UPDATE: Other reports contradict the one from Reuters below, and have Pope Frank saying to Abbas, “May you be an angel of peace.” Good. Now if we can only get a correction on that statement about the Qur’an and Islam being opposed to every form of violence.
——–
This “angel of peace” last November praised the murderer of a rabbi, saying the killer would go to Paradise as a martyr.
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, eh, Your Holiness?
The Catholic Church has survived a lot of things over the last 2,000 years, and so I would never say it will not survive its current confusion of the aggressor with the victim and cowardice with civility. I would never say that it will not be able to overcome its stupid and self-defeating infatuation with “dialogue” — despite the fact that this “dialogue” has had absolutely zero positive effect in easing the Muslim persecution of Christians worldwide. I would never say it will not be able to overcome its unconscionable aiding and abetting of the genocidal “Palestinian” jihad against Israel. Far be it from me to say that the Church’s willful ignorance and denial about the teachings of the Qur’an and Islam in general are going to result in the deaths of millions of Catholics — deaths that could have been prevented if the Church had had the courage and wisdom to tell its people the truth about the jihad threat and prepare them for what was coming.
No, the Church will survive all this. But there is no doubt that it has entered a dark, stupid era.
“Pope calls Palestinian leader Abbas ‘angel of peace,'” Reuters, May 16, 2015:
Pope Francis met Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on Saturday, calling him “an angel of peace”, days after the Vatican announced a treaty that formalized its recognition of the State of Palestine.
The two met for around 20 minutes in the Vatican and are due to meet again on Sunday at a ceremony to canonize two Palestinian saints.
On Wednesday, the Vatican announced it would shortly sign an agreement with the State of Palestine on issues including the status of the Catholic Church in Palestine.
It was the first formal bilateral treaty between the two and confirmed the Holy See’s de facto recognition of the Palestinian state since it was granted the status of a non-member observer state in the United Nations in 2012.
In a statement, the Vatican said Pope Francis and Abbas had spoken about the peace process with Israel and had expressed the hope that direct contacts between Israel and the Palestinians could resume soon.
Pope Francis gave Abbas a medallion representing an angel of peace, telling the Palestinian leader he thought of him “as an angel of peace.”
WestwardHo says
http://www.israellycool.com/2015/05/16/and-then-pope-francis-called-him-an-angel-of-peace/
ploome says
http://soc.religion.islam.narkive.com/pNwPA3UF/islamic-peace-treaties
According to Sheikh Abdul Rahman Abdul Khaliq, peace treaties with Jews are
made only to be broken. In regard to these he writes:
“The first duty is to firmly believe in their invalidity and that because
they contain invalid conditions they were born dead the very day they were
given birth to…”
“The second duty of the Muslim is to believe that these treaties do not bind
him and that it is not lawful for him to give effect to any of their
contents except under compulsion and necessity..”
“The third duty is to work towards overthrowing these treaties…” (Khaliq,
“Verdict on the Treaties of Compromise and Peace with the Jews”
islaam.com/articles/treaty/htm)
Jovial Joe says
The Pope says you can expect violent retaliation if you insult someone’s religion and he calls the Jihad supporting Abbas an angel of peace. Like the POTUS, is this Pope a secret Muslim? Is he aiding the Jihad against Western civilisation? Sure looks that way.
Brian of London says
Thanks for posting our link here.
Emilie Green says
More wisdom from Pope Gavia Pacificus I.
mortimer says
Pope Neville Chamberlain
Tony Gibson says
Prelude to WWIII is shaping up well mortimer. We have our appeaser to the aggressor in Dope Francis. So too is Obama, only he’s working for the other side and he knows the game plan
jihad3tracker says
Sheesh ! ! ! I know that pot is now legal in several American states — but obviously the Holy See is a hazy zone too . . . What kind of late night munchies do you think Pope Francis raids his refrigerator for ?
Don McKellar says
If Pope Pius XII was pretty much Hitler’s Pope, then Pope Francis is most certainly Muhammad’s Pope.
wildjew says
I agree with you, history is repeating itself and then some. But if you look at the comments on John Cornwell’s book at Amazon you will see not all people believe you; not by a long shot.
Wellington says
John Cornwell’s book, wildjew (and this is to you too, Don McKellar), has been roundly and properly rebuked. You know this by now or you should know it. It’s a trash piece. Even the cover and title of his work is sensationalistic and stupidly tendentious. Even Cornwell himself has had to take back some of the rot he spewed.
You know already where I stand on Pope Pius XII, so I will not go over this with you yet again, but perhaps we can find accord with respect to the present Pope, who truly does keep going from bad to worse and has “fool” written all over him.
wildjew says
Wellington, John Cornwell’s book and style (like Jonah Daniel Goldhagen: “A Moral Reckoning: The Role of the Catholic Church in the Holocaust and Its Unfulfilled Duty of Repair”) is a polemic, no question about it. The cover and the title have been much criticized but so have Mr. Spencer’s book titles been criticized. “The Truth About Muhammad: Founder of the World’s Most Intolerant Religion,” for me and millions of like-minded people, the title is entirely defensible. For millions of Muslims I suspect it is downright offensive.
There is quite bit of scholarship out there. Michael Phayer, Susan Zuccotti, Robert Katz, Saul Frielander, Guenter Lewy and others. I have several of these authors. Their style is more scholarly, less polemic. One or two criticize Cornwell’s style but I’ve not seen any solid refutation of the essentials in his book.
Cornwell wrote: “From a variety of evidence, it is clear that Pacelli believed that the Jews had brought misfortune on their own heads; intervention on their behalf could draw the Church into alliances with forces— principally the Soviet Union— whose ultimate aim was the destruction of the institutional Church. For this reason , as war began, he was determined to distance himself from any appeal on behalf of the Jews at the level of international politics. This did not prevent him from issuing instructions to alleviate their plight at the level of basic charity.
Given this background, we are obliged to conclude that his silence had more to do with a habitual fear and distrust of the Jews than a strategy of diplomacy or a commitment to impartiality. He was perfectly capable of partiality when Holland, Belgium, and Luxemburg were invaded in May 1940. And when German Catholics complained, he wrote to the German bishops pointing out that neutrality was not the same as “indifference and apathy where moral and human considerations demanded a candid word.”
That failure to utter a candid word about the Final Solution in progress
proclaimed to the world that the Vicar of Christ was not moved to pity and anger. From this point of view he was the ideal Pope for Hitler’s unspeakable plan. He was Hitler’s pawn. He was Hitler’s Pope.”
wildjew says
Wellington, (British / Catholic) historian Paul Johnson wrote:
“….the evidence against the Jews was all there in the Bible, which they had written themselves. Therein, of course, lay a terrible problem for the Jews. One of their greatest gifts was the critical faculty. They had always had it. It was the source of their rationality, one of the factors which brought them to monotheism in the first place, for their critical sense would not allow them to accept the follies of polytheism. But they were not only critical; they were, perhaps above all, self-critical. And they were, or at any rate had been in ancient times, superb historians. They saw the truth, sometimes the ugly truth, about themselves, and they told it in the Bible. Whereas other peoples produced their national epics to endorse and bolster their self-esteem, the Jews wanted to discover what had gone wrong with their history, as well as what had gone right. That is why the Bible is littered with passages in which the Jews are presented as a sinful people, often too wicked or obstinate to accept God’s law, though they know it. The Jews, in fact, produced the evidence for their own prosecution.
History of the Jews by Paul Johnson (p. 206)
Sadly, we do not see this self-critical faculty in the Church by and large. Too many people of faith are unable or unwilling to see “the truth, sometimes the ugly truth, about themselves” and their history.
wildjew says
“Saul Friedländer.” My apologies.
Kepha says
Wildjew and Wellington:
Interesting interchange. Still, before you accuse the church (wider than the Roman one) of a want of self-criticism, I’d urge you to read sermons in the Puritan “Jeremiad” tradition. Such sermons got that monniker for a reason!
In any case, I share your dismay at the current Pope. But, then again, I am a Protestant.
Wellington says
Thank you for reply, wildjew (Kepha too). In 2008, nine years after the publication of Hitler’s Pope, Cornwell retracted many things in his 1999 book, among them being that 1) Pius XII was not a Nazi sympathizer; 2) he did not favor Hitler; 3) he was not an anti-Semite. Moreover, Cornwell got a lot of facts simply wrong. Here’s an example: In his book he asserted that when Pius met with a US State Department official (Harold Tittman) on October 19th, 1943, he (Pius) did not comment at all to the American about the round-up of Roman Jews on October 16th. Trouble is that Pius met with Tittman on the 14th, two days before said round-up, and yet Cornwell blamed Pius for not mentioning it to the American.
My fundamental point about Pius has never changed and that is that he saw that working quietly behind the scenes would be much more effective in saving lives, both Jewish and non-Jewish, than if he regularly spoke out against Nazi evil (which he still did on occasion, such as his Christmas message of 1942 which infuriated Hitler). I mean if you could speak out against evil and save 200 lives or keep quiet about evil much of the time and save 1000 lives, which would you do? At the very least, reasonable minds could differ about this. Speaking for myself, I think Pius’s choice was the wiser AND more humane one——-by far.
gravenimage says
Agreed, Wellington.
spot on says
Comparing Pope Francis to Pope Pius XII is not feasible. Comparing Muslims to Hitler is feasible since they were direct allies and Hitler’s supporters. (I am with Wellington on Pope Pius XII.)
My opinion is that Pope Francis is an “old fashioned” liberal in every fiber of his body. “Old fashioned” liberals don’t try to make sense and they really don’t, except to another “old fashioned” liberal. They follow their heart notwithstanding the facts. Liberals of today can be either a true Marxist with a plan or an “old fashioned” liberal leading from the heart. (Our POTUS has a plan. Pope Francis does not.)
wildjew says
Wellington, I have no way to independently confirm Cornwell’s misstatement of fact in this instance. He looks to put Harold Tittmann’s audience with the pope on October 18 with a footnote: “Telegram from Tittmann to Secretary of State Hull, October 19, 1943, in Foreign Relations of the U.S., 1943, quoted in Katz, Black Sabbath, 259.” But Robert Katz and Michael Phayer look to put the audience with the pope on October 19th. At any rate authors occasionally get these details (dates, etc.) wrong.
At the time I read Cornwell’s book (I’ve got the audio version on tape as well), I was active here in our local pro-life movement. The larger portion of our town’s pro-life activists are Catholic because the local priest is outspokenly pro-life. I wondered then how they might react if I urged them to work quietly behind the scenes rather than participate in all the side-walk counseling / activism with their graphic images of unborn children mutilated and ripped from the womb. I am certain the abortionist would have preferred they work quietly behind the scenes on Saturdays when his patients showed up at the abortion mill. Maybe he would have performed fewer abortions as these activists might have provoked him to kill more children out of spite.
Little doubt Robert Spencer’s and Pamela Geller’s critics would prefer they work silently behind the scenes and not provoke them with their the content of their websites, books, ads on buses and subways; with draw Muhammad events, etc.
As to Cornwell retracting several charges found in his book, I’ve not seen such condemnation and outrage against a single author (a Catholic author) from church apologists in my life; not until I saw the fury Pamela Geller has been exposed to the past couple of weeks. To her credit, thus far, Pamela has not been cowed into any retractions or apologies, like John Cornwell issued. If I were advising John Cornwell, I would have advised him to stand his ground. He has nothing to apologize for.
wildjew says
spot on says, gravenimage, this is why in my opinion (resulting from lack of intellectual honesty and moral clarity) David Pryce-Jones wrote in the forward to one of R. Spencer’s books, “absolutism will triumph and the Muslim fantasy of superiority (supremacy) will come true.”
spot on says
“resulting from lack of intellectual honesty and moral clarity”
I agree. The “old fashioned” liberals do not comprehend facts and the Marxists and Islam will make every effort to keep them on their side until they are ready to pull the trigger on the trap. We see the danger and they don’t.
Muslims and Marxists use Pope Francis as their useful idiot. It is not easy for us to watch.
Wellington says
Wildjew: I don’t think there is any comparsion between going against an abortionist and his supporters and going against Nazis. C’mon.
One last matter about Pius XII which I doubt you know It is this: Pius kept a letter of resignation in his desk which only his closest associates in the Vatican knew about. The reason why he did this was that should Hitler seize Pius and imprison him, as Napoleon did to Pius VII, the letter stated that that should function as an abdication by Pius and that thereafter the College of Cardinals should elect a new pope. You see, Pius knew he had already pushed the envelope enough times with Hitler and this was just one more reason why he proceeded as he did. Don’t forget that when Pius died in 1958 he was lauded by the world Jewish community. Hochuth’s deceitful play, The Deputy, which came out in 1963, began the terrible reversal of Pius’ life and works, which included, quite arguably, saving more Jews than any other single person ever has throughout all of history.
wildjew says
Wellington, I guess we (you and I) have a fundamental disagreement. Working quietly behind the scenes in the face of a great moral evil isn’t an acceptable option in my view. Nor is any kind of complicity with evil as we currently witnessing with Iran, Islam, etc. Negotiating a treaty with genocidal Iran is negotiating with evil. Negotiating a concordat (Reichskonkordat) with Nazi Germany is negotiating with evil. Congratulating the Fuhrer warmly and publicly on his birthday is congratulating evil warmly and publicly. The current international effort at appeasing Islamic supremacits is not without a related historic precedent in Church history or in world history.
As to boneheaded Jewish leaders who lauded Pope Pius XII when he died in 1958, what can I say? Some of Israel’s current crop of leaders are little better. That is why I prefer Ha Bayit Yehudi (Jewish Home party) over Likud. Less appeasement. Less complicity.
Wellington says
Yes, wildjew, we will have to agree to continue to disagree about Pius XII, who saved more Jews from death than any other person ever has. I would also register a major disagreement with you by way of your comparing Cornwell with Spencer and Geller.
Spencer and Geller accurately oppose true evil. By contrast, Cornwell engaged in defamation of the highest order. He in no way deserves to be put in the same category with Spencer and Geller. One knows this or should know it. Unfortunately, you don’t.
wildjew says
Wellington, you missed the object of my comparison. There are no perfect historic comparisons.
Adolf Hitler and Nazism were not true evils?
I was not comparing Spencer and Geller to John Cornwell but to God’s viceroy on earth. I wrote: “Little doubt Robert Spencer’s and Pamela Geller’s critics would prefer they work silently behind the scenes (like Pope Pius XII did) and not provoke them with their the content of their websites, books, ads on buses and subways, draw Muhammad events, etc.”
The same applies to Pope Frances. Appeasing evil and evil doers is a bad idea.
Wellington says
Wildjew: You did at least implicitly compare Cornwell to Spencer (Geller too) in your 10:29 P.M. post of May 16th.
Also, Pius, unlike Francis, never appeased evil. “All” he did was develop his own way to oppose it, a way I might add that saved far more lives than if Pius had gone a more public route. Finally, I think you underestimate the worldwide Jewish community in the year 1958. For instance, Golda Meir, then in the Israeli cabinet and future Prime Minster of a state that both you and I fully support, gave Pius a moving eulogy at the United Nations upon word of his death.
wildjew says
Wellington, you wrote: “Also, Pius, unlike Francis, never appeased evil.”
Maybe that is why Cornwell is so much despised. He makes the opposite case:
“Within days of marching into Prague, the Führer was demanding a corridor to Danzig, the Baltic port he was claiming as Reich territory. In a move calculated to warn Hitler off, British prime minister Neville Chamberlain guaranteed Poland’s independence and promised aid on March 31. As the crisis deepened in Europe,
Pacelli devoted himself to initiatives that might lead to a peace conference in which the papacy would take a leading role. Much now depended on the diplomatic team that he had assembled around him. Pacelli’s goal was clear from the outset. There would be no more attempts to call the Nazis and Fascists to order. The policy of appeasement, which he characterized in a phrase that would echo through the war years—“ the Pope is working for peace”— was to dominate the public face of the Vatican’s initiatives. To set the tone of his pontificate, he
chose as his coat of arms a dove carrying an olive branch.
Hitler’s Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII by John Cornwell
wildjew says
Wellington, I notice Golda Meir is invoked quite a lot by Pope Pius’ defenders but Meir was a politician. Might she have had political motives for eulogizing the pope given the power and the international sway of the Church? She was not a scholar or an historian.
Is Golda Meir, a politician, qualified to make reliable (authoritative) claims about Pope Pius XII?
In light of this discussion, I bought Rabbi David Dalin’s book yesterday, “The Myth of Hitler’s Pope: Pope Pius XII And His Secret War Against Nazi Germany.”
Wellington says
Meir was in the Israeli cabinet when Pius died and spoke on behalf of the Isareli government and people when she gave her moving eulogy to him at the UN. Also, the Chief Rabbi of Rome after WWII actually converted to Catholicism out of his reverence for Pius. Similar testimonials can be found along these lines. Pius did say something to the effect right after the war that he wished he could have done more. This was simple Christian humility on his part but later it was turned into something invidious by those who couldn’t get it through their head that Pius had actually done enormous things to save huge numbers of people, Jewish and non-Jewish, behind the scenes (e.g., instructing Cardinal Angelo Roncalli, the future John XIII, to issue fake baptismal certificiates to Jewish children in France to pass them off as Catholics).
As for Pius still working for peace even after March of 1939, I don’t read much into this at all. What else is a modern Pope supposed to do but work for peace at all times? So, I don’t consider this appeasement just desperate hope. Besides, Pius was a realist. So, I think he knew and most everyone knew that such attempts at peace were pro forma stuff. Let’s face it, unlike Chamberlain who finally realized what Hitelr was about, Pius didn’t have any military to back up any war talk with (contra a Renaissance Pope like Julius II) and he also had to be concerned, hugely so, with the lives of priests and nuns in Nazi occupied Europe, something Chamberlain and other politicians did not need to directly concern themselves with.
Thanks for the exchange, wildjew. We may continue to disagree about Pius, but we’re pretty much on the same page with respect to our own times and especially on the matter of Islam, which is indeed truly invidious. Take care.
American says
There is something really very wrong with this Pope. He should be fighting for Christians, not appeasing Islamists. If I was a conspiracy buff, I would say he is a plant, just like Obama…but that would be crazy…
Hook says
His thoughts will change when Islam is kicking down the doors of the Vatican. All they’ll want is his head.
Never trust a Muslime. Lying is what they’re best at. Apart from rape, murder etc etc
tilda says
“…on issues including the status of the Catholic Church in Palestine.”
Can’t shake the feeling that they’re looking ahead. The Catholic Church has long had an eye on “the Holy Land” / Jerusalem.
Any such treaty probably not worth the paper it’s written on. They need to look at Islam’s history of breaking agreements.
ploome says
http://soc.religion.islam.narkive.com/pNwPA3UF/islamic-peace-treaties
According to Sheikh Abdul Rahman Abdul Khaliq, peace treaties with Jews are
made only to be broken. In regard to these he writes:
“The first duty is to firmly believe in their invalidity and that because
they contain invalid conditions they were born dead the very day they were
given birth to…”
“The second duty of the Muslim is to believe that these treaties do not bind
him and that it is not lawful for him to give effect to any of their
contents except under compulsion and necessity..”
“The third duty is to work towards overthrowing these treaties…” (Khaliq,
“Verdict on the Treaties of Compromise and Peace with the Jews”
islaam.com/articles/treaty/htm)
Angemon says
No, he’s more like a grim reaper wanna-be. That should be obvious to everyone. But hey, if the Pope wants to emulate the leaders of Medina who took in muhammad, more power to him. I’ve read that story and, spoiler alert, it ends badly for them. As in “we’re been persecuted, exiled and killed because we took in a rabid rat who pretended to be a lost puppy” bad.
epistemology says
Let me put it in Latin “Sancta simpicitas” translates to holy simple mindedness. He’s digging the grave of his own people the Christian palis the muzzie palis will oppress them more. But the pope fails to comprehend
Wellington says
Agreed, epistemology. Francis is abysmal in comprehending how the world works. He is a disaster in the making. I have no doubt that many, many Catholics already know this by now. What an horrendous choice for Pope he is proving to be.
somehistory says
In a statement, the Vatican said Pope Francis and Abbas had spoken about the peace process with Israel and had expressed the hope that direct contacts between Israel and the Palestinians could resume soon.
**************************************************************************************************************************
No doubt there will be *direct contacts between Israel and the “Palestinians”* but it isn’t likely to be anywhere near peaceful contact as this abbas and his ilk do not want peace. They want Israel completely destroyed.
There is “no peace for the wicked (Isaiah 48:22; 57:21)”. abbas wickedly gives gifts to murderers.
wildjew says
“No, the Church will survive all this. But there is no doubt that it has entered a dark, stupid era….”
It is not just the Church (the Church should know better), the entire international community is moving in this direction, even as Iran is a threshold nuclear-armed state. When Iran tests its first nuke as many expect, it will multiply these powerful weapons by the hundreds in the years to come, no doubt distributing them to terror cells around the globe. There will be a nuclear arms race in the Middle East. In the event there could be few survivors and no real winner.
Champ says
How absurd!
Richie says
This Pope clearly depises Jews and the state of Israel- he is siding with thiose who want all Jews wiped out.
I think this Pope needs to reread the Bible
Paleologos says
As Robert and many of you know, I have posted out here for years.
Being a NY born Catholic of German descent, I was always proud of Benedict XVI’s brave stance against the violence condoned by islam in his famous Regensburg speech. …
http://w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg.html
excerpted in part:
In the seventh conversation (διάλεξις – controversy) edited by Professor Khoury, the emperor touches on the theme of the holy war. The emperor must have known that surah 2, 256 reads: “There is no compulsion in religion”. According to some of the experts, this is probably one of the suras of the early period, when Mohammed was still powerless and under threat. But naturally the emperor also knew the instructions, developed later and recorded in the Qur’an, concerning holy war. Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the “Book” and the “infidels”, he addresses his interlocutor with a startling brusqueness, a brusqueness that we find unacceptable, on the central question about the relationship between religion and violence in general, saying: “Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”[3] The emperor, after having expressed himself so forcefully, goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. “God”, he says, “is not pleased by blood – and not acting reasonably (σὺν λόγω) is contrary to God’s nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats… To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death…”.[4]
*******************************************************************
Let us not forget that muslims took revenge against Catholics for the Regensburg speech. …
http://www.danielpipes.org/3968/pope-benedict-criticizes-islam
Whatever the pope’s purpose, he prompted the near-predictable furor in the Muslim world. Religious and political authorities widely condemned the speech, with some calling for violence.
“The Pope and those who live under his cloak,” Al-Risala, a Palestinian newspaper, September 18, 2006. In Britain, while leading a rally outside Westminster Cathedral, Anjem Choudary of Al-Ghurabaa called for the pope “to be subject to capital punishment.”
In Iraq, the Mujahideen’s Army threatened to “smash the crosses in the house of the dog from Rome” and other groups made blood-curdling threats.
In Kuwait, an important website called for violent retribution against Catholics.
In Somalia, the religious leader Abubukar Hassan Malin urged Muslims to “hunt down” the pope and kill him “on the spot.”
In India, a leading imam, Syed Ahmed Bukhari, called on Muslims to “respond in a manner which forces the pope to apologise.”
A top Al-Qaeda figure announced that “the infidelity and tyranny of the pope will only be stopped by a major attack.”
The Vatican responded by establishing an extraordinary and unprecedented security cordon around the pope. Further away, the incitement spurred some violence, with more likely on the way. Seven churches were attacked in the West Bank and Gaza, one in Basra, Iraq (prompting this ironic headline at the “RedState” blog: “Pope implies Islam a violent religion … Muslims bomb churches”). The murder of an Italian nun in Somalia and two Assyrians in Iraq also appear connected.
**********************************************************
I would remind wildjew and others that, although the Pope speaks for the Catholic Church, he is not necessarily “The Church” if he is speaking stupidly. Francis is at the very least very stupid, and will obviously do more damage as long as he commandeers the bully pulpit.
But I am not the only Catholic who knows this.
I remain a Catholic, but Pope Francis no longer speaks for me.
I stand with Pope Benedict XVI and the Jews.
R/
Paleologos
wildjew says
Paleologos, here is the problem. A leader can do much damage in the event the people maintain their / our collective silence. Catholics need to speak out publicly. Based on my personal experience, I expect R. Spencer will get some push-back for this and other similar statements about the pope.
I refer often to former President George W. Bush. I voted for him in 2000. Bush did some of the same nonsense with Israel and Islam that Pope Francis is doing. Bush called arch-terrorist Mahmoud Abbas “a man of peace; a man of vision.” Bush pushed his road map on Israel. Bush pressured Israel to retreat in the face of violent jihad. Sharon bowed to pressure. He retreated from Gaza, August 2005.
Mr. Bush and his people maintained Israel illegitimate occupied Palestinian (Muslim) land. Bush assured the American people, Islam’s teachings are peaceful and good and the September hijackers were traitors to their faith, trying in effect to hijack Islam itself. Conservatives and Republicans were either silent or we circled the wagons around Bush. Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and others carried Bush’s water for seven years post 9/11/2001. They had to know Bush was violating fundamental conservative principles when it came to identifying and defeating the enemy. Silence (complicity) in the face of evil has its consequence. I believe Barack Obama is the fruit of our complicity and our silence during the Bush years. World leaders can do terrible damage whether they speak for us or not.
Paleologos says
wildjew says
May 16, 2015 at 10:07 pm
Paleologos, here is the problem. A leader can do much damage in the event the people maintain their / our collective silence. Catholics need to speak out publicly. Based on my personal experience, I expect R. Spencer will get some push-back for this and other similar statements about the pope.
I refer often to former President George W. Bush. I voted for him in 2000. Bush did some of the same nonsense with Israel and Islam that Pope Francis is doing.
***********************************
wildjew,
I agree with you.
You have touched on a number of problems.
Catholics absolutely must confront Francis on his pro-Palestinian statements. They are completely out of whack with reality. Francis aligning himself and the Catholic Church with the Palestine myth is almost blasphemous in my eyes!
George W. Bush, though well intended, does not “get” islam, and probably never will.
… here’s the “W” view …
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010917-11.html
The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That’s not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don’t represent peace. They represent evil and war.
When we think of Islam we think of a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. Billions of people find comfort and solace and peace. And that’s made brothers and sisters out of every race — out of every race.
America counts millions of Muslims amongst our citizens, and Muslims make an incredibly valuable contribution to our country. Muslims are doctors, lawyers, law professors, members of the military, entrepreneurs, shopkeepers, moms and dads. And they need to be treated with respect. In our anger and emotion, our fellow Americans must treat each other with respect.
Women who cover their heads in this country must feel comfortable going outside their homes. Moms who wear cover must be not intimidated in America. That’s not the America I know. That’s not the America I value.
***************************
Here’s something else. After taking us into war in Iraq, “W” still had the U.S. military fight with one arm tied behind it’s back. Here are two examples:
1) We allowed a long truck caravan to go from Iraq into Syria without inspection! I bet dollars to donuts some of the mystical WMD that nobody could ever find, at least chemical weapons, were in that caravan.
2) We had an armed drone eyeball a Taliban funeral with at least 150 – 200 Taliban attending, … AND DID NOT FIRE! How many of those scum went on to kill our soldiers in the ensuing days?
As for obama … he is a muslim Manchurian candidate … ’nuff said.
We are all being victimized by horrible leaders in many venues.
Too many people in the world still think of islam as a legitimate religion.
islam is an anti-western ideology, masquerading as a religion, that is trying to conquer the world.
R/
Paleologos
dumbledoresarmy says
Islam isn’t just “anti-Western”.
it’s anti-*human*.
It is trying to destroy not just ‘the west’ but the world. It always has done; the Muslim sacking of Constantinople and the desecration of the Hagia Sophia is parallelled, in the east, by the Muslim sacking of the Buddhist university of Nalanda.
In Mali, one of the jihadi gang bosses declared that he was in a war (presumably, he said “jihad’) “against all the musicians of the world”.
Imagine the sheer insanity of that: a war declared upon all music, all musicians, *everywhere*.
The mohammedan mob, if it got what it wants, would silence all music, smash all the statues – the Apollo of Delphi, the Pieta of Michaelangelo, the Kuan Yin – destroy all visual arts, *end* all thinking, forbid people to have pet dogs or drink wine. It wants to drag us – all of humanity – down into a place of barrenness and nothingness that even our stone age ancestors did not inhabit…they who tamed dogs, invented alcoholic drinks, made music and painted pictures.
Anthony says
Pope Francis is trying to appease the devil. He can speak for himself, but not for me, a catholic. I stand with Pope Benedict and the Jews.
Malcolm says
I am a Catholic, my loyalty is with the Papacy. By this time you have had enough time to know that you are misinformed.
This quote from pope Francis to Abbas, is from Zenit:
“I was thinking of you so that you may be an angel of peace.” The Holy Father also gave him an English copy of his Apostolic Exhortation, Evangelii Gaudium.
May the peace of Jesus be with you and I trust you will do the right thing.
Jay Airahs says
Beware the angel of darkness, Abbas.
He speaks from the place where the sun don’t shine.
Bezelel says
What does he base a statement like that on? Who is keeping him up on current events?
Champ says
Abbas is an “angel of peace” and I’m the Queeeeen of England! …wow isn’t life grand?
Kepha says
@Champ
Abbas is an angel of peace? Uncle Kepha also has a confession to make, Champ. I am actually Jan Karol Wojtyla, the former Pope John Paul II. The death and funeral were all staged, and I am a spry old man at present. One day, after reading the Epistle to the Romans, I became convinced I was leading an entity utterly opposed to what Christ and the Apostles taught, so I left a letter on my desk explaining my new point of view, quietly slipped into some civilian clothes, snuck out a back door of the Vatican with a couple pieces of luggage, and went to America to become a teacher of languages and history. It really is a much more satisfying life, ya know….
Sorry, folks. Couldn’t help myself.
Once, after giving a lecture on history, a student asked me how it was I knew so much history. Instead of saying, “I’ve read a lot, and that’s why they hired me for this job”, I said, “The first job I ever had was, when I was your age, carrying Abraham’s luggage out of Ur of the Chaldees”. Unfortunately, some of the class, noting my wrinkles and gray head, believed me.
I’ll never learn.
Champ says
Great story, Kepha!! lol! 😀
David, Thailand says
A prince of the Tartars, having converted to Christianity, vowed he would go to Lyons and there kiss the feet of the Pope and witness the sanctity of Christian morals.
Louis the King tried as he could to dissuade him from this, being positive that the Oriental, once he viewed the true state of Western affairs, must start back in revulsion. But the Tartar would not be dissuaded and went…and he came down from Lyons still more firmly converted because, as he said, this must indeed be a
great religion which can maintain itself when even its titular head and its retainers are so sunk in depravity and evil.
John Gehrke says
Not all are evil – here’s one small example of right http://english.alarabiya.net/en/variety/2015/05/16/Muslim-homeless-man-hailed-a-hero-after-rescuing-Israeli-woman.html
InfidelWench says
Pope Francis has just crossed the fine line between leftism and insanity.
Rebecca says
My grandmother was saved by the Catholic church during the holocaust, who sheltered her and her sister in a monastery, while their parents were sent to concentration camps. Thank G-d, my great-grandparents survived, and the monastery returned their daughters to them, alive and well.
I have worked with Catholics, and I have found them to be very moral and very supportive of Israel.
That being said- I find this very disturbing. What is wrong with their pope? He shud have his hands full trying to advocate and save christians who are suffering the world over from oppression, and particularly the Christians that are suffering from genocide right now. Does he have nothing better to do that support the palestinians? For goodness sake, the Jews have ONE country, just ONE, after 2,000 years of oppression, exiles, pogroms, inquisition, Cossack, crusades, holocaust, blood libels, gettos….. can’t you leave the Jews alone FOR ONCE IN HISTORY??????
Voytek says
Credits to you, for telling the truth what was real Catholic’s attitude towards Jews in German occupied Europe.
Can the Jews be left alone? Not as long koran exists and is being read.
Voytek says
Actually, Abbas came to meet with pope when the latter one was canonizing 2 “Palestinian” nuns, so it seems that at least superficially, Abbas condoned christian activity in the muslim-majority land.
Ernie says
This “pope” is an imposter , first officially recognizing ” The State of Palestine” and now this WICKEDNESS ! Calling a mass murderer and instigator to violence and racism ( anti-Semitism ) an “angel of peace”? It seems “pope”Francis has lost his head already . He will NOT be missed .
Peter B says
FWIW, La Stampa is quoting the Pope as having said “may you be an angel of peace.” If that’s accurate, it must mean that AFP and the rest of the MSM published an incompetent or tendentious translation. Not that that would ever happen.
Lee Hicks says
Though I don’t believe that the Pope is the coming Antichrist or False Prophet of prophecy, I do believe that he will play and important and treacherous part in unfolding events.
From all that I have seen and looked into, I firmly believe that the Antichrist will be the Mahdi, or 12th Imam that Muslims are looking for. I believe that he will be Islamic in origin and religion, and may come from Turkey (or closely nearby). The more one looks into the descriptions of the Antichrist and the Mahdi, it would take blindness to fail to see that they describe the same person.
Muslims expect that the second in command to the Mahdi will be Christ Himself. This imposter Christ again fits the description of the False Prophet exactly, and in my mind, is the reason that so many professing Christians will be tempted to follow the Mahdi (and by extension, Allah). This false Christ will claim to never have died at all, that Christians had it wrong all along, and that Allah is the only god. He will likely look, sound, and act as many will expect Christ to, and will perform Christlike miracles as well. Again, I believe he will be an adherent to Islam, though possibly of Jewish appearance.
As to the Pope, I believe that he will be the head of the cheering section for the apostasy, accepting this false Christ and false gospel without a qualm. If this Pope is still in place when the tribulation comes, we can already see his willingness to call a murderer and terrorist like Abbas an “angel of peace”. How much more will he back someone who looks, to all appearances, to be Christ Himself? He won’t miss a beat in jumping on the Islamic false doctrine train.
It is vital that believers be aware of such deceivers, and of the false doctrines and false Christ that is coming to the Middle East desert, and to heed the adomonition that Christ gave:
Mat 24:21-27
“For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Behold, I have told you before.
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”
gravenimage says
Pope calls “Palestinian” leader Abbas an “angel of peace”
……………………………….
Did he mean “angel of death”?
ronald says
i think he is handing out an olive branch for peace too Abbas. i don’t not agree with him but will take an attitude of waiting to se what Abbas will do next.
celtic warriarcanada says
And this Pope, Is AN ANGEL OF LIGHT , like THE APOSTLE PAUL DESCRIBES IN 2 Corinth.11:13,14,15 ” For such are false apostles,deceitful workers,transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.And no wonder! For satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness,whose end will be according to there works . OR ELSE THIS POPE IS JUST PLAIN STUPID !
Ernie says
Dear Celtic…. , this description from the apostle Paul certainly fits this “Pope” perfectly . I’m curious what wicked acts will follow from this imposter , who dares to call himself ” the Vicar of Christ on Earth “. Nothing amazes me any more .
Plutarchus7 says
HOW DARE YOU PEOPLE CRITICIZE POPE FRANCIS
for speaking the truth and calling Abbas an “angel of peace.” Didn’t he end the murderous conflict between his pan-Arab PLO and Islamic supremacist Hamas? Are not the two at peace? Who but an angelic being loved by God could have achieved such a miraculous feat? “Blessed are the peacemakers” says scripture. Surely in life blessed Abbas deserves the Nobel Peace Prize. And surely in death canonization as the Church’s first non-Catholic saint. /sarc
Is Francis the First the Vicar of Christ? Or is he Allah’s First Pope?
Click http://www.apollospeaks.com for the answer.
Apollodorus says
Just hours after I posted the above unbelievable as it is Pope Francis canonized two Palestinian nuns:
Marie-Alphonsine and Mariam of Jesus Crucified Baouardy-the first two Palestinian saints of modern times.
And guess whose great presence blest the canonization ceremony? None other that the Angel of Peace himself: Mahmoud Abbas. You can’t make this stuff up.
duh_swami says
Rope a Pope…’If you act like you have power, people will soon give it to you’…If you act delusional, you probably are.
There is no, ‘angel of peace’, and if there is, it’s certainly not a terrorist. It’s amazing how otherwise intelligent, educated people, will believe utter nonsense if it is written in a book called ‘holy’…If this belief was not a killer, it would be humerus.
Tony Gibson says
I’ve been rebutted on twitter for rebuking the Pope per the above Reuters reporting of his meeting with Abbas. Robert, please read the following verbatim per Brian of London from his blog on Israellycool:
The Italian sources, including those closest to the Vatican have a completely different reading:
He did utter the words “angel of peace,” and he suggested that Abbas could or might be one. In the context of the pope’s complete statement about the meeting, the implication was that Abbas could be an angel of peace if he resumed direct negotiations with Israel.
Why did Francis say the words “angel of peace” at all? Because he was making a gift to Abbas of a medallion engraved with an image of the Angel of Peace. The Vatican Insider feature of Italy’s La Stampa has this summary in its English version:
“As is tradition with heads of State or of government, Francis presented presented a gift to the Palestinian leader, commenting: “May the angel of peace destroy the evil spirit of war. I thought of you: may you be an angel of peace.” Pope Francis had called Abu Mazen a “man of peace” when he visited Bethlehem in May 2014, just as he called the then Israeli Prime Minister, Shimon Peres, a “man of peace” during his subsequent visit to Jerusalem.”
Plutarchus7 says
BIG DEAL!
http://www.frontpagemag.com/…/pope-francis-mahmoud-abbas-is-a-man-of
The pope made a damn fool himself last year calling Abbas a “man of peace” when his only accomplishment as peacemaker was burying the hatchet with genocidal terrorist Islamonazi Hamas. If he didn’t say “angel of peace” he has no one to blame but himself if that’s how his words are being interpreted.
Plutarchus7 says
CORRECTION:….of himself
Sam says
Obama=Pope=Idiot
spot on says
Both idiots but Obama has a solid Marxist plan and Pope Francis has no plan. Pope Francis is an “old fashioned” liberal like may have been found at home tending children in 1950 with little or no knowledge of what is really going on in the world.
Mirren10 says
Dry Bone’s take.
http://p.feedblitz.com/t3.asp?/20446/25682334/4947473/drybonesblog.com/
spot on says
Miren10, LOL with the link. Who knows how the thinking process works at the Vatican if there is one. It is anyone’s guess. They make no sense the same as most liberals and Pope Francis is a 100% liberal from Argentina.
Brian says
A BBC reporter in the room claimed that Pope Francis said “you are an angel of peace” while presenting a gift (which is Vatican tradition) to Abbas.
The Vatican reporter for the Italian newspaper La Stampa has it differently:
As is tradition with heads of State or of government, Francis presented presented a gift to the Palestinian leader, commenting: “May the angel of peace destroy the evil spirit of war. I thought of you: may you be an angel of peace.”
Calling someone something and exhorting him to be that something are two entirely different things.
SEE:
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2015/05/16/contrary-to-popular-outrage-pope-francis-didnt-call-mahmoud-abbas-an-angel-of-peace/
gravenimage says
Sounds like you were right, Brian.
awake says
Better news.
randal says
I wonder if he was speaking ex-cathedra!
Miles Standish says
The pope is the elected CEO of a world wide religiopolitcal
hegemony and the vatican’s attempt to establish itself as the dominant
geopolitical power won’t slow until the entire world, including the islamic nations, are signed on to the pope’s program. Moreover, the pope can count and he can read middle east maps. He sees Israel and realizes that above all considerations, his being on the winning side is job #1 for his pals in the vatican. The vatican has never cared much for Jews anyway…and it always has loathed Protestant Christians.
Brian says
A BBC reporter in the room claimed that Pope Francis said “you are an angel of peace” while presenting a gift (which is Vatican tradition) to Abbas.
The Vatican reporter for the Italian newspaper La Stampa has it differently:
As is tradition with heads of State or of government, Francis presented presented a gift to the Palestinian leader, commenting: “May the angel of peace destroy the evil spirit of war. I thought of you: may you be an angel of peace.”
Calling someone something and exhorting him to be that something are two entirely different things.
SEE:
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2015/05/16/contrary-to-popular-outrage-pope-francis-didnt-call-mahmoud-abbas-an-angel-of-peace/
Western Canadian says
This loony-toon miles Standish seems to one of several trolls come to visit us lately. I am by no means a lover of the RC, but it is really sickening to see these hate mongers come by, and try to divide the anti-jihadis from each other, through lunatic conspiracy theories, or historical revisionism.
Get lost, idiot troll.
TH says
As for the Vatican “it always has loathed Protestant Christians”, it is at least questionable, as it considers Protestants who are born as such as not responsible for the errors of Protestantism and in no way culpable.
Have you even checked out what Luther had to say about popes, and what kind of vile language he generally used? .
Dennis says
I was born a protestant albeit I am now in a Christian life Church. However.I don’t think protestantism which is basically anti Catholic to be an error in any form.
Part Quote:-
not responsible for the errors of Protestantism and in no way culpable.
Have you even checked out what Luther had to say about popes, and what kind of vile language he generally used? .
John C. Barile says
No. He’s not exercising his ordinary teaching authority, either. Not speaking magisterially. He’s expressing an opinion, as he does all too freely.
The Pope may be infallible in doctrine concerning faith or morals (only by the safeguard of Divine grace–but he’s definitely not infallible about politics or administrative matters. The Pope may be infallible, but he’s not indefectible.
fiona says
Politics is a spiritual battle. One where the pope is siding with the enemy of Gods people. Think. You cannot separate the two as you are trying to do. It’s crazy. God is giving you a man to follow that is so wrong on the chosen people of God and you say that is okay as it is only his opinion!! Then think of all the people that this man is leading astray that listen to him and believe what he says. They then side with evil against Israel. Does this not worry you? Listen get out of the evil satanic church. The only man to follow is Jesus. Jesus is God the Son not the Pope. The pope is siding with Hitler again – Different man same spirit. I got out. It is liberating you won’t have to keep on defending the indefensible.
Salome says
He didn’t actually say that. He told Mr Abbas to be an angel of peace. But even al Beebeeceera, which published that detail, did so under a similar heading to that of the Reuter article.
df says
It doesnt matter what he said – the fact the pope acknowledges a Palestinian state
the fact abbad supported terror attacks on civilians
the fact abbas is a holocaust denier who wrote a book on how the death numbers are exaggerated
does the Vatican acknowledge kurdistan ? does it do something for all the chrsitians in that area whos lives can be saved by getting a country ?
what does the pope say to the fact that beit lehem is allmost fully muslim ??
what does he say that all over the middle east christian numbers are declining fast (except for israel) ?
this is politics maybe in religos stuff his correct but as far as politics his as bad as obama – and thats pretty low
Peter Atkinson says
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2015/05/16/contrary-to-popular-outrage-pope-francis-didnt-call-mahmoud-abbas-an-angel-of-peace/#ixzz3aNpycAvd
La Stampa has it differently – it was an exhortation, not a description.
dumbledoresarmy says
YES.
A very important distinction.
awake says
Agreed, DDA.
dumbledoresarmy says
Now, if only it had been an *exorcism*….
Dessie symington says
The pope did not say. “You are an angel of peace”
He said “May you be an angel of peace”
There is a vast difference so please don’t twist the holy fathers words it dosent help or tell the true story. Thank you God bless
dg says
Its messed up in both versions – its messed up that he even met abbas – the holocause denier who wrote a whole book about it
Peggy says
Even if he said it that way it’s still very wrong and dangerous. It implies that there is a good chance he can be an angel of peace and implies we should have some trust in him. That is dangerous. He would have been better just keeping quiet.
With this kind of leadership the church is in trouble. Not many churches are left standing in ME so the Vatican can fall if enough of them get in.
Western Canadian says
It does not imply that there is a good chance of the jew hating pig doing a 180…. It merely expressed the HOPE that he might…..
Learn to read. Idiot troll.
Peggy says
Don’t you know that when you become abusive you stop being credible?
What give you the right to call people names?
jewdog says
Abbas is the Angel of Death and the Pope is the Fool on the Hill.
Malcolm says
This quote from pope Francis to Abbas, is from Zenit:
“I was thinking of you so that you may be an angel of peace.” The Holy Father also gave him an English copy of his Apostolic Exhortation, Evangelii Gaudium.
However this will not be of concern to you.
jewdog says
It is of concern. The media reported that the Pope called Abbas an “Angel of Peace”. It sounds like an inaccurate report.
jewdog says
“I thought of you because you are an angel of peace,” he told Abbas, according to AFP. (from jpost.com)
That’s a quote. Perhaps that is inaccurate. I don’t trust most journalists, though, as many are leftist propagandists and would like to advance the PLO agenda.
Malcolm says
As a Catholic I am not looking for an apology, however it is disturbing to see how the media imputes words that pope Francis has never said.
I live in Africa, the employer of my wife is jewish who’s parents were protected in Rome by the Catholic Church. What has been said about PiusXXll detractors is what you are saying about Pope Frances.
Catholics have always regarded the Jewish people as older brother and sisters. When hot heads on both sides get together there is trouble.
So peace be with you
Malcolm says
Correction: PiusXll——-Francis
Malcolm says
Thanks, spot on
The Middle East is an emotionally charged issue, so there is no offence taken with the concerns that many of the contributors have on this thread. Insults however are from a inborn lack of respect.
Catholics have fought many battles that constitute the crusades, so we know what we are dealing with.
Gates of Vienna the battle of Lapanto, look up Pelayo of Spain, their modus operandi, is the same then as it is to-day, so we know what we dealing with.
It is rather the secular powers of Europe especially: Britain plus the USA that have no clue what they are dealing with.
The bigger issue is that they are empowering one group, in securing energy to keep their economies going to the detriment of minorities, such as the Jewish, Christian peoples and of course others.
The response of the UN, Britain, and the USA, has been mute to the atrocities against these people. Catholics have no influence here or with their media, we have no army. Look what is happening in Nigeria. It is a disgrace. Human rights is a relative concept in the West
So the issue is not with the Catholic Church, it is with your governments who lack faith in doing the right thing, and in short is incapable of winning any war.
So what do people want the Catholic Church to do, when it is so despised by the secular world, as can be seen on this thread.
Peace be with you
.
silvergreycat says
Malcolm,
*This quote from pope Francis to Abbas, is from Zenit:
“I was thinking of you so that you may be an angel of peace.” The Holy Father also gave him an English copy of his Apostolic Exhortation, Evangelii Gaudium.
However this will not be of concern to you.* Nor will it concern Mr. Abbas whose government’s position remains constant… http://www.mopa.gov.ps/
Malcolm says
It is of concern to Catholics, when violence is directed at Jewiish people, just as it is of concern when violence is directed to Catholics or any other innocent people.
However before one gets emotional of what the Pope Francis never said, check facts,
The mass media is no friend of Catholics and frames Pope Francis in a certain light. Pope Francis is neither conservative or liberal he is Catholic and teaches a teaching that cannot change, now this will take some effort for one who is not catholic to understand this, so lets leave it here.
Peace be with you
spot on says
Malcolm, With all due respect for Catholics, it seems that Pope Francis has embarked on a discussion of politics, not Catholic moral precepts. His expertise as a theologian is limited to theology and Catholic teachings. He has no special knowledge of European countries or the U.S., like Pope John Paul II had with Poland and Hungary. He is an amateur at Geo-Politics and this is way out of his wheelhouse.
If he is trying to save lives, he should state this. I believe Pope Francis is bewildered with the complexities of his job and does not know what to say other than to do what his heart tells him to do. This often looks foolish and is dangerous to world peace.
silvergreycat says
Malcolm,
*It is of concern to Catholics, when violence is directed at Jewiish people, just as it is of concern when violence is directed to Catholics or any other innocent people.* Mr. Abbas–I believe–is neither Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant.
*However before one gets emotional of what the Pope Francis never said, check facts,* Ok.
*The mass media is no friend of Catholics and frames Pope Francis in a certain light.* Regretfully so.
*Pope Francis is neither conservative or liberal he is Catholic and teaches a teaching that cannot change, now this will take some effort for one who is not catholic to understand this, so lets leave it here.* My concern is the Holy Father not realizing Islam and Catholicism’s teachings about Judaism aren’t similar.
*Peace be with you*…And to you as well.
silvergreycat
silvergreycat says
see also…*Did Pope Francis really call Abbas “an angel of peace’?* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otIN4QnQOpo
eib says
He should have given the so-called angel of peace St. Thomas Aquinas, Contra Gentileus.
gravenimage says
However this will not be of concern to you
……………………………
How can you say the truth is of no concern to us, Malcolm? The story above now has an update. Jihad Watch has always been extremely scrupulous.
The other bizarre thing is the implication that Jihad Watch is anti-Catholic, when Robert Spencer *himself* is Melkite Greek Catholic.
Malcolm says
It is encouraging to note the response so far and there is a sense of understanding or seeking what is truth and acknowledging it, even be it grudgingly.
When we attend mass there are 4 ends to it and none of them has to do with politics, other religions or dominating others. In other words it has no place in our mass. This is aimed at the conspiracy theorists.
If the mass media was the source of framing my belief then I would react possibly in the same manner, as some on this thread.
If people think Pope Francis is stupid or a fool when it comes to politics as it does not suite opinions, then you are mistaken. He is well informed through the structures of the local church, right in the smallest localities in the world in a way that major governments are unable to do.
If you disagree with his rational then look for credible sources of information as Western Canadian has indicated in one of his post regarding the Church.
I am well aware of Robert Spencer’s work and insights, which I am grateful; to respond to other things which are assumptions, really does not make sense.
I am out of this thread now.
Peace be with you all.
Aterg says
The pope means well, basically he is a communist with a religion. He is destroying tradition, and without tradition and history there is no future,See ISIS is destroying all past history,hoping to create a future of atavism into barbarism in name of a God.signed a Cstholic
veritas says
We know the enemedia never lies nor distorts. Av Aleksandr Winogradsky, archpriest in charge of the faithful in Israeli society at Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem commented in yesterdays Jerusalem Post website. “Please read the words of Pope Francis correctly and adequately. ‘ SIA (not ‘Lei e’) BE, Become an angel of peace’ its quite different from all the news reports!!! Traduttore tradiorte- translator = treason maker and such betrayals can be terrible. Just ignoramus not able to understand the words and convey them the wrong way.”
Since you deny the enemedia as a reliable news source you should also consider them the same as enemies of the Catholic Church if you are to be consistent. Dante placed the hypocrites in hell with mantes down low before their eyes (Inferno XXIII, 61 62) not far from Schismatics like Mohamet and Ali “He looked at me, and opened with his hands/ His bosom saying ;”See now how I rend me” (Inferno XXVIII, 29, 30)
If the Greek Orthodox Priest is correct will you issue a correction and apology or will you join Mohamet in Hell? Reutors is your best most reliable source? Really? Why don,t you pull up their coverage of the cartoon exhibit and rely upon that?
Carl says
In God We Trust
Lioness says
So the Pope shows his true face, he is an islamic supporter who hates Israel and wants its destruction. We already know that he is a Marxist socialist and anti-semite. But this? What an evil idiot! He thinks he will score points with islam; what he doesn’t know is that they hate his guts and would gladly have him beheaded at the first opportunity.
Geppetto says
This article needs to be reviewed for accuracy. Read the following:
http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/analysis/j-e-dyer/main-stream-media-failure-pope-did-not-call-mahmoud-abbas-an-angel-of-peace/2015/05/17/
No global rebuke for Robert Spencer intended. Just another caution with regard to taking any main stream reportage of events, particularly with regard to anything related to Christianity, at face value, is to risk spreading their likely intentional distortion of the facts. Read the above for a different and likely more accurate perspective.
Screeminmeeme says
Robert, your comments are spot on. This whole ”dialogue” thing is rarely successful when dealing with bullies, but considering his leanings towards socialism, Pope Francis’ approach to Islam and its devilish aggression and violence toward Christians and Jews is to be expected.
One would expect, though, that since hes a Christian and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, hie would have greater discernment and sensitivity to the leading of that Spirit. I don’t recall anywhere in Scripture where the Christian is to negotiate with evil so its doubtful if God has much to do with the Pope’s acquiescence to deceptive Islamic tactics. Doing what a bully wants only means the bully is sure to win the last battle.
Scott says
When will the Pope and the rest of the world learn that , “Islam is a Religion of PIECES”…..most Jewish and Christian.
Scott says
Absolutely Orwellian……
Edward says
Being of a stoic personallity nature, at age 80, some things don’t fray me, but when hearing about the Pope Francis’ bestowing such an honor to Abbas by considering him an “angel of peace”, brought anger and depression at the same time…..enough to tear my eyes when reflecting about an injustice.
While Abbas was issuing a fatwa earlier this year….by ordering Israeli’s Arabs to use their vehicals to run down innocent Jewish pedestrains, the Israeli’s were ordering compasionate acts of mercy by attending to Arabs with professional medical needs free of charge. Something here is totally wrong!
There’s got to be an answer as to why Pope Francis is using his papacy in this manner.
Here are some scenerios that are needed to be looked at:
The Pope, who is highly educated in the field of psychology, might be using reverse psychology to acheive an end by hightening Abbas’ sub conscious quilt complex to win him over, which by submitting him into being a more repentant person.
Another factor that Pope Francis, et al, do consider is the fact that the Quran already invokes the name of Jesus and His Mother Mary many times, which can be the stepping stone for Muslim’s Christianity conversion. Pointing out again what Bishop Fulton J. Sheen (1895-1974) had expressed in his affirmed belief about this in his book ‘Mary and the Moslems’. “It is our firm belief that, the fears some entertain concerning the Moslems are not to be realized, but that Moslemism, instead, will eventually be converted to Christianity — and in a way that even some of our missionaries never suspect. It is our belief that this will happen not through the direct teaching of Christianity, but through a summoning of the Moslems to a veneration of the Mother of God. This is the line of argument…”
But yet again…..one has to remember that by the Muslim’s innate convictions of their use of their religions safety net (taqiya) we have to strongly consider the reason as to why Jesus’ and Mary’s names were included in the Quran during Mohammed’s time were actually for deceptive purposes. If this is the case Pope Francis et al has fallen for Satan’s trap; its shrewdness ploy. If this is so, we can think that definetly, that the Islamist’s are the evil one proxies! No man could alone concoct such a plan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_in_Islam
http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2009/fsheen_maryandislam__jun09.asp
The Pope may harboring anger towards the Jewish world for an unknown reason.
The Pope might be subjected to a spiritual interdiction….of which the Muslim’s has practiced for centuries.
http://blackmagicworld.com/black-magic-in-muslim-countries.html
Or we may have to accept the fact that the Pope is an avid Liberal….the Jesuit Order has been known favoring this Liberal code of Justice. If such is the case Pope Francis maybe the individual that he is the one that Jesus warned about, the wolf wearing a sheep skin living amongst the fold. Matthew 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.
Looking at the other side of the coin; Israeli Jews might be bringing this dilemma into their society……a self inflicted dilemma that is. Retribution perhaps.This could be because of the Jews not accepting the prophetized Missah’
The passage in Matthew 10:32-33 may stimulate us into thinking to this point of thought.
32 ‘So if anyone declares himself for me in the presence of human beings, I will declare myself for him in the presence of my Father in heaven.
33 But the one who disowns me in the presence of human beings, I will disown in the presence of my Father in heaven.
And again from the Holy Scripture this thought to ponder about in Leviticus 26 which offers knowledge as to why Divine Retribution is possible. BTW, It’s not my intent to cast judgement, but my interest here is that I don’t want to see the demise of Israel….if Israel dies Christianity is doomed……yes I know the bible tell us that the Church will always provail, but why should we let Israel suffer any more. For they are people of high compassion and it is our obligation and our interest to defend them against their enemies.
As for Leviticus 26 there are 46 verses in this chapter that are too lenghthy be noted here, but there are only 2 prominant points to understand to learn about what divine retribution is all about. These 2 points are: The Reward of Obedience and The Punishment of Disobedience. By the process of knowlege of these points one can deduce if the Jewish have lived a life of error for many millenniums. Lets pray that Israel can come to terms for their sake of surviabilty.
God, or Life, never sends disease, sickness, accident, or suffering. We bring these things on ourselves by our own negative destructive thinking based upon the law “as we sow, so shall we reap.” – Dr. Joseph Murphy (1898-1981)
FredvanH says
Thank god I wasn’t drinking anything when I heard him say that on television. I would have choked.
Andy says
This pope is a very sick man. He supports islam; he is exceptionally dangerous.
Thankfully this clown does not represent non-Catholics. Do you think Jesus would have called a murderer ”an angel”, or find nothing wrong with islam, or speak out about islam?
The pope is a sick and dirty old anti-Semite. Nothing has changed in that rancid institution.
duh_swami says
What is it that makes the ‘Holy Father’ Holy? And why should I believe one word of that?
Suburbanbanshee says
If you see any kind of story about “The Pope said this,” the first thing to do is to check the actual quote in Italian (or Spanish, or whatever language he was using). The Pope is misquoted and mis-paraphrased all the time.
A lot of well-paid “journalists” will literally just chuck an Italian statement into Google Translate, without checking for verb tense and gender, pronoun number and gender, alternate meanings of a word, etc. When they end up misquoting, they rarely bother to correct themselves.
There’s plenty of crazy coming out of the Curia already, without the media making up more!
Edward says
Being of a stoic personallity nature, at age 80, some things don’t fray me, but when hearing about the Pope Francis’ bestowing such an honor to Abbas by considering him an “angel of peace”, brought anger and depression at the same time…..enough to tear my eyes when reflecting about an injustice.
PLO’s Mahuoud Abbas government reconciled with Hama last year, then why did the terrotism continued? Ordering Israeli’s Arabs to use their vehicals to run down innocent Jewish pedestrains comes to mind. Is there any proof that Abbas has tried to stop these atrocities?
Mean while the Israeli’s were ordering compasionate acts of mercy by attending to Arabs with professional medical needs free of charge. Something here is totally wrong!
If these foolish enemies continue their distructive terrorism, who is going to mend the terrorist and the Arab civilians after the Israeli’s are gone?
BTW, since the two entities have allied does the PLO now have a terrorist division?
Edward says
There’s got to be an answer as to why Pope Francis is using his papacy in this manner.
Here are some scenerios that are needed to be looked at:
The Pope, who is highly educated in the field of psychology, might be using reverse psychology to acheive an end by hightening Abbas’ sub conscious quilt complex to win him over, which by submitting him into being a more repentant person.
Another factor that Pope Francis, et al, do consider is the fact that the Quran already invokes the name of Jesus and His Mother Mary many times, which can be the stepping stone for Muslim’s Christianity conversion. Pointing out again what Bishop Fulton J. Sheen (1895-1974) had expressed in his affirmed belief about this in his book ‘Mary and the Moslems’. “It is our firm belief that, the fears some entertain concerning the Moslems are not to be realized, but that Moslemism, instead, will eventually be converted to Christianity — and in a way that even some of our missionaries never suspect. It is our belief that this will happen not through the direct teaching of Christianity, but through a summoning of the Moslems to a veneration of the Mother of God. This is the line of argument…”
But yet again…..one has to remember that by the Muslim’s innate convictions of their use of their religions safety net (taqiya) we have to strongly consider the reason as to why Jesus’ and Mary’s names were included in the Quran during Mohammed’s time were actually for deceptive purposes. If this is the case Pope Francis et al has fallen for Satan’s trap; its shrewdness ploy. If this is so, we can think that definetly, that the Islamist’s are the evil one proxies! No man could alone concoct such a plan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_in_Islam
http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2009/fsheen_maryandislam__jun09.asp
Edward says
The Pope may harboring anger towards the Jewish world for an unknown reason.
The Pope might be subjected to a spiritual interdiction….of which the Muslim’s has practiced for centuries.
http://blackmagicworld.com/black-magic-in-muslim-countries.html
Or we may have to accept the fact that the Pope is an avid Liberal….the Jesuit Order has been known favoring this Liberal code of Justice. If such is the case Pope Francis maybe the individual that he is the one that Jesus warned about, the wolf wearing a sheep skin living amongst the fold. Matthew 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.
Edward says
Looking at the other side of the coin; Israeli Jews might be bringing this dilemma into their society……a self inflicted dilemma that is. Retribution perhaps. This could be because of the Jews not accepting the prophesized Messiah. Perhaps this maybe Pope Francis’ point of contention.
The passage in Matthew 10:32-33 may stimulate us into thinking to this point of thought.
32 ‘So if anyone declares himself for me in the presence of human beings, I will declare myself for him in the presence of my Father in heaven.
33 But the one who disowns me in the presence of human beings, I will disown in the presence of my Father in heaven.
And again from the Holy Scripture this thought to ponder about in Leviticus 26 which offers knowledge as to why Divine Retribution is possible. BTW, It’s not my intent to cast judgment, but my interest here is that I don’t want to see the demise of Israel….if Israel dies Christianity is doomed……yes I know the bible tell us that the Church will always prevail, but why should we let Israel suffer any more. For they are people of high compassion and it is our obligation and our interest to defend them against their enemies.
As for Leviticus 26 there are 46 verses in this chapter that are too lengthy to be noted here, but there are only 2 prominent points to understand to learn about what divine retribution is all about. These 2 points are: The Reward of Obedience and The Punishment of Disobedience. By the process of knowledge of these points one can deduce if the Jewish have lived a life of error for many millenniums. Lets pray that Israel can come to terms for their sake of survivability.
God, or Life, never sends disease, sickness, accident, or suffering. We bring these things on ourselves by our own negative destructive thinking based upon the law “as we sow, so shall we reap.” – Dr. Joseph Murphy (1898-1981)
jo says
http://shoebat.com/2014/09/25/muslims-take-christian-pastor-wife-daughter-hack-machete-still-living-bind-rope-burn-alive/
banan says
Why should this be conacted to the pope? whats the conection between the pope and christian lives ? no conaction
why should the pope care about christians killed all over the middle east and immigrating from there homes for fear of their lives – and raped and converted to islam ?
why should the pope support kurdistans freedom which is pro israel and protcects christians lives ?
why should the pope support israel whos christian population is the only one in the middle east who is rising – instead of declining ?
he rather support palstine – which we all know how well they treat their christians …. most striking is the bet leham example
Edward says
banan says, “why should the pope support israel whos christian population is the only one in the middle east who is rising – instead of declining ?”
banan, did you mean that the Christian faithful population is rising in numbers, or is in its productivity? …..not declining?
My opinion: Isreal has always been above all nations in the Middle East in industrial productivity and in medicine…..who has been very passionate in helping any medical ailing patient regardless of their color of their skin
and/or their religious affiliation.
Pope Francis would cherish the fact that Christianity is in its rise in Israel. If this is the present trend then it would mean that there is a big gain in “Jews for Christ” membership; which this phenomenon is now happening around the world, including membership growth in Russia! If the Jews are looking forward in receiving redemption from the Redeemer it would be a life changer for the Jews and for the entire world! It would mean that trials and tribulation would subsided. Please, read the NT’s Matthew10:32-33 to know as to why these periods of unrest has been caused, also read Leviticus 26 in in its entirely to know the Rewards of Obedience and the Punishment of Disobidence when our Lord, Jesus Christ is disowned by man!
BTW… banan, from what part of the world are you from….I’m interested to know!
Marlon says
I hope it was a miss quote.
Norman Moffatt says
The leader of the Catholic church, now thats the kind of leader they need.
Darth Evader says
Is the Islamic State Islamic?????
Is the Pope Catholic?
There was a time when the first question would have been unambiguously answered by this riposte …..
duh_swami says
Is it possible to be a decent human being without a god, and a lot of self serving priests/Imams to tell you how to do it?
Paleologos says
duh_swami,
I understand your point, but please don’t morally equivocate between priests and imams. 🙂
R/
Paleologos
Paleologos says
The Catholic Church has had good and bad popes.
My favorite of the recent popes will always be Benedict XVI, because he looked evil islam in the eye, and called it out for the evil that it is in his famous Regensburg speech.
http://w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg.html
I see the board is busy picking knits as to the exact words uttered by Francis.
To coin my German … das macht nichts! (That doesn’t matter!)
Francis is an idiot, and he is very dangerous.
Yeah, I’m Catholic, but I’m no dummy.
All potential popes should be forced to watch this video, and prove they “get it” before they actually become pope …
I am deeply saddened that many recent popes haven’t been dialed into the intrinsic evil of islam.
… For example …
John Paul II getting way too chummy with terrorist scum Arafat …
http://emperors-clothes.com/vatican/pressure.htm
I patiently wait for a new pope who is not Hell bent on leading the Catholic Church into the abyss, as Francis is trying to do.
Amen. 🙂
R/
Paleologos
Suburbanbanshee says
I’ve been trying to go to the main website, and it keeps getting redirected to a garden site called gogardens.org. Please fix soon!
wildjew says
A reader (JP) over at National Review, Ellen Charmichael’s piece, “Pope Francis Did Not Call Abbas an ‘Angel of Peace,” made the more important point:
“I never read Ellen Carmichael before. But, this non-story kind of never died over the week-end. I’m a Roman Catholic, and I was appalled that the Vatican formerly gave full diplomatic recognition to the Palestinian State. I keep reading that Pope Francis pushed for recognition in order to help protect Christian minorities in the Middle East. This doesn’t make sense, as if Hamas was given the chance they’d be no better than the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, which destroyed over 30 Coptic Churches in 2014. And we all know about ISIS. Why spit in the eyes of Israel?
Peggy says
Western Canadian says
May 18, 2015 at 2:21 pm
Peggy, there is no way to be polite with a congenital ass**** like you… TAKE YOUR IGNORANT HATE FILLED SLOP AND GET THE F*** OFF OF THIS PAGE, YOU STUPID HATE FILLED PIG!!!!!
———————————————–
Settle down.
I never mentioned Boston Marathon bombing and was only concerned about the issue of Catholic church and the jews.
There are many other sites which say the same thing about that.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Jasenovac.html
Maybe you don’t like that message either.
How about this one.
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005449
There are many more sites about this. Maybe you will see one that you won’t have a problem with.
I am only relaying what is out there so try to stop yourself from calling me hateful and all the rest. We are discussing Catholic church here and I was replying to someone regarding Jewish treatment at the hands of Catholic church. You decided to inject yourself into that coversation and started attacking me and accusing me of all sorts of things.
I challenge you to point to just one of my posts where I even imply that I like Muslims and have a problem with Jews or anyone else.
If you can’t produce any evidence of that sort, kindly hold back on venom.
Peggy says
gravenimage says
May 18, 2015 at 9:50 pm
Did Peggy really say that, Western Canadian? Do you have a link? Very disturbing, if this is the case.
===================
I have not said anything about Boston Maraton bombing. I have sent a link to Catholic Church’s dealings with Jews during WWII. Now he said that he found a link from that page about Boston bombing which I am not aware of.
I really don’t know anything about that link or article as I have never seen it. I certainly did not mean for any other link to be presented except the one dealing with the issue I stated.
Peggy says
Gravenimage, please go to the link I have provided and see that there was nothing on the Boston Bombing there. I have no idea what this fool is talking about.
The link is only a bit up from his post. Please see for yourself and don’t listen to him.
Western Canadian says
I did not say that you did refer to the boston marathon murders…. Period.
I HAVE pointed out that the site you do refer to, to try to bolster your claim that the Vatican CONDONED THE KILLING OF JEWS ETC…..
which in light of the pope of that time doing massive work to SAVE Jews is so sick it is criminal, is a site that is linked to every lunatic cause and conspiracy of the last century. It is a site that, by it’s own content and those it links to, which CANNOT be taken the least bit seriously. And neither can you.
Peggy says
Western Canadian, are you sure you are not Canadian Croatian. I think that’s why you are so angry and vile towards me.
What I produced is very much correct. Croatians and Croatian Catholic clergy did slaughter Serbs, Jews and Roma during WWII and the Vatican looked the other way and even helped the criminals escape to Argentina.
This is history and no amount of spewing about it will change it.
Jews know their own history too. Tell them I am lying.
Peggy says
I did not see any links to sites you refer.
Go and read your reply to me and tell me again that you did not intend for people to assume that I said some horrible things. One person actually asked you if I had.
STOP LYING ABOUT ME.
Western Canadian says
Then site a reference that doesn’t have RC bashing all over it, one that is in mainstream history books…. and your suggestion that the pope at the time, who risked his own life to protect Jews…. CONDONED the murder of them?? Yeah, right.
Western Canadian says
The site that you think is worthy of being used as a source, is a shabby, poor in every sense (including layout and design) joke, that sites no references, merely makes flat statements with no support. And it LINKS to sites that are its equal, in every insulting possible sense of the word. You should be MUCH more selective of who you believe, and who you claim backs you up.
Peggy says
Even if all you said is true do you think that you have the right to abuse me in the manner you di? Do you have the right to insinuate to others on more than one occasion (you posted the same garbage on another theead) that I somehow am a troll and have a hidden agenda?
What makes your right and me wrong? This is only your opinion and not necessarily shared by the wider world. So because we don’t share the same opnion do you think I should behave like you and abuse you and call you names and try to blacken your character here?
Think about it a little.
awake says
I am thankful that Francis was misquoted. I am appreciative that Robert provided this update. I am ever hopeful that this site never pits Jew versus Gentile, as allowable avenue of discourse. I am emphatic that wildjew finally purchased “The Myth of Hitler’s Pope”.
This is progress in my estimation.
That said, as a proud Catholic and devout follower of Christ, I still find Francis’ political comments quite alarming. He should stick to doctrine in my estimation.
Oliver says
ORIGINALLY, it was The New York Times that said that the pope called Abbas an angel of peace.
The pope gave him a medal of some sort-apparently given by (all recent) popes to heads of state” and other government officials. the medal is an ANGEL OF PEACE.
WHAT THE POPE DID SAY ( FROM A PROPER TRANSLATION- was to the effect, that Abbas should TRY to be an angel of peace. A LOT DIFFERENT THEN SAYING THAT HE IS AN ANGEL OF PEACE.
I have no use for the pope, but it is wrong to criticize him for someone else’s bad translation, of a lofty (if unrealistic) hope/desire/wish