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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Middle East Quarterly: Robert Spencer reviews Kecia Ali’s “The Lives of Muhammad”

Mar 27, 2015 12:00 pm By Robert Spencer

Kecia AliMore of the politically correct obfuscation that academics pump out by the gallon these days. “The Lives of Muhammad by Kecia Ali, Reviewed by Robert Spencer,” Middle East Quarterly, Spring 2015:

Ali’s work evaluates and compares biographies of Muhammad, ancient and modern, favorable and unfavorable, arguing that the emphases of these life histories reflect the concerns of the age in which they were written. Thus non-Muslim, seventeenth-century writers denounce Muhammad as a false prophet while twenty-first century authors focus on his intolerance. Meanwhile, contemporary Muslims hail him as the ideal businessman or consummate CEO—concepts that would never have occurred to earlier hagiographers.

For example, Ali shows how some of the most notable controversies that swirl around Muhammad in the modern era—particularly the question of Aisha’s age at the time of her marriage to the prophet—did not even trouble those who earlier wrote negatively about him. These previous critics excoriated Muhammad for his lust or his dynastic scheming in marrying the daughters of all of his most important and powerful followers, but it was not until contemporary times that writers were troubled by what can be seen as pedophilia or, perhaps more importantly, whether his example encourages pedophilia and child marriage in the Muslim world today.

However, Ali’s book is guilty of a grave defect: She is generally disdainful of biographies that are critical of Muhammad while dismissing legitimate concerns about the examples that stories about him set for contemporary Muslims. Her chief complaint, for example, about this author’s own biography, The Truth about Muhammad,[1] is that while it provides “reasonably accurate information,” it is “framed and interpreted in relentlessly negative ways.” Conversely, she characterizes authors of positive biographies such as Karen Armstrong[2] and Tariq Ramadan[3] as “public intellectuals”; this author, on the other hand, is described as a “professional polemicist” and the “grand pooh-bah of the legion of American Islamophobes.”

Similarly, Ali’s use of the propaganda neologism “Islamophobe” to tar Muhammad’s critics mars the academic value of her work. Her preference for admirers of Muhammad frequently clouds her ability to evaluate the data. Writing of Armstrong’s Muhammad: A Biography of the Prophet,[4] Ali tells the reader that the author “describes Muhammad’s actions, contextualizing them but without exculpating him.” Without exculpating him? Her book includes the fanciful claim that “Muhammad eventually abjured violence and pursued a daring, inspired policy of nonviolence that was worthy of Gandhi,” an assertion with no basis in Islamic texts.

The premise of The Lives of Muhammad is intriguing, and it contains a good deal of useful information. It is, however, marred by the author’s failure to take seriously the numerous reasons why Muhammad is so deeply problematic a figure for non-Muslims and secular Muslims alike.


[1] Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc., 2006. See review in “Brief Reviews,” Middle East Quarterly, Fall 2007.

[2] Muhammad: A Prophet for Our Time (New York: HarperCollins, 2006).

[3] In the Footsteps of the Prophet: Lessons from the Life of Muhammad (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2007).

[4] San Francisco: HarperOne, reprint ed., 1993.

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Filed Under: academia, Featured, Robert Spencer Tagged With: Kecia Ali, muhammad


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Comments

  1. sheik yer'mami says

    Mar 27, 2015 at 12:13 pm

    Really, Mr Spencer. How can you frame and interpret a life of warfare, plunder, rape and unspeakable crime in “relentlessly negative ways?”

    There’s gotta be something good about it, Robert.

    1.5 gazillion Muselmaniacs worship the guy. Just what could it be?

    • cs says

      Mar 29, 2015 at 2:18 pm

      FEAR, that is the answer. And further fear in realizing it is all a big bullshit, full of balls ans lies and distortions.
      You can take something wise from Christianity and Judaism, they have their nonsense, but you can take a lot of learning studying the texts.
      But in Islam you have intimidation, you have violence and a lot of balls, and you don’t get much learning.
      Hope I have helped you on your personnel journey.

  2. ECAW says

    Mar 27, 2015 at 12:46 pm

    Just because different ages found different aspects of Mohammed repulsive doesn’t necessarily mean, as she seems to be implying, that they are largely the result of the beholders’ concerns. It could be that he is just a multi-faceted monster with something to catch the attention of viewers from any time or background.

    People here concentrate on different aspects of his character and actions. For me, when first reading the texts, it was the simple, casual cruelty.

    • Nimrod says

      Mar 28, 2015 at 5:11 pm

      This focus on relativistic interpretations at different times is just more of the “everything is equally valid except when we find that something is leading to success and prosperity, in which case we need to destroy it in the name of Marxist conflict theory-based social justice” that is standard in academia.

      Here’s the academic mainstream in a nutshell:

      Goal: equal outcome regardless of beliefs or actions.

      Theory: marxist zero-sum conflict theory. (also called class warfare theory or liberation theology). Harming any “dominant” group will necessarily help the non-dominant groups.

      Solution: Phony moral relativism which means attack anything successful (denounce as immoral) while insisting that everything else is “equally valid”.

      Even according to their own theories, they should be attacking themselves given that their beliefs have been so “successful” (in terms of obtaining jobs, social status, etc) in the artificial environment of academia. But they aren’t doing that so one really has to wonder just how intellectually honest they are.

  3. Buraq says

    Mar 27, 2015 at 1:00 pm

    Slightly off topic, but related, nevertheless. I stumbled across a bunch of videos made by an ex-Muslim on You Tube. They all go under the name of CEMB Admins. They are extremely well made and dismantle Islam brick by brick. Here’s an example of one of them …..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CHm2xigkBc

    He sounds very English, but his Arabic is at the standard of a native speaker! Anyway, the clown Kecia Ali wouldn’t be able to hold a candle to him, in my humble opinion.

    • cs says

      Mar 27, 2015 at 6:25 pm

      Thanks for the link I will watch them, it is from that organization for British ex-muslims, therefore the British accent.
      http://ex-muslim.org.uk/
      Some of them are quite capable and well prepared, therefore they could not accept this whole Islamic craziness.

    • Dhimmiwit says

      Mar 28, 2015 at 5:19 am

      His name is Hassan, he is half Egytptian. You will also find him in some of the early Jinn and tonic shows, here is one where he is given an Arabic lesson by a ‘revert’…

      • cs says

        Mar 29, 2015 at 2:31 pm

        Thanks, it is an interesting show, I love the name that guy uses, Jinn and Tonic, is a incredibly clever name.

        • cs says

          Mar 29, 2015 at 2:33 pm

          Let me rephrase it:
          “it is an interesting show, I loved the name that that guy uses, Jinn and Tonic, it is an incredibly clever name.”

    • voegelinian says

      Mar 28, 2015 at 1:23 pm

      Unfortunately, CEMB is headed by a Marxist who hates America and Israel, Maryam Namazie. Here’s the Google search page on her for Jihad Watch articles:

      https://www.google.ca/search?as_q=maryam+namazie&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jihadwatch.org%2F&as_occt=any&safe=images&tbs=&as_filetype=&as_rights=

      And here, among them, is a quote from Spencer himself in a comment from October of 2013:

      And here is yet another false charge: I attack moderate ex-Muslims? What nonsense. Pamela Geller and I held a conference for ex-Muslims in Los Angeles in 2012. I’ve worked with Nonie Darwish, Wafa Sultan, Ibn Warraq, and other ex-Muslims. Ayaan Hirsi Ali and I are on friendly terms.

      But I know what you’re referring to: you mean the “ex-Muslims” of CEMB and Maryam Namazie. Actually what happened was that I had written about them favorably and supported their work until they attacked me, on false pretenses, and refuse to retract (like you) or engage.

      http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/10/norway-muslims-affirm-that-sharia-punishments-not-extreme-theyre-just-islam/comment-page-0#comment-980503

      And my own experience with the CEMB discussion forum (I wrote the following as a comment on the Freedom Faith International website):

      “I discovered to my exceeding dismay that the overwhelming response to my initial posts at CEMB — posts which were no-nonsense tough anti-Islamic posts — was one of hostility to me, hostility to my positions, and a generally knee-jerk defense of Muslims.

      …

      “The reception I got at CEMB was mostly uncivil and unintelligent, and reeking of a lockstep intolerance — and adding injury to insult, they tended to regurgitate the kinds of politically correct multi-culturalist Islam apologist claptrap (opposing Gitmo, for example, or trying to say that Abu Ghraib is just as bad if not worse than the torture that Muslim countries engage in)….”

      http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1699&p=25651

      • ECAW says

        Mar 29, 2015 at 3:15 am

        Voegelinian – I got a very similar response when I asked CEMB what their view on Muslim immigration was. I had imagined that they of all people would be against importing people, an uncertain proportion of whom, would like to see them dead but got very dusty responses such as “Don’t expect to proselytise for the EDL here”.

        • cs says

          Mar 29, 2015 at 2:50 pm

          But she is friendly with Murray, and he is not a leftist. But sure he is sophisticated…

        • ECAW says

          Mar 29, 2015 at 3:50 pm

          I’ve seen a video of Douglas Murray some time ago calling for a stop to all Muslim immigration. All that seems to have disappeared now.

        • voegelinian says

          Mar 29, 2015 at 7:08 pm

          Murray is an uncertain quantity. And he’s chummy with Maajid Nawaz, apparently.

  4. mortimer says

    Mar 27, 2015 at 1:03 pm

    The question is: Why MUST we admire Mohammed? MUST we admire Stalin? MUST we admire Mao? MUST we admire Genghis Khan? Or Caesar? Or Jim Jones?

    MUST there be only positive words about Churchill, Lincoln, George Washington, Mahatma Gandhi or Francis of Assisi?

    The only concern of a ‘good’ historian is to find out WHAT REALLY HAPPENED?

    Kecia Ali’s book about Mohammed couldn’t care less about facts…it’s about FEELINGS! So it’s a lot of bunk.

    • Alarmed Pig Farmer says

      Mar 27, 2015 at 4:54 pm

      None of these historical figures mentioned by you here promised limitless sex here on earth, and eternal limitless sex once up in Jannat porno heaven. That kinda stuff motivates people. Hell, the way you get into porno heaven is by killing one or more Infidels to make it so that there is no Gold but Allah.

      So, to answer your question, yes, yes we MUST admire Allah. But with a qualification: it is optional to not admire Allah, but to keep your mouth shut so as to not upset those who do. In other words, no bellyaching about Allah and Mohammed and the rest of the gang, just be quiet and let all Moslems celebrate the Islamic Panoply in peace. If you make unwanted noise the mujahidin might take notice and retaliate against your aggression.

      Did you know that the word Islam means peace in Arabic? Did you know that Islam is a religion of peace? If you don’t know these important things, then best be silent and let the theology professors run a dialog to work out misalignment in understandings. Misunderstandings.

    • JMB says

      Mar 27, 2015 at 7:14 pm

      Was it Orwell who famously said; “He who controls history controls the present”?

      Dictators and despots throughout history and to this present day all like to revise history to suit their own agenda. In this regard I am certain that this trash by Kecia Ali will be no different. It may even receive a Presidential Endorsement from a certain president who also likes to revise history. (Especially anything that shows islam in a good light.)

      We certainly live in an age of universal deceit.

    • gravenimage says

      Mar 27, 2015 at 7:34 pm

      This is very true, Mortimer.

      Many people have criticized Churchill, Lincoln, George Washington, Mahatma Gandhi or Francis of Assisi, and while we may or may not agree with all such criticisms, the ability to criticize *any* figure is one civilized people agree on.

      But, of course, criticizing the appalling “Prophet” is forbidden in Islam. And it is only through homicidal violence that Muslims have caused Infidels to care about this ban one way or the other.

  5. Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says

    Mar 27, 2015 at 1:40 pm

    Is Kecia Ali a crypto-Islamophobe, practicing a kind of infidel taqiyya?
    Notice how she refers to her fellow Muhammad scholar Robert Spencer
    as “the grand pooh-bah of the legion of American Islamophobes.”
    That word “pooh-bah” is a hidden, dog-whistle version of the
    well-known encomium “pbuh” (for “peace be upon him” when referring
    respectfully to great master).

    • Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says

      Mar 27, 2015 at 4:16 pm

      And come to think of it, what kind of a name is “Kecia”? Have you ever seen such a name before? Like “pooh-bah” is an anglicized version of “pbuh”, “Kecia” must be an anglicized spelling of “Qeshiyyah”.

      • mortimer says

        Mar 27, 2015 at 4:30 pm

        The name resulted from the mother frequently losing her keys and smoking marijuana to excess.

        • Marko says

          Mar 28, 2015 at 6:23 am

          The photo say it all.

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 28, 2015 at 4:39 pm

        Mark, I’ve seen this name among black Muslims. Variations are LaKecia and Lakeshia.

  6. Joe Shmo says

    Mar 27, 2015 at 2:12 pm

    “is so deeply problematic a figure for non-Muslims and secular Muslims alike.”

    Problematic is a nice way of putting it.

    I wonder if she really believes what she’s pumping out, or if she knows the truth of Muhammad even if only on some sort of unconscious level.

    “We became morally sick, having to say things we didn’t believe.” Vaclav Havel.

  7. muhammad and gandhi are like twins says

    Mar 27, 2015 at 2:56 pm

    Obviously this is a highly sophisticated text as she compares Muhammad to Gandhi. After all, they are almost mirror images of each other. Most people when think of Gandhi think of Muhammad due to both of them being pacifists. Of all the religions, Islam is the least violent, except for the 100 plus passages calling for the killing of the “vilest” creatures, the “non-believers” and the mistreatment of women. Other than that and Muhammad’s life of butchery and killing, yes, Muhammad and Gandhi are very similar.

  8. RonaldB says

    Mar 27, 2015 at 3:21 pm

    Robert gave us an interesting and informative review. He’s obviously trying to give us what the academics have thrown away: an objective analysis where the facts are not clouded by the author’s own perceptions. Robert presented the basic thesis of the book as worth examining, as well as her marshaling of many facts.

    The appropriate format for the book would have been to have most chapters as an objective presentation of the author’s facts and hypotheses. Of course, an author can always give a personal reaction, but that should be in a separate, well-defined, clearly-marked section. The best researchers will also present their own biases to some critical review: they won’t necessarily lose them, nor should they, but their own opinions are grist for analysis, like any other component of their subject matter.

    Generally, the milieu within which academics operate is defined by a closed circle of subject matter “experts”, who are tenured, review each other’s papers and articles, and refer students to each other. It will be interesting to see if Kecia Ali responds to Robert’s reasoned critique of her book, as her career will not be damaged in the least if she totally ignores him. The only thing which would suffer would be the actual search for truth.

  9. Pjotr Lake says

    Mar 27, 2015 at 3:54 pm

    Highway robbery, Murder, Rape, Pedophilia, Theft, Lies and Deceit, Suicide attempts….The list goes on.
    How can this person be anybody’s prophet? Sounds more like a dangerous lunatic who should be locked up and throw away the key to the ocean.

  10. Alarmed Pig Farmer says

    Mar 27, 2015 at 4:36 pm

    Spencer is a professional polemicist surfing the neologism Islamophobe to make a crowd of Islmophobes he can grand pooh-bah his way to fame. But wait, before one can designate a group as having irrational fear of Moslems and their Holy Ko-Ran, one must first demonstrate said irrationality.

    Here’s a quick test for Ms. Kecia Ali (her surname got by a celebratory name change, no doubt) and I’m sure that this exam is “reasonably accurate”:

    1) Does the Holy Ko-Ran command to fight until there is no God but Allah?
    2) Was it normal in Arabia circa 623 AD for a man to marry a 9-year old girl?
    3) Did the Holy Prophet make for two contract murders (Abu, Asma) that were carried out?
    4) Did the Holy Prophet personally supervise the mass murder of several hundred people?
    5) Did the Holy Prophet run a protection racket forcing non-Moslems to pay a monthly service fee?

    If the answers to any of these questions is Yes, then we’re not Islamophobes, and Spencer is not our grand pooh-bah, and he is a reasonably accurate author who should get no blame that the facts of Mohammed and Islam are relentlessly negative.

    From a civilized perspective, at least.

    So long as you’re talking motives here, what was your birth surname, Kecia? What motivated you to change it to an Arabic surname? Do you bear an agenda that is relentlessly positive about the Holy Prophet?

    And the most damning personal question of all: Are you a college professor?

  11. Papa Whiskey says

    Mar 27, 2015 at 4:47 pm

    The first seven words of this creature’s bio at this site …

    http://www.wisemuslimwomen.org/muslimwomen/bio/kecia_ali/

    … tell you all you need to know:

    “Kecia Ali is a Muslim feminist scholar …”

    BTW, her Boston University CV contains the following article:

    “ ‘A Beautiful Example’: The Prophet Muḥammad as a Model for Muslim Husbands.” Islamic Studies, 43:2, Summer 2004, pp. 273-91.”

    That ought to be a howler!

    • JMB says

      Mar 27, 2015 at 8:23 pm

      I would also suggest that this woman (Kecia) thinks that those medieval robes that most Muslim women wear are the ultimate expression of freedom and liberation. The reasoning for this goes something like this; “unlike Western women they are free from the competition of having to dress for their social or professional lives…” (But note, here in Australia they wear these stupid robes into the surf at the beach and wonder why they drown)

      “Kecia Ali is a Muslim feminist scholar …” That tells a us all we need to know, she is anti-white, anti-male and most certainly anti-Christian. I suppose that she is being supported by white male taxpayers.

      Would Kecia like to be in the role of one of 4 wives that any good Islamic man is allowed to have? Perhaps she would be given the role of looking after the children or sweeping the mud floors. Wow, this could be a good reality role for her to be in.

  12. Dag says

    Mar 27, 2015 at 5:13 pm

    OK, here´s my contribution to the scholarship on the life of Mohammed. Fear of censors stopping publication of my book entirely drove me to some pretty sophisticated code-making to confuse them: I wrote Snootom, not Motoons. My book is an illustrated book on the life of Demmahom, not Mohammed. I do not malign Allah. I merely produced some lovely caligraphy of Khawallah. This is not a Mohammed cartoon. It is a book of Demmahom cartoons.

    http://www.amazon.com/Snootom-D-W-Walker/dp/0987761587/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1427136006&sr=1-1&keywords=snootom

    My next book, Motoons, is not clever or funny or informative. It´s mea-spirted, vile, and juvenile. I might get that one past the censors as well. If not, Snootom is out there. No one can stop us from exercising our rights to free speech. Whether we bother exercising such rights is a different matter. You can check out my efforts at the link above.

    • Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says

      Mar 27, 2015 at 8:38 pm

      Dag, Your book is a great idea. Perhaps you could place a free copy in every mosque, financed by a subsidy from the Wahhabi-like philanthropist Egroeg Soros (I spelled his name backwards to conceal his identity).
      “Ceci n’est pas une pipe”, indeed.
      P.S. Your name is a great idea too, with an Australian flavor.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dag_(subculture)

      • Dag says

        Mar 28, 2015 at 1:52 pm

        Now you know why, world traveller that I am, I have never been to Australia!

        Yes, my book is good. It should be a hit, but folks have to look at it to find that out for themselves. The only thing that will make it popular is that it becomes popular. I could well be rich, given that I am sort of as smart as Soros, a guy who spells his name backward.

        If you get my book, please leave a review here and there and everywhere. It´s not likely to upset jihadis, and that´s likely clear to nearly everyone here, because our jihadi opponents are wankers with no clever factor. For those of us who get it, it is hilarious.

  13. Sam says

    Mar 27, 2015 at 5:20 pm

    Is there anything in her “study” about why muslims are committing sucide along with killing others, beheading muslims and infidels, taking slaves and child brides, trying to have nuclear bomb, waging war among Sunnies and Shiites, terrorizing and maiming marathon runners and spectators, shutting down any discussion of Islam by infidels. What the f*** good this false prophet ever did, if ever existed?

    More importantly what is this great effort to defend an indefensible cult of Islam by millions? What happened to just plain common sense. What is wrong with humanity?

  14. jay says

    Mar 27, 2015 at 6:09 pm

    Before I even read what the article was about her picture could be in the encyclopedia entry for Typical Liberal Professor. I’m sure she thinks guns are bad and Che was a great guy too. They’re all the same. There is no interest in truth, only narrative and agenda.

    • voegelinian says

      Mar 28, 2015 at 1:41 pm

      A “typical liberal professor” is a different kettle of fish from a Muslim professor, which Kecia Ali is. I.e., her problem is not that she is corrupted by Leftism; it is that she is Muslim, advancing the Islamic agenda in her jihad of the pen. While most Leftists are simply Useful Idiots, a Muslim who adopts & adapts Leftist memes is merely using Leftism as a vehicle — much as when a mujaheed uses a Western-made weapon to facilitate their fighting.

      • Jay Boo says

        Mar 28, 2015 at 1:50 pm

        Well dissected voeg

      • Jay Boo says

        Mar 28, 2015 at 1:58 pm

        It looks like we posted at the same time PJ
        I did not mean this to come off as a contradiction to your comment as I was merely replying directly to voeg.
        I may or may not be correct in my analysis on the topic here but, I will give him credit when I believe it is due. I will also go the other route if he falls back into some of those old commenting habits he has once exhibited. From what I have seen voeg seems to have come around so let’s give him a break.

      • voegelinian says

        Mar 28, 2015 at 4:59 pm

        What the fuck could Phillip Jihadski possibly have a problem with in my comment? Someone else tell me, as I am too viscerally disgusted by him to read his comments; and when I see his name I shudder with a frisson of weary disgust.

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 28, 2015 at 5:49 pm

        I believe you are correct, Voeg—many Muslims are all too happy to use leftist rhetoric like “diversity” and “social justice” and other politically correct clichés in order to fool the credulous Kuffar.

      • voegelinian says

        Mar 28, 2015 at 10:04 pm

        “Belief in Islam as a primary belief wouldn’t tolerate a belief in feminism, therefore Islam can’t be primary.”

        Never heard of taqiyya, eh? Good God…

        • Nimrod says

          Mar 29, 2015 at 1:18 am

          Never heard of Marxist taqiyya? Lenin? Mao? Good god…

          Check this out:

          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kecia-ali/belief-o-matic-and-me_b_1501535.html

          This is exactly the sort of stuff that only the irrational “dielectical” throught process of “always oppose the bougoise things” can generate. She wouldn’t admit in public that some survey claimed she should be a “Reform Jew” if Islam were really her primary motivator.

          This is another case of someone who is so culturally marxist that they probably don’t even know that they’re a Marxist.

        • ECAW says

          Mar 29, 2015 at 5:16 am

          Yay – secular humanist!

          Glad to see I don’t hsve much in common with 7th Day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses or Islam.

        • voegelinian says

          Mar 29, 2015 at 7:10 pm

          It doesn’t matter how much Leftist behavior you can adduce from Kecia. She is Muslim. That trumps everything.

  15. Gary says

    Mar 27, 2015 at 6:13 pm

    “And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.”

    (Romans 13:11–12)

  16. Nimrod says

    Mar 27, 2015 at 6:44 pm

    Wonder if she consulted this at all: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_expeditions_of_Muhammad

    So, number of military attacks/battles/expeditions:

    Muhammad: 100
    Every other founder of a major world religion: 0

    But no doubt this can just be ignored since its just some artifact of what sorts of things people are concerned about these days. Massive violence, no violence, it’s all the same, dude!

    • Zimriel says

      Mar 27, 2015 at 7:16 pm

      If you count LDS as a major world religion, which you should, then Joseph Smith Jr and Brigham Young did at least order several military campaigns between them. But then, Joe consciously evoked the example of that earlier Prophet (paraphrase: as it was then the Alcoran or the sword, so shall it be with us Joseph Smith or the sword).

      But more to the point Moses and Joshua are credited with several campaigns in Transjordan and Canaan, respectively. They’re not fully historical figures, but then neither is Muhammad really . . .

      • Nimrod says

        Mar 28, 2015 at 5:42 pm

        I was really just talking about the major religious groupings here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations#Adherent_estimates

        “Unaffiliated” and Hinduism don’t really have specific founders so it’s hard to say anything about the founders of those.

        Really, though, if the definition of religion being used were intellectually honest then it would include Marxism, Marxism-Leninism, Marxism-Maoism, and neo-Marxism.

        It has occurred to me that early Mormonism has some similarity to early Islam, but fortunately Mormonism includes ideas from Freemasonry and the US constitution. So any beliefs that aren’t working out can be changed by the council of twelve. As for whether it’s a major religion, I think that depends on whether you define major in terms of wealth or in terms of number of adherents. In terms of property owned by the LDS church it would be, as it is up there with the Catholic Church. In terms of population I’m not sure. Judaism is another one that could be considered major in terms of wealth and influence but not in absolute population.

  17. abad says

    Mar 27, 2015 at 7:14 pm

    How about some secular proof that he existed outside the Quran? or is that like asking for the moon?

    • Zimriel says

      Mar 27, 2015 at 7:30 pm

      abad: Depends on your definition of secular.

      From the 40s / 660s we do have sources that relate that the tayyaye were acclaiming Mahmet / Muhammad as their “lawgiver” and “guide”; “prophet” is also mentioned. But these’re self-consciously Christian. Pseudo-Sebeos is probably the best of these; and the Maronite Chronicle mentions it in passing (referring to a “seat of Muhammad” which is probably the mosque at Madina). Would you count them as secular?

      Earlier than that, uh, not so much. Thomas the Presbyter and the Khuzistan Chronicle, again, just mention “Mahmet” in passing. Maybe sura 3 counts, which mentions a muhammad as a prophet who seems to have recently died.

  18. gravenimage says

    Mar 27, 2015 at 8:23 pm

    Here’s the nasty, Taqiyya-spewing Kecia Ali, claiming that Shari’ah law as practiced anywhere on earth is not really Islamic:

    “Whose Sharia Is It? by Kecia Ali”

    http://feminismandreligion.com/2014/05/27/whose-sharia-is-it-by-kecia-ali/

    She also condemns Westerners for not really caring about Muslim lives because they only condemn Shari’ah when it is “sensationalistic”. This is like slamming Gentiles caring about Jews being taken off to death camps because the Holocaust is a “sensationalistic” story.

    She then—bizarrely—goes on to slam “modernity”, since the strict application of Shari’ah is supposedly more severe than the mellow, pre-modern version. I imagine the victims of Shari’ah savagery down fourteen centuries of bloody oppression and violence in the Muslim world would be rather surprised by this.

    The only reason she can get away with this bs is because the Muslim world had, until recently, been slightly influenced by the West, and had moderated some of its gaudier horrors. That is why you can find pictures from places like Egypt and Afghanistan from fifty years ago with fewer veiled women.

    But that does not mean that Islam was somehow more “mellow” during this period—just that it was not as stringently followed. Now with Islam resurgent around so much of the world we see it for what it always was.

    Note that Ali is not really criticizing Shari’ah law here at all—she is just whitewashing it for credulous Infidels by claiming that its application anywhere is not, somehow, real Islamic law.

    And here she is pretending that ISIS is not Islamic:

    http://feminismandreligion.com/2015/02/24/isis-and-authority-by-kecia-ali/

    In it she hauls out the tired canard that there is “an unholy convergence of interests between extremist Muslims and Islamophobes”, which is like saying there was an unholy convergence between Nazis and Winston Churchill, who dared to name their barbarism, and not pretend that what Hitler was practicing was, somehow, not “real” Fascism.

    And here she disgustingly advocates “embracing the veil” in the wake of the Boston Marathon Jihad bombing to frighten “Islamophobes” who dare entertain “the notion that veiling and Islam somehow connote evil”.

    http://cognoscenti.wbur.org/2013/05/01/muslim-women-boston-marathon-bombing-kecia-ali

    She goes on to characterize any resistance to violent Jihad as “persecution”.

    I could go on—there are many more examples—but why bother? It is clear that Kecia Ali is nothing more than a standard-issue Taqiyya artist.

    • Token says

      Mar 28, 2015 at 1:36 am

      A lot of this kind of whitewashing resembles what was done by communist sympathizers of the Soviet Union back in the Cold War days and earlier. They were willing to lie and turn a blind eye to all sorts of horrors, motivated by ‘the beauty of the system’.

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 28, 2015 at 6:07 pm

        I believe you are right, Token. We found just the same whitewash of Fascism in the ’20s and ’30s.

    • RonaldB says

      Mar 28, 2015 at 12:41 pm

      Hi Gravenimage,

      Thank you for presenting your research on Kecia Ali. I followed your links and read your conclusions.

      I was amazed to find that I somewhat disagreed with your conclusions. You portray Ali as a Taquiya artist, out to fool the West into ignoring the real Islam. What I found is that there is a group of feminist converts to Islam who hold academic positions and who are writing voluminously to try to interpret Islamic law to support feminism and oppose patriarchy.

      https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CD8QFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cesnur.org%2F2012%2Fel-naoual.docx&ei=19AWVbLXOIqeggTok4KACA&usg=AFQjCNH_QG-OGJpM8Tf6baSrtzeemGBogw&sig2=-T6CLGH3wBxnS0MP2hiitA

      This raises the huge question: why on earth would radical feminists convert to the most viciously misogynistic, patriarchal religion in existence, and then try to reinterpret its clear laws, teaching, and philosophy? These feminist, academic converts to Islam are fooling themselves most of all.

      Raymond Ibrahim in one of the videos presented on JihadWatch said that the real center of Islamic thought is not in the United States, and other Muslims pay no attention at all to the writings and teachings of US Muslims. I don’t think Kecia Ali is specifically targeting non-Muslims for any reasons other than that Muslims do not listen to her, particularly Muslims not in the United States.

      I’ll repeat my genuine bafflement: why do feminists convert to a vicious, openly-misogynistic religion, and attempt to reinterpret virtually all its history and traditions?

      • ECAW says

        Mar 28, 2015 at 1:08 pm

        “I’ll repeat my genuine bafflement: why do feminists convert to a vicious, openly-misogynistic religion, and attempt to reinterpret virtually all its history and traditions?”

        RonaldB – Yes, it’s crossed my mind that there’s something darkly erotic going on here. Karen Armstrong and Lesley Hazleton (and others I’ve only read snatches of and can’t remember their names) give me the impression of having fallen in love with Mohammed – and it’s the bodice-ripping surrender kind of falling in love that wasn’t ashamed to show itself 80 years ago with Valentino and the Sheik of Araby.

        Since then feminism has supressed expression of that aspect of female sexuality but the repressed always returns doesn’t it? Now we see the ugly version becoming acceptable – Barbara Cartland has turned into Fifty Shades of Grey. What do feminiss make of it? There was a debate about it recently in the Graun (where else?) with the female director of the film saying “feminists don’t have to be on top”. That implies that male-female relations have to involve dominance and submission which might be why the religion of submission might have a secret appeal for some.

        When I first started reading the Graun after Woolwich my first impression was that there seemed to be some sort of masochistic fascination going on.

        Just a few disorganised thoughts – what do you think?

        • RonaldB says

          Mar 28, 2015 at 3:00 pm

          “what do you think?”

          ECAW,

          I think your approach is highly creative and very interesting. Please keep it up.

          As to whether I agree with it…I have to wrap my head around it for a while. It’s certainly plausible. The rabid, fire-eating feminists on paper in reality pussy-cats when they’re in the presence of a male who actually notices them..even if the male is a long-dead, huckster, serial philanderer and abuser. Even if the feminist is an avowed lesbian. Counter-intuitive, but definitely plausible.

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 29, 2015 at 4:51 pm

        RonaldB wrote:

        Hi Gravenimage,

        Thank you for presenting your research on Kecia Ali. I followed your links and read your conclusions.

        I was amazed to find that I somewhat disagreed with your conclusions. You portray Ali as a Taquiya artist, out to fool the West into ignoring the real Islam. What I found is that there is a group of feminist converts to Islam who hold academic positions and who are writing voluminously to try to interpret Islamic law to support feminism and oppose patriarchy.
        …………………………………………

        Hi Ronald,

        I’m afraid I was unable to check out your link—I needed some app on my computer to read it that I am apparently lacking. But I have read a great deal of this Muslim “feminism”, and I presume this was likely more of the same.

        I don’t doubt that she is a “Muslim feminist”, as far as that goes—I just find it rather irrelevant. I don’t believe that such feminists are going to be able to effect any real change in Islam, nor that many of them are even trying, in any substantive way. Most of them focus on comparative irrelevancies such as gender separation in the Mosque, while utterly ignoring issues such as FGM, forced veiling, child marriage, forced marriage, rape, sexual slavery, “Honor Killing”, and the imprisonment, flogging, and stoning of women for “Zina”.

        So such reform, even if enacted—which is not bloody likely—would do almost nothing to reform Islam in any substantive way in its treatment of Muslim women. And such Muslim feminists almost *never* broach the issue of Muslim abuse of Infidel women.

        More:

        This raises the huge question: why on earth would radical feminists convert to the most viciously misogynistic, patriarchal religion in existence, and then try to reinterpret its clear laws, teaching, and philosophy? These feminist, academic converts to Islam are fooling themselves most of all…

        I’ll repeat my genuine bafflement: why do feminists convert to a vicious, openly-misogynistic religion, and attempt to reinterpret virtually all its history and traditions?
        …………………………………………

        Ronald, I haven’t actually been able to determine whether Kecia Ali is a convert to Islam or was born into it.

        For many born into it, I think there is general fear of leaving Islam—for good reason, given its death penalty for apostasy.

        But also—and this is probably a more important point for most of them—is that while they might quibble with one or two issues such as women being barred from speaking in Mosques, that most of them actually *do* generally adhere to the horrifying tenets of Islam themselves.

        For Western converts, I think many of them have been influenced by the Western idea that *anything* can be reformed, combined with a misapprehension of how deep the misogyny of Islam truly runs. I believe many of these idiots think Islam is no different from Judaism or Christianity in this respect.

        And their milieu being Western academia more than Islam itself just reinforces this false view.

        But many of these converts are also attracted by the viciousness of Islam, as well. I believe it can be an error to assume that Muslim women are always just victims of Islam—they can also be enablers of Jihad, as well.

        Take a figure like Jihad Jane—she wanted to take an “active” role in Islam, but this took the form not of trying to reform the Mosque, but of plotting violent Jihad herself. And what about the “sisters” running off to join the Islamic State?

        More:

        Raymond Ibrahim in one of the videos presented on JihadWatch said that the real center of Islamic thought is not in the United States, and other Muslims pay no attention at all to the writings and teachings of US Muslims. I don’t think Kecia Ali is specifically targeting non-Muslims for any reasons other than that Muslims do not listen to her, particularly Muslims not in the United States.
        …………………………………………

        Yeah—*maybe*. But Muslim feminists like Kecia Ali could, at least, aim her remarks primarily at other Muslims, even if only Muslims in the West.

        That her main audience is Infidels significantly changes the whole context: now she is not so much out to genuinely reform Islam—which would, necessarily, involve dealing with other Muslims—but to deal with whether hopeful Infidels consider reform of Islam possible.

        And that *does* end up with her whitewashing Islam for Kuffar consumption, whether you believe that this is an unfortunate side effect of her having a primarily non-Muslim audience, or consider it—as I largely do—as deliberate Taqiyya.

        Remember that even with a largely Infidel audience, there would be no necessary reason for her to soft-pedal Islam—she could, instead, be quite critical.

        Instead, she says stuff like this:

        “Critics have insisted that Muhammad used violence too easily, and that Islam spread by the sword – which we know to be seldom the case.”

        http://www.juancole.com/2014/10/understanding-kecia-muhammad.html

        Of course, we know that Islam *was* in many—perhaps most—cases spread by the sword, and that this is, in fact, a key tenet of that intrinsically violent creed.

        And here, she slams any criticism of the “Prophet’s” raping little Aisha at the tender age of nine as pedophilia as the work of “polemicists”—surely more the position of an apologist than of a “feminist”.

        http://islamicommentary.org/2014/10/aisha-mother-of-the-faithful/

        And this, of course, is *not* just about “historical context”—since Muhammed is considered the “perfect man” and his actions a model for all time, this effects millions of girls all over the world *today*.

        Why would a feminist—or any sort of genuine reformer—not care about this?

        In fact, her *only* issue here is that this cannot somehow be a genuine concern, because Western critics of Muhammed did not focus on this one aspect of the “Prophet’s” depravity until comparatively recently.

        In other words, this is all about the (supposed) hypocrisy and inconsistency of Infidels, and that the rape of a nine-year-old child is not a valid concern at all.

        And here she is, positing that “combatting stereotypes” in the wake of Jihad attacks like the Boston Marathon bombings is the main issue—she does not even broach the idea of Muslim violence being a problem at all.

        http://dailyfreepress.com/2013/04/25/allocations-board-releases-clarifying-end-of-year-report/

        In the end, I still do believe that Kecia Ali and her ilk are more Taqiyya artists than they are genuine reformers.

        But thank you for the issues you raised—always good to have one’s views challenged by someone one respects, which necessitates reviewing them more in depth. I realize you may still disagree with my conclusions, of course.

        • RonaldB says

          Mar 30, 2015 at 10:46 am

          Hi Gravenimage,

          Yes. It’s stimulating and pleasurable to engage in dialog and respectful disagreement with people holding other opinions.

          As far as not being able to read the document at the link I provided, may I suggest installing the open source Open Office suite, allowing you to use and create Microsoft Office documents without having to contribute to a chief supporter of the Common Curriculum. I use the suite all the time, especially the document editor and the spreadsheet.

          http://www.openoffice.org/download/index.html

          I suggest you get the download from the link, as other websites give you an Open Office installation, but tend to load their own crap onto it.

          Kecia is definitely a convert. Here is the title of the document I referenced:

          “American Muslim women convert’s (sic) and the reinterpretation of Islam: A study of American women converts’ writings”

          “The appeal of this religion to Americans is particularly surprising when one considers the dichotomy and the conflict between the West and Islam. What is more surprising is the fact that a significant number of women are embracing Islam, not only that but, they go further to examine its teachings and evaluate the already provided interpretations of its sources.”

          I find your, Gravenimages, observation that female Muslim converts such as Kecia Ali, may agree with the main trappings of Islam, while focusing on window-dressing such as the separation of sexes, to be very interesting, and quite plausible.

          I found one statement in the link you provided to be very interesting:

          ” What’s striking is not that this continues to be a theme but rather how the accusations have changed. For medieval and early modern critics, it was Muhammad’s general debauchery and lustfulness that were problematic. For nineteenth century Christian authors, it was his polygamy and oppressiveness to women. In the late twentieth century, Aisha’s age became the focus of criticism. In other words, the fears authors project onto Others have changed radically over time.”

          Kecia Ali is setting up a false distinction, and parlaying that into an academic book. She is assuming that critics of the 20th century are ignoring Muhammad’s debauchery and oppression of women, and are just focusing on his relations with a 9-year old. In fact, real critics of Islam and Muhammad are just as focused on Muhammad’s general psychopathy as the medieval and Romantic-period authors were. And, you make the excellent point that the real harm is not that Muhammad followed a practice we find abhorrent today, but that his conduct is taken as a universal example of exemplary ethics.

          In the end, there is this: I try to understand the mindset of these people, and it may make me appear to be more sympathetic to them than I am. But, by now, the actions and effects of Muslim populations are completely predictable.

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 1, 2015 at 10:46 pm

          RonaldB wrote:

          Hi Gravenimage,

          Yes. It’s stimulating and pleasurable to engage in dialog and respectful disagreement with people holding other opinions.
          ……………………………….

          Agreed—thanks.

          More:

          As far as not being able to read the document at the link I provided, may I suggest installing the open source Open Office suite…
          ……………………………….

          Thanks—I’ll try that.

          More:

          Kecia is definitely a convert…
          ……………………………….

          Thanks—I was looking for that information. It does not surprise.

          More:

          “The appeal of this religion to Americans is particularly surprising when one considers the dichotomy and the conflict between the West and Islam. What is more surprising is the fact that a significant number of women are embracing Islam, not only that but, they go further to examine its teachings and evaluate the already provided interpretations of its sources.”
          ……………………………

          Yeah—but while they may niggle with some issues, I believe the days are long gone where some flaky but decent naïf could read a few lines of Rumi’s poetry and buy a handful of colorful scarves and innocently convert to Islam.

          There’s almost always something very dark going in with “reverts”.

          More:

          I find your, Gravenimages, observation that female Muslim converts such as Kecia Ali, may agree with the main trappings of Islam, while focusing on window-dressing such as the separation of sexes, to be very interesting, and quite plausible.
          ……………………………

          And as I noted, even this seems aimed as much at Infidels as it is at her fellow Muslims. Could you imagine a Jewish woman who wanted to reform Orthodox Judaism’s rules for women writing primarily for Gentiles? (Of course, they could just got to reform services, in any case—but there is almost nothing analogous to Islam these days, even on minor issues).

          More:

          I found one statement in the link you provided to be very interesting:

          ” What’s striking is not that this continues to be a theme but rather how the accusations have changed. For medieval and early modern critics, it was Muhammad’s general debauchery and lustfulness that were problematic. For nineteenth century Christian authors, it was his polygamy and oppressiveness to women. In the late twentieth century, Aisha’s age became the focus of criticism. In other words, the fears authors project onto Others have changed radically over time.”

          Kecia Ali is setting up a false distinction, and parlaying that into an academic book. She is assuming that critics of the 20th century are ignoring Muhammad’s debauchery and oppression of women, and are just focusing on his relations with a 9-year old. In fact, real critics of Islam and Muhammad are just as focused on Muhammad’s general psychopathy as the medieval and Romantic-period authors were. And, you make the excellent point that the real harm is not that Muhammad followed a practice we find abhorrent today, but that his conduct is taken as a universal example of exemplary ethics.
          ……………………………

          Yes—the idea that Islam’s oppression of women was merely a 19th century concern, or that pedophilia and child marriage are not an intrinsic part of the oppression, is a false construct.

          More:

          In the end, there is this: I try to understand the mindset of these people, and it may make me appear to be more sympathetic to them than I am. But, by now, the actions and effects of Muslim populations are completely predictable.
          ……………………………

          I quite agree. Thanks for the stimulating exchange.

    • voegelinian says

      Mar 28, 2015 at 1:56 pm

      But that does not mean that Islam was somehow more “mellow” during this period [e.g., Egypt and Afghanistan in the early to mid 20th century]—just that it was not as stringently followed. Now with Islam resurgent around so much of the world we see it for what it always was.

      If one would wonder why a Kecia Ali doesn’t hold up that former era as a model of inspiration for Muslims today to recapture, it’s because Muslims like Kecia Ali have good reason to suspect that the superficial relaxation of Mohammedan mores during that period was wholly due to pressure — subtle, indicrect, as well as direct and offical & institutional — from Western powers (first Colonial, then post-Colonial).

      In the meantime, however, the PC MC meme, with its own self-hatred and guilt about its own Western Colonialism (intimately bound up with a melange of other irrational assumptions & axioms about reverse racism), has developed a massive, dominant, mainstream culture & worldview throughout the West that would agree with the “narrative” of a Kecia Ali — an incoherent narrative whereby the ostensibly moderated Islam of recent modernity (early to mid 20th century) is deemed to be simultaneously evidence of what true Islam can be AND an episode in history of Western imposition and meddling in their culture which Muslims, if we are to “respect” them, must free themselves from in order to be more Islamic (assumed to be a richly cultural and diverse good, of course). To restore coherence & sense to this, one must recognize that historically, anything good that Muslims have ever done has been due to them being forced by circumstances, indirectly or directly, to not follow their Islam. Muslims, of course, are incapable of thinking this (for it would self-destruct their worldview — the only suicide martyrdom, figuratively speaking, we should wish for them); while PC MC Westerners (who abound all around us throughout the West as a solid majority) are also incapable of this train of thought; though I maintain it would not destroy their worldview, it would just deconstruct the ridiculous fashion that functions as a worldview but, once deconstructed, would restore the proper worldview they already have, rendered effectively hindered as long as they continue to nourish their PC MC.

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 29, 2015 at 5:37 pm

        voegelinian wrote:

        If one would wonder why a Kecia Ali doesn’t hold up that former era as a model of inspiration for Muslims today to recapture, it’s because Muslims like Kecia Ali have good reason to suspect that the superficial relaxation of Mohammedan mores during that period was wholly due to pressure — subtle, indicrect, as well as direct and offical & institutional — from Western powers (first Colonial, then post-Colonial).
        …………………………………

        Quite right, Voeg. And Kecia Ali, needless to say, hates “Colonialism” far more than she does any degree of bloody Muslim misogyny.

        More:

        In the meantime, however, the PC MC meme, with its own self-hatred and guilt about its own Western Colonialism (intimately bound up with a melange of other irrational assumptions & axioms about reverse racism), has developed a massive, dominant, mainstream culture & worldview throughout the West that would agree with the “narrative” of a Kecia Ali…
        …………………………………

        *Very true*. That is why so many credulous Infidels have been happy to listen to this questionable “Muslim feminist”—her blatant bs dovetails perfectly with their own views of the supposed sins of their own civilized culture.

        It also leads them to the mistaken idea that Islam is just as self critical as is the West—but nothing, of course, could be further from the truth.

    • Nimrod says

      Mar 28, 2015 at 6:03 pm

      It’s pretty simple why feminists would embrace Islam, and it’s rooted in the insanity of Marxist zero-sum conflict theory. If you know anything about feminism then you know that feminism is pretty much just a sect of Marxism at this point. (See for example Dialectic of Sex by Shulamith Firestone, the bible of 2nd wave feminism.)

      Because the white, the Christian, and the male dominate, it is necessary to fight all of the above. Therefore embrace feminism and anything that seems “anti-white” and anti-Christian.

      Despite the feminist taqiyya that feminism is about “equality”, 2nd and 3rd wave feminism is most certainly about dominance and is anti-male. Islam is about dominance and is anti-Christian, and it isn’t strongly associated with white people so that fulfills the “anti-white” role. (At one time the anti-christian role would have been fulfilled by communism, but that’s now proven to be a disappointment. “Anti-whiteness” would have been fulfilled in some other manner.)

      You have to or realize that these people don’t use conventional logic, but something called “dialectical reasoning” that isn’t constrained by conventional notions of common sense and has no problem with contradiction and hypocrisy.

      So if someone believes in dialectical “reasoning”, a feminist embracing Islam makes perfect sense. After all, the condraditions don’t matter as long as all of white male christianity is being simultaneously opposed.

      • RonaldB says

        Mar 28, 2015 at 9:12 pm

        You are a cad, sir, for suggesting feminists are into dominance and male hatred.

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/13/sweden-left-party-toilet-stand_n_1590572.html

      • ECAW says

        Mar 29, 2015 at 5:47 am

        You raise interesting points Nimrod and seem to have a comprehensive theory to explain much of the behaviour we find so baffling. Whether it’s correct or not I don’t know, and don’t know enough to know.

        It was bad enough realising that I would have to try and understand Islamic theology, for the purpose of understanding the enemy, but 3rd wave feminism and Marxist zero sum conflict theory? Jesus Christ! Where does it end?

        I hear about cultural Marxism and Common Purpose and such like and scratch my head. It all seems like a very murky pool to me. As you say we’re looking from a very different standpoint, one we equate with logic and common sense.

        If, as I think you are saying, there is a conscious deception being practised by the hard left, then that implies that a far greater number of people from the soft left are deliberately being duped. This is the impression I get when reading the Guardian since their mind-knumbingly stupid cries of “Racist” and “Islamophobe” appear to be heartfelt. To quote one of my favourite writers “It’s a question of sheep and sheepdogs, and some of the sheepdogs are wolves”.

  19. More Ham Ed says

    Mar 27, 2015 at 11:02 pm

    Most if not all liberals repeatedly practice what I would call grade-school playground behavior. Shouting, yelling, name-calling, pushing, lying, arrogance, exaggeration, labeling, ad-hominem attacks, finger-pointing. You know, the same things that worldwide Islamic leaders do. After all, when you don’t have the truth, you have to FAKE EVERYTHING. Robert Spencer knows this very well. He is often on the receiving end of such things, and is very aware of this during debates.

    • duh_swami says

      Mar 28, 2015 at 5:19 am

      The nasties are thick in comments on political web sites…Like specific gravity the thickest and most thuggish pool is at the bottom…the bottom is usually larger than the top…

  20. Token says

    Mar 28, 2015 at 1:31 am

    The fact about Mohammed that raises a particular stink for me is this: While he had regular chats with Allah about all sorts of fairly minor questions, and was given all sorts of marching orders, at no time did Allah ever whisper in his favorite prophet’s ear “Mo, old boy…you aren’t going to live forever. Maybe you want to think about a bit of succession planning…”.

    When Mohammed fell sick and died without naming, much less preparing an heir, the result was the Sunni-Shia schism within Islam…which had engendered emnity and bloodshed between Muslims for the entire history of the religion…up to and including the present day.

    Whatever religious delusions Mohammed may have had that inspired him to take on the mantle of ‘Prophet’ it seems pretty clear to me that he made up a whole bunch of stuff as he went along. Thus the many contradictory statements and changes of tone in the Koran. It’s a pretty big statement to say that the entire basis of a major world religion is based on fraud…but that’s the way it looks to me.

    • gravenimage says

      Mar 29, 2015 at 6:26 pm

      Token, I think the “Prophet” may have had pretty much an “après moi, le déluge” view of things. I believe he was a narcissist who cared little for anyone else, *including* his vicious followers.

      Another point—you consider his neglecting to name a line of succession to be a failure, but I don’t necessarily believe this is so in an Islamic context. Generally, the result has been that the most vicious, unscrupulous warlord rules in Muslim lands.

      Even in the Caliphate, it was not the case that, for instance, it was the eldest son who succeeded the Caliph—instead, it was a bloody jockeying for power among the wives and concubines of the Harem, their various supporters and co-conspirators, and the sons themselves once they we old enough to plot.

      This often resulted in the assassination or executions of large numbers of court counselors, hangers-on, out-of-favor wives, and even little children.

      In other times, it has led to vicious clashes between rival warlords.

      Of course, Infidel history—especially in the distant past—has hardly been free of such barbarism, but it has never felt so intrinsic as it has in Islam, and is largely a thing of the past.

      And recall—today, when every even vaguely civilized nation at least nominally elects its leaders, the most pious Muslims *specifically reject* any sort of democracy.

      This *mandates* that the most brutal strong-man seizes power—after all, that’s how the baleful Muhammed himself came to rule.

  21. duh_swami says

    Mar 28, 2015 at 5:26 am

    Kecia…Aiesha …No matter…Bottom line, never trust anyone who believes Allah is God…And if you believe Gabriel dictated all that garbage to Mahound, you need therapy…

  22. BC says

    Mar 28, 2015 at 6:40 am

    I do not care if Moh married a9 year old as it was the custom of the time and even up until a few centuries ago girls in Europe were married at 14 and sometimes as young as 12. The concept of paedophilia also varies from state to state even in modern times. The point is, times have changed, today we think it correct and desirable for girls to be educated just like boys, also child bearing is harmful to the body of a young girl. Of course in Islam the value of the minds of women is held to low account. They in fact believe that a girl should only prepare herself for housekeeping and child bearing. Which is why various Islamic authorities in their mediaeval ignorance think young girl.s should be married.

    • Nimrod says

      Mar 28, 2015 at 6:36 pm

      I seriously doubt that marrying 9 year olds was the custom of the time. In primitive societies where women don’t go to school or learn anything outside the field of housework, the average age of marriage for females is around 15. This is determined by biological survival constraints and people had enough common sense to know what their survival constraints were with regard to such things.

      The only reason anyone would have actually gotten married (as opposed to betrothed) before puberty would be some sort of political or financial pressure to violate generally accepted social standards.

      In other words, people at the time knew this was wrong but didn’t care because of some sort of political, financial, or social benefit they were getting even if that “benefit” was simply the benefit of not being beheaded by Mahomet and his minions.

  23. Ferdinand (@StFerdinandIII) says

    Mar 28, 2015 at 8:21 am

    Ali is a moron who employs the usual fallacious defense of Mad Moh the Arab Fuehrer by :

    1) Accepting some criticisms has being valid for the era, in which they were made.
    2) Proposing that a culture’s criticism of mad Moh is entirely based on that era’s/cultures world views which by her definition makes them invalid.
    3) Proposing that there are no standards of right or wrong.
    4) Accepting in toto, the moronic claim by Moslems that Moh was a great man, charitable, kind, clean, handsome, urbane etc

    She ignores the sex slaving, the harem, the pedophilia, the murders, the battles, the plunder, the booty, the Jihad, the made up revelations and the fact that his own men killed him out of disgust with his greed and fat opulent lifestyle.

    She studiously ignores the fact that mad Moh was the OPPOSITE of Christ. The exact polar opposite.

    That would make him the anti-Christ.

    Which is of course why she so dearly worships him.

    • ECAW says

      Mar 28, 2015 at 9:07 am

      “his own men killed him out of disgust with his greed and fat opulent lifestyle.”

      Really? Never heard that one. I thought the number one suspect was a Jewess whose male relatives he had killed.

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