Yet another non-Muslim assures us that the Islamic State is not Islamic. And once again, his analysis is based on comforting falsehoods about Islam that will not convince even one young Muslim who is considering joining the Islamic State not to do so. In that case, what is the effect of articles like this one? To keep Americans from getting nervous about rising Muslim populations, and to keep them ignorant and complacent about the full nature and magnitude of the jihad threat.
More below.
“What our president should say about Islam,” by Mark Cunningham, New York Post, March 1, 2015 (thanks to Budd):
…Let us begin with the so-called “Islamic State.” I’ve heard a few complaints about my saying the IS is not Islamic; let me clarify.
What the Islamic State is, is a cheap and horrible fake — a con job.
Consider: The IS claims to be restoring the “pure Islam” of a past era, either of the time of the Prophet and the early caliphs, or of the later, medieval caliphates.
Yet, what — beyond its snuff videos — is the IS most known for? For slaughtering Christians, Yezidis and other non-Muslims, or expelling them from areas it controls.
Strange: These very same peoples survived and even thrived under Islamic rule for more than a thousand years, including under all the caliphs that IS cites as upholding “true Islam.”
What the IS tells other Muslims about its brand of Islam, in other words, is an outright lie.
Unfortunately not. The Islamic State actually slaughtered Christians, Yezidis and other non-Muslims, or expelled them from areas it controls, as part of its endeavor to reimpose Islamic laws over those years. This is true because these people “survived and even thrived under Islamic rule for more than a thousand years, including under all the caliphs that IS cites as upholding ‘true Islam,'” when they submitted to Islamic hegemony, paid the jizya, and lived as dhimmis, in accord with Qur’an 9:29 and the Sharia rules that were elaborated from that passage’s command that non-Muslims in the Islamic State must “pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” But the Ottoman Empire, the last caliphate, abolished the dhimma under Western pressure in 1856. After that Christians in the areas the Islamic State controls were no longer second-class except insofar as the laws governing dhimmis remained as a cultural hangover in the area. Under the relatively secular states of the Assads in Syria and Saddam Hussein in Iraq, Christians and other non-Muslims had almost equal rights with Muslims.
Then came the Islamic State, and it wanted to reassert Islamic law. So it demanded that Christians submit and pay the jizya. When they refused, they were exiled or killed, in accord with Muhammad’s words: “Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war…When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them….If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them.” (Sahih Muslim 4294)
I submit to you that, as a simple matter of fact, Islam itself has prospered most when it has embraced such tolerance — and that we can see this from the time of the Prophet and beyond, when Islam exploded in a matter of decades from a handful of men to half the civilized world.
For, in the centuries before Mohammad, the Christian rulers of the Eastern Roman Empire had ruthlessly and bloodily sought to stamp out Christian worship that did not conform to their Orthodox faith. These savage campaigns decimated whole populations.
And then the Prophet and his armies rode in, and said to these Christians, and also the Jews, “Accept our rule and you may worship as you will — you’ll just have to pay a tax.”
No, this wasn’t much like the religious tolerance now practiced in the West. But it was far greater tolerance than the Byzantine Christians offered.
Cunningham’s ignorance of Islamic history is embarrassing. Muhammad is supposed to have died in 632. The Arab conquest of Eastern Roman imperial holdings began after that. The closest Muhammad got, according to Islamic tradition, was his attempted attack on the Byzantine imperial garrison at Tabuk, but the Byzantines left before he got there.
Cunningham reflects another widely held falsehood when he suggests that the Christians and Jews had it better under the Muslims than under the Byzantines. Islamic tradition has the caliph Umar making a telling admission in a message to an underling: “Do you think,” he asked, “that these vast countries, Syria, Mesopotamia, Kufa, Basra, Misr [Egypt] do not have to be covered with troops who must be well paid?” Why did these areas have to be “covered” with troops, if the Muslim invaders were more tolerant than the Byzantines?
This principle of tolerance continued to bolster Islam and its culture for centuries. Maimonides, one of the greatest Jewish sages of all time, lived his entire life under Muslim rule — enriching not only Jewish understanding, but also laying the groundwork for thinkers of Islam’s Golden Age, such as Avicenna, Averroes and Al-Farabi.
Actually, Maimonides lived for a time in Muslim Spain and then fled that supposedly tolerant and pluralistic land, remarking, “You know, my brethren, that on account of our sins God has cast us into the midst of this people, the nation of Ishmael, who persecute us severely, and who devise ways to harm us and to debase us….No nation has ever done more harm to Israel. None has matched it in debasing and humiliating us. None has been able to reduce us as they have….We have borne their imposed degradation, their lies, and absurdities, which are beyond human power to bear.”
But Mark Cunningham is able to publish this nonsense in the New York Post not just because he is an editor there, but because his soothing falsehoods coincide with what the Western world so desperately wants to believe. But that doesn’t make it any truer.
Yadja says
If anyone can weave a web of deceit it is the Liar in Chief O.
But with the way Islam is going about their PR he will have his work cut out for him. Unless he stops all the news from coming into America, which I am sure he would love to.
Bamaguje says
I’m not sure what Mark Cunningham means by “these very same peoples (Christians, Yazidis) survived and even thrived under Islamic rule for more than a thousand years.”
The numbers of Christians and Yazidis has declined markedly over several centuries of forced Islamization. In fact the Middle east was overwhelmingly Christian, before the rampaging Jihadist invaders came along.
Does Mr Cunningham really believe the vast majority of Christians and Yazidis who converted to Islam, voluntarily did so because of the superior benevolent and moral preachments of Islam?
Some “survival” indeed.
terry says
“Strange: These very same peoples survived and even thrived under Islamic rule for more than a thousand years, including under all the caliphs that IS cites as upholding “true Islam.”
These very people survived, not because of Islamic accommodation and loving care, stupid, but because of something, which I am sure is an alien notion to you and many other current westerners, called strong faith, unshakable iron clad courage and most probably something the atheist secular west always laughs at and looks on with contempt, called divine intervention or protection!
How I know that? I am a westerner who lived in the west for most of my life, meanwhile I had the privilege, also as part of my spiritual journey, to live for a while in several Muslim majority countries.
I had and still have well developed observation and analytic abilities, due to my professional training and innate propensity. I noticed something, which many years ago was very peculiar and I didn’t know its cause or significance.
I noticed it consistently, with a little bit of difference in its severity and forms, depending on certain circumstances, in all those Muslim majority countries. It was a subtle but sometimes very clear difference, between Muslims and Christians in their physical posture and how they interact in general and especially between their two groups.
In one country, I noticed several Christians in separate occasions when walking with me or with each other on the street, they tended to walk on the edges of the road, many, and this was even imprinted in my memory the hardest, in a closed or tight body position, with sometimes the head bent a little bit forward or lower, and yet it seemed very natural and unconscious to them. I never brought that to their attention or asked them about it. Now when I reflect back on that, I am sure that it was passed from one generation to the other without even being verbalized between them!
Compare that to what was completely the opposite, in the case of Muslims. They were almost always in open body position, with their arms always seemed to be thrown in every direction in the air. They also seemed to walk every where in the street, sometimes between cars, obviously having very few and not respected traffic rules didn’t help!
That’s not to mention what I was told in private by many Christians who had their own business, that their main clients or customers, if not the only ones, are other Christians. Besides it was given that Christians, especially business owners had to conform to any local applied Islamic rules, regarding prayer times, Islamic holidays and other changes or modifications deemed necessary on any religious ground. The precedent was in a so called progressive modern Muslim country, no joke!
In another Muslim majority country, it was even worse, where literally Christians lived in specifically well known areas, like in a state of non complete isolation. Most of them were poor working for mostly rich Muslims, literally like slaves.
In the meantime, not to mention the ever looming threat of having, at a moment’s notice, hell-like rage by Muslims unleashed on Christians in any locality due to a perceived to be or an imaginary insult by one of the Christians.
All those experiences were over 28 years ago, long before Robert Spencer started writing about Islamic supremacism and the truth about Islam’s belief system and ideology.
Of course many, many times I heard from Muslims about how they loved Christians and Jews and how they were living in peace together. B*ll S**t!
Rule of thumb with Muslims: Look at their actions in Muslim Majority countries, in any country with enough significant numbers for that matter, 2% or more, and the ever increasing poisonous fruits they are producing here in the west and never look at or take seriously what they say.
Results, actions and kind of fruits matter, not words!
Isthatso says
You see the same groveling is creeping into the west. Especially government.
Yadja says
I have read the Qur’an and studied the life of Muhammad. I also have studied the Crusades. Indeed the raiding hordes of Islamic barbarians swept across the world after Muhammad died like locusts destroying everything in site. Your right nobody wanted Islam they were forced.
The Seventh Crusade did it, they were at the gates of Europe and the Pope said enough. It is the Crusades all over again.
silvergreycat says
see also… http://www.umich.edu/~eng415/timeline/precursors.html
JOHN SPIELMAN says
i DUNNO, Cunningham seems to be able to a whopper of a lie about islam
Charles Martel says
A useful article.
The “Golden Age of Islam” canard is long overdue disabusing among the general public.
Islam’s military conquest of most of the classical world enabled it to appropriate its centres of excellence and the talented and educated individuals within it.
Subsequently sits back on its ‘Inshallah’ arse and dishonestly claims the credit for the work done by Greeks and Jews who were treated as second class citizens.
The tragedy is that none of this is taught in our left led educational establishments.
Champ says
“I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave. And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant.”
–H. L. Mencken
Hear, hear!
Rezali Mehil says
Assalamau Laikum Champ –
“I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave”.
Indeed Islam likes the truth…so I will tell you some home truths.
Obama will start to accelerate the support for Islam in these last two years – it is after all his faith.
Within these last two years of his presidency he will ensure that Iran becomes the de-facto local regional superpower in the ME – Indeed he will be replacing Israel with Iran …and they are *SHIA* ..and what do I keep telling you peoples to convert to? I will keep saying it so that you don’t trip up.
Iran have now shipped plane loads of shia in Lebonan, , the golan heights, Iraq and their top general is flying to lebonan and iraq to make it happen.
By the end of two years the I can see it …the sunni will be encircled by shia …as will Israel. The shia will also hold a nuclear weapon ( this is something I think they don’t really need…but Obama is the one who will be telling them otherwise…and helping them with the technology they need) so that Israel do not try something..
Do you know that Obama actually *threatened* to shoot down Israeli planes if they attacked Iran….Israel will be left to their own devices soon …that is going to be Obama’s legacy as he leaves office…with Iran in charge.
You see Champ..It is Iranian troops that will by Obama’s “boots on the ground” because you Americans are too chicken shit scared to deploy these days.
Like I said …over a million Muslims will enter the West in the next decade ….in at least one US state in this time…you will see queues of women *wanting * to convert ASAP. I sincerely hope that you are one of these …do not get left behind to pay the jizya…be sensible and pragmatic woman. Get the grandchildren in there 1st ..even if you have be a 2nd wife to an imam.
More Later …
Rezali
Foolster41 says
You gloat over the conquest of america by Sharia. Fascist.
Champ says
“rezali” wouldn’t know the *precious Truth* if it bit her in the behind …
Champ says
Question: “What is truth?”
Answer: http://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-truth.html
Yadja says
You underestimate the American people. We are more than willing to wipe the floor with every Muslim who thinks they will take out country. Matter of fact it is the Muslim in the WH who is the coward how many Muslims have been slaughtered now by his inaction.
By the way millions of us know what he wants but you best to walk carefully into this country because O is gone and we are armed and millions of us are home from the wars. We have armories all over this country, we have bases all over this country, individual Americans are armed to the teeth.
Keep dreaming Haji you come right on and we will show you what Americans will do to Muslims before you get here. Their mosques, their schools, their training camps, their stores, their areas where they are gathered in No-Go-Zones good you don’t mesh, we know just where to find you.
Ernie says
Rezali Mehil , you are a SLAVE voicing your MASTERS voice , and proud of it ,you fool ! WE , IN THE WEST QUESTION OUR LEADERS AND MAKE UP OUR OWN MINDS , and we WILL fight your kind of ” truth ” and if it comes to that , WE WILL FIGHT AND ERASE YOU from the face of the earth . Underestimating our will to fight you , underestimating our strength , and what we stand for will be your demise . The day is near : Iran will be free , or annihilated .
laura r says
that means dont read the NYP or the NYTs. read jihad watch & some other good publications.
Rebecca says
wow! love the comeback quote from Maimonides! The NY post article fails to mention that the family of Maimonides had to flee when faced with a choice to convert to Islam or die.
fact is, Jews were treated better by the muslims than by the christians. that isn’t saying much!!! Jews children would be kidnapped by muslims, then forcibly converted. Then, since the muslim penalty for leaving the faith is death, they would be threatened with death if they returned back to their families and Judaism. Jews were given less rights, were put into separate neighborhoods. At times Jews were massacared, such as in Fez and Morroco after a Jewish person treated a muslim woman in an offensive manner.
traci94 says
When will people wake up and read real history and real news sources? ISIS is always quoting chapter and verse of the Qu’ran; why don’t our journalists, politicians and the American people look at that? Well…whatever they want to call it at this point, the main issue is what in hell are we going to do about these people that are growing, expanding, and chopping heads, burning people, crucifying them, etc.? What is our plan going to be? Just wait it out and hope they disappear? Keep our collective heads in the sand and keep insisting that Islam is a religion of peace as they come for us and our country? These plans aren’t working too well. What is it going to take to get our government (and governments around the world) to take more action??
Champ says
obama is *nothing* more than a mouthpiece for his father the devil …
“You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” — John 8:44
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/03/18/article-2295082-18BFDB35000005DC-609_634x380.jpg
sandy says
Cunningham is a crypto-moslem. Throughout the whole article he never refers to mo by his real name rather he uses the title “the prophet”. Sounds like something only a moslem would do.
Champ says
Whoa!
Today: “King of Jordan wants to wage ‘WW3’ on ISIS”
http://rt.com/news/236837-jordan-king-abdullah-isis/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome
Excerpt:
King Abdullah of Jordan has called the battle against the Islamic State “World War 3” in what is a “generational fight” to overcome these “outlaws of Islam.” Speaking to CNN, he implored all religions to come together, adding “this is our war.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indeed, we are in a holy war with islam and company; but obama is such a feckless leader, that he can’t bring himself to state this basic fact.
silvergreycat says
*…King Abdullah of Jordan has called the battle against the Islamic State “World War 3” in what is a “generational fight” to overcome these “outlaws of Islam.”* See also…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1lH_oYLE3E
in reply to the fool says
Did this fool Mark Cunnigham read more than one history book in his “research” on Islamic history? The so-called flowering of Islamic rule always and I mean always eventually resulted in vicious reprisals against anyone who strove too far away from the “holy book of Islam.” Why is it the only “religion” that has in-built racism, hatred, and killing instructions in it? Why is it that over 20 million Indians have lost their lives to this “religion”? Why is Asia Bibi in jail? Answer those questions Cunningham. Of all the Islamic apologists that have written articles with the aim to deceive this would have to be the worst article I have EVER read…and that is saying something. fabrication, lies and a lack of knowledge…he got the mixture just right.
ECAW says
Built in racism? Where do you find that? I see only religiously based hatred, borne out by Rebecca’s post above:
“Jews’ children would be kidnapped by muslims, then forcibly converted. Then, since the muslim penalty for leaving the faith is death, they would be threatened with death if they returned back to their families and Judaism”
Wow says
I just stumbled across this (horrifying):
http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.929/sickening-isis-trick-mother-into-eating-her-kidnapped-son.html
Yadja says
Yes in Iraq when they found a family that was helping us they would take a child or a baby and feed it to the family. Surprised someone finally telling the truth.
Lots more needs to be said.
Salah says
Cannibalism *is* Islamic.
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.ca/2014/08/cannibalism-in-islam-taught-at-al-azhar.html
Wellington says
When the Byzantines (who are no longer around to defend themselves and how convenient this is) are put forth as the bad guys and the Muzzies as the good guys, right there I know it’s corrupt thought through and through.
Stunning the symbolic hoops loads and loads of clueless dhimmis will jump through in order to exculpate Islam yet again. What a fool you are, Mark Cunningham.
Angemon says
Let’s edit the title to match the content:
Oh, wait, it’s probably not need – it’s Barack “if you like your health plan you can keep it” Obama we’re talking about here.
Angemon says
Also, didn’t Barack already said pretty much what this article implies? That islam is tolerant, that the islamic state is un-islamic, the “golden age” of islam, etc. Do we really need him to parrot the same crap again?
vlparker says
Ah yes, the Golden Age of Islam. All of the wonderful sculptures and paintings. All of the beautiful musical masterpieces. All of the plays and literature that owe their existence to the Golden Age of Islam. Lord, how I hate progressive liars.
Salah says
We shouldn’t forget Islam’s contributions to “medicine” and “astrology”… (sarc/off)
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.ca/2013/06/islamic-medicine.html
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2013/06/islamic-astronomy.html
William Lucas HarveyJr. says
More of the Taqiyya and Kitman,”Tactics”, from Muslim Sympathizing “Rags” like the New York Post, and worse yet our Islam, Muslim Sympathizing Imperial “Leader”, Barack Hussein Obama, Jr., that they are feverously attempting to use to lull Americans, especially those un-informed, into a false sense of “Security” as to threat from Muslim Islamists.
Again – Taqiyya and Kitman are the terms for Islamic “Allowed” Lying and Deception, used to advance the cause of Islam, by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.
Fortunately there is available MUCH Reliable and Factual Information, in printed Material, and on the Internet in such Sites as:
1. Jihad Watch
2. Creeping Sharia
3. Bare Naked Islam
4. Pamela Geller-Atlas Shrugs
5. Islam Watch-Historyscooper
6. Muslim Issue
7. Middle East Forum
8. The Religion of Peace
9. Voice in the Desert
10. Gatestone Institute
11. World Press (Stop the Islamization of America)
12. World Net Daily
13. Counter Extrremism Project
14. Florida Family Association
15. Times of Israel
16. Frontpage Magazine
17. Act for America (The Dangers of Allah)
18. Chrisatian Post
19. Walid Shoebat
et.al.
There are many others if you look for them, but take care. There are some that will Defend Islam, and call you “Islamophobic” and “Bigoted” if you are Anti-Islam.
Lucretius says
“Maimonides, one of the greatest Jewish sages of all time, lived his entire life under Muslim rule — enriching not only Jewish understanding, but also laying the groundwork for thinkers of Islam’s Golden Age, such as Avicenna, Averroes and Al-Farabi.”
Maimonides 1135 or 38 to 1204
Al-Farabi. 872 to 950
Avicenna. 980 to 1037
Averroës
michael johnson says
if this Cunningham guy thinks islam is so great why dosent he leave the west and go live in the middle east then we will see what he says
Lucretius says
“Maimonides, one of the greatest Jewish sages of all time, lived his entire life under Muslim rule — enriching not only Jewish understanding, but also laying the groundwork for thinkers of Islam’s Golden Age, such as Avicenna, Averroes and Al-Farabi.”
Maimonides 1135 or 38 to 1204
Al-Farabi. 872 to 950
Avicenna. 980 to 1037
Averroës. 1126 to 1198
How does that work, Mr Not-so-Cunning-ham?
pumbar says
He’s a cultural marxist. Dates (and facts) don’t matter.
David says
This is where you are all missing the que. The Quran itself condemns ISIS and groups such as these who are using their interpretations of ‘The Day of Judgement’ which is all what Iran and all terrorist groups use as their focus to recruit and enlist and commit atrocities.
The Quran itself condems these groups as non Islamic as they use the Quran for their own selfish purposes and the Quran clearly, very, very clearly disassociates itself from these people in this verse.
The Quran condemns them in Sura 3:7
He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except God. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:” and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding. S. 3:7 Y. Ali
It is He who sent down upon thee the Book, wherein are verses clear that are the Essence of the Book, and others ambiguous. As for those in whose hearts is swerving, they follow the ambiguous part, desiring dissension, and desiring its interpretation; and none knows its interpretation, save only God. And those firmly rooted in knowledge say, ‘We believe in it; all is from our Lord’; yet none remembers, but men possessed of minds. Arberry
Wellington says
Get lost, David. The Koran is the single most horrible work of religious literature ever composed. It is ridiculously and nauseatingly repetitive. It is full of hate (e.g., Sura 98:6). It is essentially a war manual for a religion to wage war on humanity “until all religion is with Allah” (Sura 8:39). And you can stick its allegories and hidden meanings (and abrogations too) where the sun never shines.
I despise the Koran, David, as I despise the character of Mohammed, which is replete with psychopathic, narcissistic and pedophiliac characteristics, among other negatives. Really, David, you are a clueless man. Big time. Get lost.
ayatollahowmany says
SECONDED. As many times as possible.
Islam is filth, depravity, savagery, barbarity- to name just a few of its better qualities.
terry says
“The Quran itself condemns ISIS and groups such as these”
David, you’re getting on my nerves with your overwhelming ignorance!
Know Thy Enemy says
Your attempts at obfuscation will not work here David! Quran Sura 3 Ayat 7 is simply commanding Muslims not to take the verses of Quran as something that has hidden meanings, or as allegories. It is asking Muslims to read and understand the verses exactly as they are written. Those who do so, the ayat praises them by calling them “firmly grounded in knowledge”, and “men of understanding”.
Which verses of the Quran is the ISIS taking as allegorical? Or as verses with hidden meanings? “Day of judgement” is an idea, or concept. “Day of judgement” is not a verse of Quran!
So again- Which verse of Quran are the IS jihadis interpreting in such a way so as to violate Quran 3:7 ??
Angemon says
David posted:
“This is where you are all missing the que. The Quran itself condemns ISIS and groups such as these who are using their interpretations of ‘The Day of Judgement’ which is all what Iran and all terrorist groups use as their focus to recruit and enlist and commit atrocities.
The Quran itself condems these groups as non Islamic as they use the Quran for their own selfish purposes and the Quran clearly, very, very clearly disassociates itself from these people in this verse.”
The islamic state is, for example, collecting jyziah, per 9:29, killing apostates as per 2:217, and capturing and keeping sex slaves, as per 4:24.
If the quran claims to be the clear word of God but it can, in fact, be “perverted” then it’s not the word of God. If the islamic state are acting in accordance to what the quran states, then they’re the ones practicing the true islam. Pick your poison.
David says
Obama’s reference to ‘perversity’ that ISIS perverts Islam is found in Sura 3:7. Where those who pervert the Quran are condemned.
Obama is RIGHT on that one.
terry says
I dare you, stupid *ss h*le, to go and tell that, face to face, to ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Shabab, Al Qaeda…..etc.
Cowards and hypocrites, like you, if they really care about Islam’s reputation should be concentrating on those who are supposedly tarnishing it, such as the groups mentioned above.
When was the last time you heard about the Pope, other Christian leaders or regular Christians distancing themselves and the bible from horrendous crimes committed all over the world, in abundance every day, by people claiming doing that in the name of Jesus Christ and/or the Bible?
Beheadings of Muslims, raping Muslim women in front of their husbands and families, burning infidels alive, killing anyone who converts from Christianity, invading whole Muslium villages and kidnapping its Muslims, slaughtering each other, doing all of that evil while shouting Jesus is greater, and then posting it all on YouTube and social media sites!
David says
All this site is proving is that people with ill intent can cherry pick the Quran and use their own interpretation to create mischief but like selectively presenting verse 2:191
Other sites against Islam strangely also start their attack on Islam with 2:191??? That these people are so bottom of the barrel astounds me. That gullible and naive listeners who hate Islam lend willing ears is deplorable. It is an INJUSTICE. Look at verse 2:190 which haters of Islam refuse to quote or explain and you will find it says clealy Muslims are ‘not to begin hostilities or attack first as it is an INJUSTICE. Those who have perverted views of course ignore this verse including ISIS etc
O SON OF SPIRIT! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes.
WHY isn’t 2:190 ever quoted on these Islam haters sites?
“And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice”
Excerpt From: Muhammad. “The Koran translated by Rodwell.”
There’s a whole host of translations in English that CLEARLY forbid terrorism and aggression by Muslims and only permit SELF DEFENSE but all these Muslim haters sites begin their quotes from 2:191??????
The Quran does NOT support any for of terrorism. Obama is spot on and his advisors have given him clearly verse 3:7 about those who pervert the meaning of the Quran as well as 2:190.
Jay Boo says
Muhammad cherry picked his supposed ‘revelations’
Muhammad expected his followers to believe that the supposed god of the universe had nothing better to do than to desire that Muslims who leave Islam to be killed along with any supposed adulteresses who choose to escape their brutal Qur’an mandated sex slavery from their Allah approved child-bride wife-beating husbands all the while that these same sexually weak-willed husbands are permitted to pay off the nearest imam to hire temporary (wives) and have up to four full time wives so they won’t be inconvenienced in the least with temptations of adultery.
Wow What a pig bath is this Islam.
Muhammad got caught claiming to be tricked by the devil trying to ‘explain’ his satanic verse 53:19.
Muslims in a panic recently cherry-pick that verse to sanitized.
Liars follow in their example of Muhammad.
Salah says
“Muhammad cherry picked his supposed ‘revelations’ ”
Spot on, Jay Boo. Even little Aisha knew it when she told Muhammad:
“Verily, your Lord (Allah) is ever quick to fulfill your whims and desires”
(Bukhari 7.62.48)
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2012/10/muhammads-pimp.html
Wellington says
I din’t give you Sura 2:191, David. I gave you Sura 98:6 and Sura 8:39. And here’s a few more: Sura 8:60, Sura 9:5 and Sura 47:4. If you’d like another dozen or so that prove that the Koran is full of hate and is the worst excuse for a holy book, let me know.
Know Thy Enemy says
Now you are outright lying David! Nowhere in Quran 2:190 does it say “…..but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice”! Here is what the ayat actually says (Dr. Mohsin’s translation) –
“ And fight in the Way of Allâh those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors. [This Verse is the first one that was revealed in connection with Jihâd, but it was supplemented by another (V.9:36)].”
Tafsir Ibn Kathir explains what Allah means by “transgress not the limits”-
This Ayah means, `Fight for the sake of Allah and do not be transgressors,’ such as, by committing prohibitions. Al-Hasan Al-Basri stated that transgression (indicated by the Ayah), “includes mutilating the dead, theft (from the captured goods), killing women, children and old people who do not participate in warfare, killing priests and residents of houses of worship, burning down trees and killing animals without real benefit.” This is also the opinion of Ibn `Abbas, `Umar bin `Abdul-`Aziz, Muqatil bin Hayyan and others. Muslim recorded in his Sahih that Buraydah narrated that Allah’s Messenger said:
(Fight for the sake of Allah and fight those who disbelieve in Allah. Fight, but do not steal (from the captured goods), commit treachery, mutilate (the dead), or kill a child, or those who reside in houses of worship.)
It is reported in the Two Sahihs that Ibn `Umar said, “A woman was found dead during one of the Prophet’s battles and the Prophet then forbade killing women and children. ” There are many other Hadiths on this subject.
(Source of tafsir- http://www.islam-universe.com/tafsir_ibn_kathir/2.5000.html )
Yadja says
The Qur’an has over 100 verses on Jihad and it has nothing to do with a personal journey from within.
The Qur’an is what it is and the fact that the Middle East is on fire in the name of Allah is proof that the problem is the Qur’an.
It is the Muslims like Sisi, the King of Jordan and others who are also deriding ISIS and showing the world that there indeed are those Muslims who are capable of living in peace and that tells me that the Qur’an and it’s interpreters are different.
Just as there are many different Sects of Christians following the same Bible so there are many different Sects in Islam following the Qur’an.
And don’t even attempt telling me about the verses in the Bible that are violent, the bottom line is it is not Christians slaughtering, maiming, stoning, hanging, crucifying, burning alive all over the world daily but it is Muslims.
Angemon says
David posted:
“All this site is proving is that people with ill intent can cherry pick the Quran and use their own interpretation to create mischief but like selectively presenting verse 2:191
Other sites against Islam strangely also start their attack on Islam with 2:191??? That these people are so bottom of the barrel astounds me. That gullible and naive listeners who hate Islam lend willing ears is deplorable. It is an INJUSTICE. Look at verse 2:190 which haters of Islam refuse to quote or explain and you will find it says clealy Muslims are ‘not to begin hostilities or attack first as it is an INJUSTICE. Those who have perverted views of course ignore this verse including ISIS etc”
As I told you several times before, David (and you never attempted to refute), the context of 2:190-191 is the following:
Muhammad was driven out of mecca because he repeatedly insulted and derided the gods and the ancestors of the meccans. After going to Medina, he started raiding meccan trade caravans. One of those raids not only took place during the holy months, a time where the arab tribes agreed not to attack one another, but also resulted in the death of a meccan trader. When asked about it, muhammad (who was the ringleader of the muslim raiders and was entitled to 1/5th of the booty), started by saying he wanted nothing to do with it. However, he got a “revelation” saying that attacking the meccans was OK because it was retaliation for having been driven out of mecca.
And, of course, David leaves out, for example, 9:5 and 9:29 – chapter ) makes warfare against non-muslims for the reason of being non-muslims obligatory. And since chapter 9 was the last important chapter being revealed, what’s in it takes precedence over earlier, seemingly contradictory, verses.
Kasey says
Certainly President Obama needs to read the following link on Islam,indoctrination and radicalization!
https://thuppahi.wordpress.com/2015/02/25/the-real-consequences-of-islamic-indoctrination-mind-set-and-logic-with-24-items-for-discussion-and-debate/#more-15867