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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Female genital mutilation persists in Indonesia

Apr 17, 2015 8:03 pm By Robert Spencer

indonesia-female-circumcisionFemale genital mutilation “is a Central African problem. Eritrea has almost 90 percent female genital mutilation. It’s a Christian country. Ethiopia has 75 percent female genital mutilation. It’s a Christian country. Nowhere else in the Muslim, Muslim-majority states is female genital mutilation an issue.” — Reza Aslan

Oops. Wrong again, and not just about Eritrea and Ethiopia being in Central Africa.

This Al Jazeera article calls FGM a “cultural” practice, but actually it is sanctioned by Islamic law: “Circumcision is obligatory (for every male and female) (by cutting off the piece of skin on the glans of the penis of the male, but circumcision of the female is by cutting out the bazr ‘clitoris’ [this is called khufaadh ‘female circumcision’]).” — ‘Umdat al-Salik e4.3, translated by Mark Durie, The Third Choice, p. 64

“Female genital mutilation persists in Indonesia,” by Marie Dhumieres, GlobalPost, April 16, 2015 (thanks to Kenneth):

JAKARTA, Indonesia — Komariah says she’ll show us how so-called female circumcision is done. She grabs a tangerine on the kitchen table, peels it and takes out a segment. She picks up a huge knife from a shelf. Then she bursts out laughing.

“I’m just kidding,” she says, before taking a much smaller pair of scissors. She sits at the table, holds the tangerine segment up, and carefully makes a small incision at the top. “That’s it!” She laughs again. Her daughter watches, shyly smiling. She was “circumcised” three days after she was born, 13 years ago.

At a midwives clinic in Jakarta, Sri Helmi Yuli is very firm. “Things have changed since then,” she says. “We used to cut a bit of the clitoris hood. And yes, there was a lot of blood. That used to be the right way to do it.”

Not anymore, she says. In the past 10 years, she says social campaigning by health workers — as well as government regulations — have forced the practice of female genital mutilation into the fringes. It is no longer an accepted practice in Indonesia. While the worst forms have largely fallen out of custom, the subtler practice still persists in potentially harmful ways.

“Now we only scratch the hood with a needle, drawing no blood,” says Sri Helmi Yuli, who is the head of the clinic. She tries to convince her patients that even this is not necessary, but says traditional beliefs in the benefits of the practice are stronger. “They see imams on TV saying they should do it and that influences them. So I just do the scratch.”

Indonesia is home to some 210 million Muslims, the world’s largest population. Researchers believe most Muslim women here are circumcised. The authorities banned the practice in 2006, but backpedaled in 2010 following pressure from some of the country’s powerful religious organizations.

The Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI), an influential quasi-government body of Muslim scholars, was one of them.

“The MUI met with the health ministry, and explained that banning female circumcision was against human rights, and sharia law,” says Huzaemah Yanggo, the vice president of the council’s fatwa commission.

She says female circumcision is not mandatory according to Islamic law. But in some interpretations it is “strongly recommended.”

That is contradicted by the material above.

“It will lead to a much purer and healthier life” for women, avoid infections, preserve their dignity, and help “stabilize” their libido, Yanggo claims. “If it’s not done, women will become oversexed.” The last point is the main argument Komariah gave for circumcising her daughter, like most people who support female circumcision in the country.

Government guidelines released in 2010 detailed how trained medical personnel should perform the procedure. The instructions infuriated women’s rights activists, who saw it as a clear indication that the government condoned it.

Health ministry officials insisted this wasn’t the case, arguing that it was better to provide guidance for a practice it couldn’t possibly prevent.

“We prefer the circumcision was done by a trained health worker rather than some random shaman or traditional healer, which may not be safe,” said the ministry’s former director of mothers’ health, Ina Hernawati, at the time. The decree allows “scratching the clitoral hood, without injuring the clitoris,” which the government argued was largely symbolic, and couldn’t be equated to female genital mutilation.

Yanggo, from the Ulema Council, claims, “We’re not like Sudan,” or other countries in parts of Africa and the Middle East, where female circumcision consists of removing part of or the entire clitoris. “What they do is not Islam, mutilation is of course forbidden. We don’t touch the clitoris,” she insists. She believes the government regulation helped reduce “bad practices.”

In Bandung, West Java, mass circumcisions are held every year for girls, from newborns to 12-year-olds, but organizers say they replaced “scissor snipping” with “pin pricking” several years ago.

A 2003 study found that 22% of 1,307 female “circumcision” cases were excisions (meaning part of the clitoris or labia was removed). Almost 50% involved incisions, 28% were “symbolic.”

There are no recent national statistics but experts believe the situation has improved in the past decade.

Atas Habsjah, vice chairwoman of the Indonesian Planned Parenthood Association (PKBI), acknowledges a transition from “scissor snipping” to “needle scratching,” but says it’s not enough. Most Indonesian girls, she says, still undergo some kind of circumcision. She argues that many clinics continue offering female circumcision because it’s “good business.” Female circumcision, like ear piercing, is charged as an optional extra to delivery.

“They shouldn’t do anything at all. There is no medical indication, and it’s not in the Quran. We say don’t touch the genitals, it’s against human rights,” she says.

The World Health Organization defines four types of female genital mutilation, all of which are banned. Type 4 includes “pricking, piercing or incising” the clitoris, and activists argue that’s what needle scratching is.

Activists say even calling it circumcision can hide the serious physical and psychological effects of the practice, and call it female genital mutilation or cutting.…

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Filed Under: Featured, female genital mutilation, Indonesia Tagged With: Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI)


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Comments

  1. rhondakelly07 says

    Apr 17, 2015 at 8:08 pm

    WHY NO ONE BUT ME POST UP HERE OR DO U TAKE DOWN POST?

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 17, 2015 at 9:45 pm

      No one else had posted here yet because the story had been up for less than five minutes—look at the time stamp above. It’s not as though you appear to have had anything to add…

  2. Ayatrollah says

    Apr 17, 2015 at 8:20 pm

    I have a pious friend from Bandung. I asked him if the girls had FGM. He did not answer. So of course they all do it. He did not want to talk about it because he knows people from the west don’t understand it is a obligatory Islamic practise.

    • particolor says

      Apr 18, 2015 at 9:02 pm

      Yeah ?? Well I think its an Idiotic Islamic Perversion !! 🙁

  3. gravenimage says

    Apr 17, 2015 at 9:37 pm

    Female genital mutilation “is a Central African problem. Eritrea has almost 90 percent female genital mutilation. It’s a Christian country. Ethiopia has 75 percent female genital mutilation. It’s a Christian country. Nowhere else in the Muslim, Muslim-majority states is female genital mutilation an issue.” — Reza Aslan
    ……………………

    My God, what crap. Not only is FGM widespread in Indonesia, Malaysia, and Iraq, but levels reach over 90% in Egypt, and almost 100% in Somalia. All of these countries are Muslim-majority.

    More:

    “Now we only scratch the hood with a needle, drawing no blood,” says Sri Helmi Yuli, who is the head of the clinic. She tries to convince her patients that even this is not necessary, but says traditional beliefs in the benefits of the practice are stronger. “They see imams on TV saying they should do it and that influences them. So I just do the scratch.”
    …

    “It will lead to a much purer and healthier life” for women, avoid infections, preserve their dignity, and help “stabilize” their libido, Yanggo claims. “If it’s not done, women will become oversexed.” The last point is the main argument Komariah gave for circumcising her daughter, like most people who support female circumcision in the country.
    ……………………

    Of course, these two things contradict each other. How would a “scratch” prevent women from being “oversexed”? Of course this refers to cutting out the clitoris.

    More:

    She argues that many clinics continue offering female circumcision because it’s “good business.” Female circumcision, like ear piercing, is charged as an optional extra to delivery.
    ……………………

    This is only “good business” because so many pious Muslims want to mutilate their daughters.

    And ear piercing is *nothing* like FGM. I didn’t have my ears pierced until I was 26 years old, and the only lasting effect from that is to enable me to wear a wider range of cute earrings—it didn’t prevent me from experiencing sexual pleasure.

    More:

    The World Health Organization defines four types of female genital mutilation, all of which are banned. Type 4 includes “pricking, piercing or incising” the clitoris, and activists argue that’s what needle scratching is.
    ……………………

    “Type 4” FGM is so rare that it scarcely exists. The most common form in Indonesia is Type I, which still cuts out the entire clitoris.

    • Rezali Mehil says

      Apr 18, 2015 at 5:19 am

      Salaam Graven,

      You say “And ear piercing is *nothing* like FGM. I didn’t have my ears pierced until I was 26 years old, and the only lasting effect from that is to enable me to wear a wider range of cute earrings—it didn’t prevent me from experiencing sexual pleasure”.

      You need to add the following to your own statement –
      Graven continues…..But it did prevent me from having children. My husband became so obsessed with my my extra “holes” that his sexual pleasure deviated sharply towards my ears. He wanted my ear holes to become bigger …like the Masai do in Africa…at one time he forced me to triple the size of these holes …to 0.5cm in each ear.

      This had the lasting effect of forcing me to wear the *wider* range of earring….ofcourse nobody knows about my exta wide holes except my sick hubby ..who puts his tongue in it TURN BY TURN. …his slobbering tongue with loads of saliva ..and hearing his moUth nashing away right next to my ears …lead me to promise myself …no children ..even if I could ..which OFCOURSE I CAN’T .

      this led to another bizarre side effect ….my dog had been watching us …and now he wants to attack my ears too….oh my days.

      The lesson here is for women to go ahead and have the minor fgm scratch …it is safer than having ears pierced.

      More Later ….

      Rezali

      • St. Michael Defend Us says

        Apr 18, 2015 at 8:40 am

        What a load of projection. This tells us a lot more about YOU than it does about Graven.

      • Medina says

        Apr 18, 2015 at 1:30 pm

        Oooooh Razey…may I call you that? It rhymes with crazy and way easier to remember. Dear, I know that sitting, riding a bicycle, or crossing your legs must hurt…all that scar tissue and the memory of the only people you trusted…mama, gramma, and your inbred aunties… standing over you with those shards and razors, prying apart your legs, purifying your little crotch–all because Mo was too lazy to bring any of his wives to orgasm. Laziness and self-centeredness is not a good foundation for a world religion, but the centuries of marrying your brothers and uncles has taken its toll.

        Fortunately we understand you here. Unlike the moon god worshippers, we know women with pierced ears can still procreate…Look at Ethel Kennedy, she had 11!! Try rubbing some cocoa butter down there, Razey. And follow it up with a big glass of anti-freeze. It tastes sweet.

        • quotha raven says

          Apr 19, 2015 at 7:45 am

          Rezali “…Tell me something…isn’t Robert Spencer and Pamela doing their fancy cartoon competition of Muhammad SAW for exactly the *very* same reason…”

          You really sound like a complete moron. But even morons can be dangerous, so I don’t like you. gr

      • Mirren10 says

        Apr 18, 2015 at 2:27 pm

        Normally, I treat the ghastly rezali with amused contempt, and happily take the piss out of his vile and deranged posts.

        This, however, in its obscene, and personal content towards gravenimage, goes beyond the pale. I have written to Robert and marc, telling them of this disgusting post, and requested it be deleted, and the vile rezali finally banned. No-one on this site, least of all gravenimage, should be the target of this sort of disgusting filth.

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 18, 2015 at 9:00 pm

          Thank you so much, Mirren. Usually I consider the comments of the vicious Rezali Mehil to be appalling but very instructive of the Muslim mindset. This is particularly unhinged, though.

          For anyone who may wonder why I am the recipient of Rezali Mehil’s crazed animus here, it is because I dared to criticize the horrifying rape of little nine-year-old Aisha by the pedophilic “Prophet”, which she considers “ordained by Allah SWT”.

          Warning! disturbing image:

          http://s478.photobucket.com/user/gravenimageartist/media/AishasWedding-1.jpg.html

        • Rezali Mehil says

          Apr 19, 2015 at 6:19 am

          Salaam Mirrel10,

          So you want to running to papa… you want freedom of expression for yourself ..but not for us “barbarians”.

          Tell me something…isn’t Robert Spencer and Pamela doing their fancy cartoon competition of Muhammad SAW for exactly the *very* same reason…”the hell with what someone thinks… no body can stop me from my right to express something…no matter what the mental harm to a billion peoples …and in your own words no matter its obscene, and personal content towards a billion muslims…which will go beyond the pale for them…. I want to and *can* do it …

          and you want to run to papa because of graven…you hypocritical bitch.

          Well …let me tell you ….muslims do’t run to their papa …muslims have their papa with them 24*7 and he SWT empowers them.

          It is why Islam is duniya ..and duniya will be Islam.

          deal with it ….

          More Later ….

          Rezali

        • Rezali Mehil says

          Apr 19, 2015 at 8:31 am

          Mirren10,

          Spencer will not ban me …by doing so he will fail the acid test of “everyone having the right to freedom of expression”.

          His banning of me will be seen by kuffar and then he will be seen as a fraud by them …and I believe Spencer (whatever his slant) isn’t a fraud…he has been challenged and will be in the future… by much more robust peoples than by a simple muslima like me.

          He will see you as the wimp that are…your despite your poor exterior posture.

          More Later …

          Rezali

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 19, 2015 at 8:44 am

          I’m not going to reply to the repulsive rezali directly, because he doesn’t deserve the compliment of a direct reply, and doesn’t have the intelligent wherewithal to grasp what I’m saying anyway, but his ridiculous conflation with *his* personally obscene post towards graven, and cartoons of mohammed, claiming *both* are free speech issues, and exactly the same, needs to be addressed.

          Firstly, and most obviously, this is a private blog, owned by one person. That person has the right to choose what comments appear here, or not, it is their own personal decision. So rezali’s ridiculous comment has no place here, in terms of ”freedom of expression”. No-one has any obligation to allow any individual to rant obscenities in their own virtual living room, so to speak.

          If Robert and marc allow this comment to stand, that is their prerogative, but the decision to do so, or otherwise, will have nothing to do with ‘freedom of expression’.

          Secondly. rezali attempts to equate satirical and mocking cartoons of mohammed, highlighting various scenes from his vicious life, in contrast with what decent people value, with his obscene and personal attack on gravenimage.

          How irredeemably stupid. mohammed, if he ever existed, is dead; an historical, and public, figure who is held to have carried out certain acts and behaviours during his lifetime, which to any normal human being, are seen as vicious, evil, and violent, but which are revered by ”a billion muslims”, and used by them as an **example to follow**.

          Any historical figure, indeed, any **public** figure, is a legitimate target for satire, mockery, and lampooning. In law, the charge of slander, or libel, does not apply. Unless, and except, in the case of a public figure, alive today, when he or she has been deliberately lied about, and accused of things they have never done.

          All historical figures, including Jesus Christ, have been deal with in this way, by some people, at some times, in one way or another.

          To claim, as muslims do, and the vile rezali does, that mohammed is a special case, because he claimed to be a prophet, and a messenger of God, and is therefore sacrosanct, holds no water whatsoever. muslims have a right to be *offended* by cartoons of mohammed; and no-one is stopping them from saying so; but they have no right to express that sense of offence by rioting, violence, and murder, or demanding that everyone else treats their ‘prophet’ as they do, and censor themselves, or muzzle their freedom of speech.

          Christ Himself said he was the **Son of God**. That has not prevented people, at various times, from mocking and lampooning the idea. Christians find this offensive, and have said so, as they have every right to do, but they don’t express their offence by rioting, burning, and murdering, or demanding that everyone else should share their beliefs about Christ, and censor and muzzle themselves.

          muslims like rezali will never be able to grasp this essential difference.

          Gravenimage is not an historical, or public figure. She is a private individual, who chooses to comment on this site.

          What rezali directed towards graven, is neither satire, mockery, or lampooning, but personal and vicious obscenity, directed at a living person, because graven dared to draw a powerful and disturbing depiction of what the rape of Aisha would actually have looked like. This sort of puerile and childishly obscene personal attack on a living human being, is *not* an example of freedom of speech, but an example of a typically spiteful, vicious muslim, who doesn’t have the intellectual capacity to deal with an issue objectively, but instead resorts to the sort of rubbish we see in rezali’s comment, which reads like the nasty obscenities sex obsessed little boys scrawl on walls.

          And muslims like rezali will never be able to grasp this, either.

          As for the rest of rezali’s supremacist rant, all I can say is, it ain’t ever going to happen. Deal with it.

        • Rezali Mehil says

          Apr 19, 2015 at 2:59 pm

          Salaam Mirren10,

          Oh I am an intelligent muslima al-right … I have a degree from a British University.

          M10- JW is a private blog, owned by one person..

          too right and most importantly …that person is not you….and therefore you don’t get to choose …. JW is too big and too important now to be considered a private blog….and therefore my comment does have a right to be here.

          M10- Gravenimage is not an historical, or public figure. She is a private individual, who chooses to comment on this site.

          And if she chooses to stop commenting …that’s up to her …and who the f*ck r u to comment on her behalf …let her speak herself …keep your obese butt out of it.

          M10- What rezali directed towards graven, is neither satire, mockery, or lampooning, but personal and vicious obscenity, directed at a living person,

          It is a matter of taste and opinion … I think it is satire …and let’s have a look at Spencer and Pamela…their competition will be considered to be a personal and vicious obscenity, directed at a billion muslims …all of whom are living….but does that not count?….thought not!!!

          Frankly, your arguments are hollow and without substance …you want to stand up for a person who you don’t even know … and now your little mind and big feelings got a whipping and you want to run to papa for help….LOL as been the way for kuffar …tenents of history …kuffarism – post history.

          More Later…

          Rezali

        • CornHolio says

          Apr 19, 2015 at 3:28 pm

          “Oh I am an intelligent muslima al-right … I have a degree from a British University.”
          ——
          What are you implying? That Islamic universities don’t produce intelligent Muslimas? Or that there aren’t any Islamic universities that ACCEPT Muslimas? Or that there AREN’T any Islamic universities? What are you SAYING?

          “let her speak herself …keep your obese butt out of it”
          ——
          And how exactly do you know that Mirren has an obese butt? Do you have supernatural powers? Are you in league therefore with the Shaitan? .You are, aren’t you? (denying it would only prove you are, since Satan is the “best of deceivers.” No wait, that’s Allah, isn’t it? I get them confused).

          But hey, you know what’s real slimming for an obese butt? YOU know, don’t you? That “Slimming Miracle of the 7th Century”: the Burqa! (and some kuffar STILL say that Muhammad didn’t perform any miracles! He’s got a billion-plus people today – most of whom can’t even READ – thinking the QURAN is the best book ever written, CHOOSING to hide their possibly-obese butts in stifling black garbage bags, and choosing to be led around by their husband owners in the desert heat, and they say he’s not miraculous?
          Buncha idiots, right Rezali?

          *you want to stand up for a person who you don’t even know*
          —–
          As compared to your standing up for a Prophet that you don’t even know, and who might not even have existed, and if he DID exist, was demonstrably a scumbag?
          Sorry! A “scumbag, peace be upon him”.

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 19, 2015 at 4:48 pm

          More from the repulsive Rezali Mehil:

          Salaam Mirrel10,

          So you want to running to papa… you want freedom of expression for yourself ..but not for us “barbarians”.
          ………………………………………

          What complete and absolute rot. Muslims regularly crush freedom of speech, and their methods seldom involve things like removal of blog posts, but threats, imprisonment, physical attacks, and murder. That Rezali Mehil would whine about Infidels supposedly censoring Muslims in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo massacre could not be more perverse.

          It is notable that so many Mohammedans fail to grasp the simple difference between public and private space—but it should come as no surprise, both because the concept of the private individual scarcely exists in Islam, nor, of course, does freedom of expression.

          More:

          Tell me something…isn’t Robert Spencer and Pamela doing their fancy cartoon competition of Muhammad SAW for exactly the *very* same reason…
          ………………………………………

          Rezali Mehil has every right to stand on a street corner somewhere and rant about me all day long—this would only be possibly curtailed if she physically threatens me. But what she is demanding is that someone *provide her with a platform* for airing her views.

          No one owes anyone a platform—not for Mirren, not for myself, and not for Rezali Mehil. The difference is that the civilized Infidels here are not demanding one.

          More:

          ”the hell with what someone thinks… no body can stop me from my right to express something…no matter what the mental harm to a billion peoples …and in your own words no matter its obscene, and personal content towards a billion muslims…which will go beyond the pale for them…. I want to and *can* do it …
          ………………………………………

          That a billion Muslims consider any criticism of the vicious “Prophet’s” career of pedophilia, rape, kidnapping, caravan raiding, slavery assassination, and mass murder is the problem—that and their insistence on following the foul model of Muhammed themselves.

          Rezali Mehil and other pious Muslims say we are causing them “mental harm” if we dare to defend against our own enslavement and murder. We reject that demand.

          More:

          and you want to run to papa because of graven…you hypocritical bitch.
          ………………………………………

          There is nothing whatsoever hypocritical about this. And now Rezali Mehil has stepped over the line again with an a personal attack on Mirren.

          More:

          Well …let me tell you ….muslims do’t run to their papa …muslims have their papa with them 24*7 and he SWT empowers them.

          It is why Islam is duniya ..and duniya will be Islam.

          deal with it ….
          ………………………………………

          Here Rezali Mehil is asserting that Muslims threaten, oppress, and murder in Allah and the “Prophet’s” name. We are, of course, all too aware of this.

          Yet more:

          Spencer will not ban me …by doing so he will fail the acid test of “everyone having the right to freedom of expression”.

          His banning of me will be seen by kuffar and then he will be seen as a fraud by them …and I believe Spencer (whatever his slant) isn’t a fraud…he has been challenged and will be in the future… by much more robust peoples than by a simple muslima like me.
          ………………………………………

          Again, a demand by Muslims that unless Infidels provide them with a forum for airing their foul views that they are being denied their freedom of speech.

          More:

          Oh I am an intelligent muslima al-right … I have a degree from a British University.
          ………………………………………

          The sad thing is that Rezali Mehil probably *does* represent an intelligent muslima—as close as one is likely to get, in amy case. Depressing—but then, Islam has always despised reason and the use of the mind.

          More:

          M10- JW is a private blog, owned by one person..

          too right and most importantly …that person is not you….and therefore you don’t get to choose …. JW is too big and too important now to be considered a private blog….and therefore my comment does have a right to be here.
          ………………………………………

          I suppose this is, in a way, a backhanded compliment to Robert Spencer’s importance.

          But consider the idea here—by this “reasoning”, Robert Spencer would have to allow the Islamic State to take over his blog, or else he would be guilty of denying them their freedom of speech.

          Rezali Mehil is either cognitively incapable of discerning this flaw in her thinking, or else she hopes that we are.

          More:

          M10- Gravenimage is not an historical, or public figure. She is a private individual, who chooses to comment on this site.

          And if she chooses to stop commenting …that’s up to her …and who the f*ck r u to comment on her behalf …let her speak herself …keep your obese butt out of it.
          ………………………………………

          The idea that freedom of speech does not include speaking on someone else’s part would be odd—but Muslims like this one just want to leave Infidels vulnerable and undefended. And the out-of-left-field “obese” reference just shows that she is becoming desperate.

          More:

          M10- What rezali directed towards graven, is neither satire, mockery, or lampooning, but personal and vicious obscenity, directed at a living person,

          It is a matter of taste and opinion … I think it is satire …and let’s have a look at Spencer and Pamela…their competition will be considered to be a personal and vicious obscenity, directed at a billion muslims …all of whom are living….but does that not count?….thought not!!!
          ………………………………………

          Really, Rezali Mehil is becoming increasingly unhinged. My private relationship with my husband—leaving aside Rezali Mehill’s bizarre and grotesque speculations—affects no one else.

          But, as she has emphasized here over and over, the life of the baleful “Prophet” serves as a model for over a billion Muslims.

          Rezali Mehil herself has defended the terrible pedophilic rape of hundreds of thousands (a conservative figure) of little girls as young as nine on the model of Muhammed, claiming that such abuse is condoned by Allah.

          And she believes that we have no right to stand against this barbarism.

          More:

          …and now your little mind and big feelings got a whipping and you want to run to papa for help….LOL as been the way for kuffar …tenents of history …kuffarism – post history.
          ………………………………………

          And, of course, she closes with a threat that we are all going to fall to the Muslims hordes.

          More:

          Frankly, your arguments are hollow and without substance …you want to stand up for a person who you don’t even know …
          ………………………………………

          Muslims will never understand that decent Infidels *do* stand up for people we don’t even know, and that this goes far beyond Mirren standing up for me, much as I appreciate it.

          Jihad Watch and the good Infidels here stand up for abused children, for “Honor Killed” wives, for enslaved schoolgirls, for those killed in suicide bombings—indeed, for all the victims of Muslim violence, and, moreover, we work for a world where Muslim savagery is ended.

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 19, 2015 at 5:13 pm

          ”Rezali Mehil says

          April 19, 2015 at 2:59 pm”

          With reference to this incoherent reply, which fails to deal with any of the points I made in any substantive way, but continues to resort to hysterical personal insult, apparently under the erroneous impression this kind of nonsense is an intelligent argument:

          ”Oh I am an intelligent muslima al-right … I have a degree from a British University.”

          This is a logic fallacy. An argument from authority, is no argument at all. To have a degree from a university, British or otherwise, is no guarantee of intelligence, probity, or the ability to craft a logical argument.

          Such qualities are judged by intelligent people according to the strength, or not, of the argument presented; to claim one is intelligent because one has a degree, is foolishness. Many fools graduate because they spoke what was expected, what was PC/MC, what was acceptable. Many intelligent, and famous people, who have the ability to argue logically, have never been to a university. The ownership of a university degree guarantees nothing in terms of intelligence, except on a merely superficial level.

          A possible exception to this would be in terms of a degree in the hard sciences; but again, this would prove an individual was capable of understanding quantum physics, but would say nothing either for or against moral intelligence, probity, logical argument, et al.

          ”M10- JW is a private blog, owned by one person..

          too right and most importantly …that person is not you….and therefore you don’t get to choose …. JW is too big and too important now to be considered a private blog….and therefore my comment does have a right to be here.”

          I did not say *I* ‘got to choose’. I pointed out Jihad Watch is Robert’s blog, and therefore whether a comment stays, or is deleted, is *his* call, no-one else’s.

          Again, rezali fails to apply logic. Whether or not Jihad Watch is ‘too big and too important’, speaks nothing to the fact that it is *still* a private blog, and therefore Robert decides what stays, or goes. Consequently, whether or not rezali’s comment ”does have a right to be here”, is Robert’s call, not rezali’s.

          rezali is also trying to imply that I have no right to object to his obscene post. This is rubbish, I have every right to do so; whether my objections are acted on, or not, is, again, Robert’s prerogative, not mine.

          ”M10- Gravenimage is not an historical, or public figure. She is a private individual, who chooses to comment on this site.

          And if she chooses to stop commenting …that’s up to her …and who the f*ck r u to comment on her behalf …let her speak herself …keep your obese butt out of it”

          Here again, rezali betrays his total inability to understand either the concept of free speech, or the dynamics of an internet blog which has an arena for comments.

          I was not ”commenting on her (graven’s) behalf”. I was commenting on **my** behalf, in the sense I found rezali’s comment to be utterly disgusting, obscene, and a personal attack outside the realms of the subject matter being discussed; ie: **female genital mutilation**. (On which topic, by the by, rezali has not evinced one single comment **against** this vile procedure). Neither am I preventing graven herself from commenting, if she chooses to do so.

          ” … keep your obese butt out of it” 🙂

          As Cornholio has pointed out, (thanks, Cornholio) rezali has absolutely no knowledge whatsoever as to whether I am obese, skinny, or just nicely, thank you. This sort of invective is merely symptomatic of the flailing hatred evinced by muslims the left, and any other totalitarian, when they are losing the argument, and *know* they are losing the argument.

          ”M10- What rezali directed towards graven, is neither satire, mockery, or lampooning, but personal and vicious obscenity, directed at a living person,

          It is a matter of taste and opinion … I think it is satire …and let’s have a look at Spencer and Pamela…their competition will be considered to be a personal and vicious obscenity, directed at a billion muslims …all of whom are living….but does that not count?….thought not!!!”

          No, it actually isn’t a ”matter of taste and opinion”. Anyone with a brain cell knows there is a huge difference between Swift satirising the society of his day, in say, Gulliver’s Travels, and a street urchin scrawling ” Queen Anne is a big fat dirty pig who wets the bed” on the wall of St. Paul’s. One is elegant and clever, the other is merely a personal, obscene, attack, which tells us nothing as to Queen Anne herself, or the quality of her government.

          ” … let’s have a look at Spencer and Pamela…their competition will be considered to be a personal and vicious obscenity, directed at a billion muslims ”

          Well, really, rezali can’t show more clearly, his total lack of understanding of free speech. Drawing cartoons of mohammed is lampooning mohammed and his character; not specifically directed at the sensibilities of all those poor little oh so sensitive muslims. But if rezali and his ilk choose to take it so, so what ? As noted in my previous post, this is a time honoured way of taking the piss out of historical and or public figures. But no need to belabour the point; people with intelligence will understand my argument, even if the revolting rezali does not.

          ”Frankly, your arguments are hollow and without substance …”

          I think I have shown that in fact, it is rezali’s arguments that should be so described.

          ” … you want to stand up for a person who you don’t even know.”

          rezali apparently thinks that to defend a person whom one hasn’t actually met in the flesh, is somehow reprehensible. I’ve never met a lot of people whom I would defend against vicious calumny and insult.

          And is rezali totally unable to see the idiocy of what he’s just said ? I am quite **sure**, given the fact that time travel doesn’t exist, that rezali has never personally met mohammed, but he is determined to stand up for him, even though he doesn’t actually **know him** !! 🙂

          ” … and now your little mind and big feelings got a whipping and you want to run to papa for help….LOL as been the way for kuffar …tenents of history …kuffarism – post history”

          I rather think it is rezali who got a ‘whipping’ here. But he will never be able to understand or acknowledge this. Poor old chumbawumba.

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 19, 2015 at 5:25 pm

          Goodness me, graven, we must have been writing our comments neck and neck ! 🙂

          Brava, matey !

        • Champ says

          Apr 20, 2015 at 2:46 am

          Mirren10, so glad that you reported this vile comment from ‘rezali’ to Robert! And this comment is abuse, and “free speech” does not include abusive language (as ‘rezali’ contends).

        • Rezali Mehil says

          Apr 20, 2015 at 4:19 am

          @Champ ….

          Ahhhhh…the hanger on arrives …just on time like always…

          grabbing one of the coat tails champ says …and “free speech” does not include abusive language (as ‘rezali’ contends).

          Neither does drawing the most wilful caricutures of the Rasool SAW which is highly abusive “language” (but not seen as the same by Graven, Spencer et al).

          Rezali

      • Jay Airahs says

        Apr 18, 2015 at 2:51 pm

        Muhammad had no class either, so Rezali Mehil is just following in Muhammad’s shameless example once again. The Shia actually believe that Muhammad’s heartbroken gay lover donkey who supposedly committed suicide in grief over dead Muhammad by jumping into a well will become the twelfth imam.

        What can we expect.
        Islam began in the mind of a little boy named Muhammad over 1400 years ago in a far away land in barren neighborhood where strangely, the flies around little boy Muhammad had no wings and the ants had no legs and Muhammad’s little ‘pets’ somehow always ended up dying gruesome deaths.

        Who killed Muhammad?
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6st_tFj6ouM
        Was it Aisha or was it a Jewish woman whose family was butchered by Muhammad?

        http://www.islam-watch.org/authors/112-mohammad/660-why-aisha-poisoned-muhammad-not-jewish-woman-1.html

      • voegelinian says

        Apr 18, 2015 at 4:41 pm

        Rezali is a curious troll; “he” (as in she-male) only appears once in a blue moon, deposits his pile of fragrant turds laced with toxic provocations, then vanishes and never responds to any responses to him (and the responses to him over the years have been mostly informed challenges he fails to address). Only twice has he responded to someone — to me, when I twice before pointed out that he never responds; he protested that he does respond, but the evidence shows otherwise.

      • gravenimage says

        Apr 18, 2015 at 8:43 pm

        This from Rezali Mehil is even creepier and more bizarre than usual. Good grief…

        • Jay Airahs says

          Apr 18, 2015 at 8:52 pm

          gravenimage
          In a strange creepy way this may be a good thing.
          Rezali must realize that his old tricks fool no one and is lashing out in desperation to cover up for Islam’s emptiness and depredation.

      • Champ says

        Apr 20, 2015 at 2:37 am

        Wow a new low from the vile & vicious ‘rezali mehil’; and yet I don’t think that we’ve read the worst that this gross hate-filled mohammedan can invent.

        And ‘prophet’ mohammed was a sexual deviant, as well, sooo …

        Notice how ‘rezali’ makes excuses for her wicked and gross comment by defending her position:

        “It is a matter of taste and opinion … I think it is satire …and let’s have a look at Spencer and Pamela…their competition will be considered to be a personal and vicious obscenity, directed at a billion muslims …all of whom are living….but does that not count?….thought not!!!” — rezali

        Oh sure, it’s only “satire”? Well, only a twisted perp lacking in taste would find her comment even remotely satirical. Odd thing is, there is no “satire” being demonstrated in her gross comment to Graven; since there is not an ounce of *truth* in what was written about Graven. In order for something to be satirical, then the satire needs to expose some measure of truth about that person. So all ‘rezali’ did was expose herself as evil and cruel–again.

        And as to ‘rezali’ feeling justified in attacking Graven …hey don’t they ALL feel justified in attacking whomever, or whatever? Of course she isn’t justified here; since the art work Graven has done is a message of Truth about mohammed; and if what Graven protrayed was a lie, then that would be a different story–but it’s the truth! The problem isn’t with Graven, but with ‘rezali’s’ unwillingness to acknowledge the ugly truth about muhammad. So ‘rezali’ attacks the messenger because the message of truth is too hot for ‘rezali’ to handle.

        Evil in, evil out–that’s what we’ve come to expect from ‘rezali’ and company.

        • Champ says

          Apr 20, 2015 at 2:51 am

          typo: portrayed

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 20, 2015 at 5:51 am

          Well said, Champ.

        • Rezali Mehil says

          Apr 20, 2015 at 9:41 am

          @Champ…

          Champ – ‘prophet’ mohammed was a sexual deviant, …

          the prophet SAW was lion…all the women wanted his seed…he gave them noor , wisdom and sexual gratification,. He helped in daily chores when he could (being busy interacting with Angel Gibreel and all) …the women revered him.

          Champ – Well, only a twisted perp lacking in taste would find her comment even remotely satirical.

          I think I can safely say that at least 1 billion would find it satirical and probably all the Western comedians too… interestingly graven herself has not written it off …so there is the truth element that you were looking for.

          Champ the problem isn’t with Graven,…

          well of course it is…you have problems too… but hers’ are far worse…she has been fighting to get offspring for over 20 years and has been highly unsuccessful (obviously) …further she has failed to take my advice on progressing this issue and instead resorted to painting sadistic painting of Aiesha in pain …when infect this was a holy union.

          I will continue to help her as best as I can …and indeed she needs to heed my advice to progress in life.

          and you…you need to get out more with your grandchildren and leave other peoples to fight thier own battles….don’t you have a business to run or something?.

          More Later …

          Rezali

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 20, 2015 at 2:26 pm

          Thank you, Champ. Your comments about the nature and purpose of satire is spot-on.

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 20, 2015 at 2:55 pm

          Yet more from Rezali Mehil:

          Champ – ‘prophet’ mohammed was a sexual deviant, …

          the prophet SAW was lion…all the women wanted his seed…he gave them noor , wisdom and sexual gratification,. He helped in daily chores when he could…
          …………………………………

          The truth is—as shown by Islamic texts themselves—that the “Prophet” never really had a non-coercive relationship with any woman after his first marriage to Kadija. His victims included a woman whose husband and father he had just murdered, his own daughter-in-law, sex slaves, and poor little 9-year-old Aisha.

          Any decent person—which excludes pious Muslims, of course—would find this deviant, and in the ugliest way possible.

          More:

          Champ – Well, only a twisted perp lacking in taste would find her comment even remotely satirical.

          I think I can safely say that at least 1 billion would find it satirical and probably all the Western comedians too… interestingly graven herself has not written it off …so there is the truth element that you were looking for.
          …………………………………

          That Rezali Mehil now believes she is one of the world’s great comedians is just odd. But then, she also considers her comments intelligent, so this is hardly her first instance of self-deception.

          And the idea that someone need protest against the truthfulness of such a bizarre and baseless fantasy is just ridiculous.

          More:

          …further she has failed to take my advice on progressing this issue and instead resorted to painting sadistic painting of Aiesha in pain …when infect this was a holy union.
          …………………………………

          “Infect” is an interesting Freudian slip. And notable that Rezali Mehil does not consider the rape of a third-grader to be sadistic, but just its honest portrayal.

          More:

          I will continue to help her as best as I can …and indeed she needs to heed my advice to progress in life.
          …………………………………

          If I recall correctly, her “advice” to me included that my husband convert to Islam, take up wife beating, polygamy, and pedophilia—oh, and as she notes above, that I should suffer FGM.

          In other words, she wants all Infidel women to suffer under the foul creed of Islam. *Ugh*.

          And of course she tries to be dismissive of Champ, but Champ has shown many times here that has Rezali Mehil’s number.

        • Champ says

          Apr 20, 2015 at 3:29 pm

          Great response, Graven …

          And ‘rezali mehil’ certainly has defined just how twisted and evil her screwed-up mind is, especially on this thread.

          You wrote:

          “’Infect’ is an interesting Freudian slip. And notable that Rezali Mehil does not consider the rape of a third-grader to be sadistic, but just its honest portrayal.”

          Indeed; and ‘rezali’ even stated that mohammad having sex with a young child was a “holy union”. Wow she certainly has defined herself with that disgusting remark–leaving zero doubt about just how evil and deranged ‘rezali’ truly is! Yes, ‘rezali’ is a shining example of evil–just like mohammad was.

        • Champ says

          Apr 20, 2015 at 4:02 pm

          Graven wrote:

          Thank you, Champ. Your comments about the nature and purpose of satire is spot-on.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          You’re welcome, Graven.

          What ‘rezail’ wrote about you wasn’t “satire” at all, but a gross maligning of your person that isn’t even true. And I never expect ‘rezali’ to offer an honest assessment of what she writes here; but for her to call her gross comment to you “satire” only adds to her pathetic and soulless lies.

          Nor can ‘rezali’ handle the ugly truth about muhammad: that this evil man was a child molestor, and probably the most notorious criminal that ever lived. And who lied by claiming to be a ‘prophet’ of God. Jeez who in their right mind follows such a man?! Yes, you guessed it, a person who’s certainly NOT in their right mind–which is proven by ‘rezali’s’ insane and disgusting comments here on JW. Wow ‘rezali’ has chosen *most* unwisely. Again, I say, Wow!

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 21, 2015 at 3:12 pm

          One other point, Champ—once I got over the sheer ickyness and weirdness of Rezali Mehil’s sick fantasy about me, I realized that even if this were not so false that it *still* would not be nearly as harmful as her “Prophet’s” relationships, which included wife beating, rape, forced marriage, polygamy, sex slavery, pedophilia, necrophilia, and forcing his own adopted son to divorce his wife so that he could take her.

          I can think of no other figure who has caused so much suffering, and for so long a time.

        • Champ says

          Apr 22, 2015 at 6:59 pm

          Yes–great point, Graven!

      • Paul says

        Apr 20, 2015 at 4:48 am

        Your ‘god’ Allah (Mahound’s alter ego) is a modern version of
        Baal, who we are specifically told not to worship in the Bible.
        I could point out to you the fact that the star and crescent moon
        moon symbol has always been used to depict Satan and that
        the God of the Bible will turn away from those who worship the
        sun, the moon and the stars (Mahoundian prayer times), but
        it wouldn’t make any difference to you.
        You’re an idiot and you’re on the highway to hell.

        More later….

  4. Sabri S. says

    Apr 17, 2015 at 9:38 pm

    Highly doubtful….f g m is not a part of islam, and has
    No mention in the koran…a vicious barbaric practice pushed
    By outdated customs of backward societies should not be
    Linked to any Abraham I c faith…

    • Philippe Watel says

      Apr 18, 2015 at 12:28 am

      a) Islam is not the Koran only – so you have no idea what Islam is obviously
      b) Even if this barbaric practice did exist before Momo’s time, the fact that Momo is the perfect man to emulate and he condoned it explicitly in a few occasion to keep his women more quiet. well here is your link to an Abrahamic faith.
      c) Since then it is part of Islam why then it would appear in Indonesia

      • voegelinian says

        Apr 18, 2015 at 5:36 pm

        Yes, this is exactly the type of example that comes up when Islamopologists slyly (when they’re Muslims) or ineptly (when they are non-Muslim do-gooders) try to say that “it’s not in the Koran” therefore it’s not Islamic.

        As I wrote on another recent comments thread here:

        This is not only important not only generally speaking, but in the spirit of the battle space in the war of ideas theater concerning “Know-Thine-Enemy” this knowledge of the extra-Koranic aspect of mainstream Islam helps us against the typical taqiyya attempts by Muslims insisting that they are “Koran only” (or slyly implying such without actually saying so).

        More on this:

        The Koran is important — but don’t forget the Hadiths

        http://1389blog.com/2012/07/24/the-korans-important-but-dont-forget-the-hadiths/

    • BC says

      Apr 18, 2015 at 5:23 am

      Why is FGM practised in those SE Asian lands far from the Arab countries? Because the Muslim missionaries took it there when they imposed Islam on those people. They obviously thought it
      essential or they would not have introduced it there.

      • Steve says

        Apr 18, 2015 at 11:53 am

        “Why is FGM practised in those SE Asian lands far from the Arab countries?”

        Wasnt it a cultural practice that existed in southeast asia long before Islam? There are other explanations to it besides just blaming religion on it.

        • CornHolio says

          Apr 18, 2015 at 12:25 pm

          “Wasnt it a cultural practice that existed in southeast asia long before Islam? There are other explanations to it besides just blaming religion on it.”
          ——–
          I am so sick of that fallacious PC “all or nothing” defence of the “Religion of Peace” – the counter that since Muhammad did not originate a particular evil practice, that it existed before and after him, that he and his ideology are therefore blameless when it comes to that horrible practice.

          Islam did not invent FGM, nor did it invent slavery and wife-beating and torture and robbery and wholesale murder, but that is no defence. Muhammad condoned all those things, and the fact that others did as well before and after him, does NOT exonerate him or his faith ONE TINY BIT!

          When will you PC apologists and enablers realize that?

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 18, 2015 at 2:53 pm

          *Excellent* points, Cornholio. and thank you for making them, although it shouldn’t have been necessary; your logic is obvious to anyone possessed of half a brain cell.

        • voegelinian says

          Apr 18, 2015 at 5:39 pm

          Good point, Corn Holio. That commenter “Steve” was trying to pull a Tu Quoque fast one (where the “Tu” here are the pre-Islamic SE Asians — any “Tu” will do, as long as it’s non-Muslim, in order to relocate the blame anywhere else but on Muslims following their Islam).

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 18, 2015 at 9:50 pm

          Fine post, CornHolio.

        • gravenimage says

          Apr 19, 2015 at 4:59 pm

          Steve wrote:

          Wasnt it a cultural practice that existed in southeast asia long before Islam? There are other explanations to it besides just blaming religion on it.
          …………………………….

          Actually, no.

          FGM did exist pre-Islam in Africa, where is was sometimes referred to as “pharaonic circumcision”, but it is *not* indigenous to southeast Asia.

          FGM traveled to southeast Asia with Islam.

    • quotha raven says

      Apr 18, 2015 at 7:06 am

      A couple of years ago I was describing this barbaric custom to a girlfriend with whom I was discussing Egypt. She had never heard of the practice. I did a little research, and the World Health Organization reports that 90% of Egyptian women have been subjected to fgm.

      I traveled extensively for four months as a journalist in West Africa, Central Africa and Ethiopia, Sudan, Tanzania and Zimbabwe in 1973. I learned that this practice is pretty universal throughout Africa, and not only with Muslims. Interestingly, it is the women who carry on the tradition, believing their daughters are unmarriageable without it. I met an American black woman, married to a West African and living in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. She told me about an Ethiopian friend of hers who had had the operation. Then this Ethiopian woman studied at the Sorbonne and became immersed in western ideas.

      She swore no daughter of hers would ever be subjected to fgm. A few years later, this young woman took a vacation to Europe with her husband, leaving her two year old daughter in the care of her grandmother. When the mother got back, her own mother had seen to it that her grandchild was “circumcised”, to the horror of the child’s mother. The grandmother simply couldn’t live with the idea of her granddaughter’s being in that “unclean” condition, ineligible for marriage.

      In (then) Upper Volta, a Mossi woman explained to me that for a “vrai, vrai Mossi” must have the operation and a very thorough one, or during parturition, a baby might touch the remains of the clitoris or labia and would be born dead, as if poisoned. She took great pride in being a Mossi. I asked her why other local tribes also practiced this atrocity, and she told me proudly that “they are just imitating us, the Mossi, because they recognize us as a superior tribe and want to be more like us.” She spoke about the subject with enormous pride and…the snobbery of social superiority..

      While there’s no question in my mind that this originated with men who didn’t want women to be “oversexed”, it is the women of every tribe and religion who carry out and insist on the tradition with pride. The history and practice is motivated by many and complex beliefs, though, and no solution could possibly address all the African groups in whom the practice is entrenched.

      The UN, of course, has been aware of fgm for decades and decades and continues to address it in the most smarmy, non-judgmental terms that ultimately have no effect in bringing about an end to it..

      • St. Michael Defend Us says

        Apr 18, 2015 at 9:16 am

        I once read an article concerning foot binding in China. Again, it was asserted that it was the WOMEN who did this to their daughters. Once a practice like this becomes entrenched, and women basically have no future other than marriage, it becomes a vicious cycle.

        • Mirren10 says

          Apr 18, 2015 at 3:18 pm

          ” Once a practice like this becomes entrenched, and women basically have no future other than marriage, it becomes a vicious cycle.”

          **Exactly**. Although the religious element is *very* important.

          Regarding footbinding, even the presence of the Manchu Empress (with normal feet) on the throne wasn’t sufficient to end the practice; it took Chinese intellectuals who travelled to Europe and the US, and brought back sane positions, and emphasised that *they* found it ugly, which finally ended it. It then became a matter of being ‘unfashionable’. and ‘unwestern’, and unsophisticated.

          The difference is, of course, that footbinding wasn’t rooted in **religion**, as the vile practice of fgm is. Many women who might be swayed by it becoming *unfashionable*, will remain obdurate whilst sanction to it is given in the koran, hadith, sira, along with the implication this is what ‘allah’ wants, and the vile pontifications of imams, mullahs etc.

          It will always remain an unfathomable mystery to me, that people who believe in a ‘god’ who created them, and their bodies, and supposedly did this ‘perfectly’, will nevertheless believe that this same apparently perfect god, decided that certain bits of his creation were an abomination, and needed to be cut off.

        • quotha raven says

          Apr 18, 2015 at 4:45 pm

          I hope the Islamists don’t discover the “G-spot”!!! qi

      • voegelinian says

        Apr 18, 2015 at 5:49 pm

        By the way, one little historical factor seems to go unnoticed by all concerned when discussing FGM in Africa, and the dutiful notation that “many non-Muslims in Africa also practice FGM”.

        And that little historical factor is the massive invasion, disruption, conquest and occupation of a good half of Afrrica by Muslims, spanning centuries beginning in the 7th. There was a black African slave revolt in Iraq in the 9th century, for God’s sake! Islam devastated, RUINED Africa. To think that none of the pathologies we may see among non-Muslims in black Africa have nothing to do with the baneful influence of Islamic culture over the centuries, would be highly unreasonable. Wherever Muslims have gone in history, they have left their wretched influence in myriad ways — not only on Muslim converts, not only on dhimmis, but also on the various peoples they have attacked and terrorized while trying, but for various reasons against their will failing, to conquer them.

        • quotha raven says

          Apr 18, 2015 at 6:42 pm

          Voegelinian – Heaven forbid that anyone sees me as an apologist for Islam! My comment wasn’t intended to suggest that because the practice is widespread – globally, actually, amongst third-worlders – it is any less Islamic nor any less heinous.

          While I didn’t know this:

          “…massive invasion, disruption, conquest and occupation of a good half of Africa by Muslims, spanning centuries beginning in the 7th. There was a black African slave revolt in Iraq in the 9th century, for God’s sake! Islam devastated, RUINED Africa”, I’m happy, no, eager to be educated and have no reason to question the wisdom of you, Voeg. Thank you for the brief history lesson, which I may read up on.

          Meanwhile, keep up the good work! Cheers! quotha r

        • voegelinian says

          Apr 19, 2015 at 12:16 am

          double negative:

          “To think that none of the pathologies we may see among non-Muslims in black Africa have nothing to do with the baneful influence of Islamic culture …”

          should be:

          “To think that none of the pathologies we may see among non-Muslims in black Africa have anything to do with the baneful influence of Islamic culture …”

        • voegelinian says

          Apr 19, 2015 at 12:18 am

          Sure quotha, I realize you’re no apologist. I just wanted to point out that non-Muslim Africans bear the scars of historical trauma and terror from Muslims over the centuries (only mitigated by Western Colonialism)…

        • quotha raven says

          Apr 19, 2015 at 1:02 am

          Voeg – You are absolutely correct “non-Muslim Africans bear the scars of historical trauma and terror from Muslims over the centuries (only mitigated by Western Colonialism)…”

          Now I’d like to correct something I said about fgm which upon reflection is inaccurate:

          “…the practice is widespread – globally, actually, amongst third-worlders – it is any less Islamic nor any less heinous.”

          should be:

          …the practice is widespread – globally, actually, it is any less Islamic nor any less heinous.

          Fact is,this custom is followed, sotto voce, in Muslim communities in the USA. Not just “third world countries”, although we in post-Constitutional USA, for example, are headed at breakneck speed towards becoming a third world nation.Or a non-nation, as the New World Order would have it. Just like Europe, especially the UK and France…And Sweden and Nederlands and Belgium and Canada and Australia…etc, etc, etc.We all import enough third-worlders to tip the balance. The so-called free world is being sold out by its governments. Cheers! quotha

        • particolor says

          Apr 19, 2015 at 2:38 am

          But the Good part is The Guvmint Dip Sticks will be First on their Tree Felling List when their Mental Illness takes full Effect !! They will need the rest of the population Infidels for Slaves and Work and to pay Jizra !!
          Because they wouldn’t have a Flamin Clue how to make anything ?? DUH !! 🙁

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 18, 2015 at 9:42 pm

      Here’s another load of rot from Sabri S.:

      Highly doubtful….f g m is not a part of islam, and has
      No mention in the koran…a vicious barbaric practice pushed
      By outdated customs of backward societies should not be
      Linked to any Abraham I c faith…
      ……………………………….

      What crap. The link to Islam is regularly made *by Muslim clerics*.

      Islam Q & A—the most popular Islamic site in English—quotes:

      “For us in the Muslim world female circumcision is, above all else, obedience to Islam, which means acting in accordance with the fitrah and following the Sunnah which encourages it.”

      http://islamqa.info/en/45528

      It cites as foremost among FGM’s “benefits” that “it takes away excessive libido from women”

      And here is In the Fatwa from Shaykh ‘Atiyah Saqar—the former heard of the Fatwa Committee in al-Azhar. the foremost center of Sunni learning:

      “The calls which urge the banning of female circumcision are call that go against Islam, because there is no clear text in the Qur’aan or Sunnah and there is no opinion of the fuqaha’ that says that female circumcision is haraam. Female circumcision is either obligatory or recommended. Even though there is a fiqhi principle which says that the decree of a ruler may put an end to a dispute regarding controversial matters, the decree of the ruler in this case cannot be but either of two things: that it is either obligatory or recommended, and it is not correct to issue a decree banning it…”

      There are many, many more examples.

      So Sabri S.’s claim that FGM has nothing to do with Islam is nothing but Taqiyya.

  5. deja vu says

    Apr 17, 2015 at 10:08 pm

    Reza Aslan needs to check his facts. In Eritrea the one-party dictatorship of Isias Afewerki has clamped down hard on Protestant Christians with thousands incarcerated in prisons around the country, and denied access to family or lawyers. One family I’m aware of has not seen or heard news of their loved one for 14 years and does not even know if he is still alive, another no news for 9 years. Only ‘authorised’ churches are permitted under tight controls – ie Catholic and Orthodox. Sunni Islam predominates.

    This is the country in which Christians are locked into shipping containers, 15-20 per container with very little air and a bucket, and left out in the heat of the day and the bitter cold of the night. For those who are too stubborn to convert to Islam, and haven’t yielded to severe beatings, there are deep pits into which they are thrown and the lid secured until they change their minds. Many die of starvation, dehydration, disease and torture.

    On the 2015 World Watch List Eritrea ranks 9th (extreme) out of 50 countries for the severity of Christian persecution. Ethiopia ranks at 22 (severe). Eritrea was up 3 points from its ranking last year. Again, quoting Open Doors: ‘The primary culprit in Africa and worldwide is Islamic extremism, which was the main persecution engine in 40 of the 50 countries on the 2015 watch list, including 18 of the top 20 countries (only 6 of which are in the Middle East).’

    Tell *that* to Reza Aslan. Eritrea and Ethiopia are Christian countries?? Don’t believe a word of slick, lying Muslim apologists like him.

    https://www.opendoorsusa.org/christian-persecution/world-watch-list/

  6. lairdKintyre says

    Apr 18, 2015 at 2:24 am

    Reza always hopes his audiences arent as informed as he is.

  7. marty says

    Apr 18, 2015 at 7:28 am

    Never mind Indonesia.
    In the UK, thousands of girls are genitally mutilated annually.
    So far just ONE PROSECTION.
    It,rightly,failed and should not have been brought.
    No one expects much from Indonesia, but the UK is being colonised by an inferior and vile “civilisation”,
    and it is above the law.

    • Marty says

      Apr 18, 2015 at 7:29 am

      Typo,
      PROSECUTION.

    • Gufo says

      Apr 18, 2015 at 9:42 am

      Of course, UK was sold to muslims, everything they do is ok, all they have to do is screaming allahuakbar and islamophobia and here comes the welfare, here come the double standards, here comes the victim card being played recklessly, here come the grooming gangs _ muslims only _ here comes the end of civilization under the vile pretext of “cultural enrichment”.

  8. David Ball says

    Apr 18, 2015 at 10:56 am

    If man/woman was a creation of Allah and he saw fit to provide man with a foreskin and woman with a clitoris does it make sense that they should be whacked off by mere man?

  9. abad says

    Apr 18, 2015 at 1:47 pm

    FGM is a barbaric and UNNECESSARY practice only done by an anti-female religion like Islam

    • particolor says

      Apr 18, 2015 at 10:30 pm

      Mutilated and Buried under a Burqua !! Cant wait till that takes hold 🙁
      What other Goody’s have they got to offer the FREE World ?

  10. abad says

    Apr 18, 2015 at 1:52 pm

    BTW, what does Islam prescribe for men to keep them from being oversexed? Circumcision clearly does not help. Anyone know?

    • Mirren10 says

      Apr 18, 2015 at 3:35 pm

      ”BTW, what does Islam prescribe for men to keep them from being oversexed?”

      Well, historically, in nearly every culture, men have called the shots, and those shots have included male control of female sexuality, and unbridled freedom for their own. islam, in this respect, is merely an exaggerated case of male terror of female sexuality.

      Therefore, there is no prescription for preventing male ‘oversexuality’.

    • quotha raven says

      Apr 18, 2015 at 4:27 pm

      Abad – “BTW, what does Islam prescribe for men to keep them from being oversexed?”

      Well, I can think of one or two simple surgical procedures delicacy prevents me from describing here…qr

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 18, 2015 at 10:12 pm

      The only thing Islam does to keep men from being oversexed is demand that women wear Burkas and not leave the house without their owners.

      But Muslim men are, of course, free to rape any available women, either Infidels or “insufficiently Islamic” Muslimahs. They also may have up to four wives, any of which they may summarily divorce, as well as all the “possessions of the right hand”—sex slaves—as they can get their hands on.

      And the Islamic “paradise’ is a floating whorehouse in the sky, with 72 regenerating virgin Houris for each “Martyr”, as well as all the “pearly boys” they might desire.

      • particolor says

        Apr 18, 2015 at 10:24 pm

        Removal of the Imams Voice Box might help ?

  11. voegelinian says

    Apr 18, 2015 at 5:58 pm

    The report noted that,

    The authorities banned the practice in 2006, but backpedaled in 2010 following pressure from some of the country’s powerful religious organizations.

    The Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI), an influential quasi-government body of Muslim scholars, was one of them.

    “The MUI met with the health ministry, and explained that banning female circumcision was against human rights, and sharia law,”

    The Counter-Jihad really needs to investigate more thoroughly these Ulema Council. Every one of the 56 Muslim-majority nations has an Ulema Council; and in fact, probably every nation in the Dar-al-Harb has an Ulema Council as well (anticipating the day when, piece by piece, it will pass over into the Dar-al-Islam).

    The Ulema bodies are effectively the “Pope” of Islam which all our learned analysts tell us does not exist, because, you see, Islam is so “diverse” we can’t generalize about it (except when we want to praise it in glowing terms, of course). While various Ulema bodies may naturally disagree with each other on various points of sharia, it is the underlying agreements that would be of note for our purposes. (And even in the disagreements, we can find useful material — such as when two Ulema bodies dispute NOT that the Kuffar should be fought and killed, but only HOW and in WHAT CIRCUMSTANCE… that sort of thing.)

    • quotha raven says

      Apr 18, 2015 at 7:18 pm

      Voeg – More words of wisdom from you, whom I’ve come to regard through the years I’ve been following JW as one of the most highlyl-educated, erudite and smartest commenters here.

      Haven’t yet worked out the method/details, but in principle, I even agree with you at your most controversial: I’d like nothing better than to see every last one of them deported from post-Constitutional USA. I’m afraid it’s too late for that, though; with stealth jihad steadily and successfully gaining access for takiyya-spewing Islamists to the highest echelons (one might even include the presidency) of our government.

      Muslims are already strategically.placed withing the justice system, such as it is, since it has been completely politicized (yes, during my lifetime), and Islamist bureaucrats occupy positions of shocking power throughout government at the Federal, State and Local levels, Small winks and nods to sharia law are being directed to Islam by judges all over the country, and I’m sure I have no idea of the magnitude of that particular situation; the MSM has its agenda and simply ignores creeping sharia in Ohio, NJ, Tennessee, Michigan, of course, and countless other states. It is hard to imagine how we can eradicate this intrenched cancer in our midst.

      Which cancer I once characterized here as “The Sorcerer”s Apprentice” – the scary escalation of numbers in that story – every time you get rid on one, two more appear, and so on and so on…

      For everyone reading JW, I’d recommend your taking a gander at the blog The Hesperado where, if you’re not familiar with the Austrian social philosopher Voegelin, you’ll get an introduction that may inform your thinking.

      Cheers, all! qr

      .

      Cheers! quotha r

      • voegelinian says

        Apr 19, 2015 at 1:01 am

        Thanks quotha, I appreciate your high praise and recommendations. On the deportation issue, the question of whether it’s “too late” can’t really be ascertained definitively either way. One either errs on the side of pessimistic dismay, or on the side of (a hopefully) realistic hope. A case could be made either way. I maintain that a person leaning to the former may not have thought deeply enough about how strong and healthy the West is. And I’m also convinced that the Muslim infiltration we see, while alarmingly widespread, is really superficial — for a person to truly infiltrate a civilization as sophisticated as ours, he would need a different mindset than the Muslim is capable of. (I’m not saying the West is perfect, I’m only talking about trends and tendencies). I also think the PC MC rot of the West is also relatively superficial, and does not represent the healthy body politic underneath, which is only sleeping, not dead and gone. I thus think that the West is a latent, or sleeping lion and that if provoked drastically enough, will eventually rouse. The issue is not Whether it will rouse; but only When. Where I am a pessimist is in my sober expectation that this “When” will come too late to save a few million of the lives of our men, women and children — but this still is a far cry from Muslims actually conquering us.

        As for my blog Hesperado, I do have a few essays there on Eric Voegelin — specifically, on a few scholars among the “Voegelinian Society” who keep the flame of his philosophy alive. But sadly I must add that, even though they all see themselves as “conservative” philosophers, they pretty much spout the same inane idiocy of the Mainstream when it comes to Islam.

    • gravenimage says

      Apr 18, 2015 at 10:26 pm

      Grotesque—but hardly surprising—that the Ulema Council would say that banning FGM is “against human rights”, Voeg. Pious Muslims are fine with appropriating our civilized concepts for their own perverse uses.

      And along with the Ulema Councils, there are the schools of Islamic jurisprudence.

      On the subject of FGM:

      The Shafi’i school of Islamic jurisprudence considers female circumcision to be wajib (obligatory).

      The Hanbali school of Islamic jurisprudence considers female circumcision to be makrumah (honorable) and strongly encouraged.

      The Maliki school of Islamic jurisprudence considers female circumcision to be sunnah (preferred).

      The Hanafi school of Islamic jurisprudence considers female circumcision to be sunnah (preferred).

      • particolor says

        Apr 18, 2015 at 10:46 pm

        The Australian School of Infidels considers Islam Fuckoffski (Expelled) 🙁

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