“A former chief prosecutor has warned they are not telling police of their concerns because they do not want to see students face criminal charges.” No one wants to see any harm come to these precious snowflakes, now, do they?
Britannic Death Watch Update: “Headteachers say they fear pupils will use Easter holidays to flee UK and join Isis in Syria,” by Lizzie Dearden, the Independent, April 1, 2015:
Two headteachers have admitted they fear pupils will not return from the Easter holidays because they are planning to join Isis in Syria.
A former chief prosecutor has warned they are not telling police of their concerns because they do not want to see students face criminal charges.
The school leaders confessed to Nazir Afzal that they were “scared” some teenagers will use the break to attempt to join the so-called Islamic State, he told The Times.
One principal told him he has been approached by parents fearing their children would flee almost every day, Mr Afzal said, adding: “Both said they were scared of the Easter break and would be very relieved if all their pupils came back after the holidays.”
He told the newspaper the teachers were from different parts of London and knew of more than a dozen boys and girls whose parents believed they had been “groomed and seduced” by Isis’ violent ideology.
Mr Afzal stepped down this week as chief prosecutor for the north west of England after leading high profile cases against former BBC presenter Stuart Hall and weatherman Fred Talbot.
He said parents’ fears that their children will be prosecuted is preventing them from informing authorities about possible radicalisation and teachers would prefer a “preventative”, rather than criminal, approach.
Mr Afzal added: “(The headteachers) didn’t know what to do. They’re told to direct parents to the police, but the parents don’t want the police to be told and the heads don’t want to criminalise their pupils…It can’t just be a police responsibility because sadly many people in our communities don’t trust the police.”
His warning came after three schoolgirls from the Bethnal Green Academy in east London fled to join Isis in Syria, joining another 15-year-old girl who was already there.
They disappeared during the half-term holiday in February, possibly after being radicalised online and instructed by Isis recruiters on how to evade security.
Police had written letters to the girls’ parents after their friend joined the group, asking permission to take formal statements. But they were handed to the students themselves rather than being delivered to their homes and were found unopened in school textbooks after they left.
A High Court judge has subsequently confiscated the passports of four other pupils at the school after concerns were raised by the local council. Women pose with a BMW M5 car – ‘more rap video than Isis propaganda’ Women pose with a BMW M5 car in Isis propaganda showing the ‘glamour’ of life under the caliphate
David Cameron confirmed yesterday that the three schoolgirls could face criminal charges if they return to the UK.
“Whoever has gone out to join a terrorist organisation is breaking the law and has to face the consequences of breaking the law,” the Prime Minister said.
Hundreds of British men and women are believed to have joined Isis and other terrorist groups in Syria and Iraq over the last two years….
Aardvark says
The father of one of the three Bethnal Green muslimas blamed the police for allowing the girls to travel to the Islamic State, and her teachers for not noticing that she was being ‘radicalised’.
. But now video has surfaced showing him at a mohammedan march organised by Anjem Choudary in 2012, along with one of the murders of Lee Rigby. He is seen shouting ‘allahu akbar’, and ‘burn USA’. He helped in burning a USA flag in front the US Embassy in London. See here: http://alturl.com/tiwjh
Ephesian says
Yes,and he was seen on tv talking to the reporters whilst holding a teddy bear,and looking all doe eyed to get people’s sympathy.One minute muslims are saying they are being unfairly singled out and being monitored,the next we see this,and accusing the police,teachers,everybody but themselves, for not spotting their mini-jihadists at the airport.Which is it,you can’t have it both ways! Also the police apologised to the family….sheesh! Don’t be afraid they might go to Syria,let them go,in fact encourage them and DON’T LET THEM BACK IN.Enough is enough of this appeasement,who cares if they all go?
Ephesian says
Jayell….how does this man get to be CPS “big chief”? Easy,when you have the likes of Dhimmi Dave saying we have too many white faces in government and in other places of power…that’s what he said.Google who is the head of Barnados children’s home…..it’s happening because our leaders are frightened of their own shadows and even more so of the barbarians they have invited in with open arms to infiltrate and destroy our culture and our freedoms.It’s because they are so afraid of being seen to promote British people and values that it’s gone the other way now,where a person will be looked over for a position in favour of a muslim in case they are accused of “racism”.Well,if I went to Italy I’d expect to see,er,Italians,and if I went to Germany Germans,and so on.I would expect them to get a job over me in their respective countries,there is nothing racist about that.Bloody sick of our rolling over like a whupped puppy.
jayell says
Ephesian, you are SO right! I haven’t got round to googling Barnardo’s yet, but I’ll take my blood-pressure medication first before I do. It’s like a lot of things these days; the BBC over-represents non-British presenters/news readers, the Head of Religious Broadcasting is an Asian Sikh (in a nominally Christian country WHY???), we see non-British spokespersons and chairpersons etc. in the NHS and medical professions, we have people like Vaz throwing his considerable weight around in Westminster ‘in the name of the British people’., etc. I can’t help what might have happened if theThird Reich had invaded in 1940. Personnel or nominees from a Berlin government, or ‘approved UK collaborators’, being parachuted or promoted into influential positions in government, the establishment or the media (e.g., German or ‘approved’ presenters and controllers on the TV), all over and above the ‘locals’, and with a UK division of the Gestapo or some other Stasi-type organisation sitting on any manifestation of ‘nationalist’ or quasi-nationalist dissent through misapplications or ‘bending’ of the law, show trials and witch-hunts of media figures. Now this couldn’t possibly happen in the UK, could it???
Ephesian says
Jayell….yes,I make sure I’ve taken my BP drugs before going onto this site! What I notice too,is that even on the tv,a presenter will be interviewing say,an expert on bees,for example,and he/she will be a muslim,and I think,”have we NOBODY British that could’ve been interviewed?”.It’s as if we are being played down all the time in favour of muslims,in everything.We have local councillors raising the pakistani flag over the Town Hall and walking through my town is like visiting the grand bazaar in Cairo….totally had it up to here.
Mirren10 says
” … even on the tv,a presenter will be interviewing say,an expert on bees,for example,and he/she will be a muslim,and I think,”have we NOBODY British that could’ve been interviewed?”.
Very true, Ephesian.
I noticed this when watching the interment of Richard III’s body in Leicester; the BBC interviewed, or asked for comments, from, mohammedans, Sikhs (not that I have any problem with Sikhs per se, just that this was about an **English** king being laid to rest in an **English** cathedral town) and various blacks, rather than *any* indigenous British people.
In fact, I didn’t see **one** White British person being asked for a comment. This is taking PC/MC claptrap to insulting levels.
voegelinian says
Hence the problem of Taqiyya, which so many in the Counter-Jihad seem to ignore whenever they are mounting their bulwarks of defensiveness against my Deportation Meme.
ECAW says
Voegelinian – Not so much a meme as an idee fixe I think.
There are the practical details such as the current disparity in popular sentiment between PC/MC and the counter-jihad movement, the dictatorial powers needed to effect such a programme, the question of where to, and the witch-pricking approach of establishing who and who isn’t a Muslim (just as subject to deception as any other filtering system) as opposed to establishing what actions are allowable or not.
Admittedly, in time it may be that enough atrocities will wake us up to the reality that we are at war whether we like it or not and normally accepted liberties will be curtailed as in any time of war.
For the time being though shouldn’t the immediate concern be lobbying politically to stop any more Muslim immigration and to deport illegal immigrants? I see two political parties willing to say this, Geert Wilders’ Party for freedom in Holland and Liberty GB in Britain.
As an aside, I might ask those Americans here who think Europe is already finished where is the US equivalent of these?
ECAW says
“who is and who isn’t a Muslim” of course.
voegelinian says
One man’s meme is another’s idée fixe (or “hobbyhorse”). The problem with this subjective, relative ambiguity — in the context of an ongoing sociopolitical conversation (augmented by the urgency of a protracted emergency involving a clear and present danger rendered strangely unclear and secondary by a worldview shared, to one degree or another, by many who otherwise have woken up to the exigency of this conversation) — is that the side that is calmer and more relaxed about the urgency enjoys the ability to accuse the other side (or imply the accusation) of being overwrought and “obsessed” (or worse, as Phillip Jihadski goes further to accuse me, as he has in the past, of “Nazi” tendencies), since the very nature of a concern about an emergency tends to bring with it rhetoric which ostensibly seems excessive. I.e., it’s not only very difficult to remain calm when alerting someone that their (and our) house is on fire; there are times when such a calm deportment & demeanor is actually counter-productive (even disastrously so). The conversation then devolves into a parsing of different types of “emergency”…
ECAW says
That’s a 125 word sentence Voegelinian – superb!
voegelinian says
My Deportation Meme invariably elicits one or more of the same constellation of responses. My favorite (I say, restraining my bitter fury) is the rhetorical question posed with, one can see vividly in one’s mind’s eye, a large grade-school tongue hanging out of the mouth of the questioner, “Where are you going to deport them to…?” (which should translate as “Hi! I don’t have an ounce of imagination in my head!”).
One (for now) which I’ll note in ECAW’s response:
There are the practical details such as…the dictatorial powers needed to effect such a programme…”
If you think that would necessarily be “dictatorial” then you must think the entire free West became “dictatorial” to band together to put down the metastatic & megalomaniacal cancer of Hitler and his Axis powers. In this precise context, I have little truck with such a disaffected, alienated view verging with a labile promiscuity over the borders into Conspiracy-Land.
ECAW says
“one can see vividly in one’s mind’s eye, a large grade-school tongue hanging out of the mouth of the questioner”
Up until now Voegelinian I’ve taken your prolixity and pomposity in good humour but you’ve pissed me off now. You are what we call in England an arrogant twat. I notice you didn’t answer any of my objections and won’t be bothering with you in future.
Demsci says
//”it’s not only very difficult to remain calm when alerting someone that their (and our) house is on fire;”//
Voegelinian, you do perceive “some house is on fire” and have good reasons for it.
But consider WHOSE house this is! It is also the house of those that do not appreciate your warnings!
You see, you want to save whole countries, all humans in them, and give up NOTHING.
That’s where we differ; I. We should not try to save those who do not want to be saved, until they do. And that is AFTER they have been conquered or shocked enough.
II. You want to change almost unchangeable people which is outside of your control. And this means that THESE unchangeables partly CONTROL you by their choices. No wonder it is hard for you to remain calm.
III. Even with deportation we still would have the problem of catastrophic war with a nuclear Iran, a near-certainty now.
What IF Islam&Muslims conquer some territory here and there? The remaining Democracies will finally stiffen in resistance and the Muslims will not have reached their end-goal by a long shot.
And what IF Muslims subdue and kill and shock many of those PCMC’s?
Did you ever make a case that you appreciate PCMC’s even slightly more than you do the Muslims? For by judging your critical remarks about PCMC’s it seems as there is no love lost for them in you! So why do want to save them at all costs?
Example; You literally joked: Who ISN’T better than Daniel Pipes? This literally means EVERYBODY is better than he is. What contempt! for a man who is so much better than Muslims and PCMC’s in multiple ways; like intentions for mankind and knowledge of Islam! But you joke that he is the WORST! If so, why bother to try to save the likes of him (like me)???
voegelinian says
134 words.
gravenimage says
Yes—the true nature of this “concerned parent” was very telling.
And note that the Muslim parents in the story above don’t want the police notified, either—they just want the Infidel teachers to somehow talk them out of going.
Katnis says
It’s hard not to feel badly for the parents and the teachers.
That said, the teachers need to put their feelings aside and abide by the law. Further, I would like to see them take an active part in protecting their country. Authorities can’t do it all alone. After all, this is war.
gravenimage says
Katnis, in many cases those parents are Muslims who have been teaching their children violent Jihad from the cradle. If they don’t want their children running off to join ISIS at 15, it is just a quibble.
Look at the link above—a Muslim parent who blamed the police for not stopping his kid from running off to join the Jihad, and it turns out that he has appeared at pro-Jihad rallies.
voegelinian says
Well, you need to stop yielding to your PC MC instincts and toughen up.
Joe says
That’s the problem – start feeling sorry for them and the battle’s lost. It’s better to nip it in the bud before it gets even worse. We ought to know by now that no action by them is too despicable if it fools kuffar. Teachers who suspect pupils are being.brainwashed, and don’t report it should be arrested for complicity. Won’t happen, though – unless
Peggy says
At the end of the day, it’s up to parents to parent not teachers of police.
It’s very hard to convert someone to such a horrible ideology if they have a decent and loving family at home. Kids learn from home first.
They can’t blame the police for not stopping them from going when they failed as parents (or did they)? I would say that in most cases these little terrorists have been paying attention at home.
For the converts, well, their parents have failed them too. How do you not know who your child hangs around with? How do you not notice changes in your child?
voegelinian says
” if they have a decent and loving family at home. Kids learn from home first.”
That’s impossible in a Muslim family. Why are you talking about Muslim families as though normality applies to them?
jayell says
I believe that this Mr. Afzal may have been involved with more than just two high profile cases (witch hunts?) against (white male) celebrities. And of course the muslim grooming gangs were being brought to court at around the same time on Mr Afzal’s watch and in Mr. Afzal’s area. Anyone care to guess Mr Afzal’s religion? Not that I would remotely suggest any connection! And by the way, if any of your readers want to know about the Great British Public’s concern for these ‘poor misguided young muslim victims of islamist propaganda’, try googling this story on the UK ‘Daily Mail online’ and reader the comments. That will tell you everything.
ECAW says
This is Afzal’s explanation for the grooming gang scandals, courtesy of the Guardian:
“Where there is involvement of Asian men or men of Pakistani origin, he points to a practical, rather than cultural explanation – the fact that in the areas where grooming scandals have been uncovered, those controlling the night-time economy, people working through the night in takeaways and driving minicabs, are predominantly Asian men.”
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/03/nazir-afzal-there-is-no-religious-basis-for-the-abuse-in-rotherham
jayell says
“Where there is involvement of Asian men or men of Pakistani origin, he points to a practical, rather than cultural explanation”…..Yeah, right! We had it all the time before the Pakistanis arrived, didn’t we? Now what was the ‘practical explanation’ for all the (alleged) misdeeds of those white celebrities that he helped to persecu….(whoops, what’s wrong with the spellcheck here?) prosecute?
ECAW says
I wasn’t defending him 🙂 but pointing out the ludicrousness of his argument. Someone at the Guardian should have said “But why don’t we see these horrors in areas where indigenous men run the night-time economy?” As if.
jayell says
Hello ECAW. I was not suggesting for one moment that you were defending Afzal. I was also pointing out the ludicrousness of his argument. However, this all begs the question – how exactly does someone like Afzal get to be the CPS ‘Big Chief’ for a whole region of the UK when he apparently sees fit to trot out this kind of transparently pathetic excuse for a defence of the indefensible? Is he so arrogant as to be blind to his own idiocy, or does he think that WE are all idiots?
voegelinian says
“Is he so arrogant as to be blind to his own idiocy, or does he think that WE are all idiots?”
The latter, of course.
gravenimage says
ECAW wrote, quoting Afzal:
“Where there is involvement of Asian men or men of Pakistani origin, he points to a practical, rather than cultural explanation – the fact that in the areas where grooming scandals have been uncovered, those controlling the night-time economy, people working through the night in takeaways and driving minicabs, are predominantly Asian men.”
…………………………
Thanks for posting this, ECAW. How grotesque this apologia is from someone who is supposed to be a prosecutor—as though people driving cabs or running takeout restaurants are *intrinsically* prone to running child sex grooming rings. What sickening calumny.
Just more whitewashing of Islam. *Ugh*. That Britain has a Muslim in such a high-ranking legal position is more madness.
Beagle says
Robert Reich has assured us that thousands of westerners joining IS in less than a year does not constitute a real problem
All is well!
dumbledoresarmy says
They’re not “westerners”. They are “western-country-resident” or “western-country-passport-holding Muslims”. And that applies whether they were born to Muslim colonists within the west, or whether they are native westerners, born to non-Muslim parents, who have – out of folly or wickedness – joined the Mohammedan Mob.
mortimer says
Muslim terrorists see themselves as members of a superior body, the Ummah, which cancels and abrogates any oaths to nation-state. They are conspirators.
Beagle says
westerner
noun
a native or inhabitant of the west, especially of western Europe or North America.
— —
“inhabitant”
You even admit this by using “native westerners”.
Check out the comments at al-Jazeera. Plenty of frightening European snowflakes spewing Salafist jihadi poison.
Blake says
so people from Iraq. morocco and Algeria are all western? hmm interesting
Aardvark says
I think DDA should have said ‘civilised Westerners’. That phrase clearly does not apply to mohammedans, where ever they were born or now happen to live.
Beagle says
Blake,
Those who live in the West are termed westerners. I don’t make up the rules. I merely follow them.
voegelinian says
This semantic dispute obfuscates the core issue: a Muslim by definition cannot be a real citizen of any non-Islamic polity — though he may resemble one superficially, and may pretend to be one, and may enjoy & exploit our disastrous decision to confer it formally and culturally upon him or her. Once the West realizes that all its Muslims are not only by definition incapable of being citizens, but also that they are at war against us and trying to kill us (and already have been killing us and that this mass-murderous military process is spiralling out of control), then it will have regained its senses and deport them.
mortimer says
Would the principals fail to report neo-Nazis? Would the principals fail to report students preparing to commit animal or human sacrifice? Would the principals fail to report students in a gang intimidating other teenagers? Would the principals fail to report students who were chanting demeaning words about women or other races in a bus? Why is it alright for Muslims to chant hateful slogans about kafirs and ‘crusaders’?
The principals would not protect ‘other’ mass killers, but they feel it’s alright to protect MUSLIM MASS KILLERS?
Telter says
This is why the West is losing to Islamists. Instead of letting these traitors go, they are forcing them to stay so that when they are no longer ‘kids’ they can plot the downfall of the kafir society they live in.
We have lawyers and doctors in the US of immigrant familiies who promote hate against the West, and whose sole explanation of Islamism is to blame Zionists. This is often done under the guise of civil rights and fighting ‘islamophobia’.
Take Loon Watch. They claim to fight hate, but one of their veteran members commenter DrM of drmaxtor.blogspot.com is notorious anti-semite. Evidence of Dr Maxtor excusing Jihadism and promoting anti-semitism, anti-western, anti-hinduism all the while blaming Zionism for all the ills in Islamic societies https://disqus.com/by/1DrM
His real name is Dr Rushdi Cader https://www.linkedin.com/pub/rushdi-cader/6a/a23/175 and typical of stealth jihadists, anti-semites and anti-West jihadists, he hides his real persona because he wouldn’t be able to teach law enforcement officers http://www.swattrauma.com/PRACTI-SEAL/About_Us.html If his bosses knew he was a hate preacher he would be fired.
These stealth tactics are used by American Muslims, both openly as in CAIR and secretly as in Loon Watch.
DrM is a notorius Islamist/activist he blogs anonymously at his own blog preaching nazi propaganda http://drmaxtor.blogspot.com/2006/10/ummah-community-clinic.html and since 2007 he has been a heavy contributor at Loon Watch. This suggests he is probably linked to Loon Watch if he is not the founder then he may be one of the writers.
Dr Rushdie Cader AKA Dr Maxtor AKA DrM is the founder of the Umma Clinic in California. http://www.ummaclinic.org which receives public funds. He is a UCLA graduate and he founded this Muslim clinic. He is a Muslim activist but is careful to hide his hatred of the West under his real identity preferring to spew his bile at Loon Watch and at drmaxtor.blogspot.com
voegelinian says
“…he hides his real persona because he wouldn’t be able to teach law enforcement officers http://www.swattrauma.com/PRACTI-SEAL/About_Us.html If his bosses knew he was a hate preacher he would be fired. ”
Not necessarily. Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s recent op-ed for the Wall Street Journal, for example, shows how the U.S. Dept. of Justice is giving thousands of dollars to a Muslim cleric who back in 2006 called for her death because she was “insulting” Islam. And that’s just one fact she uses to introduce her report of various other examples of our officials’ insane myopia to the problem:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/ayaan-hirsi-ali-americas-academies-for-jihad-1427843597
dumbledoresarmy says
I can think of another reason why a teacher might not tell the police.
A teacher who has sufficiently got the wind up about Islam – and there *will* be such teachers, persons possessed of a bit of commonsense – might not tell the police because **then the police will try to stop the dangerous mohammedan from leaving**.
An Islamosavvy infidel teacher might grit their teeth and make the decision to let the dangerous little mohammedan jihadis-in-training leave, reasoning that “with any luck, that’s one less to cause trouble *here*.” Let them go and duke it out with the Shiites and the Alawites in Syria or with the Shiites and the not-quite-so-zealous Sunnis (whether Kurd or Arab) in Iraq, and hopefully meet a sticky end and never come back at all.
A grim decision to make, but…what’s the alternative right now, given the utter wilful cluelessness of all western governments? At least if the aspiring jihadis leave, there’s a chance they mightn’t come back. Whereas, what happens if an aspiring jihadi is *prevented* from leaving? Odds are pretty good that, a few years down the track, something nasty will happen right here in the lands of the non-Muslims.
Don McKellar says
That’s what I’d do. What’s the alternative? Telling the authorities so they can slap the jihadis’ wrists and keep them around? AROUND YOU, that is. While they plot your death.
RonaldB says
Hello, dumblesdorearmy,
There are at least two points of disagreement I have with you:
“Let them go and duke it out with the Shiites and the Alawites in Syria or with the Shiites and the not-quite-so-zealous Sunnis (whether Kurd or Arab) in Iraq, and hopefully meet a sticky end and never come back at all.”
1) The other possibility is that they serve with ISIS a few years, and come back with military training, terrorist training, and a network of contacts forged in battle in Syria that can be relied on for support in terror actions;
2) In Syria and Iraq, they engage in murder, rape, destruction, torture and genocide, against both Christians and Muslims.
It’s tempting to let these people go, but part of being a civilized society is that we do not overlook murder and other crimes. On the other hand, just planning to travel to a contested area is a pretty shaky legal grounds for long incarceration, especially if they can’t be shown to have taken money or weapons.
My suggested solution is for Britain and other civilized countries to emphasize that serious crimes committed in other countries are still crimes, and subject to the governments involved. Thus, any citizens who join ISIS will be subjected to extradition by the Syrian government. It may make these people rethink their position if they realize they will face punishment, not in a cushy British jail, but by the very people they traveled to murder and destroy.
Thersites says
Ronald,
The flaw in your argument is that no western government, and certainly not the UK, would ever hand over a citizen to the government of Syria. The courts would not allow it because the citizen would have a well-founded fear of being subjected to torture and/or execution. Even if an ISIS executioner of Syrian or Iraqi nationality suddenly turned up at Heathrow and claimed asylum, the UK Government would have a hard job, requiring several years and innumerable court hearings, to deport him. They would not even deport an Italian Mafia boss back to Italy because the British judges thought that conditions in Italian jails were a bit harsh!
When the black flag is flying over Buckingham Palace and the last dhimmi judge is having his throat cut, his last words will be “Well, at least we never violated their human rights.”
Ephesian says
No,the last words will be”this has(gurgle,gurgle..)nothing whatsoever(gurgle,gurgle)to do with islam(gasp)
voegelinian says
” On the other hand, just planning to travel to a contested area is a pretty shaky legal grounds for long incarceration”
LOL — a “contested area”. The rot of PC MC inside the Counter-Jihad.
AJ Liberphile says
The encouragement will continue until Islam in its entirity is treated as the terrorist death cult that it is.
TH says
It would be nice if these teachers remembered what Shakespeare states in Hamlet: “We must be cruel only to be kind. Thus bad begins and worse remains behind”. How can these pupils be criminalised by anyone else when they have become criminals by their own free will, plus they are muslims and jihad is an essential part of Islam. How can they teach anything coherent when the lack basic logic.? Brits seem to give too much importance to a false notion of being “nice”. Being nice is not good enough for a teacher, who must put the good of the students before concerns like false compassion. Besides, they don’t ask themselves how their students god “radicalized”. What about the reading of the Koran, listening to inflamatory Imans teaching jihdad at the mosques? If Jihad is en essential part of Islam and the Iman is supposed to teach Islam, one would therefore assume that he might or should consider it his duty to teach is, as he would not be doing his job if he didn’t. So, should the Koran be declared a dangerous book which promotes terrorism. I am not suggesting that it be banned, but tha the truth be told. Now, is a religion which orders its followers to kill everyone else a legitimate religion. Haven’t European parliaments and coutrs investigated Scientology. Surely Islam is much more dangerous than Scientology, not that this is very palatable either, but Scientology doen’t oder its followers to kill everyone else in the name of some god.
Don McKellar says
Brings new meaning to the term Spring Break. I wonder, will there be kegger parties in the Islamic State? And wet T-shirt contests? There must be some attraction for them…
To be serious, as always, the correct solution is being avoided by the government. The obvious, easy, logical solution which costs virtually nothing and makes everybody happy. Let them go, take away their citizenship and passports, and never, ever allow them to return. Sort of like a permanent spring break to frolic in the Islamic wonderland.
thomas pellow says
Supplementary.
‘Breitbart’-
“LONDON SCHOOLS FEAR EASTER TERROR EXODUS AS
ISLAMIC STATE GROOMS STUDENTS ‘ON AN ALMOST DAILY BASIS’
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/04/01/london-schools-fear-easter-terror-exodus-as-islamic-state-grooms-students-on-an-almost-daily-basis/
thomas pellow says
“The Islamic State Caliphate is Pure Islam”
http://www.newenglishreview.org/Jerry_Gordon/The_Islamic_State_Caliphate_is_Pure_Islam/
michaelwarden says
http://gatesofvienna.net/2014/09/its-in-the-koran-2/
PRCS says
“they are muslims and jihad is an essential part of Islam”
Which has been drilled into their heads by their MUSLIM parents their entire lives.
The ‘radicalization’ didn’t begin online.
Time to start holding MUSLIM parents to account for their children’s indoctrination and brainwashing.
How much of Qur’an did good old mom and dad tell the little kiddies they could ignore?
Anything? Anything?
Ephesian says
Exactly.These “little darlings” weren’t radicalised by some naughty bad man who happened to get them on the way home from school…these are people who are brought up in hatred of anybody else who isn’t muslim.Their parents are raised the same way and instill it into their children,and as soon as they are able,off they go to the mosque and there they learn some more hatred.It’s not all that difficult to understand,but our leaders don’t want to point the finger,even if it means the police are forced into apologising,as long as the muslims don’t get accused.
PRCS says
Oh, dear heavens! They’re not Muslims, you know. They’re Asians!
Charli Main says
Yes, indeed—-its racist, bigoted and Islamophobic to keep blaming Muslims for the activities and behaviour of Asians. Its grossly unfair to keep branding Muslims as child raping paedophiles and terrorists when we all know its the ” Asians”
Ephesian says
Well,if it walks like a muslim,talks like a muslim,and behaves like a muslim,it’s a muslim! I know what you’re saying,though!
Demsci says
PRCS, I too believe the parents indoctrinated the children to a large extent. I believe that all or most Muslims want Islam to win, in the West and everywhere. All or most let the Quran trump the Constitution of Western countries if they contradict and all or most let loyalty for the Ummah trump loyalty for the Western country if they live in it.
There is so much proof for this that it amounts to well-found fear. And it should brand all Muslims as totally untrustworthy now. But what can we do?
Well, the Muslims should understand more and more that the window to conquer the whole West and then the whole World is closing, in the 21st century, they can’t be patient any more, what with approaching Artificial Intelligence, spy-fly-drones, all that new technology, in the hands of powerful companies like Google. Would you be confident for the future as a Muslim facing this prospect.
such a conquest-goal would be futile and very costly to Muslims, once Western masses in majority finally understand their hostile motive. And the West instead offers them coexistence with Islamic states, freedom of religion and equal rights as well as a good chance of prosperity or at least wellfare for Muslims inside the West.
So Muslims should give up their futile and costly drive to worldconquest and hostility to the West and split, in co-existing Muslims, with quality mark, and “old-style” confrontational Muslims. The Co-existing Muslims should testify and show that they prefer good Kuffars over bad Muslims. Just as we then prefer Good Muslms over bad Kuffars.
And the burden of proof and ever-mounting pressure should be on Muslims that they can at least interpret Quran-Sunnah thus that obeying God and Country can be combined.
With big pressure in future that every “ordinary” Muslim is just totally untrustworthy and shall not be allowed to immigrate into the West and perhaps not even be allowed to keep his/ her welfare and all rights, when already a citizen of the West.
So that all Muslims should, in future, be obliged to earn some kind of quality mark as “Democratic Muslims” or “Muslims in coexistence with Democracies” if they want to immigrate into Western countries and once in them keep all their rights and privileges intact.
Laurence says
What is preventing the police from also charging anyone found to be knowingly interfering or preventing and obstructing them (the police) from carrying out their duty. And it is up to the solicitors to decide whether to prosecute, and if found guilty of a charge the courts to decide any punishment or other consequences to be handed out not only to those who were knowingly obstructing justice but to any jihadi’s and wannabe jihadi’s as well. One example of other consequences possibly could/should be in-depth deprogramming sessions of persons, similar to that which is available to those who have belonged to various types of cults, especially death cults; and due to the immediately manifest and also possibly lingering damaging effects of such cultic beliefs and practices, a re-education of sorts is required.
A slap on the wrist, saying bad girl or bad boy, or saying your sorry and pinky swearing not to do it again is obviously not enough! (Duh!)
Frustrations abound. . . .
PRCS says
In truth, why are thess moms and dads so worried that the police will be involved with children who have not YET broken the law?
Surely, thinking about joining the jihad is not a crime; though the first stages of executing the plan (stealing family money, jewelry, passports, etc) are–if reported).
So what, really, are the parents worried about?
I suspect they are actually afraid that their offspring will spill the beans: that mom and dad have always, always insisted that compliance with Qur’an is mandatory, that Muslims are “the best of people, raised up for all mankind”, that the rest of us are “filthy unbelievers”, and that the shari’ah–barbarities and all–trumps manmade laws.
In short, they’re afraid that the public will learn the truth.
The Vilest of Creatures says
What’s the worry? The police won’t do anything, just as the sat back and did nothing with the rape grooming gangs.
After all, what’s a few people getting killed as long as nobody is accused of being a racist.
shabeer_hassan says
to ADMIN (JIHAD WATCH)
TEMPORARY BLOCKING SITE AVAILABILITY/BLOCKING MY ID FROM SITE / BLINDLY DELETING POST & CHALLENGE IS “” NOT PART OF RELIGIOUS/MORAL/TRUSTFUL CRITICISM “” ,ITS A COWARDNESS,LACK OF KNOWLEDGE,FEAR OF TRUTH ,PLZ DON’T DO THAT ,PLZ ENCOURAGE PROMOTE POSITIVE DEBATE/RESPONSE ALL THE MEMBERS TO MY POST ,DON’T DELETE BLINDLY MY POST ,FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS A HUMAN RIGHT.DON’T DENNY THE RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH…………
Child participation for jihad prohibited:
Muslim :: Book 19 : Hadith 4466
It has been reported on the authority of Abu Zubair who heard Jabir b. Abdullah say: I fought in the company of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) nineteen battles. Jabir said: I did not participate in the Battle of Badr and the Battle of Uhud. My father prevented me (from participating in these battles as my age was tender). After ‘Abdullah (my father) was killed on the Day of Ubud, I never lagged behind the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and joined every battle (he fought).
weak person participate jihad prohibited
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 52 :: Hadith 85
Narrated Sahl bin Sad As-Sa’idi:
I saw Marwan bin Al-Hakam sitting in the Mosque. So I came forward and sat by his side. He told us that Zaid bin Thabit had told him that Allah’s Apostle had dictated to him the Divine Verse:
“Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and lives.’ (4.95)
Zaid said, “Ibn-Maktum came to the Prophet while he was dictating to me that very Verse. On that Ibn Um Maktum said, “O Allah’s Apostle! If I had power, I would surely take part in Jihad.” He was a blind man. So Allah sent down revelation to His Apostle while his thigh was on mine and it became so heavy for me that I feared that my thigh would be broken. Then that state of the Prophet was over after Allah revealed “…except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame etc.) (4.95)
Killing children character of non Muslim:
6: 137. And so to many of the Mushrikûn their (Allah’s so-called) “partners” have made fair-seeming the killing of their children, in order to lead them to their own destruction and cause confusion in their religion. And if Allah had willed they would not have done so. So leave them alone with their fabrications.
140. Indeed lost are they who have killed their children, from folly, without knowledge, and have forbidden that which Allah has provided for them, inventing a lie against Allah. They have indeed gone astray and were not guided.
Dawud :: Book 14 : Hadith 2482
Killing own children prohibited:
17: 31. And kill not your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Surely, the killing of them is a great sin.
60: 12. O Prophet! When believing women come to you to give you the Bai’â (pledge), that they will not associate anything in worship with Allah, that they will not steal, that they will not commit illegal sexual intercourse, that they will not kill their children, that they will not utter slander, intentionally forging falsehood (i.e. by making illegal children belonging to their husbands), and that they will not disobey you in any Ma’rûf (Islamic Monotheism and all that which Islam ordains) then accept their Bai’â (pledge), and ask Allah to forgive them, Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
6: 140. Indeed lost are they who have killed their children, from folly, without knowledge, and have forbidden that which Allah has provided for them, inventing a lie against Allah. They have indeed gone astray and were not guided.
81: 8. And when the female (infant) buried alive (as the pagan Arabs used to do) shall be questioned.
9. For what sin she was killed?
60:12 O Prophet! When believing women come to you to give you the Bai’â (pledge), that they will not associate anything in worship with Allâh, that they will not steal, that they will not commit illegal sexual intercourse, that they will not kill their children, that they will not utter slander, intentionally forging falsehood (i.e. by making illegal children belonging to their husbands), and that they will not disobey you in any Ma’rûf (Islâmic Monotheism and all that which Islâm ordains) then accept their Bai’â (pledge), and ask Allâh to forgive them, Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
6: 151. Say (O Muhammad SAW): “Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited you from: Join not anything in worship with Him; be good and dutiful to your parents; kill not your children because of poverty – We provide sustenance for you and for them; come not near to Al-Fawâhish (shameful sins, illegal sexual intercourse, etc.) whether committed openly or secretly, and kill not anyone whom Allâh has forbidden, except for a just cause (according to Islâmic law). This He has commanded you that you may understand.
Nimrod says
Someone who’s 15 wouldn’t have been considered a child back then, and this is still a norm in many “third world” places. People in those places will just convince them that they’re adults, and will disregard everything you just posted as not applying on the basis that teenagers aren’t “children”.
So you’re conflating western/modern and islamic/traditional definitions of “child”.
gravenimage says
The meretricious shabeer_hassan wrote:
to ADMIN (JIHAD WATCH)
TEMPORARY BLOCKING SITE AVAILABILITY/BLOCKING MY ID FROM SITE / BLINDLY DELETING POST & CHALLENGE IS “” NOT PART OF RELIGIOUS/MORAL/TRUSTFUL CRITICISM “” ,ITS A COWARDNESS,LACK OF KNOWLEDGE,FEAR OF TRUTH ,PLZ DON’T DO THAT ,PLZ ENCOURAGE PROMOTE POSITIVE DEBATE/RESPONSE ALL THE MEMBERS TO MY POST ,DON’T DELETE BLINDLY MY POST ,FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS A HUMAN RIGHT.DON’T DENNY THE RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH…………
……………………………………………..
My God, what crap. The idea that this creep is having his human rights violated if Jihad Watch doesn’t serve as host to his Da’wa is utter bs.
In a free society, the *state* cannot shut down anyone’s freedom of speech—that does not mean that anyone is obliged to provide any individual with a forum. If they were, in fact, it would violate *their* freedom of expression.
The idea that Robert Spencer is bound to sponsor shabeer hassan’s vicious rants here is grotesque.
This Mohammedan either understands nothing about freedom of speech, or else hopes that we do not.
More:
Child participation for jihad prohibited:
Muslim :: Book 19 : Hadith 4466
It has been reported on the authority of Abu Zubair who heard Jabir b. Abdullah say: I fought in the company of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) nineteen battles. Jabir said: I did not participate in the Battle of Badr and the Battle of Uhud. My father prevented me (from participating in these battles as my age was tender). After ‘Abdullah (my father) was killed on the Day of Ubud, I never lagged behind the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and joined every battle (he fought).
……………………………………………..
This isn’t about Islam preventing a child from waging violent Jihad—it is about a father forbidding it. As soon as dear old dad was out of the picture, sonny boy was off to Jihad.
In any case, Islam considers children as young as nine to be “adults”—shabeer hassan has made this exact case, in saying that 9-year-old girls can be married off.
More:
weak person participate jihad prohibited
“Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and lives.’ (4.95)
Zaid said, “Ibn-Maktum came to the Prophet while he was dictating to me that very Verse. On that Ibn Um Maktum said, “O Allah’s Apostle! If I had power, I would surely take part in Jihad.” He was a blind man. So Allah sent down revelation to His Apostle while his thigh was on mine and it became so heavy for me that I feared that my thigh would be broken. Then that state of the Prophet was over after Allah revealed “…except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame etc.) (4.95)
……………………………………………..
Actually, this does not prevent weak people from waging violent Jihad—it just notes that they are not obligated to do so.
And the main point of the passage, in any case, is to reaffirm that for Muslims no action is equal to that of waging violent Jihad.
More:
…kill not anyone whom Allâh has forbidden, except for a just cause (according to Islâmic law).
……………………………………………..
As shabeer hassan indicates in his previous passage, Muslims butchering people in violent Jihad is perfectly Halal.
shabeer_hassan says
@gravenimage..
Islam gives the right of freedom of thought and expression to all citizens of the Islamic State on the condition that it should be used for the propagation of virtue and truth and not for spreading evil and wickedness. This Islamic concept of freedom of expression is much superior to the concept prevalent in the West.
but here site admin blindly deleting my post without any reason(no bad word,insulting,harassment) but they allowing ppl who says bad word against Islam,prophet,etc.i says “its not a moral/trustful criticism/ debate……its just some criminals spreading their vulgar characters/behavior here.
#it is about a father forbidding it………..plz read once again it says “my age was tender”
that is i says child participation prohibited ,
#nine to be “adults”………i ever says like that Islam say “l puberty is to be adult”
#Muslims butchering people in violent Jihad is perfectly Halal……….
torturing character of non Muslim they did
85:10. Verily, those who put into trial the believing men and believing women (by torturing them and burning them), and then do not turn in repentance, (to Allâh), will have the torment of Hell, and they will have the punishment of the burning Fire.
HIROSHIMA,WW2,HOLOCAUST,etc
Dawud :: Book 14 : Hadith 2661
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) used to exhort us to give alms (sadaqah) and forbid us to mutilate (a slain). I then came to Imran ibn Husayn and asked him. He said: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) used to exhort us to give alms (sadaqah) and forbid us to mutilate (a slain).
Dawud :: Book 41 : Hadith 4939
Narrated Umar ibn al-Khattab:
Masruq said: I met Umar ibn al-Khattab (Allah be pleased with him) who said: Who are you? I replied: Masruq ibn al-Ajda’. Umar then said: I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say: al-Ajda’ (mutilated) is a devil
Dawud :: Book 14 : Hadith 2608
Narrated Anas ibn Malik:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Go in Allah’s name, trusting in Allah, and adhering to the religion of Allah’s Apostle. Do not kill a decrepit old man, o a young infant, or a child, or a woman;
Malik :: Book 21 : Hadith 21.3.10
Do not kill women or children or an aged, weak person, Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them.
i think that enough for u
jayell says
Hello Mr. Hassan, and how very, VERY NICE it is of you to share your intellectual profundities on this site with us ignorant and unworthy kuffar.
I am sure that we have much to learn from your indubitably glittering wisdom, however there are certain details that remain somewhat confusing to our clearly inferior sensibilities. May I please, if you would allow, quote your esteemed words?….”Islam gives the right of freedom of thought and expression to all citizens of the Islamic State on the condition that it should be used for the propagation of virtue and truth and not for spreading evil and wickedness.”….Might I be so bold as to humbly suggest that since the Islamic State apparently imposes a condition on ‘free expression’ at the outset, then it cannot be, for that reason alone, ‘free’? And then I feel I must also suggest the concepts of ‘virtue’, ‘truth’, ‘evil’ and ‘wickedness’ could be said to be relative to the philosophical or religious contexts in which they are used, and therefore their definitions will vary accordingly? Thus, what is ‘virtuous’ on the one hand, or ‘evil’ on the other, in an islamic context, might not be deemed so in a non-Islamic context? And therefore these concepts cannot be pronounced as ‘global absolutes’ from the perspective of any one ideology, philosophy or religion? Do you see my point? Of course you do!!
May I please quote you again?…”This Islamic concept of freedom of expression is much superior to the concept prevalent in the West.”…But, of course, as I have already said, such a sweeping value-judgement can scarcely be intellectually justified since (a) as you yourself have stated, the Islamic concept of ‘freedom of expression’ is effectively subject to the censorship of Islamic values and (b) these Islamic values, like any set of prescribed concepts, cannot be taken to be globally valid. One might also add that if one wished to quantify the comparative value of differing sets of guiding concepts, one could look at the relative achievements of the different concept systems in terms of, say, educational/cultural/scientific achievement for the good of mankind, or even in terms of economic success. For the former one might note that Western success in winning Nobel prizes for proven achievement far exceeds that of Islamic cultures to the point of being ridiculous. As an example of this, I believe it is accurate to say that people of Jewish heritage (whom you as a muslim would no doubt view as ‘inferior’ if not even ‘ape-like) have achieved close to 100 prizes whereas the Islamic roll of honour to date numbers, I believe, just 2 or 3.
And may I quote you once more?…” but here site admin blindly deleting my post without any reason(no bad word,insulting,harassment) but they allowing ppl who says bad word against Islam,prophet,etc.i says “its not a moral/trustful criticism/ debate……its just some criminals spreading their vulgar characters/behavior here.”…I am really sorry to be so pedantic, Mr Hassan, but if you really wish to express yourself intelligibly on this site, then it is best (a) to use good English and (b) to order your ideas in such a way that they present some semblance of logical sense. To begin with, any deletions on any site must be done for some reason and scarcely ‘blindly’, even if the reasoning is not clear to you. As for..”allowing ppl who says bad word against Islam,prophet,etc..” (dear oh dear, Mr. Hassan, it took me some time to make out what you were attempting to say there) I think we come back to your point about ‘free speech’. You see, what YOU think is a ‘bad word against Islam’s Prophet’ (I have corrected your appallingly bad English here) might for a lot of people be a perfectly valid criticism of an historical person who is purported by some to have been a ‘Prophet’ but is seen by others as not only nothing of the kind but, in a career which presents as a catalogue of gross criminality, also an appallingly bad role-model for humanity. Since any criticism of a person based on their perceived criminal tendencies must of necessity have a ‘moral’ basis, such criticism can hardly be deemed ‘not moral’, and if it is honestly based on reported fact, it must be trustworthy. In free debate you cannot dismiss arguments on these utterly specious terms simply because you personally do not happen to like or agree with them, unless of course this brings us back to your Islamic concept of ‘free speech’ where, according to you, ideas and concepts that do not accord with your Islamic precepts would apparently have no validity. And as for “its just some criminals spreading their vulgar characters/behavior here”, I’m afraid that many people from around the world reading your offerings on this site would take that as a description more fitting of yourself as a muslim than others posting here. If you wish to dispute this, I suggest that you study the news from around the world and take note of the multitudinous horrendous reports of ‘criminal’, ‘vulgar’ behaviour perpetrated on a daily basis by your fellow muslims, and in the name of your ‘prophet’.
Finally, do kindly STOP giving people endless quotations from your ‘holy book’ as a means of justifying yourself. It really is counter-productive since no-one here accepts your beliefs and your scriptures as valid in any way or form and simple confirms the impression that you might be little more than a rather irritating, narrow-minded, arrogant, ignorant, blinkered bigot.
gravenimage says
The vile shabeer_hassan wrote:
@gravenimage..
Islam gives the right of freedom of thought and expression to all citizens of the Islamic State on the condition that it should be used for the propagation of virtue and truth and not for spreading evil and wickedness.
………………………………….
In other words, such “freedom” only applies to propagating the savage creed itself—apart from that, not only expression but even *thought* is banned in Islam.
And we see how this works in practice in the Islamic State, where even high-ranking thugs frequently run afoul of its arbitrary strictures and are regularly murdered. *Ugh*.
More:
This Islamic concept of freedom of expression is much superior to the concept prevalent in the West.
………………………………….
This is not, in fact, freedom at all, but slavery. No surprise that a pious Mohammedan would confuse the two…
More:
but here site admin blindly deleting my post without any reason(no bad word,insulting,harassment) but they allowing ppl who says bad word against Islam,prophet,etc.i says “its not a moral/trustful criticism/ debate……its just some criminals spreading their vulgar characters/behavior here.
………………………………….
Apparently shabeer hassan believes that Jihad Watch is a forum for spreading Da’wa. Well, why not? He believes that *everything* should be such a platform. He also has claimed that he has been censored before, but his long, vicious posts actually clutter many comments threads here. His claim of his posts being removed may, in fact, be false.
Note, further, that he believes that those who stand against the horror of Islam are *criminals*—in other words, that the West should imprison and murder those standing against Jihad and Shari’ah just as Dar-al-Islam does.
He is claiming that he should not so much as have a post removed here, but that good Anti-Jihadists should be imprisoned and murdered.
More:
#it is about a father forbidding it………..plz read once again it says “my age was tender”
that is i says child participation prohibited ,
………………………………….
Again, it was only the father forbidding his involvement in waging violent Jihad—he began murdering people as soon as his father was no longer in the picture.
More:
#nine to be “adults”………i ever says like that Islam say “l puberty is to be adult”
………………………………….
What shabeer hassan does not say is that he—like so many other meretricious Mohammedans—likes to pretend that third-grade girls have “reached puberty”. *That* is how he condones child rape, which he has done many times. *Ugh*.
More:
#Muslims butchering people in violent Jihad is perfectly Halal……….
torturing character of non Muslim they did
85:10. Verily, those who put into trial the believing men and believing women (by torturing them and burning them), and then do not turn in repentance, (to Allâh), will have the torment of Hell, and they will have the punishment of the burning Fire.
HIROSHIMA,WW2,HOLOCAUST,etc
………………………………….
It is Muslims who are slaughtering people all over the world, and all on the basis of their foul “holy books”. And it is grimly laughable that shabeer hassan would cite the Holocaust, since his coreligionists regularly threaten Jews with another Holocaust, and Hitler is one of the very few Infidels whom they revere. Mein Kampf is a best-seller in the Muslim world.
The truth is that decent Infidels fought to end Fascist aggression, which is virtually identical to Islam in all but superficial ideology.
More:
Dawud :: Book 14 : Hadith 2661
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) used to exhort us to give alms (sadaqah) and forbid us to mutilate (a slain). I then came to Imran ibn Husayn and asked him. He said: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) used to exhort us to give alms (sadaqah) and forbid us to mutilate (a slain).
………………………………….
The “alms” in question is Zakat, which goes to propagate the spread of Islam—which means it funds violent Jihad more than it does anything else. *This* is why most actual charity in the Muslim world—the funding of clinics and orphanages and disaster relief—is actually handled by caring Infidels. And needles to say, Muslims virtually never give to any charity that might actually benefit non-Muslims.
And note his reference to mutilation—this would not be an issue were there not so many “slain”—the “Prophet” was making a great slaughter in the land, and the only issue for him was whether the bodies of the victims should be further desecrated.
Besides, we see how situational even this vestigial form of decency is when it comes to Muslims:
“Libyan Cleric Boujela Justifies Beheadings and Body Mutilation “to Strike Terror in the Heart” of the Enemies”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/05/muslim-cleric-beheadings-permitted-as-a-means-to-strike-terror
In other words, this is “prohibited”—unless terrorizing the victims of Islam is useful. Seeing the number of beheadings and mutilations performed by Muslims shows just how true this is.
More:
Dawud :: Book 41 : Hadith 4939
Narrated Umar ibn al-Khattab:
Masruq said: I met Umar ibn al-Khattab (Allah be pleased with him) who said: Who are you? I replied: Masruq ibn al-Ajda’. Umar then said: I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say: al-Ajda’ (mutilated) is a devil
Dawud :: Book 14 : Hadith 2608
Narrated Anas ibn Malik:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Go in Allah’s name, trusting in Allah, and adhering to the religion of Allah’s Apostle. Do not kill a decrepit old man, o a young infant, or a child, or a woman;
Malik :: Book 21 : Hadith 21.3.10
Do not kill women or children or an aged, weak person, Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them.
i think that enough for u
………………………………….
These are all, of course, Hadith from the Meccan period—by the time of the Hejira, the “Prophet” was slaughtering anyone who refused to submit to his savagery quite indiscriminately. His homicidal followers have been following this same path ever since.
And yes—that is *quite* enough for me to continue to oppose the vicious horror you violently champion.
Linde Barrera says
To gravenimage- First, thank you so much for your personal response to me of several days past. Methinks you have lots going on! Good for you. Second, I think your latest response to Shabeer Hassan is a grand slam home run. Rezali Mehil chastized me for my comment about “if they must kill for their religion, let them kill themselves.” He/she said, basically, that I was not good Christian for expressing that. And really gravenimage, I don’t like to see anyone get killed. But I would rather the evil doers who prey on innocents be killed. Only a sadistic, demonic person would want innocent people to die. But to the Islamist way of thinking, (I have learned) you cannot be innocent AT ALL if you are not Muslim. I have you, the other savvy commenters, and Jihad Watch to thank for my education about this. God bless and carry on! You are terrific.
thomas pellow says
Update:-
Another nine Muslims from Britain have been held in Turkey enroute for Islamic State area of Syria:-
“Nine Britons including four children are arrested by Turkish police as they try to illegally enter Syria.
“Brits arrested on Turkey-Syria border and are now in custody.
“Nine people tried to enter Syria illegally, according to local media.
“The arrested Brits are three men, two women and four children.”
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3021861/Nine-Britons-arrested-Turkish-police-try-illegally-enter-Syria.html#ixzz3W5EvazwH
thomas pellow says
“Is Britain losing the war against radical Islam?”
By Douglas Murray.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/03/is-britain-losing-the-war-against-radical-islam/
voegelinian says
Murray’s qualification of Islam (“radical Islam”) shows, unwittingly (and witlessly) why the West continues to be losing. Murray is an asymptotic analyst, a degree or two better than Daniel Pipes, perhaps (who isn’t?).
thomas pellow says
“The parents of those Jihadi runaway girls must take their share of the blame”
By SAIRA KHAN
FOR THE DAILY MAIL.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2989116/The-parents-Jihadi-runaway-girls-share-blame-writes-SAIRA-KHAN.html#ixzz3W5KmagZG
BW022 says
I so completely don’t get this ‘parents don’t trust the police’, are afraid to contact the police, or are afraid this will criminalize their children.
Replace joining ISIS with any other serious crime. Imagine you are a teacher, a parent comes in and says “I am afraid my son is planning to rape someone.” (or murder, assault, blackmail, rob, steal, etc.) You respond with “I think you should report this to the police”. Ok… what possible difference does it make if the parents answer ‘We don’t trust the police’ or ‘We don’t want them punished.’… same responses.
a) I’m a teacher. I have no possible way to prevent this crime.
b) Why are you more afraid of what the London police are going to do to a minor than what the Kurds, US Air Force, Syrian army, etc. is going to do to them on a battlefield in Syria?
c) Why don’t you go see a lawyer if you are worried about reporting your son?
d) Isn’t your moral obligation to prevent harm to others more important than trying to protect your son against punishment for a crime which he did commit?
e) If he does run off to Syria… isn’t he then in way more trouble with the police? Aren’t you? I’d have to testify that you knew and didn’t contact the police. How are your friends, neighbours, bosses, etc. going to react to this.
etc.
Finally, isn’t the teacher obligated to contact the police even if the parents don’t?
gravenimage says
BW022 wrote:
I so completely don’t get this ‘parents don’t trust the police’, are afraid to contact the police, or are afraid this will criminalize their children.
…………………………
BW022, most of these parents are *Muslims*. They don’t want their Jihadist children on the radar of Infidel law enforcement, even if it saves their lives.
More:
Replace joining ISIS with any other serious crime. Imagine you are a teacher, a parent comes in and says “I am afraid my son is planning to rape someone.” (or murder, assault, blackmail, rob, steal, etc.) You respond with “I think you should report this to the police”. Ok… what possible difference does it make if the parents answer ‘We don’t trust the police’ or ‘We don’t want them punished.’… same responses.
…………………………
That’s because “political correctness” is less likely to kick in in the case of ordinary crime. When it comes to possibly “stigmatizing” Muslims, though, most of these teachers would do almost anything to accommodate them. They don’t want to appear “Islamophobic” or “racist”.
More:
a) I’m a teacher. I have no possible way to prevent this crime.
b) Why are you more afraid of what the London police are going to do to a minor than what the Kurds, US Air Force, Syrian army, etc. is going to do to them on a battlefield in Syria?
c) Why don’t you go see a lawyer if you are worried about reporting your son?
d) Isn’t your moral obligation to prevent harm to others more important than trying to protect your son against punishment for a crime which he did commit?
e) If he does run off to Syria… isn’t he then in way more trouble with the police? Aren’t you? I’d have to testify that you knew and didn’t contact the police. How are your friends, neighbours, bosses, etc. going to react to this.
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Unfortunately, most of their friends and neighbors are also likely Muslim. Their bosses might well be more concerned, but are likely to be as strapped by PC/MC as are the teachers.
More:
Finally, isn’t the teacher obligated to contact the police even if the parents don’t?
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I’m not sure what the law is in Britain. I believe this is the case in the US—but only if a crime has actually been committed. I don’t believe they are obligated to make a police report if students are *contemplating* committing a crime, as here, and probably even less so if the concern comes from a third party, such as the parents.
They certainly have a *moral* responsibility to contact police—but how many teachers and other authorities are shirking such responsibilities at this point?
quotha raven says
BW022 – You clearly do not understand Islam,the nature of a theocracy, the Qur’an, sharia law and what jihad and its mandated goals are, or you wouldn’t feel so forlorn and ask such naive (if sincere) questions as “why don’t they get a lawyer?” and bring up conventional morality in the western world, which Islam has NOTHING to do with and NO respect for.
“…I’m a teacher. I have no possible way to prevent this crime….”
Perhaps you could take steps to inform yourself, so that you can be a bit more effective as a teacher and as a human being. A good start might be to study Robert Spencer’s “Islam 101”, and when you’ve digested that, the articles and comments shared here will be a little more comprehensible. Pay attention to Gravenimage above, who definitely has a good handle on things Islam and expresses his/;her thoughts well and clearly. Get to know the profit Mohammed a little.Put a little effort in and you won’t feel quite so helpless and sound so feckless. Cheers! Quotha
quotha raven says
BW022 – …the articles and comments shared here will be a little more comprehensible AND, I might add, you can relate them to the reality that is around us all, staring us in the face. qr
Linde Barrera says
I am a recently retired elementary education public school teacher in NYC, having taught science to Kindergarten thru 5th grade for the past few years. My roster was always 485 or more in any given year. On rare occasions I had to call parents and respectfully inform them that their child, my science student, was being lazy and not doing their work, or behaving inappropriately, such as getting up and doing a dance during the lesson. Most parents corrected the situation immediately, to my relief. BUT, there was always 1 parent who took their child’s side, saying I gave too much work, or “lazy” was way harsh, and this parent complained to the principal about me. So I am stating this to reiterate what all good teachers do: Do the right things by your student.. Notify the parent, the principal, and if protocol warrants it–notify police. You will be well regarded later on, even if it seems in the moment, that you won’t be.
Nimrod says
Part of the problem is that people don’t want to turn the police into the Orwellian thought police. (Unfortunately in the UK they have started getting turned into the thought police but it’s more of a “don’t say anything bad about Islam” thought police transformation.)
Ideally what should happen is that teachers should notify the parents, and the parents themselves should seize the kids’ passports or do whatever to stop them from getting in trouble. At the very least, the teacher can say they did their job by alerting the people responsible for the kids.
The problem is that parents may not notify the government either because they’re militant jihadis themselves or just because they don’t trust the government not to put their kids on a watch list which might cause them to fail background checks for the rest of their lives.
What I do know is that all this “blame the police” crap essentially places all the responsibility on the police, and if the police have to accept all responsibility for this then theyre going to end up becoming more and more like George Orwell’s thought police over time. This process has already started so it’s just a matter of how much worse it gets.
Lilith says
Let them go to ISIS. It has been reported the foreign Muslims coming to fight are given a little training and are put on the front lines, cannon fodder. In other areas too, preference is given to locals over foreign Muslims. So much for ” one Ummah” huh?
And the females are married, willing or not, and when their husbands are killed, they marry someone else, baby making machines, ( where c sections are banned and one report was that a foreigh woman in hospital was left to bleed whilst doctors took care of locals) so they will die, in battle or in childbirth. And good riddance, one less terrorist to come back and kill us in our own countries.
The problem is not in the people leaving, but those coming back. I honestly dont know why goverments do not see this, we certainly do. Or maybe it is that they domsee this and are justvto supposrive of Islam, like our poor excuse for a president, or are too ” PC, multicultural, dhimmie” in the UK.
PRCS says
“The problem is that parents may not notify the government either because they’re militant jihadis themselves”
In truth, it’s that as the parents ARE Muslims, they don’t want the gullible public to learn the truth: that the so called radicalization began with the parents themselves, with constant indoctrination of the children–at home and at mosque–NOT as the result of online chats.
The parents don’t need to be militant jihadis, just Muslims intent on making sure their children grow up to be good Muslims.
That their own children headed off wage jihad–a duty of all physically able Muslims–in Syria really shouldn’t take them by surprise. After all, they obviously taught them well.
Nimrod says
Yes, I believe you are right.
I wish we had more organizations that could help convince Muslims to renounce Islam and help them with the “community issues” (read: vigilante enforcement of sharia law) with leaving Islam.
If I had the management and leadership skills maybe I’d try to start one. But sadly I feel a bit lacking in those areas.