Since he began Doonesbury in the late 1960s, Garry Trudeau has always been a hard Leftist, and he here shows his dark little authoritarian heart. “Hate speech” is a subjective judgment. If it becomes criminalized, then those who are in power can use it to silence the powerless. Leftists like Trudeau generally assume that their positions are so self-evident that those whom they excoriate as “right-wing” are fully aware that they’re trafficking in “hate speech” — I remember Ground Zero Mosque developer Sharif El-Gamal’s obvious surprise when I answered “Of course” to his question, “Do you really believe that what you are doing is right?” In reality, I think much of what not I, but Trudeau (and El-Gamal) says is hateful, but I would never want them forcibly silenced. The same cannot be said the other way around.
It is also particularly shameful for someone who has preened for over forty years over being “controversial” (although actually he has just reflected standard Leftist establishment opinions) would not stand up for the freedom of speech against violent thuggery, and realize that “controversial” voices need protection if any free society is going to remain free. “Charlie Hebdo ‘Wandered Into The Realm Of Hate Speech,’ Says Doonesbury Cartoonist Garry Trudeau,” by Gabriel Arana, Huffington Post, April 10, 2015:
Famed Doonesbury cartoonist Garry Trudeau slammed his counterparts at Charlie Hebdo — the French satirical newspaper that was attacked by terrorists in January — at the George Polk journalism awards on Friday, saying their work “wandered into the realm of hate speech.” The attack on the publication, which has mocked Islam and other faiths in its pages, ignited a fierce international debate over free speech and racism.
“Free speech … becomes its own kind of fanaticism,” Trudeau said as he accepted a lifetime achievement award from the organization, adding that cartoonists’ role is to “punch up” rather than down.
AnneCrockett says
“Punch up, rather than down” speaks volumes about the leftist mindset that thinks our poor little Muslim brothers are not our equals as human beings.
Papa Whiskey says
In fact, it reflects the leftist orthodoxy that Muslims are an oppressed, victimized “Other” rather than the hyper-privileged bullies they actually are.
I’m going to draw a caricature of Garry Trudeau today. This news has gotten me into a punching-up mood.
Georg says
Precisely, and explains what would othersise be their baffling stance, or should I say lying down, regarding Islam.
mortimer says
…KNEELING DOWN before the jihadists.
Jay Airahs says
If only we all would just learn to pet the snake of Islam on its tail,
his plan for us could not possibly fail.
But when, the snake of Islam coils and turns,
you will find Garry to be the first one hiding beneath the veil.
ruth says
Democrats and satan both consider THE TRUTH as hate speech..
EYESOPEN says
Remember, the truth is only “hate speech” to those who hate the truth.
mortimer says
Yes, but when Garry Trudeau mocked Nixon, Gerry Ford, Ronald Reagan and George Bush (sr. & jr.), the CIA and all those who supported them, it was NOT ‘hate speech’.
Champ says
Remember, the truth is only “hate speech” to those who hate the truth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indeed, EYESOPEN!!
🙂
Papa Whiskey says
The American journalistic establishment,, having already disgraced itself with a near-unanimous capitulation to Muslim zealots during the Muhammad cartoon affair in 2006, has doubled down with this award. The George Polk Awards were meant to be for journalists who take risks, not ultra-privileged leftist goose-steppers like Garry Trudeau. And Trudeau’s demagogic slagging of cartoonists who were basely slaughtered for taking such risks is utterly unconscionable.
Jay Airahs says
Imagine if we were to a get a group of creeps like him together a year ago at a Leftist fundraiser cocktail party and video tape their uproarious laughter as the were shown a presentation of slides by Charlie Hebdo mocking Jesus or the Pope or evangelical Christians.
Next, the presenter announces and now our next set of slides is about the pedophile of Islam, Muhammad. After a moment of silence, watch the room clear out like cockroaches in the dark suddenly startled when a bright light comes on.
Ephesian says
Jay…exactly! I have a friend who is a “Christian” and he thinks that Charlie Hebdo brought it on themselves,that they stuck their collective hands into a hornet’s nest,so why were they suprised by the muslims reaction!I can’t seem to get through to him the dangers of lack of free speech,and also the fact that Jesus is ridiculed on an almost daily basis,and although he sees the ridicule of Jesus as wrong,he says you cannot stop people doing that…yet doesn’t see the irony of his statement..!
rev g says
So true. Every other religion can be the object of humor. At “The Book of Mormon” the LDS church took out ads in the program! Now imagine the reaction if a similar work were done about the quran, Movies like Dogma or Life of Brian did well at the box office, no killing over the humor.
Doonesbury is always an example I reference when liberals tell me I should respect the office of potus. It serves well to underscore the hypocrisy of the left.
CogitoErgoSum says
Into what realm does the Quran wander with its exhortations to convert, kill or otherwise subdue anyone who is outside Islam? Why doesn’t Trudeau and others like him recognize the Quran for the hate speech that it is? Trudeau is no champion of anything. No matter which way he’s punching, he’s down for the count and out on a TKO.
Jack Holan says
The old tradition blame the dead victim and make the accused the new victim reverse the roles and soon, some weak minded people actually believe it. Then the Muslim disinformation Propaganda machine can go into high gear spitting out garbage.
The reports out of Germany about the Co-Pilot converting to Islam during the time gap between Flight School and returning to Fight School at the same Mosque as Atta the 9/11 ring leader. This story disappeared and never really reported in the US. Does anyone know if it was disproved or just simply disappeared?
Lesley says
@Jack Holan: I found quite a few articles declaring that the copilot responsible for the Germanwings crash was a Muslim convert. Here’s one article:
http://www.tpnn.com/2015/03/27/breaking-germanwings-co-pilot-was-muslim-convert/
Also, it is highly likely that the mysterious Malaysia air crashes/ disappearances were also the result of intentional jihadi activities:
http://shoebat.com/2015/01/01/u-s-not-start-profiling-muslim-kamikaze-jihad-pilots-will-murder-innocent-people/
Islam really is at war with the non-Muslim world, everywhere. It’s bizarre that the facts in these incidents are suppressed or framed into such a politically correct context that we are required (by force in some instances) to deny this obvious truth. Whether or not we feel like being at war with Islam is irrelevant– Islam is at war with us.
Jay Airahs says
GAG!
— “wandered into the realm of hate speech”
if he believes that the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists used hate speech. then he should just come out and say it and stand his ground.
Instead he jabs the knife in and twists it and then quickly takes cover under a pretense of moral objectivity.
Salome says
I found their anti-Christianity cartoons gratuitously offensive, but they didn’t deserve to die for them. As for their Islam-themed cartoons, were the cartoon depictions of the enemy during wartime ‘hate speech’?
R Cole says
There was a Saudi blogger who was arrested and extradited back to Arabia for his comments opposed to Islam / and Muhammad – and there was a UK Leftwing commentator who almost apologized for the bloggers comments [about his own religion!!] – although of course the commentor did not agree with the imprisonment or the death penalty for such comments – but thought there was no excuse for such expression.
The question is where do you draw the line?
That is why here in the west – we ‘agree’ to have freedom of speech and expression.
But the Left’s unconditional support for Islam – show us how easily it is for us to become ‘NOT FREE’.
::
To justify giving up freedoms for Islam – might seem a quick solution – but a disaster awaits.
And in the free world thankfully we can still chose!!
We don’t have a religious anvil hanging over our heads.
::
If Muslims are able to get what they want – as in political Islam/ sharia theocracy – we would not get the Left’s portrayal of Islam – we will get the Islamic world version of Islam.
::
Satirical cartoons are meant to be thought provoking – if the Doonesbury cartoonist doesn’t want to engage with – then he has the freedom not to.
:;
The Absolute Left
The Saudis behead apostates and critics of Islam – because they believe they are absolutely right – and so the Left should understand what it is they are allying with.
Islam is a Yellow Brick Road!
Karen says
I get so gaggy on the leftist clichés (“punch up, not down” – that was a new one for me.) I wonder how he makes the exquisite calculation about who is punch-worthy? Cooperative of him to stay on script.
Henry says
No Mr. Trudeau, those at Charlie Hebdo were wearing their Islam specs, and were just not as testicularly challenged as you, that’s all.
profitsbeard says
This chickenshi’ite surrendered after 9/11.
One more Kultur Quisling.
Georg says
Is he on record as to the Koran’s wanderings?
st. patrick says
Lars Vilks should be syndicated and replace Doonesberry. Pierre’s son is a doofusbury..mouthy useless pos..utter dreck..wotpr..
Mirren10 says
I take it this little toerag didn’t submit a piece to the Draw a cartoon of mohammed Competition, then ?
If you click on the Twitter link Robert provided, it’s good to see all the tweets are condemning him, and the pusillanimous editor of the Washington Post, Polgreen, who describes his cowardly stance as ‘nuanced’. Bleh.
Georg says
Yes, there is no nuance like calling something “hate speech”– right up there with “Islamophobia”. It’s akin to tossing the chessboard (another nuanced activity).
Westman says
I’ve read Trudeau’s Doonebury for years and find his statement pure hypocrisy.
Trudeau’s attacks on political figures, countries, and religion are legendary. He also drew distortions such as waffles for heads on public figures and put swear words in the mouths of a president.
Controversies he created here:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doonesbury
It appears that he’s trying to make certain his own neck is not on the Islamic chopping block by distancing himself from the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists. He may have gotten pressure from near and dear to avoid danger.
mortimer says
If your accusing Trudeau of cowardice in the face of the enemy…valid point!
Writers and cartoonists are on the front line and the most likely to be killed for criticizing the Islamic barbarism.
TRUDEAU IS INDEED A HORRIBLE COWARD.
Georg says
Strongly agreed. A bit off-topic, but does anyone else feel embarrassed for him, or just in general, considering the sheer tonnage of “smug” captured in that photo of him? How many takes did it take to get that? Yikes…
Ephesian says
Yes! I spotted the “smugness” immediately…worse still,I know people who have the same look,a sort of mixture between being p-ss-d and a case of bad wind….not that I’ve experienced either,of course…!
underbed cat says
Sorry tab error….Anyway just reading the title….I thought Trudeau was gone. Reread article and understand he made the comment “wandered into hate speech”. I interpreted that comment to mean Charlie Hebdo exposed the truth and was meet by “hate” speech by Islam. Hate speech meaning death. Yes. Trudeau is very left or liberal….and said it in my opinion, that way to avoid getting on the list. That is his right. Yes. The truth about Islam…jihad, sakat, slander and deception etc. will get out eventually. Problem is the misdirection is being done by media and our highest office and they are pretty successful at excusing what we read and see. I hope conservatives will remain calm on this issue or our words will be used against us. There are still people out there is will speak out and draw the picture that is worth a hundred words. But I am no artist I live under the bed.
Georg says
Nope, he’s mad at Charlie.
underbed cat says
Of course, one last thing. Maybe Garry T should look at Jihad Watch. It will be very difficult to view these things and read the reports about jihad deaths in Oklahoma, Kansas, on military bases, in factories, etc. but we have to expose it because large efforts and organizations are already established in the U.S, not to expose these problems. They are here already and planning.
bobm says
to begin even to consider a sip from your cool-aid cup Mr. Trudeau… the epic picture you draw is of a cautionary tale of we mere mortals within striking distance of the cobras nose … taking a good shot at the master of uncommon expectorant ….. always coiled and ready to kill…. this slider on hot sands ..who would drink from its’ desert well and not be poisoned?
mortimer says
Next! Garry Trudeau defends right of Korean dictator to censor American films and cartoonists!
mortimer says
Garry Trudeau believes in using free speech (where it exists) to promote Marxism in order to remove free speech that resists Marxism.
This is what he was doing all along….paving the way to enslavement and the removal of human rights.
Garry Trudeau finally takes his mask off and reveals himself as a totalitarian.
Georg says
Is this hate speech, Gare?
Bart Goldman says
Trudeau’s comments arise out of a lack of education. The busy individual fails to study Islam and its history. He may imagine, in ignorance, that the greatest evil is to offend a “marginalized” group. But with some investigation, we see that there are much greater evils. No doubt the Charlie Hebdo cartoons were offensive to Muslims; and so its creators paid with their lives. Does Gerry know that he, as an unbeliever, is equally offensive to Muslims?
Wellington says
A true leftist like Trudeau is guaranteed to hold modern conservatives (who are the true liberals of our time, harkening back as they do to the kind of real liberalism of Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Albert Gallatin, et al. ) in far greater contempt than he does Muslims, if indeed he holds Muslims in contempt at all. After all, there’s a common bond between Muslims and leftists, it being totalitarian thought and impulses.
One other matter: Anyone (like Trudeau) who uses the term “hate speech” seriously, just as with anyone who uses the term “Islamophobia” seriously, is, ipso facto, revealing 1) their woeful understanding of freedom; 2) their overall foolishness; and 3) their at least implicit embracing of an Orwellian world.
Kepha says
Actually, wellington, we should find Trudeau, stick our thumbs in our armpits, and shout, “Buck-buck-buck-AAAAA!” at him. He’s chicken.
Kepha says
Gary Trudeau is one reason why I will very seldom plop down money to buy the Washington [Com]Post. Back in ’75, he treated Communist “re-education” in Viet Nam as a cute little joke. His latest comment–even though I never had much regard for the Charlie Hebdo crowd–truly exposes his dark, tiny totalitarian heart.
Every word Gary Trudeau utters (or draws) is hate speech–including “and” and “the”.
Nimrod says
Hebdo was making these nasty cartoons insulting all manner of religious figures, yet for some reason they don’t get criticized for “hate speech” until they insult Mohammed the psychopathic pedophile con artist and the one most deserving of, if not the only one deserving of, insult.
I’m starting to think that some people’s brains are just hard wired in such a way that they’re only capable of “thinking” in terms of Marxist dialectics and not any sort of conventional logic or reason. As a result they’re just mentally incapable of anything but constant hypocrisy. I doubt they’re neurologically capable of anything else.
mortimer says
Exactly!
“they don’t get criticized for “hate speech” until they insult Mohammed the psychopathic pedophile con artist and the one most deserving of it”
gravenimage says
Doonesbury cartoonist Garry Trudeau: Murdered Charlie Hebdo cartoonists “wandered into the realm of hate speech”
…………………………………
Just *sickening*. How many people has Garry Trudeau offended over the past forty years? But these have all been civilized people, apt to do no more than cancel their subscriptions to the local newspaper.
And note: he is holding that any criticism of the sanguinary “Prophet” is “hate speech”—that means that we cannot so much as say that Islam is violent, or Muslims have grounds on which to murder us.
Notice that he does not even throw in the obligatory caveat that the Jihadists should not, of course, have murdered the cartoonists. Apparently he is fine with this freedom of speech crushing savagery.
More:
“Free speech … becomes its own kind of fanaticism,” Trudeau said as he accepted a lifetime achievement award from the organization, adding that cartoonists’ role is to “punch up” rather than down.
…………………………………
Grotesque hypocrisy. Garry Trudeau has spent his entire career benefitting from freedom of speech, and from brave people defending his freedom of speech even when they may have strongly disagreed with him.
And note that he is drawing moral equivalence between the fanaticism of murderers and the “fanaticism” of those who would dare criticize those same murderers. *Ugh*.
And those not familiar with Leftist tropes may well wonder what he means by saying “that cartoonists’ role is to ‘punch up’ rather than down”—what he is implying is that what he does with his strip is just criticize the powerful, although anyone familiar with his work knows that he is fine with sneering at working-class and poor people who are patriotic and who hold traditional values.
He is also implying that daring to criticize Islam is perforce “punching down”—that all Muslims are poor, persecuted oppressed people, and who as such cannot be criticized in any way.
Clearly, this is grotesque—one should be free to criticize any beliefs or behavior, no matter what their socio-economic status. To imply that one cannot is just Marxist reductiveness.
Moreover, though, this is utter rot. Many Jihadists are quite well off, and in the West have vast opportunities. Further, many of them are state actors—should Saudi Arabia and Iran be automatically excused from their savagery, even though they clearly hold authoritarian power?
And note the immediate moral morass: the idea that one cannot criticize enslaving Infidel girls, stoning women to death, committing genocide against religious minorities—or murdering peaceful cartoonists—because the barbaric perpetrators have perversely been granted “underdog” status.
Matthieu Baudin says
While Marxist Leninist regimes fell apart in Europe and in China morphed into Vanguard Capitalism, the New Left, nurtured in Civil Societies, became ever more rigid, fanatical and successful in becoming the mouthpiece of leading social institutions including much of the media. There is no shortage of “Garry Trudeau’s” about the place, often conceited and always safe to indoctrinate others with their prejudiced, sometimes jaundiced, views. Unfortunately his generation of political misfits went to bed with Revolutionary Islam many years ago, at least as far back as the Iranian Revolution at the end of the 1970’s and now, facing the hideous mushrooming of Revolutionary ‘Year Zero’ Jihadist Movements, they must decide whether to stay smooching with ‘Islamic Pol Pot’ or to end the honeymoon.
gravenimage says
And Matthieu, it is instructive what the Islamic “revolutionaries” did with their Marxist allies in Iran as soon as they consolidated power there.
In the early 1980s the Mullahs turned on their leftist allies, including the Iranian Communist Tudeh Party. Thousands of members were rounded up, imprisoned, tortured, and executed. Many of these poor fools went to their deaths screaming that they still supported the “revolution”.
You can find a good—though very harrowing—of this savage liquidation in Houshang Asadi’s “Letters to My Torturer”. Even though he is clearly an intelligent man, he seems like so many others to have missed the essential savagery of Islam. He only survived because he had shared a cell with the Ayatollah Khameini briefly during the Shah’s era, and his wife was able to appeal to him. Asadi eventually fled to the West with his wife, still apparently unable to understand that Islam is no more compatible with hard leftism than it is with freedom.
How long would some fool like Garry Trudeau last under Shari’ah law? Not very long, but he is too witless to realize that, and so is fine with throwing his braver colleagues under the bus.
Julia says
I don’t know any liberals who don’t support free speech! Then again, I don’t hang out with fascists.
DogOnPorch says
Life long Doonesbury fan, Aren’t any of you? Leftist? Me thinks you misunderstood all those cartoons over the years.
As Henry Kissinger said: “The only worse thing than being in it (Doonesbury) was NOT being in it.” Reagan was even a big fan following Roland Hedley’s (the reporter) expose on Regan’s Brain as well as the iconic Ron Headrest.
Besides, Trudeau was correct in that you don’t take the low road to tackle a high end problem. You all should know that.
,,,and, btw, Duke For President in 2016.
DogOnPorch says
“Reagan’s Brain”, pardon.
https://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/n_iv/600/1139129.jpg
Mirren10 says
”Besides, Trudeau was correct in that you don’t take the low road to tackle a high end problem. You all should know that”
Translation: ” I am too stupid to understand the paramount importance of defending free speech, if a free society is to exist at all. You all should know that”.
Trudeau is a vapid little coward, who rides on the coattails of those more courageous than himself. What he said was not ”you don’t take the low road to tackle a high end problem”, but free speech is as fanatical as those who murder for an idea, and that Charlie Hebdo was ‘guilty’ of ”hate speech”.
You clearly have no idea of what free speech means. Trot off back to Huffpo/Salon, or whatever lefty rag you crawled out from.
Shane says
I agree, Trudeau would never say that attacking Jesus and Christians was hate speech. Left wingers like him are cowards who only attack those who can’t and won’t fight back. Hate speech laws are anti-free speech and should be opposes. In some European countries and in Canada, hate speech laws function as Islamic blasphemy laws. Again, here is another case of liberals and Muslims working together, this time to enforce Islamic blasphemy laws.
DogOnPorch says
So in order to fight Islam, you’re going to be more like Islam? Brilliant.
My point is that Trudeau has characters in his strip who are anything but “leftists”…since we must label people. Uncle Duke…a ‘leftists’?? Seriously?
Try reading his strip for a change rather than letting others decide for you.
Mirren10 says
What nonsense. I never said any such thing.
How is pointing out that Trudeau is a leftard, totalitarian coward, being ” more like islam” ?
Trudeau should have championed the right to free speech, and pointed out that the Charli Hebdo cartoonists were **murdered** for exercising theirs. Instead, like a typical leftist weasel, he chose to equivocate with pernicious nonsense about “hate speech”
I *have* read some of his comic strips.. I found them singularly lacking in humour, or point.
I do not, however, think he should be prevented from publishing them, or threatened with violence, or murdered, because *I* find them pointless, silly, and lacking in humour.
You have totally missed the point, which is not whether his characters are leftist or not, but that he failed to champion free speech, instead choosing to follow the usual leftist meme that free speech is ‘hate speech’. Depending of course, on whether or not it is speech this pusillanimous little creep would approve of.
People like you and he are despicable, and don’t deserve to enjoy the freedoms given and protected by the West. You will, however, enjoy them when it suits you, and betray them when it doesn’t.
Begone, wormtongue.
voegelinian says
My point is that Trudeau has characters in his strip who are anything but “leftists”…
Sure — the ones he lampoons as buffoons.
rev g says
If you do in fact read his strip and still made your comment regarding the content then it is obvious that comprehension is not one of your stronger characteristics.
DogOnPorch says
Interesting how quick some folks are at deciding a person whom they’ve never met is their enemy.
You’re just like the Jihadis you claim to oppose.
Mirren10 says
Anyone who refuses to stand for the freedom of speech *is* my enemy, and is the enemy of all who cherish liberty.
You and your ilk will never understand such principles, because you stand for nothing, and will therefore fall for everything.
I’m just like the jihadis I claim to oppose ?
🙂 🙂
Of course; when I’m not commenting here, I’m busy murdering pusillanimous idiots like Garry Trudeau …
Youre a fool, but you will never be able to see this.
Bugger off, you vapid little twat.
DogOnPorch says
Internet tough guy, eh? Well, my freedom of speech includes the right to point out the hypocrisy of supporting *everything* Charlie Hebdo does while denying the same for both myself and Garry Trudeau. Who, I might add, enjoys the FULL support of the US Military. Seems they do not think he is an enemy of the state like you do.
http://gocomics.typepad.com/the_sandbox/
Face it, before this tragic attack by the so-called religion of peace, you had zero clue what Charlie Hedbo was and perhaps could see it more objectively if you had. The subject matter looks an awful lot like the anti-Semitic cartoons coming out of the Muslim world. Justified…apparently…by Islam’s violent behavior.
But, I’m saying it is NEVER justified. Thus we should take the high road. Punch-up as Mr Trudeau said.
rev g says
Equating your supplied link with the FULL support of the US military only underscores your simple- mindedness.
Also, your idea of punching-up by eradicating all offensive speech doubles down on my aforementioned conclusion. Any speech is likely to offend someone. You either accept that you may get offended, or you eradicate essential liberty.
I for one prefer liberty.
DogOnPorch says
Doonesbury does enjoy the full support of the US military. This is called a *fact* as opposed to an opinion. The Mil-Blog is the part you see as a regular civilian.
“Beginning with the Gulf War in 1991, Trudeau has written about military issues extensively. In recognition for his work on wounded warriors, he has been presented with the Commander’s Award for Public Service by the Department of the Army, the Commander’s Award from Disabled American Veterans, the President’s Award for Excellence in the Arts from Vietnam Veterans of America, the Distinguished Public Service Award from the American Academy of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, the Mental Health Research Advocacy Award from the Yale School of Medicine, and a special citation from the Vet Centers. He also received several unit commendations from the field during the Gulf War, and traveled with the USO to visit troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. From 2005 to 2014, his website hosted The Sandbox, a milblog posting over 800 essays by deployed soldiers, returned vets, caregivers, and spouses.”
—Wiki
This is the fellow you and others are painting as an enemy of the state and a coward. I guess he’s just not freedom loving enough for the likes of yourself and others who can’t resist name calling like a pack of children.
I say…good thing.
rev g says
Fact? The term must be alien to you. It does seem tbat some in the military or its service organizations give Trudeau a measure of appreciation, however. That would be a factual statement, unlike ykur drivel.
As for enemies of the state, we do have a democratic socialist in tbe White House, don’t we?
Rebecca says
Do you think maybe Trudeau is a 9-11 truther and/or a Bush basher and that his supporter here, is trying to draw attention away from that, by mentioning the military angle? Something is fishy.
rev g says
I doubt it. He just takes it personally when holes are exposed in his exaggerations
Rebecca says
You certainly become offended easily. This article isn’t even about you and you take it personally. Is that why you are against free speech?
Mirren10 says
DogOnPorch says;
”Internet tough guy, eh? Well, my freedom of speech includes the right to point out the hypocrisy of supporting *everything* Charlie Hebdo does while denying the same for both myself and Garry Trudeau.”
Like the majority of leftards, DogOnPorch is incapable of following, or crafting, an intelligible argument.
I never said I supported everything Charli Hebdo does. Certainly, I find some of their stuff offensive, but that doesn’t obviate the fact they have the right to publish it, because *I* have no right not to be offended. The whole essence of free speech is the right to say what some may find offensive. Otherwise, who is going to decide what is offensive, or not offensive ?
” … denying the same for both myself and Garry Trudeau.”
Here again, you betray your stupidity, and inability to comprehend what has been said. I never denied you have the right to say whatever rubbish you choose, or denied Garry Trudeau has the right to say whatever rubbish *he* chooses. You, after all, are here on this forum, and no-one has stopped you from saying whatever nonsense you want, and no-one stopped Garry Trudeau from saying offensive rubbish about Charli Hebdo.
Trudeau, however, would love to deny the right of free speech to those whose opinions he disagrees with; hence his disgraceful statements that Charli Hebdo was promoting ‘hate speech’, with the implication that being *murdered* was what they deserved.
” … Garry Trudeau. Who, I might add, enjoys the FULL support of the US Military. Seems they do not think he is an enemy of the state like you do.”
One logic fallacy, and one outright lie.
First, your argument from popularity is, as I said, a logic fallacy. Whether or not some person, or idea, is supported by a lot of people, speaks nothing as to whether or not that person, or idea, is correct. If a majority of people state the moon is made of green cheese, does that mean the statement is true ?
Secondly, I never said Trudeau was an ‘enemy of the state’. I said he was an enemy of **freedom**, because he refuses to stand for freedom. Whether X amount of military personnel think he’s great, doesn’t change that fact.
Done here.
DogOnPorch says
Trudeau’s work at Walter Reed and Fisher House confirm the military’s support. I’m sorry if you find that distasteful. Perhaps a letter writing campaign on your part will get the military to drop Trudeau’s contributions. Or not. You can always try.
As for myself being a ‘leftard’…that’s a first. Should I now vote accordingly? Either way, Robert is a good fellow and would do well to distance himself from the likes of commentators such as yourself. He will always remain on the fringes as long as folks like myself aren’t ‘conservative enough’ to appease the rabid fringe.
Consider myself driven away. Enjoy your day.
rev g says
Trudeau’s work at Walter Reed confirms the military’s support of him? Apparently you subscribe to the completion backwards principle?
And no longer using the word “full” in capital letters?
Trudeau may well support the military, after all it is politically expedient and soldiers have lots of time to read, so it can be profitable.
The military may express appreciation, but that is not what you said at all.
Go on, keep changing your story.
Volumetric says
I can remember one Doonesbury I came across in the previous century:
Plain Jane: You know, since I divorced my husband and married you he’s been dating some really hot women. Wow, you should see his latest catch…
Guy in ten gallon hat, gripping steering wheel: Yeah, great…
Gea says
Gary Trudeau needs to be punished to read Koran, Hadith and Sire, before spreading this nonsense against Charley Hebdo cartoonists who were telling the truth about the criminal Mohamed.
Islam ITSELF is a HATE IDEOLOGY AGAINST HUMANITY and Mohamed was a pedophile, polygamist, rapist, looter, misogynist and mass murderer, who was actually portrayed much nicer in Charley Hebdo cartoons. In any sane society such a vile man as Mohamed was would be convicted for his crimes against humanity and not emulated by 1.6-1.8 BILLIONS of Muslims who consider this criminal “tho most perfect human being who ever lived” and their “beloved prophet”.
Barrack Hussein Obama may have encouraged the French Muslim terrorists when he gave a speech in UN defending Mohamed and ending with “The future does not belong to those who denigrate the prophet”. Shame on Obama, shame on Trudeau. Ship him off the Obama’s king in Saudi Arabia to understand Islam, which is a hate speech against humanity and needs to be banned from the civilized society as the ex-Muslims Turkish poet, Serkar Engin, stated..
All the apologists for Islam need to be sent to Mecca for a few months to understand how lucky they are not to live under Islam which is creeping up into West by stealth jihad, he;p[ed by fools like Trudeau.
quotha raven says
I for one always preferred Beetle Baily. Trudeau subscribes to “ethical narcissism” (thank you, Voegelinian for that concept).
quotha raven says
What I meant is that Trudeau is the EMBODIMENT of ethical narcissism, not that he subscribes to it.
gravenimage says
DogOnPorch wrote:
Life long Doonesbury fan, Aren’t any of you? Leftist? Me thinks you misunderstood all those cartoons over the years.
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I always read the strip, and have for many years—almost since the beginning. There are certainly things I admire about Trudeau’s work, even if I sometimes disagree with it. But if you are a life long Doonesbury and don’t recognize that his is a leftist—whether you consider this a pejorative or a compliment, then you are surely not paying attention.
More:
Besides, Trudeau was correct in that you don’t take the low road to tackle a high end problem. You all should know that.
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He takes the low road all them time, excoriating those he disagrees with as absolute idiots. The idea that his humor is gentle or respectful is absurd.
He has, of course, every right to do this.
What he is saying—and, horrifyingly, you appear to agree with him—is that one deserves to be murdered by Jihadists if one does not take what he alleges to be the “high road”.
Keep in mind, while Charlie Hebdo lampooned Jews and Christians and myriad political figures, none of them firebombed their offices nor went on a murderous shooting spree there—just Muslims.
And what did this “low road” consist of? Daring to suggest that Islam and the “Prophet” *are violent*.
Do you consider daring to say this off limits? And if so, how do you condone such an enforcement of Shari’ah?
Moreover, if you do approve of this, why are you here at Jihad Watch?
I notice that while you consider Charlie Hebdo’s humor to constitute the “low road”, you apparently do not consider their being murdered for it to be a “low road”. What does this say about your moral sense?
Hundreds of artists—including myself—have just taken part in the Muhammad Cartoon Art contest. If you deem that some of the humor also takes the “low road”, do you believe pious Muslims have the right to murder the cartoonists?
More:
So in order to fight Islam, you’re going to be more like Islam? Brilliant.
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Cartoonists whose work you consider crude of inappropriate are “like Islam”? Are you saying that what you consider incivility is morally equivalent to murder?
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My point is that Trudeau has characters in his strip who are anything but “leftists”…since we must label people. Uncle Duke…a ‘leftists’?? Seriously?
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The character of Duke is in Doonesbury, but he—and many others—are anything but portrayed in a favorable light. This would be like saying that the Lord of the Rings must perforce be pro-Sauron, since he is present in the book. Duke is no hero.
More:
Try reading his strip for a change rather than letting others decide for you.
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This is not really about the merits—or lack of same—of Trudeau’s strip, which is merely a matter of taste and politics.
This is about his refusing to champion freedom of speech, and to blame those exercising it for *their own murders*.
More:
Interesting how quick some folks are at deciding a person whom they’ve never met is their enemy.
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What utter rot. It is not necessary to meet someone in person in most cases to determine whether or not they have set themselves up as your enemy. You have never met Hitler in person, and given the facts of history, you will never have that opportunity. Does that mean that you will not designate him as an enemy, based on his words and deeds?
You are acting as an apologist for someone who vilifies those brave people who stand for freedom of speech, will not defend freedom of speech yourself, and refuse to condemn those who murder in the name of crushing freedom of speech. You certainly are not an ally to anyone who wants to defend our freedoms or stand up against savagery.
More:
You’re just like the Jihadis you claim to oppose.
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*Grotesque* false moral equivalence. You consider a sharp online exchange to be the same as threats and murder?
Yet more:
Internet tough guy, eh? Well, my freedom of speech includes the right to point out the hypocrisy of supporting *everything* Charlie Hebdo does while denying the same for both myself and Garry Trudeau. Who, I might add, enjoys the FULL support of the US Military. Seems they do not think he is an enemy of the state like you do.
http://gocomics.typepad.com/the_sandbox/
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What absolute crap. No one here has suggested that either Garry Trudeau or yourself should be censored, let alone murdered. Who has denied your freedom of speech?
A lot of idiots—and you seem to be one—appear to believe that full freedom of speech means never being challenged or criticized for your views. But this is false—were that so, then you critics would not have freedom of speech themselves.
And yes—I support everything Charlie Hebdo does—meaning I do not believe they should be censored or murdered for it. That hardly means that I am uncritical of everything they have ever done. And why should I be?
If someone were threatening Garry Trudeau or yourself, I would stand up for your right to speak, as well.
More:
Face it, before this tragic attack by the so-called religion of peace, you had zero clue what Charlie Hedbo was and perhaps could see it more objectively if you had. The subject matter looks an awful lot like the anti-Semitic cartoons coming out of the Muslim world. Justified…apparently…by Islam’s violent behavior.
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What crap. This has nothing to do with whether someone personally likes all of Charlie Hebdo’s content or not, but whether they have to right to speak freely.
Moreover, the idea that to criticize the violence of Islam is the same as antisemitism is grotesque.
More:
But, I’m saying it is NEVER justified. Thus we should take the high road. Punch-up as Mr Trudeau said.
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“NEVER justified”—criticizing Islam is never justified? This is simply sickening.
And how long do you think that you—or Garry Trudeau—will be able to maintain your own freedom of speech under Shari’ah law? Because that is exactly where we are heading if you crush our ability to openly speak of Islam and its savagery.
Beth says
“What crap. This has nothing to do with whether someone personally likes all of Charlie Hebdo’s content or not, but whether they have to right to speak freely.”
“Moreover, the idea that to criticize the violence of Islam is the same as antisemitism is grotesque.”
and….
“NEVER justified”—criticizing Islam is never justified? This is simply sickening.”
Many thumbs up!
gravenimage says
Thank you so much, Beth.
Volumetric says
That’s not quite right either. It’s
“You take the high road and I’ll take the low road
And I’ll be in Scotland afore ye.”
That’s the original refrain from the movie Brig O’Doonesbury with Gene Kelly and What’s Her Name.
quotha raven says
Volumetric – Thank you so much for your priceless effort at clarification; yrs made me laff out loud and made my day. Cheers! quotha r
duh_swami says
‘The true black magicians are your fellow man, if you don’t believe that, just try and break away from the path they have set for you.’
Crimes of the mind is a whip that the clever use to keep the sheep on the path…Hate crimes, hate speech, are designed to strike terror into the hearts of the public. A deterrent to opposition. Not only that, the word ‘hate’ is misused.
it means, ‘intense dislike’. We intensely dislike a lot of things. I hate it when I hit my thumb with a hammer, or when my car breaks down at 3am in a snowstorm…I really hate that. So hate is not always inappropriate, it becomes inappropriate when it is irrational…Is it irrational to intensely dislike Islam? Is it irrational to intensely dislike those who label you hateful for speaking the truth? I don’t hate these arrogant cretins, but I do hold them in contempt. The black magicians are bully’s…I intensely dislike bullies…Is that irrational?
alyn21 says
Garry Trudeau is a creep and an imbecile. i read once that the Trudeaus in the U,S. are related to the Trudeaus living in Canada. If that is true then we have Trudeau’s distant cousin Justin Trudeau who is currently the Leader of Her Majesty’s official opposition in the Canadian parliament. God help us if he ever gets elected Prime Minister as he is as big of a moron as his American cousin.
Dan says
April,
Every Trudeau I’ve ever heard of has be either crooked or stupid, or both.
Pierre was a socialist Castro lover.
Which probably explains why Justin loves China.
Then there’s Kevin Trudeau, a guy who’s such a fraudster he’s been banned from ever selling anything on those info sales programs.
Which he got around by selling books on the products instead because there’s some loophole about being able to write about products instead.
And now we have to talk about Garry.
Idiocy is so heavily tied to the Trudeau line I’m willing to accept it as scientific proof of genetics over environment.
Luciano says
Let’s see….it’s hate speech if it runs counter to his myopic belief system. But….let the screaming begin if someone infringes on his turf. I have a word which perfectly describes this mindset……hypocrisy!
alyn21 says
I have a better word. its call “MEATHEAD” dead from the neck up/
Dag says
Mockhammed.
http://www.amazon.com/Snootom-D-W-Walker/dp/0987761587/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1427136006&sr=1-1&keywords=snootom
John Carifidy says
Chris Muir at daybydaycartoon.com has Trudeau’s number…and everything else freedom lovin’ red blooded American infidels require. Come on over for the opening of the Double Down Club at the Double D ranch, where Free Speech is spoken.
Ed Letkiewicz says
I stopped reading this idiots comic in the 1980’s after he disparaged President Reagan. It does not surprise me that this horrible person is against free speech.
Rebecca says
Exactly. The funnies haven’t been funny for a long time. Another reason the newspapers barely hang on.
Volumetric says
Trouble is Trudeau ‘s new drinking pal is Noam Chomsky:
Trud: Another beer?
Chomp: Another what?!!
Trud: Umm… another bear?
Chomp: Oh that’s alright then…As I was about to say -colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
Trud: Oh that’s very funny.
Chomp: No it’s not. It’s syntactically correct but semantically it’s…
Trud: There’s an elephant in the room and it’s coming this way.
Chomp: Indeed that’s possible both syntactically and…
Trud: “Indeed”? How do you shoehorn that into Universal Grammar?
Rebecca says
Now, that is funny!
Keil says
They are all the same, the left-wingers. Their stance was once controversial, but today, in Europe and America, it’s mainstream. It’s not courageous what they do or say because it’s what the liberal policy-makers do.
Joe says
This phenomenon of uber-liberal social critics confronting only the safest of targets is masterfully addressed by Douglas Murray with Canadian TV host Michael Coren:
Savvy Kafir says
Trudeau’s comments are evidence of the belief so common among my fellow left-wingers — that Muslims are always victims … even when they’re shooting down cartoonists or beheading journalists or whatever. They can only be victims, in the eyes of most liberals.
And the idea that free speech leads to “fanaticism” is insane.
Aussie Infidel says
Good point Savvy Kafir. Both the Left and the Muslims see themselves as ‘victims’ of the Judeo-Christian/Humanist/Capitalist West, which supports freedom of speech and religion. So naturally, ‘the enemy of my enemy must be my friend’ – at least for now.
However, the ‘useful idiots’ of the Left don’t realize that the Muslims will never let them have their Socialist Utopia within an Islamic Caliphate, and will then wage jihad against them.
boocat says
What a tw*t.
Doug says
Never thought Doonesbury was in the slightest bit entertaining, sorry to read its conjurer is such a lefty nimrod.
Uncle Vladdi says
Re: “Free speech … becomes its own kind of fanaticism,” (Doonesbury cartoonist Garry) Trudeau said as he accepted a lifetime achievement award from the organization, adding that cartoonists’ role is to “punch up” rather than down.”
Yes, because to him, all muslims belong to a “race” of poor oppressed swarthy “People Of Colour.”
Liberals are racists: they always assume that ONLY White Western people (including, of course, the Jews in Israel,) are INTELLIGENT enough to be guilty of being truly evil, while all their pet “People Of Colour” (including the “swarthy palestinians”) being mentally inferior and all, just can’t help being enslaved by their instincts and emotions into acting as violent animals when frustrated, the poor oppressed little dears, so the liberals will always indulge their crimes, much as one ignores the new puppy as it pees on the rugs.
Rebecca says
Yes, Get Whitey…certain ones of them anyway… the super intelligent ones. “Only CERTAIN WHITE MEN had the intelligence to start the Capitalistic system and to maintain the type of civilization needed to keep it going.” A Marxist paraphrase aimed at the W.A.S.P.s and their mainland European brethren, the original colonizers of the U.S.A. and their extended relatives. Get rid of them (the super smart), and cater to the baser needs of the others and the power is yours. World domination by the almost, very close to smart lesser intelligent white people. Vladdi, sounds like you’ve read Lenin. Trudeau and his ilk are part of the “very close to smart bunch.” Not the real deal. Lefties like him have some truly hideous theories propping up their beliefs. A smart person of any color would disagree with Trudeau.
Uncle Vladdi says
Yes, ever since Lenin (at least!) lefties have been criminals – and here’s how: Leftism is all about “victimology.”
…and VICTIMOLOGY *IS* VICTIM-BLAMING SLANDER!
It’s an ideology – pretending by knowing an apparent effect, one can always accurately identify it’s definite cause (because this, that)!
c.f: “cum – or post – hoc, ergo propter hoc.”
… that, because there is a “minority,” it MUST have once been larger, and so “MUST” have been reduced (or inhibited) to that minority status by an “oppressive” majority!
Their perpetual victimology stance = Guilty-Until-Never-Proven-Innocent accusations, AND so forces their victims to try to “Prove a Negative!”
Uncle Vladdi says
Re: ““Free speech … becomes its own kind of fanaticism,” means he imagines one has a duty or responsibility not to hurt others’ feelings or offend them by exposing them to the often-painful truth.
The concommitant corollary is that he believes people have a right to not be offended or have their feelings hurt by the truth.
In other words, he wants to make it illegal to offend criminals by accusing them of their crimes, because that might “make” them commit even MORE crimes!
He is a cowardly masochist and traitor to rationality and civilization.
By endorsing ‘hate-crime’ extortion laws, he wants to make it illegal to accuse criminals of their crimes!
He wants the law to enable, aid and abet the cover-up of all crimes, so long as they’re committed by swarthy inferior “People Of Color!” After all, whitey has it coming to him!
gravenimage says
Garry Trudeau is fine with offending people—just so long as they are people he disdains, and who would never turn violent over being offended.
Rebecca says
Yes, we Americans need to bring “Them there’s fightin’ words!” back into our vocabulary and mean it.
george says
I can remember doonesbury being as funny as getting cancer, nothing has changed.<:o)
JayM says
Gary ought to be ashamed for this comment. I wish people would stop using the term “hate speech” as if it were a violation of law. In the USA “hate speech” is only a term that’s related to violent hate CRIMES, used to help determine intent. “Hate speech” by itself is not and should never be a crime, that’s counter to everything our founding fathers intended with the Constitution.
Uncle Vladdi says
Exactly.
These days, the truth needs official protection! In all these new “hate-crimes laws” it’s illegal to hate crimes and the criminal who commit them. They supposedly “replace” our basic anti-slander laws, which had the defense of the Truth (it’s not slander if it’s true) and where real, actual (not hypothetical) damages had to be proven in court! These days, you’re slanderoulsy pre-judged as “Guilty Until (Never) Proven Innocent!” BY the government courts, and if you even only *might* hurt some criminal’s feelings by accusing them of their crimes, and those silly facts that what you’re saying is true, no longer apply!
I hate crimes and the criminals that commit them – don’t you? Hate is only the perfectly natural human response of perpetual anger towards ongoing injustices (like islam); without hate, nobody’d ever even bother to accuse any criminals of their crimes, and so hope to end those crimes. In fact, liberals today try to pretend there’s no such things as crime and criminals, because we’re really all only victims anyway! They’d make it “illegal” to accuse any criminals of their crimes, if doing so might hurt their feelings, and so “make” them commit even more crimes! But when they try to make “hate crimes” illegal, they really only ever end up making it illegal to hate crimes!
Uncle Vladdi says
Bill Whittle et al, over at PJMedia, had this to say, here:
http://www.pjtv.com/series/trifecta-105/doonesbury-cartoonist-condemns-the-charlie-hebdo-satirists-10893/
“Trudeau said this, and I quote, “Traditionally, “satire has comforted the afflicted, “while afflicting the comfortable. “Satire punches up against authority of all kinds, “the little guy against the powerful. “By punching downward, by attacking a powerless, “disenfranchised minority with crude, vulgar drawings “closer to graffiti than cartoons, “Charlie Hebdo wandered into the realm of hate speech.” Now Steven Green, isn’t it good to see a left-wing artist standing up for the little guy against the oppressive power of western cartoonists?
An office full of people of cartoonists is the vast, powerful, majority against a religion of a billion adherents around the world. This is the level of thinking of Garry Trudeau.
Well, Trudeau went even further in his critique of the now stiff staff of Charlie Hebdo and others who would emulate them. He said this, “What free speech absolutists “have failed to acknowledge is that “because one has the right to offend a group “does not mean that one must, “or that the group gives up the right to be outraged. “They’re allowed to feel pain. “Freedom should always be discussed within the context “of responsibility.” Now, Bill Whittle, are you a free speech absolutist, or do you agree with Garry Trudeau, that offended Islamists are allowed to feel pain? – [Voiceover] So says the man who’s made his entire career, millions and millions and millions of dollars of offending half of the country or more that half of the country every day for his entire life, miserable, low-life, coward, hypocrite. So let’s get down to brass-tacks with Garry Trudeau and some of these statements that he’s made. First of all, you are not either a free– There’s no different shades of being a free speech person. Speech is either free or it is not free. It’s like pregnancy, you’re either pregnant or you’re not. You’re not 30% pregnant, you may be 30% along the way of pregnancy, but you are either pregnant or you are not. Speech is either free or it is not. If it is not completely free, then someone is going to determine what can be said and what cannot be said. When Garry Trudeau makes a statement like the people who were murdered by the blunt blades of these savages, had transcended a line into free speech and therefore deserved to die because that’s what he’s saying, they, therefore, deserved to be hacked to death in their cartoon offices. What he’s basically saying is that somebody has crossed a line on free speech and, therefore, deserved to die and that line is determined by…
Garry Trudeau, let’s say. Right?
Garry Trudeau will make a decision about what is hate speech and what’s not hate speech.
But ultimately, when it’s all said and done, when it’s all said and done it comes down to the physical cowardice of miserable, low-life hypocrites like this. They physical cowardice of them.
Trudeau and Doonesbury’s not been relevant since before 9/11, so I think he’s making this big, bold statement to show everybody how brave he is. But let me tell you something. This is where you know that these people are cowards because when you come out and accuse cartoonists and journalists of being worthy of being murdered, he has a fairly high sense of probability that these cartoonists, are not gonna come after him and his studio with rusty knives and saw his head off. So he gets to take his moral stand and gets to talk about what an incredibly brave, deep, incredibly nuanced individual he is, come out and make one statement about Islam, however, Garry and all of a sudden you have to start worrying about actual people, actually killing you and that requires actual courage, not the manufactured kind that you get out of your little bag of M&M’s. So, just to be clear, what he’s saying is there is no such thing as free speech, there’s gradated speech, which he alone will be the determinate of, the consequences of crossing the line for which are the murder of people of your own profession who deserved to die because, in his opinion, they crossed a line that shouldn’t be crossed. And the main thing is to say this in front of as many people at a large cocktail party so they all know that you’re relevant and hip and cool and smarter than everybody else and better than everybody else.
Well, nine or 10 days after Garry Trudeau’s speech, Ayaan Hirsi Ali gave a speech rebutting the Trudeau speech. Ali is a woman born into a Muslim family in Somalia. Later she rejected the faith of her fathers. A bold advocate for reforming Islam by rejecting Sharia law and rejecting the notion that the Koran is immutable and that Mohammed is infallible, she must travel with a body guard wherever she goes. I doubt that Garry Trudeau must do the same. That’s because leftists like Trudeau only speak truth to power when there’s absolutely no personal risk, like making fun of George H. W. Bush or Dan Quayle. Truth tellers like Ayaan Hirsi Ali know that there are some things deserving of hate speech: stoning women, mutilating genitals of children, throwing homosexuals from roof tops, shredding innocent shoppers in a market place and sawing the heads off of Christians. God hates that. Ayaan Hirsi Ali hates it. I hate it. And Garry Trudeau would do well to start hating it before the scimitar falls on his own milky, white neck. His moral equivalency and sniveling equivocation will not spare him from the wrath of Islam.
Rebecca says
It seems everyone, Trudeau included, has figured out how to make a fortune by making fun of Americans or harming them in some other way. And on top of it, Trudeau/others weaken the West by not sticking up for the truth in general. Thank you Vladdi for your observations.
quotha raven says
Uncle Vladdi – I always appreciate your comments because you think outside the box, that is to say, THINK before responding to an article or post here. I agree with your condemnation of Trudeau who exhibits the essence of “ethical narcissism” – a phrase introduced to these pages by another guy who thinks with originality and exceptional intelligence: Voegelinian. You might find his blog The Hesperado” instructive and a rich resource.Cheers! Quotha
Jerome from Layton says
If Gary finds his Karma, he will be wearing an orange jump suit at the time……….