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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Australia Muslim leader: Muslims join jihad because “blood is boiling” over domestic persecution & West’s atrocities

Apr 10, 2015 9:43 am By Robert Spencer

Keysar TradThis is arrant nonsense: Muslims aren’t persecuted in Australia or anywhere else in the West. In fact, they enjoy more rights in the West than they do in Muslim countries. What Keysar Trad means by persecution is counter-terror efforts, and that reveals the insidious edge to his claims here: he is essentially calling for an end to all counter-terror activities by Australian law enforcement, and suggesting that if the Australian government stopped trying to stop jihad terrorism, it would stop on its own. The real effect would be that jihad terror would advance unopposed and unhindered.

Also, in light of the fact that the Qur’an twice justifies slaughter as the response to persecution (“persecution is worse than slaughter,” 2:191 and 2:217), Trad’s words are frankly ominous.

“Persecution pushing young Australian Muslims to the margins of society, says leader,” by Rachel Olding, Sydney Morning Herald, April 10, 2015 (thanks to Tilda):

Young Australians are joining terror groups because their “blood is boiling” at domestic persecution and international atrocities committed by the West, a local Muslim leader has warned.

Keysar Trad, founder of the Islamic Friendship Association, told a university forum that his comments may be “dangerous” and “politically incorrect” but they were crucial to understanding why more than 200 Australians have taken up arms in Syria and Iraq.

In a scathing assessment of Australia’s efforts to create a harmonious society, he said constant persecution, hypocritical Australian laws, vitriolic media and repeated invasions in the Middle East were pushing young Muslims “to the margins of society” and driving them to radicalisation.

“Denying the root causes is like applying a Band-Aid to an open wound before cleaning and disinfecting it,” he told an anti-radicalisation forum at the University of Western Sydney on Wednesday night.

Mr Trad, a controversial figure who described himself as a “roving imam”, said he could understand why young Australians were driven to join Islamic State but he tried to convince them it was not the solution.

His comments were reflected in a recent study that found one in five Australian Muslims think terrorists have legitimate grievances.

The nation-wide survey of 800 Muslims, conducted last year by the University of Queensland, found that counter-terrorism policy in Australia was breeding anger, backlash, distrust and a siege mentality.

Mr Trad listed the Iraq invasions, the war in Afghanistan and the torture of Muslim prisoners at Guantanamo Bay as grievances for young Muslims.

He cited the case of Northern Territory unionist Matthew Gardiner, who recently returned to the Northern Territory after reportedly fighting with the Kurdish forces against IS , as an example of hypocrisy in Australia.

“If he just went through the belief that he wants to fight against this group that he believes to be a very evil group, if he did it for that reason, why do we wonder when a Muslim person is exposed to any of these atrocities that have been committed against his relatives?” he said.

“Why do we wonder why the blood inside that young Muslim doesn’t boil to the extent that he feels that he has to do something?”

Mr Trad said Australian Muslims were confronted with “systemic discrimination”, opportunistic political commentary, unemployment and “duplicitous standards” in law enforcement.

“It is hard to argue with a young person who starts to cite all these issues, you can see the fire in their bellies, you in fact feel the same fire yourself,” he said.

“All the above factors compound to different extents the sense of victimisation and alienation amongst youths in general and Muslim youths in particular.”

In contrast, IS propaganda tells young people: “Join us and you will belong, you will not be discriminated against, you can go wild, let loose your facial hair and you become the law.” he said.

Lydia Shelly, a lawyer and Muslim community member, said there was a poor understanding of radicalisation in Australia.

Her comments were echoed by Dr Jan Ali, a lecturer in Islam and Modernity at UWS, who told the forum that deradicalisation programs were pointless without a proper understanding of the phenomenon itself.

He said the federal government’s efforts to fund community-led programs wouldn’t solve the problem.

“There are some Muslims who are on the path of radicalisation who are from a middle class, well-to-do family,” he said. “They don’t need hand-outs.”

The federal government has allocated $14 million for community-led deradicalisation initiatives and $545 million for the inclusion programs by the Department of Social Services.

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Filed Under: Australia, claiming victim status, Featured, War is deceit Tagged With: Keysar Trad


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Comments

  1. Jay Airahs says

    Apr 10, 2015 at 9:55 am

    This is the same kind of grievance mongering that will likely succeed in sparing the Boston bomber a swift execution like Timothy McVeigh. In fact, I assume that he won’t even need to appeal a death penalty verdict because the intimidated talking heads and legal system have already set in motion the process of spinning an excuse against giving him the death penalty in the first place with the myth that he should not get the death penalty because that would make him a martyr and give all the Islamic terrorists what they want.

    • mortimer says

      Apr 10, 2015 at 10:25 am

      The ‘grievance’ Muslims have (but will not speak) is that the dirty kafirs reject their pedophile pirate and say he was not a prophet.

      • Salome says

        Apr 10, 2015 at 5:39 pm

        Yes, ‘persecution’ means the existence of unsubdued infidels in society.

      • EYESOPEN says

        Apr 10, 2015 at 8:06 pm

        Bingo Mortimer!

    • Betty says

      Apr 11, 2015 at 9:47 am

      all they need is a job. put them in the cotton fields,corn field, potato fields,tobacco fields, make them so tired they cant think straight. deny them prayer rugs, qur’ans. schooling. give them food water. and a place to sleep. no more no less.

  2. mortimer says

    Apr 10, 2015 at 10:20 am

    An evangelist for surrenderism: “Surrender to the supremacists and you will safe.”

    Except that once you surrender to the Islamists, you have no human rights or civil liberties and you will never be free of them and they will be able to do to you whatever they want.

    Why do the Libtards not see it? Muslims are theocratic totalitarians.

    • JMB says

      Apr 10, 2015 at 6:37 pm

      That’s Islam, always has been and always will be anywhere on this planet.

  3. mortimer says

    Apr 10, 2015 at 10:30 am

    The complaint of discrimination against Muslims in employment may have some merit, because no employer would seek Muslims as employees, considering the poor reputation of Muslims as difficult and litigious employees. Who needs the hassle?

    That’s REALITY.

    • particolor says

      Apr 11, 2015 at 7:03 am

      No Boss here wants Employees that Demand 5 Lunch Breaks a Day !!

    • Michelle Wayne says

      Apr 13, 2015 at 12:03 am

      Muslims looking for work? where? Not in Australia,they get more money in welfare for having multiple wives and dozens of kids, the kinds of Imams like Tirad should be charged with fraud because by implementing Sharia Law in Australia illegally by marrying a man to many wifes that is illegal in Australian law they are committing a crime, while this “wifes” collect single mother pensions me as a Australian my age pension and all the extras I get as a pensioner will be reduced to supplement them and the poor muslim youths that need deradicalization, really? as usual playing victims to get more money, at list I payed taxes for 40 years have they?

      • particolor says

        Apr 13, 2015 at 5:23 am

        Yes but they don’t care ! What they (May) lose in child support the Muslima’s get back in Child Welfare and give it back to the Rangy One ! Win Win !! I hope those little Apprentice Jihadists are Immunized now ? or the New law will get them !! No Vaccination – No Child Support Welfare !! 🙂 We wouldn’t like the Imam catching Whooping Cough or Measles now ! Would We ? 🙁

  4. Westman says

    Apr 10, 2015 at 10:32 am

    Imagine how peaceful it would be if there were no Imams to stir up hostility. It seems each one is permitted to be his own little Führer.

    This Imam illustrates exactly why the blood boils: Islam has indoctrinated its youth to be seditious, to be patriots for no country but Ummah. Citizenship only means what country will be the host for parasitism.

    Does the Islamic blood boil when muslims attack Austrailian infidels?

    Islam is instant, ready to be served, sedition.

    • Westman says

      Apr 10, 2015 at 12:11 pm

      Of the jihadists tracked by the Austrailian government, more that 95% were on the dole. The logic for not working:

      “If I work I pay taxes that will be used to fight against my ME brothers”.

      The typical mind of a parasite who is only concerned about the Ummah and fulfilling Muhammad’s insane dream of world domination under a caliphate. Imagine, free brainwashing and pre-jihad conditioning at the local mosque, with all living and educational expenses paid by working citizens and Saudi Arabia.

      Again, citizenship only means which infidel country is the host for parasitism.

  5. JeffS says

    Apr 10, 2015 at 12:32 pm

    If you don’t let us wage violent jihad, we’ll wage violent jihad.

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 10, 2015 at 11:00 pm

      That’s what this fake grievance mongering is in a nutshell. Very succinct.

  6. Michael Copeland says

    Apr 10, 2015 at 1:11 pm

    “…to the margins of society”? Islam is self-marginalising.

    “You should hate them, disown them and their religion and be proud of your religion.” Alminbar.com

    “Allah (SWT) tells you to … hate those whom He tells you to hate …
    Therefore you must love the Muslims … and hate the kuffaar … .”
    https://muslimsagainstvoting.wordpress.com/

  7. Jay Airahs says

    Apr 10, 2015 at 1:27 pm

    Their blood is boiling.
    Their brains are percolating.

    Islam is peace?
    Don’t hold your breath waiting.

  8. Ricky Black says

    Apr 10, 2015 at 1:33 pm

    I wish the Governments would let all of them go over there, but don’t let them back in.

  9. somehistory says

    Apr 10, 2015 at 4:21 pm

    Of course, their “blood is boiling”…when they see non-muslims being persecuted in Africa and the ME and they want to get to have a part…they are ready and willing to engage…but circumstances don’t permit them to slaughter as boko and is are doing…
    He and his cohorts wish to be involved in some of the “atrocities” but they aren’t yet able. So he grins like a snake and tries to think up some mischief in which he can engage “domestically.” And he has it: bold faced lies just like the father of lies, satan, the original serpent.

  10. RonaldB says

    Apr 10, 2015 at 6:31 pm

    There’s a slight problem here. Keysar Trad, the roaming imam, claims that young Muslims are driven to rage by bad media, suspicious looks by police officers, the admittedly hare-brained 2003 invasion of Iraq, and numerous other not-so-clear offenses by the host societies against their Muslim organisms.

    The implication is, if they could somehow eliminate the suspicious looks by police officers, it would go a long way to alleviating the understandable floating, inchoate rage felt by young Muslims.

    But, the roving iman has told us that young Muslims have a low boiling point. They pick up on slights, insults, and aggressions that other people don’t even notice, and sneak off to Syria to chop off heads and burn captured soldiers.

    The big problem is that with the low boiling point of young Muslims, described so well by the roving imam, anything could set them off. The Muslima night have a “bad hair” day, or “bad niqab” day, and fly off in a rage, not to mention in a plane headed for Syria. Or, the young Muslim man might find a flea in his beard ( Anything’s possible) and likewise fly into a boiling rage leaving him unable to do anything but shout “Allahu Akbar”, wave an AK-47 in the face of cameramen, and head for the nearest slave market to buy a non-Muslim slave or two.

    Or, if the enraged young Muslima or Muslim find themselves blocked from traveling to their natural ISIS home by the alert Australian authorities, intent on keeping its young, enraged Muslims safe and sound in Australia, they might vent their overboiling rage on their host society which has treated them so dismally.

    So, pity the poor police, who must keep their gazes averted from the nice young Muslims amongst them, but who have to handle any consequences resulting from the low boiling point of these young Muslims and virtually any everyday occurrence that might set them off.

  11. sound awake says

    Apr 10, 2015 at 7:04 pm

    cue the western mainstream media to parrot this nonsense like its the actual truth

  12. Georg says

    Apr 10, 2015 at 7:08 pm

    Perhaps the roving imam should be reintroduced to his natural habitat. It’s no wonder some Australians feel like this*: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWTHLyLJayI

    *salty language herein(I’d say seasoned to perfection)

  13. Papa Whiskey says

    Apr 10, 2015 at 7:43 pm

    The “snivel-rights” movement goes Down Under: “We’re poor little victims and our blood is boiling, so we gotta go kill.”

  14. Jules says

    Apr 10, 2015 at 8:53 pm

    Persecution?!! And what about their persecution of Christians and Jews and other groups, not to mention other Muslims?

  15. El says

    Apr 11, 2015 at 12:46 am

    Mr Trad, another dodgy Arab living off the state. I know this as a fact! Him and his brood are rat cunning and are milking the state and its resources for all they are worth. The above rat, is the driving force of the self imposed appartheid that these trouble makers are pushing for. Australia has hundreds of cultures yet for some strange reason its always the same people and religion that cause all the trouble. Despite being only 2 percent of the population,this lot is causing far more angst than its numbers would permit. All thanks to the naivety of the authorities and the stupidity of the bureaucracy.

    • particolor says

      Apr 11, 2015 at 11:47 pm

      Mr Trad Dad said Shut Up and pay Your Jizra !! 🙂

  16. george says

    Apr 11, 2015 at 1:52 am

    This drongo is full of s-it, muslims join jihad because they are brain dead it’s that simple. <:o)

  17. Volumetric says

    Apr 11, 2015 at 5:20 am

    Australian muslims have recently spent a million or so dollars of (their?) money setting up a tv channel called “One Path Network ” to combat “persecution” of Australian muslims. I guess most peoples idea of a network is a lot of nodes connected by lots of communication lines forming a net. So what’s a one-path network? -a line which goes from node A to node B and back again. They didn’t spend much time thinking about the oxymoronic name but still it’s expressive of the idea that they’ll just be talking amongst themselves.
    This clown keyser trad has recently been hit with a $250,000 legal bill. Probably “their” money will pay for that too. Trad (and his nine kids -no kidding and no pun) live off government welfare but he doesn’t seem too concerned about big legal bills.

    • particolor says

      Apr 11, 2015 at 11:56 pm

      Mr Trad Dad (9 Times) said “Shut Up and Pay My Welfare” and Scout for 3 more Wives for Me ! We need more Jihadis for the future Invasion !! 🙂

  18. Volumetric says

    Apr 11, 2015 at 5:41 am

    I have noticed that Trad has gone from just-rolled-out-of-bed sartorial shambles to beard-like-a-crows-bird-nest jihadist style. He is beginning to look more and more like a doppelganger of Anjem Choudary with the same white lipped mouth that you see on koalas during the bushfire season. Poor little koalas -they know nothing of this big bad human world

    • particolor says

      Apr 12, 2015 at 12:02 am

      You don’t understand ! You have to look like that in the Breeding Season to attract Muslima !
      The more You look like Father Time the better Your chances !!

  19. Aussie Infidel says

    Apr 11, 2015 at 8:38 am

    In many ways Keysar Trad reminds me of Man Haron Monis, the jihadist responsible for the seige at the Lindt Cafe in Sydney last year. They both suffer from delusions of grandeur, and both have desperately tried to promote themselves as leaders of Islam communities. Trad has been courting various political parties for nomination as a candidate for the next election – so far without success (afaik).

    To Trad, Australian laws would be hypocritical, because they are not in accord with the Sharia. As Muslims continually remind us, the ‘man-made’ laws of secular states, are inferior to the divine revelations of Allah – despite the fact that no one has seen hide nor hair of this great invisible lawmaker. As for the media in this country, it’s only just begun to criticize Islam in recent times – perhaps that’s just too much for the poor victimized Muslims to bear.

    The only reason why 200 or so Muslims from Australia, have taken up arms in Syria and Iraq, is because of the militancy of Islamic ideology, and its inate hatred of kafirs – which includes other Muslim sects they disagree with. And the only reason why young Muslims are being pushed “to the margins of society”, is because firstly, they shun ordinary Australians because their Quran commands them to (Quran 4:46, 5:51, 5:60, 5:82, 9:5, 9:29 etc); and in turn, ordinary Australians shun them, because of their alien culture, beliefs and behaviour. Islam and Western culture are like oil and water – they just don’t mix.

    I agree with Trad that “Denying the root causes is like applying a Band-Aid to an open wound before cleaning and disinfecting it.” But I disagree with his diagnosis of what has caused the wound. The cause lies with the destructive nature of Islamic ideology itself, and that ideology has no place in a civilized society. I also agree that the federal government’s efforts to fund community-led deradicalization programs most likely won’t solve the problem. Unless such programs were devised and led by Westerners who thoroughly understand Islamic ideology, and were skilled psychotherapists, they would be a complete waste of time and money – a case of ‘the blind leading the blind’.

    • particolor says

      Apr 11, 2015 at 7:52 pm

      But they thoroughly Relish the Welfare Payments by the Dhimmi Guv !! And love the freedom of Regular Burn Outs in Stolen cars on our streets !… Victims !! 🙁 OHH ! The Peace of the Angels !! 🙂

    • Banana Bender says

      Apr 11, 2015 at 8:58 pm

      Spot on mate!

    • nfw says

      Apr 11, 2015 at 9:20 pm

      I can’t understand why that extract from the Sydney Morining Herald (known in Australia as simply a left wing propaganda service) was published above. Surely Piers Akerman’s article in today’s Sunday Telegraph would be a better reflection of Australian opinion:

      http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/piersakerman/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/muslim_grievance_is_a_self_serving_excuse/

      Muslim grievance is a self-serving excuse

      Piers Akerman Saturday, April 11, 2015 (11:11pm)

      SELF-promoting self-professed “roving imam” Keysar Trad has mounted a rationalisation for the radicalisation of young Australian Muslims that should forever destroy what remains of his credibility.

      Trad, who last year joined with Labor and the Greens in opposing a laudable suite of anti-terrorism laws proposed by the federal government to deal with returning Islamist murderers, told a Western Sydney forum that young Muslims join terror groups because their “blood is boiling” at what he termed “domestic persecution” and international atrocities committed by the West.

      He said they were ­confronted with “systemic discrimination”, opportunistic political commentary, unemployment and “duplicitous standards” in law enforcement, and indicated he sympathised with their views.

      “It is hard to argue with a young person who starts to cite all these issues, you can see the fire in their bellies, you in fact feel the same fire yourself,” he said.
      “All the above factors compound to different extents the sense of victimisation and alienation among youths in general and Muslim youths in particular.”

      In contrast, he said, IS propaganda tells young people: “Join us and you will belong, you will not be discriminated against, you can go wild, let loose your facial hair and you become the law.”

      What a fatuous commentary from someone who a ­series of state and federal governments have given a cloak of credibility to over the past 20 years, even though his history as a translator for the pro-­jihadist and pro-Osama bin Laden Nida’ul Islam magazine is a matter of record.

      Those young Muslim males who claim to have experienced discrimination might consider whether their own behaviour and attitude to Western culture and Australia, their nation of choice, or at least, the nation their parents chose to migrate to or seek refuge in, may have something to do with the manner in which they are regarded.

      Trad finds he can “feel the same fire” but how often have we heard him or other self-nominated Islamic leaders and imams claiming their “blood is boiling” at reports of honour killings, forced marriages, or female genital mutilation — all part of the rich tapestry of traditions that exist in sections of the Islamic community.

      Successive Australian governments have pandered to the Muslim migrant community and, through fostering the disastrous policy of multiculturalism which has led to segregation and bitterly ­rejected assimilation, have created the ghettos in which the most poisonous imams have spread their virulent anti-Western poison.

      The leftist “progressives”, even as they glorify feminism and equality, have ignored the routine debasement of women, the persecution of homosexuals, the regular denigration of Christians, Jews and non-­Muslims in general.

      Should a cartoonist depict Mohammed, a slew of hand-wringing progressives come forward to proclaim their support for freedom of speech — up to the point it offends ­Muslims — even as members of the Islamic community demand a fatwa on the artist.

      When an artist displays a Christian crucifix in urine, or a portrait of the Madonna created out of animal dung, the progressives marvel at the artistic ingenuity displayed.

      Some Islamic figures in Australia are now demanding the federal government spend tens of millions more on deradicalisation programs for Trad’s angry young men yet nowhere in the world, it would seem, have social workers been able to dissuade the legions of the deluded to put aside the potent adolescent dream of ­instant-access virgins and ­Kalashnikovs in favour of a paying job or further learning.

      The myths about radicalisation need to be shattered.

      The evidence is abundant those most likely to be wooed by the calls of the internet-­active Islamists are those who already show psychopathic tendencies, or those who have succumbed to conversion to the ugliest face of Islam. Kids from broken homes, those in jail, girls and boys who feel they are misunderstood. Living in ghettos is not a great start in life either.

      Youngsters trapped in an Islamic island surrounded by Westerners enjoying a vastly different culture will naturally feel isolated. Their so-called leaders should be encouraging them to engage with non-Muslim Australians, not indoctrinating them with the patent falsehoods that pass for commentary in the feudal history of the Middle East.

      The inoculation process must start in the home, which means the Muslim leadership will have to address the polygamy which government agencies have turned a blind eye to, it also means that little boys will have to be taught they are equal to their sisters and they are no better and no worse than other Australians who aren’t Muslim.

      Multicultural separatism must stop, and it shouldn’t be up to other taxpayers to foot the bill. Putting aside the special case of the convicts who had little choice in their destination, their overwhelming majority of people who have made Australia their home in the past 227 years have done so because they wanted to become Australians.

      Over a century ago, some may have thought they were joining a little England but, since WWI, Australians have had their own identity.

      The flood of migrants who came here post-WWII had no doubts about their destination or their hope that they and their children would one day be Australians.

      Assimilation, not isolation, is the solution — and the people of this nation have shown they are the most welcoming in the world to those who wish to engage and participate in this society.

      • particolor says

        Apr 12, 2015 at 12:14 am

        That was Wonderful ! Threecheers ! 🙂 🙂 🙂

  20. Lioness says

    Apr 11, 2015 at 10:25 am

    If Muslims believe that they are persecuted in their host countries, instead of harping about it they should simply pack up and leave, no one is stopping them. They can go back to their original countries. Problem solved.

    • Betty says

      Apr 11, 2015 at 10:58 am

      they love being persecuted. if they weren’t being persecuted they wouldn’t have a reason to whine and cry all the blame time. get sick of their crap.

      • particolor says

        Apr 11, 2015 at 8:07 pm

        NO ! You whinge and Cry persecution when You are not being Persecuted ! It gains You more Ground and Privileges ! Advances the Invasion a step further ! 🙂

  21. rcourtemanche says

    Apr 11, 2015 at 10:49 am

    Then, pack up and leave. What didn’t they choose Qatar, a rich country? Because they wanted to come to the West to spread their evil.

    • particolor says

      Apr 11, 2015 at 7:59 pm

      ? Must be a S**T Welfare System in Qarar ? 🙁

    • tilda says

      Apr 12, 2015 at 3:32 am

      Perhaps Qatar dislikes refugees.

      Statistic snapshot — Residing in Qatar:

      Refugees: 127
      Asylum seekers: 54
      Stateless persons: 1,200
      Total population of concern: 1,381

      Source: http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e4868d6.html

  22. Jae M says

    Apr 11, 2015 at 3:48 pm

    Obvious and easily refutable lies seem to be the staple of this community, who apparently believe if they say a absolute falsehood, people will believe it just on the basis that it was spoken.
    Unfortunately for them, people have reasoning ability. They can see who is killing who. (in this current society, not centuries ago as they so like to point out).
    It is outrageous that they can dare claim persecution when they are the ones persecuting all other faiths and peoples excluding themselves.

  23. Charles Johnson says

    Apr 11, 2015 at 6:46 pm

    As an Australian I don’t see Keyser Trad as a leader. He is more the chief apologist for this religion of hate and death.

  24. Charles Johnson says

    Apr 11, 2015 at 6:57 pm

    As an Australian I see Keyser Trad as more of an apologist for this religion of hate and intolerance than a leader.

    • particolor says

      Apr 11, 2015 at 7:36 pm

      A Sneaky Apologist for sure ! Slowly but Surely they are Worming their way in to a Position of Power as Prescribed in their Comic Book of Hell !! 🙁

  25. BC says

    Apr 12, 2015 at 5:13 am

    This just as spurious as the constant claim by Goebbels that the war was started by the British and the Jews. In any case if their blood is boiling against the persecution in their country of residence, why do they not do something there, instead of going all the way to join IS and kill other Muslims and infidels?
    Of course it is preferable that they do so, but show his claims are nonsense.

  26. Heather says

    Apr 12, 2015 at 3:06 pm

    Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah!! They’re NOT persecuted here or anywhere else. THEY are the ones DOING the persecuting. They’re C. R. A. Z. Y !!!! Following Satan’s orders to a tee. I’m fed up with the whole darn lot of them and wish they’d disappear, and I don not care where.

    • particolor says

      Apr 12, 2015 at 6:36 pm

      Same here ! They make My “Blood Simmer ”
      Victims of their own CULT !!

  27. Charles Johnson says

    Apr 12, 2015 at 7:02 pm

    Trad’s history as a translator for the pro-­jihadist and pro-Osama bin Laden Nida’ul Islam magazine is a matter of record.

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