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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Joe Scarborough: Islamic jihadis like “ultrafundamentalist Christians”

Feb 16, 2015 9:27 am By Robert Spencer

Scarborough actually goes farther toward the truth than most mainstream media types, and much farther than anyone on MSNBC usually goes, when he rejects the idea that the jihadis are “as far from Islam as possible.” He even acknowledges that they stand for “a stripped down and pure Islam as it gets.” But then, perhaps sensing that he had strayed dangerously far from the politically correct reservation, ran back to safety by equating jihadis with “ultrafundamentalist Christians who believe every single word of the Bible has to be interpreted in the exact ways which could also lead to some violence.”

The problem with this is that the violent Christians that Obama used as bogeys just recently — the Crusaders — were not “ultrafundamentalist Christians,” and they didn’t (and couldn’t) point to the Bible to justify acts of violence in the way that jihadis point to the Qur’an to justify violence. This is why there have been over 25,000 acts of jihad terror since 9/11, all justified by their perpetrators by invoking Islamic teachings, and exactly zero acts of terror committed by fundamentalist Christians who pointed to the Bible to justify their violence. But such distinctions will never get a hearing on MSNBC.

“Scarborough: Like Radical Islam, ‘Ultrafundamentalist’ Christianity Could Also Lead to Violence,” by Mark Finkelstein, Newsbusters, February 16, 2015:

…On today’s Morning Joe, Scarborough twice suggested such parallels, analogizing radical Islamists to “ultrafundamentalist Christians who believe every single word of the Bible has to be interpreted in the exact ways which could also lead to some violence.” A bit later, Scarborough circled back, saying “it doesn’t matter what faith you’re in,” that a literal reading of scripture attracts the outcasts of society, for better or “for much worse.”…

JOE SCARBOROUGH: What your article, Graeme, pointed out was that Westerners, who say they’re just getting petty thiefs and robbers and assaulters from across the planet don’t understand and they will say, this isn’t Islam, this is as far from Islam as possible. You say this actually is a stripped down and pure Islam as it gets. It’s what, a very crude way to put it is this would be the ultrafundamentalist Christians who believe every single word of the Bible has to be interpreted in the exact ways which could also lead to some violence . . . I’m not comparing — I am not comparing religions here so I don’t want to be torn to shreds online today. But I will say to a lesser degree, it doesn’t matter what faith you have, a more fundamentalist, a more stripped down, raw version, a more liberal [sic, presumably meant “literal”] reading of the scripture will be more likely to attract the broken, the disillusioned, the outcast of society. And again, sometimes for better, in this case for much worse….

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Filed Under: Featured, journalistic bias, moral equivalence Tagged With: Joe Scarborough, MSNBC


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Comments

  1. Ayatrollah says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 9:36 am

    Luckily we are against marauding bands of Christians, killing indiscriminately for what ever reason, where ever they may be.

    This is a standard response “look what they did, or look what it says” as if it would excuse what any violent extremist (shariah Muslim) does

  2. Ephesian says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 9:36 am

    The difference is that in Christianity,with the coming of Jesus Christ came also ” a new way”,”I have come to show you a new way”,that is the Old Testament was left behind with the coming of the New,Jesus Christ.Christianity does not advocate killing,islam does.Islam has never has a “new” ,it is stuck,retarded in the 7th century,it’s followers doomed to follow satan.

  3. Jaladhi says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 9:37 am

    All libtards are brain dead!! This guy is no exception whether he masquerades as a liberal or moderate or conservative!! What kind of gobbledygook he is spitting out, even he doesn’t know or understand what he is saying. This is expected from a brain dead morons!!

    • mortimer says

      Feb 16, 2015 at 10:16 am

      Jaladhi wrote: “What kind of gobbledygook he is spitting out”

      Joe Scarborough has no interest in or knowledge of religion per se and it shows. To speak intelligently about religion requires years of study, but Scarborough believes religion is so simple, naïve and silly, that any pundit is MORE THAN QUALIFIED to dismiss all religion in a few condescending words.

      He’s an arrogant, uninformed and inaccurate opinionator.

      • Mr Pendle says

        Feb 16, 2015 at 3:15 pm

        HAHA – well put mate. Joe’s just hanging onto his job. Imagine working for those nutters. I would last 2 minutes, I would have to SLAP Brzezinski or at least vomit on her for just opening her irritating mouth. Arrogant is a perfect word for this horrid little man. I know it’s not good for you, but, I sometimes watch Morning Joe and I have to say, it’s fascinating watching liberals convincing each other they are right. Has Mr Savage would say, “liberalism is a mental disorder”

  4. TH says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 9:38 am

    The cruzades were justified as a defensive war in accordance with the classical Catholic doctrine of the jsut war as developed by St. Augustine and further so by St. Thomas Aquinas. Yes, fundamentalists who make literalist interpretation of the Bible and try to derive teaching for every aspect of life from the Bible in fact have a very scant understanding of what he Bible actually means. How many of them are going out killing people and justifying it by what they have read in the Bible and perhaps misunderstood it? NONE. This is a strawman argument.

  5. Don McKellar says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 9:45 am

    The problem with his statement at the end is a matter of nuance. Violent, crazy ultrafundamentalist Christians who blow up medical clinics and sequester themselves on compounds to fight it out with law enforcement agencies are few and far between because of this nuance. Taking the Bible completely literally and correctly as every word being true does lead to a form of insanity because you must ignore and block out reality to an extreme degree. A certain madness is the result. However, for it to become a violent madness requires a step beyond following what’s there and moving into your own extreme extensions from starting points. For example, nowhere in the Bible does it say anything about abortion or determining anything about the issues that ended up in violent bombings of medical clinics back in the 1980’s. Unlike the Koran, and the hadiths and “life story” of Mohammad from where the Islamic supremacists derive absolutely everything they do. And, in the case of ISIS, follow it as directly to the word as is possible in deed and action.

    • G. Hardy says

      Feb 16, 2015 at 10:10 am

      “nowhere in the Bible does it say anything about abortion…”
      Yes, it does. Try Exodus 20:2-17: ‘Thou shalt not kill’.

      • Wellington says

        Feb 16, 2015 at 12:56 pm

        But it is my understanding that Judaic law never extended full personhood to the fetus and so the injunction against killing here is, at best, vague. I would welcome your or other opinions on this matter.

        • Charli Main says

          Feb 16, 2015 at 1:17 pm

          Very interesting question. At what point does a developing mass of organic matter become human??
          A possible answer is, when the soul enters the body, which leads on to the question—at what point does the soul enter the body. At the exact point of conception, at the exact point of birth ??
          I don´t know if this question can be answered—-what do you think.

        • Wellington says

          Feb 16, 2015 at 2:27 pm

          Well, Charli Main, being brought up Roman Catholic I was always taught that the soul enters the body at conception and that you have a full human being from zygote status onwards. This is, of course, a religious doctrine. As for various legal codes, Judaic Law, Roman Law and Common Law never recognized the fetus as a full human being with full citizenship rights and all other rights, though it is interesting and fascinating that some rights have traditionally been extended to the fetus, for instance a person killing a pregnant mother has often been charged with two murders under Common Law. Fascinating topic I would argue.

        • Champ says

          Feb 16, 2015 at 5:58 pm

          Wellington & Charli Main, “Got Questions” offers some terrific insights from a Biblical point of view …

          Question: “Does the Bible teach that life begins at conception?”

          Answer: http://www.gotquestions.org/life-begin-conception.html

  6. badmally says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 9:46 am

    Joe is clueless. If he wants to see what an “ultrafundamentalist Christian” looks like, he sholud visit the Amish.

  7. jayell says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 9:56 am

    They keep on trying this one on, don’t they? Whilst muslims have the (not very good) habit of picking and choosing – and editing – whichever conflicting command from Allah to his ‘Messenger’ that they apparently wish, irrespective of the rules of abrogation, and dismissing the inconvenient remainder as ‘not islam’, Christians are primarily bound by the New Testament and can quite reasonably say that the Old Testament is not ‘Christian’, since it pre-dates Christ. Now, I’m not sure how many malicious, violent or blood-thirsty bits there are in the New Testament that would match the Qu’ran, in fact I don’t know of any, so there shouldn’t be any parallel between ‘fundamentalist’ (New Testament) Christians and ‘fundamentalist’ Moselms.

    • Mr Pendle says

      Feb 16, 2015 at 3:26 pm

      Jeyell, well said. The reason they’re throwing crap like this out is because it’s getting to the point that the problem is the book. The Quran. The more madness we see, the more the book is coming into focus. There is no escape. A lot of people are simply blowing off the MSMedia with their “moral equivalence” and digging into what they can see and know to be true. Making people feel guilty about a past that was 1000 years ago is a wild ass stretch. Again, the more incredible acts of insane violence we see, the more the press look foolish. They know the truth and if you watch carefully, you will see them slip up now then. It’s funny to watch.

      • voegelinian says

        Feb 16, 2015 at 4:13 pm

        “Jeyell, well said. The reason they’re throwing crap like this out is because it’s getting to the point that the problem is the book. The Quran.”

        Don’t forget the Sunna; the Koran is not the only problem.

  8. Angemon says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 9:59 am

    a more liberal [sic, presumably meant “literal”] reading of the scripture will be more likely to attract the broken, the disillusioned, the outcast of society. And again, sometimes for better, in this case for much worse….

    Let’s put it this way. if a religion teaches peace and love, then “ultra-fundamentalists” will be the most peaceful and loving people you’ll see. However, if a religion teaches hate and warfare…

    • mortimer says

      Feb 16, 2015 at 10:07 am

      Exactly. Joe Scarborough is a religious illiterate posing as a know-it-all. Indeed, how does an ‘ultrafundamentalist’ act out the Golden Rule? Such an ‘ultrafundamentalist’ would resemble, say, the Salvation Army, wouldn’t you think?

      If only Joe Scarborough could think! But that would interfere with spouting his speculative ‘opinion’.

      • Mr Pendle says

        Feb 16, 2015 at 3:37 pm

        this twat is worth 12 million. Joe Scarborough does know what’s going on. Rob writes it in his story but, he knows he’ll be up the road if he breaks out. That’s why we have the statement from him. Basically, he is just pure propaganda for this nasty little liberal cable station. He’s very happy taking their money. Don’t misunderstand me here, I don’t like this person at all. He has made his bed, now he can bloody well lie in it

    • voegelinian says

      Feb 16, 2015 at 4:21 pm

      Then, however, what the PC MCs do is assume the sweeping knowledge about hundreds of millions of Muslims being somehow “not fundamentalist” because they must all be modern secularists like us modern Westerners (or, to mix it up with other flavors of the crypto-Moderate Muslim, we can (also) say that hundreds of millions of Muslims are “ignorant of their own Islam” and/or “afraid of their own Tiny Minority of Extremists”; et fucking cetera). The PC MC (Politically Correct Multi-Culturalism) I refer to here has, in the last half century or so, become the dominant and mainstream worldview/perspective/paradigm by which to assess the problem of Islam (and as we know all too painfully well, the overt assessment according to PC MC is that, in fact, there is no problem of Islam per se). So prevalent and mainstream has PC MC become, in fact, dispersing everywhere throughout our modern Western societies in nearly every nook and cranny and corner from news media to academe to politics to pop culture to arts & entertainment to the casual conversations of ordinary people at dinner, at the bus stop, in the laundromat, at parties, at break during work, etc., that it has even, as I have noticed all too irksomely well, seeped into the Counter-Jihad in the form of various reflexes, tics, instincts, spasms and ejaculations blurted out (or even at times self-righteously maintained) now and then in various forums & venues.

      • Mr Pendle says

        Feb 16, 2015 at 7:10 pm

        beautiful

      • Demsci says

        Feb 16, 2015 at 11:59 pm

        Voegelinian, as you know I follow Daniel Pipes and Ryan Mauro (he is from ClarionProject), but I still am impressed and agreeing with what YOU say, here above.

        //”Then, however, what the PC MCs do is assume the sweeping knowledge about hundreds of millions of Muslims being somehow “not fundamentalist” because they must all be modern secularists like us modern Westerners (or, to mix it up with other flavors of the crypto-Moderate Muslim, we can (also) say that hundreds of millions of Muslims are “ignorant of their own Islam” and/or “afraid of their own Tiny Minority of Extremists”; et fucking cetera)”//

        I have noticed the same thing countless times in Holland. It is the norm here, it is what Geert Wilders is always fighting here. It is what has many of us frustrated to no end, but it seems so far unassailable. Can’t we find a way to demolish it?

        On a website “Geenstijl” many sarcastically joke about it. I noticed the term “Policors” for the Political Correct. We long since have been used to the term “Multi Culti’s”. I like those derogatory terms for the PC MC’s you mention.

        What strikes me is indeed these assumptions of the policors about: – Islam. – Muslims. – the perceived need t to defend both. – the for them of necessity “bad” motives of critics of Islam&Muslims (with them having charitable motives of “innocent until proven guilty”).

        I know you criticize my take, but it is: Turn it around!

        – since last year we have ISIS, with so much clear evidence of “the interpretation of Quran-Sunnah” that is “translated into totalitarian ideology and bloody acts” and even the policors see it.
        – this means that even the policors by now should be asked urgently if their assumptions about Quran-Sunna are correct. When the totalitarian ISIS can so well formulate their interpretation, why can’t the alleged, assumed, UNproblematic Muslims not do so? If ISIS is the assumed “anomaly”, the negative deviation from the norm, why is n’t a clear opposite interpretation of Quran-Sunna to that of ISIS not shouted from the rooftops?

        I know you think there is no clear opposite interpretation of Quran-Sunna. But now that ISIS is clear, the rest of the Muslims and the policors should be challenged to be clear also, about what Islam and the other Muslims are really about. Instead of this ever prevailing attitude; “Islam & Muslims must be innocent”.

        My game would be to charge Islam as being far too AVIO; Ambiguous Vague Incomplete Obsolete. And as you well know: these texts are immutable. Even the policors would never accept it when the constitution and main laws were like Quran-Sunnah; immutable and AVIO. So why do they accept this situation from the Muslims without even an effort of presenting the assumed innocent benevolent interpretation of Islam being put in clear writing?

        What’s the problem in demanding clarity from the presumed innocent Muslims? Or holding them accountable for having binding texts that are AVIO?!

        • voegelinian says

          Feb 17, 2015 at 5:47 pm

          “What’s the problem in demanding clarity from the presumed innocent Muslims? ”

          The problem is that we already know the answer: any Islamic clarity will be ISIS Islam. It would be like asking for clarity from Nazis. We would be fools to expect anything amenable to our way of life.

          Speaking of Holland, I wrote on my blog a couple of years ago about a Dutch academic named Meins G.S. Coetsier, who is an admirer of the great conservative philosopher Eric Voegelin. Most Voegelin academics are decidedly conservative in their politics. And yet Prof. Coetsier sees fit to express profound reservations about Geert Wilders:

          By using terms such as “the multicultural nightmare,” “the mass immigration” and “the Islamization,” Wilders attempts to order society and history according to an “anti-Islam” principle and the struggle of races and/or religion. History has taught us that such principles can only lead to severe disorder and destruction.

          I know the philosophy of Voegelin well (hence my nickname). Alas, Prof. Coetsier has botched his political science significantly. This is why I like to use the term “PC MC” because the problem is not merely “Leftists”. Prof. Coetsier is likely no Leftist (and other Voegelin academics I know are clearly not Leftists nevertheless parrot the PC MC memes about Islam).

          http://hesperado.blogspot.com/2013/02/more-voegelinian-pneumopathology.html

          http://hesperado.blogspot.com/2011/08/voegelinians-and-islam.html

      • Angemon says

        Feb 17, 2015 at 8:34 pm

        voegelinian posted:

        “Then, however, what the PC MCs do is assume the sweeping knowledge”

        Pot, meet kettle…

        “as I have noticed all too irksomely well”

        Yes, it’s always about YOU, isn’t it? How you claim to get everything right, even though you run away from criticism and instead chose to use thuggery to silence critics – a typically fascist tactic.

        BTW, shouldn’t you be not replying to any of my posts?

        http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/01/saudi-king-abdullah-is-dead/comment-page-1#comment-1185295

        “voegelinian says

        January 23, 2015 at 6:35 pm

        I hope Angemon isn’t under the impression that I bother to read his posts anymore…“

  9. mortimer says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 10:03 am

    Joe Scarborough is uninformed and uninterested in accuracy and full of opinion, speculation, guessing, conjecture, assumption, inference, deduction and presumption.

    In other words, Joe Scarborough hasn’t read any of Islam’s source texts, but considers himself an instant expert on Islam.

  10. Lesley says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 10:04 am

    I’m annoyed by ultra-fundamentalist Christians, but the worst they do to others is to be smugly self-righteous and intolerant in attitude. There are no incidences of Mennonite or Amish violence. No Christian fundamentalist militias roam the countryside, mowing people down with assault rifles whilst yelling, “Praise Jesus!” They might be judgmental and annoying (like the fundie who followed me around the supermarket in 1993 telling me that I was going to hell because I had tattoos), but that’s about it. Mentally ill people are attracted to all extreme forms of religion. Of the allowable and protected forms of religion that should be available to attract the mentally ill and those with some with organic brain damage, I would pick Christianity over Islam hands-down.

    Most Christians do lots of good works in their communities. The minorities of nut-job Christian fundamentalists who want to pray the devils out of you are easy to deal with… just ignore them until they find medication that works for them and are able to join the wider world in a friendly and functional way. None of them are perpetrating acts of horrific violence and mass terror in the name of Christ.

    Islam, on the other hand, does not qualify as an ideology worth of allowing or protecting in any civilized country. Islam fundamentalism promotes acts of horrific violence and mass terror because directives for it are outlined in their text.

    Any time a Christian ‘gets religion’ they get preachy and bar-b-q’s and annoy people in restaurants. Any time a Muslim ‘gets religion’ they start building bombs or sharpening knives for beheadings. There is no comparison… it’s like comparing apples and hand grenades.

    • mortimer says

      Feb 16, 2015 at 10:10 am

      Lesley wrote: “Most Christians do lots of good works in their communities”.

      Yes, those ‘ultrafundamentalists’ like the Salvation Army.

    • deja vu says

      Feb 16, 2015 at 3:33 pm

      Lesley, the definition of a Biblical Christian, which is the only definition that counts, is very different from what you describe. Whatever they call themselves, If they’re annoying or judgmental they do not qualify by God’s standards.

      In short, it is the task of every believer to grow more Christlike – not an easy path to follow given our inbuilt self-absorption. But it precludes attacking abortionists, abortion clinics, chasing people with threats of hellfire, judging them for any reason, and generally being annoying. To be a fundamentalist Christian simply means following the fundamentals of Jesus’ life, teaching and ministry. Those who behave like this are *not* following Christ’s example, so are merely self-described ‘christians’ who bring dishonour to the name of Christ.

      Jesus taught that a tree is judged by its fruit. As you rightly point out, the fundamentals of Islam are rather different – and so is its poisoned fruit.

      • Charli Main says

        Feb 17, 2015 at 2:28 am

        Very interesting and I agree with the general thread.
        God has given me a set of rules to live by. He has NOT appointed me the enforcer of His rules on others.

  11. William Lucas HarveyJr. says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 10:13 am

    Scarbourough’s statements are are akin to our “Imperial”, Islamist Sympathizing “Leader” Obama’s Statements, going back to the Dark/Middle Ages Atrocities of the 5th to 15th Century, attempting to blame Christians (who are NOT performing these Centuries old Atrocities TODAY) .

    Sort of like “Well – remember, the Christians did it too”, as a “Desperate” Obama “Excuse” , for his Muslim “Buddies”, for the Bloody Murdering Atrocities that Muslims are STILL performing NOW TODAY in the 21st Century.

    And by the way, Atrocities that the Muslims were ALSO performing in the Middle Ages, and have been performing and attempting World Domination in the name of Islam, “Allah” and “Mohammad” ever since.

  12. Alarmed Pig Farmer says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 10:38 am

    equating jihadis with “ultrafundamentalist Christians who believe every single word of the Bible has to be interpreted in the exact ways which could also lead to some violence.

    Joe is a smart, educated guy. That’s why he’s broadcast nationally five times a week. Too bad he doesn’t have the time to explain the complicated facts behind this assertion, even on a 24/7 news entertainment time. If Joe did have the time, he could explain the fundamentals of the two religions, and do a quick comparo between the Bible and the Holy Ko-Ran. Being really smart, he could also work in the salient from the Hadiths, just to be honest and clear.

    Too bad Joe doesn’t have the time to go into the facts underlying his comparison, it would take only a segment or two to objectively explain his comparison.

    But Joe doesn’t have two segments to spare. Wags will say he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, that he’s unaware of the specifics of the Ko-Ran and Hah-Deaths, but I don’t believe that. Joe is held back by the practical matter of time. It would not be practical to compare Judeo-Christianity to the Holy Islam, it’d take too much time and probably be boring and confuse the viewer audience.

  13. Jay Boo says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 10:46 am

    Yes, Muslims behead people.

    But lets not criticize this custom without also mentioning that Christians slice their turkeys and bread on Thanksgiving day.

  14. Marco says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 10:47 am

    Per the unwritten rules of PC leftism you cannot say anything even remotely disrespectful of islam unless you lasso in every other religion in particular Christianity, which the entire brain dead left hates.

  15. ApolloSpeaks says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 10:48 am

    SLAIN CHAPEL HILL STUDENT

    was an anti-Israel pro-Islamist 9/11 truther.

    Click http://www.apollospeaks.com for the story.

    • cs says

      Feb 16, 2015 at 12:34 pm

      Thanks for the link, I posted on the comments there.

  16. Richie says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 10:49 am

    I can’t seem to find any videos of Christians decapitating people, but countless ones of Muslims sawing off heads using dull hand held knives. I’m surprised he didn’t respond to accounts of islamic attrocities with ‘Oh yeah? what about Timothy McVeigh’? Thats a favorite chestnut leftists always throw out

    Islam is a death cult, and they can never be defeated if we can’t even face that reality

  17. Lesley says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 11:10 am

    So, I may be diving deep into tin-foil hat territory, but does anyone have any info about Agenda 21 and Obama being completely held in the thrall of the Saudis? Is it possible that our leaders have been directed to ignore the threat of Islamist violence because it keeps us distracted, divided, and in fear, and stages an eventual crisis that will make a UN takeover and a one-world government seem reasonable?

    I did some noodling along these lines, and found some info about the Saudis bragging that they would put a Muslim in the US White House by 2008, and that Obama’s support of the Muslim Brotherhood will help destroy Egypt and make an excuse for the US to welcome 40 or 50 million Muslim refugees into the US, and that the Saudis will bail out our economy on the condition that we adopt Sharia…

    I try to walk the middle line, and not accept conspiracy theory without data to either back it up or disprove it. Does anyone have any resources to share along this track? I know it sounds crazy, but it’s not like there aren’t plenty of stranger-than-fiction events happening in the news these days :-/

    I still can’t believe that President Obama paid his respects to the Saudi king who passed away, but took a pass on the Charlie Hebdo memorial… That seems deeply suspicious to me.

  18. Lesley says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 11:27 am

    Here’s a link to some more info about Obama being a Saudi plant. I think the most disturbing thing is that the article is from 2011, and it talks about allowing for mass immigration of illegals and ‘fixing’ the healthcare issue in preparation for making way for mass immigration of Muslims and then the Muslim world will see what he will do for Islam on the issue of Israel. I don’t think I would have paid any mind to this in 2011, but now it’s spooky. Obama has been so hostile to Netanyahu, who frankly seems like a wonderful leader and a great protector for the State of Israel. I’m confused by the hostility that Obama has shown to him lately. Here’s the link:

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/obamas-secret-muslim-plot

    • Doglicka says

      Feb 16, 2015 at 2:46 pm

      Thanks Lesley, very interesting article. There is an ‘Oh wow’ moment exactly as you say, when you consider some of the things he has said and done.

      I think America is tangled up in leftist PC issues and Obama for many people was a way out of it. America is also tangled up in the cult of celebrity. In other words, part of the reason a lot of people voted for him was he had ‘celebrity’ gravitas.

      They say a day is a long time in politics; the world has 2 more years of him?? This will be a long two years.

    • somehistory says

      Feb 16, 2015 at 6:03 pm

      MJ was being very sarcastic, but they should hang heads today as much of it has happened. Over the four years, many muslim countries have killed/tried to kill, their presidents, pms, kings, etc., the sunnis in the form of is are everywhere killing, raping, etc. and the muslims in the countries of Europe and America have grown by leaps and bounds in numbers and in influence on the various societies.

  19. pdxnag says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 12:26 pm

    All of mans gods are man made, and can be as diverse as man or art or anything made by men. That is, not all “religions” must be the same.

  20. don vito says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 1:02 pm

    So in keeping with the ultrafundamentalist theme, would Craig Hicks be an ultrafundamentalist atheist?

    • Bezelel says

      Feb 16, 2015 at 4:45 pm

      don vito, The $64 dollar question, I will keep checking back to see any answers.

  21. duh_swam i says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 1:08 pm

    All religious people are religious supremacist bigots. It can’t be helped, it comes with religious belief. So if that is good, bad, or indifferent, depends on how it is expressed. It’s not hard to see the difference in how Christian bigots and Islamic bigots. Christian bigots talk a lot while Islamic bigots slaughter.

    • Mo says

      Feb 16, 2015 at 7:58 pm

      @ duh_swam i

      “All religious people are religious supremacist bigots.”

      And you’re a secular supremacist bigot. So now what?

      (I do love it when the Christophobes show their true colors.)

  22. Bezelel says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 1:22 pm

    Having had conversations with people, of scarborough’s mindset, about religion, the word fundamentalist gets thrown out there like a trump card. They bring the subject up and when I respond with appropriate scripture, i get accused of preaching at them. Fundamental Judeo-Christianity is the Ten Commandments and I defy anyone to find fault with them. The fault lies with the individuals inability to comply completely. Mr scarborough probably has only skimmed the Bible and being the intellectual giant that he thinks he is has formed his opinion thusly. The question is does he form all of his opinions that way? Considering the weight of the subject, the potentially life changing perspective to be gained, God deserves more than a cavalier condescending glance from a blind and deaf moron.

  23. Bro333 says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 1:38 pm

    Scarbourogh being a half baked RETARDLICAN as most do was just trying to cover his boney @$$ before his Masters could chide him for daring to offend the most violent THEOCRACY (not religion) Islam that has ever diseased the face of God’s green earth. Seeing as Christ’s entire philosophy was LIBERAL and that it was the Right-Wing Pharisees (not the Left-Wing Sadducee’s) who conspired to and did murder the Son of God…it makes it difficult to blame a “Leftist” religion like Christianity for what Right-Wing ISLAM is doing all across the planet. Jesus clearly stated Separation of Church and State (a LIBERAL concept) when he said “Give unto Caesar that which belongs to Caesar and give unto God that which belongs to God”. Islam as a THEOCRACY can not do this. They believe that their Laws of Allah are God’s laws and man’s laws are inferior…therefore giving them the right to take over every country on earth in order to fulfill the destiny of Islam/Allah’s Law. No matter which way you lean,without balance you fall on your face.

  24. Rev. Bill Romansky says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 2:30 pm

    My 81 year old fundamentalist Christian mother is often led to acts of violence by scripture.

    She violently rebukes the devil, in Jesus name.

    Joe is a God hater who will be the first to be beheaded by his friends the musselmen.

  25. josepxicot says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 2:39 pm

    Joe my friend,take it easy,the christians,also the ultrafundamentalist,never kill to other people which are
    not christians,our religion is love to all and mercy in the name of The Lord.unfortunally I can´t say the sa
    me of the muslims.

  26. somehistory says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 2:40 pm

    Ok, so the person who follows what Christ said as far as they can follow what Christ said, being an imperfect human, whereas Christ was a perfect human…the only Perfect Man after the original creation of Adam…is going to be, to paraphrase the scar borough guy …and some commenters…is to be either: violent, mad or violent and mad (mad in the sense of insane, not necessarily angry).

    I totally disagree. If one follows as far as is possible for that one…different people are capable of different levels of whatever they may undertake…the words, commands and example of Christ, they will be the least violent and the least mad…in either sense of the word’s meaning…than any person who may take a few of Christ’s words *literally* or take seriously none of His words.

    I abhor abortion. And in the book of Psalms, it describes the unborn baby and how Jehovah God, Who created the child, feels about that child (Psalm 139). God sees even the “embryo” and put all “its parts in writing.”
    I abhor abortion because it is the killing of this child made by my God. And I abhor abortion because of the beauty in the lives of children, the love they give so free and willingly. But I leave it to Him to judge those guilty of killing and to decide their punishment or to extend mercy as He sees fit to do.
    There is a verse that shows we do not have the *right* to carry out our feelings of righteous indignation or anger. Not the usual, “Judge not, lest you be judged (Matt 7:1-3)” nor the “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay (Romans 12:19).’ Those are excellent and need to be remembered. Yet, there is one seldom quoted or cited.
    Jude 1:9 (NT) says that the Archangel Michael was having an argument or dispute with the devil, satan, and said, “May Jehovah rebuke you.” And in Zechariah 3:2 (OT), it reads, “The angel said to satan, may the LORD Jehovah rebuke you.”

    The Bible commands us: “Be angry and yet do not sin (Ephesians 4:26).” I am angry a lot these days based on what the muslims are doing and demanding that others do in order not to be killed in some gruesome way. And angry about what they claim about their book and its author and claims made that they worship the True God and are doing the killing for Him. And angry a lot about what people say about my God that is totally false. And angry about what is claimed of Christianity and Christians.

    But my God has not commanded me to bomb, kill, or otherwise harm anyone. He has commanded me to wait on Him and He will make these right in His way and according to His timing of matters.(Psalm 27) He expects me to follow the commands of His Son and wait on Him to set matters right…to “rebuke the devil.”

    These guys who don’t know the Bible, don’t read it, don’t believe it, and yet spout about it and what Christians who do follow it are like…comparing all actions they deem to be wrong with the horrific atrocities done and commanded by islam…what we will or will not do in the name of Christ or the name of God…are showing just how foolish they are.

    • Bezelel says

      Feb 16, 2015 at 3:43 pm

      Somehistory, Romans 13: 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
      We are supposed to use authorized people when there’s a need, more evidence that the Founders were seeking divine guidance. Of course ISIS can claim the same. Fundamental Christianity and fundamental islam are incompatible or islam has proven to be incompatible with anyone.

      • somehistory says

        Feb 16, 2015 at 4:05 pm

        Human governments are allowed by God to use force and punishment against evil doers. Since I am not part of the government, not a ruler or king or any such thing, I abide by the commandments meant for me personally.
        If someone comes into my home to inflict evil upon me or my family, I will not hesitate to defend at that time. Otherwise, I leave punishment to our Creator, as He has instructed us to do.

        • Bezelel says

          Feb 16, 2015 at 4:40 pm

          Somehistory, I’m with you on your stance, since I’m past re-enlistment age, There are so many would-be libs that try to define Christianity on their terms and then claim it is flawed.

        • somehistory says

          Feb 16, 2015 at 5:06 pm

          I understand what you’re saying. Those who are not trying to live by the principles and laws set out by Christ do not understand them, but endeavor to use their human *wisdom* or *logic* to judge whether or not Christians are following those laws and commandments. What they also don’t understand is that they will answer to the same God as Christians answer to, whether they are acting on their own or following government orders. Each must make his or her own choices, and each will face whatever consequences are deemed by man’s Creator as appropriate.

          Christ said each one must carry his own load…we are admonished to help others carry their burdens (Gal. 6:2)…and each one will answer for himself/herself as to how they have carried that load. That is one of the reasons He said, “Get under my yoke with me, for my yoke is kindly and my load is light (Matt. 11:29 ).” If we do as He says, He is helping us carry our load.
          This is the sanest way to live. The best way. The least violent. The most hated by the world.

    • Champ says

      Feb 16, 2015 at 4:24 pm

      Somehistory wrote:

      These guys who don’t know the Bible, don’t read it, don’t believe it, and yet spout about it and what Christians who do follow it are like…comparing all actions they deem to be wrong with the horrific atrocities done and commanded by islam…what we will or will not do in the name of Christ or the name of God…are showing just how foolish they are.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Yes–well stated, Somehistory!

      • somehistory says

        Feb 16, 2015 at 6:04 pm

        Thanks, Champ. Hope that baby is thriving.

  27. Bill says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 2:59 pm

    Joe Scarborough knows NOTHING of the true nature of Islam or Christian “fundamentalism.” Most of the bloggers on this page forgot more about Islam than he or 99.9% of the talking heads from MSNBC or Fox or any other network. I am a Protestant “fundamentalist.” A “fundamentalist” reads “love your enemies” and “turn the other cheek” in the NT. A wise “fundamentalist is also aware of Romans 13 where Paul justifies righteous force by the government.

    If he wants to start to learn something of the nature of Islam as compared to the Reformation, for example, which led Christians to “fundamentalism” he should read something of a scholar who knows a little about this topic: Raymond Ibrahim. I will summarize: Christian “fundamentalism” (i.e. The Reformation and its more literal interpretation of the Scriptures) begat WESTERN CIVILIZATION’S PROTESTANT BASED LIBERTY. Islamic “fundamentalism” leads to a very authentic form of Islam called ISIS.

  28. Julia says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 3:40 pm

    He’s absolutely right! It’s like that bible verse that says “Go ye, and bomb an abortion clinic.” That’s why 2,500 abortion clinics have been bombed since 9/11. Islamic fundamentalism is EXACTLY like Christian fundamentalism.

  29. EYESOPEN says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    Will the moral relativism never end?

  30. Champ says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 4:31 pm

    Robert Spencer wrote:

    The problem with this is that the violent Christians that Obama used as bogeys just recently — the Crusaders — were not “ultrafundamentalist Christians,” and they didn’t (and couldn’t) point to the Bible to justify acts of violence in the way that jihadis point to the Qur’an to justify violence.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Precisely, Robert!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    And “Got Questions” offers some good insights regarding this issue …

    Question: “What does the Bible say about violence?”

    Answer: http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-violence.html

  31. CogitoErgoSum says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 4:33 pm

    I’ve been trying to think of who I would consider to be the most ultra ultra-fundamentalist Christian ever. For me it would be St. Francis of Assisi. He was definitely one of the outcasts of society and was too much of a fundamentalist for even the Pope at the time. He was one crazed Christian fundamentalist outcast alright. So be careful. Follow that New Testament too closely and you are likely to get a St. Francis. Follow the Quran too closely and you just might get an Osama Bin Laden. Pretty much the same difference, don’t you think?

    • Champ says

      Feb 16, 2015 at 4:55 pm

      I’ve been trying to think of who I would consider to be the most ultra ultra-fundamentalist Christian ever.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      That’s a great question, CES! And it all depends on how someone defines “ultra-fundamentalist Christian”, and in my humble opinion, Paul the apostle fits this description to a T. Paul followed the fundamentals of Christianity …and so did Peter and John, and many other disciples, as well–but Paul stands head and shoulders above the rest and Saul’s conversion to Christianity is quite remarkable:

      Conversion of St Paul

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMFHC1hXbUQ

      After his conversion, his name was changed from Saul to Paul!

      • Champ says

        Feb 16, 2015 at 5:07 pm

        Everyone, please watch the above vide–it’s such a great Biblical story!

        And here’s the Biblical account from Acts:

        Acts 9:1-19 New International Version (NIV)

        Saul’s Conversion

        9 Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples. He went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”

        5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.

        “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

        7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.

        10 In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!”

        “Yes, Lord,” he answered.

        11 The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”

        13 “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem. 14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.”

        15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”

        17 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength.

      • CogitoErgoSum says

        Feb 16, 2015 at 5:26 pm

        St. Paul is certainly a good choice also. But did he strip himself naked and leave EVERYTHING behind to follow the words of Christ the way Francis did? Did he preach the Gospel even to the birds? Besides, Paul didn’t just follow the New Testament, he actually wrote a big part of it himself. I think that disqualifies him by a technicality, don’t you? Ha! I’m just kidding.

        I liked your video clip. For a good movie about St. Francis check YouTube for “Francis of Assisi” starring Bradford Dillman. You might also be able to find “Brother Sun, Sister Moon” there also. It was free on YouTube a few months ago but you may have to pay to watch it now. You’ve made me also want to find some movies about Paul. I’m off to look. May God bless and keep you well, Champ. Smiles.

        • Champ says

          Feb 16, 2015 at 5:37 pm

          Thank you, CES!! ..and may God Bless you and yours, too! 🙂

        • deja vu says

          Feb 16, 2015 at 8:31 pm

          I would nominate Richard Wurmbrand who was imprisoned and tortured most horribly for 14 years under the Romanian Communist regime.

          Read his book ‘Tortured for Christ’ to learn about this giant of the Christian faith and his God-given capacity for humility and forgiveness.

          http://www.persecution.com/public/tfc.aspx?clickfrom=%3D73696465626172

        • pumbar says

          Feb 16, 2015 at 11:14 pm

          Cliff Richard? (lol)

  32. cynical1 says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 5:05 pm

    Anyone remember the last beheading by a Christian?

    In the name of religion?

    The Crusades are so like 700 years ago.

    Guess who did 21 at once.

    Yesterday.

    • Champ says

      Feb 16, 2015 at 5:17 pm

      Hear, hear! …and the Crusades were born from the violent aggression of islam; therefore they were a defensive war.

  33. ruth says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 6:19 pm

    When will the dum dums understand the terrorists all have one thing in common…They all believe the koran…And the koran is the gospel of anti christ..1 John 2-22 proves it… And 2 Corinthains 11-14,4 proves it…and the bloody history of Islam proves it..

  34. King Dave says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 7:02 pm

    Yeah Joe, all those Christians beheading, bombing, stoning and rioting do really happen every day….In the imagination of your viewers

  35. voegelinian says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 7:04 pm

    As I put it elsewhere on this comments thread (http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/02/joe-scarborough-islamic-jihadis-like-ultrafundamentalist-christians/comment-page-1#comment-1198175), but here reproduce (hopefully) in a pithier summary, what this blowhard airhead Idiot-on-Stilts Joe Scarborough is implying and reinforcing is the core meme of the PC MC paradigm about the problem of Islam (i.e., in PC MC terms, about the non-problem of Islam): the core meme, that is, of the TMOE (Tiny Minority of Extremists). When a PC MC like Scarborough shows signs of “getting warmer” to the problem of Islam, we see he’s willing to throw even Islam under the bus – as long as he can save the vast majority of Muslims.

    That reflects my recent realization that the real Problem of the Problem (i.e., the problem of the West’s myopia about the primary problem of Islam) is not so much Islam per se, but Muslims: There are two sides to this:

    1) The problem for us (we few who have woken up) is not primarily the mere ideology or texts of Islam, but its concrete translation into bloody actuality, by the agents & carriers of Islam — Muslims.

    2) We see increasingly that the real concern of the PC MCs is their anxious need to protect the vast majority of Muslims from the evil potential for white right-wing Westerners to lynch, round up, and genocide them (needless to say, this anxiety on the part of the PC MCs is irrational and ungrounded in anything except their morbidly excessive civilizational self-criticism and White Guilt about our “shameful history” of colonialism, slavery, and “genocide” of precious indigenous natives who were harmoniously co-existing with their ecosystems until the evil White Man came along to rape and slaughter and oppress them, so goes their feverishly idiotic narrative which, in a strangely ironic paradox, has become woven into the culture of the modern West, taught to children in social studies classes, indoctrinating college students in history, comparative literature, comparative religions, political science, and anthropology classes (along with various other amorphously dubious programs and departments), as well as in our political discourse, in our news media, in our general pop culture (e.g., NPR podcasts, PBS & BBC documentaries, major Hollywood movies, TV and cable shows, et fucking cetera).

    • Angemon says

      Feb 17, 2015 at 8:44 pm

      voegelinian posted:

      “That reflects my recent realization that the real Problem of the Problem (i.e., the problem of the West’s myopia about the primary problem of Islam) is not so much Islam per se, but Muslims: There are two sides to this:

      1) The problem for us (we few who have woken up) is not primarily the mere ideology or texts of Islam, but its concrete translation into bloody actuality, by the agents & carriers of Islam — Muslims.

      Funny how the nature of your “recent” “realization” doesn’t stray much from the current leftist paradigm – disregard islam, the problem is the way some people are acting upon it.

      BTW, weren’t you once banned from JW for stating that muslims weren’t human? How recent is your “realization”?

  36. Dave J says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 7:04 pm

    Who is committing these cruel and outrageous acts TODAY? (And yesterday, last week, last decade, etc.) Everything else is history, true perhaps, but irrelevant.

    Focus, people.

  37. jay says

    Feb 16, 2015 at 7:23 pm

    After Church Sunday we all hung up three gays on a crane and stoned a woman for being raped by her father when she was 9, so I guess he’s right this is pretty common across the western world. I mean, Jesus did say kill kill kill, it’s right there in the bible.

    • Sergio says

      Feb 17, 2015 at 8:50 am

      😀

  38. Lia Wissing says

    Feb 17, 2015 at 5:03 am

    If being a ‘fundamentalist’ Christian means one who believes the Bible, I must one of those, I suppose (I read the parables as parables, though, so please skip that argument). Must I now buy a firearm and go looking for somebody to shoot? Assault another person? Spit at somebody else? Call my neightbour names?

  39. Sergio says

    Feb 17, 2015 at 8:32 am

    Ultrafundamentalist Christians go to poor areas to feed the needy, help the widows, heal the sick, and sometimes be beheaded just for sticking to what they believe. As an ultrafundamentalist Christian, I am not allowed to hurt even a fly.

  40. reichartk says

    Feb 17, 2015 at 3:49 pm

    Eddie says “By the way, as an atheist I believe the Bible and the Koran belong on the same shelf as Harry Potter and Batman.”
    Well, where would you put your copies of the atheistic books Das Kapital and Mein Kampf? As an atheist your religion has murdered more than millions of people- the French and Russian Revolutions, the gulags, the killing fields, concentration camps, ….shall we go on? All in the name of scientific atheism and god of humanity. Not to mention these days, millions murdered and euthanized in the name of choice. Atheists have a lot in common with their Islamic brethren- they both hate Christianity and ignore historical evidence, logic, coherence etc…in short , the truth. Therefore with your false equivocation and moral equivalence of Christianity and Islam, it merely shows you know nothing. You emote.In your ‘local reality’,apples and oranges are the same. Thus atheists /liberals aid and abet the rise of Islam in the West with their phony multicult equivocating. You pontificate your atheist/liberal creed on what basis? Who are you to judge? It seems it takes great faith to be an atheist in the face of truth.
    Atheists/liberals and Muslims are trying to create a heaven on earth. But it is really a hell you are creating- but maybe that is what you want.

    • Champ says

      Feb 17, 2015 at 3:58 pm

      Bravo, Reichartk!!! …great comeback and so spot on!

  41. Mo says

    Feb 17, 2015 at 8:52 pm

    @ Eddie says

    Mo, Why should I apologize?

    Because you have not the slightest idea what you’re talking about. People have posted correct information for you, and you have not even examined it. How do I know that? Because you haven’t had time to do so, before you go posting more of the same nonsense!

    First you say this:

    ” In my opinion, the Reformers were correct in their understanding of scripture. Even John Wesley in the 18th century lamented the end of the witchcraze (His Journal). Wesley said Christians should have the right to kill witches.”

    And then you say this, which entirely contradicts the first part.

    ” By the way, as an atheist I believe the Bible and the Koran belong on the same shelf as Harry Potter and Batman.”

    You’ve never read the Bible, you have no idea what it says, no idea what it teaches on anything, and no desire to learn.

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