This is sure to cause a firestorm in Willfully Ignorant Britannia, but is he right? Let’s see:
2:191-193: “And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you; persecution is more grievous than slaying. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque until they should fight you there; then, if they fight you, slay them — such is the recompense of unbelievers, but if they give over, surely Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s; then if they give over, there shall be no enmity save for evildoers.”
4:34: “Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that Allah has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for Allah’s guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; Allah is All-high, All-great.”
4:89: “They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of Allah; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper.”
5:33: “This is the recompense of those who fight against Allah and His Messenger, and hasten about the earth, to do corruption there: they shall be slaughtered, or crucified, or their hands and feet shall alternately be struck off; or they shall be banished from the land. That is a degradation for them in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement.”
5:38: “And the thief, male and female: cut off the hands of both, as a recompense for what they have earned, and a punishment exemplary from Allah; Allah is All-mighty, All-wise.”
8:12: “When thy Lord was revealing to the angels, ‘I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast into the unbelievers’ hearts terror; so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them!'”
8:39: “Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s entirely; then if they give over, surely Allah sees the things they do.”
8:60: “Make ready for them whatever force and strings of horses you can, to terrify thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them that you know not; Allah knows them. And whatsoever you expend in the way of Allah shall be repaid you in full; you will not be wronged.”
9:5: “Then, when the sacred months are drawn away, slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, and perform the prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go their way; Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.”
9:29: “Fight those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden — such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book — until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled.”
9:111: “Allah has bought from the believers their selves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of Allah; they kill, and are killed; that is a promise binding upon Allah in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Koran; and who fulfils his covenant truer than Allah? So rejoice in the bargain you have made with Him; that is the mighty triumph.”
9:123: “O believers, fight the unbelievers who are near to you; and let them find in you a harshness; and know that Allah is with the godfearing.”
47:4: “When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then, when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds; then set them free, either by grace or ransom, till the war lays down its loads. So it shall be; and if Allah had willed, He would have avenged Himself upon them; but that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will not send their works astray.”
Ah, but those who will soon be rushing to brand Ashenden an “Islamophobe” will claim that the Bible has comparable passages. Actually, it doesn’t: there are violent passages in the Bible, but there is nary a single open-ended and universal command to all believers to wage war against all unbelievers and subjugate them.
“Islam can be a violent faith, says Queen’s chaplain: Canon expresses concerns about 100 passages in the Koran that ‘invite people to violence,'” by Jack Doyle, Daily Mail, March 12, 2015:
There are passages in the Koran which ‘invite people to violence’, one of the Queen’s chaplains said last night.
Reverend Canon Gavin Ashenden, the former chaplain of Sussex University and one of 35 who serve Her Majesty, expressed concern about more than 100 passages in the Muslim holy book.
But the Church of England priest declined to say whether parts of the Koran are ‘evil’, instead advising people to make up their own minds.
He was responding to comments by the Archbishop of Canterbury, who warned this week about being too quick to brand people with strong religious views ‘extremists’.
Yesterday, more than 60 imams and leaders of Muslim groups signed an open letter to the Government accusing it of criminalising Islam.
They claimed the ‘terror threat’ was being exploited for political capital ahead of the election, as ‘the big parties inevitably try to outdo each other in their nastiness’.
The signatories, which included journalist Yvonne Ridley and former Guantanamo detainee Moazzam Begg, criticised the ‘demonisation of Muslims in Britain … despite their disavowal of violence and never having supported terrorist acts’.
Rev Ashenden was responding to comments by Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby who has reportedly claimed young people are turning to jihad because mainstream religion is not ‘exciting’.
The Archbishop said Britain’s religious communities needed to do more to provide an alternative to extremism that gives youngsters a ‘purpose in life’.
But Rev Ashenden told LBC radio he was ‘attracted to Christianity because it invites people to the extremity of forgiveness and love’.
He added: ‘Islam has, I think, over 100 verses inviting people to violence in the Koran which Christianity doesn’t have.
‘If you’re going to invite people to be dedicated … followers of their scriptures, Christians will go around forgiving people and Islamists will do something else.’
Presenter Iain Dale said Muslims would say Islam was ‘entirely peaceful’, but Rev Ashenden said parts of the Koran ‘tell you to kill your enemies’.
He then quoted verses which he said urged Muslims to ‘strike off the heads’ of ‘those who disbelieve’.
When warned his comments could offend Muslims, he said: ‘If they are offended by my quoting the Koran they are not offended by me, they are offended by the Koran.’
He added: ‘If you’re going to talk about excitement in Christianity it’s about delivering people from evil and transforming people’s lives.’
Asked whether he would describe certain parts of the Koran as evil, he said: ‘I notice that they invite people to violence. I’ll let other people decide whether that’s good or evil.’…
dlp6666 says
‘If they are offended by my quoting the Koran they are not offended by me, they are offended by the Koran.’
This surely sums up the conundrum of the ‘normal’ moderate Muslims.
They can surely only disavow the violent parts of the Koran if their Islamic religious leaders so permit.
But if it is the permanently inviolable word of their prophet then surely that will never happen.
jayell says
“This surely sums up the conundrum of the ‘normal’ moderate Muslims.”
But I thought that it was now the informed consensus that the ‘normal moderate Muslim’ was the either a figment in the imagination of the PC multi-culti brigade or one of their deliberate fabrications?
Beagle says
The tiny minority of non-extremists is real. It has no power in Islam or the ulama.
mortimer says
Sharia law forbids a kafir from teaching about the Koran, so Ashenden is partly right. The Koran’s intolerant, violent verses are very offensive, and however they were intended, they are unfriendly and contradict the Golden Rule, perhaps intentionally.
While we have freedom of speech, let us demonize Islam’s hate-filled calls for violence against ‘disbelievers’. They deserve to be demonized.
Papa Whiskey says
We will always have freedom of speech, even if our so-called “leaders” outlaw it. As the Declaration of Independence says, we are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights, and that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That applies to all human beings, without exception.
Jay Boo says
“Sharia law forbids …” ///— Sharia law ???? That is an Oxymoron.
—————————-
Sharia — law
Islamic — religion
prophet — Muhammad
Islam is a joke.
starwish246 says
I would wear a ‘T’ shirt with the “Sharia, Islamic. and prophet” on it, but for the fourth row at the bottom, I would love to see just a BIG question mark – ?.
John C. Barile says
Yes, that’s the rub, Rev. Ashenden.
gravenimage says
Good to see you posting, John.
John C. Barile says
You make my day complete, GI.
mariam rove says
Who wants to bet that by the of this week either he is fired or they make him back track what he said? NM
cs says
It is likely, or misinterpreted, bu there is a good 30% of chances he will not take it back.
mortimer says
The Queen won’t have her appointee fired.
Babs says
It’s not very likely that he would have said it without her knowledge.
Descendantofacrusader says
Glad someone finally speaks of the 1000 yr. old Christian mandate to the English monarchy. I surely wouldn’t include Charles (the heir apparent) among these guardians of Christ seeing him dance around in his little fez cap in submission to “The Religion of Peace”.
mortimer says
Charles is using diplomacy to save lives, but you obviously aren’t deep enough to perceive it. Go crusade yourself.
The Doctor says
Mortimer,
everyone knows you’re a Muslim or at least a willing dhimmi.
Prince Charles is selling out his own people because he’s a coward. You are the one who is too shallow to see that appeasing the bully is not a good idea. That is exactly what Prince Charles is doing.
gravenimage says
Mortimer wrote:
Charles is using diplomacy to save lives, but you obviously aren’t deep enough to perceive it.
………………………………..
Mortimer—with all respect—the idea that it is necessary for the British heir apparent to fawn over Islam in order to save lives is deeply disturbing, as well, I’m afraid, as a pretty iffy proposition.
Here’s what he had to say about Muslim threats to the creators of the Danish MoToons, speaking at Cairo’s Al Azhar University:
“The recent ghastly strife and anger over the Danish cartoons shows the danger that comes of our failure to listen and to respect what is precious and sacred to others. In my view, the true mark of a civilised society is the respect it pays to minorities and to strangers.”
In other words, Infidels should not dare to point out the violence of Islam’s “Prophet”.
And this was nothing new—here is his reaction, as recounted by Martin Amis, on the 1989 reaction of Prince Charles to the Khomeini edict against Salman Rushdie:
“I had an argument with Prince Charles at a small dinner party. He said—very typically, it seems to me—’I’m sorry, but if someone insults someone else’s deepest convictions, well then…'”
In other words, those who dare criticize Islam or the “Prophet” *deserve* death threats or worse.
And here he is, as the first Western speaker at Riyadh’s Al Imam Mohammad Bin Saud Islamic University, saying that Jews and Christians should learn from Islam:
“What is so distinctive of the great ages of faith surely was that they understood, as well as sacred texts … the meaning of God’s word for all time and its meaning for this time. … it was Islam’s greatness to understand this in its full depth and challenge. This is what you … can give not only to Islam but by example to all the other children of Abraham.”
The above is just the tip of the iceberg. To be honest, I don’t see how such calls for dhimmitude does *anything* but further embolden Muslim violence.
Fly RAF says
Doc is right Morty. Your posts at times are highly questionable. Why is that? The Queen at her coronation took on the title of “Defender of the Faith” which was first bestowed on the English crown by king Lucius in the 300’s. Charlie boy in the past has said he will drop the word “the” from the title. Lets hope the queen bypasses him for William.
Jay Boo says
Reference to: “Doc is right Morty. Your posts at times are highly questionable.”
————————–
I will second that Fly RAF ,
I have in the past noticed others would seem to pick on poor morty and was at first I was puzzled as to why this was so.
mortimer will often offer up comments about Islam that deferentially phrases his comment the Muslim point of view such as:
“Sharia law forbids a kafir from teaching about the Koran …” as he did earlier here above.
Such reverence shows that Mortimer is at some level a “Qur’an whipped” admirer of the butcher knife religion who has one foot on the shore of ant-jihad and one foot on the boat of Qur’an worshipper ideology.
Frankly I am very surprised that vogelian is not all over this anti-jihad “Softy”
But that is another puzzle.
Jay Boo says
correction,
… voegelinian
gravenimage says
Jay Boo, I don’t believe that Mortimer in any way admires Islam. His posts over the long term have solidly shown that he has no love for the barbarism of Islam.
But—especially of late—he seems to be increasingly counseling dhimmitude, hoping we can secure some modicum of safety as a result.
I *do* understand that bloody Islam is becomingly more openly savage all the time, and that this has become especially marked in the past few years.
This is, frankly, *terrifying*. But I do not believe that appeasement will make us safer—just the opposite, in fact.
This is the only reason I have challenged his conclusions. I assure you I have *no* intention of “picking on” Mortimer, a poster whom I quite like. But I believe his counsel in these matters is unintentionally disastrous, and I cannot let it pass without comment.
FarmerMike says
Wow! One of the Queen’s chaplains, Rev Gavin Ashenden says:: “If they are offended by my quoting the Koran they are not offended by me, they are offended by the Koran.”
Then he adds: “If you’re going to talk about excitement in Christianity it’s about delivering people from evil and transforming people’s lives.”
Asked whether he would describe certain parts of the Koran as evil, he said: “I notice that they invite people to violence. I’ll let other people decide whether that’s good or evil”’…
If he still has the Queen’s ear, this might be the beginning of “Game Over” for Jihad in Britain!
ECAW says
People outside Britain often think that the monarch has power. This is not so but she does have influence and can order some ceremonial type things. For instance, I read somewhere that it was the queen who requested that the flag be flown at half mast over Westminster Abbey when the Saudi king died so don’t get your hopes up.
Don McKellar says
She’s just displaying the typical respect among fellow “royals” around the world that the English monarchy has always displayed. It doesn’t mean she might not suddenly come out and denounce Islam. It would be the crowning achievement to end a very distinguished reign, and be a noble move to try do the right thing and speak to truth to try and save Britain when all around are clueless or lying.
umbra says
The British monarch has reserve powers which evidently includes the removal/appointment of ministers (including the pm), decleration of war/peace, commanding the armed forces and more.
ECAW says
Really? She keeps them very much in reserve then.
G. Hardy says
Yes, ECAW, Her Majesty has those powers, and yes, she keeps them in reserve. We have an unwritten constitution which envisages the use of those powers only in extreme circumstances.
She has the power to declare war on France tomorrow, but she won’t. If she did, there would be an immediate full-blown constitutional crisis and downright disobedience in the military.
For your information, Her Majesty removed the prime minister of Australia, Gough Whitlam, in 1975.
ECAW says
Indeed. A power that cannot be used is not a power, just like free speech that must be moderated out of politeness is not free speech.
pumbar says
There are moments like this that make you go hmmm;
Michael Copeland says
It is diplomatic, but not quite accurate, of Mr. Ashenden to say that there are passages in the Koran that “invite” muslims to violence. The Koran COMMANDS it.
ECAW says
And fairly diplomatic of him, not to say a cop out, to leave it to others to decide whether inviting (yes, more accurately commanding) people to violence is evil.
Babs says
C’mon, at least admit that it’s significant that he mentioned it when other dozy C of E clergy, when they’re not actively sucking up to Islam, deny that it is a problem.
Thanks, Robert for publicising this so widely.
voegelinian says
Yes, the Counter-Jihad still must content itself with the crumbs that happen to drop from the Mainstream Table far above our cringing heads as we cower and crawl here on the Islamophobic floor desperate for sustenance of civic duty and sanity, kicked in the ribs, if not vilified and spat upon, when not arrogantly ignored by the Mainstream Diners of Polite (and Politically Correct) Society.
ECAW says
Yes, that’s true. I’ve corresponded with C of E clergymen and have found them wet beyond belief, sometimes actually coming out with the “You know there are violent passages in the Bible” line. Here’s one who says what should be obvious to anyone who’s ever picked up a Koran.
Will he have any influence among the Queen’s 34 other chaplains? Unlikely but the increasing incidence of pubic figures telling the truth, like the mainstream politician who recently spoke of a fifth column are encouraging aren’t they?
cs says
He did a great job there.
mortimer says
Sharia law demands that some, but not all, Muslims must conduct jihad at all times. So they are ‘invited’.
voegelinian says
All Muslims are commanded to conduct jihad at all times — the only variance is the flavor of jihad: will it be by the sword, by the pen, by the mouth, by deception, by false assimilation, by Hijra immigration-cum-infilitration-&-invasion? And whatever flavor is adopted, the Muslim in question must, of course, always maintain the “internal jihad” of the enormous discipline it takes to suppress his or her God-given conscience that normally would lead a person to love the good, but which, by the ingeniously demonic psychocultural mechanism of Islam, is in the hearts & minds of Muslims re-routed in demonic inverse — so that what is actually Evil is believed to be Good; and from there, War is Peace and Peace is War; Violence is “Justice”, Rape is Marriage, Obsession is Devotion, Hate is Love, Cruelty is Mercy, etc.
deja vu says
Well put, voegelinian.
‘Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes And clever in their own sight!’
Isaiah 5:20-21
Wellington says
Now, voegelinian, if only Western leaders would say what you have, though in plain English, Islam and Muslims in the West would be put on the defensive—–truly on the defensive and not the faux defensive that Muslims and their useful dhimmis regularly claim.
Again, putting aside our dispute on the wisdom and legality of mass deportation of Muslims from Western nations, the SINGLE most important event which has to occur is that, en masse in the West, including by the vast majority of Western elites, the conviction is formed that Islam is wretched, the only wicked faith among the major faiths of the world, and completely incompatible with basic Western rights and values. Should this occur then the rest of what needs to be done to prevent Islam from having its way in the West will follow as a matter of course (even without, if I dare say, that “mass deportation matter”). But should this not occur, and even assuming you are right about mass deportation and I am wrong, then the deadly nonsense will continue unabated. The sine qua non event in this greatest issue of our time is the mass recognition by the West that Islam is one very screwed up religion and that it deserves zero respect by people who live in free societies since Islam and freedom are mortal enemies of one another.
Jay Boo says
voegelinian you make some good points, but you give Mortimer a free pass when you fail to address the (TONE) of mortimer’s comment.
The following reverential example from the Muslim point of view by mortomer is typical.
“(Sharia law demands that some, but not all, Muslims must conduct jihad at all times. So they are ‘invited’.)”
Yet you instigate others for no good reason.
You must be going “Soft” on anti-jihad.
gravenimage says
Excellent post, Voeg.
deja vu says
Mortimer: ‘Sharia law demands that some, but not all, Muslims must conduct jihad at all times. So they are ‘invited’.
Your comment is contradictory. Some Muslims ‘must’ is a command, not an invitation. But why does Sharia law command or ‘invite’ violence against others *at all*?
This isn’t the mark of a ‘peaceful’ ideology but one of corrosive hatred against your fellow human beings, against life itself.
pumbar says
“Invitation” (dawat) always has a vague, threatening air to it. It’s like the three choices given to non-muzzies; invite them to islam, if they refuse order them to pay the jizya, if they refuse fight them. It’s all very “offer you can’t refuse-like”, not what we’d call an invitation.
Michael Copeland says
The Koran commands muslims to kill the filthy kuffar. Hear muslim spokesmen:
http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/index.php/news-libertygb/5789-ideology-of-killing
Islam’s followers are licensed to kill you. It is more than a licence: it is a command: “Kill the non-Muslims wherever you find them” (Koran 9:5).
http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/index.php/news-libertygb/6230-licence-to-kill-as-taught-in-mosques
Jeff says
The UK Parliament needs to designate Islam as a cult, not a religion and outlaw the Qur’an as hate speech and an incitement to violence.
mortimer says
It may come to that. It’s like banning smoking which has been legal for hundreds of years. We know both are toxic and cause death.
Charli Main says
” Baroness” Wazi and the Muslim Council of Britain would never allow it.
Cameron, Clegg and Miliband know their place in the Muslim scheme of things.
Remember the mantra of our political masters—–don´t upset the Muslims. It will make them angry–very, very angry.
voegelinian says
You can’t do that and think you can continue to abide the presence of the people who worship the Koran as the center of everything in their lives. Well, you can, if you insist on abstract fantasies that psychologically allow you to avoid facing hard choices (like deportation of Muslims).
Demsci says
The UK parliament, or that of any democratic nation, can do something else, which may be more feasible, carrying a majority, which designating Islam as a cult may never carry.
instead of designating Islam as a cult, or clear totalitarian anti-Democratic ideology. And being clearly and clear in that regard would have as consequence total opposition of Islam by the West, perhaps even real war on it, inside but also against 56 Islamic countries. The Autocratic states of China and Russia would immediately take advantage of this ensuing bitter animosity between Muslims and the West, which would be even bigger than it is already.
But maybe someday the pressure on Political Correct people will be high enough for them to finally admit/ declare that: Islam; Quran-Sunnah are, alas, regrettably, with all due respect etc.:
Too Ambiguous, Vague, Incomplete, Contradictory and Obsolete. Too prone to totalitarian, violent interpretation, which just as easily comes from them as a more benevolent, democracy-compatible interpretation.
Quran-Sunnah fail tests and responsible standards of Clarity, Completeness, Consistency, Contemporariness. Standards which Most Important Guides for Westerners do have. And if they don;t, they can be improved upon, while Quran-Sunnah may not be changed.
But they may be interpreted in VARIOUS ways.
And something should be done to distinguish the acceptable from the unacceptable interpretations from them.
Un-modified, uncritical acceptance of those irresponsibly problematic texts should gradually not be allowed unconditionally any more in democratic nations, which have to protect themselves from totalitarian and violent interpretations of Quran-Sunnah.
Pressure must be brought to Muslims to be just like mayor aboutaleb. Even if he is lying, he is still saying that his interpretation of Islam is un-problematic for both obeying Allah and the constitution of the Netherlands. Muslims should specify his interpretation of Quran-Sunnah and parliaments should examine and qualify it.
And Muslims must then distinguish clearly as being either ordinary Muslim or democratic Muslims. And the organisation of Democratic Muslims should be capable of kicking out members that revert to ordinary Islam.
Demsci says
A few years there was a conference on Islam and Democracy in Doha.
It featured the imperfect but maybe a little bit apposite analogy of the Sheep and the Goats among Western Democratic people. The sheep represent the ill-defined, highly variable, majority. many of whom are good-natured, but unaware of, because uninterested in thinking much about, the great significance of freedom and democracy, or interpreting those as being tolerant and loving and fair to all, including Muslims, whatever they think and do.
Naive sheep, majority. But …almost perfectly acceptable, only too careless.
But the goats, they ARE aware of the glory of the West and especially Democracy.
Just like the Muslims, maybe their biggiest opposite group, they know what they are FOR (and NOT only what they are AGAINST). And they have the MIG (texts) Most Important Guidilines to show for it. Albeit that these MIG-texts may vary and may be very concise for some. But they HAVE them, just like Muslims have Quran-Sunnah as MIG-texts. And the goat’s MIG-texts are the better ones, more clear, complete, consistent, contemporary.
Now the goats want to persuade the sheep help them. And to let both goats and sheep demand from the Muslims that they divide in
Wolves and Dogs. Wolves are perfectly in Islamic countries. But in Democratic countries in the long term we should reject Wolves but accept Dogs. We tend to think that wolves can be dangerous, but dogs can be trusted.
Wolves; unadulterated followers of Islam. Dogs; Muslims who have a quality mark of a different, democracy-compatible interpretation of Quran-Sunnah.
Who are being members of Democratic Muslim Organisations, who can kick out members, instead of preventing members to leave on pain of deathpenalty.
So let us pressure sheep to acknowledge the difference between wolves and dogs, and then together pressure Muslims to show the difference. Which they anyway always are implying, by saying that “Terrorists, Taliban, ISIS” are not Islamic.
gravenimage says
Demsci wrote:
Wolves; unadulterated followers of Islam. Dogs; Muslims who have a quality mark of a different, democracy-compatible interpretation of Quran-Sunnah.
…………………………..
Unfortunately, I don’t think we are seeing a lot of Muslim “dogs”, Demsci.
There is a reason, I think, that dogs are Haram in Islam.
Demsci says
Hi, Gi,
Your realism is noted, appreciated. Clutching at straws sometimes I am.
Well, then, let the goats (us) leave the sheep to the wolves; the sheep are too stupid to listen to us anyway.
Yes, we may lose some battles, but after the Byzantine empire was first “halved” by Islam, it’s emperor Constans II, thoroughly reorganized the remaining parts of it. Something which would have been impossible to do had there not been imminent danger of annihilation.
Yes, we may lose some territory, and those damned sheep, but the goats will reorganise and defend the remaining territory very well. As well as the Byzantine Empire that after that stood form for # 4 centuries (# 661-1071).
thomas pellow says
“QUEEN’S CHAPLAIN AGNOSTIC ON GOOD OR EVIL’ VIOLENCE IN THE QUR’AN”
http://archbishopcranmer.com/queens-chaplain-agnostic-on-good-or-evil-violence-in-the-quran/?
mortimer says
It’s a mistake to underestimate the awareness of jihad within the Church of England. It’s there. The archbishop of Canterbury has diplomatic functions that prevent outspokenness, but the Queen’s chaplain is speaking what is already common knowledge at the top. Jihad-awareness is penetrating from top to bottom.
Just because there are few C of E clerics speaking out (such as vicar of Baghdad Canon Andrew White and Canon Mark Durie) does not mean that the rest are naïve…far from it, in fact. They are just choosing their words carefully. A number of Anglican churches and parishioners have been hit in recent years.
gravenimage says
mortimer wrote:
The archbishop of Canterbury has diplomatic functions that prevent outspokenness, but the Queen’s chaplain is speaking what is already common knowledge at the top. Jihad-awareness is penetrating from top to bottom.
Just because there are few C of E clerics speaking out (such as vicar of Baghdad Canon Andrew White and Canon Mark Durie) does not mean that the rest are naïve…far from it, in fact. They are just choosing their words carefully. A number of Anglican churches and parishioners have been hit in recent years.
…………………………………..
Mortimer, I’m afraid that this is more than just “diplomacy”. Former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams recently said that Islam is “reviving British values”, and in 2008 asserted that Shari’ah law in Britain was “unavoidable”.
This sort of sickening dhimmitude does nothing but embolden violent Muslims—it *does not* make things safer.
And your idea that Anglican churches have been targeted because of voiced anti-dhimmitude from Church of England officials is mistaken—that fact is that Muslims have been attacking Christian churches all over Dar-al-Islam, regardless of the position of the high clergy.
Attacking Infidel places of worship is, in fact, a core tenet of Islam, and has been from the earliest days of the creed.
I notice that you have been vociferously defending dhimmitude in Britain of late. I know you became quite angry when it was suggested that it might make things safer for the British public if British soldiers actually proudly wore their uniforms.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/03/uk-teen-army-cadets-defy-jihad-threat-dhimmi-authorities-by-wearing-their-uniforms
Just in the last few days you have defended submission from the church, the monarchy, and the military, claiming it “saves lives”.
I’m sure you mean well—but the fact is that if all the major institutions of British life capitulate to Islam, then the British people will be more undefended than ever. This will *not* save lives in the long run—instead, it will it far easier for Muslims to slaughter the brave few who *do* stand up regardless, as well as to cow the rest to passively submit to the savagery of Islamic oppression. One look at countries under Muslim rule will tell you that they are not safer for *anyone*—least of all Infidels.
Jay Boo says
Mortimer let me hand you a surrender towel to throw into the ring.
The towel will say “Islam means willing submission”
Don McKellar says
Prince Chuck must be in a furore over this one! He knows better as an expert on Islam, that it is a religion of peace and that we’re all better off adopting Islamic values!
Joe Shmo says
Another step, at least this one seems to be in the right direction. I hope there’s much more of this to come.
Papa Whiskey says
Be it noted that the ignoble Qur’an doesn’t “invite” Muslims to violence — it commands them to carry it out.
Linde Barrera says
You Brits are great! First, you give the world The Beatles (I was 13 when they came to the USA) and now I am getting truthful perspectives about the religion of Islam. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. And thank you to Robert Spencer and his contacts for this valuable website. AND, I am so glad that the Rev. Ashenden came out and said what he said. It’s like “1 small step for a man, and 1 giant step for mankind.”
ECAW says
But it’s such a small step, merely stating what we call “the bleedin’ obvious”.
I fear you may be being sarcastic Linde.
gravenimage says
UK: Queen’s chaplain says there are Qur’an passages that “invite people to violence”
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Good to finally hear some common sense from a member of the Church. But yes, this simple statement of fact is bound to elicit a chorus of shouts of “Islamophobia!”, both from Mohammedans and from useful idiots and the clueless.
More;
He was responding to comments by the Archbishop of Canterbury, who warned this week about being too quick to brand people with strong religious views ‘extremists’.
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This is a straw man. Everybody knows that “extremist” is shorthand for “Jihad terrorist”, and not for someone who, say, keeps absolutely strict Kosher, goes abroad as a missionary, tithes twenty percent of their income to the church, or hands out copies of “The Watchtower” on the bus.
And why not? Because these latter *present no threat* to people who do not share their religious views.
More:
Yesterday, more than 60 imams and leaders of Muslim groups signed an open letter to the Government accusing it of criminalising Islam.
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This is only true if one believes that waging violent Jihad is an intrinsic part of practicing Islam. Oh, wait…
More:
They claimed the ‘terror threat’ was being exploited for political capital ahead of the election, as ‘the big parties inevitably try to outdo each other in their nastiness’.
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Attempting to prevent Jihad terror is “nastiness”—note no sign that they consider Jihad terror *itself* to be nastiness.
More:
Rev Ashenden was responding to comments by Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby who has reportedly claimed young people are turning to jihad because mainstream religion is not ‘exciting’.
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Really? Why is this *just Muslims*, then? You don’t find young Christians or Jews or Hindus or Buddhists as a rule obsessed with violence.
More:
The Archbishop said Britain’s religious communities needed to do more to provide an alternative to extremism that gives youngsters a ‘purpose in life’.
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I get sick of the idea that Christianity, Judaism, and Western society in general don’t offer any purpose in life. Right now, there are young people studying medicine and the arts and high tech, readying themselves to contribute to society.
The fact is that the free West has nothing to offer those who seek violent supremacism and brutal oppression—except, of course, for a tantalizing target.
And the fact is that even if you accept the clichéd idea that the West is nothing but materialistic and empty, it wouldn’t explain why you find young Muslims turning to Jihad violence *in just the same way* in very different societies around the world. It is not just “post-Christian” free-market societies that see this phenomenon.
Kudos to Reverend Ashenden for sticking up for his own Christian faith—perversely, a rarity in these mad times—and for telling the truth about Islam. I hope he doesn’t back down.
gravenimage says
I wish I could believe that, Westman. But just because Mohammedans like Western consumer goods *does not* mean they have in any way adopted our values.
Pious Muslims just look at us a source of rich booty, like any other wealthy Infidel “empire”, only more so.
As for European Jihadists returning to the West, in most cases it is not because they have abjured violent Jihad, but because they want to *wage violent Jihad here*.
Neil Jennison says
A C of E vicar who has a brain, believes in God and talks sense?
Strange world!
Champ says
“Ah, but those who will soon be rushing to brand Ashenden an “Islamophobe” will claim that the Bible has comparable passages. Actually, it doesn’t: there are violent passages in the Bible, but there is nary a single open-ended and universal command to all believers to wage war against all unbelievers and subjugate them.” — Robert Spencer
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True. Many will use this false narrative to deceive others to detract from the ugly TRUTH about islam and company …
vlparker says
Glad to hear him say it. Too bad the queen herself didn’t say it. She was all up in arms about the Scottish vote for independence last year. Heaven forbid the rabble would engage in democracy and actually choose their leaders. But she seems to have no problem with the islamic takeover of Great Britain. Not a peep from her about it. And her dimwit dhimmi son aiding and abetting the invaders. Queen Elizabeth II will go down in history as the queen who lost Britain to islam because she was too cowardly to speak up against it.
ecosse1314 says
Good post…..to be honest I have little interest in what Lizzie Battenburg and her scrounging off-spring have to say or do. They are increasingly irrelevant in the UK and obsolete in Scotland.
As for her so-called powers they may exist on paper but in effect her and her dysfunctional family wield no power whatsover
vlparker says
She has no political power but she still has a soapbox and could be very influential on islam if she chose to be. If she came out and told the truth about islam and jihad it would certainly cause a firestorm in the press and it might encourage some politicians to take off the PC blinders.
Nathan says
F’kin hell, so they have only just started reading it!!!
It’s been available ‘in all good book stores’ for the last 1,400 years!
I despair, I really do.
I suppose she is German, so it looks a lot like mein kampf. It’s an easy mistake to make….. 🙁
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
Whoa, did somebody hit this guy upside the haid? Invite people, some passages… how about command people in a consistent them throughout, the Cause. Hit him up the other side and maybe he’ll get abrogation.
gerard says
“This is sure to cause a firestorm..”
We’ll see…
jayell says
With a bit of luck this is the beginning of the end for Islam in the UK. You’d have thought that they’d have seen the light after 9/11, 7/7, the murder of lee Rigby and the incessant lunatic rantings of scum like Anjem Choudhary but no, those-who-must-be-obeyed kept pushing the official ‘cock-eyed optimist’ delusion about Islam. Then the disgusting Jihad John thing blew up which totally repulsed the public especially after the appalling scale of the national muslim sex-gang scandal had come out into the open. This was further compounded by the pathetic weasel-word, victim-status, ‘everyone-else-is-to-blame’, outrageous “Mohammed Emwazi is a beautiful gentle man’ ramblings of the idiot Qureshi (of the CAGE charity) which clearly rattled the press, media and establishment, followed by a similar load of brainless, impertinent, responsibility-ducking verbal garbage from the families of three stupid teenage girls who ran off to Syria to become Jihadi brides. From the things that were beginning to be let slip by those influential persons who normally keep their mouths under control, it was now becoming obvious that everyone in the UK, from top to bottom, was now pretty well totally p*ssed off with the UK muslim community and weren’t covering up for them anymore. Now this. The great politically-correct, formerly-islam-supporting C of E, in the person of no less than the Queen’s chaplain, comes out of the closet with the velvet sledge hammer scarcely concealed under the priestly robes with the clear message that a demolition job is on the cards. Notice how the Rev. Ashenden avoided denying the premise that Islam might be ‘evil’, then think back 9 years to the 2006 show trial where Nick Griffin of the BNP was nearly imprisoned for simply saying what the Rev. Ashenden was implying here. We certainly seem to have come some way now, and the muslim establishment in the UK might whinge and ‘demand’ as much as they like with their self-important 61-signature statements in the press, but in the end they haven’t got a leg to stand on. It looks like the game’s up. They and all the rest of their ‘community’ have to accept that there’s now a new antipathetic line towards Islam in the UK. This is just the beginning and it’s going to harden, and the reason is simply that, through a combination of collective arrogance and crass stupidity, they’ve blown it, and they’ve ‘blown it’ so well that there’s no going back.
Nathan says
+1
What can I add? 😀
Michael Warden says
Worth your while looking at :
http://gatesofvienna.net/2014/09/its-in-the-koran-2/
and anything else by David Wood, Pat Condell, Jeanine Pirro, Brigitte Gabriel.
Happy watching.
jayell says
Hello Michael Warden. I’ve watched Pat Condell for years, got his DVD’s and his books. He’s really on the ball, tells it how it is no matter whom he upsets (have you seen his hate mail? The muzzies really don’t like him, I wonder why!). I’ll follow up the others you mention.
bobm says
why all this silly high brow ecclesiastical speculation…. (chrislam)…..time to purge the mind boys and girls….. you need go no further than this….. 1 John2:22….. he that denieth the Father and Son is a liar….. he is ANTICHRIST………..YES ANTICHRIST ……… that would be islam chaps……. the trickster god one …….that lies from root to fruit……. get it ?………….what fellowship hath LIGHT with darkness?……HMMMMMMMMMMM???…. HER MMMMMMMajestys religious functionary?…
danny says
Had Britain listened to Wiston Churchill on the grave dangers of Islam, they will not find themselves in this mess.
Michael Warden says
Just in case American readers are not familiar with what the great man said, I include the following :
” How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property – either as a child, a wife, or a concubine – must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. ……… “
duh_swami says
Three little words that forever changed the world…’Fight them until…’ This is an order not an invitation…
No pious Mahoundian is exempt from this. Because ‘until’ can never be achieve, perpetual warfare is the result. Which has the added benefit in that it keeps the gate to Paradise and those virgins open for martyred jihadi’s…Allah was really brilliant when he wrote ‘Fight them until’, in his book…Allah thinks of everything.
AbduPhathah Husseinni says
True and unfortunately many people are dying because of this passages.
Anita Pabkov says
Can the Muslims reform the Koran?
pumbar says
Does the Pope sh!t in the woods?
Charli Main says
The Koran is claimed to be the instructions of Allah, delivered directly to Mohammed.
Muslims CANNOT reform, modify or change in any way Allah´s ( alleged ) instructions to them. That would be akin to stating that Allah is not perfect and Muslims have had to correct ” God” ie blasphemy.
duh_swami says
How do you reform the perfect living words of the perfect god? What Mahoundian or group of Mahounedianbs are willing to do that, knowing they are going to have to explain it to Allah at some point…’I thought some of the verses in your book were a little inconvenient, so I changed some, deleted some and ignore others…I hope you don’t mind’…Allah keeps a pot of boiling water on the stove just for these occasions.
pumbar says
Only Allan gets to do that when he realises he’s made a mistake and has to abrogate it
Marty says
It’s nice to find the odd Anglican who faces up to the truth on Islam.
One of the most distinguished large churches in London was recently thrown open to mohammedans for a full heathen service, including groveling on the floor.
The vicar, first name unsurprisingly Giles, claimed to “love Allah”.
Plenty of UK Anglican, state subsidised church schools are now virtually 100% muslim, with Christian teachers converting to islam.
The UK is stepping up its rate of suicide.
ECAW says
Yes, whatever you do don’t tell Robert Spencer:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11468013/Muslim-prayers-in-Church-of-England-parish.html
I wonder if they included the prayer for victory over the kuffar.
watling says
Yvonne Ridley converted to Islam after suffering a severe dose of Stockholm Syndrome after being kidnapped by the Taliban while working as a journalist in Afghanistan.
She voluntarily decided to become a second class citizen and now wears the hijab and goes around the UK saying how wonderful Islam is. Not sure if she’s been to Rotherham yet.
Oliver says
Good for him, I’m glad some people are speaking out and being honest about how there are parts of the Koran (and swathes of the hadiths) that are problematic and are being used to incite people to violence and intolerance, rather than people just saying this has “nothing to do with Islam”
mark van der wal says
When i was younger we always sang the song God save the Queen. May He do so and save us all from the evil that surrounds us,thank you for printing the statement of the chaplain.
gravenimage says
One small, imperfect step forward with this story, one giant leap backward with this one:
“UK: Anglican vicar holds Muslim prayer service in his church, asks congregation to praise ‘the god that we love, Allah’”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/03/uk-anglican-vicar-holds-muslim-prayer-service-in-his-church-asks-congregation-to-praise-the-god-that-we-love-allah
Jerry says
God created the universe and created life including man.
Then man created religion in his own image.
That’s why Islam is so evil.