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Video: UK Muslim spokesmen explain Islam’s death penalty for apostasy, hilarity ensues

Mar 18, 2015 6:44 am By Robert Spencer

This BBC program features ex-Muslim Amal Farah of the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain (CEMB) and several Muslim spokesmen discussing Islamic law’s death penalty for apostasy. Farah, despite her affiliation with CEMB, which is often more concerned with smearing and demonizing genuine critics of jihad terror and Islamic supremacism than with actually defending apostates from Islam, the one sane and rational voice in the discussion.

The Muslim spokesmen, by contrast, practice various forms of evasion and deflection, claiming victim status repeatedly. Abdullah al-Andalusi of the ironically named Muslim Debate Initiative is the worst, ascribing Islam’s death penalty for apostasy to “Victorian translations” and claiming that it is only a law in “post-colonial secular states,” and pouting that the BBC is conducting an “Inquisition court.” Note also how he dodges the question of whether or not he condemns the words of UK imam Haitham al-Haddad, who has defended the death penalty for apostasy.

After that, Usama Hasan, author of The Way of the Prophet: A Selection of Hadith comes across as honest and forthright, but in reality, his obfuscation is just more sophisticated than al-Andalusi’s. He claims that the apostasy law is a product of the early Muslim states, never mentioning what the author of a hadith collection should know and undoubtedly does know: that according to a hadith, Muhammad said: “Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him” (Bukhari 9.84.57). This distinction is important, because if the death penalty for apostasy comes from the early Muslim states, it can be changed, but if it comes from Muhammad, the supreme example of conduct for Muslims (cf. Qur’an 33:21), it can’t.

Finally there is Mohammed Shafiq of the Ramadhan Foundation, who claims that “we believe in religious freedom. People are free to leave Islam.” Then he is exposed as having branded as a “defamer of the prophet” the professional moderate Maajid Nawaz for tweeting a Muhammad cartoon — a term that carries the death penalty in Pakistan. He backpedals here, while insisting that he was right to “defend” Muhammad.

The yawning absence here is that of a Muslim voice who will simply acknowledge that Islam has a death penalty for apostasy and say that it has to be reconsidered and reformed. There are no such voices. Instead, it’s the same as always: claims of victimization, deflection, blaming of the Infidels, claims of hatred for Muslims — the usual responses we have seen thousands of times from Muslims in response to critics of jihad terror.

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Filed Under: Apostasy, Featured, journalistic bias, United Kingdom Tagged With: Abdullah al-Andalusi, Amal Farah, Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain, Mohammed Shafiq, Usama Hasan


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Comments

  1. Rev Peter Simpson says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 7:01 am

    Mr Spencer, could you please explain the three sets of figures after Bukhari please. Thank you.

    • Robert Spencer says

      Mar 18, 2015 at 7:35 am

      Bukhari volume 9, book 84, hadith number 57.

      http://hadithcollection.com/sahihbukhari/117-Sahih%20Bukhari%20Book%2084.%20Dealing%20with%20Apostates/6557-sahih-bukhari-volume-009-book-084-hadith-number-057.html

  2. Maria says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 7:19 am

    Notice that main Muslim defender and other Muslims in the audience say leaving Islam is “traitorous”?

    Why is leaving a religion considered “traitorous”? So people who leave Hinduism and Christianity to become Muslims are also traitors?

    What a sick CULT…a cult of death Islam is.

    • mortimer says

      Mar 18, 2015 at 10:15 am

      The first caliph Abu Bakr said: “You [Khosru and his people] should convert to Islam, and then you will be safe, for if you don’t, you should know that I have come to you with an army of men that love death, as you love life.”

      “The illusion which had humiliated us is no more than the love of worldly life and the hatred of death.”
      As long as the Muslims do not replace their love of life with the love of death as required by the Koran, their future is hopeless. Only those who become proficient in the “art of death” can prevail.”
      So, prepare yourself to do a great deed. Be keen on dying and life will be granted to you, so work towards a noble death and you will win complete happiness.”
      -Hassan al-Banna, founder of Muslim Brotherhood

      Hezbollah’s Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah who noted after a prisoner exchange:

      ‘We have discovered how to hit the Jews where they are the most vulnerable. The Jews love life, so that is what we shall take away from them. We are going to win, because they love life and we love death.’

      • Joe Shmo says

        Mar 18, 2015 at 11:50 am

        “We are going to win, because they love life and we love death.”

        Yes, that’s right. That reminds me of a bit in a documentary I recently watched about the Israeli security service, the Shin Bet, called The Gatekeepers (worth watching if only perhaps to get a glimpse of our future in the West). In it, they interview all the former heads of the Shin Bet and they’re very candid. Anyway, one quote really stayed with me. One of the heads during peace talks with a Palestinian in the 90s, possibly after the 2000 intifada (can’t remember when exactly) related how he told him: “we’re winning!” He asked him “What do you mean? You have many more casualties than us, how can you say that?” and he said he lent in close and said: “because we’re making you suffer!”

        • Jules says

          Mar 20, 2015 at 10:08 pm

          they love death… then perhaps they should be given what love so much.

    • jayell says

      Mar 18, 2015 at 10:32 am

      Someone recently said that the only reason that Islam has survived this long is because of the punishments for apostasy. That’s probably why we hear about the cries of ‘traitor’ and all the other charming sanctions when someone decides they want to leave.

      • voegelinian says

        Mar 18, 2015 at 1:01 pm

        Not in the way you might think — not in a way, that is, that saves the (vast) majority of Muslims from our reasonably holistic suspicion. But rather, one reasonably supposes, in an informed way that recognizes the profoundly fanatical sociopathology and Stockholm Syndrome of Muslims in general, whereby most of the time 1) such charges of “treason” (whether munafiq or murtad) are spuriously generated through the obsessive paranoia and hatred that is endemic to the Mohammedan psyche & culture; and 2) the various punishments for such “treason” are ferreted out if not executed by neighbors, friends and family members.

        • jayell says

          Mar 18, 2015 at 1:41 pm

          This sounds like the kind of horrendous ‘big brother’ excesses of totalitarian states like the former East Germany. It seems to be the only way they managed to keep that particular show on the road for so long, but of course everything collapsed when the Berlin Wall came down. So where is Islam’s ‘Berlin Wall’?

        • ECAW says

          Mar 18, 2015 at 1:59 pm

          Scattered around the Gulf producing a zillion gallons of oil a day, and well within reach of nuclear sub somewhere south of the Straits of Hormuz.

          With a couple of small ones to spare for Mecca and Medina.

        • voegelinian says

          Mar 18, 2015 at 5:52 pm

          jayell,

          Hence the scholar of legal history G.H. Bousquet called Islam “doubly totalitarian” — not only totalitarian externally, through laws & politics imposed upon the people, but also totalitarian internally through a mass brainwashing and Stockholm Syndrome.

          Which brings me to your second point, about the Wall of that singly totalitarian regime, Communist Soviet Russia. Their Wall was designed to keep freedom-loving people from escaping to freedom. While we could reasonably suppose during the Cold War that millions of Russians and Eastern Europeans loved freedom and were more or less kept hostage by their Communist regimes, we cannot be so generalizingly generous with Muslims. All the evidence points to the dreadful conclusion that most (if not all) Muslims “love Big Brother (i.e., Muhammad)” — i.e., that they are not trapped by a totalitarian system, but that they are co-dependent enablers of its deadly evil. With the Soviet Communism, the free world welcomed the Fall of the Wall, for we had good reason to believe most of their people loved freedom (and we were proven right about that); with Islam, however, the free world is increasingly threatened by its enablers and agents who have been streaming into our societies, endangering us so much that the only way to manage this will be for us to actually build a Wall to contain them. Not a literal physical wall, of course; but a wall of international containment (after we have deported the millions who are currently inside the West as a growing Trojan Camel), which I termed an “Iron Veil”.

          As I wrote in an essay on my blog back in May of 2009:

          “…where the Iron Curtain was erected by the dangerous regime itself to keep people from escaping from its totalitarian evil to a free world outside, [the] Iron Veil will be set up to keep totalitarian people with violently supremacist and expansionist goals from trying to infiltrate into the free world outside of the lands in which those totalitarian people derive their historico-politico-cultural provenance.

          “Again, the likelihood that among the total population of Muslims there might well be many who are not totalitarian (i.e., who are not following Islam) becomes irrelevant for our purposes of self-defense, since there is no way to tell with sufficient reliability the difference between harmless Muslims and dangerous Muslims, and given the complex nature of the danger, the risks are too high to gamble on simply assuming that certain Muslims must be harmless because of superficial indicators or worse yet, because of the mere absence of any dangerous indicators which our intelligence picks up. The most dangerous terrorist operatives will be the ones who have perfected, or nearly perfected, the skill of seeming harmless and blending into our societies in order to infiltrate deeply so that they can more effectively lay the groundwork for horrific attacks on us. To establish a principle, then, whereby we only target the Muslims who are visibly dangerous would serve to solidify policies that will precisely ignore the most dangerous Muslims.”

          http://hesperado.blogspot.com/2009/05/iron-veil.html

          And more details on “the complex nature of the danger” [of Muslims, of course] I allude to above:

          http://hesperado.blogspot.com/2009/05/iron-veil.html

        • PJG says

          Mar 19, 2015 at 8:51 am

          Your words continue to ring true, Voegelinian/Hesperado, and point to the only possible solution, if the nice idea of converting them all to our way of thinking doesn’t work out (which it won’t, unless by miracle.)

      • Lee says

        Mar 18, 2015 at 8:23 pm

        @Jayell “Someone recently said that the only reason that Islam has survived this long is because of the punishments for apostasy” Yes, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi admits this on video – see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huMu8ihDlVA

        From 0.08 “If they left apostasy alone, there wouldn’t have been any Islam. Islam would have been finished right after the death of the Prophet…”

        And the cries of “traitor” for apostates is because Islam is at war with humanity until we submit to it, and similarly they see *us* as at war *with them*, because we won’t submit. And during war-time anyone who goes to fight with the other side is considered a traitor.

        Dr. Zakir Naik – a leading Muslim educator – explains Muhammad’s death-penalty for apostasy, using the analogy of war-time to justify killing apostates:
        “If an Army General discloses his army’s secrets to another country then there is then there is a death penalty, or life imprisonment, for such a person according to the laws of most countries.”

        See 0.52 at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMAZR8YIhxI [Note from 1.35 the person who has posted this video begins his own audio commentary disagreeing with Dr.Naik]

        • No Fear says

          Mar 19, 2015 at 10:14 pm

          “If an Army General discloses his army’s secrets to another country then there is then there is a death penalty, or life imprisonment, for such a person according to the laws of most countries.”

          ….. so he admits that Islam is political in nature and not “religious” as we know the term in the West today.

    • Lee says

      Mar 18, 2015 at 8:08 pm

      @Maria, Muhammad declared war on all of humanity until we submitted to him and his cult. Since Islam is at war with us, any Muslim who leaves Islam to join the side they’re fighting against is seen as a traitor.

      On permanent war, see for example Bukhari 2, 25 [my emphasis]: *Allah’s Apostle* said: “I have been ordered (by Allah) to FIGHT AGAINST the PEOPLE until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that MUHAMMAD is Allah’s Apostle”

      And in his Koran: 2.216 Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.

      Dr. Zakir Naik – a leading Muslim educator – explains Muhammad’s death-penalty for apostasy, using the analogy of war-time to justify killing apostates:
      “If an Army General discloses his army’s secrets to another country then there is then there is a death penalty, or life imprisonment, for such a person according to the laws of most countries.”

      See 0.52 at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMAZR8YIhxI [Note from 1.35 the person who has posted this video begins his own audio commentary disagreeing with Dr.Naik]

      • ECAW says

        Mar 19, 2015 at 3:51 am

        Bukhari 2:24 not 2:25

        http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=2&translator=1&start=10&number=16

        Narrated Ibn ‘Umar: Allah’s Apostle said: “I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah’s Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an[d] property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah.”

        I think the last bit of the hadith (then they save their lives an[d] property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah.” ) is revealing too because it shows how Mo used Allah to justify his rapacity in this world. All Allah gets out of the partnership is the chance to torture miscreants forever. Mo definitely had the better part of the deal.

        • Lee says

          Mar 19, 2015 at 8:27 pm

          Hi ECAW, thanks for that. There is a discrepancy here, because the Uni of SoCal website has it as Bukhari 2.25 – see http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/002-sbt.php

          I think the University website must have it wrong – hope not too many others, because I’ve been using their website’s texts for many years.

        • ECAW says

          Mar 20, 2015 at 4:27 am

          Lee, I see that Bukhari book 2 starts at hadith 7 on the site I used:

          http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=2&translator=1&start=0&number=0

          and on the site Robert Spencer used the other day:

          http://hadithcollection.com/sahihbukhari/35-sahih-bukhari-book-02-belief/52-sahih-bukhari-volume-001-book-002-hadith-number-007.html

          but the SoCal site starts with hadith 8:

          http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/002-sbt.php

          I’ll go with the majority for now but will keep an eye out for other discrepancies and will let you know if I come across them, and would be grateful if you could do the same (I wonder what happened to the first 6 or 7 hadiths).

          Cheers.

    • FactsRule says

      Mar 19, 2015 at 7:54 pm

      Was going to comment on this, too. The translation of his taquiya or kitman, whatever Islamic lying he was doing, is yes, I support death for apostasy because it’s treason.

      • FatherJon says

        Mar 19, 2015 at 8:00 pm

        They are all well skilled in the techniques of al taqiyya/kitman.

        Avoid answering the direct question… answer a question with a question…deflect to an area of greater comfort…turn the question around to an attack on the interviewer.

        I’ve seen them all and trust NONE of them, not even that kindly old Mr Hussein who sells kebabs on the corner!

    • M S case says

      Mar 20, 2015 at 8:36 pm

      Maria The book of “hate” vs the book of “peace”!!! Therein lies the difference .Can’t say about the Hindus though….

  3. LivinginChrist says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 7:20 am

    Typical Muslim bigots not answering the questions regarding murder for Actualized Autonomy and leaving the oppression of tyrannical Islam. “Blah Blah Blah”; usurping the platform without giving any concrete answers. Classic evasion tactics like “so you say”. Muslims demand that they not be interrupted and then always interrupt others! Trained to never actually answer the question! “Taqiyah (he practice of denying one’s religion, permissible when one is faced with persecution, especially by Sunnites: regarded as a means of protecting the religion).” Dictionary.com Many people leave Islam and stay quiet for fear of their lives because there is a fatwa against them, but many reformed muslims who become Christian do not hide their Christian faith and are being murdered for it in African and MidEastern countries under Islamic oppression. Female Genital Mutilation, death from FGM, “Honor” killings, acid burnings, Death by stoning.. What kind of god is served by this?

    • samdav7 says

      Mar 18, 2015 at 9:22 am

      LivinginChrist you’re absolutely right, and about the question ( what kind of god is served by this ? ) is an interesting one, because all muslims around the world think that they worship the same god as other religions of the book, they also think that their religion ( islam ) is the only right way to worship the same god who’s shared by all religions of the book, therefor islam is right and everybody else is wrong and deserve to be killed, but they’re ( muslims ) missing one little piece of info which is very important, and that is : their god his evil satan himself, it’s not the same god that everybody else worships, the amount of historical and theological evidence that is available out there that proves the god of islam is satan himself is enourmous, I mean sometimes I find it funny when having even a very simple discussion with any muslim, they always use evil ways and tricks and lies and munipulating and satanic verses, they can never ever have a decent and honest and true answer ! .. they follow satan’s instructions literally !

    • somehistory says

      Mar 18, 2015 at 10:45 am

      When Adam was created, he was made in the *image of the True God*(Genesis 1:26)…meaning, of course, that he would love all things good and righteous and hate what is bad, evil, wicked because that is what The True God does. We are told “To exercise justice, love kindness and mercy and be modest, humble in walking with your God (Micah 6:8)”. This is what worshippers of the True God try to do.

      On the other hand, the devil is evil to his core and encourages his *children (John 8:44) to ‘walk like he walks’ and he “walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour (1 Peter 5:8).” He is the one having the means to cause death (Hebrews 2:14).

      It is being made clear for all who wish to see that islam is worship of satan the devil and his “children” act as he does. And since “the truth is not in him” (John 8:44), his followers lie as the devil lies.

    • Anna says

      Mar 18, 2015 at 6:11 pm

      For those who are not familiar with Pat’s video’s :

      http://www.patcondell.net/its-good-to-be-anti-islam/

    • Ahab says

      Mar 19, 2015 at 9:58 am

      With a God like Allah, you don’t really need the devil.

  4. Bassam says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 7:25 am

    I am sickened every time I hear those liars and hypocrites who knowingly lie to defend Islam and to defend its so called prophet. One has to know Arabic to know the truth and it is enough to listen (on you tube for example) to hundreds of so called Islamic Scholars (they call themselves sscientists) claiming clear evil Islamic laws as sacred and executable by any Muslim to defend Allah and his prophet.

  5. pdxnag says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 8:01 am

    By asking “Will you disown this disgusting bigot?” (the imam who says apostates must be killed) is the host calling all pious Muslims disgusting bigots, along with Islam itself?

    The mouthy fat convert is clear that apostasy is sedition and treason. As such he must necessarily consider himself and all pious Muslims citizens exclusively of the Islamic Ummah.

  6. wallace says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 8:08 am

    Love watching them squirm, you can see them struggle to contain their outrage. I would like to see a presenter keep at them when they have them on the hook. Simple yes / no answers. Do you believe the U.K should live under sharia law? do you believe in amputations for theft? stoning for adultery? death for homosexuals? etc,etc. But given their frequent use of taqiyya you would still struggle to show the general public what these snakes realy believe. I like old Anjem Choudary at least with him you get what it says on the tin.

  7. American says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 8:42 am

    Is it true that apostasy and the punishment of death for apostasy are not in the Qur’an, only in a hadith?

    Just viewing the video, whenever something positive was said about Islam there was considerable applause – when views opposite to Islam were expressed, no applause. I get the sense that the fight against Islam is losing in the UK – Islam has considerable support, somehow. Really difficult to understand.

    • cs says

      Mar 18, 2015 at 8:56 am

      That is also my question, I looked into it, and found only in the Hadith, if someone could enlighten us I would appreciate.

      • awake says

        Mar 18, 2015 at 10:39 am

        Yes, the penalty of death for apostasy is not explicit in the Qur’an, but all jurist schools are unanimous in death as an appropriate penalty for apostasy under sharia law.

        http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/12/mauritania-sentences-man-to-death-for-apostasy

        • mariam rove says

          Mar 18, 2015 at 11:04 am

          In Iran if they catch you as an apostate they will give a chance and it is Tobeh . It means to repent. So if you tell them you made a mistake and will go back to Islam they cut you loose. You have to sign all kind of papers!! If not you are f….M

      • voegelinian says

        Mar 18, 2015 at 1:10 pm

        Unluckily for us Kuffar, Islam is not merely about the Koran, but about its exegesis through the Sunna — which includes hadiths and tafsirs. The tafsirs of the Koran (e.g., Ibn Kathir’s tafsir) make clear that the pre-eminent capital crime and treason is Shirk, which when it is allowed to flourish anywhere on earth among humans and their communities, constitutes the Fitna and Fasad against which the Koran copiously, in various chapters (including most infamously, the Chapter (or Sura) of the Sword) enjoins the Muslim to fight and kill.

        Only deceitful Islamopologists and their haplessly clueless dupes in the West posit an imaginary Islam where the Koran is easily detachable, whenever it is convenient, from the Sunna (which, again, necessarily includes the hadiths and tafsirs). The real Islam is Koran-and-Sunna, and has always been so.

        • Volumetric says

          Mar 18, 2015 at 5:38 pm

          Islamopologist -a neologism which nicely balances “Islamophobe”.
          So we must have:
          Islamopoli -a type of cowering politician.
          Islamopolly -a type of parrot (choudaryian abysmus) which appears regularly on television and cannot be reasoned with(what do expect? it’s a parrot).
          Islamopolo -played with pickled kaffir heads.
          Islamopoll -consistently shows 90% are “moderate ” and believe in Sharia Law, death for apostates etc. and that Government Welfare is a jaziya tax.
          Islamopologit -may be a typographical error but is often shouted at the tv screens in private houses or muttered in public.
          Islamopall -the grey cloud of obtuse Islamothought which settles over any attempt at rational discussion of Islam in public forums. The present sense of hopelessness when trying to envisage the future.

      • IQ al Rassooli says

        Mar 18, 2015 at 1:56 pm

        In reply to cs request, please read the following that has been published by Liberty GB~

        This morning on the BBC television programme The Big Questions, one of the questions addressed was, “Do British Muslims have a problem with apostates?” (Apostates are those who renounce the faith.)

        One Liberty GB supporter who saw the programme contacted us to express his surprise at the conflicting views expressed. He noted that a proper understanding of the Islamic scriptures requires fluency in Classical Arabic, and asked whether some of the supposed ‘scholars’ on the programme might be deficient in this respect.

        We passed the question over to IQ Al Rassooli, Liberty GB’s expert advisor on Islam. IQ is a native speaker of Arabic who has dedicated much of his life to the study and critical analysis of Muhammad, the Quran, Hadiths, Shariah, Arabic and Islamic history. He responded as follows.
        ——
        I watched the program on the link you sent me.

        The question was a very important one especially in our democracy.

        Amal (the apostate) knows Islam and especially about the abrogating verses of Medina that nullify the earlier conciliatory ones in Mecca.

        Her opponents were lying and using taqiyya (religiously sanctioned deception by Muslims against non-Muslims).

        Muhammad’s Quran and Sunna (teachings and practices of Muhammad) leave not an iota of doubt that those who leave Islam should be slaughtered. Humanity is assured by the followers of Muhammad that the pagan Arabs accepted Muhammad’s Islam because of its sublime, moral, spiritual and judicial messages.

        How true are these claims?

        In Arabic, the word for apostasy is ridda which means the renunciation or abandonment of a religious or political belief or principle.

        Apostasy in Muhammadanism (irtidad or ridda) is commonly defined as the rejection of Muhammad’s version of Islam in word or deed by a person who has been a Muhammadan Muslim.

        When Muhammad died, Abu Bakr was chosen by a very small clique of Muhammad’s companions to take over the leadership of the Muhammadan Muslim community called Al Khalifa. However, many Bedouin tribes that had converted to Muhammad’s version of Islam through terror, bribery or greed refused to recognize Abu Bakr’s leadership.

        They regarded their allegiance to the Muhammadan Muslim community as having been a personal allegiance to Muhammad himself – hence, when Muhammad died, so did their allegiance. This was the reality.

        Abu Bakr refused to accept this and launched the Wars of the Ridda, or Wars of Apostasy, in order to combat and defeat the many apostates who existed throughout the Arabian Peninsula. Eventually, through slaughter and mass murder, Abu Bakr was able to reimpose the authority of Muhammadan Islam once again upon the unwilling Arabs of the Peninsula under the leadership of Mecca.

        All major schools of Islamic jurisprudence agree that a sane male apostate must be killed. A female apostate may be put to death according to some schools, or imprisoned, according to others.

        Sources
        It is clear from the verses of the Quran that “the apostate is threatened with punishment in the next world only”; however “in traditions, there is little echo of these punishments in the next world … and instead, we have in many traditions a new element, the death penalty” in this world.

        Al Baqara 2: 217: “And if any of you turn back from their faith [yartad] and die in unbelief [kafiroo] their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be Companions of the Fire and will abide therein … .”

        4:137: “Those who believe, then reject faith [kafaroo], then believe (again) and (again) reject faith [kafaroo], and go on increasing in unbelief, – Allah will not forgive them nor guide them on the way.”

        Al Imran 3:90: “But those who reject Faith [kafaroo] after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith, – never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have gone astray. As to those who reject Faith [kafaroo], and die rejecting [kuffaroo], – never would be accepted from any such as much gold as the earth contains, though they should offer it for ransom.”

        The jurist Al-Shafi’i interpreted these verses as providing the main evidence for apostasy being a capital crime in Islam.

        Al Baqara 2:256: “Let there be no compulsion in religion: Surely the Right Path is clearly distinct from the crooked path.”

        This particular verse is used by the modern followers of Muhammad to deceive those ignorant of the facts about Muhammadan Islam.

        The unwary are of course unaware that this particular verse, among another 124 conciliatory verses, were abrogated/ overturned by the subsequent more devastating fighting and aggressive verses of the Medina Period. In this manner, people would be lulled into believing that Muhammadan Islam is a truly peaceful belief system.

        Al Nisaa 4: 89: “[The Hypocrites] but wish that ye should reject faith [kafaroo] as they do and thus be on the same footing: but take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah. But if they turn renegades seize them and slay them [wa-qtuloohum] wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.

        Al Tauba 9:5: “But when the forbidden months are past then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war … .”

        For your information, this is called the Fighting Verse that abrogated at least 124 earlier conciliatory verses from Mecca.

        Al Nahhl 16:106-109: “Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief [kafara], – except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith – but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty. This because they love the life of this world better than the Hereafter … Without doubt, in the Hereafter they will perish.”

        In all the relevant Quranic verses quoted above, there is no mention of an earthly retribution against an apostate but only in the afterlife. There is no mention of a death penalty either.

        But the Sharia follows the Sunna of Muhammad and not the Quran.

        Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

        “Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.”

        Article 306 of the Mauritanian Constitution

        “If a Muslim is found guilty of the crime of apostasy, either through words or through actions, he will be asked to repent during a three day period. If he has not repented within this time limit, he will be sentenced to death as an apostate and his property will be seized by the Revenue office.

        “Every Muslim who refuses to pray will be asked to comply with the obligation to pray within the prescribed time limit. If he persists in his refusal, he will be punished by death.”

        Muhammadan Islam is the only belief system in the world that mandates the murder of anyone who joins it but later changes his mind and decides to leave it. If it were such a great and ‘peaceful religion’, why act with such depraved indifference and brutality towards the conscience of the individual?

        Sunan of Abu-Dawood Hadith 4487 Narrated by Uthman ibn Affan

        Abu Umamah ibn Sahl said: We were with Uthman when he was besieged in the house. … He came out to us, looking pale.

        He said: They are threatening to kill me now.

        We said: Allah will be sufficient for you against them, Commander of the Faithful!

        He asked: Why kill me? I heard the Apostle of Allah say it is not lawful to kill a man who is a Muslim except for one of the three reasons: Kufr (disbelief) after accepting Islam, fornication after marriage, or wrongfully killing someone, for which he may be killed. I swear by Allah, I have not committed fornication before or after the coming of Islam, nor did I ever want another religion for me instead of my religion since Allah gave guidance to me, nor have I killed anyone. So for what reason do you want to kill me?

        Uthman bin Affan, the third Khalifa, was subsequently murdered by other so-called Muslims.

        Bukhari’s Hadith Collection

        Bukhari, volume 9, #17: Narrated Abdullah, “Allah’s Messenger said, ‘The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed except in three cases: in Qisas (equality in punishment) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (Apostate) and leaves the Muslims.'”

        Bukhari, volume 9, #57: Narrated Ikrima, “Some atheists were brought to Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event reached Ibn Abbas who said, ‘If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s messenger forbade it, saying, “Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).” I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Messenger, “Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.”‘”

        Bukhari, volume 9, #58: Narrated Abu Burda, “Abu Musa said … Behold there was a fettered man beside Abu Musa. Muadh asked, ‘Who is this (man)?’ Abu Musa said, ‘He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.’ Then Abu Musa requested Muadh to sit down but Muadh said, ‘I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and his messenger,’ and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, ‘Then we discussed the night prayers … .'”

        The facts as recorded by the Muhammadans themselves prove that most of the Bedouin Arabs who had rallied out of fear to the banner of Islam under Muhammad, changed their minds after his death.

        It took almost two years of bloody fighting under the first Khalifa, Abu Bakr and under the generalship of Khalid Ibn al Walid, the mass murderer called ‘The Sword of Allah’, to subdue, subjugate and force those secessionists and apostates to return them – once more – to the fold of ‘peaceful Islam’; but of course, not through dialogue and conviction, but at the point and edge of swords.

        Contrary to all the platitudes, disinformation, misinformation, lies and falsifications of the historical records propagated by the followers of Muhammad, his version of Islam was born by the shedding of a sea of blood in the Arabian Peninsula, followed by the shedding of an ocean of blood of millions of subjugated, humiliated and plundered peoples on three continents.

        Muhammadan Muslim bloodshed by bombs, guns and swords continues to this day, not only against so called ‘unbelievers’ but also against other believers, as we see daily in the news media, all over the world.

        The best of all is the following interview with al Qaradawi, the foremost imam of Sunni Muslims about Apostasy:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huMu8ihDlVA

        As usual, I have tried to be as comprehensive as possible. It seems to me that many of the Muslims in the BBC’s audience were either utterly ignorant of Islam or lying.
        IQ
        ——
        IQ Al Rassooli is Liberty GB’s expert advisor on Islam.

        http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/index.php/news-libertygb/6742-just-how-expert-are-the-bbc-s-islam-experts

        IQ al Rassooli
        Kafir & Proud!

        • cs says

          Mar 18, 2015 at 2:18 pm

          @IQ al Rassooli , Thanks a lot for your info, I will save it in a do, and study it properly. I am always learning a lot from you guys, who expend years on these un-holy texts. Thanks a lot for your effort.

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 18, 2015 at 4:28 pm

        A lot of people have the idea that if something is not in the Qur’an that it is “not real Islam”, but this is not the case. No serious Muslim ignores the Hadith or the baleful model of the “Prophet”.

        And it is not just one quote attributed to Muhammed—there is also this definitive Hadith:

        Narrated ‘Abdullah: Allah’s Apostle said, “The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.”
        Sahih Bukhari 9:83:17

    • Joe Shmo says

      Mar 18, 2015 at 11:55 am

      The studio audience is generally rigged. It’s the BBC. They’ve been taken over by the hard left.

      • Joseph says

        Mar 18, 2015 at 6:40 pm

        YOU ARE CORRECT.
        listen to what the audience claps to.

  8. wallace says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 9:11 am

    The Qur’an:

    Qur’an (4:89) – “They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper.”

    Qur’an (9:11-12) – “But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief – Lo! they have no binding oaths – in order that they may desist.”

  9. Joginder says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 9:21 am

    Many Muslims desire to leave Islam, but are afraid of being killed by fellow Muslims. But there is a way by which they can renounce Islam without revealing it to anyone. That is by adapting the Sanatana way of life. Please share and promote this link http://sanatanaparishad.blogspot.in/ and help our Muslim brothers and sisters come out of the shackles of Islam.

  10. vlparker says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 9:23 am

    Funny that islam is the only religion in the world that we continue to have this debate about. That is evidence in and of itself that islam is a force for evil in the world.

  11. mortimer says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 9:59 am

    The Islamic playbook’s favorite play: ‘Deflect, accuse infidels, victimology, melodrama’. Hey, it works. We have to get smart and refuse to play if they don’t agree to discuss the doctrines and the issues.

    We can’t continue to let them use the ‘sandstorm’ technique in public discourse. Journalists and their editors are allowing this to happen. It’s very shallow and inaccurate journalism to say the least.

    • voegelinian says

      Mar 18, 2015 at 1:23 pm

      “The Islamic playbook’s favorite play: ‘Deflect, accuse infidels, victimology, melodrama’. Hey, it works”

      It only works because the dominant, mainstream sociopolitical fashion (I hesitate to dignify it by the term worldview) that prevails throughout the West (among both the majority of ordinary people as well as “Elites”) has become morbidly phobic about “racism” (as opposed to actual racism — which indeed ought to be staunchly opposed — thus Orwellianly confusing the false from the true); and this morbid Racialophobia, in turn, is one side of a coin whose other side is a morbidly industrious cultivation of shame and guilt about our own civilization (Crusades, Colonialism, Slavery, “Genocide” of various Indigenous Natives (Australian Aborigines, New Zealand Maoris, Native Americans, various black Africans), et fucking cetera).

      • voegelinian says

        Mar 18, 2015 at 1:24 pm

        slight correction:

        “thus Orwellianly confusing the false from the true”

        should be

        “thus Orwellianly confusing the false and the true”

  12. Been There Got the Tee Shirt says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 11:02 am

    If you watch the actual actions of the loyal Islamists it speaks volumes.

    Talk is cheap and it’s getting cheaper by the day.

  13. AJ Liberphile says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 11:53 am

    The arguments just go round and round. The sharia taquiya artists are quite right in one thing: they are on trial. The media might as well recognise and acknowledge this; they need to employ skilled debaters like barristers and prosecuting attorneys who are able to pin down Islam apologist scum with actual evidence i.e. scripture and hard facts/statistics.

    • ECAW says

      Mar 18, 2015 at 1:34 pm

      So true! It would never do to let people who actually know something about the scriptures do the interviewing. They would never get through the door at the BBC.

  14. profitsbeard says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 1:17 pm

    It’s not a “death penalty”, it’s just “involuntary euthanasia”.

    • Xero_G says

      Mar 18, 2015 at 2:59 pm

      “Expedited afterlife”

  15. Dan says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 2:10 pm

    These guys keep twisting the question back on us.

    He was asked if Muslims are ostracized, persecuted, and assaulted for leaving the faith, and all he kept saying was, “Look how others are ostracized, persecuted and assaulted for joining Islam.”

    That’s dodging the question, and as answer, no other religion KILLS people for leaving their faith to become Muslim.

    Muslims DO kill people leaving their faith, so he should have been pinned down to a Yes or No answer.

    But then, since the Quoran says you can lie to infidels, I wouldn’t trust that snake tongued issue dodger’s answer any way.

  16. Xero_G says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 2:57 pm

    Refuse to convert to Islam or pay jizya – death penalty
    Leave Islam – death penalty
    Homosexual? – death penalty
    Adultery? – death penalty
    Burn or disrespect a Koran – death penalty
    Draw a picture of Muhammad – death penalty
    Want to guarantee your entrance into Islamic eternal paradise in the afterlife? – Die while killing infidels

    For the “Religion of Peace”, there sure seems to be a lot of death involved…perhaps it’s more accurately described as the “Religion of Rest in Peace”

    • gravenimage says

      Mar 18, 2015 at 4:33 pm

      Yup.

  17. PRCS says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 3:01 pm

    “The yawning absence here is that of a Muslim voice who will simply acknowledge that Islam has a death penalty for apostasy”

    Well, here’s one, but he doesn’t say it should be reformed.

    Near the very end of the following video (6:50) he says that in a Muslim country, the shari’ah is clear: the punishment for apostasy is death…”

    But then asks–deceitfully–why that has any relevance in England.

    The answer is simple: the Qur’an and sunn’ah read the same everywhere. The only reason he can’t murder apostates in England is that BRITISH law trumps his phony religious laws.

  18. Marty says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 3:31 pm

    Non UK citizens might be surprised to learn that in the UK we are forced not merely to accept muslim “schools” subsidised by terrorist states, but the UK taxpayer has to pay for state muslim schools.
    We are headed for death or civil war. Personally, I prefer the latter.

  19. Old African lady with no teeth says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 3:33 pm

    The guy is either a liar or he is not doing his homework right or maybe he just want to sound he is a secular and not fanatic. Him and his friend are trying to show off, they want to say look of us we are not ISIS or Boko Haram those guys believe “Victorian translations” like apostasy is sin but we the modern people think this is outdated. They want to show the naïve British audience that their religion is peace, fair and tolerance. I don’t understand why the BBC invited those 2 in there? they pretend nice on TV but behind doors only God knows, when they go back their homes or the mosque they probably going to talk bad about converts. The young lady did her homework right, she knows what she is talking about, she is very intelligent, I think what she needs is to move on, she is in the right direction and I hope many women from that part of the world get fed up and start to fellow the same direction.

    • Roderick MacUalraig says

      Mar 19, 2015 at 3:09 am

      Great post, and I agree…. The young lady was a Lioness Of Freedom!

  20. gravenimage says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 4:55 pm

    Yep—this one’s got it all. When asked about Islam’s savagery, we get Taqiyya, false Tu Quoque, changing the subject, obfuscation, refusing to answer the question, gratuitous references to “colonialism”, gratuitous reference to supposedly inaccurate translations by Infidels (with no indication of what the “correct” translation might actually be), and hysterical claims of being persecuted and subject to a witch hunt—this last particularly grotesque in this case, since apostates from Islam *really are* hunted and murdered.

    And the idea that laws punishing apostasy with death in places like Pakistan have nothing to do with Britain are false. Here’s a recent canvassing of Muslims in the UK:

    A 2007 poll by the Policy Exchange think-tank revealed that 31% of British Muslims believed that leaving the Muslim religion should be punishable by death.

    Not exactly a “tiny minority of extremists”…

    • PRCS says

      Mar 18, 2015 at 6:19 pm

      “with no indication of what the “correct” translation might actually be”

      The guy with the black skull cap did say that apostasy means ‘treason and treason”.

      I do wish the host had challenged him to explain how it can be treason and sedition to leave a mere religion–but he didn’t.

      These events miss so many opportunities to put Muslims on the spot.

      • Joseph says

        Mar 18, 2015 at 6:52 pm

        The host is pro Islam.
        WHY? he compares 23 countries that have capitol punishment with the killing of a person for leaving Islam.
        Since when does the death penalty for heinous murder even come close to the death penalty for leaving Islam.
        Since when is female genital OK…..AT ANY TIME?
        Since when is the cutting off of one’s hands and feet for theft OK…AT ANY TIME?
        T H E S E P E O P L E M A K E M E S I C K

        Excuse me I’m going to look at my lunch that I ate a hour ago.

      • Dee says

        Mar 19, 2015 at 8:31 am

        Interestingly, the crime of “treason” is more commonly associated with politics or warfare. A hint that there could there be more to it than “religion”?

  21. jewdog says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 7:19 pm

    This seemed like a very pro-Muslim audience. I don’t recall anyone expressing any sympathy for the poor girl whose apostasy resulted in her social ostracism. I guess the main thing in Islam is Islam and not people.

    • FatherJon says

      Mar 19, 2015 at 7:24 am

      That feisty young woman reminded me very much of a young Ayaan Hirsi Ali, herself a victim of FGM in her native Somalia.

  22. Joseph says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 7:49 pm

    They keep on screaming that it is wrong for people to “demonize Islam” when the REAL truth is that
    ISLAM IS DEMONIZED!!!

  23. David says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 7:58 pm

    She’s gorgeous.

  24. rj71 says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 8:38 pm

    It was commented on the video that more people are joining islam than leaving.
    This is surely a big question to solve. Why after all the intolerance, hatred, killing, ‘inappropriate behaviour’…etc do people still want to join up?

    My experience of talking to many young adults in this country worries me. Many are sympathetic toward causes they have no understanding of.

    ‘Radical chic’ is back, this time with a 140 character maximum.

  25. Luke says

    Mar 18, 2015 at 9:53 pm

    Thank God the Saudis didn’t invent the nuclear bomb first.

    • FatherJon says

      Mar 19, 2015 at 6:59 am

      I’ve often said if oil turned into sand overnight we’d never hear of the Saudis again.

  26. Girl says

    Mar 19, 2015 at 4:42 am

    Certainly the interviewer could have asked better questions, but the fact that the Beeb even aired this discussion is a sign that the times are changing.

    • FatherJon says

      Mar 19, 2015 at 6:58 am

      Notice the defendants’ easy deflection of the questions. Examples of ‘al taqiyya’ at work – don’t answer a question if you can avoid it!

  27. FatherJon says

    Mar 19, 2015 at 5:41 am

    Why did we ever allow these people to come to our countries? They’re becoming a huge pain in the neck, far in excess of their numbers.

  28. Brother Mark:) says

    Mar 19, 2015 at 5:46 am

    If any don’t believe that the killing of the apostate as a revelation of Muhammad exists in the Qur’an all you need to do is check out Qur’an 4:89. Historical context? The fourth surra was one of the last “revelations” of Mohammad AFTER he had conquered Mecca, prior to his death. This was not “revealed” to Mohammad during an on going struggle with any other army during a time of war, where the act of apostasy could be theorized to put the Muslim army potentially at risk as an act of treason. Google Qur’an / chronological order to compare the traditional order of surras with the actual chronological order of their “revelation”.

    Have a great day!

    Brother Mark:)
    http://www.talktruthful.com

    • ECAW says

      Mar 19, 2015 at 6:05 am

      Agreed. The Pickthall translation o 4:89 says ” if they turn back (to enmity)” which implies warfare but if you look at these 10 versions the majority implicitly or explicity refer to turning away from the faith:

      http://qb.gomen.org/QuranBrowser/cgi/bin/get.cgi

      and if you look at the literal, word for word version here it seems to implicitly mean turning away from the faith:

      http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/4/89/default.htm

      • ECAW says

        Mar 19, 2015 at 6:09 am

        I see the direct link to the verse for the quran browser doesn’t work. This is the site where you can look it up:

        http://qb.gomen.org/QuranBrowser/

  29. Moshe Akiva says

    Mar 22, 2015 at 10:40 pm

    Hahaha… In my old country the government came up with a slogan to fight alcoholism. They said: “Alcohol kills, hebetates (stupefies) and plunges (you) into poverty.”

    A few days ago I read an article about a debate in Hungarian which was on Muslim terrorism. The people who defended Islam appeared to be mentally retarded, hence I rewrote the above slogan to: Islam kills, hebetates (stupefies) and plunges (you) into poverty.

    This “debate” proved me right again.

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