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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Salon: “If you want to know why ISIS exists, don’t bother searching Islamic texts, or examining Islamic traditions”

Feb 19, 2015 7:48 pm By Robert Spencer

Haroon S. MoghulThe author of this Salon piece is Haroon Moghul, who is fellow at the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding, Fellow at the New America Foundation, Ph.D. candidate at Columbia University, and the Alfred Rosenberg of the “Islamophobia” movement. Back in the early years of the National Socialist movement in Germany, Rosenberg’s The Myth of the Twentieth Century was second only to Hitler’s Mein Kampf in giving an intellectual veneer to the Nazis’ thuggery and Jew-hatred. Rosenberg was a principal architect of the National Socialists’ anti-Semitism, race theory, claim that Germany had a right to huge expanses of territory in Europe, and rejection of Christianity, and was respected in Nazi Germany as one of Nazism’s foremost intellectual godfathers.

Moghul is the Alfred Rosenberg of the “Islamophobia” movement because the service he performs for it is similar to that which Rosenberg served for Nazism: while gutter thugs such as the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) are the new Brownshirts, concentrating on smearing, defaming and marginalizing of foes of jihad terror, Moghul takes a high road (if there can be anything like a high road in this dirty enterprise), attempting to invest the idea of “Islamophobia” with some actual intellectual substance. Since the concept of “Islamophobia” is designed to shut down thought and intimidate people into not thinking, this attempt is foredoomed — as I showed here in connection with one of Moghul’s earlier efforts. Moghul is not as crass, crude, or thuggish as CAIR, but ultimately they’re two sides of the same coin: Moghul is just a Brownshirt in a suit and tie, attempting to shout down all who dare raise the slightest critical voice regarding jihad terror.

In this piece, he excoriates Graeme Wood for daring to suggest in The Atlantic that the Islamic State has something to do with Islam, contrary to today’s state dogma. The only thing he doesn’t do, as we shall see, is refute any of Wood’s substantive points. Comments interspersed below.

“The Atlantic’s big Islam lie: What Muslims really believe about ISIS,” by Haroon Moghul, Salon, February 19, 2015:

Imagine a group of people who rape. Enslave. Maim. Murder. Ethnically cleanse. Extort. Burn. Behead. But then imagine this—they don’t lie? Can’t lie. Won’t lie. That’s what Graeme Wood’s recent Atlantic essay, “What ISIS Really Wants,” really wants us to believe.

That a movement that has earned the world’s nearly universal opprobrium for its grotesque violence and wickedness is nevertheless honest in describing why it does what it does. I beg to differ. The only Muslims who think ISIS represents Islam, or even Muslims, are ISIS themselves.

Well over three thousand Muslims have gone from Western countries to join the Islamic State. We never saw this with al-Qaeda or any other jihad group. If the Islamic State is misrepresenting Islam, and “the only Muslims who think ISIS represents Islam, or even Muslims, are ISIS themselves,” why is this happening? That is the question that neither Haroon Moghul nor Barack Obama nor any other apologist for Islam who claims that the Islamic State has nothing to do with Islam has never addressed.

That’s the first thing everyone needs to know about “the Islamic State.” And the second? If you want to know why ISIS exists, don’t bother searching Islamic texts, or examining Islamic traditions. The real reason ISIS happens is because of what keeps happening to Muslims.

There we go again: the ever-present Muslims-are-victims narrative. The Islamic State only exists because non-Muslims are being bad to Muslims. The idea here is to wring more concessions from the West to Muslim countries, with the claim that these concessions will stop the jihad. They won’t, of course.

The Incomparability of Civilizations

There’s almost no comparison between Islam and the West. For one thing, Islam is a religion. The West obviously is not. But even the countries of the world that are Muslim-majority don’t compare to the West. For all this fearful talk of a global Muslim Caliphate, it’s the West that has made real progress in creating transnational institutions.

There’s no Muslim counterpart to the European Union, the Schengen Treaty, NATO, the G-20—a Western initiative—or the many bilateral and multilateral agreements and processes that make the West what it is. Nor is this exclusively a mark of the Muslim world: You think China, Brazil or India enjoys the alliances we do? The kinds of integration that make our societies so prosperous and powerful?

The world’s Muslim-majority societies are remarkably diverse—much more so than the West, I’d argue.

Really? Which one has a President from a racial or ethnic minority? In which ones do non-Muslims enjoy full equality of rights with non-Muslims, including the right to proselytize that Muslims enjoy? In which are women absolutely free not to wear the hijab or some other covering without any fear that she will be propositioned, called a whore, menaced, threatened, or even killed? In which ones can gays live openly as gays without fear of police harassment and worse?

Which is all fine, in theory, until you get to the practice. These very different peoples are going through our equivalent of the dark ages, the consequence of centuries of colonialism, occupation, authoritarianism and extremism.

Note that it’s everyone else’s fault. The world’s Muslim-majority societies would be pristine paradises of diversity, multiculturalism, tolerance of love were it not for centuries of colonialism, occupation, authoritarianism and extremism. This echoes the jihadis’ habit of blaming everyone else for every atrocity they commit: they killed the Jordanian and Japanese hostages because the Japanese and Jordanians wouldn’t play ball, they killed the 21 Coptic Christians because of some imaginary “Crusade,” etc. It’s always the other guy’s fault — this is a hallmark of Islamic supremacist analysis.

As Muslim societies struggle to find their way forward, everything is up for grabs. What kind of government should they have? What role should religion play? How should power be divided? Very little is agreed on. One of them is this: Among an incredibly diverse, astonishingly fractured and contentious community, ISIS is anathema.

Here again: then why are so many young Muslims from the West joining the Islamic State? Because of colonialism?

Many people still ask questions like, “Why don’t Muslims protest ISIS?” Of course, every Muslim institution and organization outside of the region has. As for the Muslims who are closer? Well, put it another way. People in unsafe neighborhoods don’t denounce the gangs who make their lives miserable, at least not if they want to stay alive. They turn to the police–maybe. Unless they don’t trust those police.

Where exactly have Muslims protested against the Islamic State? Recently we have seen hundreds of thousands of Muslims protest against cartoons of Muhammad, and nary a single one protest against the murder of the cartoonists by Islamic jihadists. Moghul has the luxury of knowing that he can make this fantastic assertion and that no one will call him on it, because his fellow propagandists have already floated the idea that Muslims are fighting against and protesting against jihad terror all the time, but the “Islamophobic” media just won’t cover it. This is, of course, absurd: the mainstream media is wholly sympathetic to Moghul and his ilk, and would like nothing better than to have a huge anti-ISIS Muslim protest to highlight. But there aren’t any, so Moghul just claims that there were many and knows he won’t be challenged.

When you’re fractured and fragmented, it’s hard to root out a movement like ISIS, and even harder to rally together when the people on the other side are just as brutal. If not more so. Syrian President Bashar Assad and his Iranian backers have killed more people than the Islamic State has. It’s not an easy time to be Muslim, that’s for sure.

But for every deluded soul ISIS ensnares, or who seeks them out, countless more condemn them, oppose them, reject them or fight them. It’s beyond a stretch to argue that ISIS represents Islam, is grounded in Islam, or justified by Islam. That’s not to say they don’t claim religious mandates, or exploit religion to enable their savagery.

In reality, there is not a single program in any mosque or Islamic school in the U.S. that has a program that teaches against the Islamic State’s understanding of Islam. Why not? There are plenty of Muslims who condemn the Islamic State, but where are those who are actually opposing them or fighting them?

It’s that no one’s buying it.

“Islamic State crisis: ‘3,000 European jihadists join fight’” — BBC, September 2014

Just ask Muslims the world over. Imagine that: actually talking to and hearing out 1.5 billion people who live, identify with and practice this religion. From Sunni to Shi’a, secular to conservative, Islamist to liberal, autocratic to democratic, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and his doppelganger of a Caliphate have united the Muslim world like no one else has – against them.

Even al-Qaida, which the vast majority of the world’s Muslims have rejected, condemned and spurned, considers ISIS too violent. This is despite ISIS saying its actions are justified in Islam, or acting in Islam’s name or those faithful to the faith. Though ISIS assembles its rhetoric with bits and pieces of religion, its relationship to Islam is like Frankenstein to a human being, or a zombie to a living person.

Al-Qaeda is a competitor — of course they will run down the Islamic State. But in any case, these are just assertions. We are well into the piece now, and Moghul has not yet addressed even one of Wood’s assertions. Wood, for example, wrote: “Exempted from automatic execution, it appears, are Christians who do not resist their new government. Baghdadi permits them to live, as long as they pay a special tax, known as the jizya, and acknowledge their subjugation. The Koranic authority for this practice is not in dispute….The Koran specifies crucifixion as one of the only punishments permitted for enemies of Islam. The tax on Christians finds clear endorsement in the Surah Al-Tawba, the Koran’s ninth chapter, which instructs Muslims to fight Christians and Jews ‘until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.’ The Prophet, whom all Muslims consider exemplary, imposed these rules and owned slaves.” Does Moghul refute any of this? No, he doesn’t even try. He just asserts that the Islamic State is not Islamic and demands that you take it on his word. And Salon readers being easy marks, they will.

It might look similar, but it is anything but. ISIS is a monster in Islamic garb. That doesn’t mean I don’t take the threat seriously, or believe that Muslims don’t have a responsibility to fight the language of extremism—and its consequences. For too long we’ve turned a blind eye to real anti-Semitism, authoritarianism, factionalism, sectarianism, patriarchy and privilege.

That’s very, very funny. I eagerly await Haroon Moghul’s first article exploring the roots of Islamic anti-Semitism in the Qur’an and Sunnah, and denouncing it.

This is a war that will take years to fight, and tremendous resources to prosecute. We have to be ready. But in knowing what we’re fighting, let’s not forget why we’re fighting.

Going Abroad in Search of Monsters to Create

And that brings me to my second point. Some folks might accept all of this, but then argue, “If ISIS isn’t Islamic, why do they use Islamic language?” ”Why is Islam alone apparently so violent, so brutal, so terrible?” And that’s a compelling point, except that it doesn’t include any context….

Moghul then devotes the rest of his piece to denouncing Saddam Hussein and the American intervention in Iraq for the rise of the Islamic State. He never does get around to answering his two questions above. And I doubt he ever will. I agree with Moghul that the Iraq war was ill-advised and poorly executed, and has resulted in disaster for everyone involved. And there is no doubt that in many ways it gave rise to the Islamic State. But that in itself does not mean that it is not Islamic, or not working from Islamic texts and teachings to justify its brutality. Moghul here hasn’t  refuted Graeme Wood’s Atlantic piece, or made any real case that the Islamic State is misrepresenting Islam. He concludes: “There are more radicals now than there were 15 years ago. We have to combat them, fight them and defeat them.  But we don’t need to misrepresent who they are or where they came from, not just because that would be dishonest, but because it would make it that much harder to triumph over them.” With that, I couldn’t agree more — and Haroon Mogul is one of those who are doing the misrepresenting.

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Filed Under: "Islamophobia", Featured, Islamic State (aka ISIS, ISIL, Daesh), War is deceit Tagged With: Haroon Moghul, Salon


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Comments

  1. Paul says

    Feb 19, 2015 at 8:04 pm

    If you want to make a pancake don’t bother using eggs, flour or milk.

    • jihad3tracker says

      Feb 19, 2015 at 10:53 pm

      The superbly cited & astonishing comprehensive piece by Graeme Woods has apparently penetrated like a Hellfire missile into the central bunkers of Muslim liars around our Islamically pestilential planet.

      This guy can be told about the deficiencies of his rebuttal HERE at : moghul@gmail.com. Getting anally reamed for clownish patheticism IS NOT PAINLESS, so temper the sarcasm.

      There is probably a giant size tube of Preparation-H being used at this very moment to alleviate the trauma..

      • ben Haggai says

        Feb 20, 2015 at 11:16 am

        Mohamed (PBUH) said in his Hadiths: “The Day of Resurrection will not arrive until you fight the Jews; until a Jew will hide behind a tree and the plant will say: “Oh Muslim, servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me. come and kill him”.
        It was Haj Amin Al-Husseini, the Grand Mullah o Jerusalem, who convinced Adolph Hitler to kill all of the Jews, and supplied the Nazis with the 13th Division Waffen SS Haudschar, composed of 20,000 Muslim Bosnians. As a reward, Hitler gave him a castle in the Alps, where he spent the war in safety. Nowadays Muslims say that the Holocaust never happened. Were not for the photos of the concentration camp survivors, that Eisenhower ordered be taken, most of the world wouldn’t believe that such savagery could ever happen, as many doubt the ISIS are really exterminating even little children. No doubt God will reward them accordingly.

    • mortimer says

      Feb 20, 2015 at 12:52 am

      ISLAM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM!

      Islamic logic: A ≠ A !!!

      Yes, you can’t learn Islam by reading the source texts of Islam! Nope.

      The Koran, hadiths and Sira HAVE NOTHING to do with Islam.

  2. traci94 says

    Feb 19, 2015 at 8:07 pm

    What the…???? Unbelievable; that’s all I can say at this point.

  3. David says

    Feb 19, 2015 at 8:08 pm

    Everyone in the ME are semitic. Jew is not a race, it is a tribe. Christians are boycotting Israel to show allegiance with the Palestinian Christians, who are Semitic. That schmuck would call the Christians anti-semitic for going against his cause. He is an idiot. BTW They did it, the Rosenberg’s.

  4. Don McKellar says

    Feb 19, 2015 at 8:15 pm

    When I try the link it says: PAGE NOT FOUND.

    • Don McKellar says

      Feb 19, 2015 at 8:16 pm

      Errror 404

    • Mirren10 says

      Feb 19, 2015 at 8:23 pm

      http://www.salon.com/2015/02/19/the_atlantics_big_islam_lie_what_muslims_really_believe_about_isis/

      Most of the comments are the usual useful idiots eagerly gulping down the ‘muslims are victims of the wicked West’ nonsense, but there are a few showing a bit of commonsense.

  5. Kasey says

    Feb 19, 2015 at 8:25 pm

    IT IS AN ABSOLUTE MISTAKE TO EVER REFER TO ISLAM AS A RELIGION…..it definitely is not! It is an ideology with a small religious component within it. The whole World must wake up to that fact and act accordingly, putting it into the same category as Nazism and Communism. Until this is done it will still hide behind the facade of religious freedom rights.

    • mortimer says

      Feb 19, 2015 at 10:13 pm

      Disagree. It is both a religion and fascist political system. A platypus is a mammal and a bird.

      • mortimer says

        Feb 19, 2015 at 10:17 pm

        The Islamic text is composed of 14% Allah and 86% Mohammed. The conclusion is obvious. Islam is mostly political. The irony is that 15% of Muslims are highly pious and they are the ones who are the most political in their support for jihad, the main political action of Islam.

      • Salome says

        Feb 19, 2015 at 11:04 pm

        A platypus is not a bird. Otherwise I agree.

      • mortimer says

        Feb 20, 2015 at 1:05 am

        PLATYPUS NOT A BIRD? DNA SAYS ‘part bird’
        http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/science/genetics/2008-05-08-platypus-genetic-map_N.htm
        Gene map proves platypus is part bird, mammal and reptile

        Quotes: “Australia’s unique duck-billed platypus is part bird, part reptile and part mammal according to its gene map.”

        “Jenny Graves, an Australian National University genomics who wrote the paper (on platypus DNA) said the research contained some surprises, such as the conclusion that genes which determine sex in a platypus are similar to those of a bird, not a mammal.”

        • Joseph says

          Feb 20, 2015 at 1:28 am

          Not to poke at you Mortimer, BUT…….humans share or have about 50% of the same DNA as a banana. Does that make me half a banana?

          Just food for thought, yes the pun was intended

    • jihad3tracker says

      Feb 19, 2015 at 11:13 pm

      Hello Kasey —

      I agree with Mortimer on a VERY important point : the small-percentage — but CRUCIAL — inclusion of religion in the total belief system of Islam.

      Human minds can be persuaded into limitless dedication ( willing to die ) by a nationalist / political ideology.

      But if they are also told that GOD AUTHORED SACRED TEXTS transcribed directly by a prophet, the power of an ideology immensely deepened.

    • gungadin says

      Feb 20, 2015 at 5:20 am

      WELL SAID !!

  6. Wellington says

    Feb 19, 2015 at 8:39 pm

    Oh yeah, over 25,000 documented Islamic terrorist attacks worldwide just since 9/11 have nothing to do with Islam. Nor do the tens of thousands of such intended attacks since that time and thwarted by intelligence and security agencies across the earth. Nor do the many verses in the Koran like “slay the idolater wherever you find him” (9:5), or “fight the unbeliever until all religion is with Allah” (8:39) or “Muslims are the best of peoples” (3:110) or “when you meet the unbelievers strike their neck” (47:4) or “Jews and Christians are the vilest of creatures” (98:6) have anything to do with ISIS. Yep, it can all be reduced to the West’s fault and socio-economic deprivation. Blah, blah, blah.

    My God, how much longer will this Joseph Goebbels rot continue? (N.B., Haroon Moghul, I am indeed directly comparing you to Joseph Goebbels; and, oh btw, he had a PhD.) Only fools will buy the nonsense Moghul is selling. Problem is that there are a lot of fools out there. Personally, I’d start with the sorry excuse for a human being who now occupies the Oval Office. My God, and I say this as a student of the past, never has the world been more upside down than now. At least during WWII and the Cold War the West could identify the enemy. Hell, the West can’t (won’t) even do that now.

    But I will: The enemy is Islam. It is pure spiritual fascism and every Muslim is at least a confused human being. No exception. Many Muslims are evil. Their belief system certainly is. It is an inveterate enemy of liberty——and equality under the law—– and a true Golden Rule for all. I defy anyone to prove me wrong here, incluing this turkey, Moghul.

  7. Rob Crawford says

    Feb 19, 2015 at 8:43 pm

    They cite their scripture; those supposedly opposed to them can’t cite a single passage in opposition to them.

    • pumbar says

      Feb 19, 2015 at 10:47 pm

      they could but they know the ones they quote have been abrogated by the later verses.

      • mortimer says

        Feb 20, 2015 at 1:12 am

        Crawford wrote: they “can’t cite a single passage in opposition to them”

        Disagree. Muslims NORMALLY cite ONLY the ‘conciliatory’ verses written by Mohammed in Mecca when he was politically powerless. They edit the vicious parts out. Most Kafirs don’t know that the Medianan verses (which come later) cancel out ALL the ‘conciliatory’ verses!

        Chapter 9 of the Koran was supposedly last, containing the most vicious and predatory verses. Chapter 9 abrogates and supersedes all previous ‘conciliatory’ verses in the Koran.

  8. Georg says

    Feb 19, 2015 at 8:48 pm

    I made the mistake of, a week ago or so, wondering on here whether Islam was the operative variable in their behavior. I would like to apologize, acknowledge magnitude of Robert’s PERSONAL sacrifice to clarifying this issue, and thank those who “put me in my place”, as the kids say.

    Give ’em hell.

    • mortimer says

      Feb 20, 2015 at 1:40 am

      “operative variable in their behavior”

      Koran 9.111 “Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah , so they kill and are killed. [It is] a true promise [binding] upon Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur’an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah ? So rejoice in your transaction which you have contracted. And it is that which is the great attainment.”

      Muslims ‘sell’ their lives by dying in jihad in exchange for eternal sex and wine.

      • Kingston Lee says

        Feb 20, 2015 at 1:23 pm

        Have you read the context in which Muslims believe this verse was revealed?

  9. all says

    Feb 19, 2015 at 8:52 pm

    The reason why muslims hate cartoons of muhammad –
    https://allperspectives.wordpress.com/2015/02/18/the-emperor-has-no-clothes-the-real-reason-why-muslims-dont-like-cartoons-of-mohammad/

  10. all says

    Feb 19, 2015 at 8:54 pm

    The real reason why muslims do not like cartoons of muhammad

  11. Papa Whiskey says

    Feb 19, 2015 at 9:02 pm

    Good show, Robert. Moghul’s assertions fell like steel plates at a pistol match.

  12. Georg says

    Feb 19, 2015 at 9:08 pm

    This is called “The soft bigotry of low expectations”.

  13. Jay Boo says

    Feb 19, 2015 at 9:10 pm

    The authors at Salon never cease to be amazed at how their research conclusions somehow magically always exactly match their preconceived assumptions.

  14. Bezelel says

    Feb 19, 2015 at 9:39 pm

    Would isis exist if there was no islam?

  15. Mark DeFord Eletion says

    Feb 19, 2015 at 9:49 pm

    “These very different peoples are going through our equivalent of the dark ages, the consequence of centuries of colonialism, occupation, authoritarianism and extremism.”

    Wrongo, wannabe-PHD-boy. Islam, with its five-times-a-day prayers, ritual washing beforehand, and all the other religious time-wasting rot, does not leave much time in the day for its adherents to learn or accomplish anything very useful – unless they can take slaves to do the actual work, plundering and extorting whatever else they need from the kuffar.

    The presence of crude oil under their otherwise barren lands has temporarily supported them, but the oil will run out. When it does, they will have lost their opportunity to spread islam to all of allah’s planet. That may be one of the reasons for the increasingly urgent jihad activity.

  16. Richie says

    Feb 19, 2015 at 10:00 pm

    In the words of Pat Condell, ‘Islam without violence is like an egg free omelette”

  17. mortimer says

    Feb 19, 2015 at 10:09 pm

    Haroon Moghul does not have the authority to declare ISIS in error from Islam. He is not one of the ulema and does not have the ability to write a fatwa to condemn them.

    Haroon Moghul is a writer and apologist, rather than a religious authority.

    In other words, Haroon Moghul’s words about Islam are not authoritative. He speaks for himself not for Islam, unlike Caliph al-Baghdadi who is comment to define Islam.

    • mortimer says

      Feb 20, 2015 at 1:18 am

      “COMPETENT” to define Islam.

  18. mortimer says

    Feb 19, 2015 at 11:01 pm

    Haroon Moghul speaks through his hat without facts. Anecdotes don’t count, Haroon.

    65% of Muslims want a caliphate and strict Sharia…just like ISIS!

    The facts are very suggestive that Muslims mostly LOVE ISIS…they just don’t like the bloody pictures.

  19. GFRF says

    Feb 20, 2015 at 3:32 am

    This administration is pro Islam and antiSemitic
    A communist rag

  20. Know Thy Enemy says

    Feb 20, 2015 at 5:15 am

    Imagine a man, who along with his companions, raped. Enslaved. Maimed. Murdered. Ethnically cleansed. Extorted. Burned. Beheaded. But then imagine this—he didn’t lie (about him being a ‘last prophet’)? Couldn’t lie. Wouldn’t have lied. That’s what Muslims really wants us to believe.

  21. No Fear says

    Feb 20, 2015 at 5:17 am

    Haroon Moghul says :

    Imagine a group of people who rape. Enslave. Maim. Murder. Ethnically cleanse. Extort. Burn. Behead. But then imagine this—they don’t lie? Can’t lie. Won’t lie. That’s what Graeme Wood’s recent Atlantic essay, “What ISIS Really Wants,” really wants us to believe.

    I say:

    What Haroon says above applies perfectly to the “prophet” Mohammed as well as ISIS.

  22. BC says

    Feb 20, 2015 at 6:36 am

    I expect Moghul does not like facts but they say otherwise, there have been polls which show that support for IS exists throughout the Islamic world and even among Western Muslims, and that support is quite high. Note that his b name is taken from the Islamic conquerors of India

  23. Lia Wissing says

    Feb 20, 2015 at 6:38 am

    I can see why the man says what he says, though. Examining islamic writings/traditions may tell us too much …

  24. Angemon says

    Feb 20, 2015 at 6:39 am

    These very different peoples are going through our equivalent of the dark ages, the consequence of centuries of colonialism, occupation, authoritarianism and extremism.

    Wrong. Islam went through several dark-ages – they tend to follow periods of greater devotion to islam.

  25. Ron Barak says

    Feb 20, 2015 at 8:35 am

    Robert, maybe you could be assisted by a proofreader so errata like the following won’t occur?

    attempting to shout down and all who dare raise

    • Robert Spencer says

      Feb 20, 2015 at 9:20 am

      Thanks, I will fix it. I think all in all my record on this kind of thing is fairly good — post after post error free. But if you want to donate the funds to employ a proofreader, feel free.

      • Ringgo1 says

        Feb 20, 2015 at 9:46 am

        Touche! Well put, Robert. Shabbat Shalom.

  26. FredvanH says

    Feb 20, 2015 at 11:55 am

    Apparently, every single individual from specific ethnic backgrounds, from “high” to “low” throughout the social spectrum, is a muslim, and wants to be an apologist for islam. In my book, there’s one word that epitomizes them: degenerates.

    • M S case says

      Feb 20, 2015 at 5:10 pm

      The buffoons come to America, use our educational systems then use what they have learned to rant and rave

  27. Jeff says

    Feb 20, 2015 at 12:01 pm

    Muslims who think ISIS isn’t Islamic are the ones committing apostasy.

    • sheik yer'mami says

      Feb 20, 2015 at 2:44 pm

      Its not that simple.

      As long as his denial helps to pull the Islamic wool over clueless infidel eyes and ears it advances Islam, and that is what Haroon does.

      He is just another Islamo-agitprop.

      • gravenimage says

        Feb 20, 2015 at 10:43 pm

        That’s right, Sheik—this isn’t a genuine if ignorant belief that the values of Islam are contrary to the actions of the Islamic State, but just Taqiyya intended to lure the credulous Kuffar at Salon into a false sense of security that Islam is not a threat to us.

        This is, in fact, very common.

  28. Bill C says

    Feb 20, 2015 at 1:17 pm

    Over half of the Qur’an teaches Muslims how to control non-Muslims and coerce them to convert to Islam. The second to last Surah proclaimed is At-Tawbah or Repentance it declares that Islam must be triumphant over all other religions (among them Qur’an 9:15, 9:11). 1,950s Muslim apologist, Sayyid Qutb, describes Islam as being both politically and militarily expansionist from its very beginning, so that Allah’s justice could rule the world, if Islam does not control a society, then injustice dominates it. In November 2,014 Pakistani Muslim leader, Munawar Hasan, Only “culture of jihad” can solve society’s problems, “Jihad should replace democracy to overcome challenges” and no non-Muslim speech. The Fascists had Aryans as their master race and the Muslims have Islam as their master faith.

    Many Christian refugees from Islamic countries are worried that what has and is happening in their homeland is now beginning in the West. Seventy percent of the Christian lands were conquered when the Christian Crusaders, 1,096 – 1,291 AD, slowed the advance. After 1,050 yrs., the Muslim western conquests were finally stopped on September 11, 1,683 AD, in Austria. Today worldwide 96% of victims of Islamic terrorists are Muslims ‘who do not follow the correct path’. Over 70% of the ongoing military conflicts involve Muslims. Muslims make more than 85% of the terrorist attacks. Four Sunni Muslim groups were responsible for 66% of the 17,958 terror killings in 2,013 (CNSNews.com). The Western World finished separating its governments from religion in the 1,800s AD. Today violence among or between Jewish or Christian sects or toward other religious or cultural groups is very rare or non-existent. Muslim countries also need to separate religion from their governments. Doing so would fundamentally change the Islamic religion.

  29. Kingston Lee says

    Feb 20, 2015 at 1:31 pm

    Americans claim we are believers of democracy. That is our supposed “religion.” That’s how we justify our excursions into countries where we have no business. Still, do we really care about democracy? Not according to our friendship with the Saudi monarchy.

    ISIS claim they are believers in Islam. That is their supposed “religion.” That’s how they justify their excursions into countries where they have no business. Still, do they really care about Islam? Not according to their killing of…uh…Muslims.

    Be able to criticize your own opinion with the same fervor you criticize another’s opinion. If you can’t do that, perhaps you should refrain from speaking.

    • Demsci says

      Feb 20, 2015 at 11:05 pm

      //”Be able to criticize your own opinion with the same fervor you criticize another’s opinion”//

      Well said, now this is the hallmark of contemporary Western civilization, at least since the time of Franz Boaz, just before WWII. And it has delivered us “Political Correctness”.

      If you can’t do that, perhaps you should refrain from speaking.”//
      This on the other hand is typical “sensoring”. As long as all have the right to speak out, and answer “bad speech” with “good speech”, it is not a problem if people speak out all they want, even if they are, according to others, “not informed enough”. Please let all speak, don’t censor on “bad reasons to censor”.

      In a historical and worldwide context we can explain our (Western) admittedly interventions in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya. democracies really wanted to expand democracy by ousting brutal dictators. the brutal dictators were warned, but still chose wrong. and it is measuring with double standards if people deny the responsibility of the dictators opposed to the West. One charge to them could be: Why did you pull the tail of the Tiger (America) if you could have known the Tiger would lash out? It beggars belief that people devote so much energy to criticize the tiger and so little to criticizing the dictators who defied it, and pulled it’s tail? Were the dictators animals? Children? No, they were accountable humans!

    • Demsci says

      Feb 20, 2015 at 11:13 pm

      //”Not according to our friendship with the Saudi monarchy.”//

      That is about protecting the economy. The Saudis control so much oil, inhabitants of so many countries can’t prosper without.

      Why don’t you present the real choice of the West; Either condone the low-life Saudi’s, thereby ensuring a reasonably good and stable life to it’s own citizens, or putting that in jeopardy by intervening in a country with an Islamic population, totally incapable of practicing Democracy?

      By now, our interventions taught us, that some populations will erupt partly into jihadists if we try to impose democracy on them. But YOU, you hold against the West “INTERVENING” AND “NOT INTERVENING’. It shows your huge prejudice, or perhaps perfectionism.

    • gravenimage says

      Feb 20, 2015 at 11:18 pm

      Meretricious false moral equivalence from Kingston Lee:

      Americans claim we are believers of democracy. That is our supposed “religion.”
      ……………………………………

      Democracy is not a “religion”. And most faiths are quite compatible with democracy. One can believe in democracy and Christianity, or Judaism, or Hinduism, or Buddhism—most faiths, or none. Not so with Islam, though.

      More:

      That’s how we justify our excursions into countries where we have no business.
      ……………………………………

      Certainly, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have been handled very badly, and the mission has become quite muddled with hopeless attempts at “nation building”. Still, we went into Afghanistan as a *response* to being attacked. Apparently Kingston Lee believes that we have “no business” defending ourselves against Jihad attacks.

      More:

      Still, do we really care about democracy? Not according to our friendship with the Saudi monarchy.
      ……………………………………

      Our considering Saudi Arabia an “ally” is profoundly foolish—especially given the fact that Saudi Arabia actively funds Jihad terror all over the world, including providing most of the 9/11 Jihadists.

      But notice that this apologist for savagery has no actual criticism of the barbarism of Saudi Arabia—just of our shortcomings in regarding them as allies. This sort of attack on the West is *very* common.

      More:

      ISIS claim they are believers in Islam. That is their supposed “religion.” That’s how they justify their excursions into countries where they have no business. Still, do they really care about Islam? Not according to their killing of…uh…Muslims.
      ……………………………………

      Note that Kingston Lee frames the actions of the Islamic State in exactly the same manner as he does those of the US—as though the US were engaged in enslaving religious minorities and beheading journalists and aid workers.

      And notice, further, his deliberate moral association of democracy with Islam—as though they were both fine ideals that are simply not being lived up to.

      But this is false—everything the Islamic State has done is *exactly* on the basis of the texts and tenets of Islam and the model of the violent “Prophet”.

      As for pious Muslims killing other Muslims, there is *nothing* un-Islamic about this. There is, in fact, an Islamic doctrine—that of Takfir—which deems Muslims who are “heretics”, like minority Shia; or “apostates”, who are regarded as “insufficiently Islamic”—to be regarded as virtual Infidels, and thus fair game for any Islamic savagery, including murder.

      More:

      Be able to criticize your own opinion with the same fervor you criticize another’s opinion. If you can’t do that, perhaps you should refrain from speaking.
      ……………………………………

      The idea that one need criticize one’s own opinion—i.e, one’s deeply held beliefs—is very odd, and is not something that *anyone* does. It would, in fact, mean that one actually held no genuine opinions at all. For us, it would mean that if we were “even handed” that we would be just as apt to excoriate democracy and freedom as we would tyranny and savagery.

      I presume, though, that Kingston Lee meant that it is necessary that those here criticize the shortcomings of the West.

      Firstly, the idea that any opinions are morally invalidated if the speaker does not also engage in self criticism is ludicrous. But he wants to give the idea that those here are incapable of criticizing the West, and just criticize Islam because it is “the other”.

      But this is false. The West in general, and those at Jihad Watch in particular, engage in self-reflection and self-criticism all the time. If one reads through stories here, one will find criticism of Western leaders, of the handling of various issues, and the question of whether any given action lives up to our highest ideals.

      Moreover, people here engage in spirited—but always civilized—debates on just those topics. Would that this were possible under Islam…

  30. Cassandra says

    Feb 20, 2015 at 8:18 pm

    Poor Kingston Lee, he doesn’t even know his own country is a republic, not a democracy. Are you AFRICAN-American, Mr Lee?

  31. gerard says

    Feb 20, 2015 at 8:26 pm

    “Imagine a group of people who rape. Enslave. Maim. Murder. Ethnically cleanse. Extort. Burn. Behead.”
    Imagine Islam.

  32. wayne johnson says

    Feb 20, 2015 at 9:47 pm

    with regard to where to look no further then your president they created isis the us and the uk did this in order to go into Syria their elite bosses the corporations want permanent wars while they are in their underground bunkers

  33. dlbrand says

    Feb 21, 2015 at 3:29 am

    The author of the article states, “If you want to know why ISIS exists, don’t bother searching Islamic texts, or examining Islamic traditions….”

    Absolutely not. Because if one did, one would find, deed for deed, why IS does what it does, and why IS exists.

    The author asserted on the ummah, concerning IS, “Among an incredibly diverse, astonishingly fractured and contentious community, ISIS is anathema.”

    IS very well may be anathema to Muhammad’s ummah, but if they are, then so also would be their “prophet,” his companions, and the book and teachings he brought, because IS is living them out, to the letter, as all good Muslims are commanded to do.

    He foolishly asserts, “It’s beyond a stretch to argue that ISIS represents Islam, is grounded in Islam, or justified by Islam”; because it is easily provable, as for the IS high profile deeds, they live guided by the “sacred texts” of Islam, deed for said deed.

    The author asserts, “It [IS] might look similar, but it is anything but. ISIS is a monster in Islamic garb.”

    Wrong, IS is Islam in action. In brief.

    Robert then states, amongst other assertions and denouncements, Moghul denounced “the American intervention in Iraq for the rise of the Islamic State.”

    There, just as Robert did, I agree with Moghul. Per RS: “I agree with Moghul that the Iraq war was ill-advised and poorly executed, and has resulted in disaster for everyone involved. And there is no doubt that in many ways it gave rise to the Islamic State.”

    No doubt about that. To be sure. And likewise no doubt, for those of us who do study the Islamic “sacred texts,” IS is Islam enacted, to the letter.

  34. DP111 says

    Feb 21, 2015 at 6:42 am

    Islam is a mental illness, as is apparent by its texts and the actions, violent or otherwise, of those who believe in it.

    If one excepts this proposition, then how do we treat mental illness? Waging war, as we have done for the last decade or so, is fine, but it must have the goal of treating those who have been captured in the field.

    For enemy combataents within the gates, re-education institutions should be set up. There are some efforts already to setup such institutions for ISIS supporters returning to Europe. These institutions, have Orwellian names, such as “radicalisation treatment” centres Fine, the name does not matter, or for that matter its success. What is important is that Islam begins to be seen worldwide as a mental disability problem. Hopefully, after several decades, we will start see the beginning of the end.

  35. Jon says

    Feb 21, 2015 at 12:36 pm

    Its plain to see that most of the commentors on the article vehemently disagree with Haroon. The question is how come Salon is so out of touch with the opinions of its readers.

    • Ron Barak says

      Feb 22, 2015 at 2:43 am

      @Jon
      While I consider myself firmly within “most of the commentors” you mentioned, human nature is such that it’s more likely that people who feel strongly (read – disagree) about an issue would take the time to write a reply. Thus, you cannot assume that the distribution of opinions in the replies faithfully represents the readership.

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