohammedans, might damage your own precious hide. You have no courage, no principles, and stand for nothing but your own survival. In order to secure this, you are prepared to sell down the river, not only centuries of Western values, but anyone brave and principled enough to stand against mohammedan supremacists.
If you are **not** a mohammedan in a mask, you are a sickening specimen of a human being.
If you *are* a mohammedan, which I think is likely the case, your posts are merely designed to attempt to persuade us that bowing down to sharia is what we should all do, if we know what’s good for us, because ‘some people’, aka mohammedans, **mustn’t** be resisted, in any way, shape or form.
If the second is true, and this is an attempt at dawah, you must realise that no-one here is buying your bullshit. You’re a very inept dawah artist, my friend, and need to go back to dawah school.
You must also realise by now, whether you are merely a pusillanimous, cowardly fool, or an inept mohammedan trying your hand at a bit of attempted demoralisation, that no-one here is at all impressed with your drivelling shenanigans, that you have been comprehensively refuted by all the very able and knowledgeable posters here, and been made to look like the complete prat you are.
So, bugger off now, there’s a good chap. They’re waiting for you over on whatever leftard, or mohammedan supremacist site you crawled out of.
Foolster41 says
“I have returned from Germany with peace for our time.” – Nevvile Chamberline, a like-minded person to Erik.
“Appeasement is like feeding the crocodile in hopes that it will eat you last.” – Wiston Churchhill, a man looked up to by many here.
A big difference between these two quotes. You might want to study some history in the last 70 years, and then get the big picture of history of the last 1,400 years.
gravenimage says
Bravo, Mirren and Foolster!
jack says
Ok don’t know why you getting mad when I’m just painting a picture of the road you’ve chosen to go down. Therefore let me phrase it in a question. Let’s say we all start to censor ourselfs because of your strategy. Crazy people then decide that it’s really offensive to them that women are roaming the streets unveiled, so they start to demand everyone does. First no one complies but then they start murdering unveiled women. according to your stance we should now comply to his demands. Then he decides that all non believers should pay him, then that he can take any non believer woman as his personal seX slave.
where do you draw the line erik?
Or why do you believe demands would stop if we would just give in to this one?
Angemon says
Erik posted:
“What I did say is to the effects of causes…cause…post bad cartoons…effects of bad people…casualities.”
Cause: we stop printing cartoons because muslims might feel offended
Effect: muslims become emboldened and start taking their demands to another level.
Cartoons today, church bells tomorrow, non-islamic religions the next day (the time-line is figurative).