Immigration and Border Protection Minister Peter Dutton said: “What we have here are two teenagers who have been intercepted on their way to a potentially very dangerous situation. As a result of this interception, a Sydney family remains together. This highlights afresh the need to work within communities and with parents to disrupt attempts to brainwash our young people.”
Question for you, Mr. Dutton: what if the communities and parents are the one who are brainwashing our young people? Then what? Or is asking that question “Islamophobic”?
“Teen jihadi wannabes caught at Sydney airport by counter-terrorism squad and sent home,” by Samantha Maiden, The Sunday Telegraph, March 8, 2015 (thanks to Anne Crockett):
TWO brothers aged 15 and 16 suspected of trying to leave Australia to fight in the Middle East were detained at Sydney Airport by counter-terrorism officials before being taken home by their mum.
Amid fears that Islamic State is recruiting Aussie teenagers as “cannon fodder’’, authorities are confident they have saved the two Sydney teens from a potentially deadly adventure.
Immigration and Border Protection Minister Peter Dutton revealed two teenagers were stopped on Friday night.
They had booked return tickets to an undisclosed location in the Middle East. But authorities will allege that fears were raised over their travel plans after their bags were searched.
After being detained at the airport for several hours they were allowed to return home with their parents.
Mr Dutton said the boys had aroused the suspicion of “two alert Customs and Border Protection officers” who referred them to the terrorism unit.
“What we have here are two teenagers who have been intercepted on their way to a potentially very dangerous situation,” Mr Dutton said.
“As a result of this interception, a Sydney family remains together.
“This highlights afresh the need to work within communities and with parents to disrupt attempts to brainwash our young people.
“It is yet another reminder of the need for parents to remain vigilant against this type of threat.
“This event also showcases the critical work of Australian Customs and Border Protection officers operating around the clock at our borders to prevent people travelling in this way.”
Mr Dutton said the spate of recent cases underlined the need for parliament to pass new laws to establish a new Australian border force to collect biometric data at airport and sea ports.
Last June, Sydney teenager Abdullah Elmir, 17, fled Australia with a 16-year-old friend. Elmir later resurfaced in an Islamic State propaganda video warning he would fight until the Islamic State flag was flying at Buckingham Palace and the White House.
In the video he said: “To the leaders, to Obama, to Tony Abbott I say this: these weapons that we have, these soldiers, we will not stop fighting, we will not put down our weapons until we reach your lands.’’…
Maria says
Sent home? Deport them and their families. They are a risk to the country.
Lia Wissing says
Poor dear Mr Dutton looks so very young – perhaps he doesn’t quite grasp what is going on?
Michelle Wayne says
Not all muslims please,long time ago when king Farouk of Egypt who was a very moderate Muslim and wearing burka and so on was not a forced issue and girls attended universities wearing modern clothes until he was forced by the fanatics to be deposed, many Egyptians mostly the Intelligent ones with education and Egypt at that time was famous for it as 5 languages where spoken in Egypt at that time many have left the country and emigrated all over the world including Australia about 40-50 years ago, they have accepted the policy of the country the live in adjusted like every other emigrant, today they live modern life they are educated, women to hardly any of them they cover they hair and have modernised they religion and mostly kip away from the troublemakers.
cs says
Ahnnnn, heart warming. Cute stories. Like two boys led ashtray. Ownnnn.
Idiotic. Dumbasses. Suicidal.
Ed says
Why not let them go and make sure they never come back?
TheBuffster says
That’s better than sending them back to their homes, where they will be free to carry out their jihadi dreams at will here in Australia. But letting them go fight jihad is just adding manpower to terrorize victims overseas.
A better plan would be to create a law that is posted where no one can miss it and is shown repeatedly in TV and radio public service messages that *anyone* – no matter whether adult or teen – found traveling to fight for a terrorist organization will go to a special prison where they will be allowed no contact with other Muslims and will face severe penalties if found proselytizing to non-Muslims. And there will be audio lectures by Robert Spencer, David Wood, Rev. Dr. Mark Durie, etc., played in their cells for several hours every day.
Phil says
Why stop them? Let them go. But prevent them from ever coming back – and keep their extended families and acquaintances under surveillance.
And did anyone listen to the media’s favourite apologist for the Dar al-Islam, Keysar Trad waffle on about this? A man who thinks “The criminal dregs of white society colonised this country and…the descendents of these criminal dregs tell us that they are better than us” has no place in a public discussion.
TheBuffster says
“A man who thinks ‘The criminal dregs of white society colonised this country and…the descendents of these criminal dregs tell us that they are better than us’ has no place in a public discussion.”
I’m glad Keysar Trad speaks his small and bigoted mind so openly. The idea that what one’s ancestors were and what they did has anything to do with one’s own moral character is completely unjust. It’s stupid and immoral to judge a person not on his individual character, but on that of his ancestors, or even on his parents and siblings. Such thinking is no different than judging a person’s moral character based on his race.
Judging a person on his moral standards and what he actually says and *does*, himself – especially on what he actually does – is the reasonable way to judge who is trustworthy and safe to deal with.
Of course, if a whole group of people claims to believe in a religion that includes orders to make war on unbelievers until they convert or submit or are dead, and if that’s not merely in the past but has a portion of that group actually carrying out that aim, and if others of that religion have been immigrating in large numbers and yet refusing to integrate while some of their children have been blowing themselves up in terror attacks or going to join the Holy War, it’s not unreasonable to be *suspicious* of anyone who claims to hold to that religion, that body of guiding *ideas*
That is not to say that everyone who calls himself a “Muslim” buys the whole political/religious package of Islam. It doesn’t mean that all Muslims want to live under Sharia and force it on everyone else, or that they all, if forced by creeping Sharia and the jihad to choose, would choose to remain Muslims and fight to undermine the freedom they’ve enjoyed in the West.
Some people do not take the more irrational of their religion’s beliefs seriously and if circumstances force them to choose would finally apostasize. It can take time for a person to get to the point where he’s ready to shrug off his religion and possibly the family that goes with it (although Nonie Darwish shrugged off Islam and took her husband and kids with her).
But when someone claims to be a member of such a religion, those who aren’t members have a solid reason to be wary since a religion, unlike a race, is a body of ideas and moral commands. And if some of those commands include subduing unbelievers, well, you as an unbeliever shouldn’t just pretend that command isn’t there. You have to wonder just what part of that religion that person accepts and what part, if any, he rejects.
It’s not what his ancestors believed and did that makes us concerned about his own character, but the religion he claims to believe in and what its texts say and what his co-religionists are saying and doing today around the world that makes us wary of what he might do. Under such circumstances it’s not unreasonable to require him to demonstrate how *he* understands the verses and the hadiths that the jihadists use to cause mayhem around the world.
Mirren10 says
TheBuffster says:
*anyone* – no matter whether adult or teen – found traveling to fight for a terrorist organization will go to a special prison where they will be allowed no contact with other Muslims and will face severe penalties if found proselytizing to non-Muslims. And there will be audio lectures by Robert Spencer, David Wood, Rev. Dr. Mark Durie, etc., played in their cells for several hours every day”
Agreed.
Also, no koran, no prayer rug, and no halal meals. The only reading material available would be Western philosophies.
Michelle Wayne says
sounds fantastic !! I’m all for it !!
Wellington says
“This highlights afresh the need to work within communities and with parents to disrupt attempts to brainwash our young people.”
If you’re a young Muslim, ipso facto, you’ve already been brainwashed.
cliffface says
It is not just young muslims who are brainwashed now is it wellington.
Humans are not born stupid they are taught stupid.
All parents that expose their children to religious teachings could be accused of brainwashing their child.
Look around this planet and add what we are learning about our galaxy and most of the answers we seek are right before our eyes.
Yet humans continue to rely on old ideologies that cannot even be confidently translated for answers.
History reveals many cultures that gave their all to please their gods yet all fell by the wayside at some point in time.
Perhaps you hold faith in Jesus ? just as a tribesman in Africa or New Guinea holds faith in the talisman around his neck.
None can say I am right and you are wrong and then provide solid evidence or proof of their claims that a God or creator exists.
No bible or koran can prove such existence except as a record that the author believed a creator or God to existed.
Keep your faith as that is your choice but if humanity does not start thinking more factually and less fictionally then the weapons we currently posses will ensure our history as a species is nearing it’s end.
If there is a higher being or creator watching then i imagine they would say your demise is of your own making and it serves you right.
You could hardly claim to be offended if I call you stupid if you willingly embrace what the non brainwashed consider to be stupid.
The last sentence is not personally directed at you Wellington so please do not be offended by my comment.
Some believe camel piss is medicinal and others know it is not that is the point I am trying to make.
Gray says
Perhaps what is really stupid is the superior, sneering Atheistic assumption that all ‘religions’ are the same, and morally equivalent. They aren’t, and therein lies the problem. Christianity allows atheists the luxury of their unbelief. Islam doesn’t.
Mo says
@ Gray
“Perhaps what is really stupid is the superior, sneering Atheistic assumption that all ‘religions’ are the same, and morally equivalent. They aren’t, and therein lies the problem. Christianity allows atheists the luxury of their unbelief. Islam doesn’t.”
Absolutely right.
What’s most insufferable about people like this is that here we are more than a decade after 9/11, and anti-theists like this are STILL claiming all religions are more or less the same, while STILL having not read the Koran! (Or any other religious text, I’m sure.)
Wellington says
At the very least, clifface, you are fighting a fight that does not need at this time to be fought. It is necessary to have as broad of a coalition as possible to insure against Islam, the only major faith which is also a totalitarian creed, succeeding in imposing its freedom-crushing designs on all of us——-“us” here being Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Taoists, agnostics, atheists, etc. It is highly unwise to split a coalition while fighting a common enemy by insulting certain members of that coalition, which is exactly what you have done. BTW, as many know here at JW, I am not religious in the least but I know that Christians and Jews, Buddhists and HIndus, et al., do not want to harm me in this world for believing as I do. Only Muzzies do.
At most, you have treated your assumption as an axiom and, ironically, it requires belief as well, Just as no one can prove that God exists, so can no one prove that God doesn’t. Attempting to understand the cosmos by way of religion has its merits, as do the other two ways man has to do this, those being philosophy and science. Be on your guard against making a religion out of not having one, which I suspect you have already done. In short, wise up and remember above all this: one fight at a time.
cliffface says
Wise words Wellington and thank you for taking the time to remind me that I am no different in passing judgement than those I myself have judged.
I am not confident that the collective you list will not seek to empower themselves and force their view upon me given half a chance but do agree all see a common enemy at this point in time.
I am not against there being a creator or God I am just upset that the basic rules of life have been stretched into countless volumes of rules that cloud the reality that surrounds us.
All religions have their hardliners that believe they have earned the right to not only judge me but also punish me if I do not conform.
We waste so much effort and innocent lives on conflict usually driven by the greed of a few that I see fault in all that claim to offer salvation if I just sign up.
We live in heaven jannah paradise or whatever you may wish to believe and yet we are flat out trying to turn it into hell.
There is an event that is set to happen in 2017 that will force everybody to accept that what they believe is true was corrupted in translation.
What is written in scriptures is not so much wrong as just misread.
The koran is merely a marketing tool and although I know little of the Jews I do know that they were chosen because of their superior and more advanced intelligence at the time.
In short come 2017 Israel will be surrounded by enemies and an unseen force will destroy those enemies forcing everyone to accept that our efforts need to be focused on advancement of our abilities to control our emotions of hate revenge and greed.
We are currently the only species anywhere that will happily kill our own or other species without a second thought.
I would happily give a kidney to a stranger if it would save a life just as I would happily take the life of a stranger I thought was a threat to myself or my family.
I am no more correct than those I claim are wrong and I accept my failings.
2017 will be hard for all of us to accept but we must be prepared to take the next step in our evolution.
And yes I do have hard solid not made by man evidence of my claims of 2017 but to share it with the world would see me killed by all those enjoying the power their greed brings them.
Now if Robert or Pamela were in my area then 10 minutes over a coffee could be a life changing experience that they have earned.
Again thanks for the help Wellington as if you knew what I know you too would need sound advice to maintain direction.
Jax Tolmen says
Ah. You would be killed if you shared information about a specific year, because reasons. Wouldn’t hinting that you know what’s going on in 2017 mean that you’re giving away that you know.
Oh damn, now they know that you know. You might want to run for it buddy.
Mirren10 says
Crikey !
I replied to clifface under the assumption he/she was rational ! Instead, we have a right nutter. 🙂
Mirren10 says
Ah, now I see. cliffface believes in *this*:
http://www.escapeallthesethings.com/daniels-timeline-2017.htm
Apparently Christ is due to descend on Jerusalem in 2017. I don’t know why he/she is making such dark hints about it, it’s all over the net; took me two minutes to google. 🙂
Mirren10 says
”Anyway. My father passed away yesterday, Jan.”
Oh, Mr Jihadski, I am *so* sorry. Please accept my deepest condolences. My thoughts are with you. Lots of hugs. XO.
Wellington says
My condolences too, Philip. May there be many cherished memories of your father which will help sustain you in the weeks, months and years to come. Take good care, PJ.
TheBuffster says
“All parents that expose their children to religious teachings could be accused of brainwashing their child.”
Well, no. Brainwashing is not merely “exposing” someone, including children, to a religion or ideology. Brainwashing requires isolating a person as much as possible from contact with anyone or anything that might raise doubts in the mind of the brainwashee. Brainwashing is a technique that makes it close to impossible to escape from the belief system of the brainwashers, unless the intended victim is super-independent of mind and socially courageous.
While some “Christian” parents do set up a kind of isolating brainwashing regime, it does not include a warning that those who leave the religion should be killed or beaten, at least such a warning would be rare and not approved by the religion itself. And the religion itself does not tell its followers that they should invade the lands of non-believers and force non-believers to either convert to Christianity, submit to Christian authority and pay a special tax, or die.
As an atheist, I don’t feel afraid of Christians or worry that one of them may blow himself up while sitting next to my husband and I at our favourite café. I have Christian friends. I have former Muslim friends. I have a few “secular” Muslim acquaintances – although I’m not 100% sure they couldn’t be pressured by family to become more religious and political over time.
If you want to protect yourself and all freedom-loving people from the onslaught of a liberty-hating religion with hundreds of thousands of jihadis and millions of supporters of jihad, then this is not the place to argue your case against religion per se. This is the place to fight against the ONE religion that is trying to extinguish all liberty, the religion that promotes submission and slavery for the sake of Allah, and would kill all of us, atheists and theists alike (except the Christians might be allowed to just submit in semi-slavery and pay a special tax, but you and I would have to die, I’m afraid. Well, that might be a mercy, given the alternative).
If Christians want to brainwash their kids to love their enemies and annoy the unbelievers with anti-evolution pamphlets, I can handle that. I can argue with a fundamentalist Christian, joke with him, even make fun of him, and I don’t need to worry about my safety.
I don’t feel safe doing that with a Muslim.
That’s the difference that matters.
TheBuffster says
Oops. That should have been “my husband and me.”
PRODOS says
Greetings.
cliffface writes: “Look around this planet and add what we are learning about our galaxy and most of the answers we seek are right before our eyes.”
I presume this is a reference to science, the scientific method, observation, and reasoning.
Even if it’s true that MOST of the answers we seek are “right before our eyes”, religions and ideologies tend to be for the other stuff. That which is not covered by that “most”.
What does science say about: Is the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness proper or improper?
What does science say about: If I cause others to suffer, does it really matter?
Many scientists and Men of Reason today promote the Big Bang Theory. Personally, I think it is nonsensical. Some Christians even argue that Big Bang somehow proves the existence of God. Which is even more ridiculous — and unnecessary and un-Christian.
Nevertheless, what moral or spiritual guidance does Big Bang offer? What moral or spiritual conclusions can we draw from it? I don’t see any.
That’s not to say that moral questions don’t have or can’t have an objective basis. The atheist philosopher/novelist, Ayn Rand had some interesting things to say about that.
cliffface writes: “Yet humans continue to rely on old ideologies that cannot even be confidently translated for answers.”
I have this problem with Communism, Nazism, Fascism, Progressivism, Environmentalism, nearly all German philosophy, much French philosophy, and just about everything Obama says.
But I don’t find either Christianity or Judaism to be so mysterious. But that’s just me.
cliffface writes: “History reveals many cultures that gave their all to please their gods yet all fell by the wayside at some point in time.”
The question I ask is: What is it that “pleases” the Christian God and the Jewish God?
Treating others with respect? Free Will? Independence of mind? Pursuit of happiness? Persuasion, rather than coercion? Creative thinking? Respecting dissent and disagreement?
Both Christianity and Judaism seem to be very compatible with all these things.
(Islam is not, never has been, and doesn’t want to be.)
Maybe that’s one reason why Christians and Jews and their ideologies have NOT fallen “by the wayside”.
Indeed, their followers tend, over time (with some rough patches along the way) to build free, prosperous, democratic societies.
And they tend to either tolerate or attract individuals who invent, produce, trade, learn and teach, explore and discover — and thereby improve the quality of life of their fellow man.
That seems to “please their gods”.
It also pleases me.
Mohammed and his mates seem less impressed.
cliffface: “Perhaps you hold faith in Jesus? just as a tribesman in Africa or New Guinea holds faith in the talisman around his neck.”
Yes, there are some silly people who believe in Jesus in that superstitious kind of way.
But “faith in Jesus” doesn’t actually mean believing in him as a magician.
Non-Christians tend to define “faith” as something like “belief, in the absence of evidence”.
But that’s not really how it’s meant in either Christianity or Judaism.
Wellington writes: “Just as no one can prove that God exists, so can no one prove that God doesn’t.”
Well … the onus of proof is on he who asserts the positive. Agreed?
If I claim the existence of something, I can’t expect people to believe me unless I can provide evidence for my claim. Nor should they believe me until they have the evidence. The skeptical position is a reasonable and healthy one.
Wellington says to cliffface: “It is highly unwise to split a coalition while fighting a common enemy by insulting certain members of that coalition, which is exactly what you have done.”
I think, in the context of a forum or general discussion like this here at JihadWatch.org, the comments made by cliffface are fine. Insulting? More like condescending and preachy. Splitting the coalition? An unruly, argumentative “coalition” is a good thing. Rather than “splitting” us, it makes us stronger and robust.
Best Wishes,
PRODOS
Melbourne, Australia
Wellington says
I would argue, PRODOS, that the onus of proof is always on the asserter, whether the assertion proffered by the asserter is a positive or a negative. For example, a militant atheist who emphatically asserts that there is no God bears the onus of proof just as much as does someone who emphatically asserts that there is a God.
Respecting my comment about spliting a coalition, I would contend that an argumentative coalition very possibly is a good thing but I would distingusih true argument from insult. Those who are not religious and inveigh against all religion as something awful while in a coaltiion with many religious people against a common enemy (in this instance, Islam) are not engaging in any kind of appropriate or helpful argument but merely stooping to unnecessary insult.
PRODOS says
Greetings Wellington,
Good points. I agree.
Best Wishes,
PRODOS
Melbourne, Australia
Mirren10 says
cliffface says:
”All parents that expose their children to religious teachings could be accused of brainwashing their child.”
Much of Western morality and law comes from the teachings of Christianity.
Do you consider teaching a child it is wrong to steal, lie, and murder, constitutes ‘brainwashing’ ?
If we follow your statement through to its logical conclusion, then one shouldn’t teach a child **anything** ; their minds should just be left a tabula rasa until the age of eighteen, or twenty-one. I can only begin to imagine what a crop of yahoos would be raised. Of course, such a thing would be impossible to do !
However, I would agree that teaching a child *islam* does indeed constitute brainwashing, since one of the most evil tenets of islam is a prohibition on critical thought. Christianity, on the other hand, *encourages* critical thought.
PRODOS says
Mirren10: “However, I would agree that teaching a child *islam* does indeed constitute brainwashing, since one of the most evil tenets of islam is a prohibition on critical thought. Christianity, on the other hand, *encourages* critical thought.”
I agree.
The Christian ideas of “Love” and “Logos” are very conducive to freedom and free thinking.
The Islamic ideas of “Submission” and “Jihad” are not.
Michelle Wayne says
In many ways you are right.
Peter Buckley says
If you read the “Comments” section on stories like this, you get an idea of what the overwhelming majority think. On this story, I noted this comment from “Janette”:
“Can someone please tell me why our Govt is not listening to us? We are yelling it from the rooftops! Get these people out of our country for good. If they want to go over to fight, let them, cancel their passports, never to return! Why the hell we stop them is beyond me!”
Precisely. When you are ill, and your body is doing its best to rid itself of the virus, the one thing you DON’T is go out of your way to keep the virus inside. Western governments please note, and allow the virus to leave the body……..
cliffface says
So peter you think it is ok to send a couple of little parasites over to infect what is left of the population of Syria which by the way are not only isis or muslims.
By that same reasoning why try to contain ebola in Africa ?.
The youths in question obviously have no value for others lives so why not just drop them down an old unused mine shaft so they can contemplate their mistake while they starve to death.
Islam has no place in humanity let alone Australia and with such a huge amount of muslims on welfare or cheating the system in Australia they can be clearly identified as parasites and should be eradicated.
But it is a mistake to think exporting the virus will make it go away or somehow be a cure.
You must first find who is hosting and spreading this disease they are inflicted with and eradicate them.
Sydney is infested with carriers so that’s a good place to start the process of dismantling this devastating disease afflicting so many.
TheBuffster says
Eradicate?
Well, I must say rounding up all the Muslims in our midst and “eradicating” them would certainly be a lot easier than concerning ourselves with justice, which is an individual thing, and takes account of the actual character and actions of actual individual human beings.
Why should we worry about our own moral character, anyway? Why should we concern ourselves with justice to actual individuals? Just blanket judge them for being Muslims, or for cheating the system, or for being on welfare, and *eradicate* them.
Very good, Clifface. You have just added fuel to the prejudice of every Christian reading this thread to believe that those who don’t believe in God have no moral compass – that, like the Soviets and the Nazis, we believe that those who *might* pose a threat to us should just be wiped out, without concern for their real character as individuals. Blanket murder. Genocide.
Good-going, there, Clifface.
Take your anti-individualist, indiscriminate Muslim-killing views out of here. You’re contaminating a good cause with your presence.
TheBuffster says
Oops! I didn’t mean to imply in the above post that I think every Christian reading this thread has a prejudice against atheists. I meant that Clifface is giving every Christian reading this thread *who has a prejudice against atheists* – who believes atheists have no moral compass – more fuel for that belief.
I wish this website had an “edit” button for comments.
cliffface says
True I used the word eradicate completely out of context for the point I wished to make.
Eradicate the belief that you can rely on welfare as a means to raise your family with no intention of ever contributing.
Eradicate the teachings that it is ok to bludge off others instead of providing for yourself or your family.
Eradicate the mentality that we see causing destruction of life and property in the middle east and elsewhere.
Should the members of isis and their followers gain control of the caliphate they seek to establish would the average muslim not claim that it was the work of allah and feel compelled to force their view upon us ?
In such an event it is you and I that would face eradication.
Would putting more sugar on the bench satisfy the ants and make them leave or would it attract more ?
I see my error and understand that the individual can change but the ideology will not.
Eradicate the all black head to toe cover required because the male members do not have respect for females.
Eradicate the FGM and child marriages and eradicate the people who are forcing this ideology upon others.
Eradicate or be eradicated because if you have not noticed there are a few hundred million people around the world that agree with what daesh are doing and no shortage of fans in Australia.
So as long as you are pledging allegiance to the same ideology you are just as much a threat in waiting.
Seeing as Christianity is so respected in the middle east I see your point.
I said nothing of genocide or killing all followers I said eradicate the teachers that are feeding the parasitical welfare abuse by a particular group.
But I stand by dropping the jihad wanna be’s down the mine shaft because if they are right then allah will guide them out and if not then at least their wish to murder strangers in another land has not been realised.
I make no claim of being an Atheist and you cannot claim that Christianity does not have a few skeletons in the closet.
If you do not understand what is happening in the world today then that is your problem.
Perhaps a study of the worlds population by age will give you a little insight into what is coming and who is planning on killing who.
Best of luck and I hope your prayers can keep you safe from reality of others well established plans.
I will see you all in 2017 till then enjoy what’s left of paradise.
PRODOS says
TheBuffster replied to cliffface: “Take your anti-individualist, indiscriminate Muslim-killing views out of here. You’re contaminating a good cause with your presence.”
I wonder if you may have misread cliffface’s use of the term “eradicate” — which I grant you, was a bit unclear.
My reading of it is that he was using that term when replying to Peter Buckley who introduced a virus analogy. cliffface seems to simply be continuing with the virus/eradicate metaphor.
If you go from Peter Buckley’s post to cliffface’s, I think you’ll get a different understanding of how the term “eradicate” was used and meant.
I hope I’m correct! 🙂
Best Wishes,
PRODOS
Melbourne, Australia
PRODOS says
Greetings Buffster,
It looks like I’m correct.
cliffface was indeed being metaphorical, since he explains in his follow-up post …
“True I used the word eradicate completely out of context for the point I wished to make.”
TheBuffster says
HI, Clifface.
I’m glad that you did not mean to say that Muslims, or Muslims on welfare, should be eradicated. But when I read this: “Islam has no place in humanity let alone Australia and with such a huge amount of muslims on welfare or cheating the system in Australia they can be clearly identified as parasites and should be eradicated.” – that surely seemed to be saying that Muslims on welfare or cheating the system should be eradicated, which in my vocabulary means “exterminated”.
You said: “I make no claim of being an Atheist and you cannot claim that Christianity does not have a few skeletons in the closet.” Fair enough. But you did say this: “None can say I am right and you are wrong and then provide solid evidence or proof of their claims that a God or creator exists. No bible or koran can prove such existence except as a record that the author believed a creator or God to existed.” That comes close enough for the reader to think you are at least an agnostic, which to me is a type of atheist, since an agnostic doesn’t *believe* in God.
Also, I would never claim Christianity is without closet-skeletons. Although I think they’re pretty much not in the closet, being in the history books and all.
“If you do not understand what is happening in the world today then that is your problem.”
Well, I think I have a pretty good idea of what’s going on in the world, and if you’ve read my other posts in this thread, I think you should be able to tell how concerned I am about the direction things are going. I have no illusions about the doctrine of Islam or the danger its most dedicated followers pose to the rest of us.
But I also understand that religious doctrine is one thing, and human beings interpreting their religious doctrine, picking and choosing and not toeing the doctrinal line is quite another. When it comes to religion, human beings do the “one from column A and one from column B” thing all the time. And then there are the hard-liners who believe fervently in the whole ball of putrid wax. So, as to the Muslims in our midst, I’m for plenty of infiltration and observation of their mosques and Islamic schools, and for nipping sedition in the bud. But otherwise, they should be left to live their lives in peace, so long as they abide by the laws – the secular laws – of the land that protect the individual rights of all.
Clifface, I attacked what you wrote because I thought you were going all Dalek “Exterminate!” on the whole freakin’ Muslim population, or at least the ones on welfare and “cheating the system”.
Robert really doesn’t need that kind of thing on this website. So when I think I see that going on, I’m going to make sure it doesn’t slip by without a smack-down. To me, ignoring “eradication” comments could be taken as tacit agreement. Better to smack and be told I’m mistaken than not to smack at all.
I have to say that your prediction of what’s going to happen in 2017 sounds pretty crackpotty.
“In short come 2017 Israel will be surrounded by enemies and an unseen force will destroy those enemies forcing everyone to accept that our efforts need to be focused on advancement of our abilities to control our emotions of hate revenge and greed.”
An unseen force?
Also, the idea of dropping some effed-up teenagers down a well to starve for trying to go fight jihad sounds sort of like hate and revenge to me, rather than a nice, clean rational rule-of-law sort of justice. Why wait until 2017 to control our emotions of hate and revenge?
Peter Buckley says
“So peter you think it is ok to send a couple of little parasites over to infect what is left of the population of Syria which by the way are not only isis or muslims.”
Syria is already “highly infected”. Are you seriously suggesting it isn’t?
“By that same reasoning why try to contain ebola in Africa ?”
The alternative, which you are suggesting, is to “not contain” it. Have a word with a doctor about that one, and see what he says…
“The youths in question obviously have no value for others lives…”
Again, false. They value the lives of their Islamist and jihadi brothers; they may value the lives of other muslims they can “radicalise”…..
“But it is a mistake to think exporting the virus will make it go away or somehow be a cure.”
The virus is not being “exported”; it is being “returned to its home”… The “exportation” has already happened (to the West).
“You must first find who is hosting and spreading this disease they are inflicted with and eradicate them.”
We already know: The Arabian Peninsula-more specifically Saudi Arabia and Qatar. The spread of the virus has been funded by oil revenues. This however is coming to an end:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/13/business/energy-environment/report-sees-us-as-top-oil-producer-in-5-years.html?_r=0
I maintain that the vast majority of Westerners actually want these delusionals to leave for jihad. They should not be stopped. (Isn’t that an infringement of their “human rights”?).
This majority includes Geert Wilders:
“If you want to go to Syria or Iraq, PLEASE GO, BUT NEVER COME BACK” (4-5 minutes in):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69-nah7rIOc
.
Peter Buckley says
The analogy of Islam to a disease/ virus is well expressed here, along with some good advice on how to get rid of the virus (long-term):
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/WhatToDo.htm
BW022 says
Meanwhile… in a sane world…
“Australia: Teen jihadi wannabes caught at airport and detained.
… The two teens were detained by the police counter-terrorism unit. Police executed warrants and seized all computers, cell phones, a phone records of the family. A lawyer has been appointed for the teens as the parents are undergoing questioning separately. Phone and financial records were seized. Parents were quickly charged with child endangerment and the crown is asking that their passports be seized, pending further investigation into how the teens were able to book the tickets, know people in Syria. Financial investigators are also looking into how the teens were able to purchase airline tickets.”
etc. If only…
Apparently joining a terrorist organization is now on par with petty shoplifting or loitering. Police give you a warning and call your parents to pick you up?
TheBuffster says
That’s the ticket, BW022!
Jay Boo says
Travel light.
Pack a prayer mat, a Qur’an, and a body bag.
What else is needed?
Loretta Pienaar says
DITTO Maria, cs, Ed, Peter, you all. Western, civilized countries must TAKE A STAND!!! Leaders of these countries MUST HEED THE PEOPLE!!!!
No Fear says
Nothing to do with Islam….move on …….
Peggy says
Yep, Muslims have nothing to do with Islam and Islam has nothing to do with Muslims.
I feel offended when they shove this down our throats because they are insulting our intelligence. We should all write to our MPs and tell them exactly that.
Mo says
Sent home?! Let them go, revoke their citizenship, and never allow them back into the country!
Mo says
@ cliffface
“All parents that expose their children to religious teachings could be accused of brainwashing their child.”
Take your “all religions are the same” drivel elsewhere, you anti-theist bigot.
nolongerdhimmi says
And yet, Australia welcomes muslims with open arms, while they do not easily approve Christian asylum seekers’ petitions.
SpiritOf1683 says
Why are we stupid enough as to stop them from leaving. The common sense approach is to let them go, but don’t let them come back.
Vostro says
“As a result of this interception, a Sydney family remains together.” What a heartwarming story. And where did these young vermin get the idea to run off to Syria? Mom, dad? More than likely at the local mosque. Truly amazing that Egypt (of all countries) recently started closing down numerous mosques promoting jihad. This is the model western countries should follow. Infiltrate them, bug them, whatever. Shut down the ones promoting jihad. Allow the others to stay. We are treating the symptoms rather the cause.
gerard says
They were sent home…To Pakistan?
Peggy says
This minister is so stupid to just let them go back home that I fear he is in danger of converting and heading to Iraq or Syria himself.
What is it going to take to get through these stupid politicians that you cannot simply return these savages to their savage parents but you need to deport the entire family. Does he honestly believe that all these radicals did not pick up something from their parents first?
PRCS says
Time for some honesty. Does anyone here really think that dear old mom and dad read the approved ‘moderate’ version of Qur’an? Well, think again–for there is no such thing. There is Qur’an–amputations and all. What did mom and dad teach their children about Islam? What did they tell them about its intolerance, its hatreds and its barbarities? What do the parents themselves think about those ideas? As they are now being questioned by the police, will they be asked such questions? Are they honest about their personal beliefs? Do they believe their own beliefs gave ‘permission’ for their children’s behavior? Did they tell them that the punishment for leaving Islam is death? What did they tell them when question’s arose concerning Islam’s misogyny versus Australian law? What will they say to journalists about all of this? Will they admit what Islam really teaches? Or will they pretend that they are ashamed of their children’s behavior? Will they claim that ISIS is “unIslamic”? Time to ask many, many questions of mom, dad, and their two children about Islam–as they understand it. I note that the parents are being questioned separately from the boys. Finally, some common sense. What excuses will Western ‘leaders’ make when they learn what mom, dad, and their children really believe about Islam?
Joe Shmo says
“Mr Dutton said the spate of recent cases underlined the need for parliament to pass new laws to establish a new Australian border force to collect biometric data at airport and sea ports.”
More stupid and restrictive laws to punish and restrict people who love freedom and want to live in a civilised society when the problem and solution is RIGHT there.